|
|
| Title: YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or | |
| Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Revival Churches > The Revival Fellowship (TRF) Discussion | Go to subcategory： |
| Author | Content |
|
b2va52
|
|||
|
Date Posted：27/09/2008 1:01 PMCopy HTML YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or C.A.
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#1
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：27/09/2008 8:19 PMCopy HTML Reply to b2va52 YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or C.A.
--- Ah Ha ... and please define for all of us the terminology " saved ".. give us all the benefit of your praxis .. Disciple. PS. In your Last step you make mention of "devils".. Can you also clarify and give definition as to what a "devil" is... I am of the understanding that the Revival Fellowship do not acknowledge the existence of such things as "devils".. ta |
||
|
Talmid
|
Share to:
#2
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：27/09/2008 10:05 PMCopy HTML Reply to b2va5 As I mentioned in another thread, why do you exclude the bit about "taking up serpents" from your consideration of Mk 16? Also from what translation do you get your above version of Mk 16:18? The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
|
||
|
Didaktikon
|
Share to:
#3
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 12:57 AMCopy HTML Good morning, Alm.
A request, if I may? Would it be too much to ask that you (mis)quote Scripture less, and elucidate its meaning more? In other words, explain for us what you believe the various verses and/or passages teach, rather than simply expecting us to understand them as you do. Which, of course, we don't  Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
||
|
b2va52
|
Share to:
#4
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 1:43 AMCopy HTML To Talmid
RE As I mentioned in another thread, why do you exclude the bit about "taking up serpents" from your consideration of Mk 16? Also from what translation do you get your above version of Mk 16:18? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sorry Talmid, Unfortunatlly I was using a New King James Revised Edition and it dosn't have the verse 'and they shall take up serpents'. I do know the verse that you mean but because I was using the NKJRE I didn't put it in. I hope that answers your question. Just to quickly talk about that line, we as readers of the bible must put into the context that the lord has placed that verse in. After reading Mark 16vs16-18 we learn that that those that are saved by the evidence of believeing will take on certain traits, values and rituals. So once reading the scripture again we learn that Jesus said " THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND ARE BAPTISED WILL BE SAVED". He also go's on to say "AND THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE (Note. that Jesus said this so that people in the world can find his people or a.k.a. Church) IN MY NAME THEY SHALL CAST OUT DEVILS, THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES; THEY SHALL TAKE UP SERPENTS; AND IF THEY DRINK ANY DEADLLY THING; IT SHALL NOT HERT THEM; AND THEY SHALL LAY HANDS ON THE SICK, AND THEY SHALL RECOVER. When the lord put in the sentence 'they shall take up serpents' he was basiclly emphorsizing the next sentence - 'And if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hert them'. What these basic lines mean is that he's followers will be able to show others the power of God, I believe these sentances literarly not figurtivly, I believe that if I picked up a snake by accident (Luke 4:12 - And Jesus said, Do not Put your Lord God to the test) and it bit me, I would not suffer, Because I believe that God does not harm his children. The next question is then how do you became one of his children, simply by being baptised by water(confirming your belief for the lord) and baptised by the spirit (the fulfillment of salvation) B2VA52 |
||
|
b2va52
|
Share to:
#5
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 2:04 AMCopy HTML To Ian, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ian, I believe in the bible and therefore to prove my point I quote scriptures, I would like to put forward to you, How have I 'misquoted scripture'? |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#6
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 8:04 AMCopy HTML B2VA52, ALM
I have a simple question for you, and a simple answer would suffice; What is it that are we are 'saved' from? brolga |
||
|
Sea Urchin
|
Share to:
#7
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 11:47 AMCopy HTML Hi Alm, I'd just like to make a comment or two; Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
|
||
|
b2va52
|
Share to:
#8
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 12:06 PMCopy HTML Dear Brolga
