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MothandRust
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Date Posted:27/04/2007 12:11 AMCopy HTML

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 12:11 AMCopy HTML

Porn is yuck. Its disgusting. It's wrong. Think on what is pure, holy, noble and right. Amen.I definitely don't support any of that junk. I don't think it's normal. I think it's wrong - and men and women ahould operate self-control in this area.Stiff bickies if you don't agree with the Bible.- Jesus would not look at -or condone looking at porn- It is sin.

 

Porn in the bible?

Some porn truly is disgusting, abhorrent and sad. There's no doubt about that, but it's all on a sliding scale between tasteful erotica and nasty 'ewww'. In the main, the bad end of the sordid business is one where many poor unfortunates find themselves forced into a seedy lifestyle to produce media for the gratification of the base instincts of others and many find themselves addicted to viewing it to a point where quality of life is affected. But is all porn completely vile? Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder and the yep, porn can be as much a negative vice as gluttony or drug use, be that any recreational stimulant. But the freedom to look at uncovered mammary glands of a gorgeous woman is not what I call abnormal or sinful. In fact, the idea of publicly sharing such imagery was promoted by the Bible's Solomon who believed it was something to be shared, 'under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit', that is.
The bible doesn't have pictures but as far as erotic literacy goes, it's a racy book. I know there's a guy online somewhere who is slowly illustrating the whole bible verse by verse. I can't wait until he gets to the Song of Solomon.
The Song of Songs?aka the "Song of Solomon"?is like nothing else so far in the Bible. It's an eight-chapter poem, narrated by two lovers. She's dark, young, and foxy. He's strong, sexy, and seductive. (He may even be Solomon, the purported author of the song.) No doubt some Bible scholars claim that the song is just an allegory, that the lusty images and panting verses are really enthusiastic prayers. No way. This is no religious metaphor. This is sexy time. This is Last Tango in Judah. The song is a duet, with the lovers alternating passages. She starts, and begins with a bang: "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth! For your love is better than wine." Now that's an opening line!
Song of Songs 8:10 - Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full? And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."
 
Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies." Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts." The dirtiest verse in the bible! :
Ezekiel 23:20 Yet she increased her whorings, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt (20)and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions. KJV- 20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
(spit or swallow?)
Mat 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
Song of Songs 3:4 "Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother's house, to the room of the one who conceived me."
So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn't take him to her "mother's house". She would take him to their house.
Song of Songs 5:4 "I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.'
I have taken off my robe (i.e., she showed his breasts and vagina to him. Underwears and bras didn't exist back then!) must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him."
The Bible seems to have no problem with Lesbianism whatsoever, and it talks about eroticism very openly when it discusses how round and tasty the women's breasts and vaginas are. ahhh christian porn
 
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RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:34 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

A very provocative post!  No doubt many will consider it a pretty cool way of pointing out hypocrisy in bible believers.

Unfortunately, imho, your interpretation of the bible in this matter is about as reasonable as that of those who say that if you don't speak in tongues you're not a Christian.

BTW have you considered that some parents may not wish to allow their young children to view entertainers, particularly female ones, flashing their nipples?

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 9:00 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Brolga

Reply to : MothandRustPorn is yuck. Its disgusting. It's wrong. Think on what is pure, holy, noble and right. Amen.I definitely don't support any of that junk. I don't think it's normal. I think it's wrong - and men and women ahould operate self-control in this area.Stiff bickies if you don't agree with the Bible.- Jesus would not look at -or condone looking at porn- It is sin.Porn in the bibleThis is going to make a 'great' blog. Thanks for the idea!! Fantastic... now I'll be up all night, not with the porn butGood moth, Just a quick comment. I looked at this from a different view point in Song of Solomon, that theauthor (God) was giving an illustration of the unique relationship that a bride and groom have for one another, not in sharing itwith others,an

Amen to that Brolga and r-f on the edge.

Nice try moth unfortunatly you get an fail mark on this exam

earth5

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 9:57 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5

Nice try moth unfortunatly you get an fail mark on this exam - earth5

Brolga: An intimate physical act is described in print. No matter what meaning is given to it. The metaphor is richly described for the reader to enjoy. And it does seem to be an incestuous relationship.

Earth: That does not constitute a rebuttle Earth nor does it result in a fail unless you can show me the criteria in which you marked it from.

R-f on the edge: Get over it ... no, there's no nipplage in the animation. They're shadows... slow it down in a giff animator if you want to look closer... hahaha.

This is very confronting for you guys hey. What do you think Shining?

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 12:28 PMCopy HTML

Hey Motho....                             That picture is yuck and immodest.   I for one- don't like to see that junk at all.

Song of solomon is not about a woman wanting to do it with her brother.

Yes I know there is kinda sick stories in the Bible- It doesn't mean that God condones that behaviour though.

All your indecent comments about women's private parts- and other things are too much.  You are reading that stuff into the text.

To him who is pure- all things are pure......

As for your example from Esther- get some context...!! God was not responsible for encouraging that behaviour at all.

David did get punished for his sin with Bathsheba- their son was killed.  God forgave him- because he repented.

Amen

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 12:39 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

R-f on the edge:Get over it ... no, there's no nipplage in the animation. They're shadows... slow it down in a giff animator if you want to look closer... hahaha.

OK I'll take your word for it.  Stiil, in my opinion it's still not a 'G' rated image.

I wouldn't  call it confronting. More like "junk interpretation", easily rebutted if one wishes to listen to the other side. (Of course  I'm not going to try to do it, since as we both know there's heaps written by experts. Call me gutless if you like. ) I've come across stuff like it before. As far as I'm concerned it's like saying that the bible says Paul did drugs because it says he got stoned.

Sure there are some explicit references in the bible, particularly SS, to sexuality. But ... c'mon ... tell the truth ... do you really believe all your conclusions, or are you just stirring the possum?

(Memo to self  ...  promise I won't be drawn into spending more time on this )

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 12:52 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Shining for Jesus


Hey Motho....That picture isyuck and immodest. I for one- don't like to see that junk at all.Song of solomon isnotabout a woman wanting to do it with her brother.Yes I know there is kinda sick stories in the Bible- It doesn't mean that God condones that behaviour though.All yourindecent comments about women's private parts- and other thingsareto

Song of solomon is not about a woman wanting to do it with her brother. Yes I know there is kinda sick stories in the Bible- It doesn't mean that God condones that behaviour though. All your indecent comments about women's private parts- and other things are too much.  You are reading that stuff into the text. To him who is pure- all things are pure......

As for your example from Esther- get some context...!! God was not responsible for encouraging that behaviour at all.David did get punished for his sin with Bathsheba- their son was killed.  God forgave him- because he repented. Homosexuality is never encouraged anywhere in the Bible- it is an abomination.


I'll just let you know, that I will copy any decent replies to my original post in this forum into my website. I'll change the names so you can't be identified, of course.

I love that picture. It's beautiful in its immodesty. Of course much is taken out of context, that's half the fun, but you're going to have to fill that book up with liquid paper if you don't want it to look like Solomon was talking about private parts in these verses. I'm sure you see my tongue firmly in cheek... or perhaps hanging out - pmsl. I don't even believe the bible is the literal word of god. But you do and the song of songs must count. But okay, I'll keep biting.  I'm sorry if the picture of swinging boobs offends you. Sorry about that... but I'm not going to hold back on a post or blog because it might offend someone... to a degree. If further discussion will offend I'd suggest you not continue reading this thread.

Even though she may not be his biological sister, but calling her a "sister" in a pornographic and sick situation as shown in details below is not proper, and may suggest that the sick pervert would fantasize about his biological sister if he had one.  Song of Songs 4:9 "You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace."   Fantasizing about his sister? at least he shows in this verse that he would!.

Song 5:4 -I have taken off my robe  must I put it on again?  ... My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him."

