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Didaktikon
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Date Posted:16/07/2009 10:52 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Tony.

I'd like to provide you with an opportunity to to publicly (and openly) present your "critiques" of my various exegetical essays. Here's a thread which you can fill with your evaluations to your heart's content

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Luke735 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #151
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 1:36 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Sh0es

Dear Luke,

I thank you for your considered response.
I appreciate the information regarding the "Comma Johanneum" is a lot to absorb, though I must chastise you gently that it was brought to your attention a week ago.

It does seem that much of your argument still does hinge on the "Water, Spirit & Blood"
I am happy to hear that you see the crucifixion as the centre point of your faith. Can you see how an emphasis on tongues diminishes the role of Jesus.

Simply put, the Spirit is a person sent to bare witness of Jesus and to point the Christian to Christ in all things. "Speaking in tongues" is an outward working of the Spirit but it is not the primary or even remotely central purpose to why the Spirit was sent.

You have on numerous occasions linked the receiving of the Spirit to "Speaking in tongues". Can you acknowledge that by the word receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit did not always incorporate tongues? Such as in Acts 4:31?

Your position that tongues must always be present in the believer means that for someone to be saved they must "seek" the Spirit. Do you realise that this inference of "seeking" implies that our Salvation hinges on our efforts in the "seeking" as such you are putting forward that we are saved by our works?

Can't you see that the only work required for salvation, is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ upon the cross?
If you can believe that, then you might even be saved ;)


Since you mentioned Acts 4:31 I figured I would start there...

After the Day of Pentecost. The next time anyone recorded as having been “filled with Holy Ghost” was Acts 4:31. This story however is a little different. It is not unreasonable to assume that these people were already believers, who were coming together to pray, and simply waxed bold in the spirit.

To understand the story you need to go to the beginning of the chapter.

 

Act 4:4  Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand (5000).

Act 4:5  And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,

Act 4:6  And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.

 

This whole chapter is centered around the opposition that the Apostles met at the hand of the Sanhedrin (the very people who crucified the Lord)

 

Act 4:8  Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Act 4:9  If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

Act 4:10  Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

 

Here; Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost” begins to give the Sanhedrin a real dressing down. There is no mention of anyone being converted or seeking salvation. The only conversion occurred on the previous day, approximately 5000 people.

 

The Apostles went on to confront the Sanhedrin:

Act 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

 

Again, remember what the definition of a Witness is. A Witness is…someone who has firsthand knowledge about a crime or dramatic event through their senses (e.g. seeing, hearing, smelling, touching) as in Act 2:32- 33 whereof we all are witnesses….. and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Act 4:27  For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Act 4:28  For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Act 4:29  And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

Act 4:30  By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

 

This is the first time in the book of Acts that someone is spoken of as having been filled with the Holy Spirit, WITHOUT the mention of speaking in tongues. So it is


important that any attempt to explain this verse away as being fundamentally different to the other examples of Acts 2:4, Acts 10:44 & Acts 19:1 is accurate.

 

 

This verse is very critical to those who oppose speaking in tongues. The reason being that the omission of “the MENTION” of tongues is enough to place tongues in the “optional extra” basket. If this was your life on the line. Do you think that those who oppose tongues have a strong case? Yes or No?

 

It is also noteworthy that many of those who use this reference to refuse speaking in tongues also use it to refuse Baptism and repentance. Ultimately it is up to the individual to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

Act 4:31  And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. (Refer to Topic 16 for more on this subject)

Act 4:32  And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Act 4:33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Act 4:34  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Act 4:35  And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


 

Just to recap the Chronology of this chapter:

Verse 4

5000 believed and were added to the Church

Verses 5-6

They meet opposition from the Jewish authorities

Verses 8-10

Peter was filled with the Holy Ghost” & waxed bold

Verses 27-30

The others prayed to receive the same boldness

Verses 31-35

“They had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness”.



 

I have met opponents to speaking in tongues who cite this story as evidence that tongues is NOT required. They say that those referred to in verse 31 did not speak in tongues and therefore the Revival Fellowship doctrine does not stand critical testing. If one were to say that the opponents of tongues had met their burden of proof with this story are clearly wrong. I am sure the rational, sincere reader would agree that this chapter does not suggest that new converts were saved with the exclusion of tongues. It is not even close! As such the opposition is far from proving anything.


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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 2:07 PMCopy HTML

Tony. 

Some excellent questions are being asked and you're drowning them out with your many words, and beginning to flood the board, as was your tactic last year, resulting in your banning. I would prefer shorter and more direct replies with a modest word count that engage with the topic. I've given you freedom of speech as a guest on my forum - something I doubt any of our regulars would be allowed at yours - but please do not wear out your welcome. Don't force me to be a nasty moderator and take back my generosity to boot you, until such time you try to invade the forum in yet another disguise. 

I will not host your personal library here and will ask, but not demand, you to cull your previous posts before submitting anymore.

I also asked you not to post direct links to your forum as I will not host such links here to promote your material. Does your memory fail you?

In case your memory is in question I would like to direct you to Ian's original invitation. By all means respond to any questions, but this is not the place for you to cut and paste your infamous 25 essays.

  • I'd like to provide you with an opportunity to to publicly (and openly) present your "critiques" of my various exegetical essays. Here's a thread which you can fill with your evaluations to your heart's content.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 8:47 PMCopy HTML

Luke

Thanks for your replies.
 
Given your mixing of allegory and "literal" within the same verses it seems I have to take back what I said about you appreciating the context of Mk 16.16-18. The same goes for your line that "Because ALL Christians Speak in Tongues then at least one of the signs will follow
"

C'est la vie.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 10:45 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Uncoolman

Tony. 

Some excellent questions are being asked and you're drowning them out with your many words, and beginning to flood the board, as was your tactic last year, resulting in your banning. I would prefer shorter and more direct replies with a modest word count that engage with the topic. I've given you freedom of speech as a guest on my forum - something I doubt any of our regulars would be allowed at yours - but please do not wear out your welcome. Don't force me to be a nasty moderator and take back my generosity to boot you, until such time you try to invade the forum in yet another disguise. 

I will not host your personal library here and will ask, but not demand, you to cull your previous posts before submitting anymore.

I also asked you not to post direct links to your forum as I will not host such links here to promote your material. Does your memory fail you?

In case your memory is in question I would like to direct you to Ian's original invitation. By all means respond to any questions, but this is not the place for you to cut and paste your infamous 25 essays.

  • I'd like to provide you with an opportunity to to publicly (and openly) present your "critiques" of my various exegetical essays. Here's a thread which you can fill with your evaluations to your heart's content.

Ok Unkoolman:

I do realize that you do not want links on here but this is sometimes necessary to make sense of the debate. But that doesn’t matter I guess now. This will be my last post on this site. (For now)

I realize that this “court of public OPINION” has unfortunately already decided the result. So I feel that I am wasting my valuable time here.

When I said earlier I would be “getting the ball rolling” I meant that until we systematically go through each and every instance of the Holy Ghost being mentioned and work through it there can be little or no progress made toward reaching the truth.

In response to Unkoolman’s post above, I now realize that this will not be allowed to occur on this site. The only avenue open to me that fits within the aforementioned guidelines is to respond to each and every OPINION voiced on this site. I simply do not have the time open to me to engage in such time sapping activities.

I will leave it up to the individuals reading this to decide whether or not to continue to hear one side of the argument and make their decisions based on that one sided point of view.

I would also suggest that in such an environment where I am playing a lone hand against some very entrenched positions that any chance of truth being established was always going to be faint at best.

On that note I must bid you all a sincere goodbye and I can only pray that your journey is seasoned with grace and that the truth of the glorious gospel be allowed to penetrate your hearts.

I would like to especially thank Ian who has patiently challenged me and even though I believe that he is blind to the truth (blinded by his pride) I am sure he means well and will reap what he sows (good or bad) God is the judge of that.

To Moth I would say that I hope that all goes well for you moving forward and time is a great healer.

To others who have contributed to this debate, please forgive my clumsy if not antiquated approach. I am after all just a former drug dealer and simple believer who God saved from oblivion and am now I am seeing the wonderful fruit of obedience to Gods word.

