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rebelsister
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Date Posted:10/12/2004 6:48 PMCopy HTML

I was just wondering people's thoughts on kids being badgered to speak in tongues. Before I left, my kids had been 'encouraged' to 'seek the Lord' to receive the HS. My eldest spoke in tongues when he was about 10, my middle at8 and the younger was being harrassed continually to 'seek' even though he was only 7. Some kids as young as 4 had supposedly received. My eldest is now 17 and only recently queried why he was told he had 'received' when all he said was 'shitty shitty shitty'. At the time of course, one did not argue with the pastors and the kids were caught up in the experience of being baptised and being like their friends, but i always felt uneasy about their 'tongues'. My youngest often used to be frightened because he would miss out when the Lord returned if he didn't receive. Thankfully he was a little slower than the others and we left before he could feel 'left out'.I also used to wonder why it was that when adults 'received' they were not allowed to sin any more or they were in fear of hell fire. Yet kids who had received would often lie or steal or swear (including pastors kids) but they didnt have to worry about 'being perfect'. No one could ever give me a straight answer on this. My queries on kids understanding what they were seeking for were met with 'we dont question the Lord's will'.I would be interested to know the thoughts of other posters on this. Does anyone else have kids that were put through the same stress, or were you put through it yourself?I also used to wonder why tongues was 'the sign' of salvation when the person exhibited no 'fruit' of the Spirit. Yet others outside RCI who had abundant fruit, but no tongues were classed as unsaved. Thoughts anyone???
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:10/12/2004 8:03 PMCopy HTML

At RF, my daughter prayed for the Holy Spirit with some oversight, without me knowing... she rushed up to me afterwards and told me, with much excitement, that she received the Spirit.  But the oversight shook their heads and said "no she hasn't, the tongues wasnt clearly evident"... I believed the oversight's judgement over hers and as a result I had to tell her that she did not experience salvation and that's what I tried to do. I couldn't, because, all of a sudden, I didn't believe it...

16 years of study and belief and indoctrination unravelled around me almost immediately, I looked around the hall, started to feel like I was choking. I felt like I was in a room full of strangers. It was horrifying and exciting at the same time.

I felt the Holy Spirit jump within me yelling out "Yes... that's it, keep going - you've reached the next level" Desparately I turned to scripture and to people who's grasp of the word I respected. It is Jesus that saves us not the Spirit. He is the ONLY mediator between us and the father. He gives us the spirit to teach us and give us power.

Vocalising unintelligible mutterings... yeah big miracle.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:14/12/2004 11:16 AMCopy HTML

Yes I was pressured when I was 10 years old. And yes I supposedly spoke in tongues. Funnily enought though, I have no desire to pray in tongues now....seems strange when you consider that if you truly spoke in tongues that you'd do it all the time. Now I'm starting to doubt I ever did actually speak in tongues.

As for other christians displaying the fruits. Well that's how they should be known...that's what the bible says. "By their fruits you shall be known" not by their speaking in tongues or the ability to perfom miriacles.
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:14/12/2004 7:47 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Merry Menagerie

Yes I was pressured when I was 10 years old. And yes I supposedly spoke in tongues. Funnily enought though, I have no desire to pray in tongues now....seems strange when you consider that if you truly spoke in tongues that you'd do it all the time. Now I'm starting to doubt I ever did actually speak in tongues.As for other christians displaying the fruits. Well that's how they should be known...that's what the bible says. "By their fruits you shall be known" not by their speaking in tongues or the ability to perfom miriacles.

I know that you will probably just dismiss this seeing as I am not a Christian anymore but...

I came to realisation that my RCI tongues experience was crap while in the AOG.  There were quite a few ex-RCI people I knew who also felt the same way at various stages.  The whole thing is just so contrived to be anything more than a learned or copiable behaviour. 

Then, while in the AOG, I began to research the opposing Christian points of view ot what is known as the 20th century tongues phenomena.  There are a lot of Christians who do not believe that the modern tongues experience is anything like the Biblical model.  There have also been some seriousl studies by psychologists and the like and the whole thing comes up lacking. 

I know that it is often a big leap for ex-RCI people to reject tongues as legitimate seeing as we held it in such high regard for so long while in the group.  But many people do come to this conclusion even while remaining Christians.  I don't believe it is of Satan or demons or anyting like that, and I don't believe that is necessarily a bad thing either.  I think it is a harmless, pointless waste of time to be frank.  And I thought that while still in the Church.  I don't campaign against tongues but I do think people owe it to themselves to truly hear what opponents of tongues have to say.  One good book on the subject is 'Charismatic Chaos'.  You can order it through most Christian bookshops.  There is also some good stuff online.

Worth a look...but only when you're ready.

