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worriedmum
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Date Posted:22/08/2007 1:23 PMCopy HTML

My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible. I have questions for you.fficeffice" />?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comGod apparently created the Earth first, then the Sun. So what did the Earth spin around until he created the Sun? And where did the light come from, if there was not a sun? (Oh, sorry, I forgot, the earth was flat when God created it.) Then he created two great lights, the sun and the moon. God obviously knew, that the moon reflects the light of the sun, so, no sun, no function, so he created them at the same time.God blessed them (creatures) to multiply, but placed man and a woman in the Garden of Eden and did not give them this blessing. No, for the humans it was sort of a punishment, when they ate the fruit."And God said: let us make man in our image." So, what does he look like, Asian, white, or like an African pygmy? Does he have a penis? If he does, what for? If he does not, why not? It is in the Bible, that a man and God were alike. Was God an alien?God rested on the seventh day. He already knew, that it is a biological rhythm and followed the lunar calendar, which he created himself.God prohibited Adam to eat a fruit of knowledge,or for in the day that thou eates thereof though shalt surely die. However, Adam did not die in that DAY. So, why does God lies?Eve was created from a rib. God mastered cloning very well then.Cain, the first son of Adam, which woman did he marry? His sister, we don't know of? Sounds like incest.I am not asking about the flood. What size was Noh's Arch?Probably, enough.I am absolutely fascinated by this book. Or, rather, by its absurdity.If the Bible is God's words, why does he confuse us so much by this book?
If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:22/08/2007 7:51 PMCopy HTML

Hahahahahahaahaha!!!

E/V, and the ambiguity, contradictions and nonsense don't stop there.....

Deciphering the book has been a life-long study of thousands of folk, for thousands of years, and after it all, they all arrive at different conclusions on all sorts of matters.

I acknowledge there are some wonderful stories, lessons and messages contained in the book, but the absurdity of living life by it is plain as day for most. Yet, amazingly, they continue to paw at the pages and live as though it is the panacea for every woe, and source of all wisdom. The mind boggles!

Dog.

"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:22/08/2007 10:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible. I have questions for you.......

God apparently created the Earth first, then the Sun. So what did the Earth spin around until he created the Sun? And where did the light come from, if there was not a sun? (Oh, sorry, I forgot, the earth was flat when God created it.) Then he created two great lights, the sun and the moon. God obviously knew, that the moon reflects the light of the sun, so, no sun, no function, so he created them at the same time.

I don't think man can really give a positive answer to this, only speculate, what the mechanics of it all is, does it really matter? We shouldn't put limits on God. 

God blessed them (creatures) to multiply, but placed man and a woman in the Garden of Eden and did not give them this blessing. No, for the humans it was sort of a punishment, when they ate the fruit.

God did bless Adam and Eve by putting them in paradise, it was them who disobeyed God and lost that blessing. 

"And God said: let us make man in our image." So, what does he look like, Asian, white, or like an African pygmy? Does he have a penis? If he does, what for? If he does not, why not? It is in the Bible, that a man and God were alike. Was God an alien?

The word image in its grammatical context means; 'to become like or assimilation:'  i.e. to be (little)gods over the creation. Not so much as God looking like a human form

God is a Spirit, and believers, men and women, will be as the angels in the next life, we are told there will be no more relationships.     

God rested on the seventh day. ('Yom') He already new, that it is a biological rhythm and followed the lunar calendar, which he created himself.

 God did not invent the lunar calendar, man did. 

God prohibited Adam to eat a fruit of knowledge,  or for in the day that thou eates thereof though shalt surely die. However, Adam did not die in that DAY. So, why does God lies? 'DAY' mentioned here comes from the Hebrew 'Yom' meaning, era or period of time. God cannot lie. 

Eve was created from a rib. God mastered cloning very well then.

Well... OK, if it can be done, He would certainly be able to.

Cain, the first son of Adam, which woman did he marry? His sister, we don't know of? Sounds like incest.