How else would you interpret that. I'm sorry, a dirty mind is one thing, but in the context of the song this is certainly some disrobing and latch opening groping going on...

The imagery devices used in the text of Song of Soloman are pornographic.

Very soft porn, but porn nonetheless.

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Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

Date Posted:27/04/2007 1:05 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Shining for Jesus


Hey Motho....That picture isyuck and immodest. I for one- don't like to see that junk at all.Song of solomon isnotabout a woman wanting to do it with her brother.Yes I know there is kinda sick stories in the Bible- It doesn't mean that God condones that behaviour though.All yourindecent comments about women's private parts- and other thingsareto

Thanks for continuing the discussion

God is pretty mixed up when it comes to sex. It was okay for the bride-groom (new testament story) to have ten virgnis or at least five good ones and God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God demolished the city because the citizens:

  1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
  2. wanted to rape people
  3. engaged in homosexual acts
  4. whether the punishment was for this single act involving Lot, or because of long lasting sinful behaviour

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation, and believed that the sexual activity was habitual. In fact, the term sodomy which means anal intercourse was derived from the name of the city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the correct one.

What the Bible Says About Homosexuality.

In biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were:

1. kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation.

2. some non-Jewish tribes in the area had male prostitutes in their temples that may have engaged in same-sex activities; this horrified the ancient Israelites.

3. it is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed, but these would normally have been conducted in secret.

Only the third type would have any similarity to today's gay and lesbian consentual, committed, loving relationships.

Many versions of the Bible exist in the English language. Each reflects the world view, beliefs and mind sets of its translators. Their personal biases distort their work. There is an additional complexity facing translators: today's society is very different from that of Biblical times. It is sometimes difficult to find a current English word that matches a Hebrew or Greek term.

Many words have been translated from the original Hebrew and Greek texts as "homosexual", "sodomite", "homosexuality". However, most (perhaps all) of the references bear no similarity to today's lesbian and gay partnerships.

By carefully reading the original texts and considering the societies in which they were written, one comes to surprising conclusions:

* The Bible has a lot to say about temple prostitution.

* It talks about being kind to strangers in a way that has been incorrectly interpreted as referring to homosexual acts

* It says almost nothing about homosexual feelings;

* It says nothing about sexual orientation. The writers of the Bible assumed that everyone was heterosexual (or "straight"); the concept of sexual orientation was not developed until the late 19th century.

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  • homosexual activity in the temple by male prostitutes is clearly prohibited by the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).
  • homosexual activity in general may have been prohibited at the time bythe Holiness Code, but that code is no longer binding on Christians today.
  • St. Paul considered at least some male and female homosexual acts to be forbidden, but it is unclear precisely which acts are included. He may have been referring to temple prostitution, or to people who are notinnately gay, lesbian or bisexual engaging in homosexual acts. One should note that Paul also condemned women preaching (1 Cor 14:34) orwearing gold or pearls (1 Tim 2:11). He also accepted and did notcondemn the institution of slavery. Some Christians feel that his writings are not a useful guide for ethics and morals in the 20th Century.
  • Jesus made many hundreds of statements regarding belief and behaviour. However He never mentioned homosexuality.
  • There are two Biblical same-sex relationships (one between two women, the other two men) reported in the Bible in a positive light. They appear to have progressed well beyond friendship. They were likely homosexual affairs, although not necessarily sexually active relationships:
    • Ruth 1:16, 2:10-11 between Ruth and Naomi
    • 1 Samuel 18:1-4, 1 Samuel 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 between David and Jonathan. (Some translations of the Bible distort the original Hebrew text, particularly of 1 Samuel 20)
  • It is the subject of endless debate whether St. Paul's prohibition of at least some homosexual acts was:
    • for the people in the vicinity of the Mediterranean during the 1st Century CE, or
    • for all people, forever.
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    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 3:09 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Brolga

    Might surprise you , but I'm not inclined to agree with this one at the moment. It seems to be in the context of tongues. Working on it .By the way, I call my wife sister, but only when we are refering to "children in the Lord"


    That's quite right, she wasn't lusting after her own biological brother. She was fantasizing about a guy she calls his "brother"(her biological brother nursed from her "mother's breast" as she said) so she doesn't have to take him home in secret. Obviously they were not married, but this was okay for sex... they were dating. It is important to know that in Semitic languages, the terms "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" does not exist. The titles "my sister" and "my bride" were clearly symbolic titles and not literal.  We can't take "bride" literal and not "sister" when they came right after each others!

    Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me.  I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink the nectar of my pomegranates.  His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

    First of all the poem is "between a maiden and her lover", not between a wife and her husband. 

    "bride" here is a title of honor because like I said, the titles "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" do not exist in Semitic languages, and therefore, "bride" was the closest title to that.   That is why the words "husband" and "wife" do not exist in this poem, because marriage was never accomplished in this relationship that contained ample sex and lust.

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 3:28 PMCopy HTML

    Hi Shiny,

    Excuse me for saying so, but you show yourself to be young and ignorant of some of life's realities.

    Sure the revolving bosom bouncer at the top is distasteful to many and 'immodest' as you say. I'd suggest that modesty (as encouraged in the RF) is over-rated and at times silly! I recall last summer taking my boys to the public swimming pool, and a RF family I know was there. The 'sister' (in her 30's) was wearing a modest swimming costume, and looked absolutely ridiculous! She had an OK figure, and nothing to be ashamed of, but the cossy was a big grannies style thing that probably brought much more (negative) attention to her than if she wore a simple modern one. There are a lot of religious concepts of decency that are absurd, and do nothing more than turn people away from religions.

    You say that porn and homosexuality is disgusting?!.... Moth is right, porn can certainly be so and can demonstrate the worst of human behaviour. But is is extremely naive and short-sighted to make a blanket statement and demonise it and anyone that partakes in it. It is also incredibly insensitive, intolerant, and lacking in empathy to judge anybody who uses porn. Sin?..... HUMBUG!!! Remember Jesus's response to those wishing to judge the prostitute?

    Desires that are in most cases hard-wired into the psyche of our species are normal. Of course people who have these desires will want to indulge in it! Today's technology makes erotica an integral part of society, whether or not some moralists prefer to accept it.

    Your attitude towards homosexuality is archaic, showing your immaturity, fueled by the Christian delusion you have been involved with. To harbour intolerance towards homosexuality is a grossly ignorant way to live. People are BORN with their sexual orientation, and are as normal as you and I. What if your young children grow to know that they are homosexual? (It is a very real statistical possibility). How would you deal with that? Would you love them unconditionally and respect their identity, or would you do an RF job on them, casting them aside if they don't conform to YOUR standards of acceptability? I'd hope that you can see that it is dysfunctional to live this way.

    I seriously believe that the whole 'Christian' moralistic obsession with sexuality is obscenely unwarranted. To watch a scene in a movie where people are involved with consensual passionate sex is treated by these wowsers with contempt(at least thats what they profess), yet they are often far less worried about a movie showing people being blown away in acts of mass violence. It is incredibly disproportionate to judge acts of making love (clothed or not) as worse than acts of hostility and violence (whether or not they are graphic). It is twisted and perverted thinking!

    Furthermore, the dishonesty and pretention that is fostered in 'Christian' circles is an extremely unhealthy phenomena. All around, they dress, act, behave and talk as though they uphold this 'holier than thou' bullshit, when in fact they have just the same covert desires as those they judge. It is hypocritical and false, and leads to an internal state of conflict that really can fuck with there heads. Time and time again this situation is seen for what it is, from those around you in churches, to oversight, and the high-rollin TV evangelists. The bottom line here is the issue of INTEGRITY. It is about being real and acting/living in harmony with your professions.

    I have a lot more to say on the topic of INTOLERANCE but that's enough for now.

    Dog.



    "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 3:31 PMCopy HTML

    looks to me by his post's that the Moth has comverted to Scott Williams view on sex etc

    Have you joined the CAI now mothy???????????

