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MothandRust
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Date Posted:30/10/2004 9:39 PMCopy HTML

Remember using the gifts Merry. With the amount of times we used them there was a lot of pressure to do them. I used to recite the words to christian contemporary songs that i knew no one else listened to. I just changed the words so they didnt rhyme.Yea, and thou shalt row row row your vessel down the river, verily verily verily verily life is but a vision.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:31/10/2004 2:13 AMCopy HTML

Yeah, voice gifts seemed a bit pointless looking back, because they were just paraphrases from the bible / songs / the latest soundbites from the platform. I remember one new guy who used the gifts and whenever he did, we all felt uncomfortable. He would say things like how the young people should not be so interested in designer clothes. Sometimes you would here freudian slips. Obviously it was supposed to be the Lord talking through us... so we would use king james style god announcements (Thou art my chosen people... do not slumber etc. etc.) but sometimes people would say "Lord" every now and then as if it were a prayer addressed to God and not the other way round. That would be embarrassing. One famous Freudian slip though... and believe me someone said this... was when some elder wanted to say "crown of righteousness" but instead said "clown of righteousness". Later on in the meeting, he gave the talk and made a little joke about this gaffe. Also the young peoples leader (who could juggle and unicycle) thought about organising a Revival circus troupe who could be called 'the clowns of righteousness'. I wander whether he ever got that started.
And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price / I have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:31/10/2004 11:22 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Terror Australis

so we would use king james style god announcements

I think this might actually be a good argument AGAINST the legitimacy of the voice gifts in the RCs and RFs.  Why would God, who was around before and AFTER this archaic form of English, use this form to speak to his 'people'?  Of course it is a culture that has crept into the RCs to speak in King James English and it is entirely a human phenomenon.  People read their King James Bibles and then think God really speaks that way.  And then they hear others 'prophesy' that way and so copy it when they do. 

 "Yea verily saith the Lord..."  That was always a common phrase. 

You know, Biblically, to speak as God and prohesy falsely was punishable by death.  So to make an error might be laughable to us, but not the Israelites who would strike you dead.  If God be God then I think the RCs take interpretation and prophecy WAY too lightly.  A lot of us would be dead were we in Israel.  And to say it happens weekly, at 4.15pm after communion, is a little contrived too don't you think?

Wjen I was about 16 a girl at church had invited her high school teacher to come to a meeting.  After the meeting she asked him why he didn't get baptised and he said he didn't want to.  She asked him how he could not want to in light of all the 'proof' he had witnessed (ie the voice gifts).  He responded, "What proof?"  Later she told me about it and we both shook our heads in sadness for him, yada yada.  Years later I looked back on that situation and realised that my ciritcal thinking skills were just not as developed as her teacher's had been.  He had seen the flaws in the logic that it was God speaking or that it proved anything.  It was just a handful of people saying what they were expected to say in King James English to a group of people who refused to critically evaluate the legitimacy of it all.  And we shook our heads in sadness for the teacher.  I wonder if he thought the same for us?

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:31/10/2004 11:56 AMCopy HTML

The use of the gifts in a Revival meeting

Is it a biblical practice?

Is the decently and in orderuse of the gifts of the spirit as usedby the Revival churches a correct interpretation ofhow things wereintended to be? What does the bible mean bytwo at the most three*? It sounds like more of a recommendation than a commandment to me.

Does it anger God if the gift is used only once or four times?

If this is the Holy Spirit speaking, then who is Paul or anyone else to place a controlled restriction on it?*Interestingly, in theother instances of the use of thenumber phrase 'two or three' (Matt 18:20 two or three are gathered - John 2:6 two or three firkins) the addition of the second number calls attention to the fact that the first number is not meant to be an exact sum.

It goes like this: One stands up and speaks in an unknown tongue, another stands up and explains what the other just said. They conclude God had something to say, and communicated it this way. Logic asks then, "Why did God have to speak gibberish, then raise someone up to speak intelligently, when all the while He is supposed to be using the pastor to speak to the congregation in the first place?

"Tongues as a prayer language: We were lead to believe that God gives the gift of tongues so we can pray more effectively but where does it say He has to pray through us in an unknown tongue?

Romans 8:26 reads, "Likewise the Spirit also helps with our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Observe closely here, "cannot be uttered" Whether in English, or some supposed mysterious language given by God, it says plainly -cannot be uttered.

