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Didaktikon
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Date Posted:07/11/2009 12:19 AMCopy HTML

Good morning, all.

Genesis chapter one seems to be a perennial favourite among those who like to wrestle with matters hermeneutical. Unfortunately too many people hold to positions statements which aren't adequately informed by the facts. "The Lost World of Genesis One" by Dr John Walton will go a very long way to properly situating the interested reader with the interpretative options. Its about $20 from Koorong at the moment, and is an excellent read!

Highly recommended!

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 12:43 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

Over night I got thinking, I must Ian or others to recommend a book regarding a good interpretation on Genesis. Well, hello and thanks. Going on line to purchase today.

Thanks

Chips

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 3:22 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Ralph.

Leaving aside the standard commentaries, you could do worse than to purchase Dr Craig Koester's, "Revelation and the End of All Things" ($21 at Koorong). Koester's book functions as a guide to Revelation, outlining all the major interpretative positions, but with a clear focus towards the text and its purpose.

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 4:09 AMCopy HTML

Chips,

If you're looking for a good, readable commentary that covers all of Genesis, then "Genesis: A Commentary" by Professor Bruce Waltke and Cathi Fredricks is as good as any and better than most. $44 from Koorong at the moment.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 4:37 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian

It seemed such a sign to me, I immediately ordered Dr Walton's book and will keep an eye open for the other one, too.

Never thought I'd be even interested enough to read up on these matters - wonders never cease.

I see the 'one most cool' has given a wee warning to our Gal.

Chips

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 4:41 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Chips.

Walton's book is an excellent entree into the subject of Genesis chapter one and the Creation/Science issue. In this respect  it's probably without parallel. The other work, however, is a commentary. Consequently, it's better at providing a sure guide through the entire book of Genesis; of placing the part within the framework of the whole.

Both are excellent resources.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:07/11/2009 10:51 PMCopy HTML

Thanks for the recommendation Ian, going to Koorong this week (20% off everything)!
 
Creation is something that fascinates me - that God would breathe the universes into existence and that we are not just 'accidents' is amazing and beautiful. I work with scientists, biologists, ecologists and most of them just don't 'get it'. 

What they do 'get' though John (following on from your comments) is climate change, deforestation, rising ocean levels, species extinction etc and believe me these things ARE happening.

My personal belief is I feel that, as responsible stewards over what God has given us, we should do all that we can as individuals to respect, enjoy and preserve our beautiful planet earth and I encourage others to at least think about these matters.


God bless, Urch
Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:08/11/2009 5:32 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo

Thanks Ian for those book titles.  I know a few people I would like to pass the Genesis ones on to.

There's some worrying "liberal" thinking among some in (various) church leadership/teaching positions who are of the strong belief that the account of creation, Adam and Eve are a mythical representation of the beginnings of the world and of the human race.  The first five chapters of the bible are being classified as myth, theory, parable, folklore opening up the option of individual evolutionist thinking.  It opens up a beleive it or not thinking, allowing liberal christians to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too, so to speak - belief in both evolution and the bible.

Then of course there's the unusual Lloydian Revivalist slant on Adam and Eve not really being the first human beings.

Epi


It's out of stock - take 3 - 5 weeks to supply order    And here's one for Ian !!  available now !!  - enjoy !

Metanoia
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:08/11/2009 5:58 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Epi.

I guess the issue rests on what one understands to be intended by the term "myth". For example, I have no problems whatsoever with referring to Genesis chapters one and two as "myth"! But this admission is contingent upon the academic definition, rather than the "popular" definition, of the word. Similarly, one must be very cautious about writing off the term "evolution". Again I have no problem with accepting micro-evolution; however, I would baulk somewhat at what's implied by the "macro" version.

I'd suggest that the balance is to be found in reading Scripture literarily before one reads it literally!

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:09/11/2009 3:51 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Epi.

Genesis chapters one through 11 functions as a theological introduction to the entire book, but more specifically, with respect to God's election of Israel. Consequently, one needs to reflect on the overarching purpose behind the "primeval prologue", and the function of the literary devices used therein, if one is to understand the message properly.

In stating this one also needs to be cautious of the error of seeking to "downplay" the historicity of key people and events (for example the New Testament itself affirms the reality of both Adam and the Fall). The "hermeneutical key" is to be found in the reading of Genesis literarily (e.g. with an eye to contextual indicators) before one reads the book literally. After all, such is precisley how an ancient Hebrew would have approached matters.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:09/11/2009 11:44 AMCopy HTML

Good morning, all.

