The 'tongues' of angels?

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Title: The 'tongues' of angels?

Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Bible, Beliefs, Scriptures and 'The Word' > Didaktikon debunks Revivalist 'Theology' Go to subcategory：

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Didaktikon

Rank：Not quite new

Score：771

Posts：26

From：Australia

Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM

Date Posted：18/03/2012 6:30 AMCopy HTML

Good afternoon, one and all.

I've just now been corresponding with a Revivalist, one who is in the process of repenting of this heresy, and I thought it might be helpful to share a portion of my response with the wider audience, here. I was asked what I thought of the Revivalist position regarding "tongues" being the supposed language of angels. This is what I shared by way of response:

Finally, you asked about the Revivalist point-of-view concerning the "tongues" being a/the language of angels. When I read Scripture--both testaments--I find that when the angels are recorded as communicating with humans, the communication is understandable to and by the humans. When Abraham talked with angels it apparently took place in Abraham's native language. When Peter had angelic visitations, he engaged these beings (probably) in Greek. When Cornelius spoke with an angel he did so in either Greek or Latin. Similarly, Scripture records God communicating with people in their native speech. So God spoke to Moses (probably) in Egyptian. The Prophets heard from God (probably) in Aramaic, and so on. Why, then, would Christians be different? Why would we need to communicate with God in something other than our normal speech?! Why would we need to use the (supposed) languages of the heavenly host?! What would be the benefit; perhaps more importantly, what would be the point?

The reality is that Lloyd Longfield completely missed the point that Paul was trying to make in his correcting of the proud Corinthian "tongues"-speakers; consequently, Longfield failed to understand the irony that followed Paul likening the Corinthian practice to "angelic" communication.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Epios Share to: #1

Rank：

Score：0

Posts：0

From：Australia

Register：29/05/2010 5:54 PM

Re：The 'tongues' of angels?

Date Posted：27/03/2012 4:49 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian and all,
Whenever in scripture the word 'tongues' occurs there appears, in the Lloyd founded groups, to be an inability to contextualise, which in this instance is aided by the KJV wording of 'though' rather than 'if' as used in almost all other translations. A detail I know, but significant I think.
1 Corinthians 13 : 1 - 3. (KJV, with bracketed (if ) as used in other translations.)

"Though (If) I speak with the tongues of men and angels and have not charity I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though (if) I have the gift of prophesy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though (if) I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains and have not charity, I am nothing.

And though (if) I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though (if) I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."
The use of the word 'though' being a idiom of the language of the time, a more appropriate and less confusing update to the KJV could read 'though I may' speak with the tongues of men and of angels etc.
Regarding Lloyd missing the point of Paul's overstatement in correcting the Corinthians; in talks Lloyd has often used similar overstatement to promote Revivalist tongues salvation doctrine. The difference though would be that Paul was correcting error whereas Lloyd was creating error.
Epi

Goodmen Share to: #2

Rank：Noobmeister

Score：430

Posts：20

From：Singapore

Register：28/03/2013 1:26 PM

Re：The 'tongues' of angels?

Date Posted：28/03/2013 3:50 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Epios
"Though (If) I speak with the tongues of men and angels and have not charity I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

And though (if) I have the gift of prophesy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though (if) I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains and have not charity, I am nothing.

And though (if) I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though (if) I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

So, what is charity ? The goodness of God ? But, tongues do have some relevence in the Holy Spirit context as it was listed down as one of the functions or characteristics of the Holy Spirit.

I remember the time when I had received mine at the Bible House in Singapore and the experience was an unforgetable one. I had experienced the power of God when His Spirit descended on me. My body was shaking quite violently, my tongue was twisting violently and rattling speedily like a snake, my breathing was heavy and I saw a 'sun'. The 'sunlight' was very bright and it was also very warm (hot) as if I'm going to get a sunburn soon. I felt a strange and unknown pressure that engulfed me at that time when it descended. Strange but it was a good memory anyway.

I had experienced the strange 'sunlight' coming from nowhere when I pray in the dark of the night. I remember the heat, the heat of the Sun.

The problem is I don't experience healing. That's an unfortunate thing for me, I guess. Without medication, you would have to face the full brunt of the viruses attack in your body. It was hell ! I think medication will be the way UNLESS He's able to give me healing power.

And yes, the ex-brethren were so rude and unfriendly. When I was a member there, I do see a bad practice that estranged their family members for attending the marriage and giving their blessings to the young couples. I don't think that was nice.

