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Date Posted:07/06/2007 7:43 AMCopy HTML

Hi, all.In all the years that I've known of/read/been involved with various Revivalist forae, I don't believe I'veeverseen a thread that's directly addressed the subject oftheological reflection. By this I mean,"the conscious and sustained consideration of the effects of Christian teaching and belief upon one's life, convictions and view of reality and the world."I offer that Revivalists (and former Revivalists) generally understand the concept of 'doctrine', which is simply another way of saying 'theology'. 'Doctrine', of course, relates to thecontentof what we believe. But what role do the 'facts and figures'reallyplay in shaping our understanding of self, life and reality (i.e. thecontexts)? Do we simply go through the accepted motions? Or have we reflected sufficiently, so that we have a personal theology of prayer? Of life? Of marriage? Of justice? Of war? Of the ecology? Of nuclear proliferation? Of...Any thoughts?Blessings,Ian
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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:07/06/2007 12:14 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Hi, all.In all the years that I've known of/read/been involved with various Revivalist forae, I don't believe I'veeverseen a thread that's directly addressed the subject oftheological reflection. By this I mean,"the conscious and sustained consideration of the effects of Christian teaching and belief upon one's life, convictions and view of reality and the world."I offer that Revivalists (and former Revivalists) generally understand the concept of 'doctrine', which is simply another way of saying 'theology'. 'Doctrine', of course, relates to thecontentof what we believe. But what role do the 'facts and figures'reallyplay in shaping our understanding of self, life and reality? Do we simply go through the accepted motions? Or have we reflected sufficiently, so that we have a personal theology of prayer? Of life? Of marriage? Of

Given that the 'only' Doctrine to be accepted was that of the uneducated or should I say misinformed instruction from the revivalist platform and pulpit the role was very minimal. Considering among many theological issues whilst I remained within the revivalist paradigm, I didn't know the reality of the Person of the Holy Spirit. But now with theological training building all the time in my life, I have put the revivalist paradigm out of my life and gone from the reflective to the contemplative thought....

lahad

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:09/06/2007 7:22 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Hi, all.In all the years that I've known of/read/been involved with various Revivalist forae, I don't believe I'veeverseen a thread that's directly addressed the subject oftheological reflection. By this I mean,"the conscious and sustained consideration of the effects of Christian teaching and belief upon one's life, convictions and view of reality and the world."I offer that Revivalists (and former Revivalists) generally understand the concept of 'doctrine', which is simply another way of saying 'theology'. 'Doctrine', of course, relates to thecontentof what we believe. But what role do the 'facts and figures'reallyplay in shaping our understanding of self, life and reality (i.e. thecontexts)? Do we simply go through the accepted motions? Or have we reflected sufficiently, so that we have a personal theology of praye

 

Ian,

I have pondered on above for several days now and still find it difficult to respond to what you might be expecting to hear. As Lahad has already mentioned, that most have been subjected to the one form of doctrine dished out by misinformed ministers,  one can only reflect on the things as to how it has effected one from that false teaching. With the knowledge gained so far from your essays, I realize how it has changed the way of my thinking and the effect it has had on my life.

Even if you could get a "Revivalist" to sit down and take notice, no matter how convincing you might be, they still wouldn't accept it and simply continue to go through "the accepted motions", because they haven't got that education and understanding in the Greek and theology.

Prior to not attending the fellowship anymore, I did have a lengthy talk with the Pastor, about the things I had learnt and showed him from the scriptures with Greek grammitical, etc., His response was that I had been raving on for over an hour and have really told him nothing. It's amazing; this same person uses Greek meanings in his talks all the time but still doesn't want to know anything other than what he has been told for years.

I can only say, it is those who are fully conversant in the Greek and understanding, that you would get a great response to this topic.

