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glossolalia
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Date Posted:12/11/2009 11:35 AMCopy HTML


I was brought up in the Lord and fellowshipped in Adelaide my whole life. God and the Revival Fellowship meant the world to me. My entire being was devoted to God. Life would not have been worth living outside the fellowship (nor would I have thought it possible).

As I grew up in Sunday School and Bible Class I started asking questions. Over time I stockpiled the questions I didn't find thoroughly convincing answers to. These questions were doctrinal and related to the necessity of tongues, baptism, God, Bible numerics, Hell, Bible prophesy, compatibility with world religions etc

Things intensified in high school and then again during Uni as I was exposed to other worldviews that were less supernatural but seemed to make more sense. The list of questions grew as my allowed-to-think-area of my brain shrunk.

The straw that finally broke the camels back was evolution. The realization that I was not the center of the universe, both literally and figuratively, and the fact I was no different to any other species who is born and then dies without "meaning" or "purpose" hit me hard.

I tried speaking with several Pastors and their responses (although curt) always came back to faith (the stuff you hope is true without evidence).

The whole process of falling away was long and drawn-out, as I tried to reconcile God with reason whilst also trying to be honest with myself and other members.

I left last month. I longer believe in anything that requires faith or is supernatural in nature but rather only in things that can be proved rationally.

The questions that led me to leave the fellowship and Christianity are documented here: www.whyilefttherevivalfellowship.com


[URL]http://www.whyilefttherevivalfellowship.com[/URL]
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #51
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 12:38 AMCopy HTML

Yo Riddler,

Given that you've not responded to the comments of Fremde or myself and continue to address Ian, I must say that the evidence that you're wanting to "bail up" Ian rather than discuss issues is becoming quite compelling if not yet overwhelming. If that *is* the case might I suggest you try contacting Ian directly rather than use the bandwidth here ... and copy in your friends if you want an audience.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #52
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 1:14 AMCopy HTML

I am forming a response actually. I find it funny that, despite the overwhelming evidence for evolution, you guys still pick one or two anomalies, ignore everything else, and act like that is sufficient enough. Might I suggest that you spend at least half the time you spend studying your 2000 year old book on looking into evolution? I mean actually looking into to it. I'm the first to admit there are some aspects that are harder to determine than others, but does that suddenly rule out all possibilities pertaining to evolution?

I'm sure Ian can handle a bit of baiting from time to time. Forgive my natural opposition to those who present themselves higher than others, Ian has enough apologists on here to outweigh my petty ramblings. Besides, his witty rhetoric is always suitably impressive to his legion of followers.

Goose?

Riddler. 
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #53
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 1:37 AMCopy HTML

Good afternoon, all.

There are several issues relating to the current discussion that I find amusing and ironic. To begin with, we have a couple of former Revivalists who, one imagines, were once equally as passionate for the Revivalist cause as they now appear to be for the evolutionist cause! They were passionate, but wrong, once before ...

Second, all that's been offered thus far, the only thing that has been offered thus far, and then from both sides; are points-of-departure which relate to philosophical differences of opinion more than they have to do with the presentation and defending of established "facts". Throw away lines such as "overwhelming evidence" seemingly abound, but when all is said and done, rhetoric remains naught but rhetoric.

In closing, it's refreshing to see that one of our correspondents has apparently overcome his professed penchant for laziness, to the extent that he seeks to mount an argument for what he truly believe in. I wish that more of the people who approach me were as transparent as he is with respect to their "true colours", when given an appropriate "nudge".

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #54
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 2:08 AMCopy HTML

Hi Riddler

I actually have a bachelor's degree in a field of applied biology, so guess what I've had to come to grips with from a scientific perspective! And might I suggest that unless you've asked the other correspondents here you have no idea how much time *they've* spent looking into evolution.

I'll be interested to see your interaction with Ian re your key concern, theodicy

PS I *know* Ian can handle baiting. Did you miss my point?
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #55
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 4:59 AMCopy HTML

Hey Riddler,

I can relate... omg, I just spent too much time that I don't have writing a spiel about evolution and crap, and then lost it all. sigh at that. So now to bullet points instead.

- I spent a couple of years venting into a blog about why relgion sucks and god doesn't exist and yadda yadda, but really, what the heck do/did I know?

