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Biblianut
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Date Posted:22/02/2011 8:21 AMCopy HTML

We have all heard stories of people experiencing some sort of phenomena in regards to a “spiritual” event that happened in their life one time or another that cannot be easily explained away.

 

I for one had never believed in ‘ghosts’, ‘spirits’ or the like, or at the very least didn’t want to know, as it really scared the c**p  out of me. In my early childhood I suffered terrible nightmares as a result.

 

After first coming to Revival I couldn’t help but to face up to the fact that something of this nature did/does exist.

 

One also hears of the different experiences or feelings that people have when supposedly receiving the Holy Spirit or a baptism in the HS, or seeing the light etc. I know this experience can be and is most convincing and by it many are deceived.

 

However my own experience at the time I got down on my knees to “seek for the HS” there was suddenly quite a tangible feeling of ‘warmth’ flowing through the whole of my body, a shaking and a whelming up within, that I wanted to speak out. Hard to explain but it was as if somebody had suddenly turned on a very hot heater in the room, which of course wasn’t the case.  

At this point because of the nature of the event, something that had never happened before in my life, or has happened since, took me totally by surprise, I rose up and couldn’t help but start laughing to myself.

 

I didn’t “speak in tongues” as I held back, and am convinced even to this day, I would have had I let it go even though I didn’t have an understanding of that subject at the time. Also I don’t believe it could have been emotion, excitement or the like, though again if that be the case it certainly was something I’d never encountered before. “Tongues” was never convincing and always was a stumbling block to me, but that can be another matter for discussion sometime.

 

A few events have taken place in some of my kid’s lives over the years.

 

1. One of my sons was staying overnight with a friend in an old house.  It wasn’t all that late at night, when my son saw what seemed to be a woman standing there in the room next to him. He thought he was imagining things until his friend entered the same room and said “what the hell…” and both observed the image slowly fade from view in front of their eyes. Both had seen the “woman” at the same time. What for and why it happened has never be explained, it just happened.

 

 

2. The moment before my former wife had past away (just recently) the same son, who was alone by her side, was praying that God would take away the pain and give his mother rest. As he was praying he felt something pass through him and seemed to move in her direction. It was something that he couldn’t put into words but knew it had taken place there and then. He was quite overcome by the experience as it seemed so real to him. Immediately after, his sister then entered the room and my son went outside. Two minutes later his sister came out and told him mum had passed away.

 

I have since spoken to different members of staff at that hospital about this and some claim they have witnessed, and experienced, a lot of “spiritual movement”, particularly around the palliative care area.

 

3. Another son and a daughter recently attended a session with a so-called clairvoyant.   

This follows the funeral of my former wife and my words of comfort that their believing mother is at rest with the Lord etc. Unfortunately, to my dismay, they had taken this path to visit this clairvoyant. I won’t go into detail except to say that the woman convinced them that their mother was with them and she was doing fine.

 

I could go on but enough said to make the point of this topic.

 

What does the bible say about all this?

 

The lectures I have been listening to and what I have read from scripture seems to support, that there is a “consciousness” after death.

But many questions can arise; whether it is good or deceiving spirits, spirits of departed love ones, angels, demons or the HS himself (though I have my own views about that one) that is “manifesting” somehow?

Can/do demons possess people, and/or Christians today, Is it all a part of fallen man’s nature, etc. or is it not the case at all?

 

Your views and similar experiences thanks.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 1:45 AMCopy HTML

mmm, 3 views, no responses. Will have to post something more ridiculous to get a reaction. Stay tuned.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 3:03 AMCopy HTML

 Maybe your topic heading was too confronting.

I have had 4 experiences during my life that I believe to this day were loved ones who have died and wanted to reassure me that they were with me still.

The events gave me great comfort and peace of mind.

I also at one stage went to a Tarot card reader who predicted with great accuracy ( no waffle or things that could be interpreted in varying ways) the things that would happen over my life in the following years.

I also went to one who was a complete goose.

Christianity and demons seem to go together in Gothic Cathedrals. It is quite unnerving when you look around you, I don't know of any in Australia, but Europe is awash with them.

There is also a pervading sense of 'evil' in some of these places as well. 

