On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Forum for ex-members of Revival Churches

Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums Aimoo Forum List | Ticket | Today | Member | Search | Who's On | Chat Room | Photos | Help | Sign In | |

Title: On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Reviving from Revival > Recommended Reading Go to subcategory：

Author Content

Didaktikon

Rank：Not quite new

Score：771

Posts：26

From：Australia

Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM

Date Posted：05/05/2011 7:39 AMCopy HTML

My friend, colleague and predecessor as Director of Tyndale College has just had his latest book released. The Progressive Publication of Matthew: An Explanation of the Writing of the Synoptic Gospels, by Dr B. Ward Powers is now available for $34.95 from Koorong Books. For those who have an interest in such things, Ward, a respected Greek grammarian and NT scholar, devotes 750 pages to explaining why he believes (as did the early Church) the Gospel According to Matthew was the original gospel written.

Knowing Ward as I do, I reckon this book will be worth a close reading.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Ex_Member Share to: #1

Rank：

Score：0

Posts：0

From：Unknown

Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM

Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Date Posted：06/05/2011 6:13 AMCopy HTML

Hello Ian,

Yeah if you think it good then I will drop by Koorong after work tomorrow night. As a point of interest, if the Gospel of Mathew was written progressively over some stages then it's origins would most likely have been birthed in the original Aramaic language. There is much debate that Mark was the earliest written Synoptic Gospel in the Greek language sometime around the mid sixties of the first century and the dates I have seem to occur just after when Peter was reported to have died and it is quoted that Mark wrote as Peter's secretary. But yes I am interested in 'such matters'. But getting back to Mathews Synoptic, there is support from Catholic circles in favour of an Aramaic Mathews Gospel. On that basis, I am interested in what Ward might offer.

I also have the handbook on the Greek New Testament for the Johannines 1,2,3 on its way to me and this area of my own personal pursuit has me amazed at the wisdom of a man who would have been at least an octogenarian by the time these epistles were written. So John had lived what he writes about for around 50 years e.g. "My little children, I am writing these things to you that may not sin" (BTW that sounds like a subjunctive there, time to drag out the Nestle-Aland one more time :-) ) anyway the expression of his address to the Johannine community seems to express a real picture of the true authority of an apostle well steeped in his years of much learned wisdom and experience..

blessings dude

Eric

Talmid Share to: #2

Rank：Regular Rookier

Score：5980

Posts：293

From：Australia

Register：21/04/2008 10:04 PM

Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Date Posted：06/05/2011 7:28 AMCopy HTML

Hi Eric

Ward's book has been on my "to buy" list ever since I found out it was in press. I may not be up to validating the details of his language analyses but based on my conversations with him as a student and the content of his lectures I'm sure the work will be well argued, respectful of differing opinions and a great collation of relevant material.

I'm a little surprised that you say Matthew's presentation of the gospel was most likely birthed in Aramaic, given that koine Greek was the written lingua franca, and as a tax collector Matthew would no doubt have been familiar with that language (as well as Aramaic and the Latin required for his reports to Rome). It'll be interesting to see what Hebraisms Ward identifies.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.

Ex_Member Share to: #3

Rank：

Score：0

Posts：0

From：Unknown

Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM

Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Date Posted：07/05/2011 7:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Talmid

Hi Eric

Ward's book has been on my "to buy" list ever since I found out it was in press. I may not be up to validating the details of his language analyses but based on my conversations with him as a student and the content of his lectures I'm sure the work will be well argued, respectful of differing opinions and a great collation of relevant material.

I'm a little surprised that you say Matthew's presentation of the gospel was most likely birthed in Aramaic, given that koine Greek was the written lingua franca, and as a tax collector Matthew would no doubt have been familiar with that language (as well as Aramaic and the Latin required for his reports to Rome). It'll be interesting to see what Hebraisms Ward identifies.