Tongues to enable witnessing (yes, already covered well in another thread) Jesus made it clear in Acts 1:8 that theHoly Spirit would enable followers to be witnesses for Him. We readimmediatelyin the second chapter that this is what happened. People were gathered from different regions of the Mediterranean world and spoke many different languages. Yet afterwards, they heard them speak in their own native language! Galileans speaking miraculously as Parathions, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamian, Cretes, Arabians, Egyptians, ... the wonderful works of God. (Acts 2:8-11)

The original intent of the language gift was tomaximize the efficiency of transmitting the Gospel message.

Context means everything when defining a concept, and the context of the phenomena of 'unknown tongues' here is plainly to communicate the Gospel in a simple, communicative, understandable language to the listeners that surrounded them. Acts 2:6 tells us that they heard them speak in their own language. They didn't hear words they couldn't understand, but benefited by hearingthe gospelin their own dialect.

Tongues of angels and menI've mention recently that the term angels can simply refer to anyone sending a message as the word 'angel' means messenger, but let's unpack it a bit further."Though I speak with the tongues of men or angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."Should we read a prayer language into this?Is thisthe subject Paulwas emphasizing? No, he's saying how important is is to be lead by love no matter how blessed with gifts one is. Without love it's meaningless. He is exaggerating to prove a point. Isn't that obvious?

He does it again in Galatians 1:8,"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."In other words he's saying: "Sheesh, I don't care if an angel drops down from heaven, don't listen to them if it isn't what I've toldyou".

It's a hypothetical exaggeration here, to make it obvious to the reader, hardly a place to base a doctrine for a prayer language!

Some then quote1 Cor 14but the entire emphasis of that chapter is in the gift of prophecy where all can be edified by understanding clearly what the speaker or the person praying publicly is saying!Thought... Why does a prophesy sound exactly like an interpretation?

In verse one he asks us to desire the gifts but most importantly - prophesy. The Greek meaning of prophesy is to both foretell and forthtell, or to preach understandably. The word ispropheuoand means to declare truthwhether through prediction or not. In verse 5 Paul wishes that they all spoke with tongues. Why? They would be more useful if they all had the ability to cross language barriers. But he prefers that they prophesy unless there is an interpreter. Now this leads to the next question...It's all right to speak in tongues if there is an interpretation!

First of all, that's not theemphasis here, secondly, what kind of language was being interpreted?

Let's use our imagination here for a sec. Suppose you've been given a 'language' gift from the Lord and you use it in the meeting. Only one problem, no one understands what you just prayed including you! (verse 14) My spirit (i.e. my inward sincerity) was there, but who knows what I said! Over and over again Paul places the emphasis on communicating that all may understand in this chapter. He even uses musical instruments as an analogy.

In verses 27 and 28 Paul states that speaking in tongues is permissible if we have two, and at the most three speak in this fashion. Then, and only then, if one interprets. Let's use our imagination again, eh? The assembly has gathered, and the pastor moves to the pulpit and lo and behold, he's carrying the original Hebrew text! Someone says afterward: "Wow! We heard a message from Hebrew! He sure is gifted having the ability to read the original Hebrew! We sure are blessed, I enjoyed hearing the Hebrew read today in our meeting." The other would respond: "Yeah, but I wonder what he said?" Sound far-fetched? The Roman Catholics have read sermons in Latin for years! Paul is telling them, if you do use a different language, explain it that all understand.

Tongues was explained at pentecostas a gift given to clearly communicate the Gospel in a language that all could understand.

It's the same Greek word "glossa" throughout the New Testament and yes, even in 1 Corinthians where Paul found the most problems. Being the same Greek word, why should anyonechange the meaning to the way it is being practiced by Revival and their ilk?

Where do they getoff implying thatall who don't practice tongues are on their way to hell?Where do they get the revelation to say that one church is better than the other because one practices tongues and the other doesn't?Not from the bible.and some more...A little bit of logic unravels the whole 'gifts' ritual very quickly. ie. The two or three tongue messages TO the Lord are interpreted as messages FROM the Lord.

