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anon1
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Date Posted:04/06/2007 9:54 PMCopy HTML

Hi SOTTin a previous thread, you were grilled by a number of individuals who happened to take a dislike to you. You indicated you'd not bother contributing anymore to this forum. Please reconsider....I would like to ask you to continue contributing to this site. Someone who has theological (academic) training (to a PhD level) is a valuable resource. Others may not always agree with you (particularly in the way you deliver your opinions) but that's their problem. Granted it is not necessary to have a degree to read the scriptures, but you have specialised in revivalist teaching, and are well qualified to comment on CAI doctrine,(Scott pretty much lifted the entire revivalist teaching to the CAI !). Therefore you have an interest and valid enough reason for contributing to this forum.I suspect I am not the only one who'd like to see your continued presence in the CAI forum. Please don't be discouraged to contribute and keep challenging people and opinions, or identifying inconsistancies etc. This'll be a sadder forum if there aren't people to counter balance the narrow-interpretation of scripture we have here (some to lesser or greater degrees).anon1PS - you do occasionally do come across a little "full of yourself" sometimes, but carry on - your obviously then only a human and not perfect !.
It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.
Unkoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:04/06/2007 10:42 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : anon1

Hi SOTTin a previous thread, you were grilled by a number of individuals who happened to take a dislike to you. You indicated you'd not bother contributing anymore to this forum. Please reconsider....I would like to ask you to continue contributing to this site. Someone who has theological (academic) training (to a PhD level) is a valuable resource. Others may not always agree with you (particularly in the way you deliver your opinions) but that's their problem.

I would invite you all to venture into the other rooms outside of the CAI thread and post inquiries in them if you're interested in engaging Ian in an open forum discussion. We encourage ex-members of Revival churches to discuss such doctrinal and biblical issues there rather than in these 'in-house' church rooms, which are inherently cliquey. I think SOTT may be more inclined to field questions in a more neutral territories such as those. I don't know what his thoughts are on that, but I do hope he feels free to contribute wherever he likes.

I've closed the window for anonymous posters for the time being as the vibe seems to get too nasty.

Here are the rooms I recommend for criticising and discussing Revival theologies:

The Bible and Beliefs Room
In this forum we invite posters to engage in topics of theology and Christian doctrine. Ideally we expect rational engagement and encourage posters to be respectful of others, to respond to ideas and to refrain from personal attacks.

Things we 'USED TO BELIEVE' in Revival Churches
This forum is for the debate and discussion of doctrines, beliefs and practices specific to any or all of the Revival Centre groups, splinter groups from them and also similar (copycat) groups.

Unkoolmail

"As man is, so is his God; And thus is God, oft strangely odd" - Goethe

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley
Fred Block Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:04/06/2007 10:52 PMCopy HTML

Hi SOTT,

I agree with anon1 and ask you kindly to stay and contribute your profound knowledge about the word of god. I still remember the time (3-4 years ago) when you always ask questions in the old Forum (closed by Scotties lawyers) which the poor people of the CAI-teaching department had to answer. Even Scott started to communicate with you and tried to convince you about the CAI-Teaching. Later as he couldn't achieve his purpose (to get you as trophy) the poor teaching department had to answer. Ask George B. (as the head of the teaching department at that time) - but I guess they had sleepless nights to find an approbiate twisted CAI-Answer. As Georg B. is now asking you in this forum honestly questions means something. So please stay as you can for sure help quite a lot people out there.

So long
Fred Block
Light-the-darkness Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:04/06/2007 11:47 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anon 1 / Fred Block
 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you both. Take the advise from Unkoolman - for sure this is much better.

Ltd.

Overcoming the fear of Man.
anon1 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 1:14 AMCopy HTML

Hi unkoolman

thanks for the links -  yep you're  right,  there are  other associated forums dedicated  for  discussing  doctrine etc; just those spouting-off scripture  deserve to be challenged every so often.... how's to say they are correct  ?! 

I guess we're a typical (religious/revivalist ?) clique - I guess I'll continue every so often expounding and  exhorting my CAI/exCAI towards  heathen and unchristian possibilities - I wouldn't  want to give those versed in bible-verse the m0nopoly; eh MailBoy !!!

anon1

It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.
george-b Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 2:47 AMCopy HTML

Hi SOTT,

I agree. Your manner does tend to rub people the wrong way (and it is not just because of your message). Anyways - I personally would really appreciate it if you would stick around and contribute. It would be very helpful indeed.

