Yeuch the teaching is worst than I thought:

"The "Tithe" is a tenth part of our income. One in ten. One shilling in ten shillings and so on. You will find it referred to in Leviticus 27:30, "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's : it is holy unto the Lord."

CAI I would counsel you to read what the Bible really says about "Tithing"..  Firstly it is not taught in the New Testament and secondly tithing has nothing to do with income in terms of money.

anon aussie

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Yeuch the teaching is worst than I thought:"The "Tithe" is a tenth part of our income. One in ten. One shilling in ten shillings and so on. You will find it referred to inLeviticus 27:30, "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's : it is holy unto the Lord."CAI I would counsel you to read what the Bible really says about "Tithing".. Firstly it isnottaught in the New Testament and secondly tithing has nothing to do with income in terms of money.anon aussie

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Re Tithing teaching.... Scott Williams is, according to the following pasted message, "cursing" or placing a "curse" all the members of the CAI when he FORCES them to pay tithes ..

I agree

Ps Did you notice this extraordinary statement:

Manipulating a person to give (whether directly or indirectly) is a form of witchcraft...........

anon Aussie

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Ps Did you notice this extraordinary statement:Manipulating a person to give (whether directly or indirectly) is a form of witchcraft...........anon Aussie

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I certainly agree with this statement!  Wichcraft is the sin of manipulation.  Parents use this on their children when they try to manipulate them to follow their agenda by trying to make them feel guilty or by telling them that they owe them something.  Pastors often do the same, placing guilt on the flock by shaming them for missing meetings etc.  Curses are spoken by pastors as well when they predict that those leaving the fellowship will come into bad fortune and not be blessed by God.  This is completely opposite to the Bible teaching which is "Bless those that persecute you.  Bless, I say and curse not".

However, I am not sure what the first posting on this page is trying to say.  There is a lot of occult stuff around and it is designed to lead our children into Satan's clutches.  I don't see anything wrong in teaching our children that some books, games, video games and tv programmes are unsavoury.  I thinhk ballance is what we are looking for.  If children are educated in a ballanced way they will choose what is right.  After all much is occult around us and we can't avoid it all, but it is good to be aware of it and so be on guard.  That is my view anyway.  I think that these Revival Centre organisations are manipulative and controling, but not everything they say is wrong just because they say it.

Reply to : Jesus is God Believer [Anonymous]

It may be ok to give a teaching on certain matters but the choice to implement any teaching should always remain with the parents. In this case,  CAI, the "teachings" are enforced by the church (If you can call the CAI a "church") upon the parents through mind control. You see the CAI exercises controls on the children of the "church" members by manipulating the parents thinking and reasoning. What the CAI are attempting to do is to make their official teaching the "law" of the church. Any parent should exercise the right to choose as the parent sees fit for their child and not because the "church" leaders stipulate it.  In the CAI, "teaching" is law. This is a dangerous practice for a "church" to engage in .eg the CAI leader, Scott Williams sent around a teaching telling mothers that it is good for them to have their new born sons circumsized and what a terrible thing this can lead to  because suddenly mothers come under a "guilt" complex and control to get their sons circumsized. Making a "church" teaching law for all to follow is what sets the CAI ( including RCI, RF GRG ) apart as a cult.  I would encourage you, Jesus is God Believer ( and others ) to take a closer look at the CAI teachings with this in mind. Troy Waller has made extraodinary effort at setting this as a clear objective on his website, "RC.Cultweb.net".  I feel that the CAI are merely publishing their teachings on their website as a means of proclamation of self righteousness ie they are advertising to the world that they are a church with high moral standard and fibre but alas for the poor members of the CAI, the truth is otherwise.

Aussie anon

Reply to : Nazi-hunter

It is a pity we cannot read and understand the Swedish tongue. No doubt if we could understand Swedish, you would have some good stories to tell so if you want to share some story that has affected you adversely then why not tell everyone on this forum of your bad times with the CAI in Swedish. We readers can always copy and paste into an online translater such as Alta Vista Babel to read..

Aussie Anon

"However, I am not sure what the first posting on this page is trying to say.  There is a lot of occult stuff around and it is designed to lead our children into Satan's clutches.  I don't see anything wrong in teaching our children that some books, games, video games and tv programmes are unsavoury.  I thinhk ballance is what we are looking for.  If children are educated in a ballanced way they will choose what is right.  After all much is occult around us and we can't avoid it all, but it is good to be aware of it and so be on guard.  That is my view anyway.  I think that these Revival Centre organisations are manipulative and controling, but not everything they say is wrong just because they say it."