 

Ralph          

 

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:09/06/2007 9:43 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Brolga

Reply to : SOTT1Hi, all.In all the years that I've known of/read/been involved with various Revivalist forae, I don't believe I'veeverseen a thread that's directly addressed the subject oftheological reflection. By this I mean,"the conscious and sustained consideration of the effects of Christian teaching and belief upon one's life, convictions and view of reality and the world."I offer that Revivalists (and former Revivalists) generally understand the concept of 'doctrine', which is simply another way of saying 'theology'. 'Doctrine', of course, relates to thecontentof what we believe. But what role do the 'facts and figures'reallyplay in shaping our understanding of self, life and reality (i.e. thecontexts)? Do we simply go through the accepted motions? Or have we reflected sufficiently, so that we have a personal theolo

Agree there brother Brolga....... for a long time whilst I remained a member, I experienced no peace of spirit in my heart at all and now in hindsight I realize that was God prompting me to leave and sooner or later an innocent event suddenly crops up in your life over which you have absolutely no control of, an event which at the time appears totally preposterous and unfathomably stupid and so out that door you walk never to see that "pastor" or talk to him again and still there has never been any regret 15 years since - no not once. But think about it Brother Brolga of what we would have robbed ourselves of and missed in our walks with God, had we chosen to remain in the revivalist boat and not got out and walked to the Saviour when we saw Him walking on the water towards us.   

Lahad

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:10/06/2007 6:41 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Hi, all.In all the years that I've known of/read/been involved with various Revivalist forae, I don't believe I'veeverseen a thread that's directly addressed the subject oftheological reflection. By this I mean,"the conscious and sustained consideration of the effects of Christian teaching and belief upon one's life, convictions and view of reality and the world."I offer that Revivalists (and former Revivalists) generally understand the concept of 'doctrine', which is simply another way of saying 'theology'. 'Doctrine', of course, relates to thecontentof what we believe. But what role do the 'facts and figures'reallyplay in shaping our understanding of self, life and reality (i.e. thecontexts)? Do we simply go through the accepted motions? Or have we reflected sufficiently, so that we have a personal theology of praye

hi sott, i had been planing on replying earlier, but an unfortunate incident involving a gatepost prevented me doing anything that invlved thought lol.

this subject i think is very important, i have chosen to stop going to church for a while for several reasons, initialy it was the realization i was unable to decern what was a healthy church, and the decision to deal with my life growing up in a revival cult and how that has impacted my life (instead of just ignoring it). it was at this time i discovered this forum, the cultweb website, and your please concider website.

the cultweb website helped me solidify my growing belife that the revival churches were more than a good church gone bad and were instead a cult (something i had suspected for awhile but hadnt truly accepted)

this forum has given me a place to speak alowing me to name and deal with things from my past, something i hadnt done, i was unsure at first if being on the forum would be healthy for me, but it has been and i am thankful to have found my way here

and then there was the please concider website, i had already diascarded some of the revival teachings, but it wasnt untill i came across this website that i realized the extent of corupted scripture the revivals taught- and i still belived,

this gave me my final reason for not going to a church, right now i am trying to rid myself from the revivals warped version of scripture, find what the bible acctualy says and what it is i belive, i dont want to rid myself of the revival version of the truth only to replace it with annother churches, i want to have my own belifes.

i grew up in the revival centers/fellowship an i was never incoraged to personaly reflect on anything, just to do as i was told, belive what i was told- and we all knew what happend if you asked questions, you were belittled, and marked as a rebel and thos who kept asking were persectued till they shut up, left or were kicked out.

i think we all should be taking time to realy work out what it is we personaly belive, and how that affects every facet of our lives.

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:11/06/2007 4:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : break freeHi, BF.hi sott, i had been planing on replying earlier, but an unfortunate incident involving a gatepost prevented me doing anything that invlved thought lol.Ouch! Hoping you're okay nowthis subject i think is very important, i have chosen to stop going to church for a while for several reasons, initialy it was the realization i was unable to decern what was a healthy church, and the decision to deal with my life growing up in a revival cult and how that has impacted my life (instead of just ignoring it). it was at this time i discovered this forum, the cultweb website, and your please concider website.Okay.the cultweb website helped me solidify my growing belife that the revival churches were more than a

i am much better thanks, i had a mild concussion and was totaly out of it for around 4 days but i recovered lol  thanks for your concern

 

this gave me my final reason for not going to a church, right now i am trying to rid myself from the revivals warped version of scripture, find what the bible acctualy says and what it is i belive, i dont want to rid myself of the revival version of the truth only to replace it with annother churches, i want to have my own belifes.