There are various scriptures that indicate there must have been a pre-Adamic race of people created. (Example)When Cain was sent into exile we read he went to the land of Nod and built a city. (Need a lot of people to do that). Also note that man was created on the sixth day, and Adam was formed out of the dust, on the seventh day. If we believe archaeologists, there is evidence of humans living on earth 48 thousand years ago. Adam's history back 6000 years. 

I am not asking about the flood. What size was Noh's Arch?

Probably, enough.

Look at that story from the point of view of a local flood in the area, and domestic animals only, taken on board, it could be quite feasible. The dimensions are given.

I am absolutely fascinated by this book. Or, rather, by its absurdity.

If the Bible is God's words, why does he confuse us so much by this book?

It is not confusing to those who believe in God

OTR

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:23/08/2007 8:17 PMCopy HTML

 Reply to OTR

fficeffice" /> 

I don't think man can really give a positive answer to this, only speculate, what the mechanics of it all is, does it really matter? We shouldn't put limits on God. 

I think it does matter! I do not place limits on God, but on the Bible! If it is ?words of God', why did not he tell us, that we live on a planet? May be he did not know the laws of physics, if you know what I am talking about?

 

God did bless Adam and Eve by putting them in paradise, it was them who disobeyed God and lost that blessing. 

What sort of a blessing is that, if you can't have sex?!!! Gee! Do you, people want this life in Eden? No sex? No love? Just love to God? Man's paradise on Earth, is it?

 

The word image in its grammatical context means; 'to become like or assimilation:'  i.e. to be (little)gods over the creation. Not so much as God looking like a human form

God is a Spirit, and believers, men and women, will be as the angels in the next life, we are told there will be no more relationships.  

 

So, what you are saying, we should not take the words of the Bible literally but only in the context? Right?

 

 

 God did not invent the lunar calendar, man did. 

No, man did not invent the moon, according to Bible, God did. No moon, no calendar!

 

'DAY' mentioned here comes from the Hebrew 'Yom' meaning, era or period of time. God cannot lie. 

Sorry, I will have to disagree on the meaning of word Yom in Hebrew,  because linguistics is my hobby and this is my knowledge.  Some Creationists say that God's day is much longer than 24 hours. And probably it makes sense for God, but personally I think it is confusing for us, mortals, with normal way of logical thinking.

 

Eve was created from a rib. God mastered cloning very well then.

Well... OK, if it can be done, He would certainly be able to.

The whole idea actually reinforces a patriarchal society, approves that woman is a lower human being and should be subjected to man! So in relation to that, in what way do you, women, think Christianity is a better religion than say, Muslim religion and culture?

 

There are various scriptures that indicate there must have been a pre-Adamic race of people created. (Example)When Cain was sent into exile we read he went to the land of Nod and built a city. (Need a lot of people to do that). Also note that man was created on the sixth day, and Adam was formed out of the dust, on the seventh day. If we believe archaeologists, there is evidence of humans living on earth 48 thousand years ago. Adam's history back 6000 years. 

Ah, OK. So whom do you believe, the Bible or archaeologists? It gives us the following problems consequently.

!) Say, Adam and Eve were not the first man and woman? Bible does not tell us about who created people that Cain met. Someone had to create them, or you do think they evolved from Homo erectus?

2) How do you know when Adam was created? So God visited us 6000 years ago, according to you, the Bible, or archaeologists??

3) Say, if there was a pre-adamic race. Did that pre-Adamic race also have to suffer for Adam and Eve's sin, as they mixed with Adam and Eve's children? Did their descendants have to suffer for Adam's sin? Does it sound fair to you? Do you believe that God is just? If he is, why punish those people who had nothing to do with Adam's eating the fruit of knowledge? Or, do we not question God's authority and he does as he pleases? Well, at least he could give us some clear guidelines first.

4) I recommend you reading the Bible (2:2), as it says on the seventh day God rested! (That is why we don't work on Sundays and Jews don't work on Saturday.) On the sixth day God actually created man and woman and blessed them to multiply (1:28)! The story of Adam and Eve is a completely separate story in more detail about first man and woman.  It says Man had called the woman Eve, after they were thrown out of Eden. The Bible story only is interpreted as thought Adam and Eve were the first man and woman! These two stories do not match!