George.

iclockedout4u Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 4:02 AMCopy HTML

Hi SOTT,

I just read in your recent post on another topic that you effectively feel you cannot give CAI folk too much credit on account of us being taken in and duped by a fat, homosexual, dictator, etc etc...   

That's quite an arrogant thing for you to say.

Unlike most ex-CAI folk who have really been through the spiritual mill, it sounds like you are bitter towards us (or yourself?) because you have done nothing but bury your head in books but never actually done much old fashioned christian stuff?  Is that the case?  CAI may be a cult at it's core, but some of the people on this forum (like George and others who have asked for your input) have several times packed up their entire lives and gone to some far flung corner of the earth to spread the Gospel out of sincerety, and seperate to Scott's personal agenda.  Out on a limb and away from ASW, they lived by faith and were forced to draw as much strength from God and the Bible as they possibly could over many, many years.   Within that context, I expect you also could learn a lot here as well as teach a lot - if you would only learn and understand some of the basics, like Matt 5?  Or is the Sermon on the Mount too straightforward for you?

Back to the bottom of the class for you, my boy!!

iclockedout4u

 

Light-the-darkness Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 4:30 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : iclockedout4u

well written.
I see that more and more people get the hint why we had such discussions with Ian all the time. He may have a lot of knowledge what we all would appreciate if he finds the right way to communicate, but ... that's all so far.

Overcoming the fear of Man.
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 10:08 AMCopy HTML

With great trepidation I offer some thoughts on my reaction to SOTT's comments ...


Hi SOTT,I just read in your recent post on another topic that you effectively feel you cannot give CAI folk too much credit on account of us being taken in and duped by a fat, homosexual, dictator, etc etc...That's quite an arrogant thing for you to say.

As a CAI outsider, but RCA/RCI/RF insider, might I venture to say that I took that comment to mean that having once made the mistake of being taken in by false doctrine, I need to be very careful that my current beliefs are not still wrongly tainted by those teachings. Further, since SOTT has thoroughly grounded himself over many years in Christian orthodoxy after years of RCI indoctrination, I would be well advised to carefully evaluate his comments if I wish to align myself with Christian orthodoxy.

As to arrogance, well ... Paul, the Apostles and even Jesus spoke bluntly to well-meaning but mistaken God-fearers, so I need to beware my emotional reaction to the message I'm hearing.


Unlike most ex-CAI folk who have really been through the spiritual mill, it sounds like you are bitter towards us (or yourself?) because you have done nothing but bury your head in books but never actually done much old fashioned christian stuff? 

If you check out other stuff that he's reluctantly posted in response to similar concerns, you'll find that SOTT has been and is very much what I'd call a practical Christian.

iclockedout4u Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 7:30 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : RF_on_the_edge

With great trepidationI offer some thoughts on my reaction to SOTT's comments...Hi SOTT,I just read in your recent post on another topic that you effectively feel you cannot give CAI folk too much credit on account of us being taken in and duped by a fat, homosexual, dictator, etc etc...That's quite an arrogant thing for you to say.As a CAI outsider, but RCA/RCI/RF insider, might I venture to say that I took that comment to mean that having once made the mistake of being taken in by false doctrine,Ineed to beverycareful that my current beliefs are notstillwrongly tainted by those teachings. Further, since SOTT has thoroughly grounded himself over many years in Christian orthodoxy after years of RCI indoc

 

Hi RF,  10 out of 10 for effort but if you read SOTT's comment again you will see that it's as clear as a bell that he is having a pop at ex-CAI folk for being so gullible. 

Anyway, am sure we're all tired of this.   So we'll all just accept that everyone else is paranoid, and in actaul fact SOTT's manner is absolutely fine. 

iclockedout4u.

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 7:37 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : iclockedout4u

Hi SOTT,I just read in your recent post on another topic that you effectively feel you cannot give CAI folk too much credit on account of us being taken in and duped by a fat, homosexual, dictator, etc etc...That's quite an arrogant thing for you to say.