Hello Talmid,

If I may, I would like to quote from "Eusebius Ecclesiastical History Book 36 (16) The sayings of Papias .. "Of Mathew he had stated as follows: "Mathew composed his history in the Hebrew dialect, and everyone translated as he was able.""
Now you can take that how you like but there is much debate with pros and cons either way and from what I can gather, there is the Zahn theory which argues a direct translation from Aramaic to Greek but this does not hold any weight either. I got sidetracked tonight after work I and failed to get to Koorong and it will have to wait now until Monday morning. Such is the ins and outs of life but anyway according to the review, Ward discusses a progressive authoring. Now I reckon that does hold weight because that is the way we humans operate. Take for example Didaktikon. Now Ian is about to present us with his third incarnation of his major Acts paper. Now to get to that Incarnation, Ian would have undertaken maybe I suppose 2 or 3 thousand revisions as he gathered and researched his data. I pity his computer but anyway that's life but we do and must guarantee our sources. Now concerning source material, much debate exists that the synoptics and John borrowed material from each other and also there is another source that the Gospels relate to for data called a "Q' source and I think if a 'Q' source exists (Quelle - source) then that source was not some hypothetical written document but rather other eyewitnesses from the public ministry of Christ and who may have been part of Mathews later ministry. So I think if the review by Koorong is right then indeed I am interested in what direction Ward can offer me from his own research because I believe a concept of 'progressive authoring' could hold weight. No one writes a perfect document in one go, not even Didaktikon, because our source data must progressively develop. So I will drop over to Koorong first thing Monday Morning now.
Blessings Talmid

Eric

Talmid Share to: #4

Rank：Regular Rookier

Score：5980

Posts：293

From：Australia

Register：21/04/2008 10:04 PM

Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Date Posted：07/05/2011 10:28 PMCopy HTML

Hi Eric

Yeah ... I'm well aware of both "the synoptic problem" and Eusebius' quotation from Papias. And if I recall correctly there's an Aramaic collection of Jesus' sayings that has been attributed by some to Matthew. So, hmm, at first blush the idea of at least one document of Matthew's circulating ("birthed') in Aramaic plus a final compilation authored from scratch in koine Greek does make sense.

BTW I have a Master's degree which included perapring a minor thesis of around 90 pp + references (11 pp) + appendices (around 100 pp) so I have some idea of what's involved in writing extended pieces, such as Ian's "large Acts essay".

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.

Ex_Member Share to: #5

Rank：

Score：0

Posts：0

From：Unknown

Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM

Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem'

Date Posted：08/05/2011 12:12 AMCopy HTML

Cool Talmid..

BTW, Ian seems to be 'baiting' us a little with his next incarnation of his Acts Essay. I wonder what he has in store ??

Yeah I have just reached the 'halfway' mark towards my Masters and the work task at 6 and 7 hundred level is absolutely grueling with lots of lost hours of sleep. I hope I don't study my way into an early grave.

Blessings

Copyright © 2000- Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.

Title: On the 'Synoptic Problem'
Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Reviving from Revival > Recommended Reading	Go to subcategory：