The Christian religion (and of course other religions) has gone through stages of brutality, murder, horrendous torture and persecutions, all in the name of God since it was first formed.

Catholicism embraces the pagan rituals of many different societies to make it more inviting to the masses (people), some of the rituals that are accepted are enough to make your blood run cold.

In answer to your last questions: yes, yes, I don't know and I don't know.

Cheers,

Glad
"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 6:39 AMCopy HTML

I've had a few experiences in my life.  On one occasional I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening.  Won't go on about it, as its a pretty personal experience.

People seem to have all sorts of strange and mystical experiences.  Some people I know are totally OTT about contact with people who have died.  I find most of it rather silly.  What I do notice is how many people are quite unhealthily obsessed with such things.  Seems to me they are far too attached to things & people they would do better to let go.  So they make a whole belief system about the souls of those who have died.  Far too many people are concerned with what happens after death.  The death notices are full of wishful thinking.


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 10:30 AMCopy HTML

Dog,

Your not wrong, this is what I am trying to point out to the family. There needs to be a greater perspective from the biblical world view, I think.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 12:49 PMCopy HTML

"I've had a few experiences in my life.  On one occasional I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening.  Won't go on about it, as its a pretty personal experience."

I say this gently and not wishing to offend your experience but Andrew Strom at http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/category/tv-videos/  speaks on this false holy spirit experience. This was brought in by Rodney Howard Brown who received it from Claudio Freidzen in South Africa. Howard Brown then passed the awakening onto Randy Clark who was then invited by John and Carol Arnott ;who were the Pastors of the Vineyard Toronto Airport christian fellowship to speak on this. They then received this awakening (hence it was called the Toronto blessing as it spread from this area) in 1994. This has spread like wild fire around the world and is big in part in the UK, Also Christian City Church C3 in Melbourne and Sydney (Phil Pringle) brought this into Australia in the mid 90s, though now this is disguised as being trained in the Prophetic,  This has spawned such sickening fools as Todd Bentley among others including the Drunkenness movement Holy Ghost bartenders etc etc etc they are all part of the heresy that surrounds the American prophetic movement.

Andrew was a major player in warning people about this deception, watch the videos on this site its an eye opener, he has also written a book on the same subject.  For what its worth if any one is interested Andrew Strom is in Melbourne at the moment and will be speaking Friday night at:

I could go on and on and on about this but time limits me and Andrew speaks volumes on this subject if it interests you.

Im_Out

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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 1:48 PMCopy HTML

I'm_Out,

Thanks.  I can see that you are passing on a concern you have about such things.  But nah, I'm not really interested in getting into a lot of Christian fear mongering about nasty spirits etc.

I've been around a bit.  The experience that I had about 11 years ago was totally out-of-the-blue!  It occurred around the time I was leaving the RF, and was one of the most wonderful and amazing experiences of my life.  I had no idea what it was at the time, but just bathed in it for maybe around 20 minutes.  Only some weeks later was I talking to a learned man for whom I have a lot of respect.  He immediately identified what had happened, and casually advised me to just accept and let the experience go, which is what I have done.

It was a SPONTANEOUS experience, and certainly NOT something I sought to invoke.  Neither would I seek to do so, or condone others doing so.  I've since read a fair bit about it.  There are as many reports of fantastic, wonderful and positive experiences as there are terrible and negative ones.  I can see the danger in people seeking to invoke such experiences, especially when they have a 'joy-ride' mentality.  Just as some people use psychedelic drugs to trip out.  They can go to heaven or hell, depending on whats going on in their psyche. 

Peace!

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 4:03 PMCopy HTML

I'm_Out,

Before, I didn't bother looking at the link you posted.  But just now, I thought I'd have a gander, out of curiosity...

Mate, all that crap shown in the video has NO semblance whatsoever with the experience I mentioned.  It is a bastardisation of the word to suggest any of that crazy carrying on has anything in common with what happened to me.  I was alone, and had a spontaneous experience which no description could convey.  But it was beautiful and very positive.  I was fully lucid and sane.  Although it was overwhelming and I didn't know what it was, it was a very calm and peaceful experience, very easy to just let happen.  There were no after effects, other than a great sense of affirmation and that everything was all 'ok'.  It was very settling and gave me much peace in an uncertain time of my life.

