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dogmafree
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Date Posted:18/02/2007 8:50 PMCopy HTML

Having just read a new post by 'break free', I feel compelled to bring up the name of this dangerous man that heads the RF in Perth.I have experienced myself and have heard of many people who have been 'ministered to' by this guy. Kevin has all the outward appearances of a well mannered, dedicated overseer of the assemblies under his control. He may well be a nice guy and sincere in many ways, but DO NOT BE DECEIVED!.....He has the wisdom of a rodent when it comes to 'councelling' those with troubles or managing people's issues that may come to his attention. He is all the more dangerous because of the subtlety of his ways. He appears to apply scriptural justice in whatever situation, but exhibits no real empathy or human understanding of the person's circumstances whatsoever. Decisions are made stoickly, and people a cast aside like garbage if they don't 'fit the mould' of prescribed assembly behaviour.Appearances can be so deceptive. The man is quite a nice guy and means well. But he is entrenched so deeply in the fog of RF doctrine, that he can't see past his nose. How very, very sad! And this is meant to be the man guiding the WA RF 'vision'. God help them all!Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:18/02/2007 10:57 PMCopy HTML

you know i found it intersting reading some of the forum topics that pr kevins oldest son is no longer a member of the church- i know one of the reasons he didnt want my brother in law baptised was that he was activly trying to discorage young people getting married (sorta crazy when there is a strict no sex befor marrige rule it kinda encorages young marriges,,,) but he didnt want his sons getting married young an then his oldest got cought having sex- im sure all those who were forced to get married were supprised when he wasnt forced to get married or excomunicated, i know he was put out for a while an had to hang out in the car during survices

is he realy a nice guy? i never noticed

set free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:19/02/2007 9:29 AMCopy HTML

well, it's one thing to discuss the way KQ has acted in the past, but lets be really careful not to talk too much about other people's personal business (i.e. his son).

I'm actually even sorry for what I wrote about KQ. Not that it's not true, but it's something I have dealt with and put in the past. Certain things resurfaced just after I left RF, but once again, i've looked to the Lord and he has given me peace about it.

What KQ said to us was not damaging to us, because it did not cause us to turn from God or give up altogether. In fact, when we looked at the word of God the night before we spoke to him I found the scripture that is my signature, which became a great protection for us against the words that he spoke. The only thing that concerns me is that he's still at large saying those same things to others.

But what can we do? How can we stop the things he's saying? I don't think that WE can do anything, we just need to trust that nothing will be kept secret that will not be revealed. It's in the Lord's timing, which can be a little bit frustrating for people who seek justice done straight away. It's a matter of letting the Lord fight our battles, and knowing that God the Righteous Judge will deal with everything that's been done under the sun when the time comes.

People will always do and say stupid things, it's inevitable. How much influence we allow their words and actions to have on us is ultimately up to us. I'm not saying that it's easy - being manipulated and spiritually abused is an awful thing - but if we can try and have a positive attitude about it and let God take care of those people in his time, we will have SO much more peace.

P.S. I was talking to myself here too ;-)
http://www.myspace.com/theiheartrevolution
theiheartrevolution.com

"THE REVOLUTIONARY EMPIRE OF GOD IS HERE - ADVANCING BY RECONCILIATION AND PEACE; EXPANDING BY FAITH; HOPE AND LOVE, BEGINNING WITH THE POOREST AND THE LEAST. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING - BE PART OF THE REVOLUTION...

Brian D. McClaren (paraphresed)

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your Kingdom"s cause
As I walk from earth into eternity
dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:19/02/2007 8:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free



is he realy a nice guy? i never noticed





I can appreciate that with your experience of Kevin, you probably wouldn't think so. What I'm trying to say is that Kevin has all the outward appearances of a dedicated Pastor and family man, with good scriptural knowledge, and a sincere concern for people's welfare. I think he means well, but as overseer of the RF, he makes the assembly his first priority (its reputation and appearances) and is heartless when it comes to dealing with people.


the Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:22/04/2007 8:59 PMCopy HTML

I just want to stick my opinion in here...PK is OK.

He was my pastor at Revival Fellowship's Yangebup meeting from early 2000 -until early 2007.

He was normally quite serious and used scripture to back up most of what he said. ( I guess that's how we all get talked into thinking that some of their doctrines are right though!)

Anyway- he was a well respected man- who seems to behave in a godly way. I have not heard of  much criticism about him from many people.

I do understand that he may have changed over the years- hopefully for the better...(like all Christians would have.) ...Some things I've heard make me think that he may be a lot nicer now then he was before.  It  probably took some time to adjust some things after Pastor Allen Thomas died.

I heard PK sing a song at a camp once, in Dunsborough- probably about 5 years ago. He sung it to the tune of "Tears in Heaven", by Eric Clapton...and I think his youngest son played guitar(don't quote me).... anyway...

It was so beautiful- I was touched- and I think many were. You could just see that he loves the people in his church. He sung about looking after us all, and helping us to get to heaven... He is so sincere. He seems to devote his life to helping people and preaching the word...(even though I think some of their doctrines are wrong...)

He definitely loves God and tries his hardest to serve Him.

I've seen him really help me out with advice, and with helping my friends and family in their walks with God...and he did our wedding.

Good on ya Pastor Kevin....

....but

Please can you let your sheep (the members of your congregation) listen to some other opinions on the doctrines that you and Revival teach so strongly.

Can you tell them that you may be wrong in the doctrines that you so surely put forward. 

 And can you please stop telling people it's evil to leave Revival!  - because it's not! 

Can you encourage the members to seek information- yes, even from the internet...don't be so scared that they will 'fall away' from God- if they hear that you may not have to speak in tongues to be saved, and hear people preaching  a Scriptural view against that.

I  think a lot of your members have put their trust  in  tongues-( instead of trusting in Jesus) for their salvation...

 

Let's all seriously pray for PK to have his mind and heart opened by the Lord Jesus!!!!!!!!! (It may take a while...he has been indoctrinated since he was about 12...and now he's about 50...)   Nothing is impossible for God!