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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:14/12/2004 7:49 PMCopy HTML

The above post was mine.  Sorry, I forgot to login.
Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:15/12/2004 2:15 PMCopy HTML

Well my theory, which is based on absolutely no phsycological education whatsoever is... how you received the the gift of tongues is the key. In my case, and in the cases of most other RCI children (and adults), it's a learned thing and brought on by pressure. You start to stutter saying hallelujah over and over and suddenly you have the people around you going "That's it, just let it go" so you do...you let it go and voila - you now speak in tongues. But I do know in some cases, especially in other churches where they don't have people on top of you all the time and pressuring you to perform, tongues just happens - no hallelujahs needed. I believe that in these cases, where tongues is given freely without necessarily being sought for and where the person just opens their mouth and out it comes etc...is the real deal.
steamylee Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:27/06/2006 11:45 AMCopy HTML

i started "speaking in tounges" when i had just turned six, but then my dad was pastor at the time, so i was expected too, as i was perceived as the poster perfect pastors daughter. altho i was filled with the "holy spirit" i was never disciplined by oversight for anything naughty i did as i was "perfect". now i dont really speak in tounges at all, altho sometimes when i do i do get comfort from it, but now i wonder whether that is because it is of god, or is it something that i have trained myself to believe??
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:27/06/2006 4:25 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : steamylee

i started "speaking in tounges" when i had just turned six, but then my dad was pastor at the time, so i was expected too, as i was perceived as the poster perfect pastors daughter. altho i was filled with the "holy spirit" i was never disciplined by oversight for anything naughty i did as i was "perfect". now i dont really speak in tounges at all, altho sometimes when i do i do get comfort from it, but now i wonder whether that is because it is of god, or is it something that i have trained myself to believe??

Hi, thanks for posting! Nice to hear someone from the Great South (Western) lands. Pastor's daughters always seemed to get a bad rap. Must've been a lot of pressure to be a good and proper daughter of an enlightened leader of a Revival church.

now i dont really speak in tounges at all, altho sometimes when i do i do get comfort from it, but now i wonder whether that is because it is of god

I suppose if one believes in God then everything is of God... unless it's of the Nemisis who is hardly an equal, should he exist. If I were God, I'd be squishing Lucifer pretty quicksmart; I mean why put up with all this evil shit? Move on. It's a cesspit down here! It's written that God gave people languages the others couldn't understand at the Tower of Babel as a punishment, yet more recently he supposedly gave us new and unintelligible languages as a blessing. Go figure!

or is it something that i have trained myself to believe??

Me, I'm going with the latter. The ability to inanely babble (Babel?) in gibberish is perhaps the most overly-rated miracle in the history of miracles since Adam did the 'hide the nose, who's got the nose?' trick to Cain and Abel. 

Believing something is easy. Unbelieving it is hard.The problem is that each of us has our own truth, and this is achieved by a number of means. In some cases it is nothing more than a belief, and it must be accepted by others that this is valid for the person who believes. Although we may challenge the belief, it is extremely rare for people to simply drop one belief system for another.

We don't get many posts here lately... I think everythings been argued and No-one wins these arguments - ever. They are un-winnable, since no-one can convince anyone against their will. All that anyone can do is to explain in a reasoned and (hopefully) rational manner that they believe that the claims are false, giving sound reasoning and clear details of the facts as they are understood. In any case, the 'true believer' will not be swayed by any argument.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
steamylee Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:28/06/2006 10:48 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : HolyandSinful

Pastor's daughters always seemed to get a bad rap. Must've been a lot of pressure to be a good and proper daughter of an enlightened leader of a Revival church.

To be honest it wasnt that bad, altho in saying that they never actually caught me doing anything wrong...

 

If I were God, I'd be squishing Lucifer pretty quicksmart; I mean why put up with all this evil shit?

Personally if it was me, i would let lucifer live, think off how entertaining it would be watching!! it would be just like watching a real life mix of days of our lives, the office, CSI, and south park!! lol

 

Believing something is easy. Unbelieving it is hard

that is very true, since i left RCI when i was 16 (two years ago) i still have their beliefs drilled into my head, and it drives me insane!! how did you all get rid of the so called "christian" mentality??

 

 

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:28/06/2006 6:34 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : steamylee

that is very true, since i left RCI when i was 16 (two years ago) i still have their beliefs drilled into my head, and it drives me insane!! how did you all get rid of the so called "christian" mentality??

Not long passed the two year mark for us.

