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Merry Menagerie
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Date Posted:19/10/2004 8:46 PMCopy HTML

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.htmlYou are not allowed to buy girl scout cookies - are they hash cookies?You are not allowed to be a cheer leader - well there goes my career then doh!!! LOLJesus did not die on a cross he died on an upright pole...don't you know LOLYou cannot play chess - but I'm really good at chessOnly officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage - What the???? Ummmmmmmm say no moreYou cannot feed you dog dogfood with blood products in it - huh?And we thought the Revs were bad!! ROFL!!!!!!
Jojo the Lion Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:20/10/2004 3:05 AMCopy HTML

8. There is no hell (there is only there is only the grave)

-This one does not seem so bad to me. There are some revs who agree on this too.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price / I have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:24/10/2004 8:28 PMCopy HTML

Hey thanks for the new look room and features... LUV the use of the good ol' Rev icons; it gives it some flavour. They think they're so different, the RCI and RF but it's all brushed with the same tar. The RF logo is blowing even more of it's own trumpets... out of its $%&!**. I have not come across another church that seems to be so in love with it's logos. They would jump on anyone that dared to wear a cross or a dove or put a fish on their car... or use the fish symbol in anyway... God forbid looking like a pentecostal or a catholic. I remember buying every new Revival shirt or Revival bumper sticker with so much excitement at xmas camps and rallys.. that's so sad.

and no... you'll probably not get any money from me. I'm a stinge. I remember in my last days at the Rev I used to enjoy not titthing anymore... they owe me dammit. I should go back and take a large amout of bricks from the walls for all the building fund money i've given. You're right Merry, so many people expect a free ride from their church as if it's government funded or something. There really has to be some sort of contribution from members to keep things running.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:25/10/2004 10:52 AMCopy HTML

I agree with H&S that people can contribute to their church if they want to.  But ti demand 10% of their wage (they usually demand 10% of the gross wage before tax too) is just ridiculous.  Especially if you're poor.  I remember when I was on the dole I used to feel obliged to give 10%.  Here I was trying to pay my rent and eat while giving 10% of my dole money to the church.  Jeesh!!!  Talk about sucked in.

The tithe to Israel was a type of tax anyway.  Israel was a nation not a small organisation within a nation.  So the Old Testament precedent of a tithe doesn't apply to a church situation anyway.  It's funny how churches like the RCI/RF and AOG, etc all take the Old Testament laws that suit them and ignore the ones that don't.  "God demands you pay 10% of your money to us, no tattoos, etc...would you like a ham sandwich or buy a shirt made of a weave of two different types of cloth?" 

Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:26/10/2004 9:04 AMCopy HTML

Well back when I was broke I gave 10% of my time instead and no one said anything.  In fact I don't ever remember anyone sitting there and counting what I put in the bag to be quite honest nor do I remember anyone taking any notice if I tithed or not....so TBH I have no idea what you are talking about Hoj.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:26/10/2004 11:30 AMCopy HTML

What I am talking about was when I was in the AOG, not the RCs.  Sorry, I should have made that clear.

And it wasn't that anyone was looking over my shoulder watching what I put in the bag.  It was that they told me that God wanted my 10% no matter how much I earned.  In fact, there was even an element within the church that said that I should tithe with greater vigour when poor so that God would bring me out of my financial hardship.  I am talking about the pressure of the teaching not individual leaders or people.  They taught us what God 'wanted' and then it was up to us to apply it.  I was trying to be a good Christian as defined by the teachings in my AOG church.  What I am tryning to say is that the teaching was flawed, not that someone stood over me.  But the the teaching was pushed within my AOG church.  We were even told to give to missions OVER AND ABOVE our regular tithe and not instead of it. 

Tithing was something that was not enforced on an individual level, but we were certainly made to feel guilty for not doing it.  And I promise you, I didn't want to let God down.  I have since realised that God doesn't need my money.  And when I was really poor (relative to Australia anyway) then it was then that the church should have been giving money to me, not the other way around.