 

 

 

set free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:23/04/2007 8:47 AMCopy HTML

Well, I find it hard to completely agree with your respect for him because of the side of him that I've seen, but it is true that he is doing what he believes is the best thing for the church.

He is very convicted that fear is the best method of control and I've realised that the only reason he threatens and yells at people is to prevent them from doing things that God isn't happy with. He is quite renowned for his tactics though, when one of my family members mentioned what KQ had said to us to an RF pastor on the east coast (without mentioning it was in perth, or the pastors name) and the east coast RF pastor instantly new who he was talking about and said that he was constantly butting heads with the rest of the council over legalism etc.

I don't believe he cares for his flock the way he should, but I do believe he cares for his flock. I've spoken to other young people that told me that KQ threatened them when they first started going out (when they got "pastorised" / "official") that if they fornicated they would burn in hell. That's not a very loving or truthful approach, ok so it might scare them into not doing it - but if they don't stuff up then they're not doing it for the right reasons!!! We need to honour God and respect his commandments out of love for him and because we want to please him, not coz some big tall guy is glaring down at you and yelling at you about hellfire!!!!

Like I said, I realise that he thinks he is being loving by being a bully, but it's not going to teach people anything about love for Jesus or chosing to make a stand for christ for the right reasons. He actually used to be (self-named) "super spiritual" back in his younger days in melbourne, although when he said that I think he actually just meant that he was over zealous. The problem was that he then took a turn for the worse and was convinced that being super spiritual is bad and that you should be lukewarm. (he didn't use the word lukewarm, but it's what he's become). He told me he believes that if you are super spiritual there will be a pendulum (spelling?) effect and that you will end up going off the rails. That was his experience (letting satan get him down when he was strong) and so that's what he believes will happen to everyone. Because I had gone to perth with a reputation of being "super spiritual" and went to KQ with my husband (when we were going out) and told him we were going to live in perth till the end of the year and that we wanted to try and encourage the younger people to be more involved and full on etc as there were no young evangelists (actually there was only one evangelist in the entire morley assembly and she was in her 70's) and my hubby told him about some stuff that could be improved on in young peoples (i.e. the youngies didn't respect the youngies leader etc). Well, apparently (even though we were ever so humble and I somehow managed to keep my big mouth shut most of the time, coz he didn't strike me as someone who would tolerate a women with as much zeal for the lord as a guy is allowed to have) we "came to him with a holier than thou attitude" just because we went to him telling him we wanted to be involved and help out and encourage people!!!!???? When we went to him to get put out (and told we'd burn in hell) he told us he knew this would happen because we were acting like we were all holy and good. Anyway... I better get back to work before I get too worked up.
http://www.myspace.com/theiheartrevolution
theiheartrevolution.com

"THE REVOLUTIONARY EMPIRE OF GOD IS HERE - ADVANCING BY RECONCILIATION AND PEACE; EXPANDING BY FAITH; HOPE AND LOVE, BEGINNING WITH THE POOREST AND THE LEAST. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING - BE PART OF THE REVOLUTION...

Brian D. McClaren (paraphresed)

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your Kingdom"s cause
As I walk from earth into eternity
dogmafree Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:24/04/2007 1:02 AMCopy HTML

Hey there Shining..........

You have demonstrated EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

So much of what you are saying is very true. Kevin is a sincere, well meaning guy. That's just why he is so dangerous. It is easy to be led by such a leader. One who is dedicated and committed to the ministery, as that is all he has known. The objectives and values he holds to are his whole life. They are the only way he knows to live, and he makes it seem so right!

The thing is, he is blind to the fact that what he is so committed to is a GREAT BIG DECEPTIVE ILLUSION. As has been demonstrated and expounded in many ways on this forum, the RF mindset is twisted and dysfunctional, and leads to all sorts of social problems, to say the least.

So, since Kevin is an intelligent, articulate, well-presented representative of this regime, he is by definition an agent of deception. He can string together scripture after scripture to reinforce his position. He can make joining and staying in the RF seem reasonable and desirable. That is of course, unless you get on his wrong side. But then if you are on his wrong side, its always YOU that is the wrong one!............

Get the picture?

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:24/04/2007 8:48 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Shining for Jesus

He definitely loves God and tries his hardest to serve Him.

I believe the same could be said about the vast majority - if not all - the leaders of RF. Unfortunately, the same could be said about Saul of Tarsus prior to his conversion, too.

Let's all seriously pray for PK to have his mind and heart opened by the Lord Jesus!!!!!!!!! (It may take a while...he has been indoctrinated since he was about 12...and now he's about 50...)   Nothing is impossible for God!

Yeah, let's pray (in accordance with God's will) that he, the other RF leaders, and the other RF members hear the gospel. But let's remember that God (as I understand it) has given us what we perceive to be free choice in our response to Him.

 

 

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:26/04/2007 6:35 PMCopy HTML

Good ol Pastor Kevin...

I do remember clearly a time when I was driving with him years ago to a Church activity in the early 1990s and he told me matter of factly that he KNEW his Children would NEVER leave TRF.

He believed he had scriptural basis for the assertion:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it" - prov 22:6

he said so matter of factly at the time. He simply had not computed in his mind at any stage that his kids would dare leave his church!

I can only imagine how he must feel now his eldest has departed the TRF.

Like most religions of the world, the Revivalist regimes belittle life as we know it, thinking it is all just some 'test' to a higher power.

...and I am sorry, the concept that some person will spend 20 billion years in hellfire with eternity of pain and anguish still to look forward to is ridiculous at best to me.

We are human creatures and hence not robots or clones of some higher power.

I believe the edict of hell is all about motivating armies to kill other humans and risk their own lives in the name of 'god'etc. "otherwise you will suffer eternal damnation".

The USA and Western countries used god as a wartime motivation now in Iraq, just like the muslim nations do. nothing like a rabid belief system to send more humans to the slaughterhouse eh.

Its easier to inspire people to be killed and maimed under the cloud of such threats...

I think this quote sums it best:

"Humans can commit only a finite amount of sin, yet Hell is an infinite punishment, and some believe that few (if any) people deserve such punishment. Others have noted that Heaven is also not deserved, for nothing we do in a finite mortal life could merit eternal bliss."

