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Date Posted:23/02/2009 7:05 AMCopy HTML

Hi guys

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience or knowledge about the City Christian Churches?  Have just discovered someone I know is attending a local one and questioning their doctrine. 2 of my family attended the church to check it out and mum even took copious notes.  Quite shocking in terms of money ( "donate to VIC bushfire appeal and u get nothing in return, donate through our pastor to the church and u get god's blessing", "hands up who donated tonight. look around at all those who didnt and know they are breathing the same air conditioned air", "those who do not donate will leave the service and forget all that God taught them through it" 10% tithings plus generous donations required), as well as a few other things that are cultic.  Just seeking any information people may have about this church.

Cheers

Evil Outsider
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:23/02/2009 8:40 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Evil.

The Christian City Church? 'Yep', Phil Pringle's denomination. I fellowshipped with them for a year or two when we lived in Canberra. Perhaps more than any other Pente church that I've experienced, the CCC is into projecting the right 'image'. Given that they tend to aim themselves more towards the upper middle class 'market', they aren't shy when it comes to seeking money!

My advice is to be very cautious about the entire Pentecostal movement. Theologically misguided, spiritually shallow and doctrinally naive about sums things up. Far better to become grounded in a more 'conventional' Christian church.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:25/02/2009 5:54 AMCopy HTML

Nothing wrong with Churches talking about money, and about giving ... Jesus talked about it, the Bible talks about it, so it's OK for Churches to talk about money and prosperity.  However I do agree that there are some Churches that may over do it, but that doesn't make them cultish.

Some key ways to identify if a christianised religious group is cultish or not:

1. Do they believe they are the only true Church?
ANSWERS:  GRC yes  CCC no

2. Do they believe a different salvation to being saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ?
ANSWERS:  GRC
yes  CCC no

3. Is the head of the movement so holy that they don't submit to any other leadership?
ANSWERS:
  GRC
yes 
CCC no

Just from these 3 simple questions is pretty clear to see that the GRC is a CULT and the CCC (Christian City Churches) is NOT a CULT. 
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:25/02/2009 11:34 AMCopy HTML

Ian,
Thanks for your response. I value your opinion as I have read a lot of your posts on here and know that you are highly knowledgable and your comments are always well considered. Cheers.


youngies,

I feel you may have misinterpreted my post. I was not concerned that the church was talking about donations - thats how churches operate. What I was concerned with was the church shaming its parishioners who had not donated that evening, denying God's blessing to those who did not donate that evning, and stating that one  should donate to that church v's donating to the bushfire vicitms so as to get something in return! Now I'm not saying the CCC IS a cult.  I am saying that blessings/salvation based on amount of donations IS cultic at worst and spiritually abusive at best.

There were other aspects in my mother's notes that appeared to be similar to traits of cults, but I would need to reexamine her notes - the conditional blessing was the thing that really stood out to me and got my blood boiling. It would certainly be interesting to attend and observe but I know I would want to stand up and enter a healthy debate with the pastor... not a great idea lol.

Cheers
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:25/02/2009 11:38 AMCopy HTML

 one more thing...

I'm not saying the CCC is as extreme or as abusive as the GRC.  But just because a church isnt extreme doesnt preclude it from being cultic. :)
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:25/02/2009 9:13 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, YNM.

Nothing wrong with Churches talking about money, and about giving ... Jesus talked about it, the Bible talks about it, so it's OK for Churches to talk about money and prosperity.

To begin with, whilst Jesus certainly did have an awful lot to say about wealth and possessions (he spoke on this subject, perhaps, more than he did on any other excluding the Kingdom of God), what he had to say is poles removed from what many Western 'prosperity' churches have to say. And that, friend, is the issue.

I hope you won't be overly offended, but I found your 'three-step-what-is-a-cult' checklist to be rather ridiculous. That you could extrapolate those three points with respect to the CCC, to conclusively state what you have, is rather questionable. To begin with, you've altogether failed to adequately define the word 'cult'. In a religious sense, 'cult' doesn't mean what you would infer, which is why I've personally never referred to any of the Revivalist groups as 'cults'. Schismatic, sectarian and frequently 'loopy' aberrations of Christianity? 'Yes'. But 'cults'? 'No'.

