Hi Jimbo,I go into that website myself. You have to be very careful what you say. If not, well, they shoot you down in flames. One user, Godzchik was kicked out because of her contentious views. It was felt she was stirring the pot a little to much. I am a registered user, but I feel that my privacy is very important, so I will probably be asked to leave. Maybe this is God telling me something!!  BTW, my user name is Finn. I was also asked to leave at one stage, and was booted off, but after I asked the administrator why, he replied that my views were not in line with theirs. All I asked was whether they affliated with churches like AOG. Anyway, you can look at my old posts if you like.

I gather that you do not go to the RF?

Yes I was asked to leave because I argued too much. LOL  They have so many double standards.  They started up a new rule about not debating and yet they still wanted to debate with me.  When I said that I was going to respect the site rules and not debate - I was still debated with then *I* was the one kicked off? 

Hmmmmmm

You probably will LOL.  What did they say about me after I left?  Did they leave my posts there?  I kinda wanted my posts to stay there so that if there's anyone questioning then they could read my posts. 

They really didn't like my 'Is eternal life really eternal' thread did they LOL  That's because eternal life is eternal that's why it's called eternal life ....and they can't argue with that  DESPITE all their fear mongering about losing one's salvation for being a bad little girl or boy LOL

Hi Finn and Godzchick. I used to love reading your posts on the TAJ site. I hoped to see some respect for us outsiders but it all seems to have vanished when they just wanted to talk amongst themselves. The youngies don't see how legalistic and un-scriptural their organisation is.

I was in both the RCI and the RF and have many family members still there (that's another reason I didn't want to reveal my true name there). I got into an "discussion" with the Fresno pastor (regarding the bible college thing you mentioned Finn) and he bit. Now I can confirm what I've heard about them being a hard, strict leadership in the USA. He seemed to put himself above reproach. 

I know loads of current RF people who read this site. I wonder if they also realise that they are still being kept under secret surveilance by their leadership? I know for a fact that the Melb pastors keep tabs on their youngies (why weren't you at church/function...etc) and it is all done under the guise of caring. It's really none of their business what they do with their personal time, but they seemed to have convinced them all to give their free time away to RF church events -- at the expense of non-church members relationships.

I, too, was very deeply hurt by the church and some people there. Since it was all I ever knew for my entire life, it is still terribly hard to let go of the grief. I know quite a few of the people who have posted on here and it goes to show how much pain and anger we harbour. I know this will forever be a pain in my heart. I'd dearly love to see my family members free of the mind-set of the Revival Fellowship.

I go to a fab church now and have so many REAL friends there, the joy of it makes me cry! We sing Hillsong and other stuff and I do not miss the "stand still, hands down and clap" choruses. I get so much out of the sermons and I'm glad God pointed me there.

See ya!

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I know this will forever be a pain in my heart. I'd dearly love to see my family members free of the mind-set of the Revival Fellowship.

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Yes there will be pain but God can turn it around for good.  Through the sufferings you have endured, you can become strenthened and a powerful comrade.  He uses his people in different ways.  For us who have suffered, he uses to reach others who have also suffered so it is not for naught!  Rejoice in your sufferings as it changes and refines you into the person you have become. 

My family is also still in the RF and I pray that my life will be a testament to them and that one day their eyes will be opened so they can see who Jesus really is and what salvation is all about.

You sound a little confused as to whether they have their own opinions or not.

"Everything is backed up by scripture" - hmmm, I wonder if there isn't a church that doesn't think everything they do is backed up by scripture?

It can't be denied? Sounds like they are the perfect people then, eh? I hope you don't mind if someone dares deny it? Tough for you if you do. Keep busy though, you won't have time to think about it... just get 'em wet and ramblin'.