God Bless

Luke 7:35


Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #155
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 10:59 PMCopy HTML

Tony,

I really do hate to burst your bubble, bud; but it's high time that you started reading what's actually in front of you rather than what you hope is in front of you every time you open a book. And given the recent replies by Shoes, Mothman and Talmid, I don't feel the need to cover the same ground afresh with you. Sufficient it is for me to point out the following, hopefully for your considered reflection:

1. Contrary to what you clearly believe to be the case, Charles Finney didn't speak in tongues; however, there is evidence that he spoke against tongues. So I'd suggest that you engage in a little critical study of the man, his teaching, his contemporaries and his associates before simply assuming that he meant what you mean every time you see the words 'baptism of the Holy Ghost'.

2. I've previously addressed that very same nonsensical response/misinterpretation of Mark 16:17ff that you've posted here, and then in quite a bit of detail. However, the fact that you continue to propagate this nonsense as if nothing had happened speaks volumes concerning both your character and teachability. Given your obvious penchant for quoting Greek, perhaps you can explain for me how your picking-and-choosing of what is to be taken in a literal sense, and what is figurative, can be supported by the presence of categorical plurals in the Greek text of the passage?

3. I note that you continue to reinterpret/filter Luke through Paul. Again, I've pointed out why such an approach is invalid previously. Noting this, could you please explain for me how a reader of Luke's writings (say, Theophilus) located in Rome, would possibly have had access to one of Paul's letters to a church in Corinth? Especially given the fact that Paul's writings weren't collected and distributed as a corpus until well into the second century. Or did you naively assume that each and every church had the complete 27 books comprising the New Testament from the very beginning?

That should do for now.

Goose.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #156
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 11:09 PMCopy HTML

Tony,

Your continued attempts at defending Revivalist heresy were certainly "clumsy" enough, but I'd suggest that such had less to do with you being a "former drug dealer/user", and more to do with you lacking any sort of scriptural warrant for your various bizarre and unchristian views: you presented nothing but untethered and unsupported opinions; I presented substantiated and contextually validated facts.

Furthermore, I wouldn't naively presume to being "saved" were I you. Scripture very clearly teaches that the gospel is the power of God that leads to salvation; you don't believe the gospel, so how on earth could you possibly be saved? These are grave issues, and deserve considered reflection. Time for you to ditch Longfield's anti-Christian rubbish and embrace Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In short, it's time to consider becoming a Christian yourself.

Goose.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #157
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/08/2009 11:55 PMCopy HTML

Regarding the '120' confusion:

The conversation ran it's course previously with Brett and Sabrina at

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:14/08/2009 6:39 AMCopy HTML

Hi Luke
 
here is a link to answer ALL your questions and doubtful assertions on Mark 16.

http://revival.aimoo.com/Please-Consider-An-examination/Mark-16-and-Revival-Mike-Hore--1-1009138.html

happy learning

Metanoia
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:15/08/2009 2:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Fremde


Are you, or was Finney perhaps related to Kevin Rudd?

Cheeky bugger.

As to your deputy sheriff's badge of being an ex drug addict, compared to my past, you were a sissy! So what? Is this a competition with the theme "anything evil you did, I did worse"? My father was a policeman, was your father a fireman?

Yes we know you are a hard man mr fremde, some of the things you have said prove that. I know we are not supposed to mind if it hurts, but some of us do. Some of us have not let the scar tissue from past hurts build up layers of hardness in us. In my experience if I try to harden my heart even a little it blocks god out, and of course that simply will not do.

We have all done stupid things, some of us more stupid than others. That doesn't take away from Luke's experience of coming out of darkness into light. I think the levels of darkness that some people sink to never cease to shock them once they have experienced the light. No, its not a competition, and thank god for that. When it comes to human stupidity, there are no winners, only losers.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:15/08/2009 10:48 AMCopy HTML

That's correct, but one questions whether such has come from darkness to light or from darkness to remaining in darkness.  Luke has clearly demonstrated he is still ignorant of scripture.


That is between him and god. We cannot even pretend to know his heart, or where he stands with god. Having a "correct" knowledge of scripture does not make one a christian.

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:16/08/2009 11:02 AMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust

Regarding the '120' confusion:

The conversation ran it's course previously with Brett and Sabrina at


Leads one to beg the question: "How dumb can a Revival Centre/Fellowship Pastor get and still be able to breathe??" Obviously John Kuhlman, Lloyd Longfield, Victor Samoilenko and the rest of the dumb pastoral gang must be very dumb and stupid indeed to think one can squeeze 120 people into a tiny upper room. Lets face it Darcy Ryan needs a building the size of a renovated second hand movie theatre called "Planet" to seat a capacity meeting of 100 people. Now imagine a small room with 120 people cramped standing room only and someone ate beans or cabbage for breakfast and had a gas problem !!!smiley3 ...   and only a tiny window for ventilation. But this highlights the sad fact that Revival Centre and Fellowship pastors do not read their Bibles properly.... CONTEXT !!!

Metanoia
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:16/08/2009 7:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Fremde

Metanoin,

Aha! You have touched on something unwittingly methinks! Perhaps that's why Lloyd Longfield bought the Forum theatre corner of (Flinders & Russel Streets Melbourne), he was hoping for his own Pentecost, but bigger (he was no servant, and definitely thought himself to be greater than his Lord). Perhaps the Gothic look of the Forum was all part of his fantasy.

Considering that Jerusalem was subject to the Romans, and there had been many insurrections, it would be unlikely that closed gatherings of large numbers (120) in a private upper room would be unlawful.

No doubt Galien will read into this that I have a dislike for multi-storied dwellings, all things Gothic, theatres, conquerors of Mediterranean descent, zealous Jews, open spaces, confined spaces or perhaps quixotically tilt at some other windmill.

John


..And apart from the obvious gas problem, 120 folk jammed in the overcrowded space of a tiny upper room clapping their hands and singing "This is the Day"...


-- get real !!!

Metanoia


ps it is known that Jewish folk eat dairy foods on the pilgrimage feast of Shavuot so lucky for the 120 as they would have eaten cheese  and therefore the internals would have suffered blockage instead... smiley7 
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:16/08/2009 10:34 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Fremde

Metanoin,

Aha! You have touched on something unwittingly methinks!

John

Just one point John.. 120 people crammed in one room would leave only standing space .But the Bible is quite clear that they were sitting, (Acts 2:2) And according to the definition for "oikos - house" in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Volume 5 page 119, we could be referring to the Temple as the place of the outpouring on the Day of Pentecost, hence Ian's thesis that it was the Eleven alone is therefore correct from all the Biblical data that we are presented with.

 .... Luke !! What say ye ???

Metanoia..




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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:17/08/2009 10:40 AMCopy HTML

 Reply to Metanoian

That's a really good point, and I imagine that the 120 doesn't include toddlers that were with their mothers etc.

Don't hold your breath for Lukemeister to respond to it... he's a very 'busy' man and doesn't have time to respond to all the opinions here. He did have time to write billion word colour-coded essays, and planned to systematically reintepret every instance of the Holy Ghost in scripture for us though.../eyeroll
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:18/08/2009 12:24 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

The only mind that can't be changed is the one that is completely and irrevocably closed. Such may be the case with "Luke" (he gives every indication of this); however, my experience has been that even the hardest "nuts" eventually "crack" under pressure of the truth.

Ian


email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:18/08/2009 12:46 AMCopy HTML

I think that is probably true if the person is really seeking god. With Him, there is nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:18/08/2009 9:06 AMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust

 Reply to Metanoian
That's a really good point, and I imagine that the 120 doesn't include toddlers that were with their mothers etc.

Don't hold your breath for Lukemeister to respond to it... he's a very 'busy' man and doesn't have time to respond to all the opinions here. He did have time to write billion word colour-coded essays, and planned to systematically reintepret every instance of the Holy Ghost in scripture for us though.../eyeroll

Mothra,

Me thinks that Luke might have gone into hiding. Perhaps Ian has actually and successfully  knocked some sense into Lukey's head !!