Well, I can't agree with your reasoning on the above. For starters, Scripture itself clearly demonstrates that there's no such thing as the 'lone' Christian. Christianity is corporate, not individual, it involves community and not isolation. And, of course, the very term 'fellowship' in Greek properly means 'participation' (with all that implies). Second, it might prove very difficulty for you to reconcile what Scripture really teaches by yourself, without the benefit of the "...pastors and teachers...", and then from within the context of a community of believers. You might end up successfully ridding yourself of Revivalist heresy, only to embrace heresy in another form. Are you confident that you'd be able to correctly discern one error from another? Or truth from error?

i understand why you dont agree with me and in some ways i agree with you too, but try to keep in mind, my original reasons for not going to church havent changed. while i agree there is a danger that i will missinterperate scripture if left on my own (actualy im pretty sure i will get some of it wrong), i have no faith in my own ability to pick a heathy church, therefor i have no faith in their ability to teach the truth. it has always been both my strength and failing that i rely on myself so much but i would have more faith in my honest and ernest attempt to work out what the bible says, than a churches teaching on what the bible says- mostly because im not trying to decive myself

my hope is that i will eventualy be ready to go to annother church, that i will be able to choose a heathy church with a good grounding in scripture, with out the leagalisum and herasy of the rci/f. untill then i am trying to get a better understanding of the bible and christianity without the taint of the rci/f

 

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:12/06/2007 12:05 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free

Reply to : SOTT1Reply to : break freeHi, BF.hi sott, i had been planing on replying earlier, but an unfortunate incident involving a gatepost prevented me doing anything that invlved thought lol.Ouch! Hoping you're okay nowthis subject i think is very important, i have chosen to stop going to church for a while for several reasons, initialy it was the realization i was unable to decern what was a healthy church, and the decision to deal with my life growing up in a revival cult and how that has impacted my life (instead of just ignoring it). it was at this time i discovered this forum, the cultweb website, and your please concider website.Okay.the cultweb website helped me solidify my growing belife that the revival churches were more than ai am much better thanks, i h

..... To quote Billy Graham:   "There is no such thing as the perfect church" and to quote Ian Thomason: " There is no such thing as the perfect teaching..."

people will always be people wherever they meet and fellowship with the same human expression but you cannot survive without community at all

Ladad

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:14/06/2007 3:24 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Theological reflection isn't limited to just those who know Hebrew and Greek. In fact, knowledge of the biblical languages has very little to do with it. Theological reflection, thinking deeply about the effects and results of one's beliefs in every area of life, is something that should be undertaken by every single Christian, irrespective of their education or learning

Hi Ian

Yes, thank goodness that theological reflection is not limited to those who understand Hebrew and Greek - although it obviously helps to 'understand' the meaning of certain words in the scriptures at times. 

I spent many years not even questioning too deeply what I was being 'taught' at RF/RC, just naively accepted what came from the platform because I trusted the oversight.  This trust was in question a few years back (not over a doctinal issue) but I started to think that if a pastor cannot be trusted in small things I should be examining  everything they say.  And so began my journey.. 

I totally agree Ian, we should all take the time to reflect deeply on what it is to be a Christian and how it impacts all areas of our lives - because being a Christian is (or should) be a reflection of Christ living in us.  It is something I now do each day, pause and reflect on my actions and pray that I can show others how Jesus works in and through me.  An example of this is;  I have had comments from work colleagues that in the last 5 months (since leaving RF) I am a more relaxed and considerate person compared to before (still in RF)  (just hope I wasn't too obnoxious in the past!) This is from people who do not know a lot about RF or even Christianity but have known me personally for the 12 years that we have worked closely together.  The senior pastor at church uses an expression  "to know God is to show God" - I hope that now that I am coming to (seeking) a more intimate knowledge of God, He will be able to work through me to show others how He can also work in their lives.  I look forward to drawing even closer to God as my journey continues and as I reflect and pray each day I know that He will continue blessing my life and those with whom I have contact.  I will be eternally grateful that my eyes have been opened and I have 'stepped out' of a place that did not encourage one's spiritual growth.