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 4:19 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : earth5

    looks to me by his post's that the Moth has comverted to Scott Williams view on sex etcHave you joined the CAI now mothy???????????

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    No, my loins lean very firmly towards the first picture I posted. I Married a redhead in fact - Redheads are truly hot.

    Yeah, I'ill always defend homosexuals as fellow people who have a right to live their lives how they see fit, free from the judgemental and sometimes very vocally Christians who persecute them using the bible to justify their position. They give themselves straw man credit because of the self-appointed Christian badge, as if that means they're something better.

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 5:01 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : misswooty

    Damn right we are!although I should be careful here lest I be accused of being a Moth groupie again

    I knew I liked you for good reason.

    What would a porn thread be like without video?

    We've never had a porn thread before... we'll get it moved into the appropriate room when we get bored with it.

    Is sex a sin?

    (short documentary from Youtube: PG-M13)

    (well, we know sex itself isn't a sin... watch the vid if you dare, it's not what you might think)

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 5:40 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : MothandRust

    Would you like to rebutt my previous posts as is the nature of a forum or just continue to call me names  and make allusions? If so, let's get that back on track at the other thread. This one is about 'pornography' or eroticism etc. unless you want to discuss gay porn... which I truly don't.



    Ooh ohh I have been told of by the great and mighty moth I will run and hide in shame now shudder shudder

    Moth I have nothing to fear over gay people, been around to long my friend, in the eyes of God sin is sin it is us mere mortals that tend to "Grade" sin, as in oh no that one is much worse than that one.

    We all need to have a realtionship with God and come to repentance of our sins as we are all sinners saved by grace not of ourselves.

    The problem is and i think you would concur is that when people in the gay community or prostitutes etc etc want to turn to God and think of church they laugh and go "yea right I already feel bad they will only make me feel worse so why bother"

    This is the sad indictment upon us as christians we need to get away from judging people by what we see and instead see them as God sees them, with love and compassion and as just yet another soul that needs to meet our Lord and Savoiur

    earth5

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 5:58 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : shindig

    Did you guys ever believe that porn and homosexuality were wrong???(like when you were Christians)... Did you ever really believe it was wrong? Why did you change your mind again? Why do you think it's ok now??I also dont agree with that video clip!!!  It's dumb.

    Well, seeing as you said you won't even be looking in this thread again, I doubt I'll be bothered answering your questions? Why would anyone? Do you want them to e-mail you the answers? I'm both surprised and proud of you for watching the video. Your review was a bit short though.

    Reply to : Eartho

    Ooh ohh I have been told of by the great and mighty moth I will run and hide in shame now shudder shudder

    Sorry you saw it that way.

    Moth I have nothing to fear over gay people, been around to long my friend, in the eyes of God sin is sin it is us mere mortals that tend to "Grade" sin, as in oh no that one is much worse than that one.

    I did'nt say I thought you were scared of gay people and if you read back you'll notice that I was generalising Christians... not making it all about you. I can see that you did perhaps notice this when I read your next statements. As you say, in the christian doctrine, everyone's a sinner and even though you believe it gets washed away at a certain point, you've still got to refresh yourselves daily or weekly or whatever, to stay on top of it. Even willfull sins (whatever that gets interpreted as) is forgiveable... I suppose a homosexual would be allowed in a church as long as he 'tried' to stop being gay... or be thrown out after a while like the cigarette guy.

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    dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 6:00 PMCopy HTML

    OK further to my previous ramble, I have a bit more to say..........

    I believe that people generally RESPECT people who demonstrate INTEGRITY in their lives. People who play out their lives by a set of personal standards that they uphold. In many cases, the integrity I speak of is not manifest in the lives of Christian and other religious people. Actualy, it is not a real common attribute generally! Consider the wikipaedia ref here fon INTEGRITY...

    "Integrity is action based on a consistent framework of principles. Depth of principles and adherence of each level to the next are key determining factors. One is said to have integrity to the extent that everything he does and believes is based on the same core set of values. While those values may change, it is their consistency with each other and with the person's actions that determine his integrity".

    My observations are that people are very often suspicious of folk who profess to uphold 'high moral values' as it is so very commonplace for these to be hypocrytical and false.

    Quote from Oscar Wilde.....

    "A man who moralizes is usually a hypocrite, and a woman who moralizes is invariably plain".

    So, I suggest that those who hold up the bible or other religious 'authorities' and want to moralize ought to pull your neck in and consider the folly you demonstrate! You'd do better to nurture a bit of compassion in your outlook!

    Which leads me to an important other subject...... INTOLERANCE.

    Any of you read or seen the story of 'The Diaries of Anne Frank'? The story of a young girl who sheltered with her family in a tiny attick for years during the German occupation in Holland. She was ultimately captured and taken to a concentration camp and died there at about 15 years of age.

    The survivor from her family was her father, Otto. Her father had a PROFOUND MESSAGE FOR MANKIND. This man saw the very worst example of man's inhumanity to man! (a chilling oxy-moron). The unspeakable atrocities that he experienced and losses he suffered were beyond our imagination. He also knew of those that were kind and helped him.

    If anybody on this planet has a reason to feel rage & hatred and seek vengeance towards the Nazis, it is Otto Frank. Yet, from every report, Otto remained a quiet, gentle, kind man and fostered no anti-nazi sentiment at all. In interviews Otto maintained a consistent equanimity. This was always reported by those that knew him as well. So what was the message he had to teach us?.........

    When interviewed and asked how it is that he doesn't have an anti-nazi stance he responded, saying that if there is any one thing that he sees as the most destructive and evil thing in mankind, it is INTOLERANCE. He said that what he saw manifest was just one example of this. The nazis propoganda made people believe that anyone not of the 'Master Race' were sub-human and had to be wiped from the face of the earth. Rather than focus on the nazis, he focused on the underlying sentiment behind their mindset, that of intolerance of those that were different. He went on to say that this is his most earnest desire, that mankind learns from this terrible history, and sees that intolerance is the most cancerous and destructive outlook to have in your life.

    So, for any of you that consider a homosexual person, or an atheist, or a Muslim, or any other group of people as under you or your lot, I wish for you to wake up and learn to live by more edifying principles!

    Dog.
    "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
    old holborn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 6:02 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : misswooty

    Damn right we are!although I should be careful here lest I be accused of being a Moth groupie again

    Speaking as one who's red head got him all kinds of trouble, I agree with that.

    But wether or not it's ethical to watch porn is beside the point , the fact is that the  $multi billion porn industry fuels and relys on the enslavement of children  and young girls, made drug dependent, raped and abused, then sold like cattle. We arent talking about what consenting adults chose to do in private. Theres obviously a market for this stuff, but can we , as decent human beings, regardless of our religeous beliefs, encourage and condone it by watching it. Seems to me thats joining in, so becoming the cause of all the misery inflicted. Without a market there would be no business.

    I 'm a great admirer of the female form, love  Moths busty red head.  I think God made something beautiful, and desireable, I'm not ashamed to be that way, and I'm a great grandad. But I agree with SFJ, us Christians should have no part in something that exploits and degrades, and corrupts  our children, Gods children. We should be denouncing it , loud and clear, until the idiots in charge get the message. Not seeking it out, and becoming corrupted ourselves.

    "But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #18
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 6:48 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : old holborn

    We arent talking about what consenting adults chose to do in private. Theres obviously a market for this stuff, but can we , as decent human beings,regardless of our religeous beliefs, encourage and condone it by watching it. Seems to me thats joining in, so becoming the cause of all the misery inflicted. Wit

    I like what you're saying and I certainly dislike the porn 'industry'.

    Shiner would like to do a psychoanalysis on what some of us think now and why.  I think it's fascinating where the conversation goes on the topic of porn in relation to the broad brush stroke of sex in general...