Kudos to you for getting out before you developed wrinkles

The judgemental christian mentality took us a while to shake off but the concept that we are equal with the rest of the planet is very liberating. Much of the tripe christians go on with makes me a bit ill nowadays... so sachrine and nauseating but I'm trying to be more respectful of people who are certainly allowed to believe whatever they like. I do hate that exclusive bullshit they go on with. They spend so much energy trying to drag people back to their halls for salvation, trying to save the world all the whilst seperating themselves from life and humanity. Xtian music, xtian movies, xtian chocolate... they may as well all pack up and go to an island somewhere. Jurassic Ark or something stupid.

They think themselves to have cornered the market in ethics and morals but they're kidding themselves. Their attitude towards the billions of people who dont hold their doctrinal beliefs is sickening. Even though they are valiant in their efforts to save the fallen world around them with their wondrous bible interpretations they forget that we're all in this together.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
steamylee Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:29/06/2006 1:13 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : HolyandSinful

I'm trying to be more respectful of people who are certainly allowed to believe whatever they like

 

yeah, im trying that too, but whenever i hear of anyone elses beliefs, i automaticly think that they are wrong with god, because they arent doing it the RCI way, and even tho i know this isnt the case it is so hard not to judge them!!

 

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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:01/07/2006 12:59 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : steamylee

yeah, im trying that too, but whenever i hear of anyone elses beliefs, i automaticly think that they are wrong with god, because they arent doing it the RCI way, and even tho i know this isnt the case it is so hard not to judge them!!

The flip side of this is that even though you know the RCI are not a healthy organisation, you still carry a lot of their beliefs and conditioning and thus they still have a massive effect on you.  As I have heard it said, "You can take the girl out of the cult but not the cult out of the girl."

This is where I found the concept of deprogramming really helpful for me.  I don't mean deprogramming as some kind of event...rather a process that takes place over time.  I didn't really start my own deprogramming unil many years after having left the cult.  That meant that for years after having left the RCI so much of what I did, how I reacted, and choices I made, were governed by the internal scripts that had been put into place by my time in the cult.    As one pastor's kid said to me about his initial time out after he left, "I was so self destructive as I thought if I am gonna go to hell then I might as well enjoy the ride."

We have a lot of 'truths' and assumptions that we carry from being in the RCI that we don't even realise we have as they are so deep down in our psyche and so much a part of who we are.  Leaving is really only the first step, even though it seemed like the last step when we took it.

I recommend tackling the internal stuff on two fronts.  The first is to unpack the beliefs...aka DOCTRINE.  Have a look at what other Xians have to say about the RCI beliefs and why they do or don't agree with them.  And don't just assume the RCI responses hold any weight.  Really find out what informed people think is wrong with the RCI position.  Then look at what non-Xians have to say.  And again, informed people who have some weight to their arguments.  The second front is the behavioural/cultic stuff.  What makes them a cult?  What tactics did they employ to keep themselves in power over you?  How did you behave?  Unpack these.

As I said, deprogramming is a process not an event and if you do it yourself (which of course you can) then be prepared for a LOT of reading and time to digest it.  Also be prepared for a lot of difficult emotions.  Anger, sadness, regret, frustration, etc...

I am happy to direct you to some great stuff if you wanna tackle any of this.  Just let me know and I'll be happy to help you out.

Cheers
Mr J

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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:02/07/2006 12:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Mr J

"You can take the girl out of the cult but not the cult out of the girl."

that is so true, i have done anything and everything i can do to forget RCI, but it just wont happen. maybe im doomed to have that cloud hanging over me for the rest of my life!

 

The first is to unpack the beliefs...aka DOCTRINE.  Have a look at what other Xians have to say about the RCI beliefs and why they do or don't agree with them.

i have tried listening to other peoples ideas, and thoughts, and their proof, but i still cant sway the RCI mindset. even tho i managed to get out, i have not managed to get them out of me, and at the moment i dont know if i ever will be able to. please if you can help message me cos i would love to hear what you have to say

I am happy to direct you to some great stuff if you wanna tackle any of this.  Just let me know and I'll be happy to help you out.

this would be greatly appreciated please

 

 

Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:03/07/2006 7:05 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : steamylee

Are you a reader?  Do you enjoy reading?  Some people just aren't.  There's no use telling u what to read if u wont read it. 

 

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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:04/07/2006 6:15 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Mr J

Reply to : steamyleeAre you a reader? Do you enjoy reading? Some people just aren't. There's no use telling u what to read if u wont read it.
yup, i do like reading, plus, im at work when im on this forum, so it gives me something to do when i should be working hehe
steamylee Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
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Re:'Badgering' people to speak in tongues

Date Posted:04/07/2006 8:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : Mr JReply to : steamyleeAre you a reader? Do you enjoy reading? Some people just aren't. There's no use telling u what to read if u wont read it.yup, i do like reading, plus, im at work when im on this forum, so it gives me something to do when i should be working hehe
i wrote the above reply, sorry i just forgot to log in
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