That guy Strom goes on about discerning of all that stuff going on in churches.... cripes, it doesn't take much to realise that all that stuff is just plain loopy!  But what I experienced was something very personal, and there's little point in making anything more of it.  Ralph asked about stuff that we have experienced so I mentioned it.  Again, it has absolutely nothing to do with the madness that was demonstrated in that video.

Peace!


Dog.


"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:24/02/2011 7:24 PMCopy HTML

Hi Dog, from what you say now that really doesn't sound like Kundalini at all,  (you can see the difference now).  after reading Andrews book, Kundalini or the Toronto Blessing as it is known as, just doesn't leave you that easily (that's why I put this up because your brief description and what I have researched and learnt from Strom didn't match up)  the deception can really destroy peoples lives,  Folk have had to really come to true repentance and get there heads on the ground in prayer for the lord to get it out of them,  for being so stupid in thinking that what was being presented came out of him and scripture. No discernment what so ever.  Did you see the Holy Ghost bartender in that and the "smoking the baby Jesus rubbish ? while holding is fingers and pretending to smoke a baby Jesus joint, it is totally beyond belief. There are some sick sick nuts out there, and whats worse is that our  young people are being seduced by these lying spirits and (being polite here) idiots pushing it and its not just in America, as I said this has really taken hold in England as well. It seems to have died down over here now. If you want to see extreme look up Todd Bentley on Youtube, hes one of the worst.
Glad to have made things clearer for you :)

Im_out
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 12:58 AMCopy HTML

I'm_Out,

Frankly, I'd say the reverse is true.  What this Strom fella is describing does not sound like Kundalini at all.  He may be right in telling people all the nonsense that is going on in some 'churches' is wrong, but how on earth did all that behaviour came to be associated with the word, Kundalini at all?!!  I think the association is most unfortunate and misleading, and he probably has little idea what he's talking about, when it comes to true Kundalini awakenings.

For me personally, I can see how stuck and blocked my energies were for the 16 or so years I spent in revival churches.  I can see retrospectively what was happening in my life that led to my involvement there.  I see how my heart became hard as I closed myself off from the rest of the world, and retreated to the 'emotional sanctuary' of the revival church.  And how (obviously) that was an unhealthy and dysfuctional way of being.

When I went through the emotional crisis that included leaving revival, I was at a kind of threshold.  The spontaneous experience I had one night when alone in my bed was clearly (to me) a healing mechanism.  In a most lonely time, I experienced a profound and powerful 'touch' (you might say) that made a tremendous difference, encouraging me to move onward and forward with faith that I was moving in the right direction. 

What all this demonstrates to me is just how info can be distorted and misrepresented when one just goes to supposed Christian sources when looking at a matter.  All that nonsense that Strom is going on about has nothing to do with a common experience.  Here's some info that is a bit more sane and helpful, and without the fear-mongering and sensationalism;

Kundalini Awakening

ABOUT KUNDALINI ENERGY AND KUNDALINI AWAKENING AND RAISING



WHAT KUNDALINI ENERGY IS?


Kundalini is a dormant energy within most people.

In Hindu mythology, Kundalini is a serpent goddess who lies asleep at the base of the spine, coiled three and a half times around the first chakra. Her name is Kundalini Shakti, and she represents the unfolding of the divine Shakti energy, the energizing potential of life itself, a living goddess who enlivens all things.

Under certain circumstances, the Kundalini energy awakens and begins to rise through the body, piercing and opening the chakras as she moves in her undulating, snake-like fashion. As Kundalini releases stored and blocked energies, her movement can be quite intense, sometimes painful, and often leads to mental states that seem out of this world.

Circumstances that stimulate Kundalini awakening are many and varied, but are usually triggered by such things as extended periods of meditation, yoga, fasting, stress, trauma, psychedelic drugs, or near death experiences.