 

Do you follow me? Or you still think you are not confused?
If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:23/08/2007 9:08 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Reply to OTR?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />I don't think man can really give a positive answer to this, only speculate, what the mechanics of it all is, does it really matter? We shouldn't put limits on God.
Give up OTR, this discussion is a losing battle. Some people are locked in so tight with their thoughts that no matter how you try to explain, they just cannot see the simplicity. The point is that people need to know that God is omnipotent and he knows best, and he certainly does not have the attributes, thoughts and actions of sinful natural vain man.
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:23/08/2007 10:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to escaped

The point is that people need to know that God is omnipotent and he knows best, and he certainly does not have the attributes, thoughts and actions of sinful natural vain man.

Well, basically, this is all you can say, because you like to believe everything you are told , not think with your head.

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:23/08/2007 10:40 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : escaped



Reply to : worriedmumReply to OTR?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />I don't think man can really give a positive answer to this, only speculate, what the mechanics of it all is, does it really matter? We shouldn't put limits on God.Give up OTR, this discussion is a losing battle. Some people are locked in so tight with their thoughts that no matter how you try to explain, they just cannot see the simplicity. The point is that people need to know that God is omnipotent and he knows best, and he certainly does not have the attributes, thoughts and actionsof sinful natural vain man.





Hey escaped lion,

Your comments there suck, dude! Pretty damn patronising for starters. There are heaps of bible believers that fit your description 'locked in tight with their thoughts......' They are predominantly the ones who are rigidly holding onto irrational beliefs, and 'cannot see' the absurdity! Those who (reasonably) ask questions about the validity, consistency or reality of bible stories are using the brain they were given. Questioning is a most noble and healthy use of our grey matter.

I reject your 'people need' nonsense, with your attempt to belittle our intellectual reasoning, and suggestion that we should reduce ourselves to morons. Oh, I'm so sinful! Should I start the self-flaggellation now?

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 12:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : escaped

Reply to : worriedmumReply to OTR?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />I don't think man can really give a positive answer to this, only speculate, what the mechanics of it all is, does it really matter? We shouldn't put limits on God.Give up OTR, this discussion is a losing battle. Some people are locked in so tight with their thoughts that no matter how you try to explain, they just cannot see the simplicity. The point is that people need to know that God is omnipotent and he knows best, and he certainly does not have the attributes, thoughts and actionsof sinful natural vain man.

That's OK escaped,  There are believers and there are non believers. If someone was to come back from the dead to tell them, they still wouldn't believe. As a matter of fact, one has, JESUS.

To worriedmum:

You came on this forum asking what you can do about your son in the RF group, but it appears you already had a different motive for being here. It seems to me now that you want everyone here to accept your point of view about things that are negative to the Word of God. I don't think you will find the answers you want to hear.

I thought this forum was to expose the abuse and false doctrine of the Hollins, Longfield dynasties, not to question God. If you are serious, read the Bible yourself and really see what it is telling you.

OTR.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 9:50 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : dogmafree

Hey escaped lion,Your comments there suck, dude!
To each his own,  "DOG!"
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 10:47 AMCopy HTML

I thought this forum was to expose the abuse and false doctrine of the Hollins, Longfield dynasties, not to question God. If you are serious, read the Bible yourself and really see what it is telling you.

Yes that's what this forum is for, but not limited to. Eveything should be questioned when you've spent far too much of your life sucked into the lie that you should read the Bible and take it all literally as what the creator is supposed to be telling you. That road leads to mindless cretinism; gibberish speaking; hating of people who believe of live differently; slavery; genocide; mind control and destruction of identity, amongst so very very much crapola.

http://media.damnfunnypictures.com/dfp/ChristianityExplained001.jpg

The Bible says the Earth is flat round and the earth was created before the Sun - Wrong. I'm sorry bible, but you've failed to match up with what we can now work out with a telescope. Maybe in Bible version 2.0 we can fix that up.