Kevin Quirk may be fundamentally a nice guy, however he controls a CULT.

Deeeano. :-)
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:27/04/2007 6:30 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Deanoz

Humans can commit only a finite amount of sin, yet Hell is an infinite punishment, and some believe that few (if any) people deserve such punishment. Others have noted that Heaven is also not deserved, for nothing we do in a finite mortal life could merit eternal bliss."

Not denying the atrocities committed in the name of God, including by RF, but it seems to me that the 20th century clearly showed that it's not belief in God that's the source of the problem. Consider:
- Stalin
- Hitler
- Mao
- Pol Pot

RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:27/04/2007 8:10 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

... left out a few obvious psychotics

No doubt. Can't comment on the mental state of JFK or Churchill, but I wouldn't have included them as I believe they were, or may have been, Christian.

I can't agree - for me - that, "There is no cause that can justify killing anyone." I would certainly consider consider it as an option for dealing with someone physically confronting my family with a gun and threatening to kill them. (Not that I could fight my way out of a wet paper bag, and I've never owned a gun.)

I tell people I'm not a pacifist, just a coward :-) Fortunately I've never been faced with the prospect you faced during your conscription.

RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:28/04/2007 3:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

 

Hi


So you are saying that if they were Christians it was OK to mass murder? Like JFK with the Bay of Pigs and escalating the Vietnam war, Winston Churchill fire bombing Dresden, Hamburg and Liepzig which were civilian, not strategic military targets. I would not describe that as Christian behaviour. I would describe it as mass murder.


My original point was that "it's not belief in God that's the source of the problem". I suspect JFK and Churchill may have been Christian, so it could have been argued that their atrocities were committed because of their belief in God. Therefore if I'd included them I wouldn't have been demostrating my thesis. Therefore I wouldn't have included them. I'm certainly not saying, "Fire bombing a city is OK because it was ordered by a Christian."

I respect your decision. My current beliefs are based on reading the Bible, prayerful meditation, and reading on the subject ... not just my denominational heritage.

If your confusion is more than rhetorical, and you haven't read him, maybe you could read Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

 

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:29/04/2007 7:57 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Good morning, mailboy.

A post with an Army theme (oh joy!)

I was conscripted during the Vietnam war, but fortunately didn't go to Vietnam to kill people I had never met for some sociopath cause.

Lucky you There's a saying that does the rounds from time-to-time, "...we in the Australian Army defend democracy, we don't practice it." In other words, given that our Army has been, for a few decades now, a strictly voluntary force, soldiers don't get to choose when and where (or why) they are deployed. And, FWIW, I've seen first hand quite a bit of graphic carnage that's been perpetrated by a range of sociopaths against their own people. Armies such as ours have had a hand in mitigating these sorts of abuses.

I made Second Lieutenant.

Do tell

Forget the rubbish that we are brainwashed with, the average officers and NCOs I ever met couldn't throw their hats on the ground without missing....I include myself amongst them.

Ah, yes. The 'myth' of the Aussie digger. Well, my experiences are, likely as not, a little more recent on this score, and (it would seem) they're quite a bit different from your own. Personally, I've found the 'average' ARA digger to be a reasonable shot, with many of my acquaintance being rather proficient marksmen (and I include myself among them)

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:29/04/2007 8:09 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Mailboy, once more.

I am confused..... was it "provisional" when Jesus said "But I say unto you that you resist not evil, whosoever shall smite you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also". But if we choose to, we can vary that to suit the situation? Hmmm how Pentecostal, how Protestant, how Catholic etc etc etc

And do you honestly believe that Jesus' teachings on the subject are exhausted by the one passage that you've hinted at above?

I have killed and lived with the guilt.

Let me suggest that you aren't the only person who has taken the life of another human being, nor are you the only Christian who has done so.

Jesus blood washed away my sin. But I know killing is evil and has no part in the deeds of Christians.

And I would aver, 'not so'. Not all killing is necessarily sinful or evil in, and of itself (the position of Scripture). As distasteful as it always is, sometimes it's necessary to take the life of another person. And I'm of the opinion that it's preferable to entrust this responsibility to those whose moral and ethical systems are forged by the reality that man is created in the image of God.

My two cents (also from personal experience).

God bless,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:29/04/2007 7:17 PMCopy HTML

Moddy,

I seem to have started an off-topic conversation. What about moving the posts starting with my 28/4/2007 post to a different thread?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:30/04/2007 3:35 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Hi, Mailboy.

I have ruminated on your words for a day or so. Killing for ANY Christian is a grevious sin. In Australia the "The Democrats" rally against war yet openly encourage abortion. What a distorted belief system. Sadly the party has a majority of women. One in three pregnancies in Australia is terminated by this kind of murder. Three generations of my family have gone to war for king and country to be used as gun fodder for some psychotic like Winston Churchill.

Your views on the subject are your own. But as one who has more than just a superficial understanding of the matter, I would suggest that your views aren't as representative of the biblical teaching as you currently think.

I did not say nor allude to Jesus' teachings being exhausted by one passage. I don;t believe that you are that niaive, nor think I am. War and killing is UTTERLY against the teachings of Jesus Christ.

To be sure, but it's altogether another matter to claim, as you have, that Christians are prevented from serving in capacities that might require them to legally take human lives, if and when warranted.

But, as it is written "in the mouth of two or three witnesses, evey word shall be established" (Deuteronomy 19:15). So here they are.....

No, here we find your preferred proof-texts, gathered together in an attempt to justify your personal views.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)

Jesus was referring, above, to his followers fighting in order to prevent him from being handed over to the Jews. He says nothing whatsoever on the matter we are currently considering, so you've sought to make John 18:36 support something it doesn't even address.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

Try Jesus' words in Matthew 10:34, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword!"

Or what are we to make of Jesus' words in Luke 22:36(b) and 38, "And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one...And they said, 'look, Lord, here are two swords.' And he said to them, 'It is enough.'"

And then we must confront Revelation 19:15, "from his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron." Jesus, Jesus, meek and mild?

And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3:18)

True enough. We Christians are called to be peacemakers. And sometimes it's necessary to make peace in order to have peace.