RE I have a simple question for you, and a simple answer would suffice; What is it that are we are 'saved' from? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dearest Brolga, The dictionary meaning of saved is; To rescue or keep safe from danger.God saves/rescues his children from what the natural path of man is; When a person dies they ither enter heven or hell, You must have the qualities, values and morals that I mentioned in my first response to be saved, i.e. Born Again etc. To start of this answer we must first examine heven and hell. The bible states that heven is a place made by God for his followers. It speaks of heven as a paradice. Hell on the other hand is a place for those that don't believe or follow the lord. Hell is said to be a place full of fire and torment. A place that I hope no one wants to be. To be saved is to be rescued by the lord, its to entre heven not hell, the opposite is condemnation, going to hell. I hope that answers your question brolga. If you want some bible verses please let me know. God Bless Alm |
||
|
b2va52
|
Share to:
#9
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 12:52 PMCopy HTML Ian,
RE. Alm: the bible teaches us that if you believe you will be saved. Urch: That's correct - purely and simply ' believe' (no rules are required, just BELIEVE) Alm: The next question then is how do we prove to god and others that we believe Urch: Why do you feel we need to 'prove' to God (or others) whether we believe or not? Does He ask for 'proof'? A hint - we are known by our fruits, how we live our lives not for ourselves but for others etc. Alm: the bible has the answers to that question, it states that we must be baptised in water like Jesus was, and then following the baptism of water there will be the baptism of the holy ghost. The bible teaches us that to be saved we must be BORN AGAIN of spirit and of water. Urch: Can you give us the exact scripture (chapter & verse) where it says we MUST do these things to be saved? Alm: Following all these comandments made by the lord there is what I believe the hardest commandments left. To be saved we must have Good works, preach the word, repent for our sins and praise and worship our God. These simple steps ensure salvation, by the grace of god we are saved. Urch: So we have to 'follow commandments" to be saved now? Your first 'salvation' message is that we have to 'believe'. Where do the commandments or rules come into it? Nowhere in the bible does it say that you 'must have good works' to be saved OR that you 'must preach the word' to be saved etc You touched on the truth about salvation in your final words - by the grace of God we are saved. Alm, please listen carefully - there is absolutely NOTHING we can do of ourselves, it is by the grace of God. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. Such grace can only come from God. It is a gift unsought,unmerited, undeserved and unlimited. The law was given by Moses , but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (John 1). Grace and law just don't mix. It has been said that the Old Testament used 'mercy' while the New Testament speaks of 'grace'. Here are some examples for you to think about: Mercy is God withholding the punishment we rightfully deserve. Grace is God not only withholding that punishment but offering the most precious of gifts instead. Mercy withholds the knife from the heart of Isaac. Grace provides a ram in the thicket. Mercy closes the door to hell Grace opens the door to heaven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ian. First off I want to say that I agree with you alot on this matter but when I read The New Testament I see Jesus yearning for his children to believe in him and to fulfill what his Father wants of us. I have mentioned them in my first and second post of this thread. I can not agree with you on Baptism, The Holy Spirit, or Salvation. The bible clearlly states on many occasions that we ,must be baptised to fulfill Gods desires. Mathew 3:14 - I NEED TO BE BAPTISED BY YOU FOR IT IS PROPER . LET IT BE SO FOR IT IS PROPER TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Acts 10:47 - CAN ANYONE WITHHOLD THE WATER FOR BAPTISING THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECIEVED THE HOLY SPIRIT. Ian, you next stated that the bible dosnt state anything about preeching the word etc. But I dissagree, I am 16 and I know of one it is John 15:27 - YOU ARE ALSO TO TESTIFY BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING. Jesus' disiples went out through the world and preached the word, why?, because they wanted to get persecuted, I think not, Because they new it was the right thing to do for it was there father's will. I have mentioned earlier in this thread the lords view on The Holy Spirit and The Salvation Message. People contend with Speaking In Tongues yet the bible clearlly states its from God for the use of edification. If you have a problem with speaking in tongues then you have a problem with the lord and you are none of his. Read Pauls Letters - Acts and Corrinthians. The bible speaks of salvation and I put forward to the reader you to can be saved, you to can recieve he gifts of the holy ghost and you to can be a follower of the truth, the light the way. You have nothing to lose by comming to A Revival Fellowship meeting but everything to gain... There are many people that don't like The Revival Fellowship and there is a certain scripture that comes to mind John 15:18 - IF THE WORLD HATES YOU, BE AWARE THAT IT HATED ME BEFORE IT HATED YOU. (Jesus ) God Bless Alm |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#10
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 12:58 PMCopy HTML Alm, It hasn't suprised me your answer forwarded, but I asked, WHAT are we saved from? This is the answer I was looking for; 'THE SECOND DEATH'.