Eating naughty fruit cursed all women with a tight vagina that would hurt like hell when a baby is passed through it - yeah right. I know of women who have had babies with very little to no pain. Did they escape the curse? Will God get them? The curse also caused man to have to work for their food, but I know of many rich playboy types who don't do jackshit!... and all snakes lost their legs from the curse too - lizards on the other hand were able to keep theirs.

God said "let's make man in our own image', fully knowing that we'd interpret that as being we look pink or brown and hairy like him.

God rested on the seventh day - Why the fuck does an omnipotent being need to rest for a full 'YOM'. How long was the resting Yom 'Day'?

God took a rib from Adam's ribcage? Would Adam not need that particular rib? Did god put too many unnecessary ribs in there? Did Adam have trouble running with an out of whack skeletal system? Couldn't he have cloned Eve with a hair or something?

God, the racist wanted Adam's family to procreate with each other to further the lineage. He didn't want them mixing with the other godless pre-adamics. Wonder which night they hooked the kids up for that? Hey it's Friday night! Meatloaf and family sex night.

Noah's ark was a story put into the bible to set up the scene that God follows through on his threats to genocide our asses if we don't fall into line.

No relationships in heaven? So much for the whole bride-groom coming for his bride analogy. Looks like we're gonna be getting a divorce quicksmart and forced to sing to the egotistical God for all eternity... all with a forced smile lest we be smitten with painful childbirth again.

The bible isn't confusing to those who believe it in much the same way Aboriginals aren't confused by Dreamtime mythology. Plus it's easy to spin this ancient ramble to fit your beliefs with circular reasoning.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 12:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to OTR.

You understood me almost right. I have great concerns for the physical and psychological wellbeing of my son. I am here learning about how he has been brainwashed, learning about the Bible, learning YOUR language.

you want everyone here to accept your point of view about things that are negative to the Word of God. 

I am just asking you questions!You are having trouble unswering my questions, you don't know the answers. It looks to me that you are annoyed by my questioning and want me to accept the dogma without actually understanding.Your answer is "Have faith and you'l be saved" However, in my life I have been taught to think logically and critically and look for answers before accepting it as a fact, so I could have faith in it, especially something so great as Jesus Christ. Did I make you to accept anything negative to the word of God? Please explain what it was. What is so negative in my questions?

 

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 3:46 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Reply to OTR.You understood me almost right. I have great concerns for the physical and psychological wellbeingof my son. I am here learning about how he has been brainwashed, learning about the Bible, learning YOUR language.you want everyone here to accept your point of view about things that are negative to the Word of God.I am just asking you questions!You are having trouble unswering my questions, you don't know the answers.It looks to me that you are annoyed by my questioning and want me to accept the dogma without actually understanding.Your answer is "Have faith and you'l be saved" However, in my life I have been taught to think logically and critically and look for answers before accepting it as a fact, so I could have faith in it, es  am just asking you questions!You are having trouble unswering my questions, you don't know the answers. It looks to me that you are annoyed by my questioning and want me to accept the dogma without actually understanding.Your answer is "Have faith and you'l be saved" However, in my life I have been taught to think logically and critically and look for answers before accepting it as a fact, so I could have faith in it, especially something so great as Jesus Christ. Did I make you to accept anything negative to the word of God? Please explain what it was. What is so negative in my questions?

 

 

No, I don't claim to know all the answers, and I apologise if you thought I was trying to push on you my point of view. I am over "getting annoyed" by any one elses 'point of view', it is just that I commented on the way you are percieving things and to how I see things from the bible.  I have done a little theology (Greek and Hebrew) into what the Author/authors are telling us, and find what you are saying (thinking) is only philosophical and not Biblical fact.

Have faith and be saved? Did I say that? No, either you believe that Jesus (Son of God) is the one who was crucified and died, and paid the ransom,  that we could not pay for our fall, then rose again and is alive now, or not  believe. Your choice.