Metanoia
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 5:33 AMCopy HTML

No I am not going anywhere. I am just very busy with work as well as fellowship commitments.

The difficulty with spending too much time trying to speak some sense to moth of you on this site is that almost all of the regulars on this site have a history of conflict in one form or another which impedes your collective ability to make fair and rational deliberations of my posts.

It is almost like whenever the Government makes an announcement the opposition merely takes the opposite point of view for the sake of not appearing to agree.

One of the primary difficulties that the Pharisees had with Jesus was that often his words were mixed with parables, types and symbols. Peter also noted that his writings were at times very difficult to understand.

2Pe 3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. 2Pe 3:18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.  

Please note that when Peter wrote that this. He wrote to and about people who were members of the church, as we all are. So we do need at times to take care not to make the mistake of pretending that we have ALL the answers and subsequently wrestling with the scriptures to our own detriment.

We must always remember Proverbs 25:2 which says…Pro 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Conclusion: Many of my coments have been misunderstood because they are spiritually discerned not rationally examined.

Another reason why I have visibly backed off trying to correct all of you guys is that at any given moment over recent weeks I had several simultaneous questions/challenges being directed at me. The questions were reasonable ones to ask. However! when accompanied with half a dozen others, led to a lot of confusion on both sides of the fence.

This process was very frustrating for all concerned and led to many misunderstandings.

My sincere desire is to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This led me to consider the scriptures and seek God for the wise choice, if not the logical one.

In 72AD when the Romans encircled Jerusalem there were several factions inside the Holy City (a type of the Church) who were fighting with each other for control.

It wasn’t until the Romans attacked that they actually stopped fighting among themselves.

This is a valuable lesson about human nature and this is what is occurring here. Just for the sake of argument pretend for a moment that what I have said is exactly right. The setting is so hostile that and balanced examination of the arguments cannot be conducted in a deliberate and meditative way. There is just too much background noise.

I am going to finish be taking poetic licence with  Romans 10:1-13 (my words in Red)

Rom 10:1  Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for (You people on this site) Israel is, that they might be saved. Rom 10:2  For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. (A spiritual knowledge that derives from God and NOT our own intellectual manufacturing of truth based on what we are willing to accept)  Rom 10:3  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, (based on works) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:4  For Christ (The finished work of Jesus on the Cross – including the infilling of the Holy Ghost and Speaking in tongues as evidence) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Signs follow believers)

Rom 10:5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:6  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Rom 10:7  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess (Say the same as ) with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Signs follow believers)

Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:11  For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: (You and I) for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I hope that you all can find your way back into a place where you are walking in the Spirit and leading overcoming live in the fellowship of your choice. I do feel that Ian is a wolf in sheep’s clothing preying on wounded and vulnerable sheep. As the scriptures and nature tells us is the case. (He is not the only one).

Jesus is coming back and I simply cannot justify wasting valuable time arguing with people. As such I will move on and do the first works and stop preaching to the converted.

May God Bless all of you; for whom Christ died.

Jesus loves  you and so do I.

Luke 7:35

Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #169
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 5:43 AMCopy HTML

Tony,

In a word, 'bollocks'. The only person who believes that you have the correct interpretation of Scripture is you. None of your pals from that poor attempt at a discussion forum of yours seem overly keen to be associated with you any longer either, perhaps because they realise that you play overly fast-and-loose with God's Word (even by Revivalist standards). Furthermore your 'spiritually discerned interpretations' are nothing of the sort. What they are is plain old fashion Scripture wresting, and you know how that ends don't you?

Given your interpretation of the Romans passage I've got to ask this: can you walk, talk and chew gum at the same time?!

Goose.

Ian

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prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #170
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 5:58 AMCopy HTML

I am fairly regular on here and dont have a history of conflict. When in grc I was quiet and listened. trouble is I prayed and read my Bible and seen the lies and sneaky brainwashing tricks. Also as I have already stated having the sign of tongues is fake if there is no fruit. The red bits you have added to the bible quotes are the same old dogma we have all had the scales removed to see through. Rev. 22v18 If any man shall add unto these things............
I have recieved the sign of tongues. my presbyterian pastor also has recieved the sign of tongues. The difference between him and revival 'pastors' is he has put in the effort to learn the scriptures. He has the Holy Spirit with or without tongues, and like Paul has the scripture knowledge as well. Add to this he is a warm, honest and loving person. Sorry but without the fruit you are living in fake land, and playing churches.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 10:15 AMCopy HTML

Lookey,

No I am not going anywhere. I am just very busy with work as well as fellowship commitments.
 
"On that note I must bid you all a sincere goodbye". Not really sincere, and not really a goodbye.

The difficulty with spending too much time trying to speak some sense to moth of you on this site is that almost all of the regulars on this site have a history of conflict in one form or another which impedes your collective ability to make fair and rational deliberations of my posts.

1. The moth freudian slip? Hmm... looks like I 'have' affected you. I'm the only moth here, and we're all individuals, not drones as you're used to seeing in your 'unified' Revival (or conformity bound Revivalism). 2. Your generalisations astound me yet again and cement the arrogant and patronising picture I have of you.

It is almost like whenever the Government makes an announcement the opposition merely takes the opposite point of view for the sake of not appearing to agree. 

Wow. You are truly in your own little world buddy boy.

One of the primary difficulties that the Pharisees had with Jesus was that often his words were mixed with parables, types and symbols. 

Yes yes... everyone here is a pharisee. /sigh, and /pat pat again. I bet you see them everywhere, while you flail your arms. 'Worldies', 'Pentecostals' and 'Pharisees' ---> Revival labels for people 'not' in Revival.

Peter also noted that his writings were at times very difficult to understand.

Maybe if your spelling and grasp of grammar were a little more mature you might get your message across better. It'd still be nonsense, and it'd still be something most of us already believe and preached for a huge chunk of our lives, and then thankfully moved on from.

Many of my coments have been misunderstood because they are spiritually discerned not rationally examined.

We ALL read those scriptures previously AS Revival drones who saw the scriptures through your 'spiritual' tongue coloured glasses already. We concluded that the whole Lloyd Lore was at fault. Also see a previous comment in this thread that was just 'gold' on that crazy reasoning of yours. You love to compare others to the JWs, but use it on yourself for a tick.

Just for the sake of argument pretend for a moment that what I have said is exactly right. The setting is so hostile that and balanced examination of the arguments cannot be conducted in a deliberate and meditative way. 

Pish posh. Hostile? Check the sarcastic tone YOU started the discussion with. You're looking for hostility and you have pig arrogance with it. People here have come out of the belief system you're trying to resell. Been there done that. Bought the t-shirt and grew out of it. 

Jesus is coming back and I simply cannot justify wasting valuable time arguing with people. As such I will move on and do the first works and stop preaching to the converted.

Jesus was coming back very soon when I came into Revival back in 1988... and he said he was coming back 'soon' to his mates 2000 years ago... forgive me if I don't bow to the urgency and be blindsided into taking on the Revival lie again. And oh, so now you're going? Well, goodo. Feel free to pop back in and answer the glaringly unanswered questions whenever you have free time. They're always entertaining in a cringey type of way.

May God Bless all of you; for whom Christ died. Jesus loves you and so do I.

You and Jesus hey? Forget the holy trinity, we have the bizarre Duality here instead. :P
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 11:36 AMCopy HTML

Luke735,
Twisting scripture is very naughty, and you even admit to doing so and put in disclaimers of "poetic licence". Tsk tsk tsk. Try reading the whole book of Romans, slowly, and with humility, and see whether it gels with the Revivalist "salvation doctrine". Actually, try reading the Gospels, perhaps the gospel of John, and see if that lines up with your doctrine. Then repeat with other NT books. Then do some research into the early christian church and try to find out whether they believed what you do.

There are heaps of other ways you could approach this truth-finding research, but you will always arrive at the same conclusion: the RF "salvation doctrine" is rubbish.

I hope that instead of preaching ad infinitum, you direct your energy to some self-examination. Your colour coded preaching is kind of amusing to read, but you are definitely not convincing anyone, rather, you are holding up a mirror and we are seeing ourselves with a several year time delay, and thanking God for taking us out of there.