    Yeah, porn is a problem - It's a huge problem and it's not going to go away. The net is ALIVE with it and the only way we can protect our children is not to put blindfolds on them but to educate them. Keeping it away from them will work for a while, but curiousity will get to them and if by that time they're mature enough to have worked out what is ethical and moral 'for them' then it'll be water off a duck's back. I don't want my kids to feel the guilt that I used to feel as a christian... sulking away to god for being imperfect only to sin again and wallow in guilt. It's abuse to tell a kid they'll go to hell for being naughty, in my opinion.

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    whodoyouthinkyouare Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 7:20 PMCopy HTML

    Something I've noticed a lot lately is the contradictory attitude towards "God's creation" in many Christians. All the time, I hear about how we are supposed to have reverence and awe for the beauty and majesty of His creation. What's funny though, is how very selective Christians are in what they'll have "reverence" and "awe" for, even though it's all supposed to be designed by God.

    I live in the dorms at a Christian university , and being an atheist, needless to say I get myself into some pretty interesting conversations. I can remember one conversation I had with a few guys, where the subject matter turned to, oh, let's say matters of the flesh. Specifically, we were talking about the chemistry and inner workings of the female vagina.

    Well, of course, one of the guys got offended and left. I asked him about it later, and he said it wasn't "edifying" to talk about such things. Although earlier, for some reason, he had no problem discussing his favorite Star Wars characters- and last time I checked, that's not "edifying" either, at least not by biblical standards.

    If it made him uncomfortable or squeamish, then I could understand and sympathize. But he used the term "edifying" as though our conversation were wrong on some sort of spiritual level.

    Listen up, Christians -- you don't get to decide what part of God's creation is beautiful and what isn't! The Bible says God made everything--everything!--and said it was GOOD. That means He would have carefully designed the labia, the vulva, and the clitoris, and everything else that's down there. He would have studied and pondered exactly what chemical components would go into female discharges, and how they would be released.

    And then YOU (Christians) come along and have the nerve to say, "it's not proper" or "that kind of talk is filthy." Have you no reverence for your Designer and the hard work He put in His creation?

    Here's what I think, and I mean this most sincerely. I think, if you believe in a god, and you claim to respect his creation, but call some natural aspect of it filthy, or dirty- this is tantamount to blasphemy. Yes, blasphemy. Why do you praise your God for sunsets, but not for excrement?

    As an atheist, I can say, I think sunsets are prettier than poop. But you, the Christian, believe both are the handiwork of an intelligent designer, and ought to give both the same reverence, or else you are a hypocrite, and you don't really respect your God's design. Peace and Love,
    no1home Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 7:36 PMCopy HTML

    I agree that 'porn' - as per my definition of it above - is nasty, is a big problem and causes people no end of grief and suffering. For every article you read about a happy well-adjusted girl who did a few skin flicks to pay her way through college and was completely unaffected by it, there are a hundred stories of misery, exploitation, degradation, humiliation and corruption. Many innocent lives are destroyed by the porn industry and there's nothing healthy or consenting about that.

    What I do have a problem with (like what I suspect whodoyouthinkyouare is saying above) is when people chuck every image of an unclad or semi-clad human body in the PORN basket and then proceed to say it's all therefore filth, junk, wicked, yuck, evil, disgusting, abnormal.

    This puritanical attitude is how people end up with major hangups about their bodies and their sexuality - yes sexuality! Like it or not, we all have it, and denying it is just as unhealthy as exploiting it.
    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #21
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:00 PMCopy HTML

    To........whomever this post will concern.....

    I don't blame that guy for walking away from that discussion. (who do u think u are's post)...... Good on him. He said "it's not edifying" yeh, but a better description would be that it's not right to talk in that way.... Some issues should be just for private reflection- or possibly discussing with your marriage partner...

     I think you're wrong in saying that....eg:  Flowers are beautiful -and so are female's private parts....so let's chat about both....

    There is a thing called decency, and modesty,  and I think it's important that we all respect that in regard to these topics. A lot of people seem to have no problems talking explicitly-(and in a disrespectful manner)... about these private matters.

    I call immodest exposures and other lusty sexual stuff "filth" because I don't think it should be displayed- or encouraged in any way.

    I do not think the human body is filthy. God made it good.  I think what people choose to do with their body can be filthy.

    Also....   just because a person has a set of values and morals that others may consider "extreme" or "too high"....does not mean there is anything wrong with that.

     I think have a good set of biblically based values and morals. I am far from perfect and don't claim to be anything amazing.

    I try to live up to my beliefs- if I do wrong ....I repent and try to cut that sin out of my life...-some things are harder than others to chop out of my life.  

     I don't think that makes me a hypocrite. I will not condone any sinful behaviour that I do. I try to stop sinning as much as I can.

     I know that God knows my heart- He knows that I want to chang in particular areas- His grace and mercy cover me. He is a good God. I am so happy that Jesus is my saviour...and that He has shown me how to live. He shows the way to eternal life.. Amen.

     

    no1home Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:22 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus

    I don't blame that guy for walking away from that discussion. (who do u think u are's post)......Good on him. He said "it's not edifying" yeh, but a better description would be that it's not right to talk in that way.... Some issues should be just for private reflection- or possibly discussing with your marriage partner...


    OK, so hypothetically, what if they were discussing it in the context of being medical students or biology students... is it right to presume that just because someone is talking about the female anatomy they are automatically being rude and disrespectful and therefore wicked.

    No, there's nothing wrong with having morals and principles, as long as you can accept that not everyone shares them. It's called tolerance and it doesn't mean you have to agree with what you think is wrong, but it does mean you don't wag your finger disapprovingly at everyone and label them naughty just because they don't live by your standards.

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:29 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : MothandRust

    Reply to : old holbornWe arent talking about what consenting adults chose to do in private. Theres obviously a market for this stuff, but can we , as decent human beings,regardless of our religeous beliefs, encourage and condone it by watching it. Seems to me thats joining in, so becoming the cause of all the misery inflicted. WitI like what you're saying and I certainly dislike the porn 'industry'.Shiner would like to do a psychoanalysis on what some of us think now and why. I think it's fascinating where the conversation goes on the topic of porn in relation to the broad brush stroke of sex in general...Yeah, porn is a problem - It's a huge problem and it's not going to go away. The net is ALIVE with it and the only way we can protect our chi

    Oh yes lets educate them and look at the results more porn more drugs more sex yes that really works.

    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:39 PMCopy HTML

    I see people "wagging" their fingers at me- just as much as I "wag" my finger at others.  All the- pro abortion- ....pro-all types of sex.....- pro-porn...pro homosexuality etc  people ditch just as much judgement at us people () that are opposed to all those things.

    In fact , I think today,  If a person believes those things are wrong and speak out against them.............they will cop more flack from the supporters of those activities........then they even gave out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is a lot easier to fit into society now if you are pro- those above issues....then if you are against them.

    I used to be pro.  - for all those things. Since becoming a Christian... I am now firmly against all those things. I think I cop a lot more flack now then I ever have- believing the other way.

    People tell me I'm judgemental, intolerant etc.   I think some of the supporters of those issues are intolerant of people like me.

    I don't want to do evil to the people practicing those things. I want to show love to them -and encourage them to repent and follow Christ.

    What's wrong with that?       If someone wants to believe a particular thing that I don't agree with...that's up to them. I will chat and debate for a time- if they are willing-  but in the end it's up to them. I will respect that person- but will not condone their wicked ideas.

    ok?

    dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:43 PMCopy HTML

    Hi again Shiny,

    OK I'll repond to your questions quite candidly.

    Did you guys ever believe that porn and homosexuality were wrong???(like when you were Christians)...