As a qualified mechanic, people may often ask me what can cause their car to misfire or playup at times. After giving my "expert" opinion, they say, no it is not that etc.,  I then wonder why in the world did they ask me in the first place. You did the similar thing with your questioning. If you have already made up your mind what things are, so be it.

I have found It is less confusing  just to believe and walk in that belief. Seems to work for me anyhow.

OTR.

 

PS. I do have concerns for your son, for when it comes to what to believe as a Christian he is in a place that teaches things contrary to what the Bible is telling us. That is why my suggestion in another post is to know for yourself what the truth of gospel is according to the New Testament. Leave the phylosophy of old testament. it can be confusing.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:24/08/2007 4:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : OTR

No, either you believe that Jesus (Son of God) is the one who was crucified and died, and paid the ransom,  that we could not pay for our fall, then rose again and is alive now, or not  believe. Your choice.

Nope, there's plenty more choices than the ones you offer here and there's many flavours and shades of grey between them. Millions of people in the world sincerely do not believe in a Christian God, some follow other gods, some none at all, some are unsure about gods. In relation to the Christian God's existence and His child-sacrifice plan we could throw three options into the mix (leaving aside agnosticism):

1) God exists, but doesn't make his existence indisputable to us.
2) God exists, but we're subject to forces he can't overcome, such as ignorance, scepticism, confusion and doubt.
3) God doesn't exist and is rather a fabrication of our imagination.

You might respond to this by saying that if he ensured we all knew of his existence he would be compromising our free-will. However free-will is not so much about knowing if God exists but about our decision to follow (or reject) any supposed 'plans' for us - how less so are we able to make that free-will choice to accept if he doesn't make his existance obvious.


I have found It is less confusing  just to believe and walk in that belief. Seems to work for me anyhow.
Yep and it's such a mindset that keeps people steadfastly in their cults and Revival church halls. We don't want to go confusing anyone with other ideas and reasonings. May as well write up yourself a separation policy.
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:25/08/2007 7:02 PMCopy HTML

To OTR

There are even more options. I do believe Jesus Christ existed and he was a great teacher, he was crucified and suffered for humanity. It is a great legend to be just a legend! I believe he was human like us, not God, not son of God. He probably was a bit crazy, as he believed he was son of God. If you ask me why, because the only evidence, apart from the Bible, tells us he was human and Mary Magdalene was his wife. Archaeologists apparently even found the tomb with Jesus family's remains. I don't believe he rose from the dead, because I don't believe in miracles and supernatural. Why don't you believe in aliens? There are so many witnesses. Is it because alien's story does not provide a good incentive for you?

fficeffice" />

So you agree it can be confusing. I am sure God wanted us to be confused, if there is God. If there is God he would want us to have a choice, as we have so many religions on Earth. If there is a God, there is one only, not many. How dare those pastors to say that only they teach the Gospel right, only their religion is right, everyone else is wrong. Every church is fighting for your faith, to have a power over your mind. Religion is about power and control, not faith.

To everyone

Imagine, God answers your prayers and chooses you to be the next messiah. He tells you to tell people about his next coming and how to prepare for it. What do you think you will do? Just hypothetically.

 

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:25/08/2007 8:46 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

To OTRThere are even more options. I do believe Jesus Christ existed and he was a great teacher, he was crucified and suffered for humanity. It is a great legend to be just a legend! I believe he was human like us, not God, not son of God. He probably was a bit crazy, as he believed he was son of God. If you ask me why, because the only evidence, apart from the Bible, tells us he was human and Mary Magdalene was his wife. Archaeologists apparently even found the tomb with Jesus family's remains. I don't believe he rose from the dead, because I don't believe in miracles and supernatural. Why don't you believ

Yeh, WHATEVER!!!! 

Honestly worriedmum, I don't think you are worried about your son at all, it is just that you don't like anyone professing something that is contrary to what you believe. You say you are against the "dogma" that he presents, well have a look at what you are really on about. You seem to portay a belief system that is more dogmatic than anything I have read on this forum. I'm sorry, but something doesn't add up with what I thought was your motive for writing here in the first place. At least if it is about your son's situation, then I still say, it would be to your benefit if you at least have a listen to what he is about. I'm sure his main concern is for your salvation, be it right or wrong. Have you ever considered that there is a Holy Spirit available to anyone who asks and in receiving, (I don't mean the Revivalist tongues thing) the experience alone is evidence that there was/is a Jesus as the Bible shows.