Kundalini is a condensed, primal force, similar to the potential energy found in water. When released, it creates a vertical connection between the chakras by opening the subtle channels known as nadi, most specifically, the central channel that moves up the spine called sushumna. If we put water through a small hose at very high pressure, the end of the hose will undulate like a snake. Similarly, the intense energy of Kundalini undulates in the body as it rises through the chakras.

Kundalini can also be seen as a result of the chakras connecting to each other. Theoretically, as the chakras enlarge, the spinning of one can enchance the spinning of the one above or below it.

Kundalini is basically a healing force, but its effects can sometimes be quite unpleasant. Such effects may last for minutes, days, months, or even years.


If you find yourself dealing with uncomfortable Kundalini awakening symptoms, you should:

1) Purify the body. Abstain from recreational drugs, tobacco, alcohol, and caffein, prescription drugs. Avoid food additives, high sugars, or greasy foods. Eat well, especially protein which is generally grounding. Get massage and vigorous exercise.

2) Reduce stress. If you are in for a major spiritual transformation, make time for the necessary changes in your life. You may need to devote more time to your spirituality or health.

3) Find Support. Find other who have knowledge of this experience.

4) Educate yourself. Read about Kundalini, Kundalini awakening,Yoga and learn about Chakras.

5) Treat underlying psychological issues. As Kundalini brings up unresolved issues, this is the best time to deal with them. It will make the ride smoother.

6) Examine your spiritual practices. If you have not been practicing meditation, yoga or some spiritual practice, it may be time to begin. You might need to stop meditating for a while if it increases unpleasant Kundalini awakening symptoms. See what increases or decreases the unpleasant effects.

7) Practice grounding. Kundalini is most difficult when the energy is moving upward without enough energy moving downward to balance. Investigate the possibility of the first chakra issues that need to be resolved in order to give a firmer base. Practice grounding exercise daily.


Resources: Eastern Body Western Mind, Anodea Judith, Ph.D.

Kundalini Research Network, P.O. Box 45102, 2482 Yonge St. Toronto, Ontario Canada M4P 3E3


"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 2:57 AMCopy HTML

When we have these experiences, or similar, could we be actually experiencing the same thing but putting different titles to it?

 

Same principle in different disguises?

 

I recall an event that I experienced. After just having joined the Revival and my first time at operating the “gift of tongues” in a “communion” meeting at GRC.

As I started to speak out I felt a sensation of “pins and needles” starting in my toes and by the time I had done with the speaking, this sensation had completely taken over the whole of my body and lasted for about 2 to 3 minutes at the most.

It felt quite uncomfortable but not so painful, just like the “pins and needle” one might experience naturally, but this covered the whole of my body and I was sweating profusely.

There was another brother that also had this same effect after he had given out a “tongues gift” and he used to double up on the floor as a result. Nobody seemed to take any notice or didn’t care. I was told later that it was a blessing from the Holy Spirit.

 

This phenomenon happened on regular bases as I operated the “gifts” periodically, until one day after riding home from work on my bicycle in forty degree heat, I started breathing heavily from the effects of the heat. As I continued breathing, the pins and needles happened just like when I operated the so called gifts. I realized then that if one starts to breathe heavily there is a tendency one can experience this type of effect and this is what I was doing prior to speaking out. It wasn’t spiritual but a well known physical effect, a trait of the human body’s defense mechanism.

 

This is the deception that one needs to be aware of as one gets involved in such practices and cults.

 

I think there is much to be said by taking note of the biblical explanation of such things which I hope will be shown in due course.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 3:17 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Biblianut

 

This is the deception that one needs to be aware of as one gets involved in such practices and cults.

 

I think there is much to be said by taking note of the biblical explanation of such things which I hope will be shown in due course.


Ralph, really, not EVERYTHING is best explained by the Bible.  As much as it has a great deal to offer (an understatement probably) it really is silly to think that every valid explanation for everything must come from the Bible.  It is nowhere near as comprehensive as you seem to naively think!  "Tunnel vision" hardly begins to describe the narrow mindedness of this outlook!

Seems to me you described a simple physiological state that can be attributed to 'nerves'.  As human beings, we are prone to a myriad of mind-body effects.  Ever had an erection?  Ever cried? Our mind and body are inextricably linked.