No, not everything CAI says is wrong just because it? CAI who? saying it. However, the way they say things is what rubs most people up the wrong way. The whole article on families, games, etc. is written as though they have the monopoly on truth, and as someone else already pointed out, it should be up to the parents to decide how to bring up their children .They are the ones who have to account for it, and to live with the consequences.

I personally would not allow my child to read an Enid Blyton book, or at least not without explaining that she lived in a time when people thought being black meant you were backward, and that it was not rude to call someone a "heathen".  Monopoly can also turn children into nasty little brats, in fact any board game can if they are the one not winning...

However what amazes me most is this CAI quote: The family is the foundation of our society...

that may well be, but it is most certainly not the foundation of the CAI. In the CAI proper family time is discouraged, i.e. you are controlled by your wife or children if you spend time with them. As a man you must spend more time with other men than your family, and your wife should just make sure she gets on with organising everything at home while you do the supposedly important work of Scott (God). Children rarely see their fathers and because their mothers are primarily trying to "keep them in order" they do not grow up in a loving caring environment, as a result there are some extremely disturbed young adults in the CAI who could not survive in the outside world. Maybe CAI should deal with its own issues and failings before trying to preach to the world over the WWW about what they may read, watch and play.

I don? even know what Bozo means, but it? truly something rude. You said he had problems before CAI and that he was there for 5 mins. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HIS LIFE? You know nothing about his life, you are rude and you have problems yourself, and it has probably been for ages. CAI are bad, the people there are bad, if they weren? that before they were captured by CAI-they will be, I KNOW this. Only look at yourself, you Bozo yourself, you are rude, unpolite, you harass, you lie-you witchcraft-scum. Go back to that CAI-...hole where you belong to you evil bastard-or you misled person-then I only feel sorry for you.

CAI stinks and will ever be. I have lost my hope for CAI a long time ago. CAI harass innocent people on internet, they "hang" out them from anonymous people-they in CAI who do this they are so evil-truly evil. What has Scott really done to them? Were they this sort of monsters before Scott manipulated them.

hey bozo,   if you don't like it then keep out of anonymous forums.   if you live by the sword, then you bla bla.....  

You're on here often enough with yet another way of saying the same old thing that CAI are evil nazi's, but give no facts:    well I think you must also be a NAZI, because you're from Sweden and everyone knows you guys helped out the nazi's and made a tidy profit selling them hardware and stuff during the war (including the classic tank-design, which we know today as the Volvo).  

your friends in CAI would probably say, that you need to start making nails with heads.  its not great, when I get to the bottom of one of your rants, and you haven't actually said anything again. 

anon

I think I can remember on the old boards that the CAI elders use to have or at one stage have rebuking sessions and quite emotional public ones at that   ...  Can you imagine the scenario : Brother So and So getting up and opening his mouth and saying "Brother Pierre, I rebuke you, you have not spent enough time reading and obeying all the Pacific Headquarters  Instructions, you are lazy etc etc...  Can anyone confirm this or shed some light on this

Oh yeah

Macho Man

answer = yes.  open rebuke was not at all uncommon.  but so what?  can you not dig up something a bit juicier for this forum?   please, if we're going to be dragging people's names through the mud on a world wide medium (whilst we stay anonymous) lets at least make it justified and worth while.   

For a person, never in the CAI or a cult as detrimental the quote below may seem "juicy".

answer = yes.  open rebuke was not at all uncommon.  but so what?  can you not dig up something a bit juicier for this forum?   please, if we're going to be dragging people's names through the mud on a world wide medium (whilst we stay anonymous) lets at least make it justified and worth while.   

As for so what to open rebuke - I don? think so. It hardly qualified as rebuke in a Biblical sense, and was more about destroying someone? personality and life. I was at one open rebuke session where the piano player was asked why she was such a fool, and because she did not answer Scott said "Answer now, or I?l have you thrashed as well". Now there are probably plenty who will dispute this, but the whole band at that particular HV was there, so there must have been about 30 people who heard it, and obviously thought it was normal to thrash someone for playing the intros wrong... Steve and Andrew were definitely there and did not correct Scott? behaviour. This is not to drag their names through the mud, but to point out that their whole mindset is wrong and corrupted. They live their lives based on fear for a mere human being (who resembles some of the worst things about humanity) and if there is going to be a day of reckoning they will have to account for it.

