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Date Posted:17/01/2005 5:46 PMCopy HTML

Hi Troy,http://www.tentmaker.org is a lot on there to read and ponder. Fascinating reading to be honest.I have spent a lot of time over the years reading the stuff attentmakers. I'd have to say that universalism fascinates me more than any other belief. I'm sure you've read some of the articles byJ. Preston Eby? website has some really really really (really) thought provoking stuff.And Iwant to believe this stuff because it makes so much sense to me, yet it runs against everything I've ever believed... and everything my friends and family believe. Does that make it wrong? I wish I had more time to get into it. Do I dare, do I dare believe that God is that good, that forgiving and understanding? That Jesus really died so that'all'would be saved? ThatEVERYknee shall bow and tongue confess? That we are all equal in his sight? That he is no respecter of persons? Or is it too easy... too loving. God would have it so that all would be saved. One may be limiting God if one was to say that He couldn't pull it off. I wouldn't put it passed him... 'cause I think an omnipotent being is incapable of nothing.The following article is the most impressive read I've ever given my time to. It has had a lot of impact on me in the last couple of years.Job... a keystone to the bible, in my opinion. Anyone wary about shaking the pillars of their belief systems beware because this is the sort of stuff that makes Revival pastors ban their congregations from reading other material.If you have 10 minutes spare have a read andmake a comment.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank][/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Date Posted:18/01/2005 8:42 AMCopy HTML

Maybe no one will go to hell! Hmmmmmm
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Date Posted:19/01/2005 6:39 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Merry Menagerie

Maybe no one will go to hell! Hmmmmmm
Yeah, and if this is the case then it certainly changes one's perception of God.  No more sending people to the eternal concentration camp of his own creation?  Sounds like a much nicer fellow now.
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Date Posted:03/08/2006 4:35 PMCopy HTML

Christian Universalism is an option
The following post was found at the Aimoo 'Walkaway' forum and is an interesting concept I used to play with. The responses to that initial post are very compelling and worth a read.

I am exploring Christian Universalism.  I don't want to give up the Bible.  I don't want to give up Christianity.  However, I am coming to believe more and more that Christianity in general has presented a very lop-sided view of salvation vs damnation.  There are verses which seem to teach eternal damnation, but there are plenty of verses which seem to present universal redemption, too.  Why choose to defend eternal damnation and explain away the other verses?  Why not choose to defend universal redemption, and then find interpretations of the eternal damnation verses?  (One important point is that the words translated "forever and ever" are actually better translated as "an age" of indeterminate time.)  Anyway, if some of you have been wondering about this, here are some Bible verses that support Christian Universalism.  This turns Christianity from a gloomy religion into a very optimistic, cheerful religion:
Psalm 65:2-3
2  O you who hear prayer, to you all men will come.
3  When we were overwhelmed by sins, you forgave our transgressions.
Psalm 145:8-9
8  The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
9  The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.
Psalm 145:13-17
13  Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures through all generations. The LORD is faithful to all his promises and loving towards all he has made.
14  The LORD upholds all those who fall and lifts up all who are bowed down.
15  The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food at the proper time.
16  You open your hand and satisfy the desires of every living thing.
17  The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving towards all he has made.
Luke 3:4-6
4  As is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet: "A voice of one calling in the desert, ?Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.
5  Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth.
6  And all mankind will see God's salvation.'"
John 3:16-17
16  "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
John 12:32
32  But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
Romans 5:17-18
17  For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
Romans 11:32
32  For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
I Corinthians 15:20-28
20 ?nbsp; But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21  For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22  For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23  But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24  Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25  For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26  The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27  For he "has put everything under his feet". Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28  When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Ephesians 1:9-10
9  And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10  to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfilment?to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
Philippians 2:9-11
9  Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10  that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11  and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Colossians 1:19-20
19  For God was pleased to have all his fulness dwell in him,
20  and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
I Timothy 2:3-6
3  This is good, and pleases God our Saviour,
4  who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5  For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6  who gave himself as a ransom for all men?the testimony given in its proper time.
I Timothy 4:9-10
9  This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
10  (and for this we labour and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, and especially of those who believe.
I John 2:1-2
1 ?nbsp; My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defence?Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
2  He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
The point is:  some kind of judgment on sin DOES happen, but God is fair and measured.  To put it bluntly:  Hitler WILL suffer, but not forever.  God will even redeem him, eventually.  I think this view of redemption brings more glory to God then the believe in eternal suffering of the lost.  God is so great that someday He will save everyone.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank][/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Date Posted:28/09/2006 11:22 PMCopy HTML

Lately, I've been feeling myself generate some bitterness towards christians. I've been sympathising with all sorts of different religions and with the rights of people to believe in anything they like, yet on the other hand I've been quick to try and cut down Christianity. Not fair and not right. True, there are the zealots who deserve some disdain, but generally it's a peaceful harmless church IF its members actually think about what Jesus said rather than mindlessly worshipping him as some untouchable God the size of the cosmos.

Millions of people love the bible. It's an interesting book. Despite the incoherency of many of my posts, I hold some reverence for it. I find there to be some core messages there that have great significance for us to explore. Heck, I know I'm not alone there... many of us have spent hundreds of hours pouring over the thing. It can be as simple as you like or more complex than you can imagine. I want to sum the whole sixty six books up with this thought... and it's not a new one:

We do good things because we feel good when we do... when we do bad or evil things, we feel miserable.

There's currently theories being researched, in cognitive neuroscience that is quickly becoming factual, that say our minds benefit greatly from the endorphins generated when we do or cause to do positive actions. Call it Karma.. call it what you will, but there's a sense of balance that comes from reaping what's been sewn.

It's an imperfect world and there are many reasons for this.

  • Defective genes
  • Chemical imbalances
  • Psychological problems
  • lack of / defective education
  • and basic imbalance of self attention

I think there are ideas and concepts in the bible that push us to move on and over these things... but we have to have a desire to want to improve the lot in life that befalls our neighbours and our society. The wacky christians who seem to be annoying me nowadays do so because they take some of these concepts that are real and relevant for society and wave their arms towards the ceiling in the hope that Super Jesus will either save us from the fires that try our spirit or destroy the bloody planet and start again.

It's Jesus' turn to be saved... He needs to be saved from the churches and cults... He needs to be saved from the arrogant (and non-arrogant) theologians... from the warmongers. If you love the bible, good. Good... there's a lot to work with in there. You can spit out the stuff that doesn't work for ya... you don't have to use it as a weapon to derail the seeming stupidity of others. There's a core message that can be seen in many religions. The new commandment.. the beattitudes...

Is my writing getting any better? Am I relying on the three dots too much? ...?

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank][/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
RCI prophesies
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