Did he really??! Well ok, but just before you get too tired of talking about it, can we have the exact quote from the post you're talking about and a link to said quote also please... I've seen Ian's work misquoted too many times to just take your word for it, and it doesn't really sound like something he'd say.

I've no doubt that it was a fat dictator with homosexual tendencies that took you in with some eloquent speech, but I have my reservations that Ian would have said not to give you any 'credit' because of it. In all my years of reading Ian respond to many people in various forums I've never ever witnesses him speak with that sort of derision. Anyway, a direct quote and link would at least be fair to Ian.

Thanks.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
iclockedout4u Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 8:48 PMCopy HTML

 

"I'm certainly very confident in what I believe, and I'm not ashamed to admit as much (and why should I be? I've earned the right). You fellows, let's remember, were taken in by an overweight, biblically ignorant, homosexually-oriented, misogynistic petty tyrant. In fact, many of you were taken in for years."

Hi M&R, go ahead and defend it all you like mate - as long as SOTT reads my response I couldn't care less - he knows exactly what I'm talking about.   SOTT stresses his own superior knowledge in this post (surprise, surprise!), and then goes on to draw a contrast between his high intellect with the likes of 'us fellows' who were thick enough to get taken in by Scott.  

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=443300&startcat=1&start=51&CategoryID=411152&ThreadID=2789055

iclockedout4u

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 9:35 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : iclockedout4u


Hi M&R,go ahead and defend it all you like mate -

Thanks, I think I may if I can, seeing as though he's not actually using the forum for the time being. I"m not being antagonistic with you... I was just curious as to which post you were talking about, and seeing I'm a 'fan' of his and this thread is all about him, I'll defend this fellow with whom I feel a bizarre sort of kinship for.

as long as SOTT reads my response I couldn't care less - he knows exactly what I'm talking about. SOTT stresses his own superior knowledge in this post (surprise, surprise!),

He stresses his superior knowledge and I concede... I certainly haven't been able to fault him... but then I admit to being the type of guy who has been dupped by fringe cults for a greater part of my life. And I must say, I'm impressed with Ian's bible knowledge and I respect it and his opinions, and given that most christian speakers annoy the crap out of me, it surprises me that I actually enjoy his stuff. He actually makes a belief in God sound logical to me. Make no mistake, if he was to take really take to to task on some of my own beliefs I'm sure he'd annoy the crap out of me too... and I'd get annoyed with him and probably get all narky... until I shook it off and approached him maturely in the true spirit of a respectful discussion. That's not entirely in my nature though.

and then goeson to draw a contrast between his high intellectwith the likes of'us fellows' who werethick enough toget taken in by Scott.

And such an attitude might be wrong for Ian to have and communicate... it would warrant some hostility from you and you would have a right to show him up for it. Did he call you thick, or is that what you think was implied?


Well...according to you. To be honest I find the presumption of arrogance on my part, by some CAI correspondents, somewhat curious. I'm certainly very confident in what I believe, and I'm not ashamed to admit as much (and why should I be? I've earned the right).

Ok, I can see he was responding to mailboy who was yet again pointing out SOTT's arrogance. And on that, let me say that when I went through University, most of my lecturers were equally arrogant in manner, but damn, I'm glad I listened to them... it seems to come across that way when they rattle off a million facts and figures off the top of their heads... I thought it funny when some of the new student teachers would try and argue with a professor who had principaled many schools, taught for years and wrote huge doctrates.

You fellows, let's remember, were taken in by an overweight, biblically ignorant, homosexually-oriented, misogynistic petty tyrant. In fact, many of you were taken in for years. And years.

Ok, now Ian's saying that you were conned for years... yep, that's something we all have in common, and it's true, the naive mindset and yes gulliblity, that comes from a history in a cult can realisticly take a while to shake off.  It's a well researched typicality of most people who have been through the brainwashing system of overly controlling churches. It doesn't make you less of a person, and I don't think Ian's saying it does, it's just the manner of the beast of those who need to use this forum to work out how they were manipulated and how to avoid it in the future.

Now I'm sorry if you would like to believe that all opinions on matters biblical are somehow created equal. The fact is, such is not the case, and sorry if my stating as much somehow shatters the illusion that everyone is as capable as everyone else when it comes to rightly dividing--and divining--Holy Scripture.