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#11
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 2:36 PMCopy HTML Alme,
OK, this is hypothetical; let's say that I was put out of your fellowship for doing something not according to Revivalist teachings, like eg falling to the temptation of fornication or adultery, or could not give up smoking, if you had convinced me to want to come back in fellowship, what would be the situation? Am I forgiven or am I going to hell? brolga |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#12
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：28/09/2008 4:37 PMCopy HTML Alm, You asked "how do we prove to God and others that we believe" Alm, we don't need to prove anything to God. He knows all about us. He knows our deepest thoughts and he knows when the heart is sincere. Indeed the very hairs of your head are all numbered. (Luke 12:) As for proving to others that we believe, well he can sort that out too as part of his redemptive work. God Bless you. Epi |
||
|
Didaktikon
|
Share to:
#13
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 12:43 AMCopy HTML Good morning, Chriss.
I believe in the bible and therefore to prove my point I quote scriptures, I would like to put forward to you, How have I 'misquoted scripture'? Well, I believe in Scripture too, but simply quoting verses seriatim does not mean that you properly represent what they actually present. Second, you have misquoted Scripture, insofar that you have apparently used a "translation" which misrepresents the original text. And further, you have altogether failed to adequately consider the appropriate and necessary contexts that underpin said passages. To sum up: you've misquoted rather than quoted the Bible. When I read the bible I see a couple of rules or commandment's that we must follow to entre the kingdom of God. Funny, but when I read Scripture, I come away with a completely different perspective to you These rules/commandments I outlined earlier but becuase you didn't understand it because there was to much scripture I'll try and explaine it with out any (I Believe that nothing is better then proof from the bible). The fact of you (mis)quoting Scripture wasn't the issue, by the way. To be saved or To go to heven you must one believe in Jesus Christ, To believe is to obey and surrender to the Lords will. So which one is it? To be saved? Or to attain "heaven"? Second, to "believe" is neither to "obey", nor necessarily to "surrender to the Lord's will". Both are, in fact, consequences or outcomes of "saving" belief; they are not what defines/describes such "belief" to begin with. Consider, the prepositional phrase, "believe/belief in the Lord Jesus" invokes the fact of placing one's faith and trust in the fact that Jesus is who he claimed to be, and consequently, that he is able to deliver one from the penalty of sin. The next question then is how do we prove to god and others that we believe, well... the bible has the answers to that question, it states that we must be baptised in water like Jesus was, and then following the baptism of water there will be the baptism of the holy ghost. Well, I don't think we need to "prove" anything to God, and neither do I believe that we are in any position to be offering such "proof", anyway. Second, baptism, as is the case with "tongues", doesn't function as a "proof" of anything. Baptism is nothing more than an act of post-conversion discipleship. Third, God baptises a person in/with the Spirit at the point of one's conversion. And this, of course, precedes baptism. The bible teaches us that to be saved we must be BORN AGAIN of spirit and of water. Yes, and such has nothing whatsoever to do with either baptism in water or speaking in "tongues". Following all these comandments made by the lord there is what I believe the hardest commandments left. To be saved we must have Good works, preach the word, repent for our sins and praise and worship our God. So what you're actually suggesting to me (and please correct me if I've misunderstood you), is that we are "saved from grace, by works"? (Incidentally, some readers may be interested to learn that my tentative dissertation title is, "Saved from grace: a theological evaluation of Revivalist soteriology"). These simple steps ensure salvation, by the grace of god we are saved.... Chriss, please look up the word "oxymoron" in a dictionary. If anyone out there wants to hear the lords word in full light please leave a message and I will get back to you. Sure. Can I take it that you'll be passing on all the said requests to me for response?  Ian. First off I want to say that I agree with you alot on this matter but when I read The New Testament I see Jesus yearning for his children to believe in him and to fulfill what his Father wants of us. Well, "first off" I think I should mention that you're now responding to Urch's musings, not mine. But I'll "dip my toe" anyway, as is my habit. I can not agree with you on Baptism, The Holy Spirit, or Salvation. Sure, and I suppose that's the principle difference between us: I base my beliefs on these subjects upon what Scripture actually teaches. The bible clearlly states on many occasions that we ,must be baptised to fulfill Gods desires. Mathew 3:14 - I NEED TO BE BAPTISED BY YOU FOR IT IS PROPER . LET IT BE SO FOR IT IS PROPER TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Acts 10:47 - CAN ANYONE WITHHOLD THE WATER FOR BAPTISING THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECIEVED THE HOLY SPIRIT. To begin with, the Matthew 3 passage refers