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mf doom
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Date Posted:12/11/2005 7:28 AMCopy HTML

just thought i'd share some of my good news with you lot after 23 or so years in the revival parties, my mother has finally left! for a while she has been trying to tell the pastors that their talks are always negative, making the congregation feel condemned rather than uplifted... they ignored her... so now they don't get her tithes! anyway, i'm a really happy man and just thought i'd share it with you... now i can go 'all-out'. they still do the tongues and spiritual gifts things but i guess she wouldn't have gone to a place that didn't have them, so it's another step towards freedom anyway. just wondering, MR JONAH, if you still go to church and what you think about tongues and spiritual gifts in general?
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
mf doom Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:12/11/2005 7:28 AMCopy HTML

just thought i'd share some of my good news with you lot

after 23 or so years in the revival parties, my mother has finally left!

for a while she has been trying to tell the pastors that their talks are always negative, making the congregation feel condemned rather than uplifted... they ignored her... so now they don't get her tithes!

anyway, i'm a really happy man and just thought i'd share it with you...

now i can go 'all-out'.

they still do the tongues and spiritual gifts things but i guess she wouldn't have gone to a place that didn't have them, so it's another step towards freedom anyway.

just wondering, MR JONAH, if you still go to church and what you think about tongues and spiritual gifts in general?
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:12/11/2005 11:54 AMCopy HTML

Great news about your Mum.  Really!!!

I left the RCs WAAAAAY back in 1988.  I started church again in early 1991 and attended regularly until late 1999.  Then I stopped.

I am no longer a Xian at all.  I am open to the possibility of a 'God' but am also open to the possibility of there not being one either.  As H&S has said, there seems to be a lot of evidence to support some kind of spiritual dimension, at least according to TV shows like, "World's Scariest Ghosts" and things like that.

What do I think about spiritual gifts?  I think the Revival Centre kind are purely drivel.  There is nothing to show that any of what they call the  voice gifts' are any more than just people regurgitating Revival Centre philosophies after communion.  But I have also seen unbelieving doctors' testimonies of people having been healed miraculously (outside the Revival Centres) so I cannot dismiss the miraculous as easily as I might like to.

But why ask me?  I am curious...

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Re:finally!

Date Posted:12/11/2005 1:11 PMCopy HTML

That is great news!!!!!!! Lord, please let my sister see Your truth and leave RCI

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:12/11/2005 3:13 PMCopy HTML

 



they still do the tongues and spiritual gifts things but i guess she wouldn't have gone to a place that didn't have them, so it's another step towards freedom anyway.



So she left Revival and has gone somewhere else that do a similar thing...? where is she now? confused

Click here for a previous discussion on the gifts

 

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:12/11/2005 9:16 PMCopy HTML

About 95% of the usage of the gifts that were practised at my old RCI were of their own minds and were merely displays of their fleshly ability.... and always the same few trying to out do each other every sunday afternoon main meeting ..... The Biblical solution to this is to judge the gift but if you did that, you got told off pretty quickly especially by Victor Samoilenko

anonymous 

mf doom Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:13/11/2005 6:21 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : MrJonah



But why ask me? I am curious...





well, i have noticed you using scripture and carrying out (kinda) detailed analyses using scripture etc.. Plus i noticed that a lot of people that have left and are using this forum seem to be 'on the sleeve' christians in some way, shape of form.

basically not sure who's who yet and most of our opinions are spread throughout the whole forum - sometimes you want to hear a summarised version, on a particular topic at a particular point in time... and it was my curiosity too.

in regards to my first reason... it was either that you were still a 'christian' or full-time bible student or you know enough about the bible, and think that the most effective way for people to judge for themselves is to actually read something properly.

i would agree and i have noticed your patience. it's funny how a lot of common church practices and doctrines cannot be unequivocally endorsed by scripture, yet people still can't see that even if you take the time to show them the scriptures concerned.

plus you are always around, will reply if someone needs one and i reackon you and h&s are pretty good blokes! well, your cyber-personalities anyway... plus i reckon one day we could work on some fun projects in future!

in summary, i guess i respect your opinion in some way. plus i need to know this information. actually need the advice in a way.... it's already taken a lot of effort to see my mum come this far. she's not ready to let go of spiritual gifts yet. she still relies on the bible.

spoke to her since her first meeting at the new place. the first talk was about bruising the sheep... along the lines of what the RF was doing (bruising). there were a few old faces from the revivalists, which is always good for a smooth transition.
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:14/11/2005 12:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : avenger dude

well, i have noticed you using scripture and carrying out (kinda) detailed analyses using scripture etc.. Plus i noticed that a lot of people that have left and are using this forum seem to be 'on the sleeve' christians in some way, shape of form.

Yeah, whilst I don't believe the Bible to be the 'Word of God' or anything, a lot of people here do, so it helps to utilise it to make a point.

in regards to my first reason... it was either that you were still a 'christian' or full-time bible student or you know enough about the bible, and think that the most effective way for people to judge for themselves is to actually read something properly.

