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Date Posted:05/03/2009 1:13 AMCopy HTML


Further to Ian's essay on "Fornication and Revival Centres Policy" A biblical evaluation of 1 Corinthians 5:1-8.

Quoting from page 8:  "Sufficient numbers of Revival Centres pastors identified the error for what it was, to exodus en masse into the newly established Revival Fellowship throughout 1995 and 1996, to adequately prove the point. The very tenor of the New Testament message of reconcilliationitself speaks against the Revival Centres International misunderstanding."
                      
                                                 .............................................................................

What of the Revival Fellowship morals stand?  Do they have it right or is it purely the better of the two options?
In 1995 Lloyd Longfield's out for life morals policy was aired and denounced as scriptually faulty by the faction which was to become the Revival Fellowship.

Other underlying reasons could well have surfaced around this time contributing to the split, however the morals policy provided a scripturally convincing reason to break with Lloyd and which directly affected people of the church.  A better reason than, say, a leadership dispute over Lloyd's son Simon being groomed to take over the RCI leadership over older, more experienced senior pastors.  The prospect of a Longfield empire could have irked more than just a few.

The Revival Fellowship morals stand as outlined in 1995 is that those who fornicate (not wilfullly or habitually but just one slip is enough as has always been the case)  will be "put out" of fellowship for usually 6 months.
During this time it is expected that they make their own arrangements to marry.  At the end of their disciplinary 6 months they are permitted to return to the church as a married couple.  If one party decides against marriage the other party is able to return to fellowship at the end of his/her time out.  Only one may return, the other is out for good, even from joining another assembly, even in another state.  This may have changed.  Urch and Chips, you might be able to add more.  I also that some areas might differ slightly on certain things.

If neither wish to marry, but go their separate ways and later both wish to return it is pretty much first in (this are from what I've observed) but the pastor may step in to make the decision and select the one with the more spiritual attitude.  If the one who returns is "put out" or leaves, the other party may then be granted permission to re-enter the church.  (This happens quite often.)

With adultery, it's usually out for good, but there are exceptions.  If husband and wife reconcile and after time has elapsed (years) the person may quietly slip back into fellowship.

 

Looking at the two options, the RF position, whether they are altogether right or not, seemed to gain more support.

 

God Bless

 

Epi


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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:05/03/2009 4:42 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Epi.

It's interesting that when it comes to the handling of morally 'defaulting' people, the RF prides itself on being the more 'biblical' of the two principle Revivalist organisations. But here's the rub: just where in Scripture does it state that people who engage in pre-marital sexual relations must marry so as to set things 'right'? In all my reading of Scripture I've not yet found a single passage to support such a thoroughly legalistic requirement being hefted upon Christians! And whilst ongoing sexual immorality is sure grounds for the breaking of fellowship, the only thing that's required for its complete restoration is repentance on the part of the sinning parties! So in summary, when reviewed from a scriptural perspective, the RF's posture on morals is just as unbiblical as is the RCI's!

God bless,

Ian

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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:05/03/2009 5:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo (04/03/2009 19:37:46)

Apologies for missed words etc in my post.  My computer wouldn't post last night and I lost the lot so typed and posted this one as quickly as I could, hence the errors.

Epi


Hi Epi,

Looking at 1 Corinthians 5
with the example of the illicit affair between the Woman and her step son, this illicit relationship was ongoing - I have to admit and support that Ian is right - yet again for the trillionth time. And how do you make a couple in a situation of immorality like this marry ??? Paul's remedy was conditional excommunication with the purpose of restoration for the offending son ... Interesting though Paul in verse 13 commands the excommunication of such evil but the desired end result was repentance to effect restoration (refer to verse 5) ...

Which begs the question since Paul grouped " greedy, swindlers, idolaters" with the fornicators then why did the RCI FAIL to excommunicate Glenn Duker for his sin ???



Eric..


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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:05/03/2009 9:36 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Eric.