But to place every and any apparently 'supernatural' or 'spiritual' phenomenon into a big bag and call it all 'deception' is really just silly paranoid nonsense!

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 3:30 AMCopy HTML

 

Dog,


Of course we don't, I'm just pointing out that when it all falls back to things spiritual the bible to me is the final authority we need heed to for an answer and how we are to deal with such things.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 5:13 AMCopy HTML

Reply to dogmafree








 
Hopefully
  This should guide you in the right direction ...

Blessings

Eric

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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 5:34 AMCopy HTML

Possibly point 6 may explain these extremes of what is going on during those meetings, especially with loud excessive attention seeking over the top Ministers pushing this, noise creates noise, havoc creates havoc the atmosphere then becomes a state of uncontrollable hysteria, if people are feeding on the atmosphere, do you think the spirits are not?  Food for thought

6) Examine your spiritual practices.
If you have not been practicing meditation, yoga or some spiritual practice, it may be
time to begin. You might need to stop meditating for a while if it increases
unpleasant Kundalini awakening symptoms. See what increases or decreases the
unpleasant effects
.

Still a good discussion, its good to look out side the square sometimes, if you look at one of Todd bentlys clips, he’s seen actually kicking old women on the floor in a bid to get her to receive the holy spirit, lets hope all the revival derivatives don’t get hold of that. It’s good that the lord used that to take care of meeting your needs. Dog  I have also heard that
when people go down at the front (as long as its not done as a show) Ive seen them look back just to make sure, that folk have received their healings then as well while on the floor.  Ive never experienced that yet the little bit of rci still left in me still shys away from that, but Id be interested to know of other folks experiences in that area, what they felt etc.
I also figure that if its of the Lord you don’t need anyone catching you would you !!!  



 

 

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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 6:53 AMCopy HTML

Pagan and demonic practices are still practiced in the world today in one form or another.

 
One would expect only to find such practices in third world or darkest jungle countries.

But it might surprise you that it does run just as rampart in parts of the world that one wouldn’t expect to find.

It comes in all forms from very heavy freakish stuff to supposedly mild harmless practices.

What, I believe, we have been finding from the stories and comments above, is part of the spiritual warfare that the bible mentions in scripture ....and the titanic conflict between God and the powerful spiritual forces arrayed against him... (Eph 1:3… comment… NIVSB).  

 

Suggested read: http://www.pleaseconsider.info/. Look in topics list on ‘Demons’

 

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 7:42 AMCopy HTML

Dog  

 

Thanks.  I can see that you are passing on a concern you have about such things.  But nah, I'm not really interested in getting into a lot of Christian fear mongering about nasty spirits etc.

 

I don’t know about ‘Christian’ fear mongering but after listening to the lectures from a *Dr Gerry Breshears on Spiritual Warfare, the Christian world view on the topic is far from fear mongering.

 

 

*http://www.biblicaltraining.org/spiritual-warfare/gerry-breshears)
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 11:22 AMCopy HTML

The very word 'warfare' I find repugnant.  The word is inflammatory, and this outlook (by definition) sets up enemies and conflict, even if they didn't otherwise exist. 

I see this unnecessary mindset often.  People say they are "fighting" certain diseases, for example.  The conflict they have set up in their own mind has them bracing themselves and set to defeat 'the enemy' when the 'enemy' is actually cells of their own body! They determine to attack this perceived dreadful enemy, and cast it out, as though it is an alien hostile presence.  The 'fight' must go on at all costs.  "This 'thing' is not me and I will not accept it", they maintain.

People do the same thing with their own egos... defending and protecting the whole story of their existance as though it is so 'right' and everyone else is so wrong.  An alternative view is seen as "heresy" and "anathema" and must be invalidated. 

And what did Jesus say?

LOVE your enemies!  If you are smitten one one cheek, offer the other.  You know the drill, but DO YOU LIVE IT???

Peace in the world will only come about when we stop the warfare, and that means the warfare that you create by your own mindset. 

Peace!

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 11:42 AMCopy HTML

Dog

Where do you get your material from? Sorry mate, you have really lost me on that one.