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:26/10/2004 11:41 AMCopy HTML

I remember being 'told off' from the platform during one of those 'make you feel guilty tithing talks' that we were a bit slack because we didn't even tithe 10% of our time. I added up the average time most of us sat through hot sunday afternoon etc. and found that we were actually... Can ya feel that legalistic vibe. Some of those gung ho house-leaders (myself included) gave such shoddy and unsubltle unproffesional talks that Im amazed the assemblies put up with us. Listening to a leader prattle on for 45 minutes stringing together about 60 scriptures to back up between the two different types of love has stunted me forever.

They get so desparate to find content for a talk that it usually has to be filled with hundreds of analogies... if I hear the analogy of the Hot boiled froggy or army analogies once more in my life I will fill my ears with silicon.... sorry about the rant.

I remember the 'look' i got from various people handing the bag around when I, again, did not put money into it. Once I put a $2 scratchy into it... because it amused me to do stuff like that. It became forever one of those dumb pastor jokes that got menioned every second week... and I was sorry I did it because of the cheesy jokes it inspired... the things ya gotta do to entertain yourself at Revival meetings.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:26/10/2004 12:15 PMCopy HTML

ROFL!!! about the $2 scratchie LOL  What a laugh!  Can't believe you did that...you had guts.

Oh well, I guess I must live under a rock because I don't ever remember feeling any pressure to tithe at either the RC's,  RF's, AOG or the COC...*shrugs*

Oh H&S you should have heard the pearler of a talk one of the leaders gave in ****** explaining how the people on the day of pentecost heard them speak the language they were born...ROFL!!!  He reckoned that when you hear someone pray in tongues you can sometimes hear a word here or there that is a word in English and that was what it meant in the bible.  That was one of the first times I ever started questioning...then promptly felt guilty afterwards of course

exReadBiblist Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:06/12/2004 3:25 PMCopy HTML

I know this is coming a bit late but after reading the last response about tithing, but I just remembered an interesting situation arose that I would like to share which I thought quite funny at the time.

A lady in our assembly actually won a brand new BMW in some sort of raffle. I asked her how the hell was she going to put the bumperbar and the wheels (worth about 10% of the car) in the bag as it came around. She replied she probably wouldn't as it would bring undue attention to herself and besides, she might start a trend. Imagine placing 10% of anything you obtained through the Grace of God in the bag! Still, a good point I thought. Money or wages are not the only form of wealth one may acquire.

It was also very interesting to see how certain loving bretheren and oversight became quite polarised over the whole affair. (Was it the ill gotten gains of gambling or what?) (AND we don't expect everyday plebs in the assembly to be given a new car. What's wrong with an old Magna dear Lord?)

Incidently, speaking of which, at one time I bought a rather fashy new up market car (for my job). A week later, a whole talk was dedicated to warning folk of the dangers of greed and to be wary of certain folk who love causing dissent among the bretheren. (Who was causing the dissent I wonder?)

PS Got to chauffer lots of assembly weddings though, even if I didn't get invited to the reception.

 

 

 

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rebelsister Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:07/12/2004 5:47 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : BraveBear

Hey Brave Bear,

Reminds me of the time we bought a nice shiny red Porche complete with whale tail. Of course, we'd worked damn hard for the money, but thats irrelevant. Shortly after we bought a huge house on acreage as well. Always thinking of the brethren, we made sure it had plenty of room for house meetings and entertaining the saints. The senior pastor was one of our first house guests to play on our tennis court, swim in our pool and spa, and break in the billiards table. During rally, we catered for a BUS load from another assembly.

It never ceased to amaze me how, every so often, we would get a talk on people who put their faith in fancy cars like Porches and who bought mansions with their filthy lucre. Yet the same red Porche was often called upon for assembly weddings, chauffered by us, even though we were seldom invited to the reception and certainly never offered recompense for our petrol or time. And of course, when half the assembly would turn up at our place for 'fellowship' events, I spent most of the time running around meeting the needs of visitors and then cleaning up the mammoth mess the next day. True to form, very few said 'thanks' but a lot gossiped about our material goods for weeks afterwards.

