Rci pastor has been uncovered

Title: Rci pastor has been uncovered
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Date Posted：08/06/2008 5:17 AMCopy HTML

See "the age" - 'preacher who preyed on his flock' article.

The whole thing is very sad really, i sort of feel for Glen too, i mean read Simon L comments " he will be kicked out if found guilty" where is the love of God in that, i mean yea sure he needs to be dealt with, but for "the Church" to punish him further is horrendous, this is up to the laws of the land, the church should be there to council him and his family ( not to say what they should be doing for those burnt by this whole horrible thing) but no push them away let it not tarnish there precious reputation, what a joke and a sad indictment on the christian church as a whole.

To those that have been burnt by this whole thing I am so sorry that you have gone through this and i pray that you have restitution.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：17/05/2009 11:25 AMCopy HTML

 What is the difference between?
Glenn Duker
Simon Longfield
Victor Samoilenko
about $40 million

cultivation leads to cultevasion -
don"t reap what they sow!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：17/05/2009 10:53 PMCopy HTML

I seems that people are asking about this Duker affair. The funny thing is they are getting told some interesting answers. Not that many of the RCI folk know about this site (which is understandable). At the recent Coff Harbour camp at Easter Simon was asked about what he thought of the situation. To which he allegedly replied "I wish people would follow the rules". I was somewhat dismayed at this answer. Considering that when Simon took over RCI he changed the rules and redrafted them as Living the Life or something to that effect. In which there was nothing about doing business in the church. BUT then in 2007 a (by revalation LOL) redraft was drawn! You now must inform the oversite when doing business with people in the church.... Ok then I gather all the Pastors knew this as they were INVOLVED!!!! Apprently no one questioned Simoin over this..... LAME!!!
There are a number of people who are not very happy about the situation at all, the handling the lies that is being told etc..etc.. If this does go to court, or if the RCI is sued I am guessing the judge will have a little chuckle to himself at which the manner that this has been delt with.
On the other side most people in the RCI do not know much about it becuase it is really none of thier business, unless you where close to the affected area (the hot spot). I even talked to someone about it recently who had only a small idea about it (was told by oversite). I then told them the whole story (as to what I know), and didn't choose sides. They couldn't believe it! So I told them to check it out for themselves. They are most disgusted and like me believe that the Lord will sort the wrong doers out. I hope it is quickly too!
Not all in RCI are liking what is going on with this Duker.
 

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：04/06/2009 4:10 AMCopy HTML

The Propaganda Campaign that has been building, will continue to be spun at this years Rally.
Simon's defense concerning his action's, harboring and publicly supporting of one of Australia's most expensive bankrupts on Revival Centres behalf, who knowingly and willingly decimated and defrauded not just the public but also his brethren.

The Blame Game excuses,
1. The Financial Crisis (GFC struck 08, this started in 04)
2. Vengeful members  (because things get to the Supreme Court with no substance/merit)
3. Psychotic Accountant, acting for vengeful members and bitter investors (why are they angry they were only criminally defrauded)
4. Greedy investors, which would include the seven Pastors involved and  again it will be aimed at
 (excuse number 2) vengeful members although their issues were not actual investments. (Strange how Samoilenko was the only person to actually get a cash returnof $90,000 or is that just luck?)

But who wants to get caught up in the facts?

Funny the name missing on Simon's 'Blame Game List'  are those fully responsible and who benefited financially the Dukers. 
What a bizarre failure of admission of obvious responsibility.
How stupid does he think people are? Very! and sadly for some that has proven to be true.

Simon continues to hold a stern brave face saying -If he had to do it all again he wouldn't do anything different.
What a concerning statement, you would hope to learn from your mistakes and Simon has made plenty with his mishandling and giving of contradictory and misleading information. 
He was reported to be as in a nervous sweat in Court.Back on RCI turf  Simon rules, he answers to no one, puffed up arrogance is only prevalent when you think yourself above every one else.
Simple logic- if the Dukers had even vaugley been trying to put any of this right they would sell all that they have, but they do not even acknowledge their wrongs. Or are they homeless, car less and destitute?
The continual accumulating evidence is overwhelming and morally appalling. 
To prefer the wicked is just spiritually shameful.
The public see's this for what it is yet Simon chooses to still now continue the charade which has legally embroiled Revival Centres in ways yet to be realized. 
Those that have question Simon have been less than convinced by his attitude and consistency of  honesty in his answers.
Those people have either left or will leave eventually, as their personal credibility will be dissected strand by strand. Divide and conquer anyone who stands against you, regardless of right or wrong is RCI leadership logic.
Hierarchy before truth, people or God.
Even Lloyd is barely on speaking terms over Simon's drawing of Revival Centres into such public disrepute.
Prompt and Scriptural leadership was the advised action, which was ignored.

If the attendance numbers being down at this years convention is questioned,
Simon can just blame the Swine Flu -but it's really the Porky's people are sick of!!!!