- I too don't have time to study Darwin's book, nor do I have time to study theology (or Theology for Dummies, for that matter).

- Ken Ham and his AiG young earth cronies are a bunch of kooks that make the bible actually look like a literal fairy tale.

- I don't believe in evolution. They say that toads have developed longer legs to handle Australian distances, but I don't know who 'they' are, and I'm not sure I believe 'them' anyway.

- Transitional fossils 'should' be all over the shop. They're not. Even when they do find something they believe is a creature that fills a gap it only serves to make more gaps in the supposed transitional timeline of the species.

- Of all the millions of species that do exist and have previously existed in the earth, air and sea, they seem to all be perfectly designed for their habitat already. All of these millions of creatures should have left behind countless variations of their development in their wake. We went from Velociraptor to Emu without a long lineage of fossilised remains in their transformatory transitional tale? Personally, I find it difficult to believe that god blinked them all into existance at various stages over the last 30 million years, but it's the most logical explanation I can think of.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
SintaxError Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #56
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 7:03 AMCopy HTML

 Hi All,
A very good book which addresses the topics of God and evolution (amongst others) is John Lennox's "God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?" available from Koorong for $9 and is an excellent investment to all who are interested in the science/religion debates. You can easily read it in a few days and possibly be spared the waste of time involved in creating "yet another" debate about the incompatibility of christianity and the theory of evolution.

It's written by a professor of mathematics from oxford university, so it contains no Ken Ham style kookiness, and no obvious untruths, like the assertion earlier in this thread that all remains of pre-historic humans could fit into a shoe box.

Basically, it is a very engaging comparison of the theistic and naturalistic worldviews and how these interface with the scientific method. Every chapter provides much food for thought and stimulus for further inquiry. 

Personally I would recommend this book to Riddler and other interested parties, and since people have been arguing over the implications of Darwins theory for the past 150 years, yet another (!!!) inflamed debate on the internet, especially by the partially-informed, will not solve the issue.

But since even Glossolalia has mentioned Christian writers who are evolutionists, I don't see why there is a need to argue this way or the other? The questions that Christianity addresses are far graver than whether we share the past biologically with the apes, or whether we were transposed into our earthly existence by more elusive means.

SinTaxError
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #57
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:19/11/2009 9:39 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, STE.

Indeed. The published literature on this subject is extensive enough, and is more than adequate for those who aren't so lazy as to eschew a little reading in order to become acquainted with the broad contours of the debate. I've not read the book you referred us to, but I would like to make a recommendation or two of my own.

I found "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins an entertaining read, not because I found him convincing, but because he was so passionate for his cause. And completely ill-informed on matters of philosophy and theology, which was, by-and-large, the intellectual basis and substance underpinning the book. "The Dawkins Delusion" by Alister McGrath was also highly entertaining (and educational), and a convincing rejoinder to the former, written by a scholar with earned Oxford doctorates in both Molecular Biophysics and Theology. What McGrath did very well, was to demonstrate Dawkins' logical, philosophical and theological misunderstandings and fallacies in a way that the average person could readily grasp. McGrath has also written, "Genes, Memes and the Meaning of Life", "A Fine-tuned Universe: A Quest for God in Science and Theology" and "Glimpsing the Face of God", all aimed at the "popular" market. However, he has published several far meatier volumes: "The Science of God", which serves as an introduction to McGrath's scholarly work in the field; and his three-volume opus, "Scientific Theology". Anyone capable of second and third-order thinking, and who isn't afraid of slowly digesting and pondering significant technical discussions, will find the latter trilogy to be very rewarding, and often confronting, reading!

Works that I thoroughly enjoyed and can recommend which are pro-evolution include: "Science, Evolution and Creationism" by the American National Academy of Sciences and Medicine; "Evolution" by Barton, Briggs et al; "Your Inner Fish" by Shubin, and "Relics of Eden: the Powerful Evidence of Evolution in Human DNA" by Fairbanks. Most of these would probably fit the "for well-educated readers" category.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Bobupanddown Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #58
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:04/01/2010 9:22 PMCopy HTML

Fascinating, but why use ten words when one will suffice, why use language that one would not normally associated with, or would you...