As for the insults flying back and forth about the former Swedish member... I don? agree with his illiterate and badly-written posts, but the reason why those such as Scott Williams have followers is because they have found people to listen to them. If everyone would just ignore him, he would fade into oblivion eventually, just as the Swedish bozo will if no one bothers to respond to his childishness.....

thank you.  that reads a lot better than just having a go for the sake of it.  I know what you mean, I was present at the kind of event you mention above and knew at the time that dealing with people in that way was wrong and cruel.  these band members for eg, who often hauled themselves/familes/instruments/technology lots of miles to get to these meetings, were sometimes treated with terrible disrespect for no good reason. 

if you're reading this in CAI - do you still use the term 'foot folk',  and if so, do you still treat your precious people like "foot people" ???

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.Scott said "Answer now, or I?l have you thrashed as well".

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What sort of a looney tune is Scott Williams ??  The man is very immature in character.

anon Aussie

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This "Swedish" "bozo" is not a bozo. The CAI footfooks/fools is misled. This "Swedish" "bozo" is a fine person. A person who says something else is misled, evil or a bozo him/her-self. Dont persecute him anymore evil CAI.

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Dont persecute him anymore evil CAI.

Hey I am finding Nazi-hunter's posting rather entertaining and humourous. Lighten up everyone and enjoy a good laugh/giggle as there is funny side to it..

Harrassment is always a matter for the police if it gets out of hand and/or the victim cannot deal with it or is frightened.

Whilst I do not always agree with how the Swedish person writes his comments, he is obviously very affected by the CAI actions and if he truly is being harrassed, then yes, it is a matter for the police. I have quite a bit of experience of CAI pressure myself, both before and after leaving, and it is enough to drive anyone over the edge if not dealt with in some way, eg, threats of lawyers/police or something like that.

I only wish the police were able to deal with the fundamental existence of CAI, which unfortunately at the moment, with "freedom of religion" laws, they cannot.

there's probably not a religon in the world that has been described with the words you use above.  if you want to make laws that suit YOU today, just remember the people in future who inherit those laws might easily use them against YOU one day.

unless CAI start putting guns to peoples heads and frog-marching people into their church, they are doing nothing 'wrong'.   if you don't like their beliefs, then muster enough people around an alternative - but don't fall into the trap of becoming like the NAZI's. 

yea whatever.

God help us if folk with these kind of views ever get to decide what goes on the statute books again.  

we spent hundreds of years trying to get free of that crap.

Pardon me for asking, but have you ever been in CAI? Doesn't sound like it.

I'm not saying we should return to the dark ages with no freedom of religion, but like everything else in life, there are some who use the very laws which protect freedom to further their own ends, whether it be more powere or more money or whatever. It is THIS issue which legislation cannot yet cope with. You cannot have a society where there is total 100% freedom as someone will always take advantage.

Perhaps if you had any experience of the psychological damage that CAI inflicts on people, you might think differently, oh wise one, and until that time, I don't think you can comment so flippantly on the suffering of others.

I find his/her response rather strange. I did not at all suggest using the law to force CAI or anyone else to do anything - merely stated my opinion which I am free to state (oh no in the CAI you?e not, sorry I forgot mr. Anon).

CAI are the ones who wish to return to the days of old and would rather keep their members in darkness (inside the hedge) for fear of losing them to the big bad evil world... I rather think you are another vain attempt by the CAI to defend their malicious practices.

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"However, I am not sure what the first posting on this page is trying to say.

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I was "Jesus is God Believer" but as I have joined as a member I used "Survuvalist"  cos the other name was too long.  I don't disagree with your comments here.  I was not in CAI, but I was in revival Centre when CAI started in Germany, Holland etc.  so I heard some of the strange stories about Scott Williams.  I guess it must have been bad as even Lloyd Longfield told us he had to separate from Scott's extreme ideas.  I did in no way intend to minimise what they are doing wrong.  I only wanted to add my thought that witchcraft is any sort of manipulative behavioour designed to trick others into fulfilling an agenda they don't fully understand.  The traditional concept of a gnarled old hag with spells and potions represented someone trying to trick people by magical means.  What is different about CAI RF/RCI and their subtle cliches and sayings, their propaganda talks from the platform and the way the leaders put themselves up on high like an elite sect?  This is still trickery and magic.  Quite different from what the Bible says about those who want to be great among us having to be servants of all.

Can I add that I can't follow the postings on this page cos you are all "anonymous".  Can you not use a name so we can tell who is answering whome?

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I only wanted to add my thought that witchcraft is any sort of manipulative behavioour designed to trick others into fulfilling an agenda they don't fully understand.  The traditional concept of a gnarled old hag with spells and potions represented someone trying to trick people by magical means.