I bought another little book the last time I was at Koorong, but never got around to reading it. Well, last night I did and I was very impressed!

The author was Professor Carsten Thiede, formerly of Basel (he died a few years ago). The title being, Jesus, Man or Myth? (Lion Hudson Publishers, 2005). This little gem is a brief 158 pages of non-technical (although very widely learned) discussion about Jesus Christ. It addresses historiography, archaeology, literary analysis and theological analysis, and "debunks" a number of popularist myths that seek to diminish the established facts surrounding the identity, life and ministry of Jesus.

Buy this and you won't be disappointed!

Blessings,

Ian 

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:22/11/2009 2:43 AMCopy HTML

Reply to brolga

Ian,

Amazon online is my only convenience to aquire books at the moment, as this book cost is very small amount for cost of shipping, I would like to order perhaps something on Revelation. Can you recommend something on Revelation to build the order? thanks.

Ralph

Fww, I have always had the notion; by having the correct knowledge and understanding of the first and last books of the bible, the in-between should fall into place much easier.?



ps: just teasing


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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:22/11/2009 6:56 AMCopy HTML

Reply to brolga

Eric,
Ha, you had me going there for minute until I saw your PS. I previously did have a look at a preview of it, didn't purchase it as yet.

Ian,
thanks, yes might be able to get handle on it someday, 'round about 100 years from now.lol.

I have received  the books Walton's, "Lost world of Genesis One"; Koister's, "Revelation and the End of All Things"

For some strange reason also in the package from Amazon was "The Book of Revelation Revised" by Robert H. Mounce.(NI Commentry on the NT) I don't ever recall ordering that book but could have accidently put it in the cart at sometime. 



 


Tell you what Ralph !! It is frustrating submitting to a lecturer who hasn't got a handle at all on some Greek... in such events, I simply bite my tongue. My last lecturer didn't have the Greek fonting to be able to read my exegesis.

And if Ian were to say that 98% of Pente leaders don't have a handle on Greek at all, I would have to admit he is pretty right. Listening to some of them on the telly and in their church services playing at being clever at quoting a Greek word without any understanding of its role as a noun or verb with its grammatical implication does annoy a wee bit.

By the way check your shipping docket. Maybe you have been blessed by God with a freebie

Eric
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:22/11/2009 9:14 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Ralph.

Well, if you went and ordered Bob Mounce's NICNT volume on Revelation then you've done well! It's the volume that I recommend to non-Greek capable Christians, as being  the "best" general purpose commentary on the Apocalypse currently in print.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:23/11/2009 6:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to brolga

Thanks guys,
Wow, how cool is that? Cool
Must have a good angel watching over me, hey?

  Charis soi ...

..
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:23/11/2009 9:29 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Eric.

I guess you've had better luck with "biblioz" than I have; my experience of them has been less than satisfactory.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:23/11/2009 10:54 PMCopy HTML

It is a little sad that persons who have "come out of " the Revival Centre groups have little realization of the need to develop orthodox theology. I myself was one and I remember that when I did leave these fellowship groups, even after being in a place of leadership, my grip on theology was non existant...

There has been over the last few years many an argument on these boards on Nicea, Arius and I even threw in the name "Athanasius".. Sadly most of the discussion presented showed little appreciation of the Church's History and the road she has travelled as she was oversighted by some very astute and noble men of God towards a parthway of orthodoxy.

Hence I would like to offer this link to an biographical audio file by John Piper on the story of Athanasius

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Biographies/1532_Contending_for_Our_All/

LINK


This is freely available for download...

Happy Listening


blessings

ERic
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:23/11/2009 11:28 PMCopy HTML

Hi, Eric.

A good friend of mine owns a local Christian bookshop, so I try to put as much custom through him as a I can. My backups are either Koorong or the Ridley College bookshop. The one bookshop that I'll never use, under any circumstances, is Word.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:24/11/2009 12:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Hi, Eric.

A good friend of mine owns a local Christian bookshop, so I try to put as much custom through him as a I can. My backups are either Koorong or the Ridley College bookshop. The one bookshop that I'll never use, under any circumstances, is Word.