Sin Tax Error
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 11:09 PMCopy HTML

Luke

Be sure to post when you get that promised evaluation by koine Greek experts of "the large Acts essay".  (I'm being patient but curious as to whether anything will eventuate.) Be sure to let us know what their level of expertise is.

PS It would be a *really* good idea to follow up the suggestions in SinTaxError's last post. They're good stuff!

PPS Your appoach to the scripture far from being Spiritual is rather spiritual and really does align you with Re 22.18-19.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:19/08/2009 11:24 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Talmid.

Be sure to post when you get that promised evaluation by koine Greek experts of "the large Acts essay".  (I'm being patient but curious as to whether anything will eventuate.) Be sure to let us know what their level of expertise is.

I'd forgotten all about that! "Lukie's" threat to "disprove" my Greek exegeses

Don't hold your breath, bro'.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:30/08/2009 12:38 PMCopy HTML

Hi All: FYI…I have recently received an email from Ian Thomason regarding my “Critical Examination of Ian Thomason's Conclusions on his “Revivalist dogma and the book of Acts (An exegetical and theological evaluation)”

In the email Ian said;….I've just visited your "The Former Revivalist Discussion Forum", and noticed that you have copied, in full, several of my essays. You did not seek permission from me to do this; consequently, you have breached my copyright. I am directing you to remove any and all of my work from said site, immediately.    Ian

Now I do realise that Ian believes that he is never wrong about anything, anywhere, anytime. I also realise that he, being the wolf in sheep’s clothing, Pharisee that he is simply cannot handle his conclusions being challenged or rather exposed. So his resorting to this method of threatening legal action for daring to disagree with his conclusions is of no surprise to me.

Frankly I’m more surprised he didn’t threaten me this way even sooner than he has. I can only surmise that he saw an opportunity to grab some limelight while it was there to be grabbed. I did remove the evaluation from my forum for several reasons.

They are as follows:

1.       As stated earlier I have sent a Word version of Ian’s work to friends in the US to critique Ian’s essay and I will re-introduce the evaluations once I get them back.

2.       I think that my forum should be more about former members and their recovery than focusing on the Luke warm ideals of a Baptist Theologian/Pharisee like Ian Thomason.

3.       I have much more important work to do establishing a work for Jesus in my corner of the vineyard than crossing swords with someone whose self-absorbed arrogance does more to achieve the goal of demonstrating his false doctrine than anything I could say. (You know them by their fruits)

4.       I have realised that some people just will not be told. At least not until Jesus returns “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who obey NOT the Gospel” I can only pray that those of you who read this are similarly looking to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith to guide you into all truth. (Not following a Blind leader of the blind like Ian)

I would like to say this in closing. I have from day one said most emphatically that I believe that this forum was established for the reason of cultivating bitterness, discord and general opposition to a group of churches. Churches are not buildings, they are people. Most of whom are good upstanding people and families. Much of the generalisation and attacking that occurs is unwarranted. By "Generalisation" I mean..If something occurs in the GRC this is used often to attack the RCI or the RF. This is unfair and wrong. 

I get that Unkoolman, Moth, Ian and co have a clear desire to encourage the destruction of everything Revival….. I get that!!

But what I don’t get is people who buy that these guys actually care about anyone but themselves. They have an agenda and threaten anyone who challenges their agenda with legal action. THIS IS NOT THE WAY SOMEONE WHO HAS THE TRUTH BEHAVES. The truth welcomes exploration knowing that truth ultimately remains victorious.

 

TO THE REVIVALIST PASTORS:

To those of you who are current Pastors of churches I say this. Over recent years I notice there has been a trend of Pastors talking to Pastors about people in their churches in such a way that is inappropriate. This is murmuring and being a Pastor does not give you a licence to Murmur! This is the real source of much of your difficulties with your people. You are servants and not Lords over their salvation. Act like a servant and all will benefit.

TO THE FORMER MEMBERS:

To those of you who have been mistreated in your various fellowships I say this. The treatment you received is in the past. You would do well to leave it there. Forgive and move on with your lives. If you need to leave, leave. Seek God for guidance and he will answer you. All you need is Patience and trust in God. He will not forsake you!!! He loves you so much, he died for you!!!

As for me…I have done no harm to anyone. I have only ever sort to help people through their problems with scriptures in hand. I spend every day of every week in absolute service in love with my brothers and sisters in the Lord. To God be the glory.

I hope and pray for you people to find that place of rest that is your inheritance through the precious blood of Jesus. You will NOT find that place here on this site.

This site is a trap designed to ensnare the weak at a time in their lives when they are most vulnerable. Stay away and warn as many as you can. That’s my advice.

God Bless

Luke 7:35

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:30/08/2009 1:45 PMCopy HTML

 Luke
You are a foolish upstart and the things you do, and the melodramatic things you say should embarrass you, a lot. I commend the users of this forum who have been patient enough to tolerate the obstinance you eschew. How sad that everything goes above your head so easily.

Copyright laws exist for good reason and, by the way, I'm certain you do not currently have the permission to use RCI images on your forum or forums. More indiscretion? 
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:30/08/2009 9:17 PMCopy HTML


As stated earlier I have sent a Word version of Ian’s work to friends in the US to critique Ian’s essay and I will re-introduce the evaluations once I get them back.

If you are going to get "friends" in the U.S. to critique Ian's essay then it would be most appropriate for you to disclose on this forum discussion board who your "friends" are and what are their academic credentials and or academic resumes !! ...   so how about it Luke ??? who are these "friends" of yours and what are their credentials ??

.. but maybe these "friends" of yours are "aphantos" and don't exist at all !!

Metanoia 

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:30/08/2009 10:12 PMCopy HTML

Luke: Name calling is just you reacting in a carnal manner. Referring to Ian as a "wolf in sheep's clothing Pharisee" is purely a childish meander. 

In all the Gospels when CONTEXT is taken in full consideration, Jesus was NEVER personal with anyone including the Pharisees. In all cases of His dealing with the "religious" people of His time, Jesus was really only highlighting their NEED FOR HIM.. Jesus actually loved the Pharisees and He chose one particular Pharisee to give us our New Testament Theology.. 

Luke, I reiterate a sound thesis of your positition: "Goose"

Metanoia

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:30/08/2009 10:48 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Tony.

Hi All: FYI…I have recently received an email from Ian Thomason regarding my “Critical Examination of Ian Thomason's Conclusions on his “Revivalist dogma and the book of Acts (An exegetical and theological evaluation)” You did, indeed!

In the email Ian said;….I've just visited your "The Former Revivalist Discussion Forum", and noticed that you have copied, in full, several of my essays. You did not seek permission from me to do this; consequently, you have breached my copyright. I am directing you to remove any and all of my work from said site, immediately. Ian. I did, indeed!

Now I do realise that Ian believes that he is never wrong about anything, anywhere, anytime. I also realise that he, being the wolf in sheep’s clothing, Pharisee that he is simply cannot handle his conclusions being challenged or rather exposed. So his resorting to this method of threatening legal action for daring to disagree with his conclusions is of no surprise to me. Actually, the truth of the matter is somewhat different, surprise, surprise. First, it ain't I who is the one wearing the "pup" suit, friend. Second, I'm well up to having my conclusions challenged, it's just that I'm not quite so obliging when it comes to the fact of your entire website's content being my work. Third, when you engage in theft, you can expect there to be repercussions. Now this forum provides you with the opportunity to rebut my work to your heart's content; you were even specifically invited to do so. So ... where are your rebuttals? They don't exist on your site, they don't exist here, so what's the issue? Goose.

Frankly I’m more surprised he didn’t threaten me this way even sooner than he has. So you knew you were doing wrong all along, huh? That speaks volumes about your ethics, don't you think?

