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Date Posted:19/12/2006 1:25 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Who the hell would Jesus beat]%*'`@See the women of the GRC cult are not the only ones who are seocnd class cult goers. For those who remember the bus trips you will remember that the girls/women sat at the front of the bus. Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat By Daphna Berman A woman who reported a vicious attack by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" on a Jerusalem bus last month is now lining up support for her case and may be included in a petition to the High Court of Justice over the legality of sex-segregated buses. Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers. In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked "severe beating." Advertisement Shear, an American-Israeli woman who currently lives in Canada, says that on a recent five-week vacation to Israel, she rode the bus daily to the Old City to pray at sunrise. Though not defined by Egged as a sex-segregated "mehadrin" bus, women usually sit in the back, while men sit in the front, as a matter of custom. "Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'" But Shear, a 50-year-old religious woman, says that on the morning of the 24th, a man got onto the bus and demanded her seat - even though there were a number of other seats available in the front of the bus. "I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face." Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle." 'Stupid American' Throughout the encounter, Shear says the bus driver "did nothing." The other passengers, she says, blamed her for not moving to the back of the bus and called her a "stupid American with no sechel [common sense.] People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong." According to Yehoshua Meyer, the eyewitness to the incident, Shear's account is entirely accurate. "I saw everything," he said. "Someone got on the bus and demanded that she go to the back, but she didn't agree. She was badly beaten and her whole body sustained hits and kicks. She tried to fight back and no one would help her. I tried to help, but someone was stopping me from getting up. My phone's battery was dead, so I couldn't call the police. I yelled for the bus driver to stop. He stopped once, but he didn't do anything. When we finally got to the Kotel [Western Wall], she was beaten badly and I helped her go to the police." Shear says that when she first started riding the No. 2 line, she did not even know that it was sometimes sex-segregated. She also says that sitting in the front is simply more comfortable. "I'm a 50-year-old woman and I don't like to sit in the back. I'm dressed appropriately and I was on a public bus." "It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else." Meyer says that throughout the incident, the other passengers blamed Shear for not sitting in the back. "They'll probably claim that she attacked them first, but that's totally untrue. She was abused terribly, and I've never seen anything like it." Word of Shear's story traveled quickly after she forwarded an e-mail detailing her experience. She has been contacted by a number of groups, including Shatil, the New Israel Fund's Empowerment and Training Center for Social Change; Kolech, a religious women's forum; the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), the legal advocacy arm of the local Reform movement; and the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance (JOFA). In the coming month, IRAC will be submitting a petition to the High Court of Justice against the Transportation Ministry over the issue of segregated Egged buses. IRAC attorney Orly Erez-Likhovski is in touch with Shear and is considering including her in the petition. Although the No. 2 Jerusalem bus where the incident occurred is not actually defined as a mehadrin line, Erez-Likhovski says that Shear's story is further proof that the issue requires legal clarification. About 30 Egged buses are designated as mehadrin, mostly on inter-city lines, but they are not marked to indicate this. "There's no way to identify a mehadrin bus, which in itself is a problem," she said. "Theoretically, a person can sit wherever they want, even on a mehadrin line, but we're seeing that people are enforcing [the gender segregation] even on non-mehadrin lines and that's the part of the danger," she said. On a mehadrin bus, women enter and exit through the rear door, and the seats from the rear door back are generally considered the "women's section." A child is usually sent forward to pay the driver. The official responses In a response from Egged, the bus driver denied that Shear was physically attacked in any way. "In a thorough inquiry that we conducted, we found that the bus driver does not confirm that any violence was used against the complainant," Egged spokesman Ron Ratner wrote. "According to the driver, once he saw that there was a crowd gathering around her, he stopped the bus and went to check what was going on. He clarified to the passengers that the bus was not a mehadrin line and that all passengers on the line are permitted to sit wherever they want on the bus. After making sure that the passengers returned to their seats, he continued driving." The Egged response also noted that their drivers "are not able and are not authorized to supervise the behavior of the passengers in all situations." Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Avner Ovadia said in response that the mehadrin lines are "the result of agreements reached between Egged and Haredi bodies" and are therefore unconnected to the ministry. A spokesperson for the Jerusalem police said the case is still under investigation.
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Re:Who would jesus beat the hell out of???

Date Posted:19/12/2006 1:25 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Who the hell would Jesus beat]%*'`@See the women of the GRC cult are not the only ones who are seocnd class cult goers.
For those who remember the bus trips you will remember that the girls/women sat at the front of the bus.


Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat
By Daphna Berman

A woman who reported a vicious attack by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" on a Jerusalem bus last month is now lining up support for her case and may be included in a petition to the High Court of Justice over the legality of sex-segregated buses.

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus. She is now in touch with several legal advocacy and women's organizations, and at the same time, waiting for the police to apprehend her attackers.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women. The bus driver, in response to a media inquiry, denied that violence was used against her, but Shear's account has been substantiated by an unrelated eyewitness on the bus who confirmed that she sustained an unprovoked "severe beating."

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Shear, an American-Israeli woman who currently lives in Canada, says that on a recent five-week vacation to Israel, she rode the bus daily to the Old City to pray at sunrise. Though not defined by Egged as a sex-segregated "mehadrin" bus, women usually sit in the back, while men sit in the front, as a matter of custom.

"Every two or three days, someone would tell me to sit in the back, sometimes politely and sometimes not," she recalled this week in a telephone interview. "I was always polite and said 'No. This is not a synagogue. I am not going to sit in the back.'"

But Shear, a 50-year-old religious woman, says that on the morning of the 24th, a man got onto the bus and demanded her seat - even though there were a number of other seats available in the front of the bus.

"I said, I'm not moving and he said, 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you.' Then he spat in my face and at that point, I was in high adrenaline mode and called him a son-of-a-bitch, which I am not proud of. Then I spat back. At that point, he pushed me down and people on the bus were screaming that I was crazy. Four men surrounded me and slapped my face, punched me in the chest, pulled at my clothes, beat me, kicked me. My snood [hair covering] came off. I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face."

Shear says that when she bent down in the aisle to retrieve her hair covering, "one of the men kicked me in the face. Thank God he missed my eye. I got up and punched him. I said, 'I want my hair covering back' but he wouldn't give it to me, so I took his black hat and threw it in the aisle."

'Stupid American'

Throughout the encounter, Shear says the bus driver "did nothing." The other passengers, she says, blamed her for not moving to the back of the bus and called her a "stupid American with no sechel [common sense.] People blamed me for not knowing my place and not going to the back of the bus where I belong."

According to Yehoshua Meyer, the eyewitness to the incident, Shear's account is entirely accurate. "I saw everything," he said. "Someone got on the bus and demanded that she go to the back, but she didn't agree. She was badly beaten and her whole body sustained hits and kicks. She tried to fight back and no one would help her. I tried to help, but someone was stopping me from getting up. My phone's battery was dead, so I couldn't call the police. I yelled for the bus driver to stop. He stopped once, but he didn't do anything. When we finally got to the Kotel [Western Wall], she was beaten badly and I helped her go to the police."

Shear says that when she first started riding the No. 2 line, she did not even know that it was sometimes sex-segregated. She also says that sitting in the front is simply more comfortable. "I'm a 50-year-old woman and I don't like to sit in the back. I'm dressed appropriately and I was on a public bus."

"It is very dangerous for a group of people to take control over a public entity and enforce their will without going through due process," she said. "Even if they [Haredim who want a segregated bus] are a majority - and I don't think they are - they have options available. They can petition Egged or hire their own private line. But as long as it's a public bus, I don't care if there are 500 people telling me where to sit. I can sit wherever I want and so can anyone else."

Meyer says that throughout the incident, the other passengers blamed Shear for not sitting in the back. "They'll probably claim that she attacked them first, but that's totally untrue. She was abused terribly, and I've never seen anything like it."

Word of Shear's story traveled quickly after she forwarded an e-mail detailing her experience. She has been contacted by a number of groups, including Shatil, the New Israel Fund's Empowerment and Training Center for Social Change; Kolech, a religious women's forum; the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), the legal advocacy arm of the local Reform movement; and the Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance (JOFA).

In the coming month, IRAC will be submitting a petition to the High Court of Justice against the Transportation Ministry over the issue of segregated Egged buses. IRAC attorney Orly Erez-Likhovski is in touch with Shear and is considering including her in the petition.

Although the No. 2 Jerusalem bus where the incident occurred is not actually defined as a mehadrin line, Erez-Likhovski says that Shear's story is further proof that the issue requires legal clarification. About 30 Egged buses are designated as mehadrin, mostly on inter-city lines, but they are not marked to indicate this. "There's no way to identify a mehadrin bus, which in itself is a problem," she said.

"Theoretically, a person can sit wherever they want, even on a mehadrin line, but we're seeing that people are enforcing [the gender segregation] even on non-mehadrin lines and that's the part of the danger," she said.