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：04/06/2009 1:19 PMCopy HTML

 Duker's company web stumps trustee
June 2nd, 2009
THE bankruptcy trustee to former Mermaid Beach Pentecostal pastor-cum-failed businessman Glenn Duker has sought federal money to pursue his investigations further.
Dennis Turner, of PKF Chartered Accountants, yesterday took the unusual step of requesting funding from the federal bankruptcy administrator, the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia.
Mr Turner, in his application to ITSA, said further investigation was warranted by the high level of public interest and the complexity of Mr Duker's business affairs.
Mr Duker has personal debts, including personal guarantees, of about $34.5 million.
His business affairs involved 36 companies, including a family investment company.
Mr Duker, believed to be in Melbourne, filed for bankruptcy in January after the collapse of his company RVP Group.
The company, which was tied up in buying and selling property on the Gold Coast, was placed in liquidation last year.
Many of Mr Duker's creditors are believed to be involved with a revivalist sect, including fellow pastors.
The list of creditors against his estate runs to 22 pages, including both proven debts and those under review.
Mr Turner asked creditors to fund further investigation, but he said none had come forward, leaving ITSA the sole remaining option.
In his application, Mr Turner cited Mr Duker's numerous company structures requiring scrutiny for recoverable assets, the vast number of creditors and staggering extent of shortfall.
If the application is successful, Mr Turner will examine Mr Duker under oath, together with his spouse, accountant and possibly others.
He said he intended to investigate all transfers of funds, possible overseas transfers and voidable transactions, and any undisclosed assets.
"I am not sure whether further investigation will uncover additional funds for creditors because, to date, we have only been able to scratch the surface, which makes additional funding imperative," he said.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：04/06/2009 2:30 PMCopy HTML

The Australian financial Review
Tuesday 2 June 2009

In the middle of the page is a cartoon of Glenn Duker Sitting across from the Trustee being questioned.
Caption: Glenn Duker being questioned.
Truste: "Where's the money?"
Duker: "God knows....."


Dukers Trustee Relies on the public Purse.

Former Fundamentalist priest Glenn Duker may be one of Australia's biggest bankrupts Australia has ever seen.
But getting to the bottom of his affairs is proving no easy task.
Dukers Bankrupsy trustee Dennis Turner of PKF has been forced to apply for funding from the federal bankruptcy administration to investigate Duker's financial affairs after drawing a blankfrom the more traditional sources.

A Melbourne solicitor until he completed a course with spruiker Henry Kaye, Duker was also a pastor with Melbourne based Revival Centres International.
He ran up a debt of $34.5 Million, including personal gaurentees to members of the church, for Gold Coast property plays.
And it's not as if there is a shortage of Creditors- the list  runs to 22 pages and Includes National Australia Banks Homeloans Ltd, the largest single creditor.
Turner has asked them all for funds to finance further investigation, but has drawn a blank, leaving the Insolvency  and trustee Service Australia as his last, best option.
If he gets the money, Turner wants to examine Duker under oath, together with his spouse, accountant and possible others.
These affairs have a nasty habit of failing back on the public purse.
Two years ago, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission dropped an action against Duker after he promised to repay money he owed to investors. Duker went on to rack up more debts before throwing in the towel in January.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：04/06/2009 7:58 PMCopy HTML

Found this in the Herald Sun as well at http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25571917-5014150,00.html

Trustee wants funds for bankruptcy probe

John Beveridge
June 02, 2009 12:00am
<!-- Split page --><!-- Lead Content Panel -->THE bankruptcy trustee in one of Australia's largest personal debt cases has made an extraordinary request to the federal bankruptcy administrator to provide funds for his investigation.
Dennis Turner, of PKF Chartered Accountants and Business Advisers, wants the Insolvency and Trustee Service Australia to fund investigations into a former Melbourne pastor and lawyer Glenn Phillip Duker, whose unpaid personal debts and guarantees total $34.5 million. 
Mr Turner said he wanted to investigate a labyrinth of 36 companies to look for assets to help repay a list of creditors that runs to 22 pages. 
"I am not sure whether further investigation will uncover additional funds for creditors, because to date we have only been able to scratch the surface, which makes additional funding imperative," he said. 
The case is complicated because some of the creditors claim they were convinced to invest with Glenn Duker because of trust engendered by his former post as a pastor with the Melbourne fundamentalist church, Revival Centres International. 
While the Duker family are still connected to the church, some of those who blew the whistle on his failed Gold Coast property RVP Group claim they have been effectively forced to leave it. 
Mr Turner said there was a high level of public interest in the bankruptcy, but creditors had been unwilling to fund investigations into a web of 36 companies, including a family investment company. 
Mr Turner said given the huge extent of the shortfall, if the funding came through, he wanted to examine Mr Duker under oath, together with his spouse, accountant and possibly other people. 
He wants to investigate all transfers of funds, possible overseas transfers, and look for voidable transactions and undisclosed assets.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：09/06/2009 7:05 AMCopy HTML

 From chat box:  I find it strange that both they and the Ansic's have been shown the door, and strange how both happened in Townsville.  And some of the comments back of PS...well what does one expect.... 
Why bother telling him in the first place. If you use the duker affair as anything you will notice that the big wigs will ALWAYS take the side of the pastors as TRUTH but never the plebs, simply because pastors CAN NOT LIE and are ALWAYS CORRECT......or so it seems. Discernment seems to be somewhat lacking and if that is the case how do these pastors expect people to trust them? Baffling really.....