I did remove the evaluation from my forum for several reasons. They are as follows:

1.       As stated earlier I have sent a Word version of Ian’s work to friends in the US to critique Ian’s essay and I will re-introduce the evaluations once I get them back. 'Yes', and that was well over a year ago, if I recall correctly. So who is your "friend", and why hasn't he responded yet? Personally, I doubt that you'd know anyone with the training necessary to undertake the task, and the profound silence from your end reinforces this opinion. Incidentally, you might be interested to discover that I contacted  Dr Dan Wallace in the USA several years ago regarding the broad contours of my exegetical study, and he confirmed my conclusions. Just so that you understand the significance of this, Dr Wallace is the author of what is without a doubt the most widely used koine Greek reference grammar in the world today. Of course, I verified my conclusions with several other world-renowned Greek grammarians with whom I'm acquainted too, so let's see what your "learned" friend has to put on the table. Can we expect a response before the Parousia, do you think?

2.       I think that my forum should be more about former members and their recovery than focusing on the Luke warm ideals of a Baptist Theologian/Pharisee like Ian Thomason. Your forum is a "lame duck" (perhaps "dead duck" would be a better description?), one which nobody apparently has any interest in supporting. So where are the contributions of all your members? The only person who was active there, apart from you ("Ghosted"), apparently has no interest in being so any longer. Did you ever stop to wonder why?

3.       I have much more important work to do establishing a work for Jesus in my corner of the vineyard than crossing swords with someone whose self-absorbed arrogance does more to achieve the goal of demonstrating his false doctrine than anything I could say. (You know them by their fruits). Ah, yes. You are the lummox who once lumbered in here, with (in your own words) "sword drawn", challenging all and sundry to a "duel"! If my memory serves me correctly, shortly thereafter you left with said "sword" broken, and tail located firmly between the legs, whimpering as you toddled off. To "arrogant", then, clearly we should add "deluded" to the list of your moral faults.

4.       I have realised that some people just will not be told. At least not until Jesus returns “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who obey NOT the Gospel” I can only pray that those of you who read this are similarly looking to Jesus the author and finisher of your faith to guide you into all truth. (Not following a Blind leader of the blind like Ian). Methinks you'd better hope that Jesus' return is delayed a wee bit longer, as you simply ain't ready!

I would like to say this in closing. I have from day one said most emphatically that I believe that this forum was established for the reason of cultivating bitterness, discord and general opposition to a group of churches. Churches are not buildings, they are people. Most of whom are good upstanding people and families. Much of the generalisation and attacking that occurs is unwarranted. By "Generalisation" I mean..If something occurs in the GRC this is used often to attack the RCI or the RF. This is unfair and wrong. Noting the emphasis that I placed on your words, above, which forum are you discussing now? This one? Or yours? Dimwit.

I get that Unkoolman, Moth, Ian and co have a clear desire to encourage the destruction of everything Revival….. I get that!!

But what I don’t get is people who buy that these guys actually care about anyone but themselves. They have an agenda and threaten anyone who challenges their agenda with legal action. THIS IS NOT THE WAY SOMEONE WHO HAS THE TRUTH BEHAVES. The truth welcomes exploration knowing that truth ultimately remains victorious. It's time to cease playing the hypocrite, you twit. You steal my work without asking, you build an entire forum around it, and then bemoan the fact that I take umbrage?! The reality is that I let you have your run for a while, hoping that there would be something of substance there from someone other than myself, eventually. But guess what? Nothing. Now if I wasn't interested in having you engage with my stuff, then why would I open a thread here, inviting you to do so? How loose is your grasp on reality, do you think?

In closing, you, my unchristian fiend (and that's not a typo, by the way) are naught but an arrogant and self-deluded twit. If ever a man needed advice, it was you. If ever a man lacked the wherewithal to be giving advice, it is you. I'm confident that anyone who compares the cr*p that you serve up on your forum, to my exegeses here, will know where the truth lies. The profound silence emanating from your "discussion site" is testament to the simple discernment exercised by the masses.

Goose.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 1:44 AMCopy HTML

Wow! you guys are really deluded aren't you!

Again we will just have to see who is what when Jesus returns. To be sure the moment that I begin to post comprehensive commentary of your heretical exegeses in chimes Unkoolman threatening me with expulsion.  I’m sure that most would not even bother to attempt to correct all of your mistakes given that most of the mouths on this site are against anything and everything Revival. How surprising! Sigh!

If Paul were here posting on this site I think that he may post the entire letter to Jude to you guys on this site.

Read for yourself…Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

This is what I am doing!

Jud 1:4  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is who you are Ian and co!

Jud 1:5  I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jud 1:6  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jud 1:7  Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jud 1:8  Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Jud 1:9  Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

It seems that only the Lord can rebuke you guys!

Jud 1:10  But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jud 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.

How true this is and how much this is evident on this site.

Jud 1:12  These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jud 1:13  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Jud 1:14  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jud 1:15  To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jud 1:16  These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jud 1:17  But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jud 1:18  How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jud 1:19  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Again Ian, If the shoe fits!

Jud 1:20  But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Those of you who deny Speaking in Tongues, How do you Pray in the Holy Ghost Hmmm?

Jud 1:21  Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jud 1:22  And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jud 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jud 1:25  To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Now really Ian you should change your name to Archōn-Laodikeus (Prince of Laodocia)

Now the critic will say that I am being too harsh, However from Ian’s own lips he proclaims that the tongues that we all speak in fake (therefore not from God) He has condemned himself, literally digging his grave with his mouth… mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration”  So sad that like bishop Spong all of his learning is used to work for the enemy. So sad!

Luke

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 1:52 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Luke735

Wow! you guys are really deluded aren't you!


I think it is a case of "pot calling the kettle black."

 ... and Paul didn't write the Book of Jude.

Now can you cut your eisegetical systematic waffle and get to the point .... um do you always play eisegeses when you approach the Bible ??

Metanoian
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 2:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Seguidor

Luke,

Your not only a moralist among other things, but completely ignorant of scripture.

Satan uses scripture to try to deceive. Can't you see that your the only one on here that your "father" is deceiving.


Lukie's "magnum opus" you might say ....

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 2:47 AMCopy HTML

Luke,

You can quote and wrest scripture till the cows come home, but you know well that those around you in Pentecostal and/or Revivalist meetings babble the same thing over, and over, and over, as they did in so called tongues before imagined/fabricated interpretations. It's a con. You can blame Ian, me or whom ever you like, but they or you are not fooling anyone here anymore, and if you sincerely believe, then you are fooling yourself.

A tree is known by its fruit and the ground of the 20th century and now the 21st is covered with the rotten fruit of extortionists, fornicators, adulterers, charlatans and blasphemers in Pentecostal and Revivalist pastoral/eldership positions.

If you lie down with dogs, you get fleas and you keep coming here furiously scratching.

John
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 4:00 AMCopy HTML

Luke or tony or whtever your name is

TO THE FORMER MEMBERS:

To those of you who have been mistreated in your various fellowships I say this. The treatment you received is in the past. You would do well to leave it there. Forgive and move on with your lives. If you need to leave, leave. Seek God for guidance and he will answer you. All you need is Patience and trust in God. He will not forsake you!!! He loves you so much, he died for you!!!

Yes, he does love us and he did die for us. It's a shame we were not seen in such a precious light by the revival oversight. Like Ian, you just don't get it do you? It's nor about forgiving, as much as it is about not letting ourselves be abused again.

People Iike you and Ian don't even recognise the hurt that was done, and is still being done, yet you found it necessary to leave the place. So don't tell me you don't know there is something rotten there, because you do. You know as well as I do that these people don't change, and they are NEVER NEVER wrong.

God may not forsake us mate, but he doesn't seem to place too high a priority on protecting us from those who believe themselves to be our brethren.

Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #185
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 4:05 AMCopy HTML

Hi Luke

How do you Pray in the Holy Ghost Hmmm?

That was a showstopper for me too. Then someone pointed out the obvious. We "pray in the Holy Ghost" in the same way we "walk in the Spirit" and David spoke "in the Spirit". Walking in the Spirit doesn't mean "walking in tongues" so ...

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 4:09 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien


. Like Ian, you just don't get it do you?


Galien, your social intercourse with Ian is boring - ho hum smiley38
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #187
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 4:35 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

You present as being rather like a broken record: "Ian this, Ian that"; blah, blah, blah. Don't you ever stop to wonder why it seems that nobody pays very much in the way of heed to your views? Speaking personally, I'd rather that you became part of the solution, instead of continuing to demonstrate that you are, in fact, part of the general problem (i.e. Revivalist ignorance).

