The kingdom of God

Title: The kingdom of God
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I began a conversation in another thread (GRC) that may be better off here, in a new topic.

Epi and I discussed our thoughts about the Kingdom of God and what it means.

I'll endeavour to copy & paste from our discussion.

There's been heaps of negative stuff in the forum of late, and it would be nice to engage with people (Christian or non-Christian) who don't bring their hatred, bitterness, unresolved conflict with them, if that's OK? Just an exchange of views without some of the nastiness that has been going on.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Urchin

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:15 AMCopy HTML

Epi wrote:

Hi all,

I just have to put my bit in here.   It is good to see someone quote The Lord's Prayer because it was missing (more's the pity) from the Revival group I belonged to, which was RCI then RF -   they are pretty well all tarred with the same brush.

It was considered by RCI/RF NOT to be a prayer, and on these grounds, they wouldn't have a bar of it as such.   Those who accepted Jesus' words of   "When you pray, say, Our Father etc, and recited it, which is just about all churches except Revival groups, were considered by Revivalists to be using vain repetitions - babblings.

I was told many years ago that these verses in Matthew and Luke are just a leading up towards receiving the Holy Spirit and salvation with the bible evidence of speaking in tongues.   Consequently this wonderful prayer which almost everyone knows was absent from my life as a prayer for far too long, and even when it was prayed at certain public events which I attended, my mouth remained tightly shut.   I admit though that I always had reservations about RCI/RF explanations regarding these scriptures but just accepted it.

"As Jesus was praying one of his disciples said unto him "Lord teach us to pray........And he said unto them; When you pray, SAY Our Father which are in heaven........"   Luke 11:1-4.

In Matthew 6:9-15   "After this manner, therefore, pray;   Our Father........"

To overlook this prayer that Jesus taught us and the humble attitude that should accompany this prayer has to reveal huge deficiencies in those who twist and take away from these scriptures.   Also as stated in the above post:-

"Our Father.............forgive US OUR sins as WE forgive them who sin against US"     This is a community prayer!

God bless

Epi

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:17 AMCopy HTML

Urchin wrote:

You are spot on Epi, the Lord's Prayer is a community prayer. Like you, I'd gone along with RF/RC views for many years and consequently (even though I  questioned in my  mind  at times)  never understood why Jesus answered the disciples about how  they should pray - and yet as a group we skimmed over it. 

Last Sunday in church Pst Danny said that, in the Lord's Prayer the only person mentioned in the  singular sense is the the Lord - everyone else is in the plural  or 'they/others' e.g. OUR (not just 'my') Father...thy kingdom come on earth...(has to be about 'us') give US (not 'me') this day  OUR (not 'my') daily bread, and forgive us  OUR sins as WE forgive them who sin against US..for thine is the kingdom...

Jesus introduced the kingdom of God to us when He came to the earth. The kingdom of God is a ' place' (not heaven) but a place where His love is and His mercy is. 

As we start to embrace ' kingdom'  thinking, we start to move forward - away from the ' it's only  this church (revs)  that's right ' mentality.    Kingdom is about ALL of  the body, not individual denominations thinking that they're the only ones that have got it right. 

Urch

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:44 AMCopy HTML

The Lord's Prayer was always my favourite prayer as it encompassed everything that I believed Christianity stood for. (The GRC did say the Lord's Prayer on the very odd occaision.)

Respect for God, first and foremost, being willing to carry out and to be receptive to God's wishes. 

Kindness and compassion to others and most importantly forgiveness - to be able to forgive ourselves and move on and to be able to forgive others.
 
To be given the courage to lead a good life and to finally recognise that all of these things are possible only through the qualities that are given to us by God.

Once we recognise that God is all encompassing and all empowering I think that helps us to see the Kingdom of God as a place that can be reached here and now, not a state that can be attained only when we die.

There is a Psalm that says, "Surely His goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." 