On a mehadrin bus, women enter and exit through the rear door, and the seats from the rear door back are generally considered the "women's section." A child is usually sent forward to pay the driver.

The official responses

In a response from Egged, the bus driver denied that Shear was physically attacked in any way.

"In a thorough inquiry that we conducted, we found that the bus driver does not confirm that any violence was used against the complainant," Egged spokesman Ron Ratner wrote.

"According to the driver, once he saw that there was a crowd gathering around her, he stopped the bus and went to check what was going on. He clarified to the passengers that the bus was not a mehadrin line and that all passengers on the line are permitted to sit wherever they want on the bus. After making sure that the passengers returned to their seats, he continued driving."

The Egged response also noted that their drivers "are not able and are not authorized to supervise the behavior of the passengers in all situations."

Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Avner Ovadia said in response that the mehadrin lines are "the result of agreements reached between Egged and Haredi bodies" and are therefore unconnected to the ministry.

A spokesperson for the Jerusalem police said the case is still under investigation.
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Re:Who would jesus beat the hell out of???

Date Posted:22/12/2006 2:31 AMCopy HTML

I know I know I'm going to get into trouble for posting this. but the truth is the truth is the truth and it doesn't matter what people want to believe.


Sever Plocker



Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Published: 12.21.06, 23:35

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.



Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.



We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.



Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.



In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.



Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.



All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.



And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."



Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.



Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.



Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.



In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.



The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.



Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin.
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Re:Who would jesus beat the hell out of???

Date Posted:23/12/2006 4:31 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Who would Jesus beat the sh*t]%*'`@Holocaust Jew accused of war crimes
By Allan Hall
Age Correspondent
Berlin
July 11, 2005

An old Jewish man who took his own cold-blooded revenge against Germans for the Holocaust will not be extradited back to Poland from Israel to answer charges of genocide.

The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history where a Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans.

It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be responsible.

Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.

Mr Morel, who came from the little Polish town of Grabowo, claims he was an Auschwitz survivor whose family was murdered by the Nazis during World War II. A book, An Eye for an Eye, which documents his strange life, claims his family was indeed liquidated, but by Poles who collaborated with the Nazis. It also says that he was never imprisoned by the Germans.
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By 1943 he was employed peeling potatoes for a Jewish partisan brigade before escaping to the Soviet Union, where he trained in the gruesome interrogation methods of the NKVD, Stalin's political police, before returning to Poland in 1945. He was then put in charge by the communists of a camp containing thousands of German prisoners including SS men, soldiers and civilians.

John Sack, the Jewish-American author of An Eye for an Eye, claims Mr Morel, as commandant of Swietochlowice Camp, morphed into the kind of monster that would have been welcomed by the Gestapo.

"His favourite method of killing prisoners was hacking the skull of his victims with a wooden leg of a chair," according to the book. "It is quite possible that in Swietochlowice several thousand persons were murdered by Morel and his men."

They would beat them and throw the bodies out of the window."
Camp survivor

Sack's book, and a score of Polish books and newspaper articles, said he beat, shot, starved, tortured and killed with gusto in the camp.

"I knew Morel in the camp. He was a very brutal man," survivor Dorota Boriczek said. "He was young then. He would come in at night. We could hear the cries of the men then. They would beat them and throw the bodies out of the window."

In 1989, a Polish reporter found Mr Morel living in a part of Katowice assigned for former uniformed functionaries of communist terror.

In the early 1990s, the Main Commission for the Investigations of Crimes Against the Polish Nation started an official investigation of Mr Morel's activities in the Swietochlowice Camp after witness articles appeared in the press.

In 1994, Mr Morel sought political asylum in Sweden. This was refused. He then successfully sought sanctuary in Israel.

Poland tried to extradite him seven years ago on torture charges. Israel refused. So prosecutors began preparing a genocide case, for which there is no statute of limitations.

Last week, they received a blank refusal from Israel saying "there was no basis whatsoever" to extradite Mr Morel.

A Polish prosecutor said testimony from former inmates documented Mr Morel's torture of at least 13 prisoners.

"There should be one measure for judging war criminals, irrespective whether they are German, Israeli, or any other nationality," the prosecutor said.
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Re:Who would jesus beat the hell out of???