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Witchcraft can also include the manipulation of people through prayers. Some of the old stories on the old cult forum boards indicated that Scott may have been praying for God to curse backsliders and people who left his little cult. Many a time he has verbally "cursed" people and this is witchcraft too. Even bad name calling or publicly bad mouthing a child of God can fall into the category of witchcraft but the most common form is manipulating through prayers. Manipulating people through prayers is what I call "christianized witchcraft " because it is a form of spell casting if you take a closer look.  As an example, a woman I work with is a mormon and if you are person who uses bad language, she will go home and write your name on a board and pray about you to make you stop swearing and using foul language. This is a form of  manipulating people with prayers.    But does anyone have any stories of Scott publicly cursing anyone with his mouth or just being a witch .

Macho Man

ps I said witch not bitch ha ha LOL

Yes, Scott verbally cursed people on many an occasion, and not just the general "you?l be cursed if you don? obey" type comments which are normal in cults. He cursed a man called Billy, who then supposedly suffered greatly, but I would be inclined to believe that Billy brought the suffering on himself by his own negativity. After that people were threatened with being cursed like Billy, and it was generally accepted that if Scott were to curse you that God would withdraw from you and you would be in great danger etc etc bla bla bla.

Anyone who left was cursed as well, purely because they had left.

Reply to : Macho Man

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Reply to : SurvivalistI only wanted to add my thought that witchcraft is any sort of manipulative behavioour designed to trick others into fulfilling an agenda they don't fully understand. The traditional concept of a gnarled old hag with spells and potions represented someone trying to trick people by magical means.Witchcraft can also include the manipulation of people through prayers. Some of the old stories on the old cult forum boards indicated that Scott may have been praying for God to curse backsliders and people who left his little cult. Many a time he has verbally "cursed" people and this is witchcraft too. Even bad name calling or publicly bad mouthing a child of God can fall into the category of witchcraft but the most common form is manipulating throu

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Yes, Scott verbally cursed people on many an occasion, and not just the general "you?l be cursed if you don? obey" type comments which are normal in cults. He cursed a man called Billy, who then supposedly suffered greatly, but I would be inclined tobelieve that Billy brought the suffering on himself by his own negativity. After that people were threatened with being cursed like Billy, and it was generally accepted that if Scott were to curse you that God would withdraw from you and you would be in great danger etc etc bla bla bla.Anyone who left was cursed as well, purely because they had left.Reply to : Macho ManReply to : SurvivalistI only wanted to add my thought that witchcraft is any sort of manipulative behavioour designed to trick others into fulfilling an agenda they don't fully un

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How does Scott interpret Romans 12:14 I wonder?

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That is a pretty hard question to answer. For starters, would Scott have any notion what hermenuetics is ?? I doubt it very much !!

Does Scott prooftext ? Yep every time.  See Romans 12:14 should really be read in the context of the whole of Romans Chapter 12 and the real subject of the chapter at first glance is verse 11 " never lag in zeal and in earnest endeavor; be aglow and burning with the Spirit, serving the Lord." The whole of Romans 12 is really one big contained statement of exhortation. This is where CAI lack in doctrinal instruction because everything is read completely out of context.  The common error we all fall into is that we mold the scriptures to agree with our thoughts rather than allow the scriptures to mold our thoughts for us. If you take a closer look at the CAI teachings on their website, you can readily identify that Scott is prooftexting his own opinions when in fact the scriptures speak otherwise and in many instances contradict Scott's opinions altogether.

Cheers

Macho Man  

ps here is a copy and paste of a good clear definition of prooftexting.

Prooftexting is the practice of using decontextualised quotations from a document (often, but not always, a book of the Bible) to establish a proposition. Critics of the technique note that often the document, when read as a whole, may not in fact support the proposition.

Prooftexting is a technique associated - fairly or otherwise - with ministers and apologists affiliated with conservative Evangelical Protestant churches. One important alleged example of its use is provided by apologetic material purporting to prove that Roman Catholicism is a false religion. A good example of a "prooftext" used for this purpose is Ephesians 2.8-9, which reads, in the New Revised Standard Version translation of the Bible, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works, so that no one may boast". This text is often cited in support of the Protestant doctrine of sola fide and against Catholic teaching on salvation (which holds that for salvation to be effective, people must be willing instruments of God's grace). Within Catholicism itself, mainstream Catholics have accused sedevacantists of adopting prooftexting methods when they have sought to prove their thesis that the Church hierarchy has become apostate by quoting from Church documents such as the Code of Canon Law.

Outside of religious discourse, it has been claimed that prooftexting is widely used by Libertarians, and especially Objectivists, to demonstrate that certain historical personalities (usually the Founding Fathers of the United States) would have supported their philosophies and their religion. Aside from any questions of decontextualization, such methods of argumentation have been seen as a fallacious use of appeal to authority.

