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Date Posted:23/04/2007 12:19 AMCopy HTML

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Re:Why Would Anyone Leave Jesus or His Church?

Date Posted:23/04/2007 12:19 AMCopy HTML

When I was a wee little tacker in the RCI I remember talking to one of the older 'brothers' who told me a story about some lady and her encounter with the supernatural etc.  It was a forgetful story but what he said afterwards has stuck with me.  I asked him what happened to her and he said something like, "Oh she ran off after Billy Graham and denied tongues as being necessary."  At the time I thought, "How could anyone be so stupid?  How could anyone leave the RCI and say their doctrine is not true?"  We looked on people who left the Revival Centre as somehow 'less' than us.  Disobedient, lovers of sin, haters of God, lovers of false doctrine...at best deceived.  

 

Of course, almost all of us on this forum know exactly how that woman could have left.  After all, we discovered or uncovered information that we earlier had no knowledge of and this information forced us to reinterpret our experiences with the Revival Centre groups.  We then came to very different conclusions than we had earlier and thus left the group(s).   Perhaps it was some theological information, someone's testimony, some hypocrisy we saw first-hand, perhaps it was just something very, very wrong with the groups or leaders that came to our attention.

 

Being on the other side of the line between members and ex-members, we realized that those who left before us were not evil, haters of God or even deceived.  Rather, most who left before us had legitimate reasons for leaving the groups.

 

Yes, you know all this, so what's my point?

 

Well someone on the forum recently said something to me that has made me think and made me feel I need to have my say, to defend myself to some degree.  The original posts and context can be found here:

 

Someone named Lahad said,  

In my opinion Te Luo Yi is a closed case and all the debating, discussion and intellectual interaction will avail a mere nothing..

Te Luo Yi may say he doesn't believe in Jesus anymore but then that is a misnomer because Te Luo Yi could not have known Jesus in the first place. The Kingdom comes via revelation to the individual through the only means of repentance... How true is the statement and promise from Jesus " I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" and " we will come unto him, and make our abode with him " ... The truth is, God will accept you exactly as you are where you are without any shred of recommendation and meet with you right where you are and all it takes is your repentance that brings your willingness to submit to him. Then the process of sanctification by His capable hands can begin.

But without that revelation of Jesus, the issue of being called a christian is a non event. The Kingdom of God results in an ongoing interactive relationship which the Bible likens to sonship.

Then another poster, the (in)famous SOTT, said,

My perspective is that TLY has consciously chosen his path, he's drawn his line in the sand, and he's prepared to accept whatever the eternal consequences prove to be.

I truly don't meant to insult anyone, but the Christian mindset displayed here smacks a little too much of the old Revival Centre mindset.  You know the line, "Those who leave Christianity must be somehow flawed, or at best were never truly Christians."  But what if those who left are not flawed, not deceived?  What if those who left have more information, have seen something you haven't, have experienced something very real that has caused them to reevaluate the claims of the Christian faith?  What if those of us who have left Christianity altogether are, in fact, right?  Can you even begin to entertain that idea?  Can you dare to do what you did once as a Revivalist, reevaluate the entire belief system you subscribe to?  If you cannot even begin to allow yourself to do so, then I  would say that although you're out of the Revival Centres, you still think like you never left.

 

But let me put it another way.  Why would anyone leave the faith except for good reasons?  If there is truly an eternity in Hell waiting, why would anyone accept that as their eternal destiny?  If there is an eternity of Heavenly bliss, a God who answers prayer, provides for our every need, who loved us enough to sacrifice his son, dwells within our hearts, then why would anyone walk away from all that?  So they can sin?  Give me a break!!!  No sin would be worth an eternity in Hell and outside of Heaven.  If we 'Apostates' truly are convicted of God and the Christian message deep down in our souls, then we would have to be complete morons to walk away and accept our 'punishment'.  I'll say it again, to think that anyone can really believe the Christian message and then walk away is just ludicrous. 

 

So I put it to you, what if we are not Apostates at all but are people who have actually progressed further on the road to freedom from religious bondage and archaic religious indoctrinations?  What if we have found the information you lack to come to similar conclusions?  What if we have very real and valid intellectual, philosophical and, dare I say it, factual reasons why we are not Christians anymore?  Would you not be just like the Revivalists were you not to listen?  And if the Christian way of 'explaining' Apostates and their departure and denial of the faith is exactly like the RCI's way of explaining away their ex-members then what are you denying yourself by not listening to us?

 

Sure, maybe we ex-Christians are headed to Hell as you say, but imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try...

Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Why Would Anyone Leave Jesus or His Church?

Date Posted:23/04/2007 8:09 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Te Luo Yi

Te,

My comment: My perspective is that TLY has consciously chosen his path, he's drawn his line in the sand, and he's prepared to accept whatever the eternal consequences prove to be. was actually a rebuke of Lahad's presumption. It was also supportive of you and your right to choose your own path in life. My comment, above, implied that your decision was an informed one, and it is that which separates you from the common Revivalist herd.

But, of course, I disagree with the choice that you've made

Cheers,

Ian
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Why Would Anyone Leave Jesus or His Church?

Date Posted:23/04/2007 9:20 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

I am really pleased at the way our exchanges have developed of late.  I don't mean that to patronise you, and if I did  then I would have to patronise myself as well as it takes 2 to tango.    Perhaps both of us have mellowed with age?  Ot maybe you're just becoming a Lukewarm Liberal?

The line in my post, "I truly don't meant to insult anyone" was actually meant for you.  I didn't want to 'undo' all that we had seemed to have built of late.  I realised you were rebuking Lahad, but I guess I also wanted to point out that I feel my lack of belief will have no negative consequences...from where I stand.

Ciao

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