Ok, yep he is making a contrast, but (eek) as arrogant as it sounds, I don't know for sure if it's incorrect. Ian's saying that all opinions on scripture are not equal... and that's so obvious it shouldn't need to be explained. I have an opinion on the bible which is vastly different from yours and Ian's... and I doubt you would deny that.

That you believe Ian is calling you 'thick' is actually your own words. Think about it.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
bridges burnt Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 10:15 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Well you did a darned good job at defending SOTT, but you lost me with the last two comments. I have been following this thread and didnt feel the need to comment, quite amusing to me actually, being a new borderline-kinda-agnostic/atheist myself. However, from a language point of view I would say that the inference in Sotts comments was derogatory..the one about being taken in..now we were all taken in by Scott and were vulnerable/gullible. I think SOTT was right..but he did use this comment  to try to prove a point. Well  I happen to agree with him but in the end I really dont care what Sott or anyone else says, I'm just nit-picking at the English cos Im sick of studying and need a break.

Likewise, the second comment..nice try to defend but I do believe that Sott was firmly implying that he is above others in his ability to discern scripture..and more power to him, but he wasn't trying to say we all have an equal say to a different opinion.

Anyway..back to study.

bb

"Once you"ve crossed over there"s no turning back, once that burning bridge is gone"
Alison Krauss
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 10:32 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : bridges burnt

Well you did a darned good job at defending SOTT, but you lost me with the last two comments. I have been following this thread and didnt feel the need to comment, quite amusing to me actually, being a new borderline-kinda-agnostic/atheist myself.

Actually it seems I was editing my final comments as you were writing yours.

I've always noticed how Sott's 'arrogancy' really brings something out of people. It's an affront. It's challenging. And yeah, it's bloody annoying.

I watch interviews recently of Dawkins and Hitchens and they are sooo boorishly arrogant that I find them incredibly entertaining. They really rattle their oponents in a debate. Not that they're wrong, but I think if such people start apologising and getting all soft it weakens their message and they don't seem to look like they truly believe what they are saying.

As a teacher, if my students see me umming and erring, they lose respect immediately, and I know there's a fine balance... but when I'm teaching eleven year olds basic maths and they try to tell me that 2+2 = 22, then I really gotta show them my degree and wrinkles and hope that they trust me... or at least listen long enough so that I can convince them that the answer is actually four.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 10:35 PMCopy HTML

"I've always noticed how Sott's 'arrogancy' really brings something out of people. It's an affront. It's challenging. And yeah, it's bloody annoying."

It's called 'tertiary anger'.


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 10:39 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

I think that most ex CAI that come here are looking not only for answers, but reassurance and belonging. We, I believe, have a duty to one another to withstand wolves in sheep's clothing.

Yep, I think you're right, the commonalities of comrades who have felt the same pains and etc is comforting, and the thing is, if you look through the history of posts in the ex-Cai room you'll notice very little talk of doctrines and scripture. There isn't a culture here of questioning the beliefs drilled into you in that church. Maybe Ian has to notice that, but I don't think he can help himself but butt in when he sees people drag threads of the revival doctrine out with them into this forum.

And I think you're looking for enemies that aren't really there - I don't understand that - and I'm curious, what is it about Ian's preaching that really offends you? What on earth is his evil wolven doctrine that really seems to get on your nerves?

I honestly don't get it. Could you make it black and white or are the shades of grey too blurry? I know you're wanting to avoid the terrible likes of my abrupt agnostic self and Ian's broad christianity... why do you label him a wolf. Sure I'll take the label.. what do I care about name calling. heck...

I just don't understand the SOTT hate? Is it really because he showed you up.. is it a pride thing.. will even this question make you insecure in the very possibility that Ian may have some things closer to the bible truth that yourself?

Humour me

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Justien Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:05/06/2007 11:18 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Reply to : mailboyI think that most ex CAI that come here are looking not only for answers, but reassurance and belonging. We, I believe, have a duty to one another to withstand wolves in sheep's clothing.Yep, I think you're right,the commonalities of comrades who have felt the same pains and etc iscomforting,and the thing is, if you look through the history of posts in the ex-Cai room you'll notice very little talk of doctrines and scripture. There isn't a culture here of questioning the beliefs drilled into you in that church. Maybe Ian has to notice that, but I don't think he can help himself but butt in when he sees people drag threads of the revival doctrine out with them into this forum.And I think you're looking for enemies that aren't

"I've no doubt that it was a fat dictator with homosexual tendencies that took you in with some eloquent speech, but I have my reservations that Ian would have said not to give you any 'credit' because of it. In all my years of reading Ian respond to many people in various forums I've never ever witnesses him speak with that sort of derision. Anyway, a direct quote and link would at least be fair to Ian..."