Combine the Lord's Prayer and that and I think you have heaven on earth.

I think as Urch says, if you believe in this type of Kingdom, then it is impossible to be elitist or to have a seperation of Faiths.

Cheers,
Glad

"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：03/06/2008 6:51 AMCopy HTML

Good topic!

Hey G-t-b-o, the scripture you quoted "Surely His goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." reminds me of a teaching by Pastor Joseph Prince (New Creation Church, Singapore) who is a "grace preacher" as he calls himself. The teaching is entitled "The Shepherd and the Sheep" and in it Joseph Prince gives the meaning of this particular verse (i think by interpreting the hebrew? he's studied all that quite a bit) and he gets all excited and shouts "SURELY GOODNESS AND MERCY WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!!!! HE WILL HUNT YOU DOWN ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE...Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday - HE WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!!!"  It's really good, i know it looks scary but he says it with a smile! 

anyway...the Lord's prayer

I ALWAYS thought it was really weird that we disregarded this in Revival. It says there that Jesus told us that we should pray like that!! And it got me to thinking (while I was there) that saying "Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, praise the Lord, hallelujah, hallelujah, glory to God, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, hallelujah" the way Revivalists do was vain repitition. I even went as far as to ask other young people there if they ALWAYS meant every word and were truly concentrating 100% of the time when they were praying like that (coz I know I didn't!!) and most people said that like me they did it out of habit and repitition. Once again they're accusing other's of something that they're guilty of themselves. 

At church the Praise and Worship team wrote a song based around the Lord's prayer after our senior pastor had a revelation about it. it goes 

"All around the world we're singing
All around the world we're singing
Your King, Your Kingdom Come

Let your kingdom come, yeah
Let your will be done, whoah
Let your kingdom come, yeah
Let your will be done, whoah

Shining like a city on a hill
We your church will rise

All around the world we're singing
All around the world we're singing
Your King, Your Kingdom Come"

I think there's more words but that's all I can think of - Urch if you know them you can correct me! :-)

My Favourite part of that song is "ALL around the world we're singing" coz it's such a unifying statement. 

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：04/06/2008 12:21 AMCopy HTML

When Jesus answered the Pharisees question of when the kingdom of God would come, He told them; 

(Amplified) Luke 17:21 Nor will people say, Look! Here (it is) or, See, (it is) there!  For behold, the kingdom of God is within you (in your hearts) and among you (surrounding you).

(Message) Luke 17:20-21 Jesus, grilled by the Pharisees on when the kingdom of God would come, answered, "The kingdom of God doesn't come by counting the days on the calendar. Nor when someone says, 'Look here!' or, 'There it is!' And why?  Because God's kingdom is already among you."

The kingdom of God is present wherever human beings love and serve God and seek in obedience to extend acceptance of his kingly reign on earth.

Urch

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：04/06/2008 7:10 AMCopy HTML

you should read some stuff by Dr Myles Munroe

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Re：The kingdom of God

Date Posted：06/06/2008 6:38 AMCopy HTML

This is certainly a good topic.  Thanks for making it a new thread Urch.  Have been a bit busy lately but last night found myself pouring over the scriptures on the subject.
            _______________________________________________________________________________

It is a great topic Epi, and that was exactly the idea of it, to cause us to search out scriptures and be lifted up. Enough negative stuff happening all around us - we all need to encourage and uplift each other!

Coincidently, (or not?) this morning I was watching my usual 1/2 hour of Aust Christian Channel before I left for work - I like to do this each day as well as a quick read of the Word, and guess what the talk was about? The Kingdom of God!
I wrote down some notes as it was almost exactly what I've been thinking about lately (as well as what you wrote above.