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 6:18 AMCopy HTML

 
Guys and gals, specifically Gal.

Can we cut out the interpersonal punch-outs in the forum and also in the chatbox? I thought it would subside after a few weeks, but you don't seem to show any sign of tapering it off. We all know very clearly how you feel about Ian, and I for one amongst others have heard enough. If you'd like to continue to point out Ian's personality disorders as you see them, then please feel free to use the Private Messaging facility.

If you can't ignore him or abide him, then I think you've said enough.

Unco
Luke735 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #189
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 12:44 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Uncoolman

 
Guys and gals, specifically Gal.

Can we cut out the interpersonal punch-outs in the forum and also in the chatbox? I thought it would subside after a few weeks, but you don't seem to show any sign of tapering it off. We all know very clearly how you feel about Ian, and I for one amongst others have heard enough. If you'd like to continue to point out Ian's personality disorders as you see them, then please feel free to use the Private Messaging facility.

If you can't ignore him or abide him, then I think you've said enough.

Unco


Well said unco!

I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know. None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense)

I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here. Its about what they preach!

Jesus is not coming back for "nice" people. He is coming back for "Obedient people"

Here's the point...

On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100%

I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language!  most here would say No!

I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO!

I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No!

On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No!

Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out. I believe he saw something worth paying for, something outward, Tongues! most here would say No!

Cornelius and ALL his house Spoke in Tongues as evidence. I believe it appropriate to expect the same for all to whom I preach. I know that they have recieved the Holy ghost "FOR I HEAR THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES" most here would say No!

Apollos was instructed in the way of the Lord but still needed to Speak in Tongues. I believe this is again significant. most here would say No!

John 4 say we MUST WORSHIP IN THE SPIRIT and Corinthians 14:14 says Prayer in the Spirit is Prayer in Tongues. most here would say No!

Jesus said in Mark 16 that believers would "Speak in Tongues" most here would say No!

When I say that those who oppose these things are going to be in huge trouble when Jesus returns I am actually being loving to do so.

This is not personal!

Ezekiel 33 say that I will have bloody hands if I fail to Warn you all.

Whether or not you heed my warnings is up to you. It doesn't affect me personally.

Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position. As such he has the greater judgement upon him. Make no mistake mine is a gospel that is confirmed in Power from God with the listed signs following. Think what you will of me and my "preaching" but the bottom line overview is this.

The gospel that many of you are falling for is nothing short of "enticing words of man's wisdom"


The gospel that I am talking about in in contrast "demonstration of the Spirit and of power"

Call it what you want but here's the facts: I was addicted to drugs, using ~$1100 worth a day in 1990. After asking God to fill me with his Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I ceased (that very second!) as did 22 of my friends.

In the past 19 years I have seen this repeated over and over and over again!

I have seen Baptist, Catholics, SDAa, Prespos, Unitings and even JWs leave there "enticing words of man's wisdom" doctrines for the power of the true gospel.

Paint it any colour you like, its still just enpty words that you are following compared with the power of the Spirit that I am. 

Why?    Because someone somewhere in your fellowship wronged you!

Most of you have not the faintest idea of real hardship.

My God! Look at the world we live in and the suffering.

No wonder when Jesus returns it says...2Th 1:6
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,  2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

To you who have put your trust in the "enticing words of man's wisdom"

You had better hope that you have not made a mistake because if you have. Whoe!!


As for me I do all the works that you guys do, help the poor, pray for the sick, Preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. I just don't accept the lukewarm idea that being born agian with the evidence of tongues is an optional extra.

Seriously when Paul said to the Corinthians "If ALL speak in Tongues" why did he say ALL? Hmm

If All couldn't why say ALL?

Oh whats the use!, your minds are made up aren't they? .....Thats right someone hurt your feelings, Some stupid Pastor did the wrong thing!

I have seen friends hang themselves, Shoot themselves and Overdose.

some of you have no idea of "Hurt"

Wake up!
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #190
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 3:50 PMCopy HTML

Tonyluke

I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know. 

Imagine that!

None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense) I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here. 

How lovely of you to bless them with your observations! 

Its about what they preach! Jesus is not coming back for "nice" people. He is coming back for "Obedient people" Here's the point... On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100%

He's coming back for Christians, and Christians with any sense oppose Llyod's doctrine outright due to the many reasons listed within this thread. It just ain't Christian. The fundamentals of the Gospel as you see them are out of order.

 I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language! most here would say No! I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO! I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No! On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No! Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out. 

No, tongues, or the versions thereof and interpretations therein that you espouse were not the common factor amongst these incidents. They've all been twisted to align with the ideas of a few nutters who had an idea. There are plenty of essays on this forum that can set you straight on that, should you ever be ready to listen.

This is not personal! Ezekiel 33 say that I will have bloody hands if I fail to Warn you all. Whether or not you heed my warnings is up to you. It doesn't affect me personally. Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position. 

Most of us have lived a long life already believing Lloyd's doctrine and then saw it crumble under logic and some informed Bible study.

Why? Because someone somewhere in your fellowship wronged you! Most of you have not the faintest idea of real hardship. 

You arrogant twat... "Most". You think you're some sort of prophet who takes pride in seeing more hardship than others? As if you had the magic powers to 'see' all. You think you can make these judgements? You believe some naughty pastor was the cause of intelligent people leaving your 'Holy' Revival church. The pastor of the RF I left was pretty much my best friend at the time. It wasn't easy to leave such close friends knowing that I'd not be able to keep company with them. After 17 years I'd come to realise that the belief system and doctrine didn't hold water. I don't think I can handle too many more of these self-righteous ramblings from you. I can only cringe so much.

Oh whats the use!, your minds are made up aren't they? .....Thats right someone hurt your feelings, Some stupid Pastor did the wrong thing! I have seen friends hang themselves, Shoot themselves and Overdose. some of you have no idea of "Hurt" Wake up!

As were our minds 'made up' when we only had the same information and beliefs that you cling onto now. 

-----------------------------------
I get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever I come back here and find  Tonyluke pedaling his wares, and I don't like him at all. Personally, I think he's a low-life in unawares... in his own eyes he believes himself to be righteous and learned and a good ol' boy. I think he's had quite enough rope. I'm hoping he can tie up his loose ends then crawl back to his phony forum at some point.
 
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #191
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 10:43 PMCopy HTML

Luke

I'll say two things again. smiley15

1) I left RF because I came to see their salvation doctrine is unbiblical and heretical. I have *not* been socially wronged beyond what's normal in human interaction, and of course I've done my fair share of that too.

2) Your focus on Ian is *silly*. In non-pentecostal Christendom your idea of tongues is considered heretical. In the majority of pentecostal Christendom your idea of tongues is considered heretical. In the part of pentecostal Christendom that thinks your take on tongues is right, they almost all think your take on the Godhead is heretical.

PS 'All' in 1 Co 14, particulaly in view of 1 Co 12, is hyperbole - your zeal is not "according to knowledge"
PPS You might believe things, but when they're not what the *bible* says, I'll keep giving them a miss
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #192
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 11:19 PMCopy HTML

TO GALIEN,
In the church I attend over the last 3 years I have been there and from what information i can gather from those that attend or have there is NO ABUSE and never has been in our parish. The love and support shown to us and our disabled child, including financial assistance has been given with kindness and no expectation or conditions put on us. I am very sorry you havnt found anything like it.

TO MOTH AND RUST.
I am not very good at expressing myself, but your comments to tonyluke echo my thoughts perfectly. Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't.

TO UNCOOLMAN
Thanks.

TO IAN.
Hi, I havnt had a chance to further develop our last discussions, but will as soon as possible. Its quite strange that our theme at church and Bible study at the moment is on the same scriptures. My little fellow is going in for surgery today so I will be quite busy. Currently I have him most of the time and my wife works more than I do. Please pray for him, its nothing serious but its always nice to have God's hand on these situations. thanks Rob.

¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:31/08/2009 11:41 PMCopy HTML

Tony,

I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know. None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense). I'd have put things a bit differently. Were I you, I would've stopped at "I do not know..."