[FONT family=Arial color=blue size=14px]Has Anyone Spoken To God ?[/FONT]

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Title: The 'tongues' of angels?
Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Bible, Beliefs, Scriptures and 'The Word' > Didaktikon debunks Revivalist 'Theology'	Go to subcategory：

Didaktikon
Rank：Not quite new Score：771 Posts：26 From：Australia Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM	Date Posted：18/03/2012 6:30 AMCopy HTML Good afternoon, one and all. I've just now been corresponding with a Revivalist, one who is in the process of repenting of this heresy, and I thought it might be helpful to share a portion of my response with the wider audience, here. I was asked what I thought of the Revivalist position regarding "tongues" being the supposed language of angels. This is what I shared by way of response: Finally, you asked about the Revivalist point-of-view concerning the "tongues" being a/the language of angels. When I read Scripture--both testaments--I find that when the angels are recorded as communicating with humans, the communication is understandable to and by the humans. When Abraham talked with angels it apparently took place in Abraham's native language. When Peter had angelic visitations, he engaged these beings (probably) in Greek. When Cornelius spoke with an angel he did so in either Greek or Latin. Similarly, Scripture records God communicating with people in their native speech. So God spoke to Moses (probably) in Egyptian. The Prophets heard from God (probably) in Aramaic, and so on. Why, then, would Christians be different? Why would we need to communicate with God in something other than our normal speech?! Why would we need to use the (supposed) languages of the heavenly host?! What would be the benefit; perhaps more importantly, what would be the point? The reality is that Lloyd Longfield completely missed the point that Paul was trying to make in his correcting of the proud Corinthian "tongues"-speakers; consequently, Longfield failed to understand the irony that followed Paul likening the Corinthian practice to "angelic" communication. Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Epios	Share to: #1
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Australia Register：29/05/2010 5:54 PM	Re：The 'tongues' of angels? Date Posted：27/03/2012 4:49 AMCopy HTML Hi Ian and all, Whenever in scripture the word 'tongues' occurs there appears, in the Lloyd founded groups, to be an inability to contextualise, which in this instance is aided by the KJV wording of 'though' rather than 'if' as used in almost all other translations. A detail I know, but significant I think. 1 Corinthians 13 : 1 - 3. (KJV, with bracketed (if ) as used in other translations.) "Though (If) I speak with the tongues of men and angels and have not charity I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though (if) I have the gift of prophesy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though (if) I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains and have not charity, I am nothing. And though (if) I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though (if) I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." The use of the word 'though' being a idiom of the language of the time, a more appropriate and less confusing update to the KJV could read 'though I may' speak with the tongues of men and of angels etc. Regarding Lloyd missing the point of Paul's overstatement in correcting the Corinthians; in talks Lloyd has often used similar overstatement to promote Revivalist tongues salvation doctrine. The difference though would be that Paul was correcting error whereas Lloyd was creating error. Epi
Goodmen	Share to: #2
Rank：Noobmeister Score：430 Posts：20 From：Singapore Register：28/03/2013 1:26 PM	Re：The 'tongues' of angels? Date Posted：28/03/2013 3:50 PMCopy HTML Reply to Epios "Though (If) I speak with the tongues of men and angels and have not charity I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though (if) I have the gift of prophesy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though (if) I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains and have not charity, I am nothing. And though (if) I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though (if) I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." So, what is charity ? The goodness of God ? But, tongues do have some relevence in the Holy Spirit context as it was listed down as one of the functions or characteristics of the Holy Spirit. I remember the time when I had received mine at the Bible House in Singapore and the experience was an unforgetable one. I had experienced the power of God when His Spirit descended on me. My body was shaking quite violently, my tongue was twisting violently and rattling speedily like a snake, my breathing was heavy and I saw a 'sun'. The 'sunlight' was very bright and it was also very warm (hot) as if I'm going to get a sunburn soon. I felt a strange and unknown pressure that engulfed me at that time when it descended. Strange but it was a good memory anyway. I had experienced the strange 'sunlight' coming from nowhere when I pray in the dark of the night. I remember the heat, the heat of the Sun. The problem is I don't experience healing. That's an unfortunate thing for me, I guess. Without medication, you would have to face the full brunt of the viruses attack in your body. It was hell ! I think medication will be the way UNLESS He's able to give me healing power. And yes, the ex-brethren were so rude and unfriendly. When I was a member there, I do see a bad practice that estranged their family members for attending the marriage and giving their blessings to the young couples. I don't think that was nice. [FONT family=Arial color=blue size=14px]Has Anyone Spoken To God ?[/FONT]