That's correct, but one questions whether such has come from darkness to light or from darkness to remaining in darkness.  Luke has clearly demonstrated he is still ignorant of scripture.


That is between him and god. We cannot even pretend to know his heart, or where he stands with god. Having a "correct" knowledge of scripture does not make one a christian.

No I am not going anywhere. I am just very busy with work as well as fellowship commitments.

The difficulty with spending too much time trying to speak some sense to moth of you on this site is that almost all of the regulars on this site have a history of conflict in one form or another which impedes your collective ability to make fair and rational deliberations of my posts.

It is almost like whenever the Government makes an announcement the opposition merely takes the opposite point of view for the sake of not appearing to agree.

One of the primary difficulties that the Pharisees had with Jesus was that often his words were mixed with parables, types and symbols. Peter also noted that his writings were at times very difficult to understand.

2Pe 3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. 2Pe 3:18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.  

Please note that when Peter wrote that this. He wrote to and about people who were members of the church, as we all are. So we do need at times to take care not to make the mistake of pretending that we have ALL the answers and subsequently wrestling with the scriptures to our own detriment.

We must always remember Proverbs 25:2 which says…Pro 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Conclusion: Many of my coments have been misunderstood because they are spiritually discerned not rationally examined.

Another reason why I have visibly backed off trying to correct all of you guys is that at any given moment over recent weeks I had several simultaneous questions/challenges being directed at me. The questions were reasonable ones to ask. However! when accompanied with half a dozen others, led to a lot of confusion on both sides of the fence.

This process was very frustrating for all concerned and led to many misunderstandings.

My sincere desire is to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This led me to consider the scriptures and seek God for the wise choice, if not the logical one.

In 72AD when the Romans encircled Jerusalem there were several factions inside the Holy City (a type of the Church) who were fighting with each other for control.

It wasn’t until the Romans attacked that they actually stopped fighting among themselves.

This is a valuable lesson about human nature and this is what is occurring here. Just for the sake of argument pretend for a moment that what I have said is exactly right. The setting is so hostile that and balanced examination of the arguments cannot be conducted in a deliberate and meditative way. There is just too much background noise.

I am going to finish be taking poetic licence with  Romans 10:1-13 (my words in Red)

Rom 10:1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for (You people on this site) Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. (A spiritual knowledge that derives from God and NOT our own intellectual manufacturing of truth based on what we are willing to accept)  Rom 10:3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, (based on works) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:4  For Christ (The finished work of Jesus on the Cross – including the infilling of the Holy Ghost and Speaking in tongues as evidence) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Signs follow believers)

Rom 10:5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:6  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Rom 10:7  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess (Say the same as ) with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Signs follow believers)

Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:11  For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: (You and I) for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I hope that you all can find your way back into a place where you are walking in the Spirit and leading overcoming live in the fellowship of your choice. I do feel that Ian is a wolf in sheep’s clothing preying on wounded and vulnerable sheep. As the scriptures and nature tells us is the case. (He is not the only one).

Jesus is coming back and I simply cannot justify wasting valuable time arguing with people. As such I will move on and do the first works and stop preaching to the converted.

May God Bless all of you; for whom Christ died.

Jesus loves  you and so do I.

Luke 7:35

Good morning, Talmid.

Be sure to post when you get that promised evaluation by koine Greek experts of "the large Acts essay".  (I'm being patient but curious as to whether anything will eventuate.) Be sure to let us know what their level of expertise is. I'd forgotten all about that! Tony's promise to "disprove" my Greek exegeses!

Don't hold your breath, bro'.

Blessings,

Ian

Hi All: FYI…I have recently received an email from Ian Thomason regarding my “Critical Examination of Ian Thomason's Conclusions on his “Revivalist dogma and the book of Acts (An exegetical and theological evaluation)”

In the email Ian said;….I've just visited your "The Former Revivalist Discussion Forum", and noticed that you have copied, in full, several of my essays. You did not seek permission from me to do this; consequently, you have breached my copyright. I am directing you to remove any and all of my work from said site, immediately.    Ian

Now I do realise that Ian believes that he is never wrong about anything, anywhere, anytime. I also realise that he, being the wolf in sheep’s clothing, Pharisee that he is simply cannot handle his conclusions being challenged or rather exposed. So his resorting to this method of threatening legal action for daring to disagree with his conclusions is of no surprise to me.

