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Date Posted:20/01/2007 5:02 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[biggirl]%*'`@Seems to be a bit of a haemmorage at Woodcroft church in Adelaide. Lots of old families left in last week or so. A few Pastors 'put out' on east coast, and watch out for Canberra! John Kuhlmans talk today at Woodcroft covered such issues as; we have boundaries to keep you safe, don't talk to ex-members, we are too busy to fellowship with other Pentecostal people and churches, Pentecostal churches now have too much psychology in them, don't read any christian pamphlets , books, or watch christian tv programs, "some people say our worship time is boring." Fun and games
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:20/01/2007 8:48 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : biggirl [Anonymous]



Seems to be a bit of a haemmorage at Woodcroft church in Adelaide. Lots of old families left in last week or so. A few Pastors 'put out' on east coast, and watch out for Canberra!John Kuhlmans talk today at Woodcroft covered such issues as;we have boundaries to keep you safe,don't talk to ex-members,we are too busy to fellowship with other Pentecostal people and churches,Pentecostal churches now have too much psychology in them,don't read any christian pamphlets , books, or watch christian tv programs,"some people say our worship time is boring."Fun and games





Yes indeedy, Woodcroft appears to be on the skids, and not that surprising really. The "pastors" are followed purely out of fear and legalistic necessity and are not respected. They have left a trail of carnage in their wake.

A little bird told me today that John K also mentioned in his talk that Pentecostal churches are now into counselling and of course he was being critical. It's just as well that some groups do counsel people, as many who leave Revival Fellowship are often in desperate need of it.

The new measures will further unsettle Woodcroft attendees and the exodus will continue as many people, particularly those who have been around for some years, are starting to see through the hokum.

As for the "elders", they are trapped in their own strange little world that is becoming an ever decreasing circle. They are becoming more and more isolated as the deadened clank of sustained legalism drives them further and further away from the scriptures.

Wattyl on Woodcroft. Your London Bridge is falling down.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:20/01/2007 11:45 PMCopy HTML

Which pastors on the east coast put out??

What do you mean by 'watch out Canberra'?

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:21/01/2007 8:07 AMCopy HTML

just a curious question, how did you know what John said? (I used to go to Woodcroft)

 

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:21/01/2007 2:49 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[L]%*'`@Reply to : Marmalade Pie



Reply to : biggirl [Anonymous]Seems to be a bit of a haemmorage at Woodcroft church in Adelaide. Lots of old families left in last week or so. A few Pastors 'put out' on east coast, and watch out for Canberra!John Kuhlmans talk today at Woodcroft covered such issues as;we have boundaries to keep you safe,don't talk to ex-members,we are too busy to fellowship with other Pentecostal people and churches,Pentecostal churches now have too much psychology in them,don't read any christian pamphlets , books, or watch christian tv programs,"some people say our worship time is boring."Fun and gamesYes indeedy, Woodcroft appears to be on the skids, and not that surprising really. The "pastors" are followed purely out of fear and legalistic necessity and are not respect





Hi

It will be interesting to sit back and watch what happens in TRF over the whole counselling issue. Russell Gay (Toowoomba pastor and RF Council member) is part of a Pentecostal-based group that teaches Christian counsellors and Family Therapists (the AFIC). He even helps to run their Brisbane based classes! It looks like John K might have a bit of a fight on his hands over this!

L
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:21/01/2007 4:07 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[biggirl]%*'`@Hi again,
How did i know what John said? A close friend was there when JK gave the talk!
As for the other, I admit it might have been unsubstantiated rumour, but it was what i'd been told by an ex member. Lets just wait and see.

I think its classic that everyone that leaves is accused of being bitter. We were branded 'bitter'. Funny though, when I bump into ex revs around the place, most are in some kind of church, and you can see the relief in them.

I know of three particulary hard hearted and rude men who have radically changed since leaving RF. It really was a shock when I saw them again, completely humble and caring, all of them in new churches.
THere is an aura around a lot of the men in leadership positions in the RF. They have that Daryl Williams, puffed out arrogant look about them. It really isn't pleasant, and it really isn't christ like.

Back to the tennis.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:22/01/2007 6:17 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[suomynona]%*'`@



They have that Daryl Williams, puffed out arrogant look about them.





somewhat OT but speaking of Daryl it appears there has been yet another marriage breakup amongst his daughters (that's all of them separated or divorced now). I don't mean to make light of someone else's failed marriage, it's just that Daryl always took great delight in telling everyone else in minute detail what was wrong with their relationships but it doesn't seem to have sunk in closer to home. apparently it happened some months ago but it's all been kept very hush-hush as they didn't want stories going around - oh the irony! that family were the worst gossipers in the entire group.

back on Woodcroft... have been hearing rumblings for some time that people are feeling too controlled & fed up with having to run every little thing past the powers that be. I think there was also some aggro at the decision to stop holding sunday meetings at victor harbor. don't know much more than that though.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:22/01/2007 7:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : suomynona [Anonymous]



somewhat OT but speaking of Daryl it appears there has been yet another marriage breakup amongst his daughters (that's all of them separated or divorced now). I don't mean to make light of someone else's failed marriage, it's just that Daryl always took great delight in telling everyone else in minute detail what was wrong with their relationships but it doesn't seem to have sunk in closer to home.