Blessings,

Ian


Chaire Ian

I use Koorong a lot for backup because a friend of mine ( a very personal close friend who has earned a BTh Hons 1 ) is the store manager at Koorong's new Springwood store and conveniently is only 10 - 15 minutes drive down the motoway.

But if you don't mind me asking you publicly, why not Word ??. Admittedly they are not really focused for the theological academic market and lot of their merchandise is mostly the "Joyce Meyer" triumphalism type quick sell and other peripheral nonsense.  But Koorong does leaves Word for dead when it comes to service and their range of triumphalism merchandise is minimal in comparison to Word. Plus an added bonus is the nice coffee shop at Springwood where you can sit down and chat  over a cuppachino and cake.

blessings

Eric 
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:24/11/2009 12:39 AMCopy HTML

Ian, Eric,

My first purchase at Word (local bookshop) cost me  $140.00 plus for The RSB. I aguired exactly the same bible from Amazon for a friend for $49.80 au including shipping costs. Quite a difference.
Also I notice Word caters for all types of religion, even scientology DVDs

best to avoid.

Ralph



































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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:24/11/2009 2:04 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Eric.

The reason that I don't (and won't) use Word is a mix of ethical, moral and practical considerations.

Ethically, as you pointed out, Word majors in the Pente-esque "Jesus Junk". One can buy any and every form of product marketing heterodox nonsense, but as their glossy catalogues conclusively demonstrate, remarkably little in the way of solid, biblically-informed material. For example, at our local Word store, there is half of one case set aside for "academic" materials (which for Word invariably means entry-level Bible dictionaries and one volume commentaries, etc). However, there are four cases set aside for "Spirit-Filled" materials: Hagin, Meyer, Hinn, Houston, etc.

Morally, it troubles me that Word claims to being "not-for-profit", a claim which I very seriously doubt. Their prices are incredibly inflated in comparison to the other providers (which is indicative of a serious profit margin being generated), but no Word bookstore manager could tell me what charities or causes, whether Christian or otherwise, benefits from the wealth. There's also the fact that Word point-blank refuses to promote, or allow their stores to promote, anything that doesn't have their "brand" prominently displayed.

From a strictly practical sense, I'm not even remotely interested in "WWJD" wristbands, or Smiley-faced Jesus hacky-sacks
The material that I require isn't the material that the average Word Bookstore customer is particularly interested in.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:24/11/2009 2:35 AMCopy HTML

Well said Ian,

I could hazard a guess that if Martin Luther saw what was going on the "Christian merchandise" arena of AD 2009, he would turn in his grave..

blessings

Eric
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:24/11/2009 9:39 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Eric.

Well I reckon he would. Martin Luther had quite a bit to say about the critical need for an educated Church, so were he alive today, he'd probably be aghast at the level of biblical illiteracy among average western Christians. I lament the fact that "froth and bubble Jesus junk" sells so well; that there's clearly such a strong market for material of this sort. A good many Christians apparently own more books written about "Christian self-actualisation" than they do the content of Christian belief, and they seem altogether happier listening to "sermonettes for Christianettes" than they do homilies which challenge their intellects as well as their emotions. A fact of life in the "sound-bite" age, I suppose.

Sadly, the decline in the content of belief extends to pastoral preparation as well. More and more churches and denominations seem prepared to accept as candidates for ministry, men and women with absolutely no formal, academic theological preparation whatsoever (once upon a time, such was the preserve of the Pente's alone)! Now I'm capable enough to be tinkering with my certain parts of my car, but when it comes to the stuff that really counts, I gladly handover the reins to someone who is far more knowlegeable, capable and trained in auto-mechanics than I am. Why isn't the same approach more actively sought when it comes to our spiritual care? Do people mistakenly believe that "spiritual-gifting" makes such mundane preparation unnecessary? Do people honestly think that "ministry" is 95% inspiration and only 5% preparation?! The very fact of Revivalist pastors should disabuse all of us of that patently incorrect notion! God gifts, churches train and equip, and then before people are released into ministry.

And, brother, what of the very sad reality that the standards in academic ministry preparation have also been in slow decline for years? When I first began my studies, for example, at least one year of Greek and one year of Hebrew was mandatory for a bachelor's level theology/ministry award. Now there are colleges with absolutely no compulsory original languages requirement at all, with a large percentage of them currently mandating only one semester of Introduction to Greek! A good many of the ministry degrees offered in Australia nowadays are structured around "church management", "building teams" and "dynamic stewardship" more than they are the skill sets critically needed for accurate and meaningful Bible exposition.