I was a fundamentalist Xian for years, even after the RCI.  I also have a Bible College degree which does very little for me now except that it is an Arts degree and helps me get work visas in foreign countries.  I know my Bible and can recall enough of it to argue a point.  I find it funny that these cultists claim to be Bible based adn yet really don't know the Bible beyond their proof-texts.  I suppose the cultists could also find it funny that I know the Bible so well but don't believe it anymore.  I suspect they dismiss my arguments based on this inspite of what arguments I bring.

i would agree and i have noticed your patience. it's funny how a lot of common church practices and doctrines cannot be unequivocally endorsed by scripture, yet people still can't see that even if you take the time to show them the scriptures concerned.

Thanks.  But you know, I am really getting tired of all this Bible debating. To be honest, I think a lot of the contradictions and seeming paradoxes in the NT are actually explainable in that the different writers had different opinions and even different beliefs.  To try to make an argument using a text from Matthew, one from Mark or Luke, etc is going about it the wrong way.  It's better to see what Mark says, what Luke says, what Matthew says, etc.  Once you stop trying to harmonise the gospels and epistles with one another then it makes more sense.  They were different factions of the church and all had different motives and teachings that they were trying to push over and above other teachings.  The belief that the Bible and even the early church all believed and taught the same thing is pure crap.  They didn't.  John has the disciples recieving the HS when Jesus breathed on them after the ressurection, but Luke has a whiz-bang tongue talking Pentecost.  Xians then try to harmonise and explain the difference.  But I don't believe that they can.  John has his beliefs and account of what happened and Luke has his...and never the twain shall meet.  St Paul says salvation is by faith and not works and then St James comes along and says "nuh-ah, faith without works is dead."  And Xians try to make these two contradictory statements fit.  Sorry, but they don't.  They are opposed to one another.  That was why Martin Luther wanted to chuck the book of James out of the Bible.  He called it the Epistle of Straw.  I bet St Paul might have said something like that too...if he even ever read it or knew who James was.

plus you are always around, will reply if someone needs one and i reackon you and h&s are pretty good blokes! well, your cyber-personalities anyway... plus i reckon one day we could work on some fun projects in future!

How nice of you to say.  Thanks. 


in summary, i guess i respect your opinion in some way. plus i need to know this information. actually need the advice in a way.... it's already taken a lot of effort to see my mum come this far. she's not ready to let go of spiritual gifts yet. she still relies on the bible.

I would suggest you just try to assist her in getting back into life and the real world.  Don't challenge her heart-felt beliefs too soon.  Just be patient with her.  I reckon you should spend more time loving her than trying to change her...even for her own sake.  No point trying to argue against the Bible with her.  Use the Bible to make your points, even if you don';t believe it.   There is a lot of good stuff in the Bible about love, grace, kindness and mercy.  Show her that stuff and love her.  She's your Mum after all.


spoke to her since her first meeting at the new place. the first talk was about bruising the sheep... along the lines of what the RF was doing (bruising). there were a few old faces from the revivalists, which is always good for a smooth transition.

Where's she going now?



 

mf doom Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:finally!

Date Posted:14/11/2005 11:55 AMCopy HTML

i agree with the bit about loving her, using the bible and not challenging her beliefs. cheers.

about where she's going... i have no idea of the name ... i guess the people's names are not that important either....


 just in case people didn't know, i'm pretty sure there's HEAPS of little offshoots/splinters/breakaways/whatever you choose to call them that continue some of the main traditions of the revivalists... like the old gifts etc.

the problem is, someone makes it out to a 'better' group of people; but the fact that they are better and STILL aren't completely different reinforces those same practices, much deeper into the minds and hearts of the people who leave (i fear). hope you get me, don't really have the time right now to word it better!

so in order to blend back into the world, one either has to go cold turkey somehow or go through a series of churches getting milder each time (these are not the only two options, i'm sure, but)... it's hard to picture my mother ever going to a church that doesn't operate the gifts... i would have to find out actually, but that is what is SO SPECIAL about her 'whole new understanding of the word' which saved her.... denying it would make her a liar... contemplating it would make her fear committing blasphemy.

in a way she might has well have stayed put... of course if it wasn't for the fact that a couple of the pastors at the old place really were dickheads (no offence to them if they are reading this...[you will understand one day when you wake up] )

church has done a lot of good for her, nonetheless and it seems as though she really wouldn't have a purpose in life without it. nor a pastime. and her (awesome) kids are not with her right now.

anyway... these are the things that go through my head! i AM happy, but i am getting tempted to be involved in this next phase of her awareness...

i should leave it to her... she's a grown woman (and strong)... but i am re-living the 'leaving process' as she lives it. it's hard not to, out of love, but i guess that's just my problem and i gotta let go...

just can't help but wonder whether my conversations with her were the straws that broke the camel's back... (she had been thinking about leaving for two years)... even though i believe i am doing a good thing, if something happens to her mind (and/or "spirit") i would probably be pissed off with myself forever... i guess it could be guilt or love...

but the type of love that is reminiscent of the 'colonial' males toward their wives and mothers... you protect them from the 'harsh truth' and keep them in that world of naivity as you nobly fulfil your duty!

anyway.... that's all from me for now... nice to purge again... ahhh! that feels better...

if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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