Theinterpretationsare completely similar to the two or threeprophesiesthat come afterward... and are not prophetic at all.Many Revivalists claim the miracle of the gifts because the one they were about to blurt out had a similar message to the one that got in first. This isn't surprising considering everyone in the community has been listening to the same talks, and talking in the same circles... not to mention the mathematical coincidence effect that there are only so many topics commonly used and that every now and again someone is going to beat you to the punch with a similar message.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Merry Menagerie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:01/11/2004 9:16 AMCopy HTML

A lot of times I found the "operation of the spiritual gifts" in meetings to be weird, disturbing or unintentionally hilarious. anyone care to share their more memorable spiritual gift experiences?One of my faves is young guy giving a prophecy which basically quoted almost word-for-word that "Footprints in the Sand" piece... you know the one, "a man had a dream he was walking along a beach with the Lord" etc etcBTW this isn't meant to start a debate on the whole concept of the spiritual gifts as they are operated in RC groups, it's more of a lighthearted thing. With maybe a dash of healthy disrespect thrown in[& no offence intended!]

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:01/11/2004 9:47 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Biggus Dikkus]%*'`@

I look back at the incident now and roar but I swear at the time nobody was game to let out a peep - Darcy would have taken you out back and had you stoned.

There was certainly a great sound of rushing wind but I'm glad there were no tongues of flame otherwise it would have taken out the building and half the street.

Poor dude - cutting the cheese in church must be really embarrassing. Not sure if it was a hair trigger or if he was trying to sneak out a silent one during the gifts...guess I'll never know...

Reminds me of another incident - did any of you folks ever see someone get ejected? One fellow who had left once and was recently allowed back stood up during a talk and called the pastor a liar. Wouldn't shut up, eventually a few heavies came and had to pick him up by the arms and legs and one-two-three him out onto the street.

Brisbane...we sure had our fair share of loons

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:02/11/2004 8:31 AMCopy HTML

I know I'm a bit late in replying to this topic but I couldn't resist! There was a guy in my old Revival who used to dribble the most ridiculous things when giving his "interpretation". God, the person he was interpreting must have been on something. I remember one where he was saying how much he loved Nirvana and how he  lined up for hours to get his tickets for one of their concerts  and at the end of it he somehow managed to tie it in by giving it some spiritual analogy. Please explain! Obviously the interpretations are hardly "divinely inspired"!

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price / I have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:02/11/2004 10:21 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Biggus Dikkus]%*'`@

Hi Merry do you remember much about the incident? It's a good chance it was the same one I saw, it would have been back in 1986-87. Peter Barnes was giving a talk and this fellow stood up and yelled "You're a liar!" Barney asked him to sit down a few times but this guy persisted in his stand up argument, so he asked for a few of the bouncer types to remove him. They literally had to lift him up by his arms and legs and carry him out. His wife was also there and she started saying "Are you like Jesus!? Is this what Jesus would do!?" She wasn't carried out though, she left with her husband.

The gent had previously left church and had only just started coming back, but obviously was still a bit sensitive over some issues. A friend I was sitting next to commented "Well that woke me up"

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:02/11/2004 8:31 PMCopy HTML

It is actually illegal to to interupt a religious service, so the RCs are well within their legal rights to escort people from the building.  As far as using force, I am fairly sure that is only ok for people in either the police force or those with some sort of security licence.  I think they can report someone to the police but to use force to throw them out may, in fact, be illegal.  I am not sure on that point though.

In the Melbourne assembly, people used to get thrown out often.  By often I mean 3 or 4 ocassions a year.  People who would go off during the voice gifts, raise thier hands and refuse to stop and then the deacons would spring into action like SAS officers.  Even ex-members who were spotted in the church would be jumped on.  I am not sure how legal this is considering there is a sign outside most Revival Centres which says something along the lines of "ALL WELCOME".  Bloody hypocrites!!!

In the early 1990s, well before I set up the internet site and became infamous among them, my friend and I were walking past the Forum in Melbourne.  We chuckled to ourselves as we were both ex-members.  An unsuspecting Revivalist approached us with a coupon in his hand for a 'free coffee'.  Of course this was Melbourne's common way of tricking people into coming back to the Forum and getting 'witnessed to'.  We looked at each other, smiled and went on in.  Once inside, we took them up on their offer of a tour of the Forum before having a coffee.  We ran into a few people we knew who were courteous (they have ALL left or been kicked out by now BTW). 