From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. (James 4: 1 and 2)

The 'warring' that James is discussing in the above passage is the 'warring' that Christians face against worldliness. Again, this passage says nothing about the subject under discussion.

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds (2 Corinthians 10:3 and 4)

Once again you've simply wrested a biblical text from its context to make a pretext of a proof-text. The above passage says nothing about the subject currently under discussion.

And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Micah 4:3)

Yep, but that time hasn't come yet.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord. (Isaiah 2:4)

This is a parallel text to the one in Micah. My comment above, equally apply to this instance.

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)

The Sermon on the Mount distills what are known as 'Kingdom Ethics'. In other words, these will be the 'currency' of Christ's rule when it is fully inaugurated on the earth. They're certainly the model to base our conduct on, and they remain a standard to aim for, but the time of their 'currency' is not yet come.

Now, brother, here are a few off Scriptures off the top of my head that you, perhaps, should have considered:

Matthew 8:5-13 (Luke 7:1-10). Notice that Jesus praised the Centurion for his faith. Also notice that he didn't rebuke him for his occupation.

Acts 10:1-43. Cornelius, surprise, surprise, was a Roman Centurion. His business was the waging of war(and in spite of this, God found him to be a righteous man).

Romans 13:1-7. The 'sword' is placed by God into the 'hands' of the government so as to execute God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

In short, I would suggest that yours is not a position that's based strictly on what Scripture teaches, so much as it's based on a very specific philosophical point of view.

I was not alluding to accuracy with a weapon. I had good training and proficiency with the L1A1 rifle. I received an award for marksmanship as did many of my troop. I was refering to the fact that the officers choose scum who will gladly bully their mates and make them sergeants and eventually warrant officers.

Really? Well, I've been a commissioned officer in the Australian Regular Army for about 17 years now, and I've never in all that time encountered any soldier being promoted for any reason other than he or she having met the established requirements: time in rank, successful completion of all the necessary promotion courses, exemplary reporting history, appropriate posting profile, etc. And the fact is, individual officers can't promote soldiers to the rank of Sergeant or higher. They simply don't have the authority to do so.

I stopped a friend from bayoneting a warrant officer who pushed him over the edge. The warrant officer then turned on me. A little while later I was accepted for officer training and much to my surprise I was in due time commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant. Thanks to Gough Whitlam not long after that, National Service was abolished. What did I learn from Nato and the army in general? It is the haven of sociopaths, morons and misfits.

I obviously can't comment on your short three or four years experience of the National Service 'Army' of some thirty years past. But I can assure you of this: sociopaths, morons and misfits are neither accepted nor tolerated in the Army that I've known through almost two decades of first-hand service. Your opinion, to be blunt, if applied today, is wrong.

In the middle ages, if your son was a misfit or simple-minded you put him in the church or the army. Not much has changed.

It sounds to me as if your mindset on the matter also derives from the Middle Ages. Brother, I've found your views to be interesting, but truly misinformed of the facts as they stand.

God bless,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 8:10 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Mailboy, once more.

I said: The Sermon on the Mount distills what are known as 'Kingdom Ethics'. In other words, these will be the 'currency' of Christ's rule when it is fully inaugurated on the earth. They're certainly the model to base our conduct on, and they remain a standard to aim for, but the time of their 'currency' is not yet come.

Of course not. Shall I call Pontius for the water basin? You explain away scriptures cleverly. Only you rightly divide them, which of course in no way justify your personal views!

I don't believe I explain away anything. I simply interpret Scripture according to its range of contexts, which is, of course, "rightly dividing the word of truth." You clearly don't like this (or, for that matter, being told that your own approach to Scripture is wrong), but that's really more an issue for you to address.

My views of course are "superficial". Come, come. Surely you can be more patronising than that, why not add the words "sonny" or "my boy" or "lad". I ask you though, do not try to belittle me then call me brother. You don't think of me as your brother, but some minion, it is what you were trained to do.

It certainly hasn't been my intent to patronise you, however, your views on this subject are superficial, and I think I've demonstrated as much. I've simply pointed out your error, to which you've taken offense.

Sociopaths not in the modern Australian Army? Would that be the same army that accepted and psychologically tested and accepted Julian Knight into the Royal Military College Duntroon? He underwent the usual bastardisation and was spat out of the system, then went on to mass murder in Hoddle Street. I remarked at the time to my wife and friends that I was not surprised. Had he been able to dodge the bastardisation he probably would have gone on to make a fine military leader.

Again, you clearly have no first hand knowledge of the matter. The initial psychological screening process for entry into the Army takes about half an hour. Knight managed to get through that, but remember, it was simply the first pass. The initial appointment training for officer cadets at the time was three years, which proves to be plenty of time to weed out the unsuitable. Mr Knight was soon identified as having altogether the wrong sorts of 'qualities' only a few weeks into his basic training. Consequently, his appointment was placed into the review process, which has to be not only fair to all concerned, but it also has to be seen to be fair. Knight was cautioned, counselled, and provided with opportunities to demonstrate more 'appropriate' qualities (bearing in mind he was 18 years old at the time, if I remember correctly). In any case,he failed to do so. In fact, he went so far ast to assault another cadet soon thereafter, and consequently, his appointment was terminated and he was removed from Duntroon. Now you've spoken at length of 'bastardisation'. Well, unlike you, I'm actually a graduate of the Royal Military College, Duntroon. I've been through the entire process myself. And I can assure you that your views are not representative of reality. As for Julian Knight, he never would have made it through the course so as to graduate a commissioned officer. So he never would have been given the opportunity to make any sort of military leader, 'fine' or otherwise.

Or perhaps you are speaking of the Australian Army from which a recent Captain and accomplices smuggled a large quantity of rocket launchers some of which it is alleged were on sold to terrorists. How did he "meet the established requirements: time in rank, successful completion of all the necessary promotion courses, exemplary reporting history, appropriate posting profile, etc.?"