I often wonder what the wives of these bully boy control freaks really think and how they really feel. Some wives of 'oversight" I have known in the past always seemed to me to have submerged their own identities. They always took the company line, but were they really happy? Some were treated like total crud by their important husbands.

As for marriage break ups, RF have stacks of these. It's always going to be a problem when you can only choose your partner from within controlling confines. RF argument is that life is only safe in all its aspects when lived from within the group, and disaster awaits you outside the group. So people stay, and often disaster hits them from within.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:22/01/2007 7:41 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[suomynona]%*'`@Reply to : Marmalade Pie


As for marriage break ups, RF have stacks of these. It's always going to be a problem when you can only choose your partner from within controlling confines. RF argument is that life is only safe in all its aspects when lived from within the group, and disaster awaits you outside the group. So people stay, and often disaster hits them from within.




Too true, plus so many RF marriages happen for utterly stupid reasons. It's beyond me why people think they have to marry someone just because a pastor says so. Of course we know why they do it - control! - but even when I was toeing the RF line I knew this was wrong.
Remember how the oversight loved quoting the divorce statistics for the general population (ie. "one in three marriages in the world ends in divorce") as if everyone in that hall was exempt from it - if anything it seemed at times as if the RF strike rate was worse.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:23/01/2007 5:25 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : suomynona [Anonymous]



Too true, plus so many RF marriages happen for utterly stupid reasons. It's beyond me why people think they have to marry someone just because a pastor says so.




You are right, and it is beyond me as well. That is the key phrase - "because the pastor says so", yet these contol freaks generally know nothing about love, grace, the lost sheep, the prodigal son...etc etc. So why listen to them or do what they say? They often wouldn't know a scriptual principle if it came and bit them in the botty. As for advice and counselling, most appear completely inept.

As far as the word "pastor" goes, any organisation can call any man anything, even when they lack all of these qualities.

To quote from the famous 4th century nomadic warrior 'Letterlaw It-Killeth" - "Rise up, rise up oh ye people of Woodcroft, and cast off the shackles of oppression from men who could not lead you to the deli.."
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:23/01/2007 8:56 AMCopy HTML

I was married in the RF at the tender age of 19. And, I am still married !! (almost 22 years later). Many of the couples who were married around the same time as us have split, and many have left the fellowship. (oops! I meant the Lord! ) Only kidding!!. We have had more than our fair share of difficulties, but somehow managed to muddle through them. Oh, yeah, JKs son split with his wife. Its funny (more like sad) that she was put out, while he was allowed to stay....
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:23/01/2007 10:31 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

I was married in the RF at the tender age of 19. And, I am still married !! (almost 22 years later). Many of the couples who were married around the same time as us have split, and many have left the fellowship. (oops! I meant the Lord! ) Only kidding!!. We have had more than our fair share of difficulties, but somehow managed to muddle through them. Oh, yeah, JKs son split with his wife. Its funny (more like sad) that she was put out, while he was allowed to stay....
sounds like they are respecters of people and not impartial. I wonder if Woodcroft is the same as the Vogue?
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:25/01/2007 1:44 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Shiny red car]%*'`@
Have heard some pretty worrying stuff about Kuhlmanns son in law, Chris Kernahan.
Apparently Elizabeth assembly up north were happy to have "got rid of him"
This all comes from so many different sources, his position as a Rev Pastor seems pretty hypocritical. The word nepotism comes to mind.

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:26/01/2007 12:37 PMCopy HTML

Hi There all, heard a few weeks ago that there may be some "old families" moving on from woodcroft, wonder who they are? Let us all keep them in our prayer/thoughts as they go through this time as we all know what a hard and confusion/conflicting time this can be.

re jk son has been through 2 marrages second one lasted a matter of months (we must also remember that he is a product of his upbringing and pray for him for a revalation fron God)

Canberra pastor I have heard is alos in a position of transition from what i have heard, has been very supportive of an ex rev going to Vanuatu and seeing and doing amazing miricles over there through the power of God.

Also very aware of how quite a few east coast pastors are not happy with jk regime and are wanting to do there own thing regardless and we all know where that will end. pray for wisdom and guidence for all involved.

Most exciting thing to happen in  this group for awhile.