 When we returned to the coffee area we sat down and started in on our coffees.  It turned out that one of the people we had met had reported our presence to the overisght in charge of the witnessing teams, a guy named Ian Pask (Ian was known in our day as a hard arsed bastard but had since become a pastor after we left.  God help them).  Ian then approached my friend and asked his name.  My friend's father had been a high profile house leader in the Melbourne assembly and his family left with a large group who started their own church for a while before joining the AOG.  In short, Ian Pask knew who my friend's Dad was.  Anyway, Ian asked my friend his name.  My friend knew where this was going and relied with his first name only.  Ian then said, "No, what's your name?"  My friend replied again with his first name only.  Then Ian, with a firm voice said, "What's your LAST name?"  My friend told him and then Ian told us to leave.  I piped up by this stage and said, "We were invited here for a coffee and now you're asking us to leave?"  Ian then agreed to let us stay for our coffee but ordered our Revivalist 'host' to remove himself from our presence.  So we sat there alone and drank our coffee.  By this stage it had become an point for us to sit there and drink our coffee despite them.  We didn't want to leave on their terms.  We left on ours.

We hadn't tried to argue with them, belittle them, or anyting like that.  In fact, we were just happy to see some old faces and say hello.  We were also curious to see the Forum again where we had wasted many a Sunday.  Really, we were just curious.  But the way they treated us was just shameful.  And as I said, the old faces that we saw have ALL left the RCs completely now anyway.  So much for 'ALL WELCOME' huh?

MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:02/11/2004 8:34 PMCopy HTML

1 Corinthians 12:27:

"...Now you are Christ's body, and each of you is a member of it. (28) And God has placed in the church FIRST apostles, SECOND prophets, THIRD teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues..."

In the above passage, we note Paul likening the Christian Church to a human body, with EACH and EVERY individual fulfilling a *vital* function of the body. But did you happen to notice that, in the context of the church at Corinth, he very early identified THREE principle leadership *OFFICES* (NOT gifts), and that he *ranked* them? FIRST apostles, SECOND *prophets*, THIRD teachers (do you wonder why he *didn't* include pastors?). Again, these are gifted *PEOPLE*, fulfilling specific *APPOINTMENTS* within the Church. Notice also, the *Church* (i.e. individual Christians who together form the Body of Christ) is assumed as a 'given'. But God *placed into* this 'given'at Corinth, these THREE specific *OFFICES*.

What follows the THREE groups of gifted PEOPLE is an abbreviated list of spiritual GIFTS (and notice the specific gifts mentioned).

This is 'Point One' to bear in mind. Next,

1 Corinthians 14:27

"...If SOMEONE speaks in a tongue, it should be two, or at the most three, one after the other, and SOMEONE must interpret."

Did you happen to notice that Paul said *if* 'SOMEONE'? First, he doesn't say *when*, but *if*. Second, Paul limits the exercise of the gift of tongues by the 'SOMEONEs' to TWO or THREE, and that either the same 'SOMEONE', or 'SOMEONE' else MUST interpret each tongue by course.

But notice, particularly, this:

"...(14:29) Two or three PROPHETS should speak and the OTHERS should evaluate what is said."

At this point, Paul *didn't* say two or three 'SOMEONEs'. He specifiaclly referred to PROPHETS, to those who ranked SECOND in the *heirarchy* of OFFICES within the church. But he also laid the emphasis for *evaluating* their messages on the 'OTHERS', on the 'WHOMSOEVER'.

But wait, there's more.

1 Corinthians 14:30

"...And if SOMEONE sitting down receives a revelation, the person who is speaking should conclude. (14:31) For you can ALL prophesy one after another, so ALL can learn and be encouraged."

The shift has occurred from PROPHETS back to the 'SOMEONEs'. Very interesting indeed. At Corinth, it appears that there were two destructive groups vying for supremecy in the church: the 'tongues-speakers', and the 'duelling-prophets'. Both groups believed that their own gift and/or appointment was the MOST important, the most spiritual, consequently, those believers who didn't share in *either* were marginalised and treated as irrelevant. Paul corrected the 'tongues-speakers' at length, but he also deflated the egos of the PROPHETS, by identifying that *other* Christians within the church, whilst not holding the OFFICE of PROPHET, could indeed prophesy as God enabled them. But (and 'buts' are always important), it was the PROPHETS *alone* who were limited to three prophetic messages at most. And the PROPHETS were told, rather politely given the circumstances, to 'shut-up' if God chose to use a 'SOMEONE' to bring a word of encouragement, teaching, exhortation or similar should they be 'waffling-on'.

Jake, understanding the situational CONTEXT that led to Paul applying his restrictions, and which sparked his comments in the first place, is absolutely *vital* to grasping a BIBLICAL theology on this issue.