    There was a veneer of believing that. I embraced the bible as the 'truth' and accepted the teachings interpreted from the bible to say that homosexuality was wrong. I tried to be a 'good christian' and avoid 'lustful thoughts' but really, this was all a farce. As a young red-blooded man, the desire to see beautiful women is unstoppable and it is highly pretentious acting as though you don't want to. Naturally I masturbated (and still do) and married as soon as I could to provide for 'legitimate' release of this energy. And yes, I occasionally indulged in porn both before and after leaving the RF. I used to feel very guilty earlier on, but after a while kind of came to the realisation that a natural urge that is given to us like this cannot be quenched. Of course, while in the church, I maintained the act that this was not so. Got to keep up the illusion, don't ya!
    Did you ever really believe it was wrong?

    Homosexuality- probably not, I just overlaid my instinctual beliefs with the RF beliefs. (Peer pressure & brain-washing can make you believe all kinds of shit)! At heart, I have always seen it as a natural way for some to be. It is not my orientation, but can't deny that it is for some, and have accepted that.

    Why did you change your mind again?


    I came back to my senses after realising the absurdity of much of the beliefs of the RF. Also, becoming older and wiser, I learnt that it is folly to judge people on the basis of such bigoted notions. I also came to know and befriend a number of wonderful gay people. Preconceptions and prejudices go out the window when you find that people are people, and differences don't matter!

    Why do you think it's ok now??


    I've already covered that. I must say though, that I acknowledge (as has already been said) that I do find much of the porn industry extremely distasteful and sometimes sick. Particularly when it involves violence or exploitation of the vulnerable.

    A little more about the bigotry often practiced by people saying that homosexuality is wrong & disgusting.... I come back to the example of nazi propaganda and how they treated the Jews and others. What they did was to 'de-humanize' all of the detainees, cutting their hair off, taking away all their clothes and personal items, giving them numbers and treating them like cattle. All this facilitated their mindset of thinking of them as less than human. Similarly today, people hold these archaic prejudices towards 'homosexuals' and think of them with disdain, ignorant of the fact that they are intelligent, thinking, feeling, loving human beings just like them. Their sexual orientation is just a small part of them.

    It can be quite confronting therefor, if & when they actually get to know some gay folk, and realise how irrelevent their prejudices have been.

    Dog.
    "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:56 PMCopy HTML

    Thanks for answering my questions dog!  seriously... It is informative. Can you others please answer them too??? -I can then see where you are all coming from...

    I firmly believe that those above issues  .....(abortion/all sex is ok/homosexuality/and porn)... are wrong now...I never did cover up my previous "real" beliefs after becoming a Christian. I changed my belief system to align with God's word on these matters...and I strongly believe that I have the right view now.

    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:57 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : earth5

    Oh yes lets educate them and look at the results more porn more drugs more sex yes that really works.


    of course it works... You've oversimplified what is a huge topic concerning the rate at which our society has changed and how we as educators are addressing it. The problem with today's society is that we have far too much knowledge and not enough wisdom in which to use it.

    Are you saying we shouldn't educate our kids?

    Let me put it this way. Perhaps you were too quick too attack rather than take in what it was I was alluding to. That can happen in taboo subjects such as these. The population has been getting hold of information at an exponential rate and we have overtaken our ability to process it properly. Chrisianity has embraced this lag and filled it in with their brand of rules and regs.. effectively they've brought back the ten commandments and upped the ante to another few dozen.

    As educators we need to manage what they see and help them internalise it.

    Ignorance is the problem even when an overload on information is behind it.

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #28
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 9:37 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus



    Thanks for answering my questions dog! seriously...It is informative. Can you others please answer them too??? -I can then see where you are all coming from...I firmly believe that those above issues .....(abortion/all sex is ok/homosexuality/and porn)...are wrong now...I never did cover up my previous"real" beliefs after becoming a Christian. I changed my belief system to align with God's word on these matters...and I strongly believe thatI havethe right view now.





    I appreciate that Shiny!

    Perhaps you might answer my previous question to you? I mean really stop and meditate on this scenario. Think about how you would manage the emotions and thoughts that would flood your being. Please consider......

    10 years or so from now you have raised your children with all the love, care and devotion that a good mother does, teaching them right from wrong, nurturing and helping them through the every problem. As your teenage son has gone through all the usual adolescent stages, he coyly comes to you and your husband says that he thinks he is gay. After picking yourselves up from the floor, how do you respond?

    I'll hazard a guess here and suggest that you become an emotional mess, then try to suggest that it is wrong and question the validity of his perception. You may try to councel him out of his beliefs about his sexuality. I'm sure you'd have a lot of difficulty coming to terms with this (as most parents would).

    But let's say that your hopes of there being some stage he's going through are dashed. He is now a 20 year old man and is quite clearly gay. You have had a number of confrontational 'talks' with him after finding out he has a male partner, and he can no longer live with your non-acceptance of his identity because of the conflict at home. So how do you manage this crisis?

    In the HYPOTHETICAL story here, you find that 'homosexuals' are no longer just a tag that you can conveniently place upon THOSE people that you believe will go to hell unless they change. But here you have your own flesh & blood that you love dearly. You know that he is not this way because of some bad influences in his upbringing, or even his social life. He is in most ways a normal 20 year old man. Do you think you may reconsider your outlook?

    NOTE: Shiny, please note I'm not really intending to target you in a personal way. Your thoughts represent many people who think just the same as you, and I'm just using you to explore these concepts. I'd like all who read this to ask themselves these questions.

    Dog.
    "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
    no1home Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #29
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 9:56 PMCopy HTML

    Sure SFJ I'll answer your questions, just as they were written:

    Did you guys ever believe that porn and homosexuality were wrong???(like when you were Christians)...

    Hmm, that's a fairly loaded question... you seem to be assuming that all the people you're asking (a) believe that porn and homosexuality are right and (b) aren't Christians any more.

    Did you ever really believe it was wrong?

    Another loaded one... you seem to be assuming again that all the people you're asking (a) now believe it is right, (b) aren't Christians any more and (c) were kidding themselves the whole time they were Christians.

    Why did you change your mind again?

    You seem to be assuming I have changed my mind - who says I have! I just don't have a 'black & white' view of everything. Yes, at this point in time that means I may not necessarily agree with everything the Bible says as I'm in a period of asking a lot of questions and examining my beliefs, but I don't think this means my ideas are automatically wicked.

    Why do you think it's ok now??

    More assumptions! I don't actually think 'porn' (as per my definition of it) is OK - but your definition of porn is obviously quite different. As for my views on homosexuality, the jury's still out on that one, but again I don't think that necessarily means my ideas are wicked.


    There's a subtle difference between stating that you BELIEVE something is right/wrong, and stating that something IS right/wrong. After years in the RF being told what to think you may have noticed I've developed quite an aversion to it

    I'm all for people sharing what they believe, in fact I love hearing different points of view, but I object when it's being presented as the only definitive truth on the matter - I'm happy to listen and discuss, but I'll come to my own conclusions thanks

    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:07 PMCopy HTML

    Is that what u call answering my questions!!!!!!!!!!! ahhahahaha

    They were just rough questions- so I could see what you guys believed- if u'd always believed it- if maybe Christ changed your views....if u then changed your views back etc... 

     I think you're takin it too personal. They were not just addressed at you miss. They were for generally whoever wanted to answer them and discuss their views.

    I don't think I was assuming anything. I was simply questioning!

    Obviously you don't really wanna answer them... that's cool.

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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:11 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : misswooty

    There's a subtle difference between stating that you BELIEVE something is right/wrong, and stating that something IS right/wrong. After years in the RF being told what to think you may have noticed I've developed quite an aversion to it

    That's exactly it. That and the 'loaded' questions are really what I take umbridge with (I also take umbridge with people who say the word umbridge, but I'm going with that for now). It's obvious that Shiny is oblivious to how her questioning comes across... dare I say it, a little naive? I remember thinking the exact way you do... so pious and prudish. I used the bible verbatim and forgot to use my head. Zombie like..