Reply to : Anonymous

...what they were talking about to be straight from the bible and that they themselves did not have there own opinions...   ...everybody naturally has there own opinion when it comes to one thing or another but everything these people have said has been backed up by scripture and this cannot be denied... There is nobody alive on earth who can be the perfect person

What the hell is wrong with all of you... maybe it is different in america, but here in australia, it is a perfect fellowship. There are rules which is fair enough, but you all just dont see the vision. the revival fellowship is based on the doctrine set out by the bible, not by man. no one around here has the same problems as all of you...

so anyway. good luck when you die... hope you go to hell

well atleast what i have heard about and seen of the revival fellowship it is nothing like what you are all talking about. i have been to a few meetings myself... and i am thinking of going back now that it is a new year. i will decide for myself firsthand

Listen here little child. Do not discount other peoples experiences. You are talking to people who have spent years, decades and even their entire lives living under the thumb of the Revival Centres and then the spin-off group, the Revival Fellowship.  Hello! The majority of posters are all ex- Australian Revival groups.

Don' t take these stories lightly. You may live your entire spiritual life in the RF ignorant of the real reason why people leave and are unhappy there. Stop living in the bubble.

Please define the perfect fellowship. I wasn't aware that any church could be perfect -- especially since it isn't laid out in the bible.......  And tell me what this "vision" is.  Or is it a bit secret and not for the big bad world to share?

It's not very nice (or very Christian) of you to say "go to hell" now, is it?  Jesus preached LOVE . You sound a lot like some of the misguided teenagers I see who post here occasionally who get all righteously angry when someone bags "their" church.  Are you aware that the vast majority of these "rules" you mention are not supported by any scripture in God's bible?

By all means decide for yourself firsthand. If you are soooo happy there, ask yourself  why you are posting here. Or even looking at this site.

In fact, why do so many RF supporters get on this site to post? What are you so afraid of that you need to sneak a peek? If you say that you are content in your church, what is your problem with us? We are trying to provide a support system for people with the same abuse experience.   

Take the plank out of your eye first. OOH. That sounds an awful lot like a scripture I know...... 

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Listen here little child. Do not discount other peoples experiences. You are talking to people who have spent years, decades and even their entire lives living under the thumb of the Revival Centres and then the spin-off group, the Revival Fellowship. Hello! The majority of posters are allex- Australian Revival groups.Don' t take these stories lightly. You may live your entire spiritual lifein the RFignorant of the real reason why people leave and are unhappy there. Stop living in the bubble.Please define the perfect fellowship. I wasn't aware that any church could be perfect -- especially since it isn't laid out in the bible....... And tell me whatthis "vision" is. Or is it a bit secret and not for the big bad world to share?It's not very nice (or very Christian) of you to say "go to

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Reply to : Anonymous

Sorry, that last stuff up was mine. Very well said Jimbo, that was a good post.

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What is this RF Youngies site that youre talking about? Do you have the URL?

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Ahhh tongues, the benefits aren't really all that great guys. If I was to follow your lead and let personal ?experience' of what this gift achieves be my guide, then I'd have to suggest that the gift of ?tongues' quite often makes a person (1) proud, (2) quarrelsome, (3) prone to spiritual arrogance, (4) incapable of charity, (5) restricts his/her capacity to read Scripture in context, and (6) promotes spiritual immaturity.

It's a wonder how RF people could ever have a positive experience when witnessing, especially if the potential ?convert' has a reasonable grasp of Scripture. It seems to me that the minute someone says to you fellows ?not so', and then demonstrates why it's ?not so', you guys go straight for the jugular with the ?oh, you're clearly a spiritually cold back-slider' routine. It really does present that you guys are more comfortable at attacking people than you are issues.

- (Ian quote)

Hi guys,

i stumbled upon this website by accident, but was kinda shocked about what I read! I have been to the RF in Australia, and I have never seen a more caring, happy and unified group of people! You stated that choruses are

Holyand Sinful: You said: Everything is backed up by scripture" - hmmm, I wonder if there isn't a church that doesn't think everything they do is backed up by scripture?

well look at, for example, churches that Christen babies. that does not appear in the bible at all! a lot of churches do things that are not in the bible! But I've found that everything the RF does is fully backed up by scriptures.

I have never heard anyone say from the RF that they are the only true church! Never! They acknowledge that there are other people in other groups that are following God in the true way. And some of the 'cult' rules of control you all speak about are actually from bible examples. For example, being 'put out' of a church for sinning is a bible initiative and not one exclusive to the RF. If the RF is living strictly by bible standards, what is the problem?