to Jesus' baptism, and not ours. And, of course, Jesus was baptised so as to identify with the sinners that he came to save (a completely different context to what you're currently suggesting). Second, the account in Acts 10 had to do with the first incorporation of gentiles into the Christian Church. Baptism, you see, was the rite through which full "table-fellowship" was made available. Again, you've completely missed the context of what was being presented. Ian, you next stated that the bible dosnt state anything about preeching the word etc. But I dissagree, I am 16 and I know of one it is John 15:27 - YOU ARE ALSO TO TESTIFY BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING. "Urch", not "Ian". In any case, Urch was right, and you are wrong. John 15:27 was Jesus speaking directly to his chosen disciples. They are those were with Jesus from the beginning (i.e. the beginning of his ministry). Context, context, context. Or, in your case, "a text without its context is a pretext for a proof-text". Jesus' disiples went out through the world and preached the word, why?, because they wanted to get persecuted, I think not, Because they new it was the right thing to do for it was there father's will. Actually, Chriss, they did so because such was their commission. People contend with Speaking In Tongues yet the bible clearlly states its from God for the use of edification. So too is prayer, fellowship, the singing of psalms, et cetera. Importantly, the latter have a bit more substance to them. If you have a problem with speaking in tongues then you have a problem with the lord and you are none of his. Read Pauls Letters - Acts and Corrinthians. Or, we have a "problem" with those people who don't properly understand Paul's letters. But thank you. I have read Acts (not written by Paul, by the way) and Corinthians (both letters) a couple of times over the years. The bible speaks of salvation and I put forward to the reader you to can be saved, you to can recieve he gifts of the holy ghost and you to can be a follower of the truth, the light the way. Okay, but the first thing that came to my mind when I read this was, "fighting for truth, justice and the American way!" Too many hours during my misspent youth, reading too many comic books I reckon! (Oops, "graphic novels", sorry Mothster) You have nothing to lose by comming to A Revival Fellowship meeting but everything to gain... I suppose (at best) all one has to lose is a couple of hours of one's life, and (at worst) one's eternity. There are many people that don't like The Revival Fellowship and there is a certain scripture that comes to mind John 15:18 - IF THE WORLD HATES YOU, BE AWARE THAT IT HATED ME BEFORE IT HATED YOU. (Jesus ) Which, I suppose, could equally apply to all those Christians who are hated by the unbelieving Revivalists! Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
||
|
Sea Urchin
|
Share to:
#14
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 1:56 PMCopy HTML You have nothing to lose by comming to A Revival Fellowship meeting but everything to gain..
. There are many people that don't like The Revival Fellowship and there is a certain scripture that comes to mind John 15:18 - IF THE WORLD HATES YOU, BE AWARE THAT IT HATED ME BEFORE IT HATED YOU. (Jesus ) Son, please allow me to speak frankly to you for a couple of moments and I pray that your heart is open to what I say. Your first sentence about having nothing to lose - I could quite honestly say that I 'lost' 24 years of my life - time that I could have spent in relationship with Jesus instead of with the Revival Fellowship. But in all fairness to the RF, they cannot show people God if they themselves do not know God. "The God we know is the God we show". The God they 'know' is a God of judgment, fear and control. The God I have come to know since leaving RF 2 years ago, is a just and righteous God of mercy, of love, of grace, of compassion. He does not seek to 'control' us, rather He wants us to seek Him with all that is within us - don't let people that don't know Him tell you how to know (come into relationship) Him. Seek Him and love Him earnestly with all your heart, your mind and your soul. It is true that there are many (including those on this forum) who do not 'like' the RF. It might be wise of you to examine their reasons. Yes, some are quite outspoken about it and perhaps still even hold on to anger or bitterness over hurt that they have experienced there which they will hopefully sort through as part of their journey. Alm, the majority of us spent many years there and I have family members that were part of the oversight for many years. It was not an easy decision to leave a church that we had been part of for so long and it was a strange sense of 'loyalty' that kept us there longer than we should have stayed. But in the end after much praying, God made our direction clear and I never again want to follow a 'religion' - I only ever want to be IN RELATIONSHIP with the creator of the universe. My prayer for you son, is that you allow the Lord to work in you, with you and through you and that you open your ears and your heart and follow Him. God bless you, love Urch Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
|
||
MothandRust
|
Share to:
#15