But all is not lost! The latest data apparently indicates that the growth segment of the western Christian Church, the 16 to 35 year age bracket, is hungering for solid doctrinal content in preaching. Consequently, the bar is gradually being raised in theological education, even though it has remained at a decent height all along, in certain colleges


Blessings,

Ian 

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:25/11/2009 8:33 AMCopy HTML

Haa !! 1 year at Greek and two years later I still bang my head into it almost nightly now..( and I still have problems with those pesky pronouns ) I year at Greek = 26 weeks in semester time and I can agreeablely with Ian assure anyone reading this post that all college imparts is the BASIC tools. It takes time and time and work and work for it to really sink in but don't let that discourage you from investigating the "koine" language of the Bible. And it is rather exciting when you peruse a text and discover something in the grammar which your work has put there and you recognize something hidden from the translations that communicates something from the original autograph to you. It reminds me of my years as a kid in North Queensland going out to Mount Surprise, west of Cairns with my Dad and His mates to dig for Topaz on our weekends. You would come across a wash and you would work that wash and eventually you would find beautiful raw Topaz and Blue Aquamarine gems.  But you could not just pick any wash, you had to have a trained eye to know the type of wash where to go to work. And it is like that with Biblical Greek. You need some quality college training to get you just started just to point you in the right direction but after that !! well then the rewards do come with the work ..

blessings all

Eric 

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:26/11/2009 6:08 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Good morning, Eric.



Sadly, the decline in the content of belief extends to pastoral preparation as well. More and more churches and denominations seem prepared to accept as candidates for ministry, men and women with absolutely no formal, academic theological preparation whatsoever (once upon a time, such was the preserve of the Pente's alone)! Now I'm capable enough to be tinkering with my certain parts of my car, but when it comes to the stuff that really counts, I gladly handover the reins to someone who is far more knowlegeable, capable and trained in auto-mechanics than I am. Why isn't the same approach more actively sought when it comes to our spiritual care? Do people mistakenly believe that "spiritual-gifting" makes such mundane preparation unnecessary? Do people honestly think that "ministry" is 95% inspiration and only 5% preparation?! The very fact of Revivalist pastors should disabuse all of us of that patently incorrect notion! God gifts, churches train and equip, and then before people are released into ministry.

And, brother, what of the very sad reality that the standards in academic ministry preparation have also been in slow decline for years? When I first began my studies, for example, at least one year of Greek and one year of Hebrew was mandatory for a bachelor's level theology/ministry award. Now there are colleges with absolutely no compulsory original languages requirement at all, with a large percentage of them currently mandating only one semester of Introduction to Greek! A good many of the ministry degrees offered in Australia nowadays are structured around "church management", "building teams" and "dynamic stewardship" more than they are the skill sets critically needed for accurate and meaningful Bible exposition.

But all is not lost! The latest data apparently indicates that the growth segment of the western Christian Church, the 16 to 35 year age bracket, is hungering for solid doctrinal content in preaching. Consequently, the bar is gradually being raised in theological education, even though it has remained at a decent height all along, in certain colleges


Blessings,

Ian 


Chaire Ian,

Just got the word today  that the college that I am associated with is offering a "Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry" and are offering students currently doing the BTh award with SCD to swap to the BCM award.. .. Too late for me - gladly of course, and no way am I leaving my MTh. program !!  Just between you and me, I might be wrong but this in my guestamation  may be a push from Hillsong who have a major stake in Southern Cross. But time will tell.

I am awaiting the issue of my Testamur which will arrive in the New Year.

Charis soi

Eric
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:26/11/2009 9:30 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Eric.

"Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry", huh? Such a title is an oxymoron as Christian ministry is, by virtue of it's practice, always "contemporary". However, for the "happy-clappy-Pente-Chappies" the term "contemporary" clearly is intended to distinguish what they do from what they perceive to be "traditional" forms of ministry.

From my point of view professional bachelor's degrees (e.g. Bachelor of Ministry, and now the "Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry") are unnecessary. In point of fact I'm of the opinion that they actually weaken rather than strengthen the general standard of ministry. Why? Because they place the emphasis on meeting congregational "felt/perceived" needs rather than on preparing men and women for rigorous expositional preaching ministries. If you were to compare what is required for a Bachelor of Theology against a Bachelor of Ministry in either the SCD or ACT Handbooks, for example, then you would discover the BMin to be a far less rigorous course to successfully complete than is a Bachelor of Theology.