It has all the same behavioral characteristics of the Duker case, harass those that speak out until they break or assassinate their characters till they are treated with disrepute. 
Then make the problem/complaints their fault, classic assassination techniques handed down from Father to Son.
As with the similarity to the handling of the Duker case, Simon continues to display his arrogant lack of care or concern to the individuals that he is charged before the Lord to care for.
How it is not obviously seen, that these men are not displaying the attributes of Godly men is beyond reasonable understanding. How long can ignorance be claimed.
But yet, by many  it is seen, acknowledged  and still unaddressed, even those in RCI that do acknowledge the senior Pastors discrepancies as untruthful and their behavior as unacceptable,  their inaction to rebuke and reprimand them shows they have no Godly faith in standing up to them, they are incapable of acting in trusting  the strength of the Lord, it is obviously not grasped or this belligerent behavior would not be tolerated for a minute.
They cower to these men, not one spoke out at the Pastors meeting this weekend. 
So they continue to be silent accepting rule under what has been said the time of 'Evil Kings' waiting for some one else to deliver them from their problems.
How many more lives will be willfully  broken at the hands of these men.
The Present Pastors are the epitome of cowardly faithlessness, it's the equivalent to David hiding under his bed instead of choosing to trust God and face Goliath.  
It seems it is you within the walls of RCI that don't love the Lord.
Is there not one with faith among you.
Christ sacrificed his earthly life for us, bore the pain of the cross, you wont even face confrontation for fear of mens retribution, it fills me with shame that I ever held any of you in respect.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：11/06/2009 9:25 AMCopy HTML

Ezekiel 34   1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
   2Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of RCI, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of RCI that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
   3Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool from tithes and the Mission Fund (a black hole), ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
   4The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them, manipulating and deceiving them, and shown no remorse.
   5And they were scattered, because there is no honest shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
   6My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them though it is your duty all Pastors of RCI.
   7Therefore, ye shepherds of the RCI folk, hear the word of the LORD;
   8As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
   9Therefore, O ye shepherds of RCI, hear the word of the LORD;
   10Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the RCI shepherds; and I will require my flock at your hand Simon, Victor, and the rest of you Pastors of RCI; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more from taking of the tithes and Mission Fund; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
   11For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out, those innocent ones that you have condemned.
   12As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

cultivation leads to cultevasion -
don"t reap what they sow!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：12/06/2009 1:08 AMCopy HTML

 Lorilea Duker has filed  Bankruptcy.It will be interesting to see if her 'estimated' debt is any where near the truth once investigations are proceeded on the Director of failed RVP Group. No doubt the same amount of Legal intervention will need to be applied to get half the truth. 
Glenn Dukers RVP bankruptcy initial unsubstantiated estimate was $3Million, once investigated proved to be over $10 Million.
Glenn Dukers personal liquidation at present claiming $34 Million but who knows what the real debt will be once further action and investigation proceeds.

That's 2 Dukers down, 1 to go!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：15/06/2009 2:36 AMCopy HTML

 Conversations from Convention:Apparently Simon and Victor see the Duker ordeal as a huge joke.Simon intends to reinstate Matthew Duker as a Pastor as soon as the heat is off, because regardless of evidence Simon still believes the Dukers have done NOTHING wrong.
Victor's vocabulary became quite colourful when speaking of the recent document concerning himself and  the Townsville Assembly.
The word 'Arsehole' is apparently not inappropriate as Victor used it continuously in conversation- charming!
Their mocking and complete disregard for the Damage they and the  Dukers have caused individuals  is such atrocious behavior and should never have been allowed. 
These men are lovers of themselves they stink of filthy lucre.
Turn away from such wickedness, don't follow these men into the ditch any longer.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：15/06/2009 3:03 AMCopy HTML

Ya gotta wonder if anyone in a leadership position (pastor, houseleader etc) has any wisdom or cojones given that they submit to these twits. And what their submission does to their "flocks" is mind boggling.
 
If any of you are reading this, for goodness sake **think**. As Peter Kay used to say, "You're not playing trains."

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：15/06/2009 4:36 AMCopy HTML

Allow me to plagiarize an ancient "Melbourne/Croydon/Frankston Guidlines" sheet:

[i]"Take heed therefore unto yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock - Also of your own selves men shall arise speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch and remember for the space of three years I ceased not to warn everyone night and day with tears." (Acts 20:28-31).[/i]

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：16/06/2009 11:10 AMCopy HTML

Reply to outaegypt (15/06/2009 12:36:48)

 Conversations from Convention:Apparently Simon and Victor see the Duker ordeal as a huge joke.Simon intends to reinstate Matthew Duker as a Pastor as soon as the heat is off, because regardless of evidence Simon still believes the Dukers have done NOTHING wrong.
Victor's vocabulary became quite colourful when speaking of the recent document concerning himself and  the Townsville Assembly.
The word 'Arsehole' is apparently not inappropriate as Victor used it continuously in conversation- charming!
Their mocking and complete disregard for the Damage they and the  Dukers have caused individuals  is such atrocious behavior and should never have been allowed. 
These men are lovers of themselves they stink of filthy lucre.
Turn away from such wickedness, don't follow these men into the ditch any longer.



.....How do you hear this stuff.....?? And how many people has it sifted through to get to you??
Just askin.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：16/06/2009 10:13 PMCopy HTML

Simon intends to reinstate Matthew Duker as a Pastor as soon as the heat is off, because regardless of evidence Simon still believes the Dukers have done NOTHING wrong.

The Mole is under the impression that Matthew was also a Director of the Duker Companies and if this is the case he may also be of interest to ASIC should prosecutions arise.

Hence Simon may wish to slow down on Matt's rehabilitation programmewhich needs more work anyway - refer BA of the Week thread.

Mole

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：17/06/2009 7:52 AMCopy HTML

 Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the statistics on this particular thread?
Over 11,000 views compared to
Simon Says over 5,000
and RCI Doctrine over 1,000

This has to be a record? What say you Mod?

What it is saying to me is that many RCI folk are wanting to know the truth as they know they are not getting it from their RCI Pastors. The truth is that this post has not just exposed the real truth about the Dukers but also the lies and deception of their RCI Pastors as well!