Frankly I’m more surprised he didn’t threaten me this way even sooner than he has. I can only surmise that he saw an opportunity to grab some limelight while it was there to be grabbed. I did remove the evaluation from my forum for several reasons.

They are as follows:

1.       As stated earlier I have sent a Word version of Ian’s work to friends in the US to critique Ian’s essay and I will re-introduce the evaluations once I get them back.

2.       I think that my forum should be more about former members and their recovery than focusing on the Luke warm ideals of a Baptist Theologian/Pharisee like Ian Thomason.

3.       I have much more important work to do establishing a work for Jesus in my corner of the vineyard than crossing swords with someone whose self-absorbed arrogance does more to achieve the goal of demonstrating his false doctrine than anything I could say. (You know them by their fruits)

4.       I have realised that some people just will not be told. At least not until Jesus returns “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who obey NOT the Gospel” I can only pray that those of you who read this are similarly looking to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith to guide you into all truth. (Not following a Blind leader of the blind like Ian)

I would like to say this in closing. I have from day one said most emphatically that I believe that this forum was established for the reason of cultivating bitterness, discord and general opposition to a group of churches. Churches are not buildings, they are people. Most of whom are good upstanding people and families. Much of the generalisation and attacking that occurs is unwarranted. By "Generalisation" I mean..If something occurs in the GRC this is used often to attack the RCI or the RF. This is unfair and wrong. 

I get that Unkoolman, Moth, Ian and co have a clear desire to encourage the destruction of everything Revival….. I get that!!

But what I don’t get is people who buy that these guys actually care about anyone but themselves. They have an agenda and threaten anyone who challenges their agenda with legal action. THIS IS NOT THE WAY SOMEONE WHO HAS THE TRUTH BEHAVES. The truth welcomes exploration knowing that truth ultimately remains victorious.

TO THE REVIVALIST PASTORS:

To those of you who are current Pastors of churches I say this. Over recent years I notice there has been a trend of Pastors talking to Pastors about people in their churches in such a way that is inappropriate. This is murmuring and being a Pastor does not give you a licence to Murmur! This is the real source of much of your difficulties with your people. You are servants and not Lords over their salvation. Act like a servant and all will benefit.

TO THE FORMER MEMBERS:

To those of you who have been mistreated in your various fellowships I say this. The treatment you received is in the past. You would do well to leave it there. Forgive and move on with your lives. If you need to leave, leave. Seek God for guidance and he will answer you. All you need is Patience and trust in God. He will not forsake you!!! He loves you so much, he died for you!!!

As for me…I have done no harm to anyone. I have only ever sort to help people through their problems with scriptures in hand. I spend every day of every week in absolute service in love with my brothers and sisters in the Lord. To God be the glory.

I hope and pray for you people to find that place of rest that is your inheritance through the precious blood of Jesus. You will NOT find that place here on this site.

This site is a trap designed to ensnare the weak at a time in their lives when they are most vulnerable. Stay away and warn as many as you can. That’s my advice.

God Bless

Luke 7:35

Luke: Name calling is just you reacting in a carnal manner. Referring to Ian as a "wolf in sheep's clothing Pharisee" is purely a childish meander. 

In all the Gospels when CONTEXT is taken in full consideration, Jesus was NEVER personal with anyone including the Pharisees. In all cases of His dealing with the "religious" people of His time, Jesus was really only highlighting their NEED FOR HIM.. Jesus actually loved the Pharisees and He chose one particular Pharisee to give us our New Testament Theology.. 

Luke, I reiterate a sound thesis of your positition: "Goose"

Metanoia

Good morning, Tony.

Hi All: FYI…I have recently received an email from Ian Thomason regarding my “Critical Examination of Ian Thomason's Conclusions on his “Revivalist dogma and the book of Acts (An exegetical and theological evaluation)” You did, indeed!

In the email Ian said;….I've just visited your "The Former Revivalist Discussion Forum", and noticed that you have copied, in full, several of my essays. You did not seek permission from me to do this; consequently, you have breached my copyright. I am directing you to remove any and all of my work from said site, immediately. Ian. I did, indeed!