OTR.

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:26/08/2007 12:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : OTR

the experience alone is evidence that there was/is a Jesus as the Bible shows.

What experience? Speaking gibberish? That's the evidence?

Gee, miracles have really downgraded from the old testament haven't they? Parting seas, pillars of fire... now the best evidence of god's presence is being able to make unintelligible sounds? Think on that for more than 12 seconds and you might work something out. Speaking incoherently is NOT a miracle. It's as much of a miracle as scribbling on paper is.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:26/08/2007 1:49 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Reply to : OTRthe experience alone is evidence that there was/is a Jesus as the Bible shows.What experience? Speaking gibberish? That's the evidence?Gee, miracles have really downgraded from the old testament haven't they? Parting seas, pillars of fire... now the best evidence of god's presence is being able to make unintelligible sounds? Think on that formore than 12 seconds and you might work something out. Speaking incoherently is NOT a miracle. It's as much of a miracle as scribbling on paper is.

Now Moth, You know we have been down this track 'eons of time on this forum. If you read my post, see what I put in brackets. I wasn't referring to tongues for evidence that the Holy Spirit is in ones life. Don't you get fedup going down the same track time and time again? I know I do. Why does one have to have an outward sign to need confirmation of Gods presence? It is a personal relationship within the heart thats evident, not all the cock and bull that mans philosophy can muster up, both sides of the fence. Either one believes in God or they don't. Call it blind faith if you must. I know it works for me.

OTR.

 

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:26/08/2007 5:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : OTR

Now Moth, You know we have been down this track 'eons of time on this forum.

And eons more I'm sure. I'm not even sure who you are. Ralph Brolga?

 If you read my post, see what I put in brackets. I wasn't referring to tongues for evidence that the Holy Spirit is in ones life. (I don't mean the Revivalist tongues thing) the experience alone is evidence that there was/is a Jesus as the Bible shows.

So what experience alone do you think is evidence alone that there was and is a bible Jesus?

Don't you get fedup going down the same track time and time again? I know I do.

Nah, I don't get fed up going down the same track every time and time again. Come what may I say... even if it's a track well worn.

Why does one have to have an outward sign to need confirmation of Gods presence? It is a personal relationship within the heart thats evident, not all the cock and bull that mans philosophy can muster up, both sides of the fence. Either one believes in God or they don't. Call it blind faith if you must. I know it works for me.

The Revivalists hate the idea of a mushy 'feel good' feeling rather than a 'manifestation' of what they consider to be tangible. Anyone can present what may be construed as a relationship with what they consider god to be. And no, you're not addressing the shades of grey I alluded to between belief and disbelief. I think there may be life on another planet somewhere in this universe but I couldn't say I believed or disbelieved 'absolutely'... the same goes for god.

Blind faith can put one in a ditch.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:26/08/2007 11:29 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Reply to : OTRNow...........I'm not even sure who you are. Ralph Brolga?If you read my post, see what I put in brackets. I wasn't referring to tongues for evidence that the Holy Spirit is in ones life.(I don't mean the Revivalist tongues thing)the experience alone is evidence that there was/is a Jesus as the Bible shows.So what experience alone do you think is evidence alone that there was and is a bible Jesus?Don't you get fedup going down the same track time and time again? I know I do.Nah, I don't get fed up going down the same track every time and tim .............The Revivalists hate the idea of a mushy 'feel good' feeling rather than a 'manifestation' of what they consider to be tangible...........................Blind faith can put one in a ditch.

Yep, but if I come on again will be back to brolga. Scary hey?

Revivalists don't feel anything, brain dead.