If anyone else out there knows some helpful facts please post them here (even if anonymously). So what say you?

cultivation leads to cultevasion -
don"t reap what they sow!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：19/06/2009 10:24 AMCopy HTML

Reply to CAGD (11/06/2009 19:08:13)

 Lorilea Duker has filed  Bankruptcy.It will be interesting to see if her 'estimated' debt is any where near the truth once investigations are proceeded on the Director of failed RVP Group. No doubt the same amount of Legal intervention will need to be applied to get half the truth. 
Glenn Dukers RVP bankruptcy initial unsubstantiated estimate was $3Million, once investigated proved to be over $10 Million.
Glenn Dukers personal liquidation at present claiming $34 Million but who knows what the real debt will be once further action and investigation proceeds.

That's 2 Dukers down, 1 to go!

Lorilea Dukers personal Liquidation is being claimed a debt of $11Million, numerous creditors have not been declared, so there will be a few more Million to account for yet.
The RVP Liquidation debt Dukers originally declared was a $3Million debt but is now revealed to be closer to $10Million
Glenn Dukers personal liquidation is claimed at $34Million but was said (in the Creditors Report posted earlier) many Millions will be added to that yet, closer to $40Mil.

$11Mil+?Undeclared debts (Lorilea Duker)
$10Mil+(RVP)
$40Mil+(Glenn Duker)
$??Mil ??Mathew Dukers Liquidation??

=$61Million MINIMUM Debt SO FAR.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：21/06/2009 11:26 PMCopy HTML

The Sun-HeraldBankrupty saves DukersKate DennehyJune 21, 2009
CREDITORS of failed property developers Glenn and Lorilea Duker suffered another set-back when Mrs Duker declared herself bankrupt, owing about $11million.
The Dukers, through at least 30 companies, have operated various real-estate schemes in Queensland, Victoria, NSW and possibly Western Australia.
Mr Duker, a former Gold Coast solicitor and preacher, went bankrupt in January, owing more than $40million to 63 creditors. The creditors had hoped to reclaim missing funds through Mrs Duker, but that hope has now been dashed.
The bankruptcy report, released last week, showed Mrs Duker, 34, had sold, transferred or given away six Queensland properties in Camp Hill, Mermaid Beach and Seven Hills in the past five years. Assets listed included a property in Camp Hill worth $650,000 and another in West End worth $875,000.
But accountant Scott Bennison said most of the Dukers properties had at least one mortgage attached and creditors were unlikely to receive money from those assets.
Mr Bennison, who represents a group of Queensland creditors, said the Dukers had set up two-dollar companies and had no intention of repaying the people they did business with.
He said creditors might be able to take legal action against professionals, including their solicitors and accountants, involved in the transactions they had with the Dukers through the professionals' indemnity insurance.
"Glenn Duker often acted as solicitor in transactions between clients and his own companies which is a conflict of interest," he said. "Some of the advice creditors were given was blatantly negligent so they might be able to sue because of this."
The Dukers, whose last known address is in Brighton East in Victoria, could not be contacted for comment.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：22/06/2009 2:12 AMCopy HTML

Reply to outaegypt (21/06/2009 17:26:48)

The Sun-Herald
Bankrupty saves Dukers

        One size fits all !!

..

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：27/06/2009 11:55 AMCopy HTML

 just wanted to mention a little something , matthew duker was never stood down as pastor by anyone he chose to stand down until all this is over,  so get it right or dont mention it at all :D

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：27/06/2009 11:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to teeeej (27/06/2009 05:55:42)

 just wanted to mention a little something , matthew duker was never stood down as pastor by anyone he chose to stand down until all this is over,  so get it right or dont mention it at all :D

Can you provide some tangible evidence of proof ???  The size of this iniquity now totally some $66 million, is some clear indication that this will not be "until all this is over" anytime too soon.. Especially with the media rumours of the Australian Federal Police now being involved ... Perhaps certain current Pastors of the RCI may also find themselves stuck up to their necks in very deep mire before it is all over.. 

But as to your comment, perhaps Mathew Duker was politely asked to step down in order to cover up any impropriety that may be observable by the rank and file members of the RCI... Commonly called: "damage control" !!

Metanoia

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/06/2009 3:56 AMCopy HTML

  just wanted to mention a little something , matthew duker was never
stood down as pastor by anyone he chose to stand down until all this is
over,  so get it right or dont mention it at all :D

Hi Teej

Isn't he a great bloke then? helping his bro' rip everyone off blind and then kindly withdrew his services as a Pastor... says more about the RCI "leadership" than anything else.

First of all... we were always told the Lord raises up the oversight.. what? did God have a bad day when he appointed the Dukers. Putting them up to be pastors is like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank!

I assume, from your post, that you are an apologist for the Dukers? Or perhaps another Revivalist Ostrich?

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/06/2009 4:35 AMCopy HTML

The Lord raises up the oversight? 

Piffle. Never believed it the whole 9 years I was in it. Just another old boy's club full of yes men. Wasn't rocket science to work out hardly any cared one iota for the people they were supposed to oversee. Pass me a bucket to throw up in.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：19/07/2009 12:57 PMCopy HTML

 tommo in response to your "I assume, from your post, that you are an apologist for the Dukers? Or perhaps another Revivalist Ostrich?"
 I know the dukers  yes  , but that is beside the point i dont know them well enough to make any judgments  i happen to believe in let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and also believe in the everyone is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law, thing this country has going for it you know.
 I am also a great believer in people telling something exactly how it is not taking little bits here and there to suit their purposes  as the media seems to do and lot of the posters here seem to do. 
It may take a while for the court proceedings to finish and if they are found guilty then so be it they are guilty if not then i am behind them all the way and am behind them all the way until the court proceedings have finished I wasnt there personaly as i can guarantee majority of you werent either when the supposed crime was committed so i cannot say one way or another  not sure that you people can realy either you just out baying for blood ......