Yes, people get offended and hurt, and I don't know any church that doesn't have such problems, because we are all still human. Jesus tells us to forgive our brother Seventy X seven times! so holding grudges is not following God's will.

I recently went to their Youngies Camp in Sydney, and 300+ youngies were all happy, excited and praising the lord! They weren't living in subjection and under dictatorship. The pastors listen to the youngies, and the youngies there run the meetings all the time!! All of you who have 'grown up' in this church know deep down that whilst you were a memeber you did not feel in bondage and you DID have fun in the church (especially in their young people's group!!) you have let your bitter feelings and grudges drive you, and God wants you to forgive and move on. As for Hillsong, many of our churches sing their songs too!! You are all using your bitterness to blind you from the truth, and picking on non-salvational issues to make other churches seem wrong!!

anyway, everyone can have their own opinions. But I think the people there are really good, and live according to the Bible. If they seem a bit on the stricter side of life, who cares? it is better to be on the conservative side than skating on the edge of temptations. God called us to come out and be separate from this world. And that's what they do!

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 Holyand Sinful: You said: Everything is backed up by scripture" - hmmm, I wonder if there isn't a church that doesn't think everything they do is backed up by scripture? well look at, for example, churches that Christen babies. that does not appear in the bible at all! a lot of churches do things that are not in the bible! But I've found that everything the RF does is fully backed up by scriptures.

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Just like Revival allude to tongues by reading between the lines... so can a church who want to baptise infants.

The Bible and Christian Family Baptism

We do not pretend that indiscriminate infant baptism can be defended from scripture, however we advance the following lines of evidence from scripture in support of the baptism of children from Christian families, whilst accepting that there is no watertight case (please pardon the pun) from scripture either for or against the practise. Here goes, then, with our biblical reasons:

1. The two signs (or sacraments) of the old covenant, circumcision and Passover, were administered to the children of believing families and there is sufficient continuity between the two covenants (see Romans 4, Colossians 2.9-15) to suggest that the signs of the new covenant might properly be given to children of Christian families. In the case of circumcision, the rite of initiation into the privileges of the Old covenant, a specific link with baptism is made in Colossians 2.9-12.

2. In the book of Acts, whole families or households were baptised (Acts 16.15, 16.33)

3. Gospel preaching in Acts that includes baptism as a response specifically includes children (Acts 2.39). See also Paul's exhortation to the Philippian jailer (Acts 16.31).

Holyandsinful: You said: Just like Revival allude to tongues by reading between the lines... so can a church who want to baptise infants.

This is incorrect! Acts 2 talks of the Day of Pentecost. And says that they all "began to speak with new tounges", Mark 15 says that "these sign SHALL follow believers ... they shall speak in other tounges":. Corinthinans 12 talks about praying in the Spirit AND in the Understanding. How can someone do this without speaking in tounges? There is no reading between the lines there! And indeed, millions of people around the world (not just in the TR), speak in tounges!! Anyone who denies this needs to pray for the Holy Spirit, and ask for the TRUE way - without being influenced by any doctrine. People forget that God is still here, watching everything that is going on. So just ask Him to prove it, and He will!!! Or if people say 'speaking in tounges is not for everyone'... well why isn't it??

 People too often take scriptures and twist them to make them 'inclusive' and 'accessible' to everyone. We know God is a loving, caring God, but He is also ready to take vengance in due time. It says that Jesus came not to bring happy happy la la peace, but to divide people with a two edged sword those who are for or against Him. People make God out to be a god who will save anybody for just being good., but the bible shows time and time again that if you don't do things His way, you will be punished. (King Saul, Nebechunezzar, Saphira and Aniniahs -they died because they withheld money from the Church!!) Simple. Whether it be now or on the Judgement Day.  For example, How can some churches say that homosexuality is OK, when it explicitly says in the bible that it is "AN ABOMINATION" in the eyes of God. People are making up all sorts of wishy-washy trash to make everyone feel accepted by God. Read the Bible. This is NOT the case!

