The Stone of Scone

Title: The Stone of Scone
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Date Posted：07/10/2005 12:55 AMCopy HTML

I found this interesting article about the Stone of Sconeat this linkhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-1786116,00.html...The Sunday Times - ScotlandThe Sunday TimesSeptember 18, 2005Stone's biblical past is exposed as mythMark Macaskill and Jason AllardyceACCORDING to legend, it was used as a "pillow" by Jacob, the founder of Israel, as he dreamt of angels ascending to heaven on a ladder.The fabled Stone of Destiny was then taken from Palestine to the north, where it became the ancient symbol of Scottish kingship.After spending centuries resting at Westminster Abbey, it takes pride of place in the Great Hall of Edinburgh Castle. Now the Duchess of Hamilton claims to have unearthed evidence that unpicks the myth. She says she has proof that the stone, far from originating in the Middle East, was mined somewhat closer to home ? Perthshire, in fact.Jill Hamilton, the author and historian, took rock samples from the Palestinian village of Beitin, the traditional site of Jacob's epiphany.The samples, which are almost identical in composition to those at the time of Jacob's supposed visit more than 2,000 years ago, were analysed by scientists at the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh. They discovered that the samples contained fine-grained crystalline limestone, in stark contrast to the sandstone composition of the the Stone of Destiny.Emrys Phillips, the geologist who carried out the tests, said the samples were as different as "chalk and cheese". The stone was instead hewn from the 400m-year-old sandstone rocks around Scone.Hamilton is adamant that her findings prove that the Stone of Destiny and Jacob's pillow are not the same. "There is no doubt in my mind that the stone originated in Scotland and not Palestine as the legend tells us," she said ."I decided to look more closely at the myth of the stone because I'm interested in the influence of the Old Testament on Britain and the stone is a physical link which I wanted to verify. I think it is clear from the geological tests that the legend is without foundation."The origins of the flat square stone are shrouded in mystery. It is known variously as the Stone of Scone, the Stone of Destiny, Jacob's Pillow and the Coronation Stone. Legend has it that Beitin is the biblical Bethel, the traditional site of the rock upon which Jacob laid his head while having the dream described in the Book of Genesis.The story goes that the stone made its way from the Holy Land through Egypt, Sicily and Spain to Ireland, then Scotland, where it reached the monastery of Scone in the 9th century. Scottish kings sat on the stone to be crowned until it was captured by Edward I in the late 13th century.In December 1950, a group of Scottish nationalists staged a daring raid on Westminster Abbey to steal back the stone. After 15 weeks the stone was found dumped at Arbroath Abbey and returned to London. No charges were ever brought.It was returned to Scotland on St Andrew's Day in 1996 after a campaign spearheaded by Michael Forsyth, then secretary of state for Scotland.There was a 21-gun salute echoed by the destroyer HMS Newcastle in Leith harbour, soldiers lined the Royal Mile and bands from the Royal Marines and the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards blasted out anthems."The origin of the stone has long been shrouded in myth," said Professor David Breeze from Historic Scotland, who has co-written an official guidebook to the relic."The connection with the Middle East is strong and in the Middle Ages the idea that the stone had been Jacob's pillow was used to justify territorial aggrandisement. We believe the link to Scone is strong and it is highly likely that its origins lie in the ancient Pictish kingdom of Scotland."De-classified government papers have revealed that John Major's government repatriated the Stone of Destiny after concluding that it would damage the Scottish National party.In a paper for the prime minister in 1996, Forsyth wrote: "The return of the stone would not strengthen the SNP but undermine its attempt to exploit grievance politics."It won Forsyth plaudits at the time but his prediction proved misguided. At the general election in 1997 the SNP's Westminster seats rose from four to six. But few would attribute the upturn in the party's fortunes to nationalist sentiment caused by the stone's return.Well this goes to show that the RCI... RF ( and not forgetting the CAI ) are into relic worshipping....I have heard of a Catholic Parish in France that holds the foreskin from Jesus when he was circumsized as an 8 day old baby....anon

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：07/10/2005 8:05 AMCopy HTML

I went to Edinburgh castle and saw the stone a few years ago. Basicly it is just a stone.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price / I have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：07/10/2005 8:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Terror Australis 

I went to Edinburgh castle and saw the stone a few years ago. Basicly it is just a stone. 

