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Date Posted:25/04/2005 9:55 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[I'll stay that way]%*'`@Someone sent this to me:LYING IN THE NAME OF THE LORDBy Ken MullisWhat's he going to say next? No born again believer would intentionallylie in the name of the Lord, would they? Well it depends on how youdefine intentionally. Join me and let's look at ourselves.Before I go to deep, let me insert two disclaimers:1) I'm not against any bonifide move of the Spirit of God. Whether it'slaughing, crying, repenting, prophetic, apostolic, healing meetings,falling, jumping, quaking, shaking, you name it. If it's real, I'm forit!2) The term honesty will be used several times in this posting. Honestyis of the Lord, however, the secret things of our hearts can not alwaysbe shared with everyone because some things could be overwhelming tosomeone who has not fully matured in Christ. There should be someone inyour life that you can be honest with, like your Pastor, or a goodfriend, etc. The way the term honesty is used in this posting is inregard to our public actions and displays, or our heart before God.With that said, let's jump in!Have you ever been to a meeting where the preacher calls folks down forprayer and a long line forms? At this point the preacher begins to layhands on folks and one after the other they begin to fall down. Uh oh,your next, what are you going to do?The pressure is on. You want to look as spiritual as the next guy, youdon't want to offend the visiting preacher. You may even be afraid thatif you don't fall you may be pointed out as someone who can't receive,so what are you going to do?You quickly look at your "What would Jesus do bracelet" forinspiration, but it's not working. What are you going to do? Probablywhat most everyone else does. ...You take the fall! You get up givingthe appearance that a surge of the power of God overtook you in thatmoment and all the strength left your knees and you had to go down.Have you ever done that? .....I have. I've heard it called a courtesydrop, you know, you don't want to offend the preacher or quench theSpirit for anyone else. I think we've thoroughly justified ourselvesfor all of our actions, but are we helping or hurting the kingdom? DoesGod really need our help to win them over with a little of our drama?Here's another: At the end of a sermon of fire and brimstone everyonegoes down to the altar where there's weeping and nashing of teeth.Cries of repentance are going up. People are laid out everywhere. Thisphenomenon occurs once or twice a week in some places. At first maybeyou think, wow, these humble people love God, yet shortly you see thatno one gets up changed, because three days later they have to do thesame thing again, and again, and again.Their divorce rate is no different than anyone else's. Their childrenhave the same issues everyone else's have. I think you see the pattern.If God is touching people at a level where altar services are required,sin would go into remission and peoples lives would be changed. The axewould be laid to the root. That's something that shouldn't have to berepeated bi-weekly or weekly.This is another good one: Your at a meeting, suddenly laughter beginsto break out. It starts in one corner and soon has spread over thewhole congregation. People are all around you laughing with feverishintensity, and there you are. You don't feel a thing. You may gettickled looking at others laugh, but this intense uncontrollablelaughter; you're just not feeling it. And you think, well maybe myheart is hard, what's wrong with me? Am I the only one who is feelingthis way? Maybe you are, but maybe some of what you see is as fake as athree dollar bill.What's really happening here? Are we helping others with these actionsor hurting them? Are we making them feel self-conscious as if they areless spiritual. I believe we should be doing all we can to help peoplereach their spiritual potential believing that they truly are childrenof God.So there it is. Are we lying in the name of Jesus for the same reasonwe would lie about everything else? What's that you ask? Self-preservation of course! Who else greater than ourselves are worthy ofour lies. The nature of God that's alive on the inside of us doesn'tneed preserving by our great works of wisdom. No we are only attemptingto preserve our carnal nature that was supposed to be crucified withJesus when we were born again.It's time to bring honesty back to the house of God. If you can't behonest, find a place where you can be. I've made a commitment not toperform anymore for any reason, and I hope I live up to thatcommitment. King David was considered by God to be a man after God'sown heart. David made mistakes and he laid them out before God. Hedidn't hide a thing.Look at the psalms sometime. David's honesty before God is astonishing.Does this mean we shouldn't be radical for Jesus in our worship. Doesthis mean that God may not move on us in such a way that we may laugh,cry, lay prostrate and repent, or fall under His touch. He absolutelycould, God is sovereign and He can do any of these things with anyonewhose heart is turned to Him. To limit God would also be to perpetuatethe lie that God doesn't move in Spirit and power among believers.Let God be True and every man a liar. Just because everyone else isfalling or laughing doesn't always mean that God would have you dothat. There may be someone there whose faith would not fail them ifthey could see someone else who was not being moved like the rest ofthe crowd. We need to be secure in who we are in Christ. I would gofurther to say that some or many could be being touched by God, but Ihave to stay true to myself if I don't sense anything happening to mepersonally.I have jumped through many hoops before designed by men in servicesthat left me embarrassed and questioning Christianity. It's time toclean up our gatherings and wash these dishonest performances out ofour midst.To end, I would say, I hope you laugh, dance, shout, fall on your facein the deepest of repentance, cry, fall under His power, but most ofall, love your brother enough to be honest in the gathering together ofthe saints no matter what.________________________________________________Ill stay anon for now
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:26/04/2005 4:05 PMCopy HTML

I can't read anything in the bible about this sick behaviour of some groups. Why change the Word of God. It is perfect, there is nothing to change.
Some people like to do an Upgrade of the true gospel. A little bit falling, a little bit laughing, a little bit shaking. It's crazy to see all this practices in churches.
But all this people are not misleaded by some leaders, but by themselves. It's theirs decision to be involved in that. They like to do all this things. It's funny, it's new. They don't expect anything from our Lord, they expect something from their leaders. They love the world, that's why they change God's Word. If we think for the Lord it's OK and no problem when we change His Word, then there we are mistaken. The door will be closed when Jesus comes back.