"Love thy enemies" I guess it comes down to; 'Deliverance from both human and supernatural enemies comes from the Lord'.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 11:47 AMCopy HTML

 Never mind, Ralph.  Seems I was rambling on from a different perspective, so it doesn't matter.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 11:53 AMCopy HTML

s' ok my friend, "folks are dumb where I come from'
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:25/02/2011 9:18 PMCopy HTML

People say they are "fighting" certain diseases, for example.  The conflict they have set up in their own mind has them bracing themselves and set to defeat 'the enemy' when the 'enemy' is actually cells of their own body! They determine to attack this perceived dreadful enemy, and cast it out, as though it is an alien hostile presence.  The 'fight' must go on at all costs.  "This 'thing' is not me and I will not accept it", they maintain.

Actually, viruses, bacteria, worms etc *are* alien and damaging ("hostile"), which is why our bodies have systems which set out to neutralize and expel them. But I'm sure you already know that, so why did you write this?

Peace in the world will only come about when we stop the warfare, and that means the warfare that you create by your own mindset.

I guess you've never had to deal with an incorrigable bully, or agressor. As the song says, "Sometimes you've got to fight to be a man [read mature]."
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 2:11 AMCopy HTML

Wars are great.
The War on drugs cost billions of dollars per year to fight.  Most of this is a direct tax on people who can least afford it or is borrowed from the banks at compound interest that will never be paid back so it keep on building not to mention that this money is just a created our of thin air backed by nothing. It's big business It's a great way to make money.

You can watch this or not if you stupid please don't watch it you will just hurt your brain OHCANADAMOVIE.COM

 You have to have something working for you to rip of the middle class.

The War on cancer is wonderful. This also make people very rich.

The War on people trafficking,prostitution,illegal immigration also have a top to bottom cost benefit to the people fighting these wars.

And now the new religion sorry the War on GLOBAL WARMING  no no it's CLIMATE CHANGE....what it's now GLOBAL CLIMATE DISRUPTION...DOOOMMMM DOOOOMMMMMM DOOMMMMMM!! 

It's money in the bank for people  who control the game. You really think that Saint Al Gore cares about the planet? He's in it for the money. This is why he now says that he has reconsidered using corn as fuel for cars. Yes the price food went up around the world and the governments are subsidizing this to the tune of billions of dollars per years  but good for gore that he's richer having made his profits on this but he's changed his mind and now thinks he might have over estimated it's benefits. AT LEAST HE SAID HE'S SORRY.

Not to mention that it creates more CO2 than it saves. And the amount of CO2 that humans create is a fraction of what is floating around in the atmosphere that it would equal a frog's fart in a Albert Hall.  And that there is a carbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) tax being taken from every working stiff to give to the Third World Countries via their (Saint Al's) bank account.

Yes we will have wars and rumours of wars and faux wars and every other type of war if it makes money.
AND THEY ALL MAKE A HELL OF A LOT OF MOOOONNNNNEEEEYYYYYYY!!!! 
They even sell weapon to both sides to make even more money. How enterprising and considerate  of them to think about the enemy. Don't want wars to end too soon not do wew?


People are always being tricked into conventional wars and sent their sons off to die to defend the king bullshit but all these wars then as now were based on lies to trick the people into fighting for the bankers. boo BANKERS boooooo.

Watch this scene from the movie The International. It will tell you what you need to know about bang bang wars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eItY-XiBw9g


And here is  a fight that I can get into....watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4l
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 2:53 AMCopy HTML

Here is someone who seem to know what they are talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vAiLHEFXNI
dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 3:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Talmid

People say they are "fighting" certain diseases, for example.  The conflict they have set up in their own mind has them bracing themselves and set to defeat 'the enemy' when the 'enemy' is actually cells of their own body! They determine to attack this perceived dreadful enemy, and cast it out, as though it is an alien hostile presence.  The 'fight' must go on at all costs.  "This 'thing' is not me and I will not accept it", they maintain.

Actually, viruses, bacteria, worms etc *are* alien and damaging ("hostile"), which is why our bodies have systems which set out to neutralize and expel them. But I'm sure you already know that, so why did you write this?

Peace in the world will only come about when we stop the warfare, and that means the warfare that you create by your own mindset.