King Edward I stole the stone from the Scots during a skirmish of some sort and he brought it down to England as a symbol of Scottish subjugation but of course the proud Scotsman would never subjugate themselves to the English so the Scotties let the English keep the stone and the Scots carried on as if nothing ever happened.... As far as the bit about the Scotish Royalty being descendants of the Irish Royalty - perhaps this is true but tradition has always been that Royalty married Royalty and gave birth to new generations of royalty . It has never changed over the millenium until very recent times eg Prince Charles and his Camilla. Golly when Queen Victoria died in 1901, she had 95 descendants from her person scattered across all the royal houses of Europe ( and this in spite of her husband Prince Albert with his noted Prince Albert body piercing  .... 
So Terra Australis, if you were looking for a few minutes kip would you think the stone of scone make a nice pillow while you snorted a few zzzz's out  ???
 
anon

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：07/10/2005 9:02 PMCopy HTML

Speaking of the Scots... this was sent to me today. It looks like the B.I. link had been hinted at way before the 1700s eh.... hmmm, there's more to this than meets the eye methinks... dunno... what do you think?
The Scots declare their Scythian connections... 
The Declaration of Arbroath (excerpt) 
The Declaration of Arbroath was written in Latin and promulgated on April 6th, 1320, at Arbroath Abbey (on the east coast of Scotland, just north of St. Andrews, the home of golf). Its purpose was to convince Pope John XXII, resident in Avignon, France, that Scotland was an independent country. This rebutted the English claim to rule Scotland. Famed Scottish leader, Robert the Bruce, had defeated the English at Bannockburn in 1314, and recaptured Berwick-on-Tweed (a city on the border with England) from the English in 1319.
Particularly interesting is that the Declaration claims a connection between the Scots and the Scythians, and also mentions the Exodus of the Children of Israel from Egypt. The ancient tribe of the Scythians once lived in the area to which the "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel" were deported by the Assyrian Empire (according to the Bible and historical sources).
Another Scottish connection to the Scythians is that, according to legend, Andrew, one of Christ's apostles, preached to the Scythians. St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland. The Scottish flag contains a Cross of Saint Andrew.
For much more information, read "The Declaration of Arbroath" by Sir James Fergusson, Edinburgh University Press, 1970.
The Declaration of Arbroath (English Translation)... community of the realm of Scotland send all manner of filial reverence, with devout kisses of his blessed feet.Holy Father and Lord in Christ, the Lord John, by divine providence Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Roman and Universal Church, ...
Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner.
The high qualities and deserts of these people, were they not otherwise manifest, gain glory enough from this: that the King of kings and Lord of lords, our Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passion and Resurrection, called them, even though settled in the uttermost parts of the earth, almost the first to His most holy faith. Nor would He have them confirmed in that faith by merely anyone but by the first of His Apostles -- by calling, though second or third in rank -- the most gentle Saint Andrew, the Blessed Peter's brother, and desired him to keep them under his protection as their patron forever. 
The Most Holy Fathers your predecessors ... and blah blah blah
Yeah, the stone looks uncomfortable... he must have had a really crook neck!

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：12/10/2005 2:37 PMCopy HTML

the B.I. link had been hinted at way before the 1700s eh.... hmmm, there's more to this than meets the eye methinks... dunno... what do you think?The Scots declare their Scythian connections...

That declaration of indepenence was written in the 1300s... What's up with that? I'm not vehemently for or against B.I. but I wonder if this mythology is based on some truth... What were the Scott's drinking when they wrote this document 700 years ago?
Problems With the Stone
British Israelism claims that the stone under the Queen of England's coronation chair is the very "pillar stone of Jacob" which was first transported by Jacob, and finally by Jeremiah to the British Isles, via Egypt.
The Scriptures know nothing of this invented event! We would expect, if the theory is correct, that the English coronation stone could be analyzed and found to be of the type found in Israel. The stone has been analyzed and "The Marson Report, " page 128, records:
"The stone in Westminster Abbey has been analyzed and shown to be a calcareous type of red sandstone of Scottish origin."
B.I. - True or false?