From a male perspective words take time the fewer you use and the shorter they are, the more concise argument.
glossolalia Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #59
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:04/01/2010 9:33 PMCopy HTML

Huh?
[URL]http://www.whyilefttherevivalfellowship.com[/URL]
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #60
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:16/07/2010 2:39 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Is it logical to admire someone who, according to his only, man-edited, holy book, commanded genocide, rape, and baby-killing?


Please let me know whether or not you're prepared to have your understanding on each of the above points challenged, okay? You might be surprised at what results.

This is something i struggle with, so I'm ready to hear about the genocide and baby-killing bit.


(Message edited by Didaktikon On 14/11/2009 4:46 AM)



Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #61
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:17/07/2010 12:30 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest

This is something i struggle with, so I'm ready to hear about the genocide and baby-killing bit.


Oh yes please. Me too!

ColinXY Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #62
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 12:38 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Hi, "Gloss".

I fail to see how Christianity is a logical worldview.

Okay. But have you honestly investigated (1) biblical Christianity, or simply misinterpretations of the same? And (2) do you fully understand what is intended by the term "logic"? In other words, are you sufficiently well versed in philosophy and philosophical hermeneutics to be able to denounce the Christian world-view as being somehow "illogical"?

I'll bite. What is "biblical Christianity"? The Revival Centres would have believed that their brand of Christianity was, is and will be biblical. I have a sneaky suspicion that your definition of biblical Christianity is the brand you now keep, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Logic does not make anything right or wrong of itself. It just makes things logical. For example the four humours of Medieval (and later) medicine was perfectly logical; wrong, but it was logical.

Is it logical to admire someone who, according to his only, man-edited, holy book, commanded genocide, rape, and baby-killing?

Please let me know whether or not you're prepared to have your understanding on each of the above points challenged, okay? You might be surprised at what results.

This should be fun to read. I do hope you have something original that Christian apologists have so far being unable to hand-wave away.



Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #63
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 1:05 AMCopy HTML

"Logic does not make anything right or wrong of itself. It just makes things logical".

So does that apply to your brand of a "logical" world view also? A bit self defeating I would say.


I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
ColinXY Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #64
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 2:02 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Biblianut

"Logic does not make anything right or wrong of itself. It just makes things logical".

So does that apply to your brand of a "logical" world view also? A bit self defeating I would say.



I fail to see your point. Logic is a mechanism. Of itself it does not make anything right or wrong; if your starting premise is wrong, the rest of your argument may be logical, but your result will still be wrong.

Ergo my comment about the four humours. They're completely logical yet wrong, because their starting assumptions are wrong.

Do you get my point about logic being a mechanism?

Aquinas' Summa Theologiae is a beautiful tract on logic to prove the existence of God, yet fails to do so because of his starting assumptions (things being self-evident is a dead give away.) So much so that his assumptions wrong that Theologians do not use the Summa in their arguments for the existence of God to this day (well Theologians to my knowledge at any rate, and I have looked extensively.) I bring this up as another example of logic being used, but the results are wrong.

Do I use logic? Well I hope so, but each step, from start to finish, has to be correct for logic to be of any use. This is why Atheists want Theists to define their arguments/terminology at the start so much and why we reject the biblical kind (of animals), because Theists keep refusing to define it.


Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #65
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 3:07 AMCopy HTML

"Do I use logic? Well I hope so, but each step, from start to finish, has to be correct for logic to be of any use. This is why Atheists want Theists to define their arguments/terminology at the start so much and why we reject the biblical kind (of animals), because Theists keep refusing to define it"

I don't wish to get into much debate as I do not have the 'qualifications' to argue with you on philosophical matters.( Let's wait and see if one more learned will respond your world view)

Suffice to say, you cannot prove something that is 'infinite' by that which is 'finite', it is atheists in general that hold the burden of proof to prove that God does not exist. Logically of otherwise.


'

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
ColinXY Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #66
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 3:47 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Biblianut

"Do I use logic? Well I hope so, but each step, from start to finish, has to be correct for logic to be of any use. This is why Atheists want Theists to define their arguments/terminology at the start so much and why we reject the biblical kind (of animals), because Theists keep refusing to define it"

I don't wish to get into much debate as I do not have the 'qualifications' to argue with you on philosophical matters.( Let's wait and see if one more learned will respond your world view)

Suffice to say, you cannot prove something that is 'infinite' by that which is 'finite', it is atheists in general that hold the burden of proof to prove that God does not exist. Logically of otherwise.