Jesus was baptised fully under the water. . His mother believed in God, and yet he was not christend. He is our example. sure, kids getting baptised is great. I was baptised when 12, and I have friends who were baptised at a younger age still. But this should happen because THEY are making the move of faith to God, and not because of the parents. The Old Testament laws have passed away with the coming of Jesus, hense why the disciples preached to the uncirumsised Gentiles. They had been shown that the old laws of Circumcision were of no consequence because Jesus came to save all nations. Israel had their chance, but kept rebelling against His laws.

(sorry for the long post!)

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Holyandsinful: You said: Just like Revival allude to tongues by reading between the lines... so can a church who want to baptise infants.This is incorrect!

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Hoo boy... here we go again. I think this has been covered very well in another thread just recently - click  HERE if you're interested. I doubt you are though...

I'm not going to argue with people who I know aren't going to listen and it's all been said and debated here before on many other threads... read them if you like. This is a thread for ex-revival members... If you're an ex-revival member who loves speaking in tongues then please feel free and tell us your story and your love for free vocalisation that no man understandeth.

Hi everyone! I've just read all of these posts!

Holyandsinful (interesting name by the way!) it is funny that you simply give up when you have hit a wall, you obviously don't have the true vision.  Everything the last person said is from the Bible and not exclusive to the 'Revival Fellowship'. Do you think God likes you bagging his people? i think not.

but if you 'ex-revival' members are happy gossiping and backstabbing other brothers and sisters, then that is between you and God. Just forgive the people that have done you wrong. Show you are the better person and explore what really matters- that is God and His Word.

Reply to : Anonymous

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millions of people around the world (not just in the TR), speak in tounges!! Anyone who denies this needs to pray for the Holy Spirit, and ask for the TRUE way - without being influenced by any doctrine. People forget that God is still here, watching everything that is going on. So just ask Him to prove it, and He will!!! Or if people say 'speaking in tounges is not for everyone'... well why isn't it??

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Millions of people around the world speak in tongues? Heck yeah, I think everyone has glossolated at some time in their life. Free vocalised ramble that no man understands is what usually comes out of a politician's mouth. Gibberish is a normal ability we all have... most stop when they get a grasp of language at about 3 years of age or so. A lot of kids in my classroom can speak Double Dutch.

Millions of people ask for truth as well. In your case, you are extremely influenced by a doctrine. Ask God to prove it? Does God take 'double dares'? I know of lots of people who dared and asked and knocked for ages to be able to speak in tongues. They left after a while thinking God rejected them. I suppose you'd say they didn't have enough faith, but it shouldn't take much for a free gift should it? Unless their is a price? But wasn't that paid for us already? Hmmm

Speaking in tongues is not for everyone... some people aren't that gullible. If you are thirsty for knowledge check out http://rc.cultweb.net - if you want to argue and defend your bloody doctrine with someone who doesn't care, go doorknocking your neighbours. They'll love that (don't go too early or during dinner).

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Everything the last person said is from the Bible and not exclusive to the 'Revival Fellowship'. Do you think God likes you bagging his people? i think not.but if you 'ex-revival' members are happy gossiping and backstabbing other brothers and sisters, then that is between you and God. Just forgive the people that have done you wrong. Show you are the better person and explore what really matters- that is God and His Word.

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Amazing. What did you expect in an ex-Revival forum (umm, not everyone is like me - whew!). Stop fellowshipping here with the unequally yoked and find a forum where you can backstab Catholics, baptists and all those who aren't Revival. (I'll keep that last bit there) We used to love doing that in our Revival branceh.

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Amazing. What did you expect in an ex-Revival forum. Stop fellowshipping here with the unequally yoked and find a forum where you can backstap Catholics, baptists and all those who aren't Revival. sheesh...

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I want to respond to this post in detail.

"i stumbled upon this website by accident, but was kinda shocked about what I read! I have been to the RF in Australia, and I have never seen a more caring, happy and unified group of people!"

First, from this it seems you were a visitor to the RF in Australia and not a member for any length of time so you cannot know the affect of the brainwashing that goes on there.

Holyand Sinful: You said: Everything is backed up by scripture" - hmmm, I wonder if there isn't a church that doesn't think everything they do is backed up by scripture?