Date Posted:27/12/2006 4:53 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[I'm not a jew nor are you]%*'`@This is my last word on this subject. Unless you still don't get it!!!
The Church On the Way's Answer to Project Strait Gate's Open Letter to Pastor Jack Hayford
Charles E. Carlson Dec 14, 2006


Seven ladies and four men took up posts on the public sidewalks of the two street-exposed sides of The Church On The Way Sunday morning, December 3, 2006, in Van Nuys, CA. Inside the church, Pastor Jack Hayford spoke about the demonstration before his sermon.



The Church On The Way's ushers then distributed a printed half-page antidote to Project Strait Gate: Where Do We stand?-- Concerning the commentary and critique presented by the group conducting "The Vigil." It reads in part:

"Outside our sanctuary today, you may have noticed some individuals picketing or distributing literature opposing The Church On The Way...The distinct sense of duty we hold toward honoring the Jewish peoples and Israel are based on the instructions of God's Word (Romans 9-11), and we hold no apology for that Biblical stance."(Endnote 1)



The Elders' statement is clearly an answer to the Open Letter to: The Church On The Way, Pastor Jack Hayford, by Charles E. Carlson, Dec 03, 2006. (Endnote 2)



Where Do We stand?-- goes on to say that the Church believes in praying "equally" for Jews and Palestinians and Arabs.



However, the attendees' attitudes did not reflect this even-handedness; many of those who came and went told us in plainest of language: "This Church is for Israel."

Few, if any, said anything about praying for Arabs. Furthermore, at least three of the Vigilers had attended or still attend the church, and none could recall hearing any specific prayers for the Palestinians or Arabs or Iraqi victims.



Positive results were noted by the Vigilers, who stood at their posts for fully four hours. Laura, on her first Vigil, stated:

"I had several people approach me, more curious than anything. With the exception of the guards swiping the articles out of the hands of the parishioners and stating, "You don't need to read this", I found people rather open...the highlight of the vigil for me came in the last 30 minutes. First, as I was standing alone on the corner of the block as the church let out, holding the "Who Would Jesus Bomb?" sign, two men passed me and commented, "Now that is Christlike!"...What was frustrating for me was that the parishioners kept asking me, 'What do you get out of this,' and I didn't have an answer."



Some showed they were angry; one Vigiler reported she was intentionally bumped by a church official on the sidewalk and a few improper words were reported by both sides between attendees leaving after the sermon and Vigil members. One lady vigiler said she was grateful for the presence of a TCOTW pastor who kept a protective eye on her. Many positive responses were also reported. We were especially encouraged by the extensive, friendly and honest scriptural discussions we had with some of the younger Pastors, who took literature and exchanged addresses with Vigilers.

After more than 55 vigils we find each new one is a learning experience. The Church On The Way used a dozen or more men and several women, including at least six of its staff Pastors and a flock of Elders, to create a defense against Project Strait Gate information. It was formidable.

Greeters on the sidewalks and parking lots escorted attendees past us...a female Vigiler said it reminded her of the abortion clinic's response to a demonstration for life in front of a Planned Parenthood Clinic. Escorts met the incoming attendees and warned them not to talk to us. One or two used basketball style offensive tactics to screen off the incoming guest from the Vigiler's handout's. But we are determined and resourceful and a good amount of literature got through to those coming and going.



The Church on the Way arranged its second defensive perimeter on church private property, which we were warned not to trespass. There they confronted the minority who had accepted our literature. Several of the six staff pastors present, plus a dozen or more ?Elders' gently lifted (and presumably destroyed) the Project Strait Gate literature from the hands of the parishioners, usually with a few whispered words in the ear of each.



One was about 17 years old, and had accepted our three pamphlets from this writer with a few words of advice about thinking for himself. He was with a female parent and some siblings. As soon as he crossed into private property a youngish pastor confronted him and adroitly plucked the papers from his hand, prying them loose with a few quiet words in his ear.



Your writer could not resist a speech at point blank range. My words could be clearly heard by all nearby as I scolded the pastor, accusing him of insulting the intelligence of the entire congregation and depriving this young man of the right to read and think for himself. I did not let up, but asked the young man to return from the church ground and talk to me in the neutral zone. He did not, but he listened, and finally the small group, seemingly embarrassed, huddled in prayer around him. The Prayer was about Project Strait Gate. The young man faced me while the lengthy prayers were spoken, obviously confused, intimidated and stunned by the attention he had gotten. I doubt if he will ever forget the seed planted that morning in Van Nuys, CA.



Group imprecations (condemnatory prayers) and curses are not new to Project Strait Gate volunteers. The important question is this:

What does Strait Gate Ministries know that The Church On The Way does not want its attendees to read or hear?