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：19/07/2009 8:45 PMCopy HTML

Teeej, the Bible is VERY SPECIFIC of the need for ALL the members of the Body of Christ to exercise accountability and in particularly for those  in a position of Overseer to be WITHOUT REPROACH....  this thread is not after anyone's blood.. Have a read of 1 Cor.5:11  

Metanoia  

PS: "Now it is necessary also for a good testimony to have from those outside so that he may not fall into reproach and a trap of the devil.." - 1 Tim. 3:7 (my verbal translation)

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：19/07/2009 11:35 PMCopy HTML

 Teeej,

If you want to apply the "he who is without sin" bollocks then that would mean no-one can cast the first stone right? as according to your beliefs anyone without glossalia is a sinner. The laws of the land dictate that a "first stone", so to speak, must be cast in order to hold people accountable for their actions. 

As for supporting the Dukers until they are found guilty.... you are simply hiding behind a cop-out, A declaration of bankruptcy is virtually an admission of liability, all that needs to be determined is whether they EVER intended to pay anyone for borrowed monies. It is a fact, which is undisputed, that they borrowed money they could not repay... that is unethical and illegal.

As a revivalist, you seem unconcerned with the unethical behaviour of your Pastors when it comes to violation of decencies, forcing battered women back into abusive relationships, forcing teens to get married despite overwhelming evidence that the marriages dont last... the list goes on. It's only when something hits the front pages of the newspaper that you want to hide behing the "innocent until proven guilty" thing... So dont lecture me about what makes this country great.... I am well aware of that... I can tell you what doesnt make it great.... Despotic Pastors and the dim-wits who blindly follow them and their religious dogma to serve their own ends, wake up Teeej

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：23/09/2009 10:17 AMCopy HTML

Worshippers no more

The Mole understands that Glenn and Lorelei Duker no longer worship/fellowship at any of the Melbourne Assemblies.

Not sure whether they have been excluded or have withdrawn voluntarily.

Mole

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：25/09/2009 1:01 AMCopy HTML

Glenn was asked to leave after the report came through. It basically called him a lair. From what I know he told PS one thing and the report said another. PS was taking his word for it even though people were calling for his blood. PS told Glenn if there was any evidence brought to him that Glenn was in the wrong, he would be put out. When PS was shown the report it contradicted what Glenn has told PS so basically Glen shot himself in the foot. So as I have been made aware he was asked to leave. This was sometime ago now and he has not been fellowship at any RCI meetings. I am not sure about his wife, I imagine she is in the same boat.
 He was also told by PS to pay back the money he owns to people, he said he is trying too or can't becuase he has none...
Even when being ask to leave Glenn still said that he was innocent. Hopefully it will see trial and the whole mess will be seen to by a judge.

I have also heard that a lot of people are blaming PS for what has happened. I would like to see what reason that is and if the people who are blaming him know first hand what happened rather than hearsay. In a court room if you were not present at the words spoken it is called hearsay, so I would like to hear from people WHO were there.
I believe that no matter what PS did with this matter there are always people going to see that he is wrong.
In the long and the short of it ALL the people who dealt with Glenn Duker did it off there own back, NO one held a gun to there head and said sign here. If people are so stupid to sign there lives away without getting a lawyer/third party etc..etc.. opinion, that is their problem, NOT anyone elses.
And cry as much as you like you are still the person who signed it.
When PS was told about what was going on he rang people/pastors and told them to get out of it and not do this in the church. In the end it is still up to the individual to do the right thing.  

Alas I feel sorry for all the people who have been involved with the greedy character, he certianly lead quite a few people down the garden path, much like a lot of investors have trying to get peoples money.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：25/09/2009 5:13 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Rob.

To put matters simply, you haven't heard even one tenth of the facts of the matter. I'd suggest that Simon is far more complicit in what's taken place than you realise, and so my advice? Watch this space 

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 1:34 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian,

That could be true in what you say, But I would not bet on that. I think this thing is such a big mess that's why it will be good for the courts to sort it out.

I do have a question for you (or anyone for that matter) though, How was PS suppose to stop it Or how would have you handled it from the begining? I am not asking this to be sarcastic I am interested in how you think it should have been dealt with in the first place.

I know it is easy to criticize people in the way they deal with things or even to look back and go, "I would handle that this way or that way". But when it is something you haven't come across before it's a different matter. Now in saying that I am not defending anyone, simply because I was not there. and I don't like to listen to hearsay because you can then take sides to easily.
If it goes to court we will just have to see what the judge says, and whatever he says is fine with me, I hope it is the same for everyone else too.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 2:18 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Robb.

That could be true in what you say, But I would not bet on that. I think this thing is such a big mess that's why it will be good for the courts to sort it out. I'm sure you wouldn't bet on what I shared being true, but then again, I'd suggest that you're not particularly well-informed about the matter. As I've mentioned earlier, watch this space. 