"well look at, for example, churches that Christen babies. that does not appear in the bible at all! a lot of churches do things that are not in the bible! But I've found that everything the RF does is fully backed up by scriptures"

Scriptures are used to back everything said but they are twisted to the pre-programmed beliefs of the RF/RCI.  Any scripture is open to interpretation.  You need to study scripture under the leading of the Holy Spirit and not under the dictation of the RF leadership.

"I have never heard anyone say from the RF that they are the only true church! Never! They acknowledge that there are other people in other groups that are following God in the true way. "

The RF/RCI will always aknowledge they are not the one true church but with the added "But we have never found one yet that has our understanding etc."  So leaving the gullible member to be satisfied that they are in the only true church.  The truth is that there is only one Body of Christ and no one can put anyone else out of it.

"And some of the 'cult' rules of control you all speak about are actually from bible examples. For example, being 'put out' of a church for sinning is a bible initiative and not one exclusive to the RF. If the RF is living strictly by bible standards, what is the problem?"

Again, this is RF/RCI interpretation of scripture.  Jesus said that if the various steps to reconcile a brother at fault have failed we should treat him as a heathen man and a publican and you take that to mean throw him out of the church.  However, Jesus spent His time with heathens and publicans and it can be interpreted that we are then to treat fallen brothers as unsaved people and so continue to try to save them through our concernm and Christian love.  You see how the interpretations can be opposite.  You have just believed the RF/RCI interpretationms at face value - as I did for 23 years.

"Yes, people get offended and hurt, and I don't know any church that doesn't have such problems, because we are all still human. Jesus tells us to forgive our brother Seventy X seven times! so holding grudges is not following God's will."

I agree with you here, but you show by your inconsistency that you lack wisdom.  How can you forgive them 70 x70 times if you throw them out of the church.  Read the list of sins in Galations 5 and then see how in Galations 6 we are told to restore those overtaken by these sins.  How can we restore them whilst keeping them out of the church and shunning them?  Why does the RF/RCI hold grudges against us?

"I recently went to their Youngies Camp in Sydney, and 300+ youngies were all happy, excited and praising the lord! They weren't living in subjection and under dictatorship. The pastors listen to the youngies, and the youngies there run the meetings all the time!!

All of you who have 'grown up' in this church know deep down that whilst you were a memeber you did not feel in bondage and you DID have fun in the church (especially in their young people's group!!) "

You have no grounds to make this statement.  Do you know every single ex member's situstion.  My own children were treated dismally by the oversight and the young people in the UK.  And many of the oversight and YP were Australians. 

"you have let your bitter feelings and grudges drive you, and God wants you to forgive and move on. As for Hillsong, many of our churches sing their songs too!! You are all using your bitterness to blind you from the truth, and picking "

It is an easy cop out for all you that are still under the influence of the cult to say to us survivers that we are bitter and need to move on.  You teach that there is no hope outside of your fellowship and yet you won't let us fellowship with you.  How then can you tell us to move on.  You are control freaks and you are still trying to control what we say even though you have discarded us.  How dare you tell us to forgive you when you will not forgive us!  We are not wallowing in bitterness.  We are trying to make sense of the madness we endured, some of us for many years; and we are trying to be a lifeboat to others who are in danger of drowning.  One day, when you also have been severely hurt by this cult you may want someone like us to turn to for genuine help.

1.       The feeling that you have when you pray with somebody and they receive the spirit and speak in tongues:

Seeing that you used to be in the RCI or RF you may well know and cannot deny that when you are praying with somebody and they receive you can feel the spirit moving, you can feel the spirit leaping for joy. There is no other greater experience on earth! It gives you an exhilaration greater then the best roller coaster and an excitement that lasts for days and days! If somebody was to just speak gibberish and not really be speaking in tongues all they are fooling is them selves and when we pray with them to receive we would definitely not get this feeling of the spirit moving inside of us!

That feeling is euphoria and is a scientific process of bodily fluids such as endorphins and adrenalin pumping through the system when excited. I've heard of people that have orgasms that last for days too. I don't believe them either. Like the feeling you get when you've had a baby or when your home team wins... Listen you vulcans... they're called emotions... emotions...