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：12/10/2005 2:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous 

The Scots declare their Scythian connections 

That would be interesting. Because according to Josepus the Scythians were Magog. And according to Herodotus the Scythians said their first king was called Targitaus and he lived about 1000 years before Darius, that is about the time of the exodus. Clearly by looking at the historic sources there is no way the Scythians can be linked to Israel even if they are linked to the Scots.
For anyone curious about who the Scythians really are there is quite a lot of information in Brett's letter about them.
Basically:
1/ They were idenified as Magog by Josephus
2/ They invaded Babylon, Judah and got as far as Egypt in the 6th century BC. 
3/ They were cannibalistic, nomadic horsemen who came from Central Asia at about the same time Israel was in captivity. Strange that "Israel" went into captivity, jumped on horses and sacked Judah, became cannibals, forgot their language and identity and made up a new one all within about 100 years.
4/ Isaiah 7:8 says that within 65 years Ephraim would cease as a people. That 65 year period fell at the height of Scythian power in the land.
5/ the destroying army that Jeremiah warned of (Jer 4) was probably the Scythian invasion.
6/The Scythians first appear in Assyrian annals as Ishkuzai, who are reported as pouring in from the north some time around 700 BC, settling in Ascania and modern Azerbaijan as far as to the southeast of Lake Urmia. Israel went into captivity from the south. (from wikipedia - scythians - link below)
check out the history for yourselves. One of the wonders of the 21st century is the vast amount of information at yuor disposal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
Below is a link to what John Fox claims to quote in Today Tomorrow and the Great Beyond concerning the Scythians. The paragraph Fox quotes is the fourth down - you don't have to look far to see Fox is a liar extraordinaire.
http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.4.iv.html

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Re：The Stone of Scone

Date Posted：24/12/2005 2:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : pilinut

Reply to : AnonymousThe Scots declare their Scythian connectionsThat would be interesting. Because according to Josepus the Scythians wereMagog.And according to Herodotus the Scythians said their first king was called Targitaus and he lived about 1000 years before Darius, that is about the time of the exodus. Clearly by looking at the historic sources there is no way the Scythians can be linked to Israel even if they are linked to the Scots.

The scythians were an Empire that existed before the 10 tribes were lost.Spoke a different language family and had different social habits to the Israelites .

So unless the Israelites have gone back in history and changed all these things they are not Scyths nor Cimery nor Anglo Saxons .

Also the Arbroath Declaration uses the time of the Israelites coming out of Egypt as a time frame .It does not state that the Scots came out of Egypt. Scots are of the Greek "race" being descendants of the Irish who were descended from the Myletians, GREEKS no lost 10 tribes here.