Well, I happen to know that particular Captain personally (and likely as not, more of the details of the entire affair than do you). Clearly I'm not in the position to divulge any information on the matter, but said Captain had enjoyed a very successful and illustrious career through to warrant officer before he was commissioned from the ranks at the beginning of this year. Further, let's not forget that he was caught, and that he has yet to go through the justice process

What trite garbage. "I have seen servants upon horses, and princes walking as servants upon the earth" (Ecclesiastes 10:7)

Brother, it isn't me who is spewing forth 'trite garbage' without benefit of first hand knowledge.

Two witnesses enough? Will I site the man (who had gone to school wiith my son) that got his leg broken at ADFA in a initiation prank.

I wouldn't know. In any case, initiation pranks, you should understand, are strictly forbidden at all Army training establishments. Officer Cadets face Courts Martial and dismissal should they so engage. Was such the case in this instance?

Or how about the man from the same establishment who asked my daughter to partner her at the graduation ball. Later in the evening she rang my brother who lives in Canberra to come and resucue her, because she had fled after being mauled by the graduated officer and was frightened of being raped, by him in a drunken arge.

Again, I wouldn't know. However, did your daughter report the matter to the appropriate authorities? Had she done so, I can assure you that the young man in question would no longer be serving at Her Majesty's discretion. But here is a point for you to reflect upon: the Army is just a microcosm of our wider society. Given that we draw our manning from our society, every so often we wind up getting a 'bad un'. Perhaps unlike our wider society, however, the military has proven processes in place to regulate and mitigate the effects of anti-social behaviour. Further, we have a very low tolerance threshold for people who seek to denigrate what we stand for, from within. Consequently, we don't turn a blind eye to such behaviour, we punish and where possible, we rehabilitate. Should rehabilitation prove unlikely, then we reject. Simple.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Same scum, different bucket ,drawn from the well at a different time.

And yet, you have the temerity to accuse me of being judgmental. Well, never let the truth stand in the way of a good belly ache, I suppose.

You are wasted in the army, you could do stand up comedy, with your routine.

Apparently not

You may patronise and brush me aside from your self righteous stand of excusing murder in any form, but when we all learn to turn the other cheek and do no more violence and trust God that vengance belongs to God alone the world will be a better place.

Well, from what I've seen thus far, you seem incapable of turning the other cheek, yourself. Further, it seems to me that you suffer greatly from an inability to forgive past wrongs (whatever they may have been). Perhaps, then, it might be best if you take a small break from seeking to speak on behalf of the Master? You tend to 'skew' his message by your attitude and you actions.

My views are not those of the middle ages as you snidely remark. I am just a pilgrim passing through this age.

I do wonder if, whilst on your journey, you spend as much time looking forwards as you do back?

You anger me. But this must too be put under. I shall pray for you. I pray God grants me patience, like Jesus when he said not "I'll get you for this", but "Forgive then Father, for they know not what they do". I will pray that for you too.

Thank you. So that you know, you don't anger me Mailboy, seek out the truth. It does have a way of setting us free.

God bless,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 10:21 AMCopy HTML

Gents, with you having steered this thread right away from it's original topic, I might as well join in....

I have an outsider's perception of this issue of the mentality that is fostered in the armed forces. I have a brother-in-law in the Aussie Army that has served in Africa, East Timor and in Iraq. I also have known a family with the (now divorced) husband in the SAS.

It seems clear to me that the army has an indoctination and carefully manipulated mindset that is instilled into its subjects. Some may call this 'brainwashing' and it has many parrallels with the kind of mind-control that we have experienced within the revival churches. Of course there are big differences too, but it is mind-control nevertheless.

What I've observed is a kind of 'us & them' mentality where they feel they are on a very different level to 'civilians'. Now this may not be a bad thing and perhaps is a necessary conditioning for them to prepare for what their careers may involve. Its just that I am quite wary of the potential damaging affects of any kind of 'brainwashing'. Like us emerging from a revival cult after many years of isolated existance, there may be difficulties experienced by those that have trouble 'assimilating' into society after time in the forces. There are probably all sorts of issues at play here.

Also, I see a lot of relationship breakdowns in the army, including my bro-in-law's first marriage to his first wife that also is in the army. Just my observations. Any comments?


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 11:02 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : dogmafree

Hi, Dog.

Gents, with you having steered this thread right away from it's original topic, I might as well join in....

Ah, but this is a conversation, and conversations are rarely so monolithic in content

I have an outsider's perception of this issue of the mentality that is fostered in the armed forces. I have a brother-in-law in the Aussie Army that has served in Africa, East Timor and in Iraq. I also have known a family with the (now divorced) husband in the SAS.

At least you've been honest enough to admit that yours is an outsider's perspective. In any case, lots of people in the Army have served in Africa (the Western Sahara, Somalia, Rawanda and such forth), East Timor and Iraq over the years. Actually, a growing number of us have served in several theatres over the years. And, FWIW, I too know one or two blokes with service in the SASR myself. "Who knows, grins"

It seems clear to me that the army has an indoctination and carefully manipulated mindset that is instilled into its subjects.

This is your outsider's perspective? Okay, but so does McDonalds.

Some may call this 'brainwashing' and it has many parrallels with the kind of mind-control that we have experienced within the revival churches.

Really? Who calls inculturation into the Services 'brainwashing'? And on what is this assertion quid-pro-quo 'Revivalism' based?

Of course there are big differences too, but it is mind-control nevertheless.

No, the word that you might be looking for is discipline. And this quality is vital, given that it provides the capacity to follow through with tasks in spite of harsh conditions, distasteful circumstances, and the significant risks involved.

What I've observed is a kind of 'us & them' mentality where they feel they are on a very different level to 'civilians'. Now this may not be a bad thing and perhaps is a necessary conditioning for them to prepare for what their careers may involve.

You just might be partially right on this score. Consider: how many civilians do you know who are regularly exposed to death and destruction as part of their day-to-day employment? Ambulance officers, doctors, the police and perhaps a few others? Now how many of these occupations are called upon to apply lethal force as their raison d'etre? Not many, I'd wager. I suppose this might just place soldiers on a slightly different level to the average civilian.

Its just that I am quite wary of the potential damaging affects of any kind of 'brainwashing'.