 

Sorry Moth, have to protest here. OK, most find Ian arrogant, which I can understand as he does come across that way in writing. Probably the people on this forum are just a little too alergic to arrogance, having suffered from an overdose of it for 10-20 years. Personally, I don? get the big fuss or the need to hurl insults back and forth. If you don? like it, block his posts, it? no big deal. Unfortunately most people in cults regress to a childlike state, and I guess some here have not taken back their adulthood yet.

However to say that we were taken in by a fat dictator with homosexual tendencies. NO! Most people who got "saved" in the CAI didn? even meet Scott for weeks or months, possibly years afterwards. They weren? taken in by him. Only the people in his direct vicinity would have actually met him before or around the time they got saved.

CAI uses typical cult tactics, love-bombing for example. And most people who ended up in the CAI (and I will not say taken in, as this implies they are stupid or lacking somehow intellectually, which the majority are not) were extremely young or in an extremely vulnerable position at the time of their recruitment, ie. just lost partner, parent died, moved to a new country and don? know anybody, etc. etc. Very few people were saved into the CAI from normal, healthy backgrounds. Speaking from my own experience, after I got saved, (which I regretted immediately because I thought everyone in my "cell group" was boring and old, and hadn? realised I would be expected to spend time with them except for on Sundays), I was subjected to the "scott is the most wonderful man who ever lived" lectures for several months before I actually met him. However, hearing so much good about one person, who always seemed to be right, made me hate him before I? actually ever seen him. Which wasn? helped by the fact that the first thing I heard him say when I did meet him, was as he leaned across me to say to my newly-married friend, "and are you happy to be an obedient and submissive wife?".

So, why did I stay? Mainly, I really truly did believe I had had an experience with a loving God, and I did not know where else to go. Being a 20 year old atheist, who suddenly has an overnight conversion, you can? just get up and walk into any old church. So I stayed, hating every minute, until eventually the people did grow on me, even Scott, and I really truly did believe that it would mean I was no longer saved if I left. Within a few weeks I had lost all contact to my old friends anyway, partly because they thought I? gone mad and partly because the cult activities meant I had no time for anyone but the cult. I think if I had been a couple of years younger I would have told them where to go when they started giving me orders about where to be every night of the week, but due to some personal experiences I had had shortly before I met them I was finished, on the ground and sinking fast. I wasn? in a position to stick up for myself. Otherwise I would most certainly not have been "duped" by anyone. I think you will find that all CAI "victims" have a similar story.

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 12:33 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Justien

I don? get the big fuss or the need to hurl insults back and forth. If you don? like it, block his posts, it? no big deal. Unfortunately most people in cults regress to a childlike state, and I guess some here have not taken back their adulthood yet.

Yep, posts can be blocked and ignored with the Aimoo function to do so. There's a lot of good that can be said for trusting people. Sure you'll get burnt at some point possibly, but that is how we best learn. A childlike state is good for a while.

Most people who got "saved" in the CAI didn? even meet Scott for weeks or months, possibly years afterwards. They weren? taken in by him. Only the people in his direct vicinity would have actually met him before or around the time they got saved.

The same could be said for Lloyd and Khulmans and other unfortunate leadership material too. I sometimes generalise and personalise the whole system by refering to Lloyd but I only ever met the man briefly on one occassion, and you could tell that all the marbles weren't in the bag, but then sometimes genius can seem to make people eccentric, or it can make them senile... whichever comes first.

And I can relate to the rest of your story. It takes guts and strength and a good deal of 'faith' to jump off the edge of a church to discover that you can still fall on your feet. I think we can have a certain amount of pride that we were able to make that leap.