Anonymous
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：06/04/2001 10:54 PM	Date Posted：07/10/2005 12:55 AMCopy HTML I found this interesting article about the Stone of Sconeat this linkhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-1786116,00.html...The Sunday Times - ScotlandThe Sunday TimesSeptember 18, 2005Stone's biblical past is exposed as mythMark Macaskill and Jason AllardyceACCORDING to legend, it was used as a "pillow" by Jacob, the founder of Israel, as he dreamt of angels ascending to heaven on a ladder.The fabled Stone of Destiny was then taken from Palestine to the north, where it became the ancient symbol of Scottish kingship.After spending centuries resting at Westminster Abbey, it takes pride of place in the Great Hall of Edinburgh Castle. Now the Duchess of Hamilton claims to have unearthed evidence that unpicks the myth. She says she has proof that the stone, far from originating in the Middle East, was mined somewhat closer to home ? Perthshire, in fact.Jill Hamilton, the author and historian, took rock samples from the Palestinian village of Beitin, the traditional site of Jacob's epiphany.The samples, which are almost identical in composition to those at the time of Jacob's supposed visit more than 2,000 years ago, were analysed by scientists at the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh. They discovered that the samples contained fine-grained crystalline limestone, in stark contrast to the sandstone composition of the the Stone of Destiny.Emrys Phillips, the geologist who carried out the tests, said the samples were as different as "chalk and cheese". The stone was instead hewn from the 400m-year-old sandstone rocks around Scone.Hamilton is adamant that her findings prove that the Stone of Destiny and Jacob's pillow are not the same. "There is no doubt in my mind that the stone originated in Scotland and not Palestine as the legend tells us," she said ."I decided to look more closely at the myth of the stone because I'm interested in the influence of the Old Testament on Britain and the stone is a physical link which I wanted to verify. I think it is clear from the geological tests that the legend is without foundation."The origins of the flat square stone are shrouded in mystery. It is known variously as the Stone of Scone, the Stone of Destiny, Jacob's Pillow and the Coronation Stone. Legend has it that Beitin is the biblical Bethel, the traditional site of the rock upon which Jacob laid his head while having the dream described in the Book of Genesis.The story goes that the stone made its way from the Holy Land through Egypt, Sicily and Spain to Ireland, then Scotland, where it reached the monastery of Scone in the 9th century. Scottish kings sat on the stone to be crowned until it was captured by Edward I in the late 13th century.In December 1950, a group of Scottish nationalists staged a daring raid on Westminster Abbey to steal back the stone. After 15 weeks the stone was found dumped at Arbroath Abbey and returned to London. No charges were ever brought.It was returned to Scotland on St Andrew's Day in 1996 after a campaign spearheaded by Michael Forsyth, then secretary of state for Scotland.There was a 21-gun salute echoed by the destroyer HMS Newcastle in Leith harbour, soldiers lined the Royal Mile and bands from the Royal Marines and the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards blasted out anthems."The origin of the stone has long been shrouded in myth," said Professor David Breeze from Historic Scotland, who has co-written an official guidebook to the relic."The connection with the Middle East is strong and in the Middle Ages the idea that the stone had been Jacob's pillow was used to justify territorial aggrandisement. We believe the link to Scone is strong and it is highly likely that its origins lie in the ancient Pictish kingdom of Scotland."De-classified government papers have revealed that John Major's government repatriated the Stone of Destiny after concluding that it would damage the Scottish National party.In a paper for the prime minister in 1996, Forsyth wrote: "The return of the stone would not strengthen the SNP but undermine its attempt to exploit grievance politics."It won Forsyth plaudits at the time but his prediction proved misguided. At the general election in 1997 the SNP's Westminster seats rose from four to six. But few would attribute the upturn in the party's fortunes to nationalist sentiment caused by the stone's return.Well this goes to show that the RCI... RF ( and not forgetting the CAI ) are into relic worshipping....I have heard of a Catholic Parish in France that holds the foreskin from Jesus when he was circumsized as an 8 day old baby....anon
Jojo the Lion	Share to: #1
Rank：Rookier II Score：1870 Posts：83 From：Unknown Register：09/02/2004 9:29 AM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：07/10/2005 8:05 AMCopy HTML I went to Edinburgh castle and saw the stone a few years ago. Basicly it is just a stone. And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price / I have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Anonymous	Share to: #2
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：06/04/2001 10:54 PM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：07/10/2005 8:26 AMCopy HTML Reply to : Terror Australis I went to Edinburgh castle and saw the stone a few years ago. Basicly it is just a stone. King Edward I stole the stone from the Scots during a skirmish of some sort and he brought it down to England as a symbol of Scottish subjugation but of course the proud Scotsman would never subjugate themselves to the English so the Scotties let the English keep the stone and the Scots carried on as if nothing ever happened.... As far as the bit about the Scotish Royalty being descendants of the Irish Royalty - perhaps this is true but tradition has always been that Royalty married Royalty and gave birth to new generations of royalty . It has never changed over the millenium until very recent times eg Prince Charles and his Camilla. Golly when Queen Victoria died in 1901, she had 95 descendants from her person scattered across all the royal houses of Europe ( and this in spite of her husband Prince Albert with his noted Prince Albert body piercing .... So Terra Australis, if you were looking for a few minutes kip would you think the stone of scone make a nice pillow while you snorted a few zzzz's out ??? anon
MothandRust	Share to: #3