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 3:56 PMCopy HTML Reply to ALM: Ha. What's to lose? Huge wads of your life. The bulk of every Sunday for the rest of your life will be spent in a mostly passive arena that truly IS a long and tedious series of hours. Preparation and actual meeting time can take seven hours or more each Sunday, which is a strain on working families, who miss out on the bulk of this day of the weekend to interact with each other. There are not one, but two meetings that you're very much 'encouraged' to attend, or subtle guilt trips will be heaped upon you should you miss any and then looked down upon by the other members who 'had' to be there... it's not fair for them if you get to go to the beach while they sweat it out singing hymns from the 1940s. A full and busy program is set, including midweek meetings, house-meetings, youth group meetings, prayer meetings, and regular events and 'outreaches'. This overload of meetings is a control mechanism used by all extremist organisations of this type to condition, normalise and solidify a way of life that is extreme and unusual compared to the mainstream christian community. What's to lose? Your old family and friends. New members are socially conditioned and expected to increase the amount of 'fellowship' with their self-titled 'saint' friends and to decrease their time spent with family and outside, or 'worldly', associates. Every person they meet is to be treated as a possible new convert and a spiel should always be at ready to rattle off to them. Anyone with a different view is not something to be entertained, but only given mock interest, and shouted down at some point. What's to lose? Freedom. You are not allowed to read other material from other churches unless it is sanctioned and given the green light by the Revival elders, and very rarely is (another control mechanism). You are not allowed to be reading this forum or even this particular message. Just reading this very line is breaking one of the rules given to them by their church elders, and therefore a crime against what they believe are the commanded to do by the Holy Ghost. Freedom and liberty is not theirs. Turn around, stop, and do not pass go. Rules and regulations, and plenty of them, set by the hierarchy for your own good will forbid you from leading a normal life. You're not to be trusted, and you may be disfellowshipped in shame. Your life is now under scrutiny and it is someone's responsibility to check on you and report any inconsistencies. What's to lose? Money Ten percent of your income (BEFORE the taxman takes his piece) AND an offering to sweeten up the deal will be expected to be passed on to the church leadership. Pressure will be given to do this as a non-existing commandment from the Bible. Pastors are then allowed to do whatever they will with that chunk of your dosh and members are asked to obey the hierarchy and pay up, afterall, it's not your money, it's God's! Make sure you keep up with the building funds too. What's to lose? Wine, beer and alcoholic beverages Revival churches forbid their members to drink any alcohol whatsoever. Yep, forbidden. Members are strongly recommended to avoid visiting any establishment that even serves alcohol. Church elders do not want you to harm the fleshy temple even though Jesus himself turned water into wine as his first public miracle. What's to gain? Really great coffee and 'suppers'. All the caffeine and sugar your heart desires. Exercise is recommended. What's to lose? Dancing and secular music. Live concerts by 'worldly' musicians are usually puppets of Satan only trying to lure christians to the dark side through various types of musical art and poetry. 'Lively' worship sessions in Revival are often the repetition of short old religious choruses, where clapping is allowable, but too much movement or hand raising is forbidden. There is no dancing at social events, and members are discouraged from going to venues where dancing happens - kinda like Footloose. What's to lose? Work and study If either work hours or study commitments conflicts with the regular meeting times being held is heavily discouraged by the hierachy. In the past, University study and even some insurance schemes have been also been discouraged because the return of 'The Lord' was so immenent. What's to gain? Men rule It's whole hierarchy structure is a boy's club with little input and influece from women other than whispers into their husbands ears. Women aren't allowed to preach, except for Sunday School kids or each other. Women can sit back and support their men, and must try very hard not to gossip about what their big fish in small pond houseleader husbands bring home from their meetings, where 'people' are discussed. Dress standards are also very strict and many women endure shame-staring if their Sunday garb doesn't follow the code (in and out of meetings). What's to gain? Help for your fellow man? Well, no, there's no gain for that actually. Looking for a church that helps the homeless or people in need? Food for those in need? no. Shelter? No. Maybe a lift to a Revival meeting where they can feel pressured into joining the collective, with the hope that there will be a supper table afterwards. Give them a series of pamphlettes and send them on their way. God'll take care of the rest. Good god. "People in need aren't given a fish, nor are they taught how to use a fishing rod;" they're prayed for and expected to attend more meetings until the Lord sorts them out. What's to gain? Friends and fellowship You will find many new friends who will pray for you and do all manner of nice things for you. They will stick with you through anything and treat you like family. Many will treat you better than their own family members (who aren't fellowshipping). They will drop you like a HOT potato if you decide to leave their organisation of leave for another church. They will shun like there is no tomorrow, and do so for your own good, smiling all the way. Hassling and praying that you return to the only 'true' church on the planet. What's to gain? Your own personal life coaches! 