I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here. Its about what they preach! Three things to consider: first, I'm not a Baptist. Second, what Christians "preach" is different to what Revivalists "prattle" (the reason being that Christians rely on the Word of the Lord. Revivalists, on the other hand, stick to the Word of the Lloyd). And third, I know plenty of Revivalists too, and I've got to say you present as being overly arrogant and condescending when assessed against the average.

On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100%. Yes, but you clearly don't know what the gospel is. My advice, then: try Scripture (it's all there, in black-and-red-and-white).

I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language!  most here would say No! Because such nonsense simply isn't biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO! Because such nonsense simply isn't biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No! Because such nonsense simply isn't biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No! Because such nonsense simply isn't biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out. I believe he saw something worth paying for, something outward, Tongues! most here would say No! "Tongues"? Could you please point out for me where the passage itself says that what he saw (note something visible) was your uncritical gibberish? It doesn't, hence I'd suggest that you ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

Cornelius and ALL his house Spoke in Tongues as evidence. I believe it appropriate to expect the same for all to whom I preach. I know that they have recieved the Holy ghost "FOR I HEAR THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES" most here would say No! As I've been wont to state over the years, "a text without its context is a pretext for a prooftext". Put simply, there is nothing in Acts 10 which resembles your Revivalist experience, your Revivalist message, or your Revivalist practice. Not a single thing. Ergo, you ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

Apollos was instructed in the way of the Lord but still needed to Speak in Tongues. I believe this is again significant. most here would say No! Really? Where in Scripture does it state what you presume to be the case with respect to Apollos and "tongues"? I'd suggest that you've invented "facts" in an attempt to shore up your biblically weak Revivalist position; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

John 4 say we MUST WORSHIP IN THE SPIRIT and Corinthians 14:14 says Prayer in the Spirit is Prayer in Tongues. most here would say No! Well, John 4 actually says nothing about "tongues" at all, and 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't state that what you infer is prayer "...in the Spirit" at all. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

Jesus said in Mark 16 that believers would "Speak in Tongues" most here would say No! The passage clearly indicates that Jesus didn't say that all believers would speak in "tongues", just as he didn't say that all believers would give evidence of any of the range of "signs" that the longer ending to the Gospel According to Mark describes. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.

When I say that those who oppose these things are going to be in huge trouble when Jesus returns I am actually being loving to do so. This is not personal! Bollocks. You're typical of most Revivalist pastor or pastor-wannabes that I've encountered. When all is said and done it's always personal, as you fellows simply don't like to be told (and shown) that you're completely wrong in what you maintain. It must be some sort of a "pride thing".

Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position. As such he has the greater judgement upon him. Make no mistake mine is a gospel that is confirmed in Power from God with the listed signs following. Think what you will of me and my "preaching" but the bottom line overview is this. I'd suggest that you simply don't like people placing their trust in someone who is clearly capable of providing sound biblical teaching. Does it makes you feel inadequate? Anyway, the only "power" that your false-gospel is capable of generating is the "supernatural" ability to repeat, "scooby dooby dooo" over and over. You don't "preach", you prate; you're clearly incapable of correctly interpreting God's Word for the edification of others, never mind presenting it with anything approaching authority, and you're apparently altogether incapable of convincing people that you've got "goods" worth "buying"!

The gospel that many of you are falling for is nothing short of "enticing words of man's wisdom" Best that you take that up with Christ and his apostles then, as we Christians preach the self-same message that they left to us.

The gospel that I am talking about in in contrast "demonstration of the Spirit and of power". Call it what you want but here's the facts: I was addicted to drugs, using ~$1100 worth a day in 1990. After asking God to fill me with his Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I ceased (that very second!) as did 22 of my friends. Really? Well then, I'm personally acquainted with several lads and lasses who claim exactly the same thing! Less the "tongues" bit, of course.

In the past 19 years I have seen this repeated over and over and over again! I have seen Baptist, Catholics, SDAa, Prespos, Unitings and even JWs leave there "enticing words of man's wisdom" doctrines for the power of the true gospel. Hmmm. In my 23 years as a Christian, I've seen a few hundred people come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and then through naught but the faithful sharing of the gospel and a modicum of personal discipleship. I've also seen a few hundred Revivalists wake up from their spiritual stupor, a large number of whom I've had the honour of introducing to Jesus Christ for the very first time. It seems, then, that the gospel that I "preach" is far more powerful, life transforming and spiritually effectual than is the nonsense that you and your associates prattle on about. For instance, my experience of the average congregation in the Australian RF is of about 22 people (children included). In most of our communities, if you were to say, "Revival Fellowship", the standard response would be, "who?" How remarkably unlike the early Church, who "turned the world upside down" (see Acts 17:6). What's different, do you think?

Paint it any colour you like, its still just enpty words that you are following compared with the power of the Spirit that I am. If your message is so powerful by comparison, why all the immorality, back-biting, covetousness and so forth that seems to plague your "style" of fellowship? Furthermore, if your message is so powerful by comparison, then why is having absolutely no effect on the broader community? You fellows don't even count for 0.001% of the Australian population!

As for me I do all the works that you guys do, help the poor, pray for the sick, Preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. I just don't accept the lukewarm idea that being born agian with the evidence of tongues is an optional extra. Being born again isn't an "optional extra". However, your learned and practiced "tongues" delusion doesn't even make it to the lofty heights of being either "optional", or an "extra".

Seriously when Paul said to the Corinthians "If ALL speak in Tongues" why did he say ALL? Hmm I wouldn't really expect you to understand the Greek literary device called hyperbole, but I'd suggest that you "Google" the word, and so grow a little in knowledge and wisdom. Anyway, I won't deign to respond to the remainder of your self-righteous and arrogant drivel. Enough really is enough. You've been warned, ergo "...your blood be upon your own head" (see Acts 18:6).

Goose.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:01/09/2009 1:11 AMCopy HTML

Just for the Record!


Shoes
 Said: "Despite being challenged to do so several times, he will not make the statement that: If you do not speak in tongues you will not be saved on the day of judgement".

This is because I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT!

Tongues is the outward evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Without tongues you have NOT recieved, been born of or baptised in the Holy Ghost.

With respect to "Judgement day" please read the text below:

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This " First Resurrection" is for the Church, the Body of Christ. ONLY THOSE WHO ARE BORN OF THE SPIRIT (WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES) WILL BE THERE.


Rev 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

From verse 12 onwards we see the Second Resurrection spoken of.

Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Just to summarise: If you do not speak in tongues then how do you know that YOU have recieved the Holy Ghost? I would suggest that you have no basis for this claim.
Without being Born of the Spirit then you will NOT be involved in the first resurrection. You will be therefore judged by your work...Vs 12-14

I cannot say whether you will be saved in this resurrection or not. This is not my place to do that.

This summary is why I cannot and will not presume to say "If you do not speak in tongues you will not be saved" How could anyone know that except God?

What I am saying is that Satan has filled this world with false doctrines on every corner. Just like the Prophets of Baal in Elijah's day. The Christianity that I preach is the God who answers by FIRE! specifically "Tongues of Fire" Acts 2:4 and "The Holy Ghost and FIRE" Matt 3:11

The very fact that most here say it is not essential, is evidence of the influence that Satan and 20 centuries of Compromise have had. The result; the "Luke Warm" Gospel so called promoted By the likes of Ian.

Think about this for a moment. Jesus came and died so that we could have access to the Father through his Spirit. This means that Satan doesn't mind if you go to church, he doesn't if you pray.

What his priority is; is to STOP you from being Born of the Spirit. Now if people are going to seek God and you want to stop them the best way to do this is to make them think that they have recieved that which they seek!

This will do two things:

1) Stop the individual from seeking God (because they already believe they have found him)

2) They would promote this "false doctrine" with all their might. Thus develope a following that caters for the flesh (which would be inviting to the natural man) and give them a sense of Pride. (in their own works)

Hope that explains my position a little better.

PS: In my previous post I am NOT saying I am any better or worse than anyone (in fact I am nothing in myself) But the position you guys find yourself is that you have been duped, hoodwinked, fooled and decieved.