I guess you've never had to deal with an incorrigable bully, or agressor. As the song says, "Sometimes you've got to fight to be a man [read mature]."

Hi Talmid,

YES...bacteria and stuff (not of us) make up a large proportion of 'our' bodies, I'm led to believe.  Funny that... and we were all so cosy thinking we had our clearly defined boundaries of 'self' all set in concrete.  So 'self' is not self, and things other than 'us' are actually 'us'!!  Whoa... you might be catching on!!  

And yes, there is a natural order.  Things work that way.  In your garden there are fungal spores.  They have a place in the natural order.  Outside they are kept in balance by UV light.  But make a tightly insulated dwelling, (artificial environment) introduce those spores into the building, and control the climate, and those spores can get a bit too prevalent, and become very unhealthy for us.  Go to 'WAR' then by chemically attacking the nasty little blighters, and they can get real narky!  But who started this war?

You see, we can only exist on this planet with each other if we learn to get on, instead of attacking everyone and everything that we perceive to be a threat to 'us'.  We are part of a whole.  We do not and cannot exist in isolation.  We need to learn to stop seeing things as our enemies, but learn to live in harmony.  This is true of us as individuals, us collectively as human beings, us and our planet, and you can carry the theme on to 'spiritual realms' too.

Peace!


Dog.


"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 3:36 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Talmid



I guess you've never had to deal with an incorrigable bully, or agressor. As the song says, "Sometimes you've got to fight to be a man [read mature]."

Well, that wouldn't be the case.  But generally, I find it very very rare to find myself the subject of hostile aggression.  Maybe it has something to do with my outlook.

There have been some times though;

I was attacked physically by two young guys in a road rage incident some years ago.  They followed me and rounded me up in a shop, where I offered my POV, but they clearly just wanted to 'pay me out'.  They then attacked me outside.  Did I try to defend myself?  Yes.  Did I retaliate and 'fight'?   No.

Without getting into details that are quite personal, I have been in a crisis situation with someone I love.  That female person repeatedly assaulted me physically, as well as threatened (and attempted) self harm.  Did I 'fight' her?  No.  Did I do what I could to protect myself?  Yes.  Did I do what I could to restrain her from self harm?  Yes.

Years ago when I was about 16, getting severely drunk with my mates, I recall an incident where a guy I thought was a friend, and who I looked up to, thought it was funny to piss on me while I was on the ground.  It was unprovoked.  Just a senseless act by a drunk youth.  I recall feeling incredibly hurt and depressed, and even thought about suicide at the time.  It was just a shock to think that people can act that way!  I still recall clearly (despite my state) the way I responded.  After he and the guys took off, I was left at his place.  I searched for ways to do a 'good deed' for him.  It was a small thing, but somehow, within myself, I had the sense that I 'HAD' to do what I could to stop the suffering, and not render 'evil for evil'.

Aggressive hostility can come in many forms, and ALWAYS from unconscious people (for they know not what they do).  It is usually not physically violent, but is often equally as hostile.  We cannot control how others act towards us.  But we CAN control how we act towards others.  As Jesus told us.... its easy to be friendly to those who are our 'friends' (or see things our way).  But how we act towards our 'enemies' is an opportunity to show where we are at.  There are NO WINNERS when we go to WAR!

Peace!


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 7:22 AMCopy HTML

YES...bacteria and stuff (not of us) make up a large proportion of 'our' bodies

And as I pointed out we do not live symbiotically with most of the critters. It's why our bodies have a highly devloped immune system. The critters are neutralised and expelled, even to the point of components of our body e.g. mucous being sacrificed. Indeed parts of the immune system function solely to "lock on" and expel the "invaders", which as you say are "not of us".

You see, we can only exist on this planet with each other if we learn to get on, instead of attacking everyone and everything that we perceive to be a threat to 'us'.

So if someone is in an area where the only water supply is stagnant and has fresh wallaby poo in it, they shouldn't disinfect it? Even aerating it, a natural purification technique, kills microrganisms.

But generally, I find it very very rare to find myself the subject of hostile aggression.

Me too.

Did I try to defend myself? Yes.