God bless,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:25/02/2009 10:55 PMCopy HTML

Hey all, I just started attending CCC not long ago after leaving Revival. Heres my take: I had to adjust at first coming out of Revival. Enjoyed the worship and the music, the talks are practical, simple, relevant, scriptures to go with it. Healing, Miracles, Deliverance, the presence of God. Awesome people, very uplifting. Tithing is emphasized quite a bit though. Heard a couple of things that seem iffy. "When Jesus was on earth people were getting healed slain in the spirit and born again" Hold Up! Jesus wasn't glorified then! Ok spose that's a little thing not worth getting worked up over. I guess to not expect the odd iffy is an unrealistic expectation in any church. That will happen, which is why 1 Corinthians 14:29 tells us to listen, discern whether whats being said is right or wrong. Guess with any church though its important to approach it with a sober mind and judgment. Overall I enjoy going to CCC, I find it very uplifting and encouraging, good fellowship. I don't get judged, and am free to come and go as I wish. Haven't been for a couple of week, doesn't bother me no guilt trip. Still get invited to stuff :)

I also accidentally stumbled into a Calvary Chapel Meeting. My first impression walking in was CULT. A nice lady handed me a Chorus book. Thought I would stay see how it went. The Choruses were very old, very uninspiring. No enthusiasm whatsoever just singing hymns out of a hymn book. Very decent and orderly. There was a testimony on the projector of a man in the states. The man was very enthusiastic and emotional. With the talks they go from one end of the bible to the other, picking off from where they last left off. They go in depth into the scriptures. I enjoyed hearing the word and going into the scriptures. Afterwards met the people and had some fellowship and a chat. They are quite Judgmental on "Alot of the churches out there" that they raise their hands and all that, their disorderly and dont follow what the bible says to do this that blah blah, how distracting the backing music is when trying to pray, and cant concentrate, and exaggerate how disorderly and unscriptural they are. Detected a tone of Bigotry, Pride, Arrogance. They claim to do things the bible way, but it seems legalistic. The Pastor was a bit Antagonistic. 
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:26/02/2009 10:27 AMCopy HTML

TO Eviloutsider - Thanks for your reply, talking about money often upsets people, so it is a touchy area.  As I said some Churches do overdo it on the money thing, but I would brand it cultish because of that.  Best to just check it out for yourself, my reccomendation, if it's worth anything, if they talk to much about money and you don't agree with what they say about money then find a different Church that you agree with.  I would have to say I agree with you that helping those in need should be our prioity, and I'm glad the 'pentecostal' Church I attend gave stacks toward the bush fire victims.

TO Didaktikon - My three step guide to a cult I admit is very basic, I have done extensive studies on how to tell the difference between a christianised cult and a Christian Church.  For the sake of the forum I decided to reduce it down to 3 simple steps to illistrate that GRC is dangerous as far as the gospel is concerned and what they do do people, and in my eyes is a christianised cult - CCC on the other hand while I may not agree with all it's minor teachings, it does preach the gospel and is a Christian Church.

TO Westcoast - I am so glad that you found fellowship in a CCC Church, keep your eyes on Jesus!!!

Bless you all,

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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:28/04/2009 2:38 PMCopy HTML

I'm curious, and I do not mean any offense by this question...

why have people chosen not to call these revival groups "cults"? I guess this questions is especially for those of you who acknoweldge the cultish traits of the group and have some level of understanding of what makes a cult, yet prefer not to call the group a cult.  Please dont think I'm saying you should call it a cult-  I'm just curious as to the reasons why you dont label it as such.

cheers
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:28/04/2009 11:27 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Evil.

This is a contra-Revivalist site, so why would you expect there to be very much in the way of discussion about a non-Revivalist group?

Christian City Church is simply one in a long line of loopy Pente denominations. Caveat emptor.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:28/04/2009 11:28 PMCopy HTML

 Hello EO,

The following link is one written by a psychologist:

http://griess.st1.at/gsk/thediffe.doc

You probably know all of this but for I thought I would include it anyway, becauise I think it was reasonable well written and presents the cultic traits of revival quite well. 

Personally, I myself am quite happy calling the RCI a cult, sect, and even the tares wich the enemy has sown.  I will not call it a true church though.

Regards MrKlms
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:16/10/2009 10:03 AMCopy HTML

 Ian - I didnt expect there to be much talk about CCC... hence I mentioned my post was "slightly off topic" in the title. 

Misterkms - thanks for your reply. will check out the link!
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:17/10/2009 12:07 AMCopy HTML

Good morning, 'Evil'.

What prompted your response, six months after my original reply?