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Matthew 24, Luke 21
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:26/04/2005 9:10 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Ill stay that way for now]%*'`@

I must admit that back in old days when RF and RCI were one and the same, if anyone fell while being prayed for, the elders in their ignorance would pick them up and believing they had  "fainted" and sit them back in their chairs... Yet on the on the other hand in the daughter off shoot, the CAI, falling under the power is quite common (mostly people will fall in a prostrated on their face).... However on coming over to the  mainline pentecostal/charismatic groups you have the Christian Outreach Centres where deliberate pushing over is normal.. When people choose to fall because they don't want to be looking un - spiritual because others may fall, then this is now called a "courtesy drop"..... But I have fallen many times under the power without anyone laying a hand on me and believe you me, it was quite real.... God's presence was more powerful than my body could take..!!

Ill stay that way for now

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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:27/04/2005 11:24 AMCopy HTML

Why change the Word of God.

Who changed the word of God?  Am I missing something is there a commandment that says "thou shall not fall down while being prayed for?"  Or "thou shall not laugh in the spirit"? 

And why is it sick?  And why are you being so judgemental?  Are you not being just as bad as they are? (that's if they are actually doing the wrong thing - which I don't believe they are so long as it is REAL)

Paul the aposlte must have missed those one's.  I wonder if anyone had a go at him when he fell on his face?  But anyway.  The Holy Spirit can manifest Himself anyway he sees fit.

Judge not lest ye be judged

jsc1215 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:31/05/2005 11:11 AMCopy HTML


When I was in CFCMI, we were all lied to about Lloyd Davis' sick behaviour.  When he was incarcerated, we were told he was innocent by Pete Paine and Ed Thomas, and that we were not to question that statement.  Those who were victims, and those who knew the truth, were ordered to be silent or face expulsion from the church.  Whenever we were challenged about Davis, we swore up and down he was innocent and God was going to free him.

In May 2001 Paine delivered a gut-wrenching speech in which he admitted that Daivs was in fact GUILTY.  I wanted to slap Paine in the face for this.  How was I supposed to tell my friends, family, and co-workers that I defended a LIE all those years?

Now I know why our prayers for Davis' release weren't answered.  God was not going to honor the work of a pervert and a liar.  Those of us who thought he was innocent were duped.

John Cady
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:11/06/2005 12:36 AMCopy HTML

i have a question which i think is relevant, but taking things to the top of the pyramid:

if satan is the epitome of deception, would he not be the head of the church?

or would he say 'no, that's too sacred, even for me!'?

something i hated to contemplate while being in church, yet kept bothering me as i became more submissive to the church.

wow... just read the verse that whateverhelp included... it's perfect!

so what am i saying that is new?

maybe everyone's church is the same as those who are more daring and less subtle in their practices... maybe the more subtle something is, the more deceptive it is.

but you can always take the best bits out and use your spiritual discernment as best you can i suppose and not fear these things that have been mentioned. people only do things if they decide they are getting something out of it anyway.

when something is more cultish, it's usually less subtle. if one wanted to achieve the same objectives as a typical cult leader, one would take any threats into account, such as the possibility of being labelled a cult... therefore they would find the loopholes to avoid falling under the definition of a cult.

so you have a stealth cult. and like most cult members, you are not aware that you are in one and find the notion preposterous.

even if everyone here is an unwitting 'courtesy dropper', at least you're courteous and i guess that's one thing most agree is a 'good thing morally'. just like most christians of different varieties would agree with how non-christian intelligents describe christianity as 'moral teachings'.

the falling and the laughing can be symbollic too. we don't have to critisize the practices. actors do similar things to bring the group together and promote trust. if the end is good, why diss on the means?

if you can see the good in your church, you can see the good in others'.

because to people outside of church, you're all the same and equally laughable! no offence.

PS: my devillish plug for the world...

i am the first to admit i WAS A BLATANT LIAR to make the church seem more true to others,for one thing. i believed that everyone else was telling the truth (they can't ALL be liars!) and going to hell was better that being 'not spiritfilled' amongst the family of people who believed it was the only way.

most of you have found churches that suit you better, but i decided they were all the same. it also helped that i could live without them.

and i guess i want to recommend it to you as something that is eventually very freeing.

in my opinion, free will is the test of true 'honesty' and if you know what church is like, leaving it for the world is no big loss... because the world includes that church and all others. when you are part of the world, you are finally alive. the world is yours... there is no real need for sanctuary... you are more dependant on 'the spirit' than the church.

and i can't wait till he returns...


if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:11/06/2005 9:27 PMCopy HTML

i am the first to admit i WAS A BLATANT LIAR to make the church seem more true to others

Funny you should say that because I was thinking the same thing today... ooooh, that sounds like I was about to use the gifts except that you used them first and said the thing in your gift that I was gonna use in my prophesy and that's so amazing when that happens isn't it? (eek, sorry for the sarcasm). Or when a few people do some talks at a prayer and fast and some of them miraculously have the same thread going through them! Real dunamis miracle working power huh? yeah... anyway, where was I? Oh yeah...