And that would likely have been considered fighting by the ragers. Now consider your local policeman observing the incident. Should he simply have defended himself? Should he have intervened if it meant physically subduing the ragers? What if the ragers had been beating up on a 10 year old cyclist who happened to get in their way. Would you have physically dragged them off the kid if they didn't stop when you asked?

There are NO WINNERS when we go to WAR!

Try saying that to the Russians when Napoleon or Hitler attacked them. Since I've already fulfilled Godwin's law, you might also try saying that to the survivors liberated from Auschwitz, or the Britons who made it through the Battle of Britain. Closer to home you might like to consider the Battle of Milne Bay or the skirmishes that were part and parcel of the independence of Timor L'Este.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 8:48 AMCopy HTML

Talmid,

Hmmm, since you mention Auswitz etc...

All of that was/is propagated by unconsciousness.  Yet right in the thick of it was a man who demonstrated (and lived) a great example of consciousness.  I speak of Otto Frank.  The legacy he left (inspired by his daughter) has a foundation dedicated to casting light on the dysfunction of INTOLERANCE.  In his writings and interviews, he never spoke of the Nazi's as the 'enemy'.  He never demonised the Nazi's or anyone as being "the evil wrong-doers".  He just identified the dysfunction and damage that comes from anyone who seeks to squash others because they are different.  Otto saw past and through the unconsciousness (for they know not what they do). 

You see, to Otto, he saw that there are no 'others',  no 'us and them'.....  He saw that we all (together) need to awaken, and that happens when we accept that we are no different.  Otto Frank was a wonderful example!


Peace!


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 8:20 PMCopy HTML

 Dog

Sure Otto Frank is a powerful example of someone who professes your theory of oneness.

But ... my point was that the survivors of Auschwitz who were scheduled for the gas chambers prior to the liberation and the preceeding advance of the allied armies are indeed (some of the) winners from a war (contrary to your assertion in post 25#).
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 11:41 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Dog.

Ralph, really, not EVERYTHING is best explained by the Bible.  As much as it has a great deal to offer (an understatement probably) it really is silly to think that every valid explanation for everything must come from the Bible. It is nowhere near as comprehensive as you seem to naively think! "Tunnel vision" hardly begins to describe the narrow mindedness of this outlook! Well, I think you may have missed (what I hope was) Ralph's point. If the Christian God is real, and if Christian Scripture accurately records and reflects his will, then to the Christian believer the Bible does present a comprehensive and reliable guide for making sense of all things 'spiritual' (please see 2 Timothy 3:16 and 17). Now and from what I've read of your views on the subject to date, you seem to believe yourself capable of accurately assessing 'spiritual' phenomena through your physical senses coupled with your mind. However, you also seem to be thoroughly incapable of identifying a raft of logical inconsistencies in the apologia you've offered to the view that you've been promoting of late! Ergo, from my perspective I don't think your s-u-b-j-e-c-t-i-v-e grasp of o-b-j-e-c-t-i-v-e spiritual realities is a particularly sound one. It seems to be based on nothing more substantial than your personal preference of how you'd *like* reality to be.

But to place every and any apparently 'supernatural' or 'spiritual' phenomenon into a big bag and call it all 'deception' is really just silly paranoid nonsense! Why would it be paranoia? I would've thought 'paranoid' better describes our tinfoil-hat-wearing-former-GRC-conspiracy-theorist than it does the position that Ralph presented.

In closing, here's my assessment: you've decided that your 'Revivalist' experience disproves the reality of Christianity. Putting theory into practice you're now bent on seeking 'spiritual truth' apart from Christianity, because you've misunderstood what Christianity is, and what it represents.

It seems to me that you've out-of-hand rejected a faith that's grounded in both 'time' and 'space', for something that's tethered to neither!

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Spiritual Warfare

Date Posted:26/02/2011 11:53 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, 'Out'.

Before concerning yourself about the 'spiritual practices' of others, perhaps you should spend some time examining your own? Clearly you still believe the same nonsense that Revivalism promotes about 'receiving the Holy Spirit', so are you really interested in reflecting on the issue of 'spiritual deception'? If you are, then there's one text-book example that doesn't extend too far past your own nose.

Ian

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