You've once again highlighted a most appropriate point. Isn't it remarkable how Revivalists can read extended pieces of contiguous text, and yet can walk away from the same with just the one point ringing in their ears out of the several that were made? They do as much with Mark 16:17 ff. They do as much with Acts 2:1 ff. And they do precisely the same when it comes to the various Pauline moral 'lists' that links immorality with other forms of unrighteousness, each leading to precisely the same consequence! Perhaps, then, Revivalist pastors should ponder the implications of Romans 2:1-8:

Therefore you are without excuse, whoever you are, when you judge someone else. For on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment is in accordance with truth against those who practice such things. And do you think, whoever you are, when you judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you have contempt for the wealth of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, and yet do not know that God’s kindness leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourselves in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed! He will reward each one according to his works: eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness. (New English Translation)

Scripture, always a mirror that accurately reflects, time and again, the true status of one's soul!

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:06/03/2009 1:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo (05/03/2009 10:17:51)


James Chapter 5 is a good example of prayer and care within the Christian community.

Epi

Hi All and Epi and Ian,

I have been thinking and chewing over Ian's response's again and I have to ask the question "do the revivalist really have any understanding what Biblical repentance means " ???  Crazy question but I am of the opinion that the RCI really do not understand what repentance really is or what it requires ..

blessings

Eric

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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:08/03/2009 11:01 PMCopy HTML

Hi, Eric.

It's quite clear that Revivalists really don't understand the biblical concept of 'repentance'. Officially published statements of the RCI and the RF both define repentance as, "changing one's mind" (or something similar). However, biblical repentance involves more than simply a change to one's thinking. It also involves a change in one's behaviour. And it is this, latter requirement, wherein Revivalists often stumble.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:09/03/2009 2:52 PMCopy HTML

 THE INTERPRETATION ... 

Galatians 6:1-10 NLT
 1 Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. WHAT HAPPENED TO CORRECTING GLENN DUKER? SIMON  WONT CORRECT HIM AS THAT WOULD BE MAKING A JUDGEMENT AND HE IS NOT TO JUDGE. 
OHH...'you who are godly'.... THAT EXPLAINS A BIT. 

 And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. VICTOR TURNED FROM THE TRUTH TO PROTECT HIS 2 FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS IN RVP. DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF YOUR SALVATION AND THE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR AND THE NUMBER OF PASTORS DEALS INVOLVED. IF THE RETURNS ARE GOOD FREE FALL INTO TEMPTATION AND IF ANY ONE ASKS DENY IT. 

2 Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. UNLESS OF COURSE  IF IT"S INCONVENIENT, OR THE TRUTH MAY AGAIN REFECT BADLY ON THE PASTORS.
IF SO ATTEMPT TO SILENCE THE COMPLAINANTS- OUT THE DOOR- OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND AND LET THE SMEAR CAMPAIGN BEGIN. 

 3 If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important. OH AMEN, THAT WILL COME AS A SHOCK!

 5 For we are each responsible for our own conduct. THANK GOD!

 6 Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them. THATS SHARE,  NOT DEFRAUD OR TAKE BY DECEPTION OR CHANGING TITTLE DEEDS.

10 Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, 
we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith- UNLESS IT JEOPARDIZES OUR FINANCIAL PROFIT , MAKES THE PASTORS LOOK HYPERCRITICAL OR IS JUST TOO INCONVENIENT OR MAY REQUIRE SOME EFFORT ON YOUR BEHALF. 
IF IN DOUBT FOOL THE FLOCK, PULL THE WOOL AND SHAFT THE SHEEP..
DON'T CHANGE BEHAVIOR, CHANGE THE FACTS.
CAPITAL responce.... Kaboom tish!  
As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:09/09/2009 1:02 PMCopy HTML