I just put it down to jealousy at the time, bewildered that my brothers and sisters would make such a big deal about us being 'rich'. In the eyes of the Lord we are all equal, but not in the eyes of our fellow revivalists. I know we were invited into the 'inner circle' because of what we had and yet, when we struck financial difficulty some years later because of bad business decisions, it was blamed on us 'taking our eyes off the Lord'. At least there were plenty of other tall poppies to chop off, including yourself.

And incidently, if you hadnt parked your shiny new Jag in the pastor's exclusive parking spot, he probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:10/01/2008 2:26 AMCopy HTML

Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant

[A Scriptural Exposition on the Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock]

Since first posting this tithing paper on bible-truths.com, we have had hundreds of thousands of visitors seeking information on this topic. Many have written me personally thanking me for freeing them from this illegal and abusive practice of the Church. I have also received emails from some who are sure that tithing is a bonafide legal obligation for members of the New Testament Christian Church.

Objections to my paper range from simply quoting the prophet Malachi sent to the priests and nation of Israel: "Wherein have we robbed Thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse...." While others who can find absolutely no Scriptural authority for Christians to tithe, invent clever little doctrines like this:

"Tithing was a form of worship to God, and since we still worship God, we must still tithe."

I will answer this one in one sentence: Since burnt offerings were a form of worshiping God, and since we still worship God, must we still offer burnt offerings to God? ... Ridiculous.

Part II of this paper covers the Malachi prophecy more thoroughly as it concerns the subject of tithing.

Read more..

http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html

littlewhitemouse Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:11/10/2010 10:37 PMCopy HTML

The quiver of arrows and the shields needed to fight the powers that be

 http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ATHEISM/inquisition.php#columbus


welcome not preachy preachy please I love cats
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:12/10/2010 12:06 AMCopy HTML

Mousie,

The quiver of arrows and the shields needed to fight the powers that be

You must be kidding?! Surely ...

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:12/10/2010 12:37 AMCopy HTML

I would hate to think anyone would risk their eternal life by believing too much of this rubbish.
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #14
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:12/10/2010 4:07 AMCopy HTML

And and if we don't all ride bikes and give over more money to the governments and Al Gore for his Indulgences to use anything and everything that emits CO2 the world will burn up.

But with out proof that there is a god and global warming I'm not worried.

And if there is a god I don't like him but sure he still loves me.
blah blah blah

Still waiting to find out how the stories of the uppity slave turns out

Fight the powers that be.
gesundheit

Je veux vous




cfcmi_survivor Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #15
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:27/06/2011 4:53 AMCopy HTML

During my years as a licenesed minister in CFCMI, I was indoctrinated heavily on the subject on tithing.  CFCMI, like the Revival Centres, believes in tithing 10% from the gross before taxes.  In fact, there are many churches that teach this.  Surprisingly, I held on to that teaching for several years after I left CFCMI.

In 2008, that began to change.  I found myself in dire financial straits due to marital problems; I could hardly even pay rent, much less tithe.  The pastor of a church I attended after leaving CFCMI was old school on this subject, and did not think my financial issues were an excuse.  Nonetheless, God blessed me through the kindness of family and friends, plus an attorney who skillfully navigated the treacherous waters of financial distress.  I was not cursed, but blessed since the crisis was not of my doing.

In the course of this crisis, coupled with a discussion with a coworker, I began to seriously question how we teach the subject.  The coworker had health problems and was paying through the nose on child support; if he did 10% of the gross, or even the net, he would be on the street homeless.  I read different studies on tithing, and afterwards I backed off, realizing I had far more questions than answers.

My biggest question is this: while I understand and have no desire to rob God, why do churches command tithing when it was not commanded on the New Testament church?  Nowehere in Acts or in the letters was it commanded at all.  I do not believe the Bible contradicts itself, but I do believe we have erred somewhere in this teaching and are now forcing something on the congregation the Apostles themselves did not teach.

Was the practice of tithing eliminated? No.  Christ never condemned the Pharisees for doing so.  It is still right to tithe if one chooses to and can afford it.