2.       Healings and Miracles

I've been healed Warts over night (after having prayer the next morning I woke up and they were all gone), I've been healed instantly of Asthma and of Ecthyma. 2 of my friends have been healed of cancer!!! That can only be the Lord!

Every belief system reports miraculous healings. I've never witnessed one myself, so I will have to take your word for it - more power to ya, that must be great. I saw most of my very God loving friends who had cancer (and family too) die - prayer and fasts didn't seem to work. How much starvation does it take to get God to take notice and listen?

3.       Provisions

The Job I am in at the moment (working for Santos as a Geological Technician) I could never have got if not for the Lord! In-fact I didn't even know that this job existed! The Lord led me through my schooling, got me into a great TAFE course and blessed me the whole way along. The Lord got me this job before I knew I even wanted it!

I can certainly say that's how all my jobs felt when I got them. Why not give yourself some credit. You deserve the job you have and you took the opportunity when it became available. But God is so modest, He won't send you a card and say "it was ME". Most people give him credit for their fortunes (and misfortunes) whether it was him or not.

What was it about the RF that made you turn away and try to find fault in the things in the bible? Or sow doubt into people of the RF? Why can you not see that speaking in tongues is imperative, it is a sign, a receipt, a stamp on us the Lord has given.

No, tongues is an unmiraculous thing... it truly amazes me that people can ramble in this free vocalisation akin to jazz music ad lib and call it a miracle. I even taught myself to believe it too. It's a mouth moving and random sounds coming out of it without syntax or any logical structure. Babies can do it... mental patients can do it. We don't need a receipt and certainly none as lame as speaking gibberish.

And you still haven't answered a lot of my questions I put to you. Have you prayed for people to be healed for instance?

Never prayed and seen an instant healing... sometimes people would come back a week later and say their flu was gone.. praise the Lord.. ummm.. right. of course it's gone. It's been a week.

And do you speak in tongues or did you and now you deny it as "gibberish"?

No I speak to the lord in my actions... i worship him by living... tongues is a good mantra during meditatory prayer... i could go for that. but the lord can hears my prayers before i say them... I'll let him read my thoughts because my groanings cannot be uttered.

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what post were you replying to, H&S.?

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Reply to : meg36what post were you replying to, H&S.?That one was e-mailed into me...

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glossolalia

Glossolalia is fabricated, meaningless speech.

According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, 

glossolalia consists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly .... Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language (Nickell, 108).

When spoken by schizophrenics, glossolalia are recognized as gibberish. In charismatic Christian communities glossolalia is sacred and referred to as "speaking in tongues" or having "the gift of tongues." In Acts of the Apostles, tongues of fire are described as alighting on the Apostles, filling them with the Holy Spirit. Allegedly, this allowed the Apostles to speak in their own language but be understood by foreigners from several nations. Glossolalics, on the other hand, speak in a foreign language and are understood by nobody.

Glossolalics behave in various ways, depending upon the social expectations of their community. Some go into convulsions or lose consciousness; others are less dramatic. Some seem to go into a trance; some claim to have amnesia of their speaking in tongues. All believe they are possessed by the Holy Spirit and the gibberish they utter is meaningful. However, only one with faith and the gift of interpretation is capable of figuring out the meaning of the meaningless utterances. Of course, this belief gives the interpreter unchecked leeway in "translating" the meaningless utterances. Nicholas Spanos notes: "Typically, the interpretation supports the central tenets of the religious community" (Spanos, 147).

Uttering gibberish that is interpreted as profound mystical insight by holy men is an ancient practice. In Greece, even the priest of Apollo, god of light, engaged in prophetic babbling. The ancient Israelites did it. So did the Jansenists, the Quakers, the Methodists, and the Shakers.

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Reply to : HolyandSinfulReply to : meg36what post were you replying to, H&S.?That one was e-mailed into me...glossolaliaGlossolalia is fabricated, meaningless speech.According to Dr. William T. Samarin, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto,glossolaliaconsists of strings of meaningless syllables made up of sounds taken from those familiar to the speaker and put together more or less haphazardly .... Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language(Nickell

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What an interesting post. It always used to amaze me how during the 'gifts' in the meeting someone would speak in tongues very briefly, perhaps a young or less confident person, and the interpretation would go on for ages and ages.