For an answer we turn to the flier TCOTW officials handed out to each attendee when he or she left. Where Do We stand?-- Concerning the commentary and critique presented by the group conducting The Vigil, provides what seems to be Jack Hayford's transparent and confusing scriptural support for his false prophecy in support for Israel. It is worth discussing. It cites: "Romans 9-11" as justification for placing the present state of Israel ahead of the rest of humanity.



Pastor Hayford could hardly have chosen better words to make our case than we find in these 86 verses in which there is a clear context that denies the prophecy he preaches in his pulpit and tape ministry. In general, the letter from Apostle Paul to the Roman Church contains nothing that would allow a follower of Christ to sit idly by while Arab women and children are murdered, much less to cheer on Israel's daily assassinations of its neighbors.



On the contrary, Paul speaks much about the corruption of those claiming to be Abraham's physical descendants" and what a sorry lot that they had become in the first century BC. Paul also clearly states in Romans 10:12 that, under the new covenant of Jesus, there can be no racism:

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;"



How could Project Strait Gate have chosen a verse that more clearly states our case? No one who claims to be on the Strait Way of Jesus can place Israeli's lives ahead of Arab lives! The apostle Paul clearly tells his followers that "Jews and Greeks" (non-Jews) are all the same to Jesus' from that time forward. The "chosen ones" are those who follow The Way of Christ. Paul himself is a converted Pharisee who says his mission is to the non-Jews, and he tells the Jews living in Rome:

"I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them." (Rom 11: 13-14)



Clearly Paul says he is working hard to evangelize the Greeks so the Jews will see, become jealous, and also follow Jesus, as Paul did. The message of Jesus does away with racism, and is repeated over and over in the 87 verse passage Pastor Hayford cites to make his case, which he says: "The distinct sense of duty we hold toward honoring the Jewish peoples and Israel are based on the instructions of God's Word (Romans 9-11), and we hold no apology for that Biblical stance..."



We agree with the Pastor to the extent that we should honor every Jew who deserves honor, but we should not honor them above other people, nor should we honor those who do evil in front of our eyes, as TCOTW seems to do. Paul tells us in the very chapters Pastor Hayford picked that "the chosen" are not the Israelites who claim they have Abraham's blood, but those who follow in the Way of Christ. Why is The Church on the Way so far from the Strait Gate? How can it dwell in racism when Paul condemns racism in the very chapters this huge church cites as its authority for being racist?



False prophet churches usually deal in Bible snippets, rarely presented in context, as Jack Hayford has done. This writer is surprised, pleased and grateful that he cited three Chapters of Romans...usually we get a smattering of Bible verses cut and pasted together scrabble fashion to confuse and confound us. I thank the Pastor for being so forthright, and we are listing below twelve verses out of those same three Chapters that tell us quite clearly that, (a) those who follow Jesus are the "chosen" ones from his time on, and (b) the Jews of Paul's day were corrupted and lost unless they too followed Christ's Way. (Endnote 3)



If Pastor Hayford's citation is a hasty error or typo and some other chapter and verse was intended, other than Romans 9-11, we invite him to correct himself. Otherwise we would like to hear Pastor's answer to this response. If these are the words Pastor Hayford uses as his excuse for supporting Israel's assassinations, occupation of Palestine, and wars in the Middle East we would like to know how these acts are justified by Christ, who loves all?



Project Strait Gate chose The Church On The Way (and about 54 more) to Vigil because its teachings are apostate and destructive to human life by rendering God's word falsely. The churches we vigil are those that normally ignore the fact that today's Israel is overwhelmingly secular and godless at the very top of its leadership. The European Jews who invaded Arab lands have less gentic connection to Jacob than this writer does to Eric the Red, which is not much. Worse yet they ingnore Abraham's religion, and most deny Christ.



No Israeli alive can prove any lineage to Jacob, Abraham or Ishmael. Abraham's DNA is not available. Yet lineage seems to be what The Church on the Way relies upon, even though Paul denied it. Stripped of the niceties of prayer for all, this church uses supposed bloodlines that were lost three millennia ago to justify pro-Israel racism.



If Pastor Hayford really wants to "love your enemies and do good for those who persecute you," as Jesus instructed, and if its members really pray "equally" for the Palestinians and the Israelis as it claims, Project Strait Gate agrees. We believe we need to treat Arabs and Jews alike. This does not mean allocating them equal prayer time while looking the other way as our government gives guns to the Israelis while systematically starving the Palestinians.