I never cease to be amazed at how the Holy Spirit works when He wants us to search something out)

A very quick overview of his talk (I'll get back to it in more depth later)
Jesus showed His disciples the Lord's Prayer as an example as to how we should pray - God's prayer of what HE wants us to pray for i.e. His Kingdom to come. We are the salt and light of the earth and so we want to see His kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.  The Kingdom of God is wherever Christ is acknoweged as Lord, and so we put our lives, our families, our churches under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

"Let your kingdom come, let your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

Will write up the rest of the talk on the weekend when have more spare time

Love to all in Jesus' name, Urch

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Re：The kingdom of God

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A few more notes of the talk re the Kingdom of God:

The death and resurrection of Jesus became the launchpad to get into the kingdom of God. Jesus only mentioned being born again ONCE and that was to Nicodaemos BUT He taught the kingdom of God constantly - yes, we should have the born again experience but only so that we can preach the kindgom. We go to our workplaces, our social places and spread the kingdom culture wherever we are - we are the salt and light of the world. 

Mat 10:7-8 tells us that the kingdom of heaven (God) is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the leper, do good things. 
Mat 13:33 describes the kingdom as being like yeast. Yeast infiltrates and influences the flour and it rises - we also do the same, we influence those around us for the expansion of the kingdom.
13:44 The Kingdom is like a hidden treasure - when we find it we don't need anything else. When we find the KING of the kingdom, we don't need anything else, our souls are satisified. 
And 13:45 the kingdom is like a merchant seeking pearls. 
Heb 12:28 We are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken. Many kings and kingdoms have come and gone, but the kingdom of God remains and is unshakeable. Many have tried to shake/break it throughout the ages, but it remains and continues to grow.

'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven' 

God bless, Urch

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.

