small question for Ιανος

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Title: small question for Ιανος

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Date Posted：08/11/2011 7:24 AMCopy HTML

Howdy Ian,

Recently you stated real cool somewhere that Romans 10:9 "Jesus is Lord" .. Can actually translate as "Yeshua is Yahweh." but that's fine by me.. However the text states "κυριον Ἱησουν " which is accusative - on both nouns so how do you draw this conclusion from the Hebrew ??

blessings

Eric

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：08/11/2011 8:39 AMCopy HTML

Eric,

If I may put my two pence worth in, A group I once was involved in, ‘Assemblies of Yahweh in the Messiah’, (a ‘proper’ name group) state that the name of Yahshua (Jesus) is a combination of the Hebrew names YWWH (God, meaning eternally existent one, ‘I AM’) and Yoshua (Joshua, meaning 'God the Savior'. See Matthew 1:20-21.)

Whether there is any connection to what you are seeking or not.

Ralph.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.

Didaktikon Share to: #2

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：08/11/2011 9:49 AMCopy HTML

Hello, Eric.

Recently you stated real cool somewhere that Romans 10:9 "Jesus is Lord" ... Can actually translate as "Yeshua is Yahweh." Not quite. What I said was that to confess, 'Jesus is Lord' in the 1st century Judeo-Christian context, was to ascribe to Jesus the majesty and dignity ordinarily accorded to God, the Father. In a strictly Roman context, the same confession was explicitly counter cultural given that 'Caesar was Lord', and he certainly brooked no competitors to his dignity or majesty! ;)

Please keep in mind that in the Septuagint (the Bible of the early Church) יהוה‎ most frequently was translated κύριος (or κύριον in the accusative case). However the text states "κυριον Ἱησουν " which is accusative - on both nouns so how do you draw this conclusion from the Hebrew ?? That both 'Lord' and 'Jesus' appear in the accusative case isn't surprising given that the combination obviously functions as the direct object of the verbal action in the clause. Consequently it couldn't be written any other way in Romans 10:9.

Likely as not you already knew that 'Jesus is Lord' is written ישו הוא האדון in Hebrew. However, you probably didn't know that 'Jesus is Lord' is written 'Yeshu ha MarYah' in Aramaic (I've used English transliteration given that noone reading this is likely to have a Syriac font loaded on their computers). 'MarYah' is a compound word derived from 'Mar' (i.e. 'Lord') and 'Yah(weh)', the personal name of God. It's not surprising, then, that the Aramaic New Testament can record: “For today in the city of David there has been born for you a Saviour, who is Lord-Yah the Messiah” (Luke 2:11).

Appreciating all of this provides considerable depth and clarity to Paul's teaching about who Jesus is :)

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Didaktikon Share to: #3

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：08/11/2011 9:54 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Ralph.

Geez but you've kept company with some real 'nutters' over the years!

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：08/11/2011 11:36 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian,

Ha ha yes, but truth be known I only went along with them for a little while to humour friends of my wife whilst they were visiting here from the Philippines. I was fresh out of GRC at the time. You can imagine the crap that went on from both sides. I was well armed with 20 odd years of Revivalist fantasy and them with their JW+ style antics. The camping at Wye River was good though when they were celebrating the 'Feast of Tabernacles'. We had to build our own "booths" to live in (I'm sure the parks authority wouldn't have been too impressed had they known we cut down lots of young saplings. ) and singing and relaxing and lots to eat.

Ralph.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：09/11/2011 12:26 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

A group I once was involved in, ‘Assemblies of Yahweh in the Messiah’, (a ‘proper’ name group) state that the name of Yahshua (Jesus) is a combination of the Hebrew names YWWH (God [Yahweh] , meaning eternally existent one, ‘I AM’) and Yoshua (Joshua, meaning 'God the Savior'. See Matthew 1:20-21.)

Fww, is there any merit to that at all?

Ralph

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.

Didaktikon Share to: #6

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：09/11/2011 2:52 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Ralph.

Fww, is there any merit to that at all? Nope, not so much as a shred :)

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

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Re：small question for Ιανος

Date Posted：09/11/2011 3:29 AMCopy HTML

Thanks Ian,

It figures.

Ralph

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.

