Sabrina,

Hmph. Was this the same period of time that God deigned to confirm to you that speaking in 'tongues' was the evidence of being baptised in the Spirit as well?

A brief lesson in hermeneutics for you to reflect upon: a passage of Scripture can't mean now, what it didn't mean then. Or to put this a slightly different way, Islam wasn't to exist until roughly 450 years after John penned his Revelation. So do you reckon the Christians to whom he originally wrote the thing would've come up with the same conclusion as you, their relying on the Holy Spirit for 'inspiration'/confirmation and all?

Remember, John's Revelation is a fairly standard example of 2nd Temple Period apocalyptic. Consequently, it must be interpreted according to the norms of the genre. And the last time that I checked, arbitrary picking-and-choosing of events to fit a preferred outcome wasn't a particularly kosher practice. 

Blessings,

Ian

Well hello, Sabrina.

For once you're right. I have absolutely NO interest in 'engaging' with you.

Well, perhaps more than just the 'once' dearie    But to tackle the point directly: of course you have no interest in engaging with me! As you've successfully demonstrated here over a very long period, you're (1) far happier believing in, and further propagating, the doctrinal fairy-stories and 'spin' of your GRC past than you are of confronting the theological realities of the present and the future. And, (2) that you clearly believe yourself above being corrected by anyone, but especially by me. Heaven forbid that I should dare to challenge your theological acumen in the hope that you'd eventually wake up to reality!

As others have said here of you, in times past: "...you're not a part of the solution to Revivalism, Sabs; you're just a part of the ongoing problem." I think you should honestly reflect on the implications of this statement. So ditch the Revivalist penchant for "conspiracy theories", girlie, and try to develop a biblical epistemology and world-view.

Blessings,

Ian

Good morning, Sabrina.

Why don't you go to a Muslim country and try to live there as a Christian?

Well now, have you ever lived in a Muslim country yourself? And furthermore, just how many Muslims do you know personally, and with whom you regularly associate?

Speaking for myself, I have lived as a Christian in Muslim countries for extended periods. I personally am well acquainted (and have and do work) with Indonesian Muslims, Malaysian Muslims, Kuwaiti Muslims, Saudi Muslims and Afghani Muslims. My practical experience of them seems to be markedly different to your theoretical "understanding". Consequently, it may surprise you to discover that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not Jihadists (about whom I do have a bit of a idea), and so they have absolutely no personal desire to live under Shari'a Law themselves, never mind the imposing of the same upon others.

But please, don't feel compelled to let the facts stand in the way of a good (and typically Revival-esque) conspiracy theory! Let me restate: Islam dies not represent the "locusts" of John's Revelation.

Blessings,

Ian

yes, it's true many muslims have no desire to kill non muslims,and no doubt are peaceful people with no murderous intentions. But as with every religion or belief system, we shouldn't judge it by how various people practice it, but by what the religion actually teaches, because many people can be "christian", and be judged as "christian" by non christians,but not be actually following the teachings of Jesus.
Likewise in Islam,people can think of themselves as muslims, and be considered muslims by outsiders, but not really be practicing what their religion teaches.
The religon of Islam is the Koran, and if you want to know what Muslims believe or SHOULD believe, you need to read the Koran. Have you actually read the Koran? Do you know what it actually teaches yourself?
 I went to the local Islamic information centre here, and asked them what version of the Koran they recommend as the best for non Arabic readers and they recommended the English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, so I bought it and have read it, along with commentaries by Muslim apologists explaining the texts.
 One of the last "revelations" given by Muhamed before he died is recorded in chapter 9 verse 29;
" Fight those who believe not in Allah (non muslims) nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle (Muhamed), nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), even if they are of the People of the Book, (Jews and Christians),until they pay the Jizyah (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued".
  Do you understand what Allah is telling all his followers to do here?
Muslims are to FIGHT non muslims,all non muslims, whether jewish, Christian, atheist, agnostic or whatever, until the non muslims have surrendered to Muslim rule.
This fighting against non muslims can be violent and non violent. It is both. But the point is that for all Muslims, that verse is the unquestioned word from God, that they are ALL required to believe and practice.
So the teaching of Islam, of the Koran, is that Muslims should be ruling over us non Muslims, and that WE should surrender to them and "submit". Submit to their rule over us.
If a muslim is not "fighting" to make this happen in the society he is in, if he is not striving and doing all he can to bring non muslims into "submission", then he is not practicing what his religion teaches, what his Koran says.
    I.e, he is not a practicing muslim.
So before you say that allowing millions of Muslims into our society is no threat to us, carefully consider what the verse I've quoted is saying, and many more in the Koran.
Based on this verse and others, Muslims believe that they should be in charge of our society, that they should be ruling over us, and that we should submit to their rule.
That's what Allah said through Muhamed, which is written in the Koran, and that is what ALL MUSLIMS ARE REQUIRED TO TRY TO BRING TO PASS, and if a Muslim is not doing all he can to make it happen, he's not practicing his religion.
 If you have 2 million,5 million, or 6 million immigrants in your society who believe that God wants them to rule over you, and that God wants you to submit to them, there might just be a problem.
European nations are finding that out right now.
If you have lots and lots of people living in your society that believe that your culture and society is degenerate, immoral and rotten, and that THEY should take it over and bring in their superior, divine laws, you might just eventually have a problem with those people as their numbers increase and multiply.
 Islam means "submission". That means WE either submit to their God OR submit to their rule over us.
People who say Islam is no threat to our freedom and democracy ought to read the Koran.
Read it, study it, and find out what it really says.

Hello, Brett.

Nice to hear from you again.

To begin with, 'yes', I do have a copy of the Qur'an translated into English, and, 'yes', I have studied it. Furthermore I have Muslim friends (both secular and religious) who have been kind enough to explain for me their understanding of it.

I went to the local Islamic information centre here, and asked them what version of the Koran they recommend as the best for non Arabic readers and they recommended the English translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, so I bought it and have read it, along with commentaries by Muslim apologists explaining the texts.

That's very interesting. You see, to the Muslim the Qur'an is only the Qur'an in Arabic; in translation it ceases to be authoritative, and becomes, at best, little more than a commentary. It is for this reason that all Muslims, irrespective of nationality or ethnicity, are required to learn and study Arabic. However, the point remains that the vast majority of Muslims are moderate in their beliefs and behaviour, have no desire for world-wide Jihad, and have no desire to live under Shari'a Law or to impose it upon others.

Ultimately it remains the extremists who pose the real threat. Just as the Revivalists that one may encounter in the GRC or the CAI are not representative of authentic Christianity, neither are Al Quaeda or JI representative of authentic Islam. But all of this is actually tangential to the main point in this thread: your wife has been promoting nonsense as if it were biblical prophecy, and ignorance as if it were knowledge. So in this respect, she has been providing a reasonable demonstrating of the sort of extremism that we should all sit up and take notice of.

Blessings,

Ian