Now I do realise that Ian believes that he is never wrong about anything, anywhere, anytime. I also realise that he, being the wolf in sheep’s clothing, Pharisee that he is simply cannot handle his conclusions being challenged or rather exposed. So his resorting to this method of threatening legal action for daring to disagree with his conclusions is of no surprise to me. Actually, the truth of the matter is somewhat different, surprise, surprise. First, it ain't I who is the one wearing the "pup" suit, friend. Second, I'm well up to having my conclusions challenged, it's just that I'm not quite so obliging when it comes to the fact of your entire website's content being my work. Third, when you engage in theft, you can expect there to be repercussions. Now this forum provides you with the opportunity to rebut my work to your heart's content; you were even specifically invited to do so. So ... where are your rebuttals? They don't exist on your site, they don't exist here, so what's the issue? Goose.

Frankly I’m more surprised he didn’t threaten me this way even sooner than he has. So you knew you were doing wrong all along, huh? That speaks volumes about your ethics, don't you think?

I did remove the evaluation from my forum for several reasons. They are as follows:

1.       As stated earlier I have sent a Word version of Ian’s work to friends in the US to critique Ian’s essay and I will re-introduce the evaluations once I get them back. 'Yes', and that was well over a year ago, if I recall correctly. So who is your "friend", and why hasn't he responded yet? Personally, I doubt that you'd know anyone with the training necessary to undertake the task, and the profound silence from your end reinforces this opinion. Incidentally, you might be interested to discover that I contacted Dr Dan Wallace in the USA several years ago regarding the broad contours of my exegetical study, and he confirmed my conclusions. Just so that you understand the significance of this, Dr Wallace is the author of what is without a doubt the most widely used koine Greek reference grammar in the world today. Of course, I verified my conclusions with several other world-renowned Greek grammarians with whom I'm acquainted too, so let's see what your "learned" friend has to put on the table. Can we expect a response before the Parousia, do you think?

2.       I think that my forum should be more about former members and their recovery than focusing on the Luke warm ideals of a Baptist Theologian/Pharisee like Ian Thomason. Your forum is a "lame duck" (perhaps "dead duck" would be a better description?), one which nobody apparently has any interest in supporting. So where are the contributions of all your members? The only person who was active there, apart from you ("Ghosted"), apparently has no interest in being so any longer. Did you ever stop to wonder why? Also, of course, I'm not a Baptist.

3.       I have much more important work to do establishing a work for Jesus in my corner of the vineyard than crossing swords with someone whose self-absorbed arrogance does more to achieve the goal of demonstrating his false doctrine than anything I could say. (You know them by their fruits). Ah, yes. You are the lummox who once lumbered in here, with (in your own words) "sword drawn", challenging all and sundry to a "duel"! If my memory serves me correctly, shortly thereafter you left with said "sword" broken, and tail located firmly between the legs, whimpering as you toddled off.

4.       I have realised that some people just will not be told. At least not until Jesus returns “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who obey NOT the Gospel” I can only pray that those of you who read this are similarly looking to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith to guide you into all truth. (Not following a Blind leader of the blind like Ian). Methinks you'd better hope that Jesus' return is delayed a wee bit longer, as you simply ain't ready!

I would like to say this in closing. I have from day one said most emphatically that I believe that this forum was established for the reason of cultivating bitterness, discord and general opposition to a group of churches. Churches are not buildings, they are people. Most of whom are good upstanding people and families. Much of the generalisation and attacking that occurs is unwarranted. By "Generalisation" I mean..If something occurs in the GRC this is used often to attack the RCI or the RF. This is unfair and wrong. Noting the emphasis that I placed on your words, above, which forum are you discussing now? This one? Or yours?

I get that Unkoolman, Moth, Ian and co have a clear desire to encourage the destruction of everything Revival….. I get that!!

But what I don’t get is people who buy that these guys actually care about anyone but themselves. They have an agenda and threaten anyone who challenges their agenda with legal action. THIS IS NOT THE WAY SOMEONE WHO HAS THE TRUTH BEHAVES. The truth welcomes exploration knowing that truth ultimately remains victorious. It's time to cease playing the hypocrite. You steal my work without asking, you build several entire fora around it, and then bemoan the fact that I take umbrage?! The reality is that I let you have your run for a while, hoping that there would be something of substance there from someone other than myself, eventually. But guess what? Nothing. Now if I wasn't interested in having you engage with my stuff, then why would I open a thread here, inviting you to do so?