Do you watch television? Then you're potentially being brainwashed. Do you read newspapers, magazines or novels? Then you're potentially being brainwashed. Have you received an education? Then you have been brainwashed

Like us emerging from a revival cult after many years of isolated existance, there may be difficulties experienced by those that have trouble 'assimilating' into society after time in the forces. There are probably all sorts of issues at play here.

There certainly are. Which is why it's not particularly helpful to try and summarise the matter as somehow being the effects of 'indoctrination' or 'brainwashing'.

Also, I see a lot of relationship breakdowns in the army, including my bro-in-law's first marriage to his first wife that also is in the army. Just my observations. Any comments?

Sure. According to the statistical data compiled by the ADF, the rate of divorce within the services is the same as the rate of divorce in the general community. Funny, that

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 11:50 AMCopy HTML

Ian, how well you represent your position and dissect any comments!

I'm quite aware of being 'out of my league' here, but will attempt to explain my comments a little further...

I accept that by the very nature of the ADF's activities, there probably is a necessary 'culturisation' as you put it. And yes, I guess we all are influenced by just about everything we are exposed to. I try therefor to be wary of strong influences of any persuasion.

I just have the feeling that there may be a 'cost' to those who are plunged into this culture. Like the revivalists, they have their lives and thinking very much saturated by the culture. My concern is that this may lead to some being dysfunctional in the world at large and in relationships.

The family I mentioned was a wife and three boys that only saw their husband/father occasionally in between lengthy assignments away. His total commitment to his advancement in the SAS had a tremendous cost to the family. His wife became a very independant mother by necessity and when he was home, he had no ability to relate properly. He was physically and emotionally violent and to his wife, and his sons would hide in fear of him. He ended up finding an Asian lover whilst away on assignment, and left his family to then marry and bring her to Australia. He now has no relationship at all with his sons. Now this is just one sad story, and I know such things can happen in all walks of life, but I can't help feeling that the culture he is immersed in has contributed to his inability to have stable relationships in his life.

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 12:34 PMCopy HTML

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mailboy didn't you attack me recently for commenting on one of Ian's posts? Quite funny.

i have to say that I agree with Ian on this one. I'm not going to comment about any army stuff because I've never been in the army.

I've argued over christians killing people many times with my father. He has always said if someone broke in and hurt me or mum that he would injur or kill them (and yes, he is physically capable of that) but I spent many hours discussing with him that I would rather be killed knowing i was right with God, than kill someone else, even if it were in "hot blood" or self defense. I haven't entirely made up my mind about that yet, but I praise God i haven't been in that situation.
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 12:46 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : dogmafree

Hey again, Dog.

I accept that by the very nature of the ADF's activities, there probably is a necessary 'culturisation' as you put it. And yes, I guess we all are influenced by just about everything we are exposed to. I try therefor to be wary of strong influences of any persuasion.

Sure, we all do, I suppose. But everyone is subject to 'strong influences' in their lives; we are all products of our environments and circumstances.

I just have the feeling that there may be a 'cost' to those who are plunged into this culture. Like the revivalists, they have their lives and thinking very much saturated by the culture. My concern is that this may lead to some being dysfunctional in the world at large and in relationships.

I think it's a very long bow to draw in likening soldiers to Revivalists. And I guess mine is about as informed an opinion on the subject as one can get. To be frank, I reckon you've overstated the effects of the 'military culture', somewhat. In many respects, being a part of the Army is no different to being a part of a competitive sporting team. Both tend to require more than just a passing commitment. And, of course, you'd no doubt agree that personal and relational dysfunction occurs in all occupational and social spheres (not simply churches or Service occupations), and then for a very wide range of contributing reasons.

The family I mentioned was a wife and three boys that only saw their husband/father occasionally in between lengthy assignments away.

Well, I'm sure that my own family would relate. Depending on what one does in the Army, separations can often be lengthy.

His total commitment to his advancement in the SAS had a tremendous cost to the family.

I can assure you that people who are accepted into units such as the SASR go in with their 'eyes wide open' regarding the personal sacrifices that such service requires--there is a reason that they're very carefully selected and trained. I've always maintained that such service is a young, single man's game, myself; marriages need to be strong to work (as do both partners emotionally). But I can assure you that the SASR has arguably the best family support network of any Defence unit; further, the spouses and families there develop what are arguably the strongest friendships and support networks of any organisation that I've ever encountered. In short, it ain't all bad

His wife became a very independant mother by necessity and when he was home, he had no ability to relate properly. He was physically and emotionally violent and to his wife, and his sons would hide in fear of him. He ended up finding an Asian lover whilst away on assignment, and left his family to then marry and bring her to Australia. He now has no relationship at all with his sons. Now this is just one sad story, and I know such things can happen in all walks of life, but I can't help feeling that the culture he is immersed in has contributed to his inability to have stable relationships in his life.

Yours is but one, very sad example. But it certainly isn't the norm. And my own experience of people and their family relationships in that unit is quite the opposite to what you've described. So, I'd suggest that you can't really support a 'sweeping' argument that's built just on isolated examples. To be honest, you simply haven't had the exposure needed to reach the conclusions that you have.

My two cents worth (again)

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 12:48 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Mailboy,

The Lord rebuke thee Ian.

Why? Because I choose to disagree with you? You don't seem to take correction very well.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 2:00 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : mailboyMailboy,The Lord rebuke thee Ian.Youdon'ttake correction very well, do you?Blessings,Ian

Being a simple single-cell sea urchin and all, what has any of the above discussions to do with the topic of Pst Kevin Quirk?? Now that I'm here I might as well comment (never short of a comment or two or three)

I would have thought (seeing there is no conscription at  the present time) that if someone chooses to join the Defence Forces, then they would have to be willing to follow and obey orders. If that means being involved in active combat then surely they should have thought through the consequences before joining?

Personally, I feel indebted to those who would fight to protect our wonderful country and our values and I honour those who have done so and those who may at some stage in the future. Sure, some people feel we shouldn't have a military presence in some countries but you know, I kind of like the idea of freedom & democracy for all. I sure hope and pray that I will never have to fight or harm anyone but then I probably won't ever have to. I will pray for those that do though, and for those that don't appreciate the sacrifice of others.