'


No, not at all. Your attempt to shift the burden of proof is fallacious. Atheists do not make claims that God(s) exist; that's what Theists do. Theists make a positive claim that God does exist.

The Atheist point of view is to look at the evidence (or lack thereof) that Theists make. To date they offer nothing compelling. If you want Atheists to believe in God, present the evidence.

Integers are infinite. Rational numbers are infinite. Human stupidity is probably infinite. I have no idea what point you are driving at with 'finite' cannot prove something that is 'infinite.' That just seems like a cop out.
Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #67
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 6:32 AMCopy HTML

"Integers are infinite. Rational numbers are infinite. Human stupidity is probably infinite."

OK, you acknowledge that infinite things do exist. Why not an infinite mind (GOD) then?

Take the number  'one' for instance;  

Where or from who did that originate. Was it some ancient that pencilled a stroke in the ground and suddenly decided to call it one or did the thought just enter his mind and who put it there.? Without 1 there wouldn't be 2 and so on, therefore mathematics wouldn't exist. You would acknowledge some infinite mind and there is design in that?  Surely you can see nature itself is perfectly designed and tuned to an order that we and all living can exist?  This is what Genesis 1 is all about.

So I put it to you, where there is design, there must also have been a designer.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
ColinXY Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #68
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 9:07 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Biblianut

"Integers are infinite. Rational numbers are infinite. Human stupidity is probably infinite."

OK, you acknowledge that infinite things do exist. Why not an infinite mind (GOD) then?

Take the number  'one' for instance;  

Where or from who did that originate. Was it some ancient that pencilled a stroke in the ground and suddenly decided to call it one or did the thought just enter his mind and who put it there.? Without 1 there wouldn't be 2 and so on, therefore mathematics wouldn't exist. You would acknowledge some infinite mind and there is design in that?  Surely you can see nature itself is perfectly designed and tuned to an order that we and all living can exist?  This is what Genesis 1 is all about.

So I put it to you, where there is design, there must also have been a designer.


No proof has been offered of an infinite mind. Ergo I fail to see any proof of a god. If you have evidence of an infinite mind, present it.

The number one probably originated in language: singular and plural, e.g. he and they. I fail  to see the link between mathematics therefore God.

No, I do not see a designer or even "design" in nature. I see links between relative species and mistakes or advantages passed onto successive species. There is no need for a designer and one makes little sense when examining genetics of relative species (phylogenetics.) This is extremely blatant in human chromosome 2; humans have 23 chromosome pairs versus the great apes' 24 chromosome pair. Chromosome 2 demonstrates overwhelming evidence of having combined two chromosomes from a common ape ancestor. I think this webpage sums it up quite simply and succinctly: http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm


Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #69
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 10:02 AMCopy HTML

Honestly, you can't see a design in nature?

Well I for one certainly don't have any answers, other than the persuasion of the bible for your plight, if you can't see such a simple thing as that.

You people make life so complicated for yourselves.

cheers




  


I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:13/04/2015 8:15 PMCopy HTML

Did you bother to read the link I posted on human chromosome 2? This is direct proof that humans were not designed intelligently. Admittedly you could still argue that humans were un-intelligently designed, i.e. God is a poor bio-engineer, but any argument for intelligence is shot in the foot.

In case the significance passes you by telomeres are at the end of chromosomes. They're an indicator of how old you can naturally be, because they protect the chromosome. As you age your telomeres shrink. This is good stuff. That's all telomeres do BTW. If evolution is true, and two chromosomes have joined together, we would find wasted telomeres in the middle of the new chromosome. Chromosome 2 has precisely that. An intelligently designer would not do this (it's a waste), but an un-intelligent designer (e.g. evolution...the blind clockmaker, or perhaps an idiotic or drunk God) would. It's also a blatant example of our ape ancestry.

The link goes into that and more.

Prior to being excommunicated in the Revival Centre I was severely depressed and had been diagnosed as such in my early teenage years. One of my great loves in life was and is learning new things, and how things work. In Christianity (not just RCI) they pretty much rob that; "God did it" or similes are the answer to everything. How boring. One of the ways I recovered from that depression was discovering how the world works. It's a path that is not finished. IOW I welcome the complexity. The Christian life IMHO is a depressingly boring one.


Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #71
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:14/04/2015 9:56 AMCopy HTML

Did you bother to read the link I posted on human chromosome 2?