Rank：Forum Oracle Score：41550 Posts：1881 From：Australia Register：27/02/2004 11:21 PM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：07/10/2005 9:02 PMCopy HTML Speaking of the Scots... this was sent to me today. It looks like the B.I. link had been hinted at way before the 1700s eh.... hmmm, there's more to this than meets the eye methinks... dunno... what do you think? The Scots declare their Scythian connections... The Declaration of Arbroath (excerpt) The Declaration of Arbroath was written in Latin and promulgated on April 6th, 1320, at Arbroath Abbey (on the east coast of Scotland, just north of St. Andrews, the home of golf). Its purpose was to convince Pope John XXII, resident in Avignon, France, that Scotland was an independent country. This rebutted the English claim to rule Scotland. Famed Scottish leader, Robert the Bruce, had defeated the English at Bannockburn in 1314, and recaptured Berwick-on-Tweed (a city on the border with England) from the English in 1319. Particularly interesting is that the Declaration claims a connection between the Scots and the Scythians, and also mentions the Exodus of the Children of Israel from Egypt. The ancient tribe of the Scythians once lived in the area to which the "Lost Ten Tribes of Israel" were deported by the Assyrian Empire (according to the Bible and historical sources). Another Scottish connection to the Scythians is that, according to legend, Andrew, one of Christ's apostles, preached to the Scythians. St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland. The Scottish flag contains a Cross of Saint Andrew. For much more information, read "The Declaration of Arbroath" by Sir James Fergusson, Edinburgh University Press, 1970. The Declaration of Arbroath (English Translation) ... community of the realm of Scotland send all manner of filial reverence, with devout kisses of his blessed feet.Holy Father and Lord in Christ, the Lord John, by divine providence Supreme Pontiff of the Holy Roman and Universal Church, ... Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of their own royal stock, the line unbroken a single foreigner. The high qualities and deserts of these people, were they not otherwise manifest, gain glory enough from this: that the King of kings and Lord of lords, our Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passion and Resurrection, called them, even though settled in the uttermost parts of the earth, almost the first to His most holy faith. Nor would He have them confirmed in that faith by merely anyone but by the first of His Apostles -- by calling, though second or third in rank -- the most gentle Saint Andrew, the Blessed Peter's brother, and desired him to keep them under his protection as their patron forever. The Most Holy Fathers your predecessors ... and blah blah blah Yeah, the stone looks uncomfortable... he must have had a really crook neck! Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
Anonymous	Share to: #4
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：06/04/2001 10:54 PM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：12/10/2005 2:37 PMCopy HTML the B.I. link had been hinted at way before the 1700s eh.... hmmm, there's more to this than meets the eye methinks... dunno... what do you think?The Scots declare their Scythian connections... That declaration of indepenence was written in the 1300s... What's up with that? I'm not vehemently for or against B.I. but I wonder if this mythology is based on some truth... What were the Scott's drinking when they wrote this document 700 years ago? Problems With the Stone British Israelism claims that the stone under the Queen of England's coronation chair is the very "pillar stone of Jacob" which was first transported by Jacob, and finally by Jeremiah to the British Isles, via Egypt. The Scriptures know nothing of this invented event! We would expect, if the theory is correct, that the English coronation stone could be analyzed and found to be of the type found in Israel. The stone has been analyzed and "The Marson Report, " page 128, records: "The stone in Westminster Abbey has been analyzed and shown to be a calcareous type of red sandstone of Scottish origin." B.I. - True or false?
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Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：12/10/2005 2:51 PMCopy HTML Reply to : Anonymous The Scots declare their Scythian connections That would be interesting. Because according to Josepus the Scythians were Magog. And according to Herodotus the Scythians said their first king was called Targitaus and he lived about 1000 years before Darius, that is about the time of the exodus. Clearly by looking at the historic sources there is no way the Scythians can be linked to Israel even if they are linked to the Scots. For anyone curious about who the Scythians really are there is quite a lot of information in Brett's letter about them. Basically: 1/ They were idenified as Magog by Josephus 2/ They invaded Babylon, Judah and got as far as Egypt in the 6th century BC. 3/ They were cannibalistic, nomadic horsemen who came from Central Asia at about the same time Israel was in captivity. Strange that "Israel" went into captivity, jumped on horses and sacked Judah, became cannibals, forgot their language and identity and made up a new one all within about 100 years. 4/ Isaiah 7:8 says that within 65 years Ephraim would cease as a people. That 65 year period fell at the height of Scythian power in the land. 5/ the destroying army that Jeremiah warned of (Jer 4) was probably the Scythian invasion. 6/The Scythians first appear in Assyrian annals as Ishkuzai, who are reported as pouring in from the north some time around 700 BC, settling in Ascania and modern Azerbaijan as far as to the southeast of Lake Urmia. Israel went into captivity from the south. (from wikipedia - scythians - link below) check out the history for yourselves. One of the wonders of the 21st century is the vast amount of information at yuor disposal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians Below is a link to what John Fox claims to quote in Today Tomorrow and the Great Beyond concerning the Scythians. The paragraph Fox quotes is the fourth down - you don't have to look far to see Fox is a liar extraordinaire. http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.4.iv.html
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Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：06/04/2001 10:54 PM	Re：The Stone of Scone Date Posted：24/12/2005 2:58 PMCopy HTML Reply to : pilinut Reply to : AnonymousThe Scots declare their Scythian connectionsThat would be interesting. Because according to Josepus the Scythians wereMagog.And according to Herodotus the Scythians said their first king was called Targitaus and he lived about 1000 years before Darius, that is about the time of the exodus. Clearly by looking at the historic sources there is no way the Scythians can be linked to Israel even if they are linked to the Scots. The scythians were an Empire that existed before the 10 tribes were lost.Spoke a different language family and had different social habits to the Israelites . So unless the Israelites have gone back in history and changed all these things they are not Scyths nor Cimery nor Anglo Saxons . Also the Arbroath Declaration uses the time of the Israelites coming out of Egypt as a time frame .It does not state that the Scots came out of Egypt. Scots are of the Greek "race" being descendants of the Irish who were descended from the Myletians, GREEKS no lost 10 tribes here.