 I guess I am philosophical when it comes to believing in God even though I tend to lean toward Sott1 version more than anything.  He seems to simplify things and makes it easy to understand.  To me, having the Holy Spirit in ones life is not something felt, but that we don't have to question the things of God and to be at peace within. Sounds a bit corny to you I suppose, but I found early in life the greatest thing that man can have, is peace of mind. So simple, but so hard to achieve. We might strive and obtain all material things that the world can offer, but at the end of the day, what have we really got. Most that I know who have riches are not really happy and I'm yet to find someone really content with what they have. It seems the thing that man lives and strives for, he already had before he started out, i.e. peace of mind. The time comes he might realise it, too late, he gets sick and can't enjoy it, or he dies. Seen it happen all too often.

Me, I haven't fallen into a ditch yet.

OTR.

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 1:00 PMCopy HTML

Sounds like, OTR, the only evidence that you have for Jesus/God existence is that your faith gives you a piece of mind. Oops.. I meant a

Peace of mind.fficeffice" />

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 1:34 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Sounds like, OTR, the only evidence that you have for Jesus/God existence is that your faith gives you a piece of mind. Oops.. I meant aPeace of mind.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Worried mum, its seems my first expressions of distrust when you came on this forum is starting to prove itself. you r son may or may not be caught up in the revers, however you have moved onto what I would consider a very low form of wit ie piece of mind opps peace of mind derogortory comment, of which what is totally unnessersary.

Re your views of God/christianity  your are welcome to express then here, but to fall to the above comment is really quite unfortunate

earth5

 

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 8:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Sounds like, OTR, the only evidence that you have for Jesus/God existence is that your faith gives you a piece of mind. Oops.. I meant aPeace of mind.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Yes your right worriedmum, at least  I am not completely out of mine, yet.

Anyhow, no more nit picking from me. Hope you have a good journey.

OTR

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 8:29 PMCopy HTML

Dear earth5. fficeffice" />

I wish your suspicions to other people's motivation extended to your church pastors.

Yes, my son is sucked into RF, and I don't like it. I am very protective of him as he is still immature and is being brainwashed. I am learning more about you, deeply religious people. You, being defensive about my remarks definitely not helping me at all. However, I am not going to make it comfortable for you. My presence here will not be pleasant for you simply because I hold views to life opposite to yours. I will expose incapacity of your faith.

OK, I better shut up right here before you get upset again.

 

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 9:42 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Dear earth5.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />I wish your suspicions to other people's motivation extended to your church pastors.Yes, my son is sucked into RF, and I don't like it. I am very protective of him as he is still immature and is being brainwashed. I am learning more about you, deeply religious people. You, being defensive about my remarks definitely not helping me at all.However, I am not going to make it comfortable for you. My presence here will not be pleasant for you simpl

Worriedmum,

Would you ever have it enter your mind that Earth5 is NOT upset from what you say, but from a true Christian point of view he is more concerned, from the heart, for you and your son to know and except the truth of God's word?  Perhaps not, it is from the Holy Spirit the heart is made soft.

OTR

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:27/08/2007 10:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Dear earth5.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />I wish your suspicions to other people's motivation extended to your church pastors.Yes, my son is sucked into RF, and I don't like it. I am very protective of him as he is still immature and is being brainwashed. I am learning more about you, deeply religious people. You, being defensive about my remarks definitely not helping me at all.However, I am not going to make it comfortable for you. My presence here will not be pleasant for you simpl

w/m. as said you are entitled to your opinions, belief sets as I am to mine and are more than welcome to share them on this forum, my comment was more to do with you snide comments to otr, that is all nothing more nothing less. so am i upset? na !

And after 35 plus years of rci/rcf, i am very cautious of other church leaders and where there are comming from and what they are saying.

I think that after you have been in the revers for any period of time you tend to have an inbuilt rader of is this a cult? are they to controliing etc etc, not just churches but any group of people, take amway for instance???

My faith is not up to you to "expose" as it is MY faith and faith is just that Faith. sosay what you like, some of it may give me thoughts to ponder /consider and I welcome that, just wont always agree with you as you want with me or others on this forum or in fact life, diversity is what makes us all tick.

earth5

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:28/08/2007 9:26 AMCopy HTML

Well, I am glad, OTR, at least you have not lost your sense of humor.