Yes I did. Doesn't prove anything really except Mutations (genetic mistakes) are often suggested as an evolutionary mechanism but known mutations are usually harmful, often lethal. Many are just meaningless gobbledy gook and none ever adds any useful genetic information.

You are trying to tell me that life was a spontaneous generation, well people believed in that until the 19th century, Pasteur and others showed that life always came from life. We know now that even a single cell is exceedingly complex, yet evolutionists still claim, against all odds, that life arose spontaneously on earth by chance.

A major problem for you evolutionists from Darwin onwards have been the missing links. Why- if everything evolved from a common origin- do we not find fossils of creatures which were transitional? Although billions of fossils have been discovered, not one undisputed 'in-between-link' has turned up! All living organisms seem to have appeared abruptly with no series of fossil forms leading up to them and although some things have become extinct, many have remained unchanged since they first appeared.

I don’t know why you bother; evolution has reached the end of the road and is no longer a credible explanation of life’s origin. Even the popular big-bang theory is running into serious trouble.

The only alternative is that the universe and everything in it is the work of a creator. Thousands of qualified scientists have rejected evolution entirely in favour of the Bible record of creation, as more and more scientific evidence accumulates against it.


(sourced from 'Answers in Genesis')

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
ColinXY Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #72
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Re:Why I left TRF and Christianity - Evolution

Date Posted:14/04/2015 8:00 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Biblianut

Yes I did. Doesn't prove anything really except Mutations (genetic mistakes) are often suggested as an evolutionary mechanism but known mutations are usually harmful, often lethal. Many are just meaningless gobbledy gook and none ever adds any useful genetic information.

So lactose tolerance in European adults isn't a beneficial mutation? So defective gene CCR5 isn't a beneficial mutation? So the wonder kid in Germany (the one with the muscles) doesn't have a beneficial mutation?

You do know offspring, say in human couples, are never quite perfectly half and half of their parents don't you? That the child will have its own small amount of alleles that belong to neither parent.


You are trying to tell me that life was a spontaneous generation, well people believed in that until the 19th century, Pasteur and others showed that life always came from life. We know now that even a single cell is exceedingly complex, yet evolutionists still claim, against all odds, that life arose spontaneously on earth by chance.

You do know that evolution only explains "life always came from life", don't you? What you seem to be confusing and conflating is abiogenesis and evolution. The former attempts to explain the origin of life. The latter is once life has already started. The former still allows for a "God of the Gaps", but that God is diminishing as more and more repeatable experiments show plausible steps towards the origin of life (and no, as I type this, it hasn't been completed.) It is only a matter of time.


A major problem for you evolutionists from Darwin onwards have been the missing links. Why- if everything evolved from a common origin- do we not find fossils of creatures which were transitional?

We do! Once discovered they're no longer missing links, but transitional fossils. I think Aron-ra has put it best when he said something along the lines of "We know when we really have a transitional fossil when creationists argue over whether it belongs to one type or another." We get creationists who will tell biologists that a particular fossil is human and another bunch of creationists will state it is an ape. Classic stuff.

Although billions of fossils have been discovered, not one undisputed 'in-between-link' has turned up! All living organisms seem to have appeared abruptly with no series of fossil forms leading up to them and although some things have become extinct, many have remained unchanged since they first appeared.

Only to those with hands covering their eyes: the willfully ignorant. Heaps and heaps of transitional fossils have turned up. The Wikipedia page is woefully limited, but will serve as a primer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils


I don’t know why you bother; evolution has reached the end of the road and is no longer a credible explanation of life’s origin. Even the popular big-bang theory is running into serious trouble.

I'll bite. How is the popular big bang theory running into serious trouble?

Also stop conflating abiogenesis and evolution. If you didn't know before, you have no excuse anymore.


The only alternative is that the universe and everything in it is the work of a creator. Thousands of qualified scientists have rejected evolution entirely in favour of the Bible record of creation, as more and more scientific evidence accumulates against it.

ROTFLMAO. Right, so plants were created before the sun. The moon is a light source. We live in a snow globe surrounded by water. The Earth was created before the stars. I could go on. Brett Palmer skewers this garbage way much better than I can be bothered to write:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDXgT2QAf0&list=PL32CC279BF7082A24


RCI prophesies
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