Other interesting things that made me question the validity of the 'voice gifts' was when the same brown noser would always say 'Thus sayeth the Lord, always obey your pastor etc" and then just after the split every RCI interpretation/prophesy was about how the people who stayed were justified and 'right' in the eyes of the Lord. My friends in RF told me that their gifts were the opposite ie 'come out from among them, forgiveness etc.' How could the same God give two opposite messages via His spirit? Sounds like stuff that was being made up by the speakers.

And most of us know that if you said the wrong thing during the 'gifts' you were hauled over the coals by the powers that be. One must toe the party line! So much for being a genuine message from God.

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Other interesting things that made me question the validity of the 'voice gifts' was when the same brown noser would always say 'Thus sayeth the Lord, always obey your pastor etc" and then just after the split every RCI interpretation/prophesy was about how the people who stayed were justified and 'right' in the eyes of the Lord. My friends in RF told me that their gifts were the opposite ie 'come out from among them, forgiveness etc.' How could the same God give two opposite messages via His spirit? Sounds like stuff that was being made up by the speakers.

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A little bit of logic unravels the whole 'gifts' ritual very quickly. ie. The two or three tongue messages TO the Lord are interpreted as messages FROM the Lord. The interpretations are completely similar to the two or three prophesies that come afterward... and are not prophetic at all.

Many Revivalists claim the miracle of the gifts because the one they were about to blurt out had a similar message to the one that got in first. This isn't surprising considering everyone in the community has been listening to the same talks, and talking in the same circles... not to mention the mathematical coincidence and cluster effect that there are only so many topics commonly used and that every now and again someone is going to beat you to the punch with a similar message.

See Tongues and the spiritual gifts - two at the most three for more.

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This is incorrect! Acts 2 talks of the Day of Pentecost. And says that they all "began to speak with new tounges", Mark 15 says that "these sign SHALL follow believers ... they shall speak in other tounges":. Corinthinans 12 talks about praying in the Spirit AND in the Understanding. How can someone do this without speaking in tounges? There is no reading between the lines there!

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It's in 1 Cor 14 actually... the entire emphasis of that chapter was about how to expound the word of God prophetically, where all can be edified by understanding clearly what the speaker or the person praying publicly is saying!  "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people,  but even then they will not listen to me," ^1Cor14 - it was a simple message of using your own language and the foreign one you might have. It was not an uncommon thing to speak more than one language. It still isn't!

Will get back to the rest of your rant another time.

Reply to : Finn/Godzchick

Hi guys

A friend of mine told me that the Youngies webpage booted Ian Thomason off over the weekend and deleted all his posts. Did you guys get to see what he wrote and can let me know what all the fuss was about? She won't tell me the goss coz she reckons it might get her in trouble with the oversight.

Ta

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Finn here. Yep its true, his posts were deleted. He was talking about the usual stuff that makes the RFers very wary, ie, tongues etc. He was very polite, and putting his views across sensibly, but they didn't like it.

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Finn

Thanks. The RF doesn't like sensible and apparently doesn't like people who can argue against their doctrine sensibly either.

Thanks again.

Well Obviously there is no point continuing this conversation considering we both seem to be strong in our different beliefs, but there are just a few things I will say.Tongues is written in the bible so even "if" everybody didn't have to have them as a sign of receiving they were in the bible and people did speak it so it cannot be denied that they existed otherwise you are denying the bible.

To quote a line from Dumbledore that came to mind while watching Harry Potter and TGoF - "Though we may come from different places, speak different tongues, our hearts beat as one." Of course people speak in different tongues and in that part of the world, at the time of the apostles, it was an important barrier to overcome when spreading the gospel of Christ.

Also I find it interesting that you have said "Why not give yourself some credit. You deserve the job you have and you took the opportunity when it became available." I can understand how you (not experiencing this situation as I did) may find it hard to believe that God is linked to it in any way but the job that I am in now I could never have obtained without the Lord. In everything I do I give thanks to the Lord, it doesn't matter if he did something or didn't, he gave his son on the cross that we could have eternal life he deserves all the thanks we can give about everything!