One of the problems of the KJV as a version, is that meaning is often *lost* in the 'translation', sad I know but true nonetheless.

In 1 Corinthian 14:5, Paul wistfully expresses a sincere *wish* that he held: he really *did* wish that *all* the Corinthians enjoyed the benefit that comes from possessing the gift of tongues, something he himself enjoyed, and a claim which would have 'floored' the sectarian and carnal Corinthian 'glossalalics'. Paul fully accepted that the gift of tongues imparted a spiritual benefit to the person who was provided with this gift.

However...

(1) it's important to remember that he was thinking wistfully, and expressing a *wish*. Paul fully understood that God *doesn't* work that way, and that He chooses to give different gifts to different parts of the Body to ensure 'balance', and then for the *common* good (and not necessarily an individual's 'good'). Paul accepted that God was wiser than he, and knew what he was doing ;o)

(2) The KJV mistranslates the underlying grammatical structure of the verse by almost implying that Paul expressed a *command*: that he somehow suggested that *all* the Corinthians *should* have the gift of tongues. But irrespective of what your 1611AD English version might or might not imply, the 54AD Greek text which underpins it is crystal clear.

(3) As a follow-on from my point #1 above, Paul went further, to explain that the 'better' gifts were those which built up the *community*, rather than the *individual*. It was for this reason that he compared the value of tongues to prophecy, for example.

How are you going 'digesting' the points that I raised in my previous post? While you continue to 'chew' them over, take the time to also have a look at verse 28, where Paul states "...*if* there is no interpreter present, he [i.e. the tongues-speaker] should keep silent." Your fellowship's theology clearly teaches that there will *always* be an 'interpreter' present. Paul, however, apparently doesn't think so.

Quoted from Ian (via Brisbane Revival Fellowship Forum)

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:03/11/2004 8:57 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Biggus Dikkus]%*'`@

>>Yes I think it may have been the same one because I remember P- Peter speaking and the guy's name was Michael and he had fornicated and left with his then wife, got married and just started coming back. 

Yep same one - I didn't actually know him or his history but I remember the character assasinations started that night at supper amongst the nest of vipers. Also have to admit the revival dirt was pretty fascinating because its such an insular group and when somebody went postal the favourite sport was to tsk and tut tut even though you weren't supposed to.

Great post Hoju - would make a good coffee commercial ! To top it off you could have tried to bum a smoke off someone   

Legally I don't think they can throw people out they can only call the police and have them arrested. You have the right to defend yourself if they get violent but am pretty sure you can't man-handle them even if they are vocal.  He could have sued - what if he had back problems or something?

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:04/11/2004 5:57 PMCopy HTML

Of course we used to have the copper (detective in fact) in Melbourne who was expert at grabbing unwanteds by the trousers above the arse crack and another hand by the scruff of the neck and 'assisting' them out the door.  Bloody hilarious to watch!

He ended up cheating on his wife and had to leave in disgrace....that part was sad because he really hurt his lady...stupid bastard.  Also a mate of Pasky's.......

Pray for Chris Grant....we need him back! ....it worked! he's back and better than ever....try Rodney Eade for next season!
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:05/12/2004 9:06 AMCopy HTML

Yes. I remember the incident well. The guy thrown out was in my house meeting.  His younger brother later slugged the senior pastor in the mouth in his own office. Bit rude! Oh to be back amonst the brethren where we were all so blissfully happy! I just could imagine Jesus on the mount getting Peter and Judas the nod to drag off the hecklers
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:10/12/2004 6:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Biggus Dikkus [Anonymous]
You know, farting in RCI is nothing new. I remember standing through the gifts behind a family from Ipswich. The father let one rip, then the kids started and mum joined in. This was Sunday arvo meeting (very serious stuff) and we could not believe what we were hearing. Worst part was, the people behind us started poking us in the back coz they thought WE were doing the farting. Eventually, hubby and I, and the guy behind us all went outside coz we were about to kill ourselves laughing. At least it broke the interminable boredom of the meeting.
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:15/12/2004 2:53 PMCopy HTML

For others who haven't had the pleasure of visiting the sacred site of the RCI in Brisbane, the floor was sloped down from the entrance to the stage (it was an old picture theatre). I used to pity the poor buggers that sat near the stage as the farting generally emulated from the middle of the hall and would slither down toward the stage area clinging to the floor and accumulating about where the pastors throne was situated.

