Hello, Ralph.

A conversation with a certain gentleman today, I found out that he and his wife recently converted to Islam after professing to be Christian for many years. Asking the reason why they became Muslim he said that he could never understand the Christian view of the 'Trinity' and the Islamic view of a monolithic god made more sense to him. I have to question just how much the man actually knew about Christianity given the defining doctrine of Christianity is that God is triune. Perhaps in his case his 'Christianity' was cultural rather than personal? Anyway, I also wonder just how your friend reconciled the distinction between the Christian God being a God of love, with the Muslim god being a god of vengence?

This got me thinking why do people change their belief system to another or for another religion and even disbelief in God entirely. The change could result from any number of reasons, I suppose. For example, coming across more compelling and convincing information; the baggage of personal hurt or disillusionment; feelings of pride and arrogance, etc.

Reflecting back on my own walk I found at the time of my 'Anglican' upbringing, the lack of answers or at the least, never had it explained to me such things as they should have about the importance of the cross and resurrection of Christ etc. Might I ask, how nominal was your Anglican upbringing, Ralph? And how invested were your parents in the Christian faith, and in passing it on to you?

Converting to Revivalism did, in a form, make God, Jesus and the bible "alive" to me as it was presented as hope and an answer to be free of all my problems (not with standing it made my life a misery for many years). I was taken in because of the bright music and the attention of the people there and told me they had proof that God was real and that I could have a personal tangible experience with him. Precisely the same is true of every actively proseltysing religion in the world, whether Islam, the JWs, the LDS, the various Revivalist sects and even some Christian denominations! 'Fresh meat' = 'plenty of attention'. With the sects, chuck in an experiential and/or pragmatic angle to things, couple it to an unhealthy helping of spiritual superiority and smugness, and voila! Conversion :)

As we now know, what a disaster that turned out to be. Indeed. Far better it is to chase the substance of the Saviour rather than an image of a sign any day. Despite the fact of everything that happened, I still believe, even more so now, in God and walk in faith with the knowledge I have since obtained. In my not-so-humble-opinion biblical Christianity provides a balanced mix of faith, knowledge (which includes reason), experience and community. Invariably the sects and '-isms' are either superabundant or deficient in one or another of these aspects, instead of being equally stable across them all.

I'd like to know of others the reasons why you have or have not changed your views or beliefs about God. I don't know that my views and beliefs about God have changed all that much; my understanding with respect to the implications that result, however, certainly have.

Blessings,

Ian

Ian, thank you.
Fairly well sums it up.

Might I ask, how nominal was your Anglican upbringing, Ralph? And how invested were your parents in the Christian faith, and in passing it on to you?

My mother and extended families were devoted church goers and my Aunt was the Sunday School teacher for many years. My father was Methodist and became very 'religious' whilst a serviceman in the RAAF during WW11 active in the war effort in Darwin and the occupation forces in Borneo against the Japanese.
I guess it all became a 'cultural' thing in years that followed, but my take is the Church didn't have the answers, or at the least, held back expressing the important personal relationship one should have and/or substance of Christ  that one needs to know.

Ralph.

Hi, Ralph.

Sure, but given what you've shared about your parents fervor, what did they teach you about Christ, Scripture and Christian belief? Further, what sorts of questions did you put to the leaders of the Anglican Church of your youth, that they apparently didn't have adequate answers for? I'm trying to get some context for your earlier statements and charges.

Blessings,

Ian

Ian,

Well this is the thing isn't it? My parents weren't forward in expressing what they may have known about the Lord, only that one doesn't go to heaven if one does the wrong thing and doesn't go to Church.
I was to learn later in life of my father's (God rest his soul) religious 'fervor' on the battlefield which resulted in a nervous breakdown and ended up in Heidleburg hospital for six months after the war.
Perhaps that price he paid the reason they didn't push it on to us kids.PTL my father found his peace with God before he died.
As for my youth, my aunt and I would sit down reading and perusing the bible for hours trying to understand the significance of it all.
Perhaps because of her non-formal training as a Sunday School teacher never had all the answers.
But I believe that's how it was in country towns those days.
Yes my minister did answer questions I would ask but the emphasis of the Church was more on the social scene, the here now, rather than what scripture said about eschatology.
Today is different as the Churches are more 'evangelical' and there is opportunity now to know what scripture is about, so really, there's no excuse for anyone to plead ignorance.
I have always had a belief in God, even from earliest childhood.

Ralph.

A couple I met today whom, in conversion about Christianity, I asked why they don't attend church any longer. Claiming they hadn't changed their beliefs and where 'Christians' still, but stopped going several years ago because the minister at the time asked them to catch up on their offerings after the couple had a three month break whilst traveling around Australia.
Lot of people I talk to, I'd say, the majority leave over monetary matters one way or another. 

Ralph,

What you shared about them lends me to thinking the couple has very little understanding about the corporate nature of what it means to be 'Christian'; further, that they were offended by the reasonable expectation that they would meet their financial obligations to the congregation. Such describes immaturity and selfishness, pure-and-simple.

Blessings,

Ian

A certain couple many years in Revival and moved about (as I) in the three main groups in Geelong, finally ending in the CCC in Drysdale for a short time. Years of their own study and investigating the truth of BI ('Please Consider' confirmed what they discovered as being false) and scripture, they came to the conclusion there is no God and no longer believe.
Apparently they "presumed to investigate God's secret counsels rather than determine the triumph of God's just and gracious purposes in Jesus Christ". (Michael Horton)

Hi, Ralph.

A certain couple many years in Revival and moved about (as I) in the three main groups in Geelong, finally ending in the CCC in Drysdale for a short time. Years of their own study and investigating the truth of BI ('Please Consider' confirmed what they discovered as being false) and scripture, they came to the conclusion there is no God and no longer believe. Sadly, the above example reinforces what happens when one develops a relationship with a 'sign' rather than a Saviour. If one's belief system is built on anything but a personal experience of God's love and redemption in the crucified, resurrected and ascended Jesus Christ, then it won't weather close scrutiny, and neither will it survive challenging or faith-testing circumstances (so 1 Corinthians 2:1-5).

Blessings,

Ian

Hi  Ralph

of interest. 

may be you  can  convert him back to  Christianity ?

In the CAI, there's a  gospel (revivalist noless)  song (see A51/or A53)    that  mentions the ' oneness church of God' in the last line of the chorus.
It's really  popular rousing  tune at CAI,  but I always wondered what this church in the closing line meant.
strange who the CAI  didn't  'edit' this out of their song book...  but they aren't  strong on teaching.


See wikipedia....   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism
definitely an  interesting read.

 also  regarding your fellow not understanding... I think it's the same position the JH's  don't believe in the trinity , but the HS as an inpersonal force. 

Actually...  thinking about the OP.  this is a post better suited for the 'non Christian' forum.   I am  sure you'll find so very forthright  answers/opinions expressed. 

asking christians  why  people  leave  christianity won't result in much profitable discussion.  sorry.

Thanks anon1, but I'm not really interested any longer. People will just go on doing what they want to do regardless. Trying to persuade others to change for the good is a lost cause nowadays.

It's not my fight.

It's all bigotry and about how Christianity is boring and without substance nowadays. Consider the latest ramblings on the other threads, I wonder why they even bother at all. It is all hearsay and without merit.

Except for the issue of 'the problem of evil' (and that could be a topic in itself), I haven't come across anything they put up that gives precedence to my current view about God.