How many thank yous does he need anyway? Everyone has different stories and ideas about when they personally felt saved. Some try and categorise it as a moment in time, but as can be seen... healing and provision is metered out very differently to everyone.

As for "That feeling is euphoria and is a scientific process of bodily fluids such as endorphins and adrenalin pumping through the system when excited." Considering you have never done this (Prayed for somebody to receive the Holy Spirit) there is also no reason you should understand it, I have been on Huge rollercoaster's, I have witnessed childbirth I have seen people healed, all of these are forms of euphoria and excitement but they are a completely different feeling then when you pray for somebody to receive the spirit. This is something I can obviously not explain considering your opinions on speaking in tongues.

Yes, I was a houseleader for many years and during that time prayed for many people to speak in tongues (oops, I mean, receive the Spirit). I never felt the feeling at any of those times to be better than any spurt of bodily fluids... umm... but if it's better than that, then it's my loss and kudos to you. I think adding another number to your church somehow validates the crazy doctrines and you feel a little less lonely. I suppose you feel as if you have saved someone from an eternity of hell by persuading them to do the vocal lakookoracha and you get a high from that idea. I dunno... It is nice to feel that you've saved someone's life. During a bush hike my friends and I rescued someone who would definitely be dead now if we hadn't been there. It's a amazing feeling.

It saddens me that we cannot see eye to eye on this situation and probably never will considering how strong of will we both are. And it saddens me further that according to what I have read in the bible your salvation is based on very little.

Please, don't be sad. My salvation is based on something very little indeed... it's about the size of a mustard seed, in fact.

These conversations have not been in vain and have served a good purpose none the less. I am always willing to learn and hear different perspectives on situations and also people's different experiences in life. It helps me to grow and redefine my life so that I may know the real truth better. If you think of it as looking at a mountain from above. You can see there is a mountain there but not the height, only the width of the mountain. It is not until you get a few different perspectives on the mountain until you can see how large the mountain really is (height and width).

Different perspectives, but from the same vantage point. Imagine if you find out the mountain is actually a volcano.

Click to vote!

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Well Obviously there is no point continuing this conversation considering we both seem to be strong in our different beliefs, but there are just a few things I will say.Tongues is written in the bible so even "if" everybody didn't have to have them as a sign of receiving they were in the bible and people did speak it so it cannot be denied that they existed otherwise you are denying the bible.T

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"Please, don't be sad. My salvation is based on something very little indeed... it's about the size of a mustard seed, in fact."

WOW, thats one of the best reply's i ever heard, so simply, but oh so DEEP!!!

Why were the tongues confused at the Tower of Babel?

Prior to the building of the Tower of Babel, which was approximately 100 years after the flood, the people of the earth spoke one language (Gn. 11:1). When the men of the earth began to build the tower without divine specifications and also to make a name for themselves, Yahweh said: "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech (Gn.11:7)."

They couldn't finish building the tower because they couldn't understand each other's language. This is how mankind began to speak various languages or tongues. Thus, the day of Pentecost is, in reality, the reversal of tongues that previously were confused at the Tower of Babel. At Pentecost men once again began to understand one another form a spiritual sense.

Did the Messiah speak in tongues in His ministry?

During the three and a half years of the Messiah's ministry He spoke parables which are a form of ?tongue' that weren't understood by the people. He didn't speak in another language. The Messiah was born a Hebrew or Israelite and He spoke Hebrew (See the "Did You Know?" section of the Complimentary Issue of the "PLIM REPORT," p. 13). His mission was to fulfill the scriptures (Mt. 5:17-18), which were also written in Hebrew.

Many of the prophets prophesied that the Messiah would speak to Israel in another tongue. Isaiah the prophet wrote under the influence of the Holy Spirit: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people (Isa. 28:11)." The Apostle Paul wrote: "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith Yahweh (the Lord, 1 Cor. 14:21)." Now one may ask, if the Messiah's native tongue were Hebrew, what did Isaiah mean when he wrote that the Messiah would speak in another tongue.

Reply to : cutandpaster [Anonymous]

BUZZ!!!   Wrong!!!  Jesus probably spoke Aramaic as well (like in The Passion of the Christ).