I do have a question for you (or anyone for that matter) though, How was PS suppose to stop it Or how would have you handled it from the begining? I am not asking this to be sarcastic I am interested in how you think it should have been dealt with in the first place. Given that Simon was advised of the broad contours of the incident almost from the "get-go", one could rightly assume that he should have: (a) attempted to speak with all of the people concerned in the matter from the outset. He didn't. Furthermore, as the head of the RCI Simon should have, (b) attempted to gather sufficient information to reach an informed conclusion as to the likelihood of the claims being true. He didn't. And finally, that Simon should have, (c) done everything in his power to minimise the impact on all of the the people involved, and on the assembly as a whole. He didn't.  

I know it is easy to criticize people in the way they deal with things or even to look back and go, "I would handle that this way or that way". But when it is something you haven't come across before it's a different matter. Now in saying that I am not defending anyone, simply because I was not there. and I don't like to listen to hearsay because you can then take sides to easily. Indeed. But the fact remains that Simon was advised very early as to what was allegedly going on, and then from several sources (both within the RCI and without). In spite of this, he chose to sit on his hands. Given that Simon Longfield is paid to provide leadership within the RCI, a little leadership in this instance would probably have gone a long way.

If it goes to court we will just have to see what the judge says, and whatever he says is fine with me, I hope it is the same for everyone else too. From what I've been told, the only people who probably won't be happy with the eventual legal outcomes will be: Simon Longfield, Vic Samoilenko, the Dukers and their ever-dwindling band of supporters. One simply doesn't become embroiled in one of Australia's largest investment frauds and walk away, spot-free.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 2:41 AMCopy HTML

Given that Simon was advised of the broad contours of the incident almost from the "get-go", one could rightly assume that he should have: (a) attempted to speak with all of the people concerned in the matter from the outset. He didn't. Furthermore, as the head of the RCI Simon should have, (b) attempted to gather sufficient information to reach an informed conclusion as to the likelihood of the claims being true. He didn't. And finally, that Simon should have, (c) done everything in his power to minimise the impact on all of the the people involved, and on the assembly as a whole. He didn't.  

God forbid that adults shoud be ALLOWED to be adults. If anyone makes a poor financial decision, then the consequences of that decision fall in their lap, no one else's. They are the ones who chose to trust the person, why is it up to anyone else to do their research for them?

When will religious "leaders" (read pathological control freaks) wake up and let christians grow up and live their own lives, without their constant interference? More importantly when will these grown up children learn that they don't need to be parented by these idiots?

Lastly, when will human beings generally get over the blame game? Stuff happens, it is far more productive to put energy into fixing the mess instead of pointing the finger.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 3:01 AMCopy HTML

Agreed, people must be accountable for their choices, however, most of the simpletons in revival organisations (or broader christian groups for that matter) place a huge amount of trust in their leadership on a range of issues. It then follows that leadership/management, particularly those in paid positions have something of a duty to ensure the dealings in their church are legal.

I was always bemused by the hard and fast  RCI rule about no financial dealings with other church members.... Doesn't this imply that your fellow church members are not to be trusted. I have financial dealings with all sorts of people and manage to keep it all above board, why cant they?

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 3:26 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Thommo.

The issue in this instance, certainly insofar as the Courts are concerned; revolves around the fact that the Dukers engaged in their money-making schemes directly with their parishoners, with members of the "flock" whom they "groomed" specifically for the purpose of "fleecing". The fact of the very strong RCI pastor-congregant relationship, based as it is on an upwards focussed degree of implicit trust, led to the presumption that what took place was  perceived to be an abuse of spiritual authority.

However, insofar that Simon Longfield was aware that two men whom he credentialed as ministers of religion were actively engaging in dubious business dealings within the captive audience that is the RCI, but did nothing about it, is also an issue of concern. Of course the possibility that he perjured himself in his testimony to the Courts is a consideration as well, and time will no doubt tell on that particular issue. To summarise a little ancient Christian wisdom that we should always consider: 

"Flee with great haste from the Churchman who is also a businessman!" St. Jerome.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 4:02 AMCopy HTML

"Flee with great haste from the Churchman who is also a businessman!" St. Jerome.

Why?

Does the bible discourage parishioners from having business dealings with each other? If so what does this say abut Christians?

History would suggest that most churchmen/businessmen types do end up coming unstuck, isn't this simply a black mark against the whole religious edifice and the type of people who crave these positions of spiritual authority?

As for Simon Longfield, his published excuse of "I was too busy preaching the gospel" may cut the mustard with his parishioners but I suspect the courts are not going to buy that for one second.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 4:19 AMCopy HTML

If anyone makes a poor financial decision, then the consequences of that decision fall in their lap, no one else's. They are the ones who chose to trust the person, why is it up to anyone else to do their research for them?

Great idea. Let's start with removing the statutory capital reserve requirements imposed on Australian banks and follow up with disbanding the various government financial regulators. Pity we didn't do that before the "GFC". 

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 4:20 AMCopy HTML

Thommo,

In the context of St Jerome's quote, "Churchman" referred to a minister/pastor/priest. The issue was a divided loyalty: between God and his interests on the one hand, and Mammon and the financial interests of the pastor/businessman on the other.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：29/09/2009 5:37 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Fremde 

I wonder if  St Jerome would have liked me?

And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, "Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God." And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, "Then who can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God." (Mark 10:24 to 27 ESV)

I pray that God my Father, makes it so possible with me, for the scriptures also say.....

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life. (1 Timothy 6:17 to 19)

I think St Jerome may have been, in particular, speaking of those that saw the church as a place to do business to make gain from. This is anathema to me. I would rather do something for material at cost, and free labour, than to be accountable for usury and or extortion.