God willing you will find you way back to "Right thinking" Not in the Revival Churches particularly but somewhere healthy.

God Bless

Luke

Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #195
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:01/09/2009 1:22 AMCopy HTML

Tony,

Are you thoroughly incapable of saying anything with less than 10,000 words?! I put it to you that given you can't comprehend the straightforward narrative of the Gospels correctly, what on earth gave you the idea that you could understand the apocalyptic and prophetic genres of the Revelation aright?

The simple fact of the matter is this: there is no biblical basis or warrant for your idiosyncratic Revivalist beliefs. What you present as "gospel" didn't even exist prior to the 1920s. These facts have been established over and over; but for whatever reason, you seem blinded to the truth.

Goose.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Luke735 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #196
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:12/11/2009 12:32 PMCopy HTML

Hi there all you ex-revivalists, I just thought I would say hi and let you all know I am doing very well both physically and spiritually.

The Lord is blessing our endeavours and we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)

As I continue on my journey away from the RF I am saddened that sooo many on this site who have left their various Revival group (RF, RCI or GRC) have been conned into compromising the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to believe another gospel. Obviously a "Luke warm version" shame on you of whom this is true!

Ian sure has found his own little cultish home on this site hasn't he!

That said; I hope that as time wears on and his fruits become the more apparent, that more and more will see the pitiful sickness that so pervadesthis site.

Like I always say. Satan doesn't sit outside the Church and throw stones. He walks up to the pulpit and says "Thus says the Lord" Doesn't he Ian!!!!

Bye for now

Luke 7:35
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:12/11/2009 11:23 PMCopy HTML

Yo Luke

Ian sure has found his own little cultish home on this site hasn't he!

That's pretty much the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

A week or two back I tried to register as an advanced member of your forum, 'cos I became aware of a post about Ian, and I was interested to see what it said. Your security required registering as an advanced member to view the thread. Rather than play hide'n'seek I tried to register as me, and your webmaster formally rejected me yesterday.

You can see what's written about you here, and you even have an opportunity to post, yet you refuse to let the public even see what you allow to be posted about Ian.

This is the first time I've said *anything* about this, and if you weren't such a hypocrite I would probably *still* haven't said anything about it.

... we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)

Well if you're preaching that 'ol RF salvation message, you're preaching what the bible calls "another gospel" and while you might be doing OK spiritually, you're in *deep* doo-doo Spiritually ... as well as being a hypocrite.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/11/2009 3:13 AMCopy HTML

LOL

The lukewarm 'Legion' - Luke

This Luke guy reminds me of David Brent from the UK television series, 'The Office', or Michael Scott from the American version.

A key aspect of the character of Brent is his obliviousness to how other people actually see him, causing him to lash out whenever the veil of ignorance and vanity he maintains is pierced."

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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:13/11/2009 5:16 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Luke735



The Lord is blessing our endeavours and we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)


Luke 7:35

If I was Ian, I'm sure I could achieve the same result if I took a platoon of soldiers for a bivouac weekend in a cow paddock that had been crowded with stud prime breeding bulls... bulls only do two things: eat grass and you know what...

so putting it simply, I find little credibility in your statement..



Ciao Goose

.

 
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.

Date Posted:01/02/2010 11:31 AMCopy HTML


Hi there all:

In an earlier post I said....

"As I continue on my journey away from the RF I am saddened that sooo many on this site who have left their various Revival group (RF, RCI or GRC) have been conned into compromising the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to believe another gospel. Obviously a "Luke warm version" shame on you of whom this is true!"

I just wanted to clarify what I meant. We are all aware of the verses in Galatians chapter 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

When I say this I do realise that many, if not most here do preach the part of the message of the gospel.
Let me explain...


The Gospel is threefold. The first is described below and can be
described as "Phase One" the Death, Burial, Resurrection and Manifestation of Jesus victorious over death.



1Corinthians 15:1
MOREOVER, BRETHREN, I DECLARE UNTO YOU THE GOSPEL WHICH I PREACHED UNTO YOU, WHICH ALSO YE HAVE RECEIVED, AND WHEREIN YE STAND; 1Co 15:2 BY WHICH ALSO YE ARE SAVED, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how THAT CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures; 1Co 15:4 And THAT HE WAS BURIED, AND THAT HE ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY according to the Scriptures: 1Co 15:5 And THAT HE WAS SEEN OF CEPHAS, THEN OF THE TWELVE: 1Co 15:6 After THAT, HE WAS SEEN OF ABOVE FIVE HUNDRED BRETHREN AT ONCE; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.1Co 15:7 After that, HE WAS SEEN OF JAMES; THEN OF ALL THE APOSTLES.

Looking again at each of the elements of the Gospel recorded in 1Corinthians 15:1-7 we see the following:

1.      Death (that Christ died for our sins)

2.      Burial (that he was buried)

3.      Resurrection (that he rose again the third day)

4.      Manifestation (that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles)

Many today freely acknowledge these verses and believe that Jesus Christ did all these things. Churches teach that confession of a belief in God is all that is needed to be saved.  What many do not realise is that we are commanded to “OBEY THE GOSPEL” by following in Jesus’ footsteps. Just as Jesus died and was buried; we are called to repent (change our direction) and die (submit our lives to God and to bury our old lives in the waters of Baptism) Further we are commanded to be filled with the Holy Ghost and walk in “newness of life”.

The second is our individual response to hearing the gospel by Repenting (changing our mind and dying to ourselves) Being Baptised (Being Buried with him in the likeness of his death) and being filled with the Holy Ghost (being resurrected in new life by the power of the Spirit) and lastly the signs following confirmation of our right standing with God through signs and wonders including the initial ouward manifestation of speaking in tongues.


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6:3 KNOW YE NOT, THAT SO MANY OF US AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?

Romans 6:4 THEREFORE WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

Romans 6:5 FOR IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, WE SHALL BE ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION: Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:9  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:10  For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

The way we are to obey the gospel is to follow God’s directive to:

1.      Repent i.e. Turn around in your thinking and die to your old way of life (death)

2.      Be baptised in Water (Burial)

3.      Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Resurrection)

4.      Walk in the Spirit, in fellowship with the Body of Christ with signs following. (Manifestation)

This gospel is what was preached in the early church... In Acts 2:36-47 we read….

Acts 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, (DEATH) and be baptized (BURIAL) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (RESURRECTION) Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; Act 2:45  And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Act 2:46  And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (MANIFESTATION) Act 2:47  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The third stage or phase of the gospel is that once a person has "believed" the gospel and responded appropriately as described above (re: Acts 2:37-47) we then must OBEY the gospel.

We do this by dying daily to our sinful nature (death) we then must bury our lives in Christ (Burial) and walk in newness of the Spirit (resurrection) in so doing we then respond to the prompting of the Spirit and allow ourselves to be changed into his image (Manifestaion)

Romans 10:13 FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED. Rom 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Rom 10:15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! Rom 10:16  BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? Rom 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

1Pe 4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17  FOR THE TIME IS COME THAT JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: AND IF IT FIRST BEGIN AT US, WHAT SHALL THE END BE OF THEM THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD? 1Pe 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19  Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

2Th 1:5  Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 2Th 1:6  Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN THE LORD JESUS SHALL BE REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, 2Th 1:8  IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: 2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Question: HOW DO WE “OBEY” THE GOSPEL

 

1Th 1:4  Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 1Th 1:5  FOR OUR GOSPEL CAME NOT UNTO YOU IN WORD ONLY, BUT ALSO IN POWER, AND IN THE HOLY GHOST, AND IN MUCH ASSURANCE; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Php 1:5  For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Php 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Php 1:7  Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and IN THE DEFENCE AND CONFIRMATION OF THE GOSPEL, YE ALL ARE PARTAKERS OF MY GRACE.


All three phases of the gospel constitute the "Good News" some may have done phase one and been told that they have obeyed the gospel in so doing. I would urge you all to think again. Ask yourself "How can we "Obey the Gospel"?

May God lead you all into truth.

Luke 7:35  aka "Goose" 

RCI prophesies
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