    This may look like an attack on Christians, but really we're here to discuss the close-mindedness of Revivalist teaching. In the case of things sexual though, this blurs over the line.

    The Revivalists dislike the non-tongue speaking churched but at least they're all united with their intolerance for atheists and homosexuals and other lifestyles outside of their creedos.

    Living Dead Morals


    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    no1home Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #32
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:19 PMCopy HTML



    Is that what u call answering my questions!!!!!!!!!!!


    Yeah it is actually!

    I never said I thought the questions were addressed at me and they weren't answered in that way (I actually don't think everything is about me )

    You have to admit they were pretty closed questions! If you want to know what people think, why not just ask them straight out "what do you think about this?" instead of "why do you think this is OK?"

    Obviously you don't really wanna know what people think... that's cool


    break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #33
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:42 PMCopy HTML

    wow so much to cover in just one post....

    ok firstly i agree with miss wooty on her breakdown of porn, erotica, gratuitous nudity ect.

    i belive the human body is beautiful, as an art student i studied the naked body, as a makeup artist i have worked with both scantily clad people and naked people (yep men and women) i used to do body painting competitions with both male and female modles waring only underpants, and there was nothing sexual about that it was and is art.

    porn (as defined previously by miss wooty) is disgusting, denegrating to women, and clearly inappropriate for christians, it can also be addictive and just as destructive as drugs or alcohol over eating ect.

    homosexuality is disgusting if you think about it too much- but anyone who thinks they choose it... well who in their right mind would choose a lifestyle where you are hated, your family disowns you, people randomly beat you up, ect. while i know the bible says homosexuals will not enter the kigdom of heaven (and moth it does say that) it also includes liars in the same group- now can anyone here truly say they have never lied??? and since jesus clearly came with a message of love we are ment to love the man (or woman) but not their sin, god doesnt judge sin on a sliding scale man does.

    regardless of how i feel about their sexual lives i will not stop being friends with the people i know who are gay, or my friends who are muslim, budist, ba'hai, ect nor will i waste my time judging them.

    moth, unlike most of the people here i know where you got your information from, and i read the site. im sure you know as well as i do that the person who wrote it was trying to discredit the bible and christianity, things wer taken out of context, the was alot more read into some of the passages highlighted than was reasonable, and as i know they should know because it is the same in their culture as well.... calling an unmarried man or woman my brother or my sister was respectfull just as it was common to call older men and women father and mother despite not being related.

    there is more i could say at this point but i will leave at this for now

    old holborn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #34
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:48 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : MothandRust

    Reply to : earth5Oh yes lets educate them and look at the results more porn more drugs more sex yes that really works.of course it works... You've oversimplified what is a huge topic concerning the rate at which our society has changed and how we as educators are addressing it. The problem with today's society is that we have far too much knowledge and not enough wisdom in which to use it.Are you saying we shouldn't educate our kids?Let me put it this way. Perhaps you were too quick too attack rather than take in what it was I was alluding to. That can happen in taboo subjects such as these. The population has been getting hold of information at an exponential rate and we have overtaken our ability to process it properly. Chrisianity

    I guess there's education and theres education. From what I read about the sex education of very young primary school children over here, they are being taught an awful lot about the mechanics, but very little about the dangers involved.

    When as a young army rookie about to be posted out to Egypt in the late 40s, we attended a lecture, with slides, highlighting the terrible results of STD. The close up pictures were revolting, and scared the life out of me. After, our RSM said "Where you are going, these diseases are rife, take a tip from me, it's better, and safer, to get yourself  a dirty book, and go and sit in the sh#t house.  I admit it, I took his advice,  But \I knew many who did'nt, and suffered the consequencies. And those pictures, that education stayed with me, and kept me on the straight and narrow.

    Nowadays it seems , the emphasis is on "safe" sex, we cant prevent them from doing it , so lets make it all easier, and acceptable,then wondering why there are so many un married mothers, and unwanted pregnancies, rise in STDs etc. Call me an old fart, old fashioned if you like, but the statistics prove that theres something wrong somewheres.

    "But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #35
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:52 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus

    Sorry about the "loaded" questions guys. I honestly just quickly wrote them to get an idea of you guy's beliefs! I didn't realise you'd all get your knickers in a knot about them!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahhahaI could rewrite them all in an "unloaded" way ....I'm not assuming you all think the same....In fact... I know most people have different ideas about a lot of stuff- and it isunlikelyfor any two people to think exactly the same way.I simply want to know...If you don't wanna answer...then don't.....that's cool...What do u believe regardin

    Advice to Christian Aplogists... here's how to do it.

    Is every word in the bible supposed to be taken literally? The answer is yes, except in those cases where it isn't. For example, the Bible clearly says that God hates homosexuality. That part is literal. The bible also says that God hates mixing different fibers in clothing. That part is not literal.

    a) Everything in the Bible is literally true until it is questioned.

    b) If the section is question is not in contradiction with anything else in the Bible, it is most likely literally true.

    c) If the section is question is in seeming contradiction with something else in the Bible, it is a possible candidate for requiring interpretation.

    So, God hating homosexuality is literal. God hating mixing diverse fibers in clothing is not literal. Perhaps it is a metaphor for not mixing with other races, or possibly it has to do with the way the ancients divided their world into categories, or following the practice of not mixing fibers was a sign of love for God, or it only applied to the ancients and not to modern people, etc. Which one you choose is not important. The important part is that you can now wear wool and linen at the same time without being sent to hell, but still know that Liberace is there.

    Is the law still practiced by Christians today?
    Do you think it should be practiced today?

    If the answer to either of these is "yes", then it probably meant "forever" literally. If not, check to see if a later passage says something which would lead you to believe it wasn't a literal "forever". Chances are it was not a literal "forever". It could have been just a metaphor for "a good long time" and only said "forever" as a kind of hyperbole to show He meant it really good and proper.

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #36
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 10:59 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : break free

    moth, unlike most of the people here i know where you got your information from, and i read the site. im sure you know as well as i do that the person who wrote it was trying to discredit the bible and christianity, things wer taken out of context,

    Anyone with Google on their computer can find that out. Surely no-one thinks I sat down with a bible and picked out all the verses in the Song of Solomon myself. Yes, and I"ve admitted that there were scriptures taken out of context, then went to elaborate on the scriptures that weren't taken out of context. Such as the following. It's clearly not talking about dressmaking or blah... it's about sex and it's also clear from the text that they weren't married. My point... none really... was just saying is all.

    Song 5:4 -I have taken off my robe  must I put it on again?  ... My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him."

    I thorougly enjoyed the reactions to it so far.

    Your other comments on homosexuality. Please see the other thread. this is my porn thread babee!