John

Hi John,

Have another look at the context of Mark 10:24 .... but theology aside, I agree with your last point and I suppose we could classify that what Simon got up to as a form of "Simony" 

... but he won't be able to buy his way out of this... anyway my prooftext for this occasion is "But the thing that Simon and Victor and Glenn and Mathew had done displeased the LORD. 2Sam: 11:27.  

Blessings John

Metanoia

...

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 12:38 AMCopy HTML

Hi Ian,
Just getting back to you on how you would have dealt with it. What you have added there seems very logical and would also be the way that I would assume most people would take.

"Given that Simon was advised of the broad contours of the incident almost from the "get-go", one could rightly assume that he should have: (a) attempted to speak with all of the people concerned in the matter from the outset. He didn't. Furthermore, as the head of the RCI Simon should have, (b) attempted to gather sufficient information to reach an informed conclusion as to the likelihood of the claims being true. He didn't. And finally, that Simon should have, (c) done everything in his power to minimise the impact on all of the the people involved, and on the assembly as a whole. He didn't."

This brings up more questions, the main one being "He Didn't".
How do YOU know that he didn't do these things?  any proof?
If Look at them in the order you have.
(a) How would you know who he has contacted and are you sure he never contacted anyone involved?
(b)What have you seen of this? Do you have proof of this?
(c) If PS got up and told everyone they must stop all this "inside trading" (my words, but you know what I mean), don't you think that this is a dictators role? I would imagine he would then have people on his back saying that he is trying to control peoples lives, and he is Hilter, the Rci are conrol freaks, etc...etc...etc (I think you get my meaning). Some of these people involved are smart, not stupid (well stupid to get involved if you ask me), wouldn't you think they would have the brains to see what was going on OR was it just greed on EVERYONES behalf? (this begs another question, do you throw them all out of the church because they are ALL greedy, because greed should not be apart of the church?)
Also did he say anything about it? I myself nerver heard him, but I am not invovled with it either.
Also where does the church stop? Do we go into peoples personal lives, thier pay packets, etc..etc.. and tell them what to do with thier money? I mean any church by the way, not just the RCI.
If a Priest,Minister,Pastor came up to you in your church and said "You are not allowed to work with him anymore because he is in the church", or "you must pay 10 percent tithes, because the bible says so". You would tell him to mind his own business or show him what the scriptures says about it, in your own words? Then what does he do, what YOU want him to do?

Still I am only interested in how you deal with something like this and when the oversite is crossing the line in peoples personal lives.
 

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 1:52 AMCopy HTML

 Hi Rob

(c) "If PS got up and told everyone they must stop all
this "inside trading" (my words, but you know what I mean), don't you
think that this is a dictators role? I would imagine he would then have
people on his back saying that he is trying to control peoples lives,
and he is Hilter, the Rci are conrol freaks, etc...etc...etc (I think
you get my meaning)"

Simon Longfield and other RCI oversight are happy to get up and tell people which concerts they may not attend, which music not to listen to. Church members are often told to disassociate with family members who have left RCI. Various church/young peoples activities are considered compulsory.... there even used to be a curfew imposed on younger people.... So, RCI is happy to impose all these restrictions but you say they should not get involved when church members are getting fleeced.... GIMME A BREAK!

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 3:02 AMCopy HTML

Good point Epi,

I guess the leaders involved wish they had not been involved now. I also imagine that the church has learn't a lesson in all of this?
This is why I also stated that if it goes to court that if people are found to be in the wrong and are punished, I am happy with that. If they are found to do no wrong I am happy with that too. BUT are all people going to be happy?
Now the "RCI pastor-congregant relationship" is something that I find interesting. Does this mean that people are too stupid to think for themselves? Were you too stupid?

I have seen the RCI change a lot over the years. I myself had problems with the way it was in the 90's, very very military style. I guess it use to "Mother" the people. But what I see now is that people think for themselves. Make there own decisions in life. If people need help they ask and are helped. You would not know this if you aren't involved. It not like how it use to be.
I guess the 90's may have been like the 40's ? who knows.
Yes there is some sort of guideline pages or something, I saw it years ago. But these from what I have been told are guidelines the are not some Bible bashing hammer. They are mearly encouragement on how to deal with certian situations. It is still up to the PERSON to follow them or not. 
Everyone has to live there life, hopefully they live it with God's ways on mind. And that we all strive to do what is right. If people break the Law of the Land, they deserve to be punished accordingly. I have no problem with that at all. If they break God's Law's it's the same result, expect the big fella with deal with them. If someone breaks God's Law that is between them and God, what have they done to me?

Rob.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 3:05 AMCopy HTML

 Hi XR

(c) "If PS got up and told everyone they must stop all
this "inside trading" (my words, but you know what I mean), don't you
think that this is a dictators role? I would imagine he would then have
people on his back saying that he is trying to control peoples lives,
and he is Hilter, the Rci are conrol freaks, etc...etc...etc (I think
you get my meaning)"

As an observer I must say I find this strawman either silly or highly disingenuous Ian didn't say that.

Apart from that you seem to forget that Simon has testified that he did not investigate reports (at least 2 or 3 witnesses!) of what proved to be highly unethical if not illegal business dealings by one of his pastors eg, promoting a business scheme as profitable when it is not and subsequently not using the assets they had to pay back as much debt as they could. As "senior pastor" he had a duty of care to investigate and point out the eternal consequences of such unXian behaviour to the Dukers. And of course as "senior pastor" he  had a duty of care to the other members of his flock to warn of, if not protect from, that unXian behavior, yet he chose to simply trust  Glenn and leave him in a pastoral office until the courts had exposed matters.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 3:14 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Rob.