Thanks for your comments.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
anon1 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 12:47 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

....That bond came together when interlopers not only tried to divide but personaly attacked several individuals on this forum. .....The ruse was uncovered....  Even the mildest among us closed ranks. .......  I have several close friends who are Jewish  ?

sorry  mailboy - what's you're point - were  we at this forum under spiritual attack from 'horrible  nasty  SOTT ?'  ..... and what have the Jews got to do with it ?    

- I and  a few others  certainly haven't closed ranks against  SOTT....

Dear brothers and sisters strengthen the weak and the doubting and the backsliders ....

err, okay there, take it easy there matey - this isn't a religous radio broadcast by the Rev. Paisley.   Anyhow I would like  to encourage  doubting CAI members and  ex-members to think about  alternatives to Christianity.  Release  yourselves from the repressive fear of  hell-fire and sin. don't be scared of making  mistakes and  getting things wrong.  Do good and enjoy life- it's too short - it's there to be taken by the reins, to be used and enjoyed.      

 

It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.
iclockedout4u Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 12:58 AMCopy HTML

Hi M&R

Thanks for your further input.   you should get a full time job doing PR for SOTT!  Or teach him some of your people skills...

thanks again - always enjoy your posts.

iclockedout4u.

george-b Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 1:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Reply to : iclockedout4uWhat irony. Here we all are (ex CAI folk) at different levels, different battle scars, scattered and hurt to different degrees, but deep down we still have a bond. This weekend a lot of us are coming together for a housewarming in south east Melbourne, and I'll warrant it will be like that last one, warm, friendly and refreshing for us all.That bond came together when interlopers not only tried to divide but personaly attacked several individuals on this forum. God does indeed work all things together for good. The ruse was uncovered. Even the mildest among us closed ranks. The personal insults and the degrading were the last straw. I have several close friends who are Jewish. There was a very nasty anti semetic attack on aJew going to worship on a Friday night recently in Melbourne.Jews came from everywhere a

 

Hi Mailboy,

Sorry, but I would have to disagree with you here. I think you and LTD took personal umbrage at SOTT's comments and started your own private email war.

I can speak for myself, and I appreciate SOTT's insight and comments on doctrinal issues. I happen to disagree with him on most, but I still find it refreshing to have my beliefs challenged and examined. Afterall, the years in the CAI taught you NOT to examine your beliefs but so simply accept what was being taught. Listening to SOTT I think helps me become more like the Bereans, who eaxmined the things preached to them.

I think we are driving away a man who may well be able to help us all certain aspects. So please don't think your own personal opinion of SOTT means that all ex-CAI think the same. I did not see us "closing ranks". And to be frank, I am fed up with "closed ranks" anyway - I want open ranks! LOL

Now I do find SOTT condescending, and as much as he thinks that it is his message that is being rejected, and actually IS his manner and style that cause most of the offence. Jesus talked TO his audience with care and compassion not DOWN TO them. Most of us have escaped a very controlling church that dictates how things have to be. The last thing we need to be told again that we are all wrong and that someone else has all the answers and we *must* listen to him. We are kinda sick of that to be honest.

So I sit somewhere in the middle on this one mailboy. And I can't include myself in the sweeping generalisations that occur. Please don't take this as a personal offence though, I am not looking for an argument here.

 

God bless - George.

 

 

Light-the-darkness Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 6:47 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : george-b



George,
I do not hate Ian? It is just time to tell him that, what he maybe do not like to hear. The truth about the way he post sometimes (not always!). Did I not say nearly every post that I honour his knowledge (with other wordings?). Yes, I did! BUT, he has to learn to behave according to his knowledge. He should be more humble with his knowledge and don't play the big know-all schoolmaster.
That's the message behind everything from mailboy or myself. Now, you should be able to see clearly that we have not been so wrong in "give out" some warnings with our discussions with him. More voices admitted same. In german I would say "wie es in den Wald hineinruft, schallt es heraus".
My battery is empty regarding SOTT and I have no fun to discuss this matter any further.
We have to concentrate on the topics here and not on persons. So far I am very thankful to Ian that he decided not to visit the CAI forum. Everybody need his advise / knowledge can still consult him as advised by Moddy.

Ltd.
Overcoming the fear of Man.
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 8:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : iclockedout4u

So we'll all just accept that everyone else is paranoid, and in actaul fact SOTT's manner is absolutely fine. 

Point taken ... I think.