'Bible' teachings from men who have zero theological bible training, and actually take great pride in that fact. All they have is a series of in-house interpretations passed down from pastor to members. These 'leaders' have no formal training in pastoring or 'counselling' of any kind, which is horrifying when you consider the influence they have on members who believe they should obey and give complete trust over to their hierachy - without question. What's to gain? Salvation or placebo version thereof, IF you follow the unscriptural and complicated steps and rituals, (said to be inspired by The Holy Spirit 'Thing') set down by Lloyd Longfield, and even then you can only 'hope' you make it when the Lord returns, which has been coming very soon for a very long time now. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#16
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 8:49 PMCopy HTML Good article Mothy,
I have been trying to produce a phamplet, just to hand out to those that might be considering becoming a Revivalist, as a warning and to let them know what they would be letting themselves in for. This is all that's needed, simple short message. Good stuff. brolga |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#17
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 10:15 PMCopy HTML
Yeah I once missed a Sunday meeting to spend out on the Barrier Reef on a yacht ... Should have done it more often, it would have been worth getting sunburnt red more often... blessings |
||
|
MothandRust
|
Share to:
#18
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/09/2008 11:08 PMCopy HTML Revivalists will have a cunning quip, quote and scripture in a bank of preset replies for each of the points that I've only briefly touched on here and are expounded on further throughout this forum. These unfortunate people have often grown up and been conditioned in this rigid and legalistic envirnonment, not to question it, but blindly follow with a smile and a thank you.
To any discerning reader of this forum who is researching the legalistic faux church will undoubtedly see some red flags and be fairly warned. The mainstream Christian community of believers immediately relate the practices of this rather tiny church as unhealthy and completely out of touch with the way the bible teaches and with the traits of Jesus as is depicted within. Cult is a strong and often unfair word. I prefer the acronym COOCC - Continuum of overly controlling Churches... and the Revival Churches are truly quite far along the very negative end of COOCCS. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#19
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：30/09/2008 3:14 AMCopy HTML Alm has been very quiet of late. I wonder could it be that he has gone to camp for a good "top up" and will be back soon with renewed vigour. My guess, though, is that he's had the tap on the shoulder, perhaps after boastfully telling all of his "good witness". Aim, like many in RF seems to be imbued with a deep zeal to witness and then tell everyone about it - that he took on those ex Rev forum members and gave them a "good witness" or a "good watering" or "poured hot coals on their heads" RF leaders, although lacking in many areas, would hardly be stupid enough not to see the folly of taking on some on the forum who could, and would, disprove the Gospel According to Revival Fellowship very quickly and effectively. Epi |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#20
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：30/09/2008 9:57 PMCopy HTML Reply to Episkopeo Alm has been very quiet of late. I wonder could it be that he has gone to camp for a good "top up" and will be back soon with renewed vigour. My guess, though, is that he's had the tap on the shoulder, perhaps after boastfully telling all of his "good witness". Aim, like many in RF seems to be imbued with a deep zeal to witness and then tell everyone about it - that he took on those ex Rev forum members and gave them a "good witness" or a "good watering" or "poured hot coals on their heads" Me thinks Ian has Alm pretty well in focus... Sure it is good to believe the Bible and that does help but however !! It is another matter to UNDERSTAND the Bible... and that is an issue the RF really have to come to grips with, the fact that many, if not all of the RF do MISunderstand what they read in Holy Writ... When I first left the RF after 13 years, I had never heard of the word "Exegeses" and these present days, exegeses is a skill I am forever trying to perfect. blessings Disciple RF leaders, although lacking in many areas, would hardly be stupid enough not to see the folly of taking on some on the forum who could, and would, disprove the Gospel According to Revival Fellowship very quickly and effectively. |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#21