 Yeah

The ever changing Revival morals stand. I'd like an apology for being co-erced into marriage at the age of 17, and I dare Mister Brad Smith to do so one day. That they can at least admit that their 'wisdom' ain't always that wise (incredibly rarely actually) is something, and knowing that they have relaxed this unfair practice may be enough to allow this mothy ghost in the machine to move towards the light and peacefully put it behind him..
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:10/09/2009 3:24 AMCopy HTML

Moth,

The ever changing Revival morals stand. I'd like an apology for being co-erced into marriage at the age of 17, and I dare Mister Brad Smith to do so one day. That they can at least admit that their 'wisdom' ain't always that wise (incredibly rarely actually) is something, and knowing that they have relaxed this unfair practice may be enough to allow this mothy ghost in the machine to move towards the light and peacefully put it behind him..

Be careful what kind of light it is though. It would be nice at times to believe this crap could be put behind us for good, but for some of us, there will always be scars. I think we both know that religious types, no matter their ilk, are never wrong, and they never say sorry. Clearly they get some sense of certainty and security out of the digusting ways they choose to behave. You will never get an apology, they never cared, and like all of us, you were there to make up the numbers.

I am sorry you had to go through this bullshit. I am still gobsmacked every day by the way people use the word of god to hurt others.  Some of us cannot stand by and watch something so precious and real turned into something used to control others. Still others of us go on to take our inner needs into a new religious arena to see who we can manipulate, believing the whole time we are specially called of god to do whatever. Still others go on to a healthy church environment. I will never be able to understand the complete and utter blindness of some people when it comes to the damage they do to others.

Pascal got it right when he said "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction".

Peace on your journey moth, and I am pleased you have found someone to spend your life with.


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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:13/09/2009 12:45 PMCopy HTML

 Hmm

Well then! It looks like many of us have a 'case'. We were given no other choice but to marry, and in no uncertain terms.

I should think a fair few 'pastors' should be worried by their past transgressions of the law. They may catch up with them yet.
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:13/09/2009 10:59 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Pete.

It would be ironic to discover that the RF might have changed a long-standing policy because of legal considerations, rather than the hierarchy finally achieving a more mature Scriptural understanding on the subject, wouldn't it? However if the RF has amended it's policies in the direction as has been suggested, then such can only be a positive thing for those still within. It would be one less destructive issue of unbiblical legalism, and such must be a positive thing! Who knows? Maybe one day they might even get the simple gospel of grace right
smiley9

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:20/03/2010 11:03 PMCopy HTML

Hello everyone.

I just wanted to highlight this thread again as it really is an eye opener, and the points made by Epi and Ian are absolutely spot on.

Clearly RF have had a policy shift at some fairly recent stage, and was it because of fear of the law? Holy big yellow chickens Batman! And very interesting to read about the pretence that goes on to show that nothing has altered, it's always been this way! Hehehe - the church that is never wrong!

It's all bad behaviour boys. Look at what you have done through the years. Smacked botty time you little tinkers!

To the gentle men and women I once knew when we were all starting out together - hello! I am very sorry that the time you have spent in this compromising group has changed you for the worse, as it once changed me, but people can easily become like the god they think they worship.

People are the key, obviously so. Treat them like crap and hurt them, and your foundation is gone. Speak in tongues all day if you like, but your foundation is gone.

This thread highlights really terrible hypocrisy. Absolutely shocking.


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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand

Date Posted:21/03/2010 2:52 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo

DISCIPLINE  Any member who has been 'disciplined' by the oversight should not be comforted by well meaning friends.  This can encourage rebellion and could result in disaster for those concerned.  Any member who has been permanently or temporarily "de-barred" from fellowship should not be visited without permission from the oversight.  It is most important that their "case" should not be discussed with them or others.  Hebrews 12 : 5-11

Hi Epi

Loved this particular part of your post! Look at the phrases used here - "disciplined", "rebellion", "disaster", "should not be comforted", "de-barred", "should not be visited", "permission" "case", "should not be discussed"..........

This is "Revival World" at it's most glorious. Unreal, irrational, destructive and mind-messing! All symptoms of a way of life, but not real biblical life.


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