SUrchin (searchin')

 

 

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 9:48 PMCopy HTML

while i realize my opinion at this point wont mean much.... feel the need to say it anyway lol

i will say now i have been shaped by how i was brought up-

i grew up with hippy parents, they had been very anti- vietnam (my dad even went to prison for refusing to go to his medical) and i knew how bad they both felt about how those soldiers where treated when they returned. my dad took us to the ANZAC parades every year and with my interest in history  (plus my imagination) i have a very good idea what would have happened if australia had fallen to the japanese in WW2.

mailman im sorry i cant belive we are not ment to fight in self defence

i have a number of friends in the armed services, (and dated a man in the army for a while) many of these are christians, who love and serve god, like everything i have an issue with the idea that anyone can say who will and wont go to heven- only god knows the nature of our hearts. but i cant belive that the men and women who give up so much, so they can serve and protect are going against god.

yes some people have trouble adjusting to life after the army- but that probably has more to do with not geting enough counciling after all they have seen and done.

dog, of all the marriges i know of people in the military i dont know any that have fallen appart like your friends, from what i have seen they are very pro marriage, and see the wives as an intrigal part of the armed forces (they keep everything going) and have a huge support network especialy for the wives (and husbands) left behind. the familys in each contingent (is that the right term ian?) spend alot of time together, forging friendships that last a life time.

instead of all this negativity towards them, we should be praying for them- there are alot of familys waiting for loved ones to come home- i know im one of them

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 10:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : mailboy

Reply to : SOTT1The Lord rebuke thee Ian.

Heck, even the bloody thirsty god of the Old Testament said, "Thou shalt not kill", yet gave plenty of scope to annihalate the enemy, without mercy. You'll notice that breaking any of the first 7 commandments, except possibly not the 2nd, cometimes carried a death penalty.

Our word 'murder' in English implies an individual act, as opposed to killing in war (or death penalty), both of which are the actions of a governing body.

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 10:08 PMCopy HTML

Fair enough. I'm quite prepared to accept that my perceptions may not be indicative of the general ADF personel. I might mention that the family with the violent husband were ex-RCI/RF, and left the assembly about 10 years ago.

So who has experiences to report about PK?
Dog
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:01/05/2007 10:54 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free



Reply to : Dog given that i dont know who you are talking about i wont comment- altho i wonder how much higher the domestic violence statistics are in the rci/f than the wider community.





What makes you think the stats would be higher, B Free?

Actually you're probably right....... My RF wife does get a bit heavy-handed at times!



Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:02/05/2007 9:05 AMCopy HTML

I certainly believe child abuse is more common within some churches than outside of them. Not Just RF. People who are sick in the head and beat their wives/children/husbands and child molesters gravitate towards such places. Certainly RF/RCI is one of many churches that encourage male dominance and that if you "spare the rod you spoil the child" without the healthy balance of teaching how to be good parents and that abuse is wrong and that we are accountable to God for the way we raise our children.

I don't think the statistics in RF would be any higher than most other churches. I think it's more a matter of fact that those people are in all churches, and there are obviously a lot not in churches too, especially when you consider that alcoholism is such a major factor.
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"THE REVOLUTIONARY EMPIRE OF GOD IS HERE - ADVANCING BY RECONCILIATION AND PEACE; EXPANDING BY FAITH; HOPE AND LOVE, BEGINNING WITH THE POOREST AND THE LEAST. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING - BE PART OF THE REVOLUTION...

Brian D. McClaren (paraphresed)

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your Kingdom"s cause
As I walk from earth into eternity
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:02/05/2007 8:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free

dog i do know what you mean,but i guess having had him as my pastor for years i saw more than you did and not just what he did to me but to other people in the church

I'm curious to know who you are breakfree? PK was my pastor for many years also. PM me if you like. But if you'd rather remain anon thats cool also.

As for PK.  I do feel, along with others,  his heart is in the right place. However.. I think his biggest problem is the fact that he has been saved since he was 14 years old and has never really experienced life in the worldly sense as much as many, many of the folk he tries to shepperd and councel. How can you advise someone on a subject you know nothing about or ever experienced? I guess his answer for everything was the old favourite.. " Pray about it!"  He could also be quite ignorant at times. My eldest son has ADHD and has always been hard to deal with. I remember discussing this with PK and he just smirked and told me he didn't believe there was any such thing. I just put it down to uneducated ignorance and never brought the subject up again. He hasn't lived with it, Hasn't studied it to the extent I have.Whether he has changed over the years I don't know. I'm only going on what I experienced myself whilst I was there. He may be 'university educated' but he most certainly isn't educated much in life outside the four walls of the RF. I remember a lot of women in the RF suffering from depression and he made it quite clear he did not wish them to discuss their problems and depression with each other as he felt they would be 'feeding' each other even more! Quite obviously has never suffered depression himself or, for that matter, ever had one of his loved ones suffer with it, as anyone who has suffered knows how comforting it is to talk to someone else who is going through the same thing. To know your not going mad and to know that what you're feeling is quite 'normal' for a sufferer. Lets face it... there are support groups for ALL kinds of things out here in the big, wide world! Isn't it obvious why??? People need support and be able to talk to others that are in the same kind of situation! Hense the forums here!

Regards... Bindi

" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:03/05/2007 12:10 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : bindi

Reply to : break freedog i do know what you mean,but i guess having had him as my pastor for years i saw more than you did and not just what he did to me but to other people in the churchI'm curious to know who you are breakfree? PK was my pastor for many years also. PM me if you like. But if you'd rather remain anon thats cool also.As for PK. I think his biggest problem is the fact that he has been saved since he was 14 years old and never really experienced life in the worldly senseas much as many, many of the folk he tries to shepperd and councel. How can you advise someone on a subject you know nothing about or ever experienced? I guess his answer for everything was the old favourite..

hi bindi, i have pmd you

i think pks problem is he has no empathy, and belives he is compleatly right in everything he says, does thinks and belives. everything is black and white and it never occures to him he might be wrong or there may be annother way to do things.

dont know about you but i got sick of being told to pray about it- infact... even now if someone says it to me i want to scream

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:03/05/2007 8:42 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free



i think pks problem is he has no empathy, and belives he is compleatly right in everything he says, does thinks and belives. everything is black and white and it never occures to him he might be wrong or there may be annother way to do things.