Sea Urchin
Rank：Poster Venti III Score：9110 Posts：436 From：Australia Register：15/02/2007 7:34 AM	Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:12 AMCopy HTML I began a conversation in another thread (GRC) that may be better off here, in a new topic. Epi and I discussed our thoughts about the Kingdom of God and what it means. I'll endeavour to copy & paste from our discussion. There's been heaps of negative stuff in the forum of late, and it would be nice to engage with people (Christian or non-Christian) who don't bring their hatred, bitterness, unresolved conflict with them, if that's OK? Just an exchange of views without some of the nastiness that has been going on. Anyone got any thoughts? Urchin
Sea Urchin	Share to: #1
Rank：Poster Venti III Score：9110 Posts：436 From：Australia Register：15/02/2007 7:34 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:15 AMCopy HTML Epi wrote: Hi all, I just have to put my bit in here. It is good to see someone quote The Lord's Prayer because it was missing (more's the pity) from the Revival group I belonged to, which was RCI then RF - they are pretty well all tarred with the same brush. It was considered by RCI/RF NOT to be a prayer, and on these grounds, they wouldn't have a bar of it as such. Those who accepted Jesus' words of "When you pray, say, Our Father etc, and recited it, which is just about all churches except Revival groups, were considered by Revivalists to be using vain repetitions - babblings. I was told many years ago that these verses in Matthew and Luke are just a leading up towards receiving the Holy Spirit and salvation with the bible evidence of speaking in tongues. Consequently this wonderful prayer which almost everyone knows was absent from my life as a prayer for far too long, and even when it was prayed at certain public events which I attended, my mouth remained tightly shut. I admit though that I always had reservations about RCI/RF explanations regarding these scriptures but just accepted it. "As Jesus was praying one of his disciples said unto him "Lord teach us to pray........And he said unto them; When you pray, SAY Our Father which are in heaven........" Luke 11:1-4. In Matthew 6:9-15 "After this manner, therefore, pray; Our Father........" To overlook this prayer that Jesus taught us and the humble attitude that should accompany this prayer has to reveal huge deficiencies in those who twist and take away from these scriptures. Also as stated in the above post:- "Our Father.............forgive US OUR sins as WE forgive them who sin against US" This is a community prayer! God bless Epi Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
Sea Urchin	Share to: #2
Rank：Poster Venti III Score：9110 Posts：436 From：Australia Register：15/02/2007 7:34 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:17 AMCopy HTML Urchin wrote: You are spot on Epi, the Lord's Prayer is a community prayer. Like you, I'd gone along with RF/RC views for many years and consequently (even though I questioned in my mind at times) never understood why Jesus answered the disciples about how they should pray - and yet as a group we skimmed over it. Last Sunday in church Pst Danny said that, in the Lord's Prayer the only person mentioned in the singular sense is the the Lord - everyone else is in the plural or 'they/others' e.g. OUR (not just 'my') Father...thy kingdom come on earth...(has to be about 'us') give US (not 'me') this day OUR (not 'my') daily bread, and forgive us OUR sins as WE forgive them who sin against US..for thine is the kingdom... Jesus introduced the kingdom of God to us when He came to the earth. The kingdom of God is a ' place' (not heaven) but a place where His love is and His mercy is. As we start to embrace ' kingdom' thinking, we start to move forward - away from the ' it's only this church (revs) that's right ' mentality. Kingdom is about ALL of the body, not individual denominations thinking that they're the only ones that have got it right. Urch Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
Glad-to be out	Share to: #3
Rank：Posterior Maximus Score：15160 Posts：701 From：Faroe_islands Register：07/04/2006 8:57 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：03/06/2008 2:44 AMCopy HTML The Lord's Prayer was always my favourite prayer as it encompassed everything that I believed Christianity stood for. (The GRC did say the Lord's Prayer on the very odd occaision.) Respect for God, first and foremost, being willing to carry out and to be receptive to God's wishes. Kindness and compassion to others and most importantly forgiveness - to be able to forgive ourselves and move on and to be able to forgive others. To be given the courage to lead a good life and to finally recognise that all of these things are possible only through the qualities that are given to us by God. Once we recognise that God is all encompassing and all empowering I think that helps us to see the Kingdom of God as a place that can be reached here and now, not a state that can be attained only when we die. There is a Psalm that says, "Surely His goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." Combine the Lord's Prayer and that and I think you have heaven on earth. I think as Urch says, if you believe in this type of Kingdom, then it is impossible to be elitist or to have a seperation of Faiths. Cheers, Glad "Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
Still Set Free	Share to: #4
