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Date Posted:19/05/2010 4:11 AMCopy HTML

This is where I shall move posts in this room that I feel* are off-topic.

* The decision of the moderator is final and further correspondence will not be entered into.

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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:18/05/2010 10:47 PMCopy HTML

Hi

If your really interested in getting an answer why don't you email Ian Thomason? His email is didaktikon@gmail.com

G
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:18/05/2010 11:46 PMCopy HTML

Reply to is_Aimoo_Guest

Hi

If your really interested in getting an answer why don't you email Ian Thomason? His email is didaktikon@gmail.com

G

I asked Ian to answer these verses in 2005 when I emailed him a different article that made similar claims. He declined to answer the challenge for his own reasons.

Last night I deleted the comments on here that were off topic as I am very passionate about a quality debate on this topic.

If you want to start a thread about how I am not willing to listen to the authorities of others, my lack of university training, etc, then do so in another thread.

Now back to the topic at hand please.

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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:19/05/2010 12:13 AMCopy HTML

Hi

I emailed Ian about what you said and he just got back to me. He said he can't remember you raising it with him and he would have enjoyed answering it because it's not difficult and he would have enjoyed demonstrating your lack of faith was based on ignorance.

G
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:19/05/2010 12:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to is_Aimoo_Guest

Hi

I emailed Ian about what you said and he just got back to me. He said he can't remember you raising it with him and he would have enjoyed answering it because it's not difficult and he would have enjoyed demonstrating your lack of faith was based on ignorance.

G

I'll have replied in the chatbox below. I would suggest any other comments and such not directly related to this topic may now also be posted down there. 
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 9:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Te Luo Yi

Here's the latest book causing a wee stir amongst the Atheist/Agnostic/ex-Christian scene:



I've only just started reading it so I can't really comment yet, but the stuff I read about Christian cultures (plural) was very good and I am sure a lot of post-Revivalists would relate to some of what was said in there too.

Below is a summary from an ex-Christian blogger:




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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 9:48 AMCopy HTML

To the firefighters who died, and left their loved ones, to save people they didn't even know... and weren't getting raised from the dead three days later. Whose lives and sacrifices we can prove existed.

111111
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 10:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest

As we used to say in high school, "Yeah, good comeback."  smiley3


How about you read the f***ing book and respond to it rather than just posting your religious propaganda?

I know all about what you have to say. Can you say the same about the contents of the book?

So who's the ignorant one then?




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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 11:51 AMCopy HTML

To the agnostic MothandRust,

"GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN TO LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR A FRIEND"

Jesus had a choice whether he should die or not. He willingly gave his life so that the very people that gave that "love" in your clip WOULD be resurrected in paradise.

self righteous mug.
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 12:12 PMCopy HTML

 He didn't 'give' his life... well, not for long anyway. He got it back (with credit) three days later.

Self righteous Christian :P
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 12:41 PMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust
 He didn't 'give' his life... well, not for long anyway. He got it back (with credit) three days later.
 

Yes, so with those that die in faith. Maybe not in three days but at an appointed time. That's "Christian faith"
 

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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 1:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest

To the agnostic MothandRust,

"GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN TO LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR A FRIEND"

Jesus had a choice whether he should die or not. He willingly gave his life so that the very people that gave that "love" in your clip WOULD be resurrected in paradise.

self righteous mug.


... as thought we don't have enough real heroes giving their lives in wars, fighting bush fires, surveying our beaches, standing and operating in a surgery for 12 hours straight.... so we make up an imaginary one...
dissappointing...
According to Revival churches these very people in the clip did not go to paradise as it is unlikely they belonged to the Revival churches.
If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 2:12 PMCopy HTML

worriedmum, I've often wondered about this myself.

So much is made of the myth of the 'sacrifice' that Jesus made for mankind.