Didaktikon
Rank：Not quite new Score：771 Posts：26 From：Australia Register：29/08/2007 7:54 AM	Date Posted：05/05/2011 7:39 AMCopy HTML My friend, colleague and predecessor as Director of Tyndale College has just had his latest book released. The Progressive Publication of Matthew: An Explanation of the Writing of the Synoptic Gospels, by Dr B. Ward Powers is now available for $34.95 from Koorong Books. For those who have an interest in such things, Ward, a respected Greek grammarian and NT scholar, devotes 750 pages to explaining why he believes (as did the early Church) the Gospel According to Matthew was the original gospel written. Knowing Ward as I do, I reckon this book will be worth a close reading. Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Ex_Member	Share to: #1
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem' Date Posted：06/05/2011 6:13 AMCopy HTML Hello Ian, Yeah if you think it good then I will drop by Koorong after work tomorrow night. As a point of interest, if the Gospel of Mathew was written progressively over some stages then it's origins would most likely have been birthed in the original Aramaic language. There is much debate that Mark was the earliest written Synoptic Gospel in the Greek language sometime around the mid sixties of the first century and the dates I have seem to occur just after when Peter was reported to have died and it is quoted that Mark wrote as Peter's secretary. But yes I am interested in 'such matters'. But getting back to Mathews Synoptic, there is support from Catholic circles in favour of an Aramaic Mathews Gospel. On that basis, I am interested in what Ward might offer. I also have the handbook on the Greek New Testament for the Johannines 1,2,3 on its way to me and this area of my own personal pursuit has me amazed at the wisdom of a man who would have been at least an octogenarian by the time these epistles were written. So John had lived what he writes about for around 50 years e.g. "My little children, I am writing these things to you that may not sin" (BTW that sounds like a subjunctive there, time to drag out the Nestle-Aland one more time :-) ) anyway the expression of his address to the Johannine community seems to express a real picture of the true authority of an apostle well steeped in his years of much learned wisdom and experience.. blessings dude Eric
Talmid	Share to: #2
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5980 Posts：293 From：Australia Register：21/04/2008 10:04 PM	Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem' Date Posted：06/05/2011 7:28 AMCopy HTML Hi Eric Ward's book has been on my "to buy" list ever since I found out it was in press. I may not be up to validating the details of his language analyses but based on my conversations with him as a student and the content of his lectures I'm sure the work will be well argued, respectful of differing opinions and a great collation of relevant material. I'm a little surprised that you say Matthew's presentation of the gospel was most likely birthed in Aramaic, given that koine Greek was the written lingua franca, and as a tax collector Matthew would no doubt have been familiar with that language (as well as Aramaic and the Latin required for his reports to Rome). It'll be interesting to see what Hebraisms Ward identifies. The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Ex_Member	Share to: #3
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem' Date Posted：07/05/2011 7:26 AMCopy HTML Reply to Talmid Hi Eric Ward's book has been on my "to buy" list ever since I found out it was in press. I may not be up to validating the details of his language analyses but based on my conversations with him as a student and the content of his lectures I'm sure the work will be well argued, respectful of differing opinions and a great collation of relevant material. I'm a little surprised that you say Matthew's presentation of the gospel was most likely birthed in Aramaic, given that koine Greek was the written lingua franca, and as a tax collector Matthew would no doubt have been familiar with that language (as well as Aramaic and the Latin required for his reports to Rome). It'll be interesting to see what Hebraisms Ward identifies. Hello Talmid, If I may, I would like to quote from "Eusebius Ecclesiastical History Book 36 (16) The sayings of Papias .. "Of Mathew he had stated as follows: "Mathew composed his history in the Hebrew dialect, and everyone translated as he was able."" Now you can take that how you like but there is much debate with pros and cons either way and from what I can gather, there is the Zahn theory which argues a direct translation from Aramaic to Greek but this does not hold any weight either. I got sidetracked tonight after work I and failed to get to Koorong and it will have to wait now until Monday morning. Such is the ins and outs of life but anyway according to the review, Ward discusses a progressive authoring. Now I reckon that does hold weight because that is the way we humans operate. Take for example Didaktikon. Now Ian is about to present us with his third incarnation of his major Acts paper. Now to get to that Incarnation, Ian would have undertaken maybe I suppose 2 or 3 thousand revisions as he gathered and researched his data. I pity his computer but anyway that's life but we do and must guarantee our sources. Now concerning source material, much debate exists that the synoptics and John borrowed material from each other and also there is another source that the Gospels relate to for data called a "Q' source and I think if a 'Q' source exists (Quelle - source) then that source was not some hypothetical written document but rather other eyewitnesses from the public ministry of Christ and who may have been part of Mathews later ministry. So I think if the review by Koorong is right then indeed I am interested in what direction Ward can offer me from his own research because I believe a concept of 'progressive authoring' could hold weight. No one writes a perfect document in one go, not even Didaktikon, because our source data must progressively develop. So I will drop over to Koorong first thing Monday Morning now. Blessings Talmid Eric
Talmid	Share to: #4
Rank：Regular Rookier Score：5980 Posts：293 From：Australia Register：21/04/2008 10:04 PM	Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem' Date Posted：07/05/2011 10:28 PMCopy HTML Hi Eric Yeah ... I'm well aware of both "the synoptic problem" and Eusebius' quotation from Papias. And if I recall correctly there's an Aramaic collection of Jesus' sayings that has been attributed by some to Matthew. So, hmm, at first blush the idea of at least one document of Matthew's circulating ("birthed') in Aramaic plus a final compilation authored from scratch in koine Greek does make sense. BTW I have a Master's degree which included perapring a minor thesis of around 90 pp + references (11 pp) + appendices (around 100 pp) so I have some idea of what's involved in writing extended pieces, such as Ian's "large Acts essay". The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Ex_Member	Share to: #5
Rank： Score：0 Posts：0 From：Unknown Register：21/09/2018 12:36 AM	Re：On the 'Synoptic Problem' Date Posted：08/05/2011 12:12 AMCopy HTML Cool Talmid.. BTW, Ian seems to be 'baiting' us a little with his next incarnation of his Acts Essay. I wonder what he has in store ?? Yeah I have just reached the 'halfway' mark towards my Masters and the work task at 6 and 7 hundred level is absolutely grueling with lots of lost hours of sleep. I hope I don't study my way into an early grave. Blessings