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Title: small question for Ιανος
Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Reviving from Revival > The Bible, Beliefs and Faiths	Go to subcategory：

Ex_Member
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Date Posted：08/11/2011 7:24 AMCopy HTML Howdy Ian, Recently you stated real cool somewhere that Romans 10:9 "Jesus is Lord" .. Can actually translate as "Yeshua is Yahweh." but that's fine by me.. However the text states "κυριον Ἱησουν " which is accusative - on both nouns so how do you draw this conclusion from the Hebrew ?? blessings Eric
Biblianut	Share to: #1
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5380 Posts：218 From：Australia Register：30/11/2010 9:39 PM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：08/11/2011 8:39 AMCopy HTML Eric, If I may put my two pence worth in, A group I once was involved in, ‘Assemblies of Yahweh in the Messiah’, (a ‘proper’ name group) state that the name of Yahshua (Jesus) is a combination of the Hebrew names YWWH (God, meaning eternally existent one, ‘I AM’) and Yoshua (Joshua, meaning 'God the Savior'. See Matthew 1:20-21.) Whether there is any connection to what you are seeking or not. Ralph. I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Didaktikon	Share to: #2
Rank：Noobmeister Score：421 Posts：13 From：Australia Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：08/11/2011 9:49 AMCopy HTML Hello, Eric. Recently you stated real cool somewhere that Romans 10:9 "Jesus is Lord" ... Can actually translate as "Yeshua is Yahweh." Not quite. What I said was that to confess, 'Jesus is Lord' in the 1st century Judeo-Christian context, was to ascribe to Jesus the majesty and dignity ordinarily accorded to God, the Father. In a strictly Roman context, the same confession was explicitly counter cultural given that 'Caesar was Lord', and he certainly brooked no competitors to his dignity or majesty! ;) Please keep in mind that in the Septuagint (the Bible of the early Church) יהוה‎ most frequently was translated κύριος (or κύριον in the accusative case). However the text states "κυριον Ἱησουν " which is accusative - on both nouns so how do you draw this conclusion from the Hebrew ?? That both 'Lord' and 'Jesus' appear in the accusative case isn't surprising given that the combination obviously functions as the direct object of the verbal action in the clause. Consequently it couldn't be written any other way in Romans 10:9. Likely as not you already knew that 'Jesus is Lord' is written ישו הוא האדון in Hebrew. However, you probably didn't know that 'Jesus is Lord' is written 'Yeshu ha MarYah' in Aramaic (I've used English transliteration given that noone reading this is likely to have a Syriac font loaded on their computers). 'MarYah' is a compound word derived from 'Mar' (i.e. 'Lord') and 'Yah(weh)', the personal name of God. It's not surprising, then, that the Aramaic New Testament can record: “For today in the city of David there has been born for you a Saviour, who is Lord-Yah the Messiah” (Luke 2:11). Appreciating all of this provides considerable depth and clarity to Paul's teaching about who Jesus is :) Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Didaktikon	Share to: #3
Rank：Noobmeister Score：421 Posts：13 From：Australia Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：08/11/2011 9:54 AMCopy HTML Hi, Ralph. Geez but you've kept company with some real 'nutters' over the years! Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Biblianut	Share to: #4
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5380 Posts：218 From：Australia Register：30/11/2010 9:39 PM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：08/11/2011 11:36 AMCopy HTML Hi Ian, Ha ha yes, but truth be known I only went along with them for a little while to humour friends of my wife whilst they were visiting here from the Philippines. I was fresh out of GRC at the time. You can imagine the crap that went on from both sides. I was well armed with 20 odd years of Revivalist fantasy and them with their JW+ style antics. The camping at Wye River was good though when they were celebrating the 'Feast of Tabernacles'. We had to build our own "booths" to live in (I'm sure the parks authority wouldn't have been too impressed had they known we cut down lots of young saplings. ) and singing and relaxing and lots to eat. Ralph. I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Biblianut	Share to: #5
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5380 Posts：218 From：Australia Register：30/11/2010 9:39 PM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：09/11/2011 12:26 AMCopy HTML Ian, A group I once was involved in, ‘Assemblies of Yahweh in the Messiah’, (a ‘proper’ name group) state that the name of Yahshua (Jesus) is a combination of the Hebrew names YWWH (God [Yahweh] , meaning eternally existent one, ‘I AM’) and Yoshua (Joshua, meaning 'God the Savior'. See Matthew 1:20-21.) Fww, is there any merit to that at all? Ralph I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Didaktikon	Share to: #6
Rank：Noobmeister Score：421 Posts：13 From：Australia Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：09/11/2011 2:52 AMCopy HTML Hi, Ralph. Fww, is there any merit to that at all? Nope, not so much as a shred :) Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Biblianut	Share to: #7
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5380 Posts：218 From：Australia Register：30/11/2010 9:39 PM	Re：small question for Ιανος Date Posted：09/11/2011 3:29 AMCopy HTML Thanks Ian, It figures. Ralph I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.