Even the most devout Christian must admit that their 'Son of God' was never remotely at risk of losing his life, unlike the many, many selfless true heros that have made the ultimate sacrifice throughout all of recorded history.
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:02/07/2010 2:38 PMCopy HTML

Exactly!
He didn't give up his life. He's an Indian giver! and why should getting whipped and crucified 'save' everyone anyway. I just don't understand the logic of it and never have. A human sacrifice? When is that ever a good thing to appease the god/s and save everyone from going to a hell of their god's design? I'd get crucified myself if it meant 'saving' my own children, so how much more easier would it be if I knew I'd be up and running in three days time, AND it was going to save billions of people?

I know the 'faith' of this thing is important to millions of people, but I'd appreciate at least one of them to explain the logic of it all. And don't explain the logic of it by saying it doesn't 'have' to be logical, because that's just stupid, and nothing else but stupid.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:03/07/2010 12:01 AMCopy HTML

I have a brother who is like you and others who don’t believe in God. No matter how hard he tried it was for him to believe and he really wants to see, seemingly impossible. In my early days of Revival he attended a couple of meetings with me and made a concerted effort to “receive the Holy Ghost” aka Revivalist salvation, but to no avail. My brother seemed genuine in wanting to believe there is a God but said he was looking for a sign or some great “phenomenon” before he would be convinced. Of course seeking the truth going to a Revival meeting for proof is totally futile and very dangerous for a Christian as we are now aware of.

I can’t comment about “logic” you persistently on about as I’m not scholarly enough to discuss such matters, but what I do know from my experience walking away from Revival and being now a part of the orthodox Christian community, that one sees the hand of “the” God working.

Either one accepts God or wishes not to. It is all in believing. Both ways it is each others prerogative to choose. If one doesn’t believe first then one will never see.

“Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added”

 

I don’t think I am a “self righteous mug,” just a believer.   

 

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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:03/07/2010 2:42 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Anonymous believer

I don't think I'm a self righteous mug either. Well, I don't think I'm 'right', but maybe a mug.
I spent the first 16 years of life very much believing in god, without question, as a good Catholic boy, complete with alter boy robes. When I discovered Revival, I was completely convinced there was a god by 'Biblical Prophesy', Bible Numerics, and my 'amazing experience' :P of 'speaking in tongues'. So convinced of the Revival way that I agreed to be marriage at the age of 17.

I believed in god, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the whole kitten kaboodle, hook line and sinker. I became a houseleader, and gave regular talks. I witnessed door to door and on beaches and streets. I was studious and did the best I could to nut things out with a concordance and my trusty 'Franklins' digital pocket book KJV. I came to a point after 17 years that the tongues thing didn't add up. Reading the work of Ian, Drew and Troy helped fill in the blanks. 

Excitedly I discovered an amazing selection of churches that weren't stuck in the Revival rut, and I began my enthusiastic three year tour through all of them. I didn't go back to Catholicism because it would have truly bored me to tears. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off joining an orthodox church like yours, because the myriad of doctrines and beliefs I encountered were equally as nutty as Revivals. Instead of British Israelism there was Creationism. Instead of 'Seeking for spirit, tongue sessions' there was an elaborate 'falling over/slain in the spirit' prayer line. Instead of boring clap clap chorus sessions, there were overly long 'raise your arms and sing to the ceiling' sessions.

As I studied more, I found many concepts just simply didn't add up, and having faith in the illogical wasn't going to do for a god who was 'decent and in order'. The concept of Hell is ridiculous, the concept of a loving god letting an insane amount of suffering happen to the very innocent was just horrendous.

And the very core concept that a demigod had to be ripped, nailed, and temporarily sacrificed to save mankind from the 'sin' they were born into from a 'Hell' allowed to exist by the very same god who is supposed to be omni-omni just stopped making sense. And no one to my knowledge has provided a simple answer as to WHY the crucifixion 'saves' us, and from 'what' does it save us from.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:03/07/2010 5:11 AMCopy HTML

And no one has provided a simple answer as to WHY the crucifixion 'saves' us, and from 'what' does it save us from.

I don't really have a proper handle on it myself but I believe that it has to do with the fact that man alone, because of the "fall", could not solve the problem, it had to take a "divine process" to do it. It saves us from ourselves and from eternal condemnation. Just my thoughts.