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #37
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 11:06 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : old holborn

    Reply to : MothandRustReply to : earth5Oh yes lets educate them and look at the results more porn more drugs more sex yes that really works.of course it works... You've oversimplified what is a huge topic concerning the rate at which our society has changed and how we as educators are addressing it. The problem with today's society is that we have far too much knowledge and not enough wisdom in which to use it.Are you saying we shouldn't educate our kids?Let me put it this way. Perhaps you were too quick too attack rather than take in what it was I was alluding to. That can happen in taboo subjects such as these. The population has been getting hold of information at an exponential rate and we have overtaken our ability to process it properly. ChrisianityI guess there'

    when i was at schol we were taught safe sex, they covered STDs but i never saw any pics, my cousin is a few years younger than me, she was also taught safe sex, however they had to look ALOT of pictures of what it looked like when you got an STD- those images will be with her forever.

    when my kids get to that point in school i want them to see the pics and if they dont.... im going to get medical books and show them

    break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #38
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 11:14 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : MothandRust

    Reply to : break freemoth, unlike most of the people here i know where you got your information from, and i read the site. im sure you know as well as i do that the person who wrote it was trying to discredit the bible and christianity, things wer taken out of context,Anyone with Google on their computer can find that out. Surely no-one thinks I sat down with a bible and picked out all the verses in the Song of Solomon myself. Yes, and I"ve admitted that there were scriptures taken out of context, then went to elaborate on the scriptures that weren't taken out of context. Such as the following. It's clearly not talking about dressmaking or blah... it's about sex and it's also clear from the text that they weren't married. My point... none really... was just saying is a

    lol i never said you didnt know- we both know you like controvercy and i have no issue with raising the questions

    ive told you what i think of porn, and the naked body- to me there is a huge difference in appreciating the naked body and watching porn

     

    Your other comments on homosexuality. Please see the other thread. this is my porn thread babee!

    well i know, i was adding my thoughts to what was being talked about in the thread- even if it isnt what you intended on having discussed.  lol

    old holborn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #39
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:27/04/2007 11:38 PMCopy HTML

    Reply to : break free

    Reply to : old holbornReply to : MothandRustReply to : earth5Oh yes lets educate them and look at the results more porn more drugs more sex yes that really works.of course it works... You've oversimplified what is a huge topic concerning the rate at which our society has changed and how we as educators are addressing it. The problem with today's society is that we have far too much knowledge and not enough wisdom in which to use it.Are you saying we shouldn't educate our kids?Let me put it this way. Perhaps you were too quick too attack rather than take in what it was I was alluding to. That can happen in taboo subjects such as these. The population has been getting hold of information at an exponential rate and we have overtaken our ability to process it properly. ChrisianityI guess there'

    Good for you bf, I saw those pics 60 yrs ago, and they 've stayed with me..  Of course they would'nt guarantee any thing, as I said, there were still some who went ahead regardless, but there must have been many like me who were impressed. We did'nt need instruction on the mechanics, all kids find that out at an early age, but all kids should have the consequences and the dangers fully explained, and the social responsibility stressed. Is that done in school, Moth?  Removing all the stigmas attached to sex outside marriage does'nt seem to have worked ,it didnt ever work for a minority, now it's the majority who seem to be selfishly indulging in every kind of self gratification, at the expense of the rest of society.

    It's all very well to sneer at religions use of fear of consequences to keep people in check, but fear works.

    "But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #40
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 12:24 AMCopy HTML

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    so to sum up... the human body is a beautiful thing, but not always. Most people should really keep their clothes on, not just for modesty's sake but for the sake of the eyes of the people they may encounter. Me... well, I'm beautiful and it's a shame I have to cover up. Sad for everybody else who misses out on gazing upon my countenance.

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #41
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 12:32 AMCopy HTML

    Shining (albeit a bit tarnished)....

    With regard to your recent series of questions...

    A VERY wise person once said that it is always healthy to continually reassess everything that you believe.

    I have found this to be very sound councel. Always question, always reconsider, always reexamine, always learn, always , always, always!

    To stubbornly adhere to the bible as the basis of everything you believe is dysfunctional, delusional and ignorant.

    Dog.
    "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
    old holborn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #42
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 12:40 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus

    To........whomever this post will concern.....Idon'tblame that guy for walking away from that discussion. (who do u think u are's post)......Good on him. He said "it's not edifying" yeh, but a better description would be that it's not right to talk in that way.... Some issues should bejustfor private reflection- or possibly discussing with your marriage partner...I think you're wrong in saying that....eg: Flowers are beautiful -and so are female's private parts....so let's chat about both....There is a thing called

    I find myself saying Amen to your posts, more and more, particularly this one. All the counter , or anti Christian arguments in the world cant stand against just the smallest amount of faith.You seem to have plenty, and \i admire the way you defend it and stick to your guns. That's a good point about not condoning your sinful, or less than perfect behaviour. \We do tend to try to excuse our often lapses, but if we admit them and keep trying to eradicate them our heart is right, and we are forgiven. Even if we dont agree on what is , or is not sin, we know in our hearts when we've gone beyond the bounds of what is decent, and right or is not in love

    .Keep plugging away, you have us all thinking and the threads are alive, with the sound of shiny music.

    God bless

    "But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
    old holborn Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #43
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 6:32 AMCopy HTML

    This has been an unusual day for me, but very satisfying in its way. I got hooked on the porn thread early this am, and was unable to leave it for long. Neglected the chores, Mrs O.H, walking the dog, and never got to the library to change our books The postings kept coming in thick and fast, the shout box was active, my poor old brain had difficulty coping with it., but it was fascinating.and addictive.

    Now , it's my normal time for reading, or posting, Mrs O.H is tucked up in bed, it's almost time for you guys down under to start the new day,and I have peace and quiet, to muse over the day, without anything coming in. My heads a whirl with the days events, will Mothy and Miss Wooty finish their assignments in time, or are they having to burn the midnight oil? I'm still chuckling over "miss snooty" and "Whineing for Jesus " in the shout box. You guys crack me up with the mixture of reverence and ireverence, humour and sarcasm.

    I must say it's great to be a part of this, theres so much to gain from it, and a lot of enjoyment. I realy liked the post from "who DYTYA" a self styled agnostic, reasonable, sensible, and thought provoking. As was "dogma free". Tolerance, love, and an un-judgemental attitude are all worthy attributes for us all, believers, un believers, and in betweens. How much better the world would be for all of us, if every one had that.

    Good too to find kindred spirits, who arent over prudish, devoid of humour,  have a sense of proportion,and  who are appreciative of the beauty and perfection of all Gods creation, and get pleasure  from  seing what he has created. while having the good sense to judge what are mans perversions, and provoke evil in thought , and deed.,and have nothing to do with them. It was a tricky subject today for some I would imagine, but it was good to bring it out into the light , and get a slant on it that we'd maybe never considered before.

    At times Ive wondered if it was wise to get involved in this forum, bearing in mind the instruction " Avoid Godless chatter,  for those who indulge in it will become more and more un- Godly" But I find on the whole, it's far from Godless, God is not lessened, but up-held by those who love and serve Him. And the others , well they stir us lazy ones out of our apathy, and provoke us to fight the good fight , and remind us of our failability.

    Now I've got to burn some midnight oil, and prepare tomorrows worship, and song, I'm privilaged to be leading again. I'll have you all in mind, and  in my prayers, ( wether or not you believe,) no names, no pack drill, Moth. Way Too Happy 

    God bless all.





    "But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
    prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #44
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 8:31 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus

    Thanks for answering my questions dog! seriously...It is informative. Can you others please answer them too??? -I can then see where you are all coming from...I firmly believe that those above issues .....(abortion/all sex is ok/homosexuality/and porn)...are wrong now...I never did cover up my previous"real" beliefs after becoming a Christian. I changed my belief system to align with God's word on these matters...and I strongly believe thatI havethe right view now.
    Fully agree with you Shining for Jesus. As for Mothy saying he instinctly agreed with homosexuality as ok, to me demonstrates he never really had a Christian conversion. I was once where he is now but thankfully see things clearer now. I also have expierience with ex homosexuals who have truly found Christ and are revolted with anything to do with homosexuality and tell me they are much happier in a normal life. One person  who is an ex homosexual woman said that the reason she believes so many homosexuals have drug problems is because they are not happy with their lives. She got off drugs not long after leaving a homosexual life of many years and knows of several others with similar experience. It worries me where I work hearing lezos trying to convert happy married women to their filthy lifestyle, as if it is wrong to be hetrosexual but if a hetrosexual tries to tell them their wrong there acused of being a narrow minded biggot! Our instincts are of fallen man and sometimes need to be suppressed, if I followed all of my instincts I would be in jail for murder by now. Keep up the good work Shining for Jesus.
    ¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #45
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 9:59 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to : prezy

    As for Mothy saying he instinctly agreed with homosexuality as ok, to me demonstrates he never really had a Christian conversion.