Just to be clear though ... I wasn't saying that anyone (let alone everyone) else was paranoid, just that I take his comments in a different way, particularly since I haven't been through any CAI experience and the comments weren't aimed at me. Maybe that just seems like semantics.

... and I don't say that SOTT's manner is absolutely fine (not that it's my place to judge) ... I just made the point that the absolutely dedicated, God-fearing Israelites who were also challenged in blunt terms by the likes of Jesus, Peter, Stephen and Paul would have been thinking in terms of impudence and arrogance, too

Anyway , as a non-CAI person I think I should now butt out

 

george-b Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:06/06/2007 9:32 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian,

Nice reply - it made me laugh a couple of times.

G.

Light-the-darkness Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:07/06/2007 3:22 AMCopy HTML

Let me say the following at the end here, so that we all can have peace with eachother (but there was no real war) and then let's stop this kind of correspondense forever (please):

I respect that Ian is a very dedicated person and he tries to help others with his special knowledge.
I respect that he has made such a good website (even if not developed or maintained anymore) offering help to everybody coming out or are in the cults / "special fellowship" (for me: all cults). There was one sentence one can have another opinion, but at the end it is helpful.
I will try to give you credit back. I will try to overlook the one or another sentence from you in future and take you as you are as long as you do the same with mailboy, me and the others who take offence at your wording and manner you write. Maybe we will never be friends, Ian. God knows! But let's respect the knowledge and dedication bilateral. If one think the other is wrong, let's say it w/o irony, pls. We all can learn from eachother if we have studied something or not.

Let's say: Peace! And Sorry for any inconveniences caused.

OK?

In Jesus, Ltd. (Ralph)
Overcoming the fear of Man.
Carsten R Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:07/06/2007 4:39 AMCopy HTML

this smart ass discussion sucks.

my 2c

C.

 

 

Rescuethem Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:08/06/2007 4:21 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Carsten R



this smart ass discussion sucks. my 2cC.




Carsten, understand that the discussion bugs you. Think you are not alone. However feel that this comment here (in this very moment) was excrescent.
Rescue them.
Carsten R Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:08/06/2007 9:54 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Rescuethem

 However feel that this comment here (in this very moment) was excrescent.

"excrescent" is a matching term in this 'proliferating' conversation. lol.

Varyag Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:09/06/2007 6:20 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Carsten R

Reply to : RescuethemHowever feel that this comment here (in this very moment) was excrescent."excrescent" is a matching term in this 'proliferating' conversation. lol.

Hi Carsty,

agree with you 100 percent. There are people who are trying to get rid of their shocking past experiences, exchange their points of view and visions how to get on with their lifes etc. And there are "smart arses" as you describe them, who are here only to be heard and to "tiggle their ego", to make themselves look important and clever. I like one of their nickmanes - SOTT - sounds very similar to "sod" =)

I would ask them - how much have they (NB!) practically achieved in their christian lifes - have they evangelised in different countries? What have they done? Or were they only sitting at their desks filling their heads with uselesss theoretical and theological knowledge so that they are now ready and willing to philosophise in the virtual world of this forum.... having only warmed chairs in the real life. My 2 cents - - strickly IMHO.

Greetings from Stockholm,

DK

Carsten R Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:10/06/2007 2:15 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Varyag

Reply to : Carsten RReply to : RescuethemHowever feel that this comment here (in this very moment) was excrescent."excrescent" is a matching term in this 'proliferating' conversation. lol.Hi Carsty,agree with you 100 percent. There are people who are trying to get rid of their shocking past experiences, exchange their points of view and visions how to get on with their lifes etc. And there are "smart arses" as you describe them, who are here only to be heard and to "tiggle their ego", to make themselves look important and clever. I like one of their nickmanes - SOTT - sounds very similar to "sod" =)I would ask them - how much have they (NB!) practically achieved in their christian lifes - have they evangelised in different countries? What have they d

Hi mate,

well partly yes to that from me - what actually sucks me more than opinions about certain theological problems is the way, people get bullied here - as if only ex CAI-ers have a say in this forum. 

Actually that shows a lot about the mindset we have adapted in that sick cult - judging evereything and everyone who does not agree to our crap. I just can't stand it anymore.