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:29/10/2009 1:16 PMCopy HTML

 Hi Ian

I hadnt checked the forum in about 6 months.  was bored one evening and thinking of osmething to do so thought i'd pop back in and see whats been happening :)
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:08/11/2009 1:56 PMCopy HTML

Hey all. Yeah its been a while, but Im still going to C3, been going for nearly a year. Im just gonna speak about the congregation I go to because all of them are different with their own different flavour/culture/ministry. Hey its not perfect, it does have its problems. We have a lot of teenagers, and this is south auckland, theres all sorts of crap happening here. So yeah Ive had people I dont get along with, Ive seen gossiping and backstabbing, Ive had people offend me, and Ive thought of leaving church.

Then again, some of these same people I have seen backstabbing and gossiping, and who have offended me, I have seen god turn them around. Some of the people who are leaders now had been in church and struggling for years with things before they got their big breakthrough and now they are just powerful men and women of god. Now they are making a stand for the things of god, they are seeking him, saying no to things that are not good, and have just given themselves to god, and they are living the most happy and fullfilled lives.

Our leaders here are always encouraging us with the right message, but its up to us to accept it, they cant make us do it, its up to us. Our walk with god is a process, we all have faults, we are all struggling with something. I can tell you, I know whats been said, I know its the truth, I know its from the word of god. I want to do it but its hard for me because Im slack, I need to make an effort, a sacrifice, its not between me and any church, but between me and my god. I mean I struggle just to pray most the time. But thats where Im at in my walk.

But truth be told I love this church, this is where my heart and my calling is. Our congregation as I whole, I have seen it grow closer together as a family, and I have seen the people grow in Christ and grow in love for one another. The leadership is awesome, their message is spot on, and yeah their job is not an easy one. So yea our leadership is just really calling for discipleship, for leaders, people who dont want to go with the crowd. I think this is a really awesome vision, and its only the begginning.

Through and through the church is awesome, but yeah because its a big church and you get heaps of different people coming all the time, you get some weirdos (sorry if im sounding judgemental) your gonna get issues and frictions, but you gotta overcome all that. This isnt a cult, this is real life, these are real people with real issues, not a bunch of robots. I have been coming along for a while, and hey Ive had struggles in my walk, but Ive had alot of support and love from people.

Yo Evil, in regards to your first post. Mostly the tithing messages Ive heard have been good, but yeah a couple of times I have heard stuff like that. All I can say is that just from observing and knowing the different people over time even leaders and mature believers can get carried away and miss the point. And Ive seen all this stuff happen, we get preached on it also and Ive found myself missing the point sometimes. So yeah thats why its soo important to have people in the church who can discern.

And yeah through my time at C3 South Center, Auckland New Zealand, Ive really learnt what its like inside and out. The good and the ugly, and I just lay it all before you as honestly and as fully as I can. Even though it has its good and ugly, at the same time I understand it. I mean if one or two people phase you, or you hear something thats off, you could either leave and go somewhere else, ignore it, or do something about it. This is something Ive had to learn, and I have the freedom in Christ to do so.

Ultimately the vision, the purpose is to reach this nation, this world for Christ, to be a shining light in this world, and thats a vision I want to be a part of. At the end of the day, thats what its about. Not the money, not the building, not the fancy lighting. Its been a long post, and my grammar and english sucks but I hope you guys understand where Im coming from, god bless you all :).
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:08/11/2009 9:27 PMCopy HTML

Reply to WestCoast  (and Ian's regular blogmate )



"There is no such thing as a perfect church.."  " It stopped being perfect because you joined " - Billy Graham.

M
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:09/11/2009 2:04 AMCopy HTML

Cheers mate, Ive honestly just been struggling with that.
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:09/11/2009 2:54 AMCopy HTML

West Coast,

Cheers mate, Ive honestly just been struggling with that.

I struggled with it for nine years in revival and ten in a Pentecostal church. For me it isn't so much that the church isn't perfect, I don't expect perfection, because I am certainly far from it.

Guess I just would like my tribe to be christians, but the more I try to understand them, the harder it gets.
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:21/02/2011 9:15 PMCopy HTML

So yeah this ones gotta set of alarm bells - DONT TRY AND GIVE ME SCRIPTURES FROM THE BIBLE!

from a pastor... well i know where i stand now

still the people are awesome, but some of the pastors what a flippin joke...

good thing here though, is u can do something about it lol :)
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:21/02/2011 9:40 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, WC.

Huh?