If how we know God is how we show God - the poor old RF can only show what they know!  A God of judgement, fear and condemnation - not a God of tolerance, compassion and unlimited love for His children.

Urchin

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:18/06/2007 4:55 PMCopy HTML

 

Tertiary Study

I was in the middle of doing an exegesis on selected passages from the Book of Job for the Sydney College of Divinity and I had the terrible thought that the door to scholarly study into the Scriptures and including important skills such as hermenuetics ( ie Biblical Interpretation and associated methodologies etc ), important pre and post graduate study in Biblical Languages of Greek and Hebrew and I suppose other helpful areas such as "Crisis Pastoral Care" and also another area is Textual Criticism, just would not be permissable entry for any person who as a member of the Revival Fellowship(s) to venture into and undertake at all... I place this charge against the Revival Fellowships as an indictment of gross Biblical misconduct and abuse of the Spiritual and Personal well-being and growth of its members:- " No current member of the Revival Fellowships would ever be allowed to pursue a worthwhile career of study to obtain their Batchelors, Masters and Ultimately PHD  in any of the theological disciplines ie Theology, Ministry, Christian Studies and Divinity and develop within themselves to become as valued servant members of the WHOLE Christian community . "

Lahad

ps should I post this as a question on the BRF Forum using my real name ????

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:19/06/2007 8:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Lahad

No current member of the Revival Fellowships would ever be allowed to pursue a worthwhile career of study to obtain their Batchelors, Masters and Ultimately PHD  in any of the theological disciplines ie Theology, Ministry, Christian Studies and Divinity  ... 

Yo Lahad

While this may be true in some (many?) RF's, it would not be so clear-cut in the "less socially dysfunctional" ones. In the latter, at least from the "platform", there might be suggestions of wasting one's time and poo-pooing of the knowledge and wisdom of the lecturers, but not an outright ban. If participating in the course required acknowledging a particular creed, it would again be left to the individual. If participating in the course required a recommendation from a pastor, and a creed had to be accepted that the pastor did not agree with, he may well refuse. Anyway ... you get my drift.

Of course, if such studies led one to a view of the evangel which differs from RF's ... the individual would then have to decide whether or not to stay within the RF!

PS I'd be surprised if the BRF forum provided a response materially different from the one I've just given.

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:01/07/2007 9:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : allIt's been interesting engaging with various people here, and in the 'shout-box' below. Doing so has led me back to this thread, and the subject of 'reflection'. Revivalists, as a rule, were never encouraged to think--either deeply or broadly. This is a conditioned failure, which remains a systemic failure, and so it continues to hamper the ability of people to 'reflect' adequately thereby further hampering spiritual growth.Sad, reallyBlessings,Ian

Good morning Ian,

What, may I ask, do you get out of being part of this forum and "theological relections" and how does it reflect adequately in your life?

Thankyou, Ralph.

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:01/07/2007 1:44 PMCopy HTML

Orrr c'mon Ian, doesn't it stroke your ego even a little bit being able to display your theological prowess? Make you feel a bit warm & fuzzy engaging with your fellows? You are human after all!

We all are learning (no matter how much we have learned or may teach). Surely, you take as well as give to this forum.

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:03/07/2007 11:56 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : dogmafreeHi, Dog.Orrr c'mon Ian, doesn't it stroke your ego even a little bit being able to display your theological prowess? Make you feel a bit warm & fuzzy engaging with your fellows? You are human after all!'Yep', I'm human, but 'nope', nothing I do here comes remotely close to stroking my ego; further there'svery littleopportunity for me to display my supposed 'theological prowess'. If I was to use the analogy of a car, I'd suggest that I've not even begun to 'rev' my engine at this place, never mind putting the thing into 1st gear and burning down the road!We all are learning (no matter how much we have learned or may teach). Surely, you take as well as give to this forum.Yep. I take a fair bit of 'heat' from t

 

Bauer's (third edition) has finally arrived......