We are free people in a free world (some seemingly still don't get it) and I would find it sad, if people would let push themselves out here because of the intolerant rant of others.

That way we only serve satan and his CAI spawn.

imho.

greets, carsten

 

anon1 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #31
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:10/06/2007 5:06 PMCopy HTML

Hi Varvag

you commented ..... "I would ask them - how much have they (NB!) practically achieved in their christian lifes - have they evangelised in different countries? What have they done? ...."

I would have to say this isn;t  what I would have thought of as  great Christian attitude....     not everyone is destined to be a  evangelist or missionary,  possibly that is/was your calling; but that should not be the yard stick  to measure others with.  

SOTT -  can be annoying sometimes; and  he doesn't  always get the CAI spin things always correct -BUT   he does provide a  valuable service - I would  encourage you to enter into debate with him regarding  bible-based  discussions.....  

"Or were they only sitting at their desks filling their heads with uselesss theoretical and theological knowledge so that they are now ready and willing to philosophise in the virtual world of this forum.... having only warmed chairs in the real life. My 2 cents - - strickly IMHO."

hey - listen mate - if  we had read enough ourselves then the  "useless theological knowledge"   we would have  picked up,  may have aided us at the time  to avoid the CAI and realised for example  BI, tongues=salvation etc  were dodgy doctrine and  taken heed and kept clear of the  whole outfit !!!   

Theology  - MUST  be used to ground  your beliefs -especially if you're a missionary !!    Theology defines and  puts the context to your doctrines....     surely a clever bod  like  you should  know that.

Before attacking SOTT   ( what's that crap about Sod... ?)   why not  examine  your  own  heart, doctrine and beliefs !   A beam in one's an eye come into mind...

An (exCAI)  non- believer

   Anon1

 

 

 

 

It"s never too late to leave. Even if yon"ve been in the Assembly a long time.
Varyag Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #32
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:10/06/2007 8:55 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : anon1

Hi Varvagyou commented ....."I would ask them - how much have they (NB!) practically achieved in their christian lifes - have they evangelised in different countries? What have they done? ...."I would have to say this isn;t what I would have thought of as great Christian attitude.... not everyone is destined to be a evangelist or missionary, possibly that is/was your calling; but that should not be the yard stick to measure others with.SOTT - can be annoying sometimes; and he doesn't always get the CAI spin things always correct -BUT he does provide a valuable service - I would encourage you to enter into debate with him regarding bible-based discussions....."Or were they only

Hi ya!

Nice message - thanks. I just found the SOTT / sod thing quite funny sounding, thats all =)))

Teology is a good thing as long as it is not puffed up and is "reasonable". What is reasonale? An interesting measure for it is "what would a man from the Clapham omnibus think". This measurement is applied in common law.

As said, I thought this was a forum devoted rather to CAI survivors, who can exchange their experiences, views, thoughts etc, not for some smart backsides coming along showing what a bunch of nutcases we all were (as if we dont know it without them) and superioir their theological knowledge is. As for discussions about substantiation / transformation / elevation and other lovely theoretical things - there surely are other places to discuss these issues. Not that I am saying some should "get lost", dont get me wrong.

That's only IMHO. As for me, I am indeed investigating a lot of cai beliefs - there is plenty of material out there.

DK

 

Varyag Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #33
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:10/06/2007 9:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Varyag

Reply to : anon1Hi Varvagyou commented ....."I would ask them - how much have they (NB!) practically achieved in their christian lifes - have they evangelised in different countries? What have they done? ...."I would have to say this isn;t what I would have thought of as great Christian attitude.... not everyone is destined to be a evangelist or missionary, possibly that is/was your calling; but that should not be the yard stick to measure others with.SOTT - can be annoying sometimes; and he doesn't always get the CAI spin things always correct -BUT he does provide a valuable service - I would encourage you to enter into debate with him regarding bible-based discussions....."Or were they onlyHi ya!Nice message - thanks. I just found the SOTT / sod thing quite

as a little addition - the issue was sorted out with Ian, and I am very glad to hear that my judgements of him were wrong.

Thanks for clarification, Ian.

anon1 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #34
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Re:To SOTT - hi

Date Posted:11/06/2007 12:06 AMCopy HTML

hi  Varvag

- I guess the log has been removed  :-)

all the best !

  anon1

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