I find it instructive that Moore Theological College, whose base degree is a four years Bachelor of Divinity, produces Christian ministers who are far more capable and effective in the service of their congregations and the Gospel than are graduates from many of the lesser Bible/theological colleges. The emphasis at Moore is on historical and biblical theology, and upon exegesis undertaken from the original language texts. In other words, they "major on the majors", to the benefit of their graduates and their congregations.

Perhaps this new "Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry" is simply another shot at being novel by the ACC/AoG crowd, this time in a more "academic" setting?

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:27/11/2009 4:10 AMCopy HTML

Pooh-boy,

Surely not even you are that obtuse?

Here's a thought that you may care to ponder: reflect on just how many tens of thousands of Roman Catholic priests there are in the world, then extrapolate the number who have been involved in child molestation based on historical data. Once the light "goes on" with respect to those who you ignorantly fear, try the same exercise with medical doctors, legal practitioners, and school teachers. Then, in a flight of sheer fancy, consider what results when ordinary fathers who molest their own and others' children are reviewed.

Care to hear what I think? Statistically, it's probable that you are more likely to be paedophile than would be the local Roman Catholic priest who lives down the road!

And now the twenty-dollar question: who ties your shoes for you before you leave home every morning?

Goose.

Ian

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:27/11/2009 5:42 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Good morning, Eric.

"Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry", huh? Such a title is an oxymoron as Christian ministry is, by virtue of it's practice, always "contemporary". However, for the "happy-clappy-Pente-Chappies" the term "contemporary" clearly is intended to distinguish what they do from what they perceive to be "traditional" forms of ministry.



Perhaps this new "Bachelor of Contemporary Ministry" is simply another shot at being novel by the ACC/AoG crowd, this time in a more "academic" setting?

Blessings,

Ian


Afternoon Ian.

Oh I indeed agree. Look you are right.. I don't feel any value now in any degree in the field of Ministry with the language component missing. Greek has become for me a VERY EXCITING part of my devotional reading.. It is just SOOOO GOOD !! That's the JUICY PART !!!

For example John 14:6

Greek " legei auto ho Iesous, Ego eimi he hodos kai he alletheia kai he zoe oudeis erchetai pros ton patera ei me di emou "

speaks much more than

English " Jesus says to him, I am the way and the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through me."

You can write an excellent exegeses from the Greek that is just not possible from the English. The vocative address by Jesus, the use of the conjunction "kai's" . The "Ego eimi" . The feminine nouns "aletheia" and "zoe".. absolutely brimming with valuable insight into the author's intent. But as for the English translation ?? well that's all you get out of it: A mere translators opinion to work from.

But getting back to the BCM comment I made. I think it is a "push comes to shove" from Hillsong and I am not being negative towards Hillsong, just a tide cautious. See Ian the Word should mould US !!   NOT US moulding the Word  to fit.

Now one final question. What has a Catholic Priests misdemeanor got to do with you ??  I think the word "goose" is too kind for a superlative to use...

 

Charis soi

Eric


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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:17/05/2011 4:16 PMCopy HTML

Posts like this brighten up my day. Tahnks for taking the time.
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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:21/05/2011 2:34 PMCopy HTML

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Re:Read these books!

Date Posted:22/04/2012 8:16 AMCopy HTML

John H Walton’s ‘Lost World of Genesis One’ was one of a high light to me as with ‘Revelation’ by Gordon D Fee. Both authors’ approach is different to the view of most commentaries I have read, but to me they seem to give the most satisfying explanation of the subject matters.

The message of Genesis1 gets away from the popular notion that God is showing ‘how’ he created the earth (i.e. materially), but it is actually telling us how he made his creation, which already had been created and the earth was “formless and empty” (verse 1), to ‘function’ in an ordered system.

Pseudoscience has no place in trying to workout the story of creation if it is taken as material rather than functional, it just doesn’t work that way.

As we read on through the bible we find God gives little attention to material origins and one can ‘mirror’ the same approach to other parts of scripture; thoughts about the flood for instance and just this morning I was thinking of John 1:v1 “In the beginning was the Word……” ;

The ‘Word’ became “functional” for the benefit of man’s salvation through Christ.

 

God reigns over every aspect of creation and life at a functioning and ordered level.



I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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