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：01/10/2008 12:58 AMCopy HTML Disciple. RF leaders, in my opinion, call a certain bluff which in the main works. They (almost all) develop an authoritative approach, manner of speaking and acting, which defies contradiction. There are some very intelligent people in the seats of RF. Some quietly behind their hands, don't agree with a lot of what goes on, but when in the presence of those who have the rule over them, they play the game of "follow the leader". Whatever the leader/s say goes and the leader/s are certainly not into any form of formal learning or theology or (where I was anyway) allowing anyone else to do so. Even the Sunday school books were censored to be sure they were in line with RF ways. If the leader/s say, as they do, from the front that you have now entered your rest (in RF) well, many do literally "enter their rest" depriving themselves of any form of analytical or critical thinking. There's also a deep fear of "falling from grace" (so to speak) or being put out as troublemakers, especially if it were to split families into those in and those out - as it did in my case. For me to stay, would have likened to the dark ages - a period of religious struggle. Epi |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#22
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：01/10/2008 5:12 PMCopy HTML Moth, Your what's to lose and what's to gain post describes the oddities of Revival so well. One strange thing an old and forceful, two fisted pastor always used to harp on about was obedience to the leaders. He would say "obey the oversight even if he's wrong - and you'll get the blessing". Was this saying in common use or was it just this old feller asserting his domination over the flock? Epi |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#23
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：01/10/2008 8:45 PMCopy HTML
Hi Epi, I can confirm it was part of the doctrine in all the Revival groups I attended and not centred to one isolated case. Very early in my walk with Revival it was noted, and upon looking into the contextual meaning of the scripture, I found the word "obey" meant to be "pursuaded", not "obey me or else". brolga |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#24
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：01/10/2008 11:16 PMCopy HTML Reply to Brolga, On obey. Yes, I came across obey as "to be persuaded" while in RCI. Anyway I never took much heed to a lot of the things that came over while I was in that church. As I progressed there I felt that they (RCI/RF) took liberties for their own ends with most scriptures. Didn't connect the fact that proper scriptural learning was needed as they always said that God raises up pastors and they didn't need any formal teaching as the Holy Spirit did that. This seemed fair enough even though I had come from a church where the clergy went through about 7 years of training and continued their learning thereafter. Epi |
||
|
Talmid
|
Share to:
#25
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：02/10/2008 8:41 PMCopy HTML Hi Alm Sorry Talmid, Unfortunatlly I was using a New King James Revised Edition and it dosn't have the verse 'and they shall take up serpents'. I do know the verse that you mean but because I was using the NKJRE I didn't put it in. I hope that answers your question. Hmm ... a version I haven't heard of and which I can't find referred to via Google. Well there is a 'Revised King James New Testament' which *does* have the verse, as does every other translation I have access to and, as far as I can see, both the 'Received' and NA/UBS Greek texts. Just to quickly talk about that line, we as readers of the bible must put into the context that the lord has placed that verse in. Absolutely, let's see if we can do it ... After reading Mark 16vs16-18 we learn that that those that are saved by the evidence of believeing ... "Saved by the evidence of believing"? I thought you'd said you thought Christians were saved by believing. ... ... will take on certain traits, values and rituals. In this passage (Mark 16vs16-18) , Traits - signs - ok; values and rituals - no mention So once reading the scripture again we learn that Jesus said " THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND ARE BAPTISED WILL BE SAVED". I'll leave you to discuss the significance of baptism with Ian He also go's on to say "AND THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE My point exactly (more later) ... (Note. that Jesus said this so that people in the world can find his people or a.k.a. Church) Are you sure? He was actually speaking with His apostles at this point. (What happened to your focus on context?) IN MY NAME THEY SHALL CAST OUT DEVILS, THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES; THEY SHALL TAKE UP SERPENTS; AND IF THEY DRINK ANY DEADLLY THING; IT SHALL NOT HERT THEM; AND THEY SHALL LAY HANDS ON THE SICK, AND THEY SHALL RECOVER. So now you accept that the 'serpents' clause is scripture? Maybe you'd better ditch the NKJRE. I've highlighted a semi-colon which is actually a comma in the KJV. When the lord put in the sentence 'they shall take up serpents' he was basiclly emphorsizing the next sentence - 'And if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hert them'. Well, the translation reads to me more like the 'deadly drink' bit is an extension of the 'serpent' bit, but those who can read the original language have put in a semicolon separating the clauses What these basic lines mean is that he's followers will be able to show others the power of God, I believe these sentances literarly not figurtivly, I believe that if I picked up a snake by accident (Luke 4:12 - And Jesus said, Do not Put your Lord God to the test) and it bit me, I would not suffer, Because I believe that God does not harm his children. If you're taking them "literally" you need to recognise that the 'serpent' clause *doesn't* say *if*; it says *shall*. Let's take your reasoning a step further. Since these verses are