Religion - so much for humanity to keep it sane!

How do you know, guys, that you have faith in the right God? What if it is Allah or Buddist god? Hindu, Jewish, whatever?

Diversity plus fanatism equals disaster.

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:28/08/2007 10:21 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Well, I am glad, OTR, at least you have not lost your sense of humor.Religion - so much for humanity to keep it sane!How do you know, guys, that you have faith in the right God? What if it is Allah or Buddist god? Hindu, Jewish, whatever?Diversity plus fanatism equals disaster.

Just sticking to the "instruction manual" (NT part of Bible) as I see it, my dear.

OTR

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:28/08/2007 5:59 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum


Well, I am glad, OTR, at least you have not lost your sense of humor.Religion - so much for humanity to keep it sane!How do you know, guys, that you have faith in the right God? What if it is Allah or Buddist god? Hindu, Jewish, whatever?Diversity plus fanatism equals disaster.

I have to say WM, you're scratching and biting at the wrong end of the stick in what seems to be some therapeutic venting. Attacking Christianity may have been a hobby of mine but for the newbie you'd do much better understanding the differences between rational religion and Revivalist ramblings. Comparitively, your son would do well to join their ranks rather than where he is now in the cult-to-church continuum, and it would be the next best and most appropriate step for him to take. He's never going to take a step from Revivalism to Atheism/agnosticism.

The people of Mainstream Christianity (where most of the ex-Revivalist Christians sit) that you are throwing the gauntlet down to concerning faith and belief are not the bad guys here... relatively speaking.

In the broad spectrum of Christianity there are some attributes I find deplorable and downright offensive:

  1. Their gay hate
  2. judgemental attitudes
  3. disdain for logic and reason (version thereof)
  4. Closed/narrow mindedness
  5. Family separation and sacrifice
  6. saint/sinner labelling
  7. sexual repression
  8. skewed morality motivation
  9. 'bloodlust' for a world war they almost hope to come

The thing is, although these traits are annoying, they aren't completely dangerous and skull-numbing as the Christian 'cult' we came from. The Revival cult had all these nine elements but amplified them. Not only are christians separate from 'worldlies' but they aren't even christian unless they go through the whole water immersion and tongue speaking rituals. Not only is sex repressed but it is punished by the strawman punishment of excommunication. Not only are they closed minded but they won't even allow literature from other churches to be read by their members. Not only are their morals and ethics followed to appease the anger of a jealous and petty god, but they would have all issues scrutinised by oversight and brethren.

So, even though I have taken enjoyment at poking at the Christians, I find them easy targets and fun to provoke, but ultimately, I don't find their beliefs as repulsive as the sects they could be. Their arguments can be easily refuted but getting them to ever admit to a flaw in their idealogy results in the circular reasoning similar to the picture I displayed earlier in this thread.

Yeah, I get that you want to throw it in the teeth of all the religious believers because it's such beliefs that result in such cults and traps as the Revivals, JWs, Mormons, SDAs,... actually yeah.... what am I saying? Do continue to question them... but what I think I started to say is that these guys have a religious mindset far more safer than the Revivalist one.


Would you ever have it enter your mind that Earth5 is NOT upset from what you say, but from a true Christian point of view he is more concerned, from the heart, for you and your son to know and except the truth of God's word? Perhaps not, it is from the Holy Spirit the heart is made soft.

Oh please. The main reasons christians feel a need to see other people converted is to appeas their own insecurities. Maybe they also believe in the mythological concept of Hell enough to make all sorts of dough-eyed pleas to accept their god and his mastery in their life in the hope that they'll avoid the terrible place he'll send them to if they don't. pfft

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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:29/08/2007 12:28 PMCopy HTML

To MothandRust

thanks

your advice is much appreciated

Also I sent you a private msg

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
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Re:My search of God always stumbled in the first chapter of the Bible.

Date Posted:01/09/2007 1:16 PMCopy HTML

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1EFuPPOM38
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
RCI prophesies
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