I used to go witnessing at the beach with the revs and would force myself to go up to stangers and explain why we were building sandcastles that looked like nuclear bombs or Jonah's fish (not whale... important info eh?). The point is that I would lie and sometimes even make up scriptures to prove my infallible point that everyone needs to speak in tongues. Nothing else mattered... and even when my victims made really good logical points and valid counter arguments, I would look down on them with disdain and shake my head in frustration as to how lost and stupid the worldly people had really become. If only the people of our town were as simple as the Papua New Guineans. If only they were as easy to convince. If only if only.

It's been 3 months now since going to any church! Amazing! After 33 years of life I am finally feeling some freedom. But hey... you can only truly be free when the truth is setting you free and that truth can only be given to you when listening to the bible being read on a Sunday morning. My wife wants to go back to a church so she can sing the Hillsongs and have friends to talk to... and for the kids. I feel like my freedom is about to be rebuked. I don't think I've got it in me anymore to act all spiritual and gay again (gay as in 'happy' looking... the original gay... not the ummm... hey, I've got nothing against gays ok? I'm sure it's your choice and... look... whatever).

I would be lying to all the christian people if i went to a church and pretended I knew all about king Hezekiah and his 7 faithful servents and how there story lays the way for... where am I going with this? I'm no bible expert. All I knew after 16 years in Revival was how important tongues was and using 9 gifts and that the lord is coming back next week and how if you add up all the greek letters of acts you get the meaning of life.

The truth is that we are all in this together. You, me, the Muslims, the Jehovah's witness, the sacred undergarments of the mormon Church, the cute girl down the road, the guy who works the ferris wheel, the Catholics. We are all trying to work out how to live on this rock and how to keep living after our blood clots and kill us. There is a big cosmic game going on and I feel like a bloody marionet puppet and I'm sick of playing by someone else's rules. Yeah, even yours God! Give me a break already! I'm sure something huge and spiritually significant happened 2000 years ago but even 4 versions of the story still has me confused. Suffice to say that the result is that mankind has been saved. Except for those of us who can't speak in tongues... poor you... hope he turns the heat down a little bit in hell when you all get chucked in there. I'll put a good word in for yas all.

If you think your church is the one and only elite organisation then you're a bit of a dumbshit because that award goes to McDonalds. Selah.

Quotes from 'walking away'

If God sets people on fire forever then who needs the devil?


Why would God make us so different if he wanted us to be the same?

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank][/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:13/06/2005 1:03 PMCopy HTML

Ok, I am ashamed of this and do not seek to defend my actions.  But...

Despite what current RC leaders might say about me (if anything at all, do they even remember me?), I was a hard-ass Revivalist as a teen.  I used to take leaflets in my bag everywhere I went, even to high school.  While others had band names and song lyrics, I had RC proof-texts scrawled across my folders.  I was even reprimanded by the school administration (it was a Catholic school) and the RE co-ordinator went into damage control mode when I started to make an impact on my disgruntled Catholic peers.  He even took a group of them to an RCI meeting on a supervised 'find out about the whacky group' field trip.  I ended up converting two students (none of whom went on the field trip btw), one of whom stayed on after i left.  He eventually left for the AOG where he is, as far as I still know, a pastor to this day.

Anyway, I say all that to say that inspite of my hard-assed revivalism, I too told lies for God.  And I learned this tactic from an RCI (now RF by the way) Pastor's son.  He told a blatant lie about being healed of a broken arm while I was listening in so i did the same at a later time.  I was using Mark 16 one day to preach to some kids when one asked about the healing verse.  In answer I told a group of students that God healed my broken arm and I felt a warm feeling come over it and before I knew it it was healed.  One of my friends at school said I was lying and I adamantly denied it.  I admit that this wouldn't have been condoned by RC leaders, but how else was I to support the RC healing doctrine which said I could heal? At the time I had no real qualms about lying.  After all, Acts 2:38 was the truth.  What did it matter if I led people to the truth dishonestly?

Now I was young and silly, but listening to H&S, I realised that this probably goes on more than I knew. 

How many others exxaggerated or even told outright lies when defending the church and it's beliefs?

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Re:Lying in the name of the Lord

Date Posted:08/07/2005 8:19 PMCopy HTML

I will admit this was the case in CFCMI.  We lied about mostly the misconduct of the leadership; once Davis left this earth to face eternal judgment, new allegations arose about nepotism, money laundering, multi-level marketing, etc.  The leadership threatened to expel folks who dared question these issues and expected us to defend them on every accusation.

John Cady
RCI prophesies
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