NICE POST MACHO MAN, ON A LIGHTER NOTE, IS THAT AVATAR A REAL PHOTO OF YOU?  LOL ...

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Pardon me for asking, but have you ever been in CAI? Doesn't sound like it.I'm not saying we should return to the dark ages with no freedom of religion, but like everything else in life, there are some who use the very laws which protect freedom to further their own ends, whether it be more powere or more money or whatever. It isTHIS issue which legislation cannot yet cope with. You cannot have a society where there is total 100% freedom as someone will always take advantage.Perhaps if you had any experience of the psychological damage that CAI inflicts on people, you might think differently, oh wise one, and until that time, I don't think you can comment so flippantly on the suffering of others.

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Hi,  yes I have been in CAI for many years.  I just wanted to say I agree with what you say in your message, which is different to what was said earlier.  its like the arguement people are having these days about muslims being offended by the cartoons of Muhammed, and whether we should have the right to say/print what we want, regardless of whether everything which is said or written will be popular or unoffensive.    it would be a perfect world if we managed to have freedom of speech and belief, differing views, but still never offend anyone.

I personally think that 100% freedom of speech and religon is the best that we can do in a not perfect world where, unfortunately we do not all gather around the same God and rule book.   you have to take care of what you say in freedom, and maybe (as many people here could testify to) even more care of who you listen to.  making a belief in a religon, whether the practice of it, the propogation of it, the condemnation of its opposites, a crime, is the wrong thing to do.  any laws which could potentially be used to disband or criminalise CAI could be used against just about any other group if the will to get rid of it was there one day.  I can personally think of many groups that such laws would be very useful against - but that's just my opinion, and there's another 6 billion of us or whatever.  I'm satisfied enough in the meantime with laws that protect me/my family from being physically attacked, or having my property taken from me unlawfully - or even to be a part of CAI if I so wish. 

to the person who displayed CAI brand paranoia in wondering whether I was just an agent of CAI because of what I wrote on this board, I have not been a member of CAI for years and don't have any contact with anyone from there.  

I just think this board has a lot of reactionary type statements and accusations with not much substance.  I'm sorry if you found my tone flippant, especially with our Swedish friend, but he'll just have to learn to be a big boy and take what he gets.  ie, if you want to go onto a public forum throwing mud and naming names - fine, but you need to come up with the goods - or be advised accordingly if its just hot air.   I didn't read any question on the register form, or statement that I had to be a member of an anti-CAI angry mob in order to post.

anon.

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Reply to : relievedPardon me for asking, but have you ever been in CAI? Doesn't sound like it.I'm not saying we should return to the dark ages with no freedom of religion, but like everything else in life, there are some who use the very laws which protect freedom to further their own ends, whether it be more powere or more money or whatever. It isTHIS issue which legislation cannot yet cope with. You cannot have a society where there is total 100% freedom as someone will always take advantage.Perhaps if you had any experience of the psychological damage that CAI inflicts on people, you might think differently, oh wise one, and until that time, I don't think you can comment so flippantly on the suffering of others.Hi, yes I have been in CAI for many years.

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I have been cursed by Scott publically-witchcraft. Scott has almost ruined my family, by his witchcraft, he wanted to interfere in people? lives and in other familiies. Scott has hurt me a lot, unprovoked. When there obviously now are other persons, CAI-members, or not that want to destroy my life more, probably under influence by Scott who had accused me what he did to me, witchcraft, these persons not really know what they are doing. Stop harass me you manipulated, misled and (evil?), people! Leave me alone and leave my family alone, forever!

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Hi Steerforth!

CAI have turned a family-member to me towards me. I have heard that I have come with witchcraft, that I was bad raised and that I had misused CAE? hospitality, all these things are not truth-I have not come with witchcraft, I? not bad raised I? good raised and I have not misused CAE? hospitality. But all these accusations and that I was a liar, two CAE-leaders accused me falsely in front of my family-member in CAE in my own home a very late evening. I had gone to sleep when they knocked very heavily on my door to my room in a boarding-house, I was a student then, and I regret today that I opened my door for them then. They have accused me to be "the biggest Nazi", which is not true-I have been on a meeting in the Parliament in my country as a representant of a liberal party for almost twenty years ago and I have been asked for written a text about myself in a book about liberal politicians some years ago which I did. I have also Jew relatives so I? definitively not a Nazi. CAI have interfered in my family so who is the real Nazis? Several leaders in CAE/CAI have also harassed me when I just wanted to have contact with my family-member there.