all part of the same construct, you would need to also link speaking in tongues and casting out devils to "not being hurt". And to continue the thought, the passage says that after laying on of hands, "they *shall* recover", yet as you listen to RF testimonies you will find that there are times when those prayed for haven't recovered. Actually this can all be resolved by seeing that the passage characterises Christians as a group; it doesn't characterise individuals. Those who know Greek say that the former stands out like a dog's hind leg when the passage is read in the original language. The next question is then how do you became one of his children, simply by being baptised by water(confirming your belief for the lord) and baptised by the spirit (the fulfillment of salvation) It's not the next question for me, but since you raise it, might I refer you back to the passage we're looking at (and it's context ). It says that these signs follow those who *believe*. Again ... I'll leave you to discuss the significance of baptism with Ian.The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#26
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 3:35 AMCopy HTML I am currently a member of the rf
and have to laugh at the gutless people you are if you are so right then why be so ashamed to spread your message. Anyhow if the message we preach and the doctrine is so worng I may just got to hell! how foolish of me not to listen to you. But I tell you now your hatred and bitterness means you will be dining at the same table. Hi to Josh V and family Rgds Jarrod |
||
|
Jarrod_J
|
Share to:
#27
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 3:44 AMCopy HTML I agree we should all publish names
|
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#28
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 4:08 AMCopy HTML Reply to Jarrod_J I agree we should all publish names My apologies if my question is mistaken- but did you just agree with your own post or was it coincidence both names are Jarrod?? |
||
|
Jarrod_J
|
Share to:
#29
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 4:32 AMCopy HTML Just coincindental
I dont come on as guest sorry your name was ? Jarrod_J |
||
|
outaegypt
|
Share to:
#30
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 5:36 AMCopy HTML Reply to Jarrod_J Just coincindental I dont come on as guest sorry your name was ? Jarrod_J Re : RF pastor appointed city Councillor Jarrod, anonymity or otherwise has nothing to do with the issues discussed on this forum. You have given your name, so what, it means nothing to me nor would my name mean anything to you. If you wish to discuss spiritual or theological matters then nail your colours to the mast for dissection and discussion don't turn up and name-call, thats just weak. cheers, Tom Reply to Jarrod: Anonymity may not be for the purpose of protecting or hiding the 'poster' as you accuse but protecting others family or friends still in the RC's. It's called giving. Sadly, you not only reveal your name but you show your typical judgmental attitude and narrow mindedness in the approach you take in your posts. Being Christ like might be a goal for you worth exploring. Step back, be all things to all people, try compassion and understanding not antagonism. As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
||
|
Didaktikon
|
Share to:
#31
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：06/10/2008 7:34 AMCopy HTML Hello there.
I am currently a member of the rf. Of course you are. Your tone, style and ignorance gave you away and have to laugh at the gutless people you are if you are so right then why be so ashamed to spread your message. Really?! Methinks not. I put my name and contact details on everything that I produce and publish. Anyhow if the message we preach and the doctrine is so worng I may just got to hell! Indeed you may, as that's what Scripture presents as being your fate. how foolish of me not to listen to you. You'll get no arguments from me on that score! But I tell you now your hatred and bitterness means you will be dining at the same table. Well I shan't deign to speak for anyone else, but there seems to be far less in the way of "hate" and "bitterness" in what I post, when compared to your brief little missive. Repent, dude. Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
||
|
agape777
|
Share to:
#32
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：12/10/2008 3:54 AMCopy HTML Old saying ... "You can teach a parrot to speak in tongues but only a Son of God will learn to walk in love" |
||
|
Ex_Member
|
Share to:
#33
|
||
|
Re：YOU TO CAN BE SAVED : A MEMBER OF THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP You may know me as Alm, B2va52 or Date Posted：29/11/2008 9:43 PMCopy HTML I have left TRF for its attempt at controlling people's lives, but there are some people on here bitter for 'women's lib' The Bible is clear about women! So all the feminists who left TRF clearly had some other issues as well! I left TRF because it compromised on many issues. (Ironic when u hear them preach!), so I certainly would not attend another church, which compromised due to the feminists. The Bible is clear! 1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order. 1Ti 2:9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,1Ti 2:10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness--with good works. 1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 1Ti 2:14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 1Ti 2:15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control. |