Two things. First, I'm comfortable making the statements that I did because I have a detailed and first-hand understanding of the circumstances surrounding the matter. Second, the issue isn't now and never has been about a church figure "dictating terms" to the members of his or her congregation. The issue is that the Duker brothers were credentialed ministers in the RCI, and that they abused their positions of authority and trust in the pursuit of personal financial gain.  Simon Longfield, by virtue of his appointment as the head of the RCI, had a responsibility to ensure that any allegations of this sort were suitably investigated and dealt with. He didn't. Simon, quite simply, did not wish to become involved. By way of an analogy, what would you think of a senior minister who refused to investigate charges of sexual misconduct made against one (or several) of his pastors? 

I suppose what concerns me about your attempted defence of Simon is this: you hinge everything on the Courts closing and locking the door to the china shop after the bull has had his time rampaging therein, smashing things up. What of the fact that the Landlord was warned about the bull's proclivities when it was in the early stages of eying off the china? And that in spite of this, he chose to leave the door open anyway? Understand that good leadership is proactive in nature. Bad leadership, on the other hand, is strictly reactive. As the old adage goes: "... an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 3:34 AMCopy HTML

And of course as "senior pastor" he had a duty of care to the other members of his flock to warn of, if not protect from, that unXian behavior, yet he chose to simply trust  Glenn and leave him in a pastoral office until the courts had exposed matters.

A revival pastor with a duty of care, for anything, ever????????  ROFLMFAO 

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 4:54 AMCopy HTML

Hi all,

Sorry to disappoint you Talmid, But It would be unwise on me to judge PS if I was not there. I have not seen the evidence. Maybe Ian has? Which  maybe is his reason for being 100 percent sure?
It looks as though you would not be happy if a Judge found no fault with PS, Ian? This is what I gather from your post, correct me if I am wrong. If so why would you be? And no this is not in defence of anyone, Why you take it like that is probably because I have not said I beleve PS is wrong, but then again I do not say he is right either.
It just that I have not seen any evidence put forword here, yet anyway. Sure I saw the Today Tonight video, but would you believe everything Today Tonight says?
What I do know is that Glen is not a pastor anymore and has not been for quite some time. Also he has been put out.
Has anyone here asked PS about what has happened?

Rob.
 

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 5:05 AMCopy HTML

Robb,

You assume a great deal, but apparently know very little about the matter. Perhaps, then, you should wait until you are better informed before commenting further?

Blessings,

Ian

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 5:07 AMCopy HTML

Hi Tommo,

I forgot to mention too,
With some of your comments about not being allowed to do this as that,
Music = I listen to Megadeath (just to name one), they are a favourite band of mine from the 90's metal era. I have never been told not to listen to them (I even once was asked from the platform what I listen to and said "Megadeath"), Or any of the other music I listen to.
I also know people in the RCI who TALK,VISIT, and STAY over at families places that are out of fellowship or have left, and have been doing so for years! So I am not sure where you get that from. If someone told me I couldn't see a family member because they don't go to my church I would have a few words of "encouragement" for them.
Young peoples was great, I enjoyed it, I had lots of fun time with all the kids in there. Yes there were times I didn't go, and I don't ever remember being told off for not going or put out or whatever you are saying. Also to my knowledge there is no curfew for young people unless it is by there parents.
Maybe the church you went to had a friut bat up the front?

Rob.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 5:13 AMCopy HTML

Yes Ian you may be right, But I have also talked to people who are involved in it and they gave me their side of the story.
I would like to know where the proof is though, that is all I am asking. 
No Ian I don't assume a lot, why do you think I am asking? I am not going to find out if I don't ask.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 11:23 PMCopy HTML

 Hi Rob

Yes I did go to a church with a fruit bat up front, his name was Lloyd, after a while another fruit bat turned up his name was Simon. 26 years in RCI, don't bother telling me about the on-the-record rhetoric and hyperbole that comes from the platform. A lot of the rules and regulations are delivered behind closed doors and enforced by the group culture. In your posts you use a lot of the platitudes I used to hear at RCI, I note you use the word "encourage" a lot, That is an RCI'ism for "enforce our culture".

Yes I did ask Simon Longfield to explain to me the Duker situation and his involvement, he simply denied any wrong doing and told me he was "Waiting for the umpire's decision", whatever that means.

If you want specific examples of the appalling treatment of people I can give them, I am loathe to name names as the people involved may well be observers/contributors to this forum and have been hurt enough without dredging up the past.

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Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：30/09/2009 11:40 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Thommo.

Try not to take Rob's comments personally, he's several states removed from the "action".

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Rank：Rookier
Score：1640
Posts：82
From：Australia
Register：06/10/2008 5:55 AM

Re：Rci pastor has been uncovered

Date Posted：01/10/2009 12:04 AMCopy HTML

Good point Ian

Sometimes I find myself having a shoot-from-the-hip reaction to revival peddlers.... I guess it makes an interesting point about the impact my RCI involvement has had on me from birth 'till 25 is a formative part of ones' life. 10 years on and despite the fact I live in blissful happiness I can still have a mildly aggressive reaction to people extolling the "virtues"of the place.

I suspect that things may have changed a little in those 10 years, however, given that the doctrine is as dodgey as you and others have proven it to be, it is unlikely to experience any sort of positive trend.

T