Rank：Lurker Score：140 Posts：7 From：Australia Register：22/05/2008 6:50 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：03/06/2008 6:51 AMCopy HTML Good topic! Hey G-t-b-o, the scripture you quoted "Surely His goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life." reminds me of a teaching by Pastor Joseph Prince (New Creation Church, Singapore) who is a "grace preacher" as he calls himself. The teaching is entitled "The Shepherd and the Sheep" and in it Joseph Prince gives the meaning of this particular verse (i think by interpreting the hebrew? he's studied all that quite a bit) and he gets all excited and shouts "SURELY GOODNESS AND MERCY WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!!!! HE WILL HUNT YOU DOWN ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE...Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday - HE WILL HUNT YOU DOWN!!!" It's really good, i know it looks scary but he says it with a smile! anyway...the Lord's prayer I ALWAYS thought it was really weird that we disregarded this in Revival. It says there that Jesus told us that we should pray like that!! And it got me to thinking (while I was there) that saying "Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, praise the Lord, hallelujah, hallelujah, glory to God, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, hallelujah" the way Revivalists do was vain repitition. I even went as far as to ask other young people there if they ALWAYS meant every word and were truly concentrating 100% of the time when they were praying like that (coz I know I didn't!!) and most people said that like me they did it out of habit and repitition. Once again they're accusing other's of something that they're guilty of themselves. At church the Praise and Worship team wrote a song based around the Lord's prayer after our senior pastor had a revelation about it. it goes "All around the world we're singing All around the world we're singing Your King, Your Kingdom Come Let your kingdom come, yeah Let your will be done, whoah Let your kingdom come, yeah Let your will be done, whoah Shining like a city on a hill We your church will rise All around the world we're singing All around the world we're singing Your King, Your Kingdom Come" I think there's more words but that's all I can think of - Urch if you know them you can correct me! :-) My Favourite part of that song is "ALL around the world we're singing" coz it's such a unifying statement.
Sea Urchin	Share to: #5
Rank：Poster Venti III Score：9110 Posts：436 From：Australia Register：15/02/2007 7:34 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：04/06/2008 12:21 AMCopy HTML When Jesus answered the Pharisees question of when the kingdom of God would come, He told them; (Amplified) Luke 17:21 Nor will people say, Look! Here (it is) or, See, (it is) there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you (in your hearts) and among you (surrounding you). (Message) Luke 17:20-21 Jesus, grilled by the Pharisees on when the kingdom of God would come, answered, "The kingdom of God doesn't come by counting the days on the calendar. Nor when someone says, 'Look here!' or, 'There it is!' And why? Because God's kingdom is already among you." The kingdom of God is present wherever human beings love and serve God and seek in obedience to extend acceptance of his kingly reign on earth. Urch Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
Still Set Free	Share to: #6
Rank：Lurker Score：140 Posts：7 From：Australia Register：22/05/2008 6:50 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：04/06/2008 7:10 AMCopy HTML you should read some stuff by Dr Myles Munroe
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Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：06/06/2008 6:38 AMCopy HTML This is certainly a good topic. Thanks for making it a new thread Urch. Have been a bit busy lately but last night found myself pouring over the scriptures on the subject. _______________________________________________________________________________ It is a great topic Epi, and that was exactly the idea of it, to cause us to search out scriptures and be lifted up. Enough negative stuff happening all around us - we all need to encourage and uplift each other! Coincidently, (or not?) this morning I was watching my usual 1/2 hour of Aust Christian Channel before I left for work - I like to do this each day as well as a quick read of the Word, and guess what the talk was about? The Kingdom of God! I wrote down some notes as it was almost exactly what I've been thinking about lately (as well as what you wrote above. I never cease to be amazed at how the Holy Spirit works when He wants us to search something out) A very quick overview of his talk (I'll get back to it in more depth later) Jesus showed His disciples the Lord's Prayer as an example as to how we should pray - God's prayer of what HE wants us to pray for i.e. His Kingdom to come. We are the salt and light of the earth and so we want to see His kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. The Kingdom of God is wherever Christ is acknoweged as Lord, and so we put our lives, our families, our churches under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. "Let your kingdom come, let your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" Will write up the rest of the talk on the weekend when have more spare time Love to all in Jesus' name, Urch
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Rank：Poster Venti III Score：9110 Posts：436 From：Australia Register：15/02/2007 7:34 AM	Re：The kingdom of God Date Posted：11/06/2008 12:16 PMCopy HTML A few more notes of the talk re the Kingdom of God: The death and resurrection of Jesus became the launchpad to get into the kingdom of God. Jesus only mentioned being born again ONCE and that was to Nicodaemos BUT He taught the kingdom of God constantly - yes, we should have the born again experience but only so that we can preach the kindgom. We go to our workplaces, our social places and spread the kingdom culture wherever we are - we are the salt and light of the world. Mat 10:7-8 tells us that the kingdom of heaven (God) is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the leper, do good things. Mat 13:33 describes the kingdom as being like yeast. Yeast infiltrates and influences the flour and it rises - we also do the same, we influence those around us for the expansion of the kingdom. 13:44 The Kingdom is like a hidden treasure - when we find it we don't need anything else. When we find the KING of the kingdom, we don't need anything else, our souls are satisified. And 13:45 the kingdom is like a merchant seeking pearls. Heb 12:28 We are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken. Many kings and kingdoms have come and gone, but the kingdom of God remains and is unshakeable. Many have tried to shake/break it throughout the ages, but it remains and continues to grow. 'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven' God bless, Urch Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.