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:22/02/2011 1:56 AMCopy HTML

Reply to WestCoast
So yeah this ones gotta set of alarm bells - DONT TRY AND GIVE ME SCRIPTURES FROM THE BIBLE!

from a pastor... well i know where i stand now

still the people are awesome, but some of the pastors what a flippin joke...

good thing here though, is u can do something about it lol :)

Hey West Coast,

You have left long intervals between posts.  Care to give a few more details about the pastor who doesn't want to be given scriptures from the bible and the others who are a flippin joke.   So...where do you stand now?   And what is it that you are doing about it?

Epi
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:06/06/2011 11:54 AMCopy HTML

Disclaimer: I am just talking about a particular assembly and pastor, and is not representative of the movement as a whole. There is some great assemblies and pastors out there, and some not soo great ones. 

Yeah about the long interval between posts, funny I keep ending up here whenever I need to find answers. Ill try to be more frequent though as my responsibility to you guys. So anyway what happened I was receiving some council from a pastor which was all good. Then half way through the conversation his wife, also a pastor storms in and interrupts the conversation and presumptuously tells me what my problem is and what I need to do, all angry. I had 3 scriptures from memory in regards to the situation. Then she's like don't try and give me scriptures from the bible! And just carries on her fit of rage. This was just a straight fail.


1. Comes in halfway uninvited and assumes the worst
2. Doesn't even understand the bible or English properly
3. Accuses me of something that just isn't and gives crap advice
4. Impatient, angry, bitter, 

On some of the pastors being a joke, you really have to see it to believe it. Some of the pastors in power are not even qualified, equipped, or anointed to be in power. Some just get in because they have been around for a long time, strive to get in, or they get in then let it go to their heads then either get deceived and end up deceiving, grow weary and give up, or just become a know it all and up themselves. 

The issue is a lack of discernment, and even greater lack of people who are willing to speak up. Discernment is highly discouraged within the "Word of Faith" movement which is so prevalent today. Those who speak up are spoken down on as moaners and complainers, nitpicking and what not, basically mocked and ridiculed. A phrase thrown around that really troubles me - "Trust the people god has put in power", instead of test everything...

Since then, I have moved to another CCC Assembly which is leaps and bounds better however I have spotted some potentially harmful thorns here and there. I've also found another church which I will also be attending, for they show great fruits and love, just what my soul needs right now to see some hope and love

gnite, hopefully get back to you's soon cheers
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:06/06/2011 12:00 PMCopy HTML

G'day, Westcoast.

Whatever happened to that good old maxim, 'thrice bitten, twice shy'? Anyway, to use a quaint metaphor, 'if you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas'. In other words, when you decide to hang with the Pentes, then you really can't expect too much in the way of spiritual discernment and sound, biblically-based counsel.

Good to have you back.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:06/06/2011 12:59 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

'if you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas'.

Ian, careful! 

smiley16
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:06/06/2011 9:49 PMCopy HTML

Dog,

Ian, careful! Of what? Offending the Pentes?!

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Slightly off topic - City Christian Churches? Cultic?

Date Posted:07/06/2011 12:48 PMCopy HTML

Haha, I can respect what your saying Ian lol. Today had a really good talk with a brother from church, and yea he pretty much agrees with me. It is looking a bit sad at the moment tbh. I know people they really trying and their hearts are really in it, but there are false teachings and indoctrination that have crept in that are tripping up people. False teachings and prophets etc - http://www.cultwatch.com/saseries.html
article on super apostles, and techniques used to guilt trip people, unhealthy submission, inner outer circle,favouritism. Derek Prince was once part of that group but was first to withdraw and publically repent. 

"(Date Posted: 23/02/2009 7:05 PM)

Hi guys

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience or knowledge about the City Christian Churches?  Have just discovered someone I know is attending a local one and questioning their doctrine. 2 of my family attended the church to check it out and mum even took copious notes.  Quite shocking in terms of money ( "donate to VIC bushfire appeal and u get nothing in return, donate through our pastor to the church and u get god's blessing", "hands up who donated tonight. look around at all those who didnt and know they are breathing the same air conditioned air", "those who do not donate will leave the service and forget all that God taught them through it" 10% tithings plus generous donations required), as well as a few other things that are cultic.  Just seeking any information people may have about this church.

Cheers

Evil Outsider"

Like the point you made in your first post, peer pressure, indoctrination, and guilt to promote tithing, they really do that and its rampant. I watched a sermon today by Creflo A. Dollar, and he was basically pushing the idea of giving money in order to receive blessings or healings. I couldn't stand to be in the room anymore, and when I went out felt soo much better. Felt soo sick to my soul listening to that guy.

The bible says freely you have received, freely give I know, but the above??? Way out of context! 
RCI prophesies
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