    Buzzzz... wrong answer prezy

    It's not for you to judge and it's not for me to go through the details of my conversion to convince you of it, ok? Do you want to make this about how we classify a christian as to their genuinness of the conversion process. I'd be happy to. that's primarily what this forum is about. Join in at another thread to continue that line of thought please. Perhaps you could explain in further detail how and why I was never truly as good a christian as you must certainly be and extrapolate on yet another deviation in what constitutes a christian. Sinners prayer... tongues... baptism... lay down one's life... heart to the lord. Yeah I did all those things... and I was dedicated to God, and the holy spirit and the whole holy gang. So let's start there from where we left off elsewhere.

    I'd also like to keep homosexuality in the other thread as well. This is about porn... but if you insist. Loving Christians who hate homosexuals as if it's the worst kind of sin. Christians don't call this hate, they call it hate for the sin... then they go to gay funerals and applaud. Most of you live in a fools paradise with truly no idea of the wider world around you... sitting in pews on a Sunday morning singing into the air and being intolerant for anyone who doesnt care to join you.

    The struggle gay people have who are indoctrinated by christians is against the perceived sin, not against their humanity. Their struggle is to see themselves as worthy of love and respect; from the hardened christian literalists as yourself. And it's a struggle to decide how to live their lives. how to appropriately express, or not express, sexuality." These are the same "struggles" all people have, no matter what their sexual orientation, and in this sense being "gay" or "straight" makes no difference.

     

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #46
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 10:00 AMCopy HTML

    Hello all.....to dog; I disagree with your last post.

    I think you are narrow minded to accuse me and others of sticking to the bible...regarding our beliefs.

    I have consciously chosen my set of beliefs. I really do believe in this stuff I say. Just because I got all these ideas from the Bible...does that make me ( as u say-delusional etc)????

    No way.

    I'm glad to have some support on here from you guys...old holborn and prezy.  It's good to have people that understand you around!!

    So good on ya's for speaking up. (as I stated before- it's often us...that get judged more for our beliefs!!!!) People seem to want us to be quiet and keep our views to ourself- incase we upset someone.

    Remember John the Baptist told herod that it was not lawful for him to have Herodias as his wife. (she was his brothers wife...)

    So Herodias put him in prison to shut him up. They then ended up chopping off his head and putting it on a platter.....

    So when you speak the truth of God....some people will start chucking a wobbly and you will probably be persecuted!!! (eg- You are narrow minded...delusional...a bigot.....holier than thou....brainwashed.....stupid....uneducated...have no empathy.... etc)--luckily we just normally get persecuted by words here in Australia!!!

    Ps- Mothburger....stop ranting about those supposed Christians who do the signs in America-(I think it's Fred Phelps' group ay)...signs at Abortion clinics, homosexual and ex-army men's funerals.... They seem to be full of hate...smiling so widely... as they tell people they are going to hell.  All us Christians are not like that. We are not all full of hate.

     

     

    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #47
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 10:39 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus


    I really do believe in this stuff I say. Just because I got all these ideas from the Bible...does that make me ( as u say-delusional etc)????No way.

    Well it does depending on how one views god and the bible as delusional... take a very popular book recently, "The God Delusion". The bible is a book written by men and can't be proven otherwise... I'd love to have a go at proving it otherwise. I'll make another thread on that... I think we're ready for it.

    Comic for Jan 22, 2007

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    Tiffany Roche Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #48
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    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 11:02 AMCopy HTML

    That comic is a crack up mothboy!!!  I loved it..It really makes you think!!!!

    I guess we Christians just have to try as hard as we can to obey what we think the Bible teaches.  We have to trust in Jesus- that He has- and will cleanse us from all our sins....

    The God I know from the Bible is full of love, mercy, forgiveness and grace---toward His people that want to follow Him.

    ..but He seems to not show willful unbelievers the same level of compassion...

    I think a person should believe that Jesus is their Saviour-(that He died for their sins)...and rose again to give them new life...

    They should then read and obey the teachings in the new testament...  and do good....and behave themselves....

    I don't think anyone will really have it all sussed out here on earth-(about how to live perfectly for Jesus)....but I know that we are all on a journey...and Jesus is always helping us to shine brighter and behave better...and be more loving...and have more understanding etc... It is a process.... You don't just get saved and become perfect over night!..... The Lord works in our lives ...He guides us into the truth...he shows us the way to walk...He leads us to Eternal  life.....

    ...No doubt we will all mess up...If we claim to have no sin...we are liars...the good thing is that when we confess our sin to Him...and repent...he is faithful and true...and will forgive us from all our unrighteousness!!!!! God is so good!

    ....and we gotta Love God with all we've got    ....and love our neighbours (everyone!!!) as ourselves.    (We know that the law and Prophets were hung on those two commands...)

    We just gotta try our hardest to enter thru the narrow gate... Maybe some of us will be turned away by Jesus..."Lord, Lord did we not do this and this etc"......Jesus says..".Get away from me..I never knew you... and u who practice lawlessness."

    If it is hard for the righteous to be saved...where does the ungodly and the sinner appear????

    Let's not give up living for God...let's not tire of doing good.

    Let us keep following the Lord as best as we can.... We can do it!!!! Jesus will give us the strength to walk with Him..until the day of His return... He will cover our sins...and be our Saviour...   Jesus is Lord!!! Thankyou mighty God!

    I'm glad that He is my God. That He is the light that guides me. That He is my truth. He leads my way in this life. Without Him ...I would be lost!!!  He is my hope!....He's my rock!! my support!!! my refuge!!!!   He is my Helper!!!!!!  He is my everything!!!! Amen.

    MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #49
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    • Register:27/02/2004 11:21 PM

    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 11:50 AMCopy HTML

    Reply to : Shining for Jesus

    That comic is a crack up mothboy!!! I loved it..It really makes you think!!!!I guess we Christians just have to try as hard as we can to obey what we think the Bible teaches. We have to trust in Jesus- that He has- and will cleanse us from all our sins....The GodI know from the Bible is full of love, mercy, forgivenessand grace---toward His people that want to follow Him...but He seems tonotshow willful unbelievers the same level of compassion...I think a person should believe that Jesus is their Saviour-(that He died for their sins).

    Okay... just one more... in the spirit of the topic.

     ignore the Catholic dogma

    Comic for Jan 22, 2007

    [LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
    Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #50
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    • Register:05/04/2003 2:38 PM

    Re:Porn again... Cam porn can be found in the bible?

    Date Posted:28/04/2007 1:31 PMCopy HTML

    Where on earth did this thread come from? Sex truly does sell. Actually, I'm lost for words. I will be moving the thread into the bible and beliefs room by day's end. It is a truly enjoyable read and I applaud the honesty and frankness I have witnessed here. The thread has been noticed by many and has been quite though provoking. It has also brought out the best and worst in some people.

    I have received complaints and I'm going to act on one of them in particular. I'm not at liberty to say who or why. I'm an emotional person and I truly can't bear the thought of any of this forum's content hurting someone as deeply as it has in the past, and has again now, by the very types of religious dogma I've chosen to expose.

    Shine for Jesus. You once stated you were 'over it' and I blocked your entry into the forum after you deleted all your work. Moth, Break Free and others rallied to persuade you to come back, but I think it was best you went about your business elsewhere. I believe wholeheartedly that you have the best interests of others in mind and although you are somewhat callow in the way you state your opinions you are certainly entitled to them. I hope you feel you've said everything you need to.

    I'm sorry. There's discretion involved and you may cry cult and conspiracy, but to put it very simply, I'm letting you go. You're chasing away business. Thank you so much for your input thus far and feel free to e-mail me at a later date for more information.

    Hoping you understand but thinking you won't

    Regards Moddy

    ----------------------------------

    * EDIT *

    There were no complaints about the content of this thread, btw. There was, surprisingly, a complaint about an image in a separate thread though.

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