We respectfully ask Jack Hayford to allow us to make a presentation to The Church On The Way. Or at least debate us on this issue on neutral ground. What can they possibly fear from the truth? Such a debate would allow Pastor Hayford to make his case understandable. We suggest this question:

Is the present day political state of Israel a fulfillment of biblical prophesies?



We would like to see Jack Hayford debate "YES", if he really believes this.



Project Strait Gate's says NO!

We say the State of Israel is an artificial, political subdivision, once part of Syria that borrowed its name from an ancient tribe, but was created by the United Nations' edict in 1947, not by the God of Abraham. This Israel is not in the Bible. When a simple majority of 70 million "evangelicals" see it our way there will be lasting peace in the Middle east
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  • Register:06/04/2001 10:54 PM

Re:Who would jesus beat the hell out of???

Date Posted:05/01/2007 1:54 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM]%*'`@I found this at WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM

'My crime was to protest at Israeli assassinations'


?In her first interview, Tali Fahima talks of life in jail
?Activist says she refused to work for secret service

Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv
Friday January 5, 2007
The Guardian

Tali Fahima
Tali Fahima has been released from prison after almost 30 months. Photograph: Tal Cohen/AFP/Getty Images

They said they wanted to teach her to be a "good Jew" as she sat with her arms handcuffed to the legs of her chair for 16 hours a day.

But if Tali Fahima was not prepared to be a good Jew then Shin Bet, the Israeli secret service, was determined to put her in jail for as long as possible regardless of what she did.

Ms Fahima, 30, was released from jail on Wednesday after serving almost 30 months in jail for travelling to the West Bank, meeting an enemy agent and translating a simple army document.

"My first crime was that I refused to work with Shin Bet, the second was that I insisted on going to see the Palestinians and the third was that I protested against the Israeli policy of assassination," Ms Fahima told the Guardian in her first interview since her release.

For nine months of her incarceration she was kept in isolation, without access to any distractions such as books or television. "I used to lie on my bed and think about Jenin, the people I met and wonder how things were going there. I never get bored on my own," she said.

Eventually, Ms Fahima was persuaded by her lawyer to agree to a plea bargain which would mean her serving only 10 months more than the 19 she had already served. It could take as long as a year to be found innocent, she was advised.

She is unbowed by her experience. "I learnt about the nature of Shin Bet, how they terrorise us, both the Israelis and Palestinians. I learnt about the nature of the government, how they do not want us to see what is going on in our name," she said.

Ms Fahima had been an apathetic legal secretary who voted for the rightwing Likud party and carried Israeli prejudices about Palestinians until in 2003 she decided she wanted to understand why the Palestinians were attacking Israel.

She began making regular visits to Jenin, which had been devastated in an Israeli raid earlier that year. She talked to hundreds of people including Palestinian militants and for the first time heard the Palestinian view of the intifada and the difficulty of life under Israeli occupation.

Her meetings with one militant, Zakaria Zubeidi, stood out. Zubeidi was the leader of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade in Jenin whose mother and brother had been killed by the Israelis that year. In countless interviews with journalists, including Israelis, he described how he and his mother had been involved in an Israeli-Palestinian theatre project which was the basis of an internationally-acclaimed Israeli documentary, Arna's Children.

A week before Ms Fahima was arrested in August 2004 she received a phone call from a Shin Bet agent who inquired how she was finding life without work before inviting her to a meeting at her local police station in Kiryat Gat in the south of Israel. She decided not to go. In the month-long interrogation that followed her arrest she was questioned about the people she had met and asked for information which Ms Fahima said she did not have. During this period Shin Bet agents briefed Israeli journalists she had been having an affair with Zubeidi, who was well known to Israelis from newspaper interviews.

"It was a Shin Bet tactic to make me and him seem bad and to delegitimise us both," she said, adding that while it was obvious to some that it was malicious, many, including friends, believed it.

When she was finally charged she was accused of translating an army document which apparently detailed an arrest operation that was due to take place.

"In the wake of the explanations of the accused," read the charge sheet, "Zubeidi later ordered the wanted persons to hide until the conclusion of the military operation and the wanted persons, who carried out Zubeidi's directive and hid, were not detained."

The document contains three aerial maps of Jenin, and four photographs of wanted men, including Zubeidi, with a short description of each. Zubeidi speaks and reads Hebrew after years of work and imprisonment in Israel.
RCI prophesies
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