In closing, you, my unchristian fiend (that's not a typo, by the way) are naught but an arrogant and self-deluded twit. If ever a man needed advice, it was you. If ever a man lacked the wherewithal to be giving advice, it is you. I'm confident that anyone who compares the crap that you serve up on your forum, to my exegeses here, will know where the truth lies. The profound silence emanating from your "discussion site" is testament to the simple discernment exercised by the masses.

Goose.

Ian

Wow! you guys are really deluded aren't you!

Again we will just have to see who is what when Jesus returns. To be sure the moment that I begin to post comprehensive commentary of your heretical exegeses in chimes Unkoolman threatening me with expulsion.  I’m sure that most would not even bother to attempt to correct all of your mistakes given that most of the mouths on this site are against anything and everything Revival. How surprising! Sigh!

If Paul were here posting on this site I think that he may post the entire letter to Jude to you guys on this site.

Read for yourself…Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

This is what I am doing!

Jud 1:4  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is who you are Ian and co!

Jud 1:5  I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jud 1:6  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jud 1:7  Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jud 1:8  Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Jud 1:9  Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

It seems that only the Lord can rebuke you guys!

Jud 1:10  But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jud 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.

How true this is and how much this is evident on this site.

Jud 1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jud 1:13  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Jud 1:14  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jud 1:15  To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jud 1:16  These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jud 1:17  But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jud 1:18  How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jud 1:19  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Again Ian, If the shoe fits!

Jud 1:20  But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Those of you who deny Speaking in Tongues, How do you Pray in the Holy Ghost Hmmm?

Jud 1:21  Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jud 1:22  And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jud 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jud 1:25  To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Now really Ian you should change your name to Archōn-Laodikeus (Prince of Laodocia)

Now the critic will say that I am being too harsh, However from Ian’s own lips he proclaims that the tongues that we all speak in fake (therefore not from God) He has condemned himself, literally digging his grave with his mouth… “mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration”  So sad that like bishop Spong all of his learning is used to work for the enemy. So sad!

Luke

Luke or tony or whtever your name is

TO THE FORMER MEMBERS:

To those of you who have been mistreated in your various fellowships I say this. The treatment you received is in the past. You would do well to leave it there. Forgive and move on with your lives. If you need to leave, leave. Seek God for guidance and he will answer you. All you need is Patience and trust in God. He will not forsake you!!! He loves you so much, he died for you!!!

Yes, he does love us and he did die for us. It's a shame we were not seen in such a precious light by the revival oversight. Like Ian, you just don't get it do you? It's nor about forgiving, as much as it is about not letting ourselves be abused again.

People Iike you and Ian don't even recognise the hurt that was done, and is still being done, yet you found it necessary to leave the place. So don't tell me you don't know there is something rotten there, because you do. You know as well as I do that these people don't change, and they are NEVER NEVER wrong.

God may not forsake us mate, but he doesn't seem to place too high a priority on protecting us from those who believe themselves to be our brethren.

Hi Luke

How do you Pray in the Holy Ghost Hmmm?

That was a showstopper for me too. Then someone pointed out the obvious. We "pray in the Holy Ghost" in the same way we "walk in the Spirit" and David spoke "in the Spirit". Walking in the Spirit doesn't mean "walking in tongues" so ...

LOL

The lukewarm 'Legion' - Luke

This Luke guy reminds me of David Brent from the UK television series, 'The Office', or Michael Scott from the American version.

A key aspect of the character of Brent is his obliviousness to how other people actually see him, causing him to lash out whenever the veil of ignorance and vanity he maintains is pierced."

Hi, Ralph.

The Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees actually knew Scripture, they understood it, and could interpret it's literal meaning correctly. "Lukie", on the other hand, simply hasn't a clue. Just as was the case with the medieval Jewish Kabbalists, our friend bypasses the literal meaning altogether, preferring instead to embrace the error of allegory. After all, if the obvious meaning doesn't suit one's ideology, then why not employ a method without checks and balances? Why not use an interpretative schema that enables one to make Scripture "say" whatever one wants?!

Our friend unashamedly is a self-professed Revivalist, after all.

Blessings,

Ian