I will share one aspect of how CFCMI enforced tithing that I don't know was ever tried in the Revival Centres.  When CFCMI had a branch in San Diego, California, that church had an ATM in front of the building.  The pastor demanded that everyone turn in their pay stubs so he can see exactly how much people were supposed to put in the plate.  He also required the members to have their taxes prepared by the church treasurer so he would know how much was coming back in tax refunds, and force people to tithe from them too.  The pastor in question is longer in charge, and was questioned at length not just about his practices but his very sanity as well.  It turned he had serious psychiatric problems that included violent behaviour.

Until I read more and draw more understanding on the subject, I will refrain from teaching on tithing.

John Cady
USA
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:12/07/2011 11:24 PMCopy HTML

WOW. Can't believe there is an entire website devoted to people who have left "The Fold". Brilliant! Wish i had found something like this 11 years ago when i left the church at 14 (after 9 long torturous years).
I really wish people would use their real names on here. I probably know half of you.
If anyone remembers the Robins, i was one of their..... tribe.
Now, on tithing, i remember hearing many hundreds of talks about tything. I remember being talked AT by members of the church telling me that even though i was 10, i needed to give the church 10% of my pocket money or i was going to hell. And i still remember the flogging i got for refusing in front of the pastor.
Good times.
Epios Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:17/07/2011 3:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Leigh_Farrell

WOW. Can't believe there is an entire website devoted to people who have left "The Fold". Brilliant! Wish i had found something like this 11 years ago when i left the church at 14 (after 9 long torturous years).
I really wish people would use their real names on here. I probably know half of you.
If anyone remembers the Robins, i was one of their..... tribe.
Now, on tithing, i remember hearing many hundreds of talks about tything. I remember being talked AT by members of the church telling me that even though i was 10, i needed to give the church 10% of my pocket money or i was going to hell. And i still remember the flogging i got for refusing in front of the pastor.
Good times.


Hi Leigh,

Harsh pastor hey, trying to extract a tithe from a 10 year old's pocket money and looking on while the kid was flogged for not wanting to oblige.  Sounds like something out of a Charles Dickens novel.  A lot of parents have fallen under the influence of doing what they think the pastors would want them to do and dished out some pretty harsh treatment on their kids.  There's only one pastor I know of who I think would go to those lengths but from all accounts he's more interested in extracting details of fornications from an older age group.

Whatever "fold" you were in and whosever rule you were under you were indeed fortunate to have escaped from there when you did, just before more torturous years as a young person in Young Peoples.

Tithing talks are a superficial outward show to make Revival Churches look good (we just love cheerful givers) compared with Pentecostal's forceful demands and mainliner's funding programmes.  Emphasis is always on the use of scripture, cheerful givers, bountiful sowers bountiful reapers, often a reference from Malachi 3 on robbing God is used for effect.  Luke 6 is always a good one "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, shaken together. running over shall men give unto your bosom.  For with the same measure you mete withall it shall be measured to you again."

Although most pastors used the indirect cheerful approach to tithing talks one old chap used to randomly quote scripture as saying "give until it hurts" which is one I was never able to find in scripture.

According to one old ex RCIer the real business begins, not with tithing talks or collection bag, but with the private man to man talks between pastor and suitably established male Revivalists.  Regular deposits bank a/c to bank a/c according to income/double income begin at this point.  And a code of silence exists.  Some wives are unaware of how much their husbands give or even if they do give.  Many uninformed wives marvel that despite the near empty collection bags the Lord himself miraculously provides for his chosen church (Revival) and will continue to do so until the last saint is sealed.

It's good I think to contribute to church funds and ministry.  I prefer though the good old up front Anglican, Catholic etc approach of annual reminders for members to collect their gifting envelopes from the back of the church on their way out. 

Epi
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Re:Tithing - Do churches need your money?

Date Posted:17/07/2011 3:35 AMCopy HTML


On the subject of Charles Dickins, a few of those pastors giving tithing talks (and I've sat through many) would often remind me of Uriah Heep in Dickins' David Copperfield.  Although not "umble" as Uriah just as wily.

RCI prophesies
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