There were a number of occassions where the stench would quite literally cause your eyes to water. Especially in summer where the biomass would have been most volatile. (After all those greasy chips from the cockroach infested shop next door.)

However, my theory was, that most of the offending noises were actually caused by snoring. The funniest thing I remember was one church member who fell fast asleep during one of PD's rivetting talks. This poor guy eventually fell forward out of his seat and literally rolled headlong into the platform waking most of the first three rows with the crash. Even one of the officers on stage with PD came to with a start.

 

 

 

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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:15/12/2004 3:06 PMCopy HTML

My apologies Merry Menagerie. Didn't see your reply before lodging my last contribution.

No need to freak out. Being in the assembly for more than 17 years, I was in heaps of housemeetings with just about most folk from the South East at one time or another. Michael was in my housemeeting before he left the first time. Is this the same time as you?

 

exReadBiblist
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:14/01/2005 10:51 PMCopy HTML

Revival Centres 1991 Assembly guidelines (and yes they are still in use):

(1) no private gatherings, seekers meetings, sporting groups or evangelical outreaches are to be held without the pastors prior knowledge or consent.

(2) No literatture, tapes, books, videos or records whatsoever to bebrought into an assembly or handed out to others unless approved by the pastor as being suitably and scripturualy correct.

(7) It is expected that all members will attend the mid-week meeting and both Sunday meetings.

(28) Messages in tongues, interpretation and prophesy should be within the church. No member should operate such gifts except in an authorised supervised meeting. A fourth message in tongues or prophesy must NOT be given.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:17/01/2005 7:09 PMCopy HTML

Just wanted to say that this thread had me roflmao. On a day when dredging thru all this painful crap was difficult, I enjoyed the laugh. Thanks!
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:25/04/2005 9:25 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : HeatandServe



Revival Centres 1991 Assembly guidelines (and yes they are still in use)1) no private gatherings, seekers meetings, sporting groups or evangelical outreaches are to be held without thepastors prior knowledge or consent.(2) No literatture, tapes, books, videos or records whatsoever to bebrought into an assembly or handed out toothers unlessapproved by the pastor as being suitably and scripturualy correct.(7) It is expected thatallmembers will attend the mid-week meeting and both Sunday meetings.(28) Messages in tongues, interpretation and prophesy should be within the church. No member should operate such gifts except in anauthorisedsupervisedmeeting. A fourth message in tongues or prophesy mu




And??? What's the problem.
Would you change the word of God all 15 years.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you
Matthew 24, Luke 21
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:26/04/2005 1:28 PMCopy HTML

Repetitive prayer

I remember that the Revival Centres used to quote Matthew 6:7 as evidence against mainline churches' use of The Lord's Prayer: But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.(Matt 6:7)

Their argument was that the mainline churches sayThe Lord's Prayer repetitively and without conviction and thus show themselves to be in error.

But, those who say the Lord's prayer usually say it once a service and who is to know what level of conviction it is said with from individual to individual? That works out to be over 60 words including the repeated words such asThy, etc..However, has anyone stopped to think that most members of the Revival Centres say onlyHallelujah,praise the Lordandamenover and over again in a service. And they will say this before and after a platform led prayer, after the wafer and again after the wine, in between the voice gifts, etc. Most of the time this is purely mindless (but in fairness, who can measure the conviction of this?) and is definitely far from spontaneous.

This seems to be far more of a repetition and vain use of many words that any mainline church, including their arch nemeses, the Catholics.Another case of the Revival Centres pointing out the specks in others' eyes while doing nothing about the planks in their own. Are you saying you agree with the guidelines or being sarcastic?
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:28/04/2005 9:30 AMCopy HTML

ROFL!!!  It's sad, but I actually think it's funny how people can still believe that the word of a head pastor is the word of God. 

It's sad because I used to be one of them! 

Jane
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:10/09/2010 5:46 AMCopy HTML

This conversation has been continued HERE
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:The 2 to 3 Spiritual Gifts: Revival 'voice' gifts

Date Posted:25/11/2010 4:24 AMCopy HTML

 I remember a few guys (very few) who really seemed to be used for the gift of prophecy. It had a very persuading logic and thereby authority. It really seemed to flow from revealed knowledge or so. There was never a pause, thinking break or anything unscriptural in it no matter what the length. But the great majority seemed to be speaking from their heads.
RCI prophesies
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