Yep - you got it! same could be said about most RF "pastors" unfortunately. There's only one pastor in adelaide that i have any respect for at all, and he's only been a pastor for a year! He did let me down though by not even bothering to "follow us up" after we stopped going. I've talked to him since inadvertantly and he's not said a thing more than a polite "Hi, how are you" not really wanting to know the answer. At least he doesn't have any blood on his hands yet (that I know of).
http://www.myspace.com/theiheartrevolution
theiheartrevolution.com

"THE REVOLUTIONARY EMPIRE OF GOD IS HERE - ADVANCING BY RECONCILIATION AND PEACE; EXPANDING BY FAITH; HOPE AND LOVE, BEGINNING WITH THE POOREST AND THE LEAST. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING - BE PART OF THE REVOLUTION...

Brian D. McClaren (paraphresed)

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your Kingdom"s cause
As I walk from earth into eternity
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 2:40 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : I dunno

Well, it looks like Mailboy and LTD have deleted all their posts and fled the scene! Why?!

Ian
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 3:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : I dunnoWell, it looks like Mailboy and LTD have deleted all their posts and fled the scene!Why?!Ian

Hi Ian.. They have either re-posted the 'war and killing' posts onto another thread as requested. Or decided the topic was not open for discussion anymore.

Bindi

" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 3:16 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1



Reply to : it looks like Mailboy and LTD have deleted all their posts and fled the scene!Why?!Ian





GGGGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

It pisses me off when people do that! Bloody selfish and childish, taking ya toys and going home!!!!

The net result is it totally chops up the thread's continuity and makes it a riddle for any new reader.

Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 3:32 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : dogmafree

GGGGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!It pisses me off when people do that! Bloody selfish and childish, taking ya toys and going home!!!!The net result is it totally chops up the thread's continuity and makes it a riddle for any new reader.Dog.

Wooahh! Settle Gretel! LOL!

To save any confusion then, its probably better that all of us who have posted a comment to this topic delete it or re-post it with its own heading/title. I deleted mine altogether because of the riddle it made of this thread.

Bindi

" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 4:07 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Well, it looks like Mailboy and LTD have deleted all their posts and fled the scene!Why?!Ian



I was looking on this thread earlier today and it appeared that the posts you're referring to may have been deleted by Unkoolman, so you might want to direct your question to Moddy to find out if the posts were removed at the specific request of Mailboy/LTD, because it could be just a moderator's perogative!
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 7:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : wootylicious

I was looking on this thread earlier today and it appeared that the posts you're referring to may have been deleted by Unkoolman, so you might want to direct your question to Moddy to find out if the posts were removed at the specific request of Mailboy/LTD, because it could be just a moderator's perogative!

Mailboy and LTD have deleted all their own posts. At least their original comments can be seen in the quotes of those who replied.

I didn't move the 'killer' posts of this thread into their own topic because it takes far too much time to do so. I did change add a parenthesis to this thread's title to make it easier to find it at a later date.

I'm not sure if Mr Quirk will appreciate the topic moving from him to 'death', but I'm sure any distraction would be welcome should he read the forum at all .

Unkoolmail

"As man is, so is his God; And thus is God, oft strangely odd" - Goethe

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:05/05/2007 9:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Unkoolman

OK thanks for clarifying Moddy. I didn't mean to imply anything negative.

It's a shame sometimes when people feel the need to delete their posts and remove all trace of their forum existence. I wonder why it happens. I can understand if someone feels they have revealed too much and are concerned about possible consequences, or are embarrassed about something they've written (hey we all say things we regret) but to delete all posts does seem extreme. Then again, some people are just more sensitive than others - nothing wrong with that BTW - and a simple misunderstanding or disagreement can be taken very personally, in that case it may well be easier for some to wipe the slate clean and walk away. It does seem a case of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face though. As mentioned in another thread, why would you want to delete stuff that has the potential to help people.

Anyway back onto Kevin Quirk, someone I never had the pleasure of dealing with, but from the sounds of it I didn't miss much
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:06/05/2007 8:40 AMCopy HTML

well, i dunno. Meeting people like him only helped me to get where i am, and they keep me from going back - so they're not all bad.

At least they're pushing the Lord's sheep away from a destructive organisation!!!
http://www.myspace.com/theiheartrevolution
theiheartrevolution.com

"THE REVOLUTIONARY EMPIRE OF GOD IS HERE - ADVANCING BY RECONCILIATION AND PEACE; EXPANDING BY FAITH; HOPE AND LOVE, BEGINNING WITH THE POOREST AND THE LEAST. IT"S TIME TO CHANGE YOUR THINKING - BE PART OF THE REVOLUTION...

Brian D. McClaren (paraphresed)

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your Kingdom"s cause
As I walk from earth into eternity
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 3:15 AMCopy HTML

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 3:21 AMCopy HTML

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 3:21 AMCopy HTML

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 3:22 AMCopy HTML

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 3:22 AMCopy HTML

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost?

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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:08/10/2011 4:58 AMCopy HTML

Praying in the Holy Spirit?????

You Revivalists and some ex Revivalists just don't get it, do you?
smiley28
My friend 'T', even after four years away from that "religious orgy", still has no idea what this means from the bible perspective.

Needs of a little research and study in proper biblical theology is the go.

http://www.pleaseconsider.info/
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Pastor Kevin Quirk (& off topic: war and murder)

Date Posted:10/10/2011 4:26 AMCopy HTML

Hello, Guest.

Why dont you get of the grass who ever you are.  are you praying in the holy ghost? If by this you mean gibbering along in 'tongues', then there's not much difference in general effects between being 'on the grass' and doing what you apparently suggest. 

Praying in the Spirit has about as much to do with Revivalist 'tongues' as does 'walking in the Spirit' or 'living in the Spirit'. In other words, not a lot ;)

Something to think about.

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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