Just for the record, I wasn't calling you a self righteous mug, that was what you called me then banned me from your chatbox.
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:03/07/2010 5:48 AMCopy HTML

 D'oh... of course. Sorry
It's tricky working out who's who behind the 'guest' accounts.

If it's a complete dick of a Christian wannabe with stupid answers it's Tony Barton.

If it's a standard Christian apologist, it's most likely yourself. 

Welcome back. I'm sure the c-box is good to go.

I'm definitely the mug. 


[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:03/07/2010 9:44 AMCopy HTML

Well... kinda feels like someone is watching over my shoulders whenever I type here. God?

Anyhoo Ralphy, deep down I'm still a Universalist, until something goes click inside. 'He who can't be named' used to throw some interesting appreciations our way, and I don't discard them, however fickle I am. The big sci-fi geek in me wants to believe that there is a huge supernatural struggle going on since the dawn of time, with our souls on the line, and that about 2000 years ago something incredible happened that restored balance to the galaxy. Anakin Skywalker stood up to the Empire and sacrificed himself using a 'force' beyond our mere mortals' comprehension.

Star Wars is a classic mythology, and draws from stories older than the bible. As far as I know the bible is just some good old fashioned Sci-Fi written a couple of millennia ago. Revivalism, British-Israelism and pyramidology and etc were definitely mythical fantasties from the mind of Lloyd Longjohns. There are so many fairytales preached as fact that it takes more than faith to believe them... sometimes it takes plain old stupidity.

I'm keepin' an eye on Christianity. I don't get the whole sacrifice thing... I don't see how turtle doves atoned form old Testament misdemeanors, and I certainly don't understand how Jesus' temporal death saved us (but only 'some' of us) from nasty hell fire,  I like Universalism. It makes sense to me. And I even like the preterism thing, if someone could answer some questions about it with some credibility.

Maybe if I wasn't so fickle I'd still be in Revival swinging my hand above my head while chorus leading Jehovah Jirah.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:04/07/2010 1:42 PMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust

I'm keepin' an eye on Christianity.

I suspect that I too will be keepin' an eye on it until the day I die. It was a part of my life for so long that I'll keep stalking it like an ex-girlfriend on Facebook.

I don't get the whole sacrifice thing... I don't see how turtle doves atoned form old Testament misdemeanors, and I certainly don't understand how Jesus' temporal death saved us (but only 'some' of us) from nasty hell fire, 

I believe the problem of not getting it is not really your problem because the whole thing is somewhat confusing. It's also because different interpretations of what the death of Christ accomplished are present in different NT books and different theologies have been in vogue throughout history.  Simple Gospel? Think again.

A good (and brief...thank the other gods) article on the major beliefs put forward can be found on the BBC Religion Website here
. It's from the BBC so you know you can trust it.  ;) Alister McGrath may assert that the 4 views presented are not exclusive of each other, but history has not shown that to be the thought of all Christians. I also think he's attempting to harmonise the different and exclusive views presented in the NT.

I like Universalism. It makes sense to me.

Well, it's a nice thought and if there is an afterlife then here's hoping it's a nice one!  ;P

I've replied to the rest of your post over in a
different thread
(see post 55#).

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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:05/07/2010 2:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Te Luo Yi

Reply to MothandRust

I'm keepin' an eye on Christianity.

I suspect that I too will be keepin' an eye on it until the day I die.  


Better this way than being a puppet in the hands of the rulers of RCI as in days of old.

Epi
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Re:Some random off topic posts that the moderator has moved

Date Posted:12/04/2015 8:53 AMCopy HTML

According to most Christian dogmas Jesus is God, and God is omniscient. He also repeatedly stated the only sign he was going to give was that of Jonah being swallowed by some magic whale/fish (for three days and nights.) In other words Jesus knew he wasn't going to stay dead.

Which is then makes it hardly some sacrifice: "I'm going to be killed, but three days later I'll get better and come back." Why the elaborate ruse anyway? If god is so powerful, why couldn't he simply forgive people without this whole Jesus gig?


RCI prophesies
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