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:05/07/2007 3:28 PMCopy HTML

In the light of the shout box, (I'm not going to stick my mouth in there)

"LET MY PEOPLE GO"

Firstly God raised up Moses, then Jesus and now Sott1?  All showing us the way out of bondage. 

God bless you Ian, and us.

Brolga.

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:05/07/2007 5:53 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : BrolgaHi, Ralph.Firstly God raised up Moses, then Jesus and now Sott1. All showing us the way out of bondage.Whoa there, bro'! I'm notanyone'sdeliverer, and certainlynotafter the fashion of Jesus or Moses! To be honest, things are starting to get a littleweirdaround here, at the moment, and I certainly don't want to be adding to the nonsense (in either name or deed)As for the 'shout box', fret not. It's likely the only place some people have to make fools of themselves publicly [:wink:]God bless you, too, but ease back a little on the compliments (they're a little over the top).Blessings,Ian

Hi Ian,

It was meant to be presented as a little humour and perhaps a touch of sarcasim. Again my poor choice of words.

Sorry if I offended you.

Brolga

PS Have done a little editing above

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:06/07/2007 9:59 AMCopy HTML

I transfered this from another thread, thought more in line with this topic.Viz:....................

 

 

An incident that occurred on this thread a day or two ago, lead me to reflect on the cause and effect of things that happen in our lives. There is a saying, "do not believe anything you hear and only half of what you see" This I'm afraid, is rarely practiced. Let me use this incident as an illustration. The person, who's ID as "bearymagee", attacking me personally, came on and made some terrible and damning accusation regarding something that I was supposed to have done whilst in GRC, many years ago. She had believed in her mind, and obviously still does, a whole lot of "half truths" and lies that were told to her by a certain person who was going through a very emotional and confusing time, and "bearymagee" could see her own situation, with the sexual hang-ups as well as jealousy. I believe a cause for all this, is that the Devil, (not saying he can make you do things against your will, but) does take advantage of situations, where the Spirit of God does not exist in a person's life, and can influence on that objective.

Unfortunately, Satan is having a ball in such organizations such as GRC who do not preach Jesus, but with their mistaken views and opinions. If I can use the words of Sott1, whom I completely agree with.....   They belong, after all, to a movement that completely downplays the biblical Jesus Christ, whilst elevating an abstract substitute. They are conditioned to accept certain behaviors as being necessary, are coached to speak in 'tongues' and that was about it! Consequently, nothing that is encountered during their Revivalist days is any more substantial than fairy dust.

 

They would do well to heed the scripture. THEREFORE, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE YE SEPARATE, SAYS THE LORD. AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; AND I WILL WELCOME YOU. 2 Corinthians 6: 17

 

Brolga

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:30/06/2008 9:25 AMCopy HTML

To be honest - I think that while I was in RCI I forced myself to beleive what was presented to me, so I was redered mute in reflecting on thinking about the underlying theology.  It was only changed when they started pushing bible numerics in the 90's and everyone was walking around saying this number means this and that number is this bla bla bla, I then started to push back and started telling people openly that the numerics was a load of crap. 

But even after this awakening, I just did not have the precedent to draw apon in order to duplicate a reflection on doctrine.  When you are isolated from any other opinions, you dont have much to work with.

Even after the first year or so out of RCI, I was still licking my wounds and only just coping with being presented with different doctorine and theology as I was used to, and really meaty talks to deal with.

But now I reflect all the time and have a real thirst for getting it right.

I think the only way for me personally is to study at a reputable education providor like Ridley, BCV and some others and get into it. 

I think that theology is too important to get wrong now.  The Gospel is simple.  The rest needs to be built on a proper foundation.  There is no point being a good preacher if you do not base what you are preaching on correct biblical based theology. 

I have booked in to study already, and suspect I will be studying for the next ten years.  Never again will I rely on what others tell me alone. 

Reflect, Learn, share.

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Re:Theological reflection

Date Posted:30/06/2008 9:58 AMCopy HTML

Mr K,

If you're interested in undertaking formal theological study, which is a most admirable undertaking, then feel free to drop me a line (I'm on the faculty of one theological college, and I've also tutored students from BCV, Charles Sturt Uni, Sydney College of Divinity, and one or two 'Pente' colleges as well).

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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