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:27/01/2007 10:23 PMCopy HTML

ahh - its all 'i heard this' and 'i heard that' - rather than post all these maybes etc does anyone have any REAL info to back anything up as to whats going on, or is it all just rumour and heresay blown out of proportion etc.  I find all this so hard to follow as everyone is so VAGUE.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:28/01/2007 6:24 AMCopy HTML

I have a friend who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said that there are at least 10 ex-Woodcroft who left recenently who now attend Edge Church.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:28/01/2007 10:53 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



ahh - its all 'i heard this' and 'i heard that' - rather than post all these maybes etc does anyone have any REAL info to back anything up as to whats going on, or is it all just rumour and heresay blown out of proportion etc. I find all this so hard to follow as everyone is so VAGUE.





did you consider that the reason everyone is "so VAGUE" may be that they want to avoid [a] identifying themselves and naming individuals who might not want to be named

yes 20 or so people have left woodcroft. yes many of them are going to the Edge which was formerly Southside AOG. yes one person was put out of the group and the reason given was that he was white-anting the pastors.

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:28/01/2007 1:32 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

did you consider that the reason everyone is "so VAGUE" may be that they want to avoid [a] identifying themselves andnaming individuals who might not want to be namedyes 20 or so people have left woodcroft. yes many of them are going to the Edge which was formerly Southside AOG. yes one person was put out of the group and the reason given was that he was white-anting the pastors.

I have heard the pastors at woodcroft are objectionable at best. Maybe this person was only telling the truth about the pastors. ( i have never been in woodcroft btw).

 

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:31/01/2007 7:52 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : suomynona [Anonymous]



Someone correct me if wrong but I believe DK met her outside the group and brought her along then married herHeard during the week that a guy at Woodcroft was disfellowshipped for undermining the leaders




If this is so, I feel very sorry for this man (whom I have never met). It is a crying shame to think that there are probably heaps of suitable partners well established in other groups, and RF'ers are not allowed anywhere near them.

Maybe JK will retire soon before more wheels fall off (the Woodcroft exodus continues).It may be easier to disappear than to have to admit mistakes many years after making them.

How many people have foresaken careers, mortgages, study, pensions, etc etc and followed the organization? How many friends have been lost,or families alienated? Not for following God, but for following an organization. Some RF pastors are paid and go hob-nobbing around the globe, & when retirement comes, I'm sure they will do ok.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:01/02/2007 8:24 AMCopy HTML

What is interesting here is that is it God who is unravelling the structure of the R/F churches across Australia? If so then things as they have been happening will continue until something further does happen. Its not like as though its a Jehova's witness type organization where its difficult to find anyone who believes in the bible and is spirit filled. I know of some folk  in the R/F who are prepared to lie to support the leaders and church as they believe that is what they should do,but things like this may well be preventing them from entering the kingdom,if that being the case then God may well be restructuring the church and if this does indeed happen, guess which churches will be next?

No prize given for answering that question.

 

 

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:03/02/2007 11:34 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Chartdoctor

Reply to Earth5Yes,its a bonafide r/f member from Adelaide who has been appointed as a worship leader to travel Australia somewhat, but in view of this event we dont know what is going to happen.regards
Since when have they called them worship leaders?? not wanting to be cynical ,quite excited to see things like this happening
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:03/02/2007 1:04 PMCopy HTML

I think some senior RF'ers are travelling Australia at the moment trying to put out spot- fires. I heard that one pastor from around the Canberra area has been stood down (or maybe out). I think he was allowing modern worship and preached on love, grace, charity etc. Obviously this cannot be allowed.

Hey JK, the more spot-fires you try and put out the more will flare up. Surely you can see this?
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 7:59 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Marmalade Pie

I think some senior RF'ers are travelling Australia at the moment trying to put out spot- fires. I heard that one pastor from around the Canberra area has been stood down (or maybe out). I think he was allowing modern worship and preached on love, grace, charity etc. Obviously this cannot be allowed.Hey JK, the more spot-fires you try and put out the more will flare up. Surely you can see this?
On the 21st of january Biggirl mentioned Canberra   yesterday Marmalade Pie ( what sort of name is that ) mentioned Canberra again regarding the Pastors    any body from Canberra or anywhere know anything
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 4:54 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : tshazaaaargh



On the 21st of january Biggirl mentioned Canberra yesterday Marmalade Pie ( what sort of name is that ) mentioned Canberra again regarding the Pastors any body from Canberra or anywhere know anything




Your name is worse than mine. I believe the pastor stood down is from Moruya (hope this is how you spell it).
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 6:32 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Marmalade Pie


I believe the pastor stood down is from Moruya (hope this is how you spell it).




Then it would be Steve Atkin at Eurobodalla? If that's the case it makes sense as he always seemed out of place among the hierarchy. Didn't have much to do with him personally but aside from the standard RF dogma his were among the few talks I enjoyed.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 7:53 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : misswooty



Then it would be Steve Atkin at Eurobodalla? If that's the case it makes sense as he always seemed out of place among the hierarchy. Didn't have much to do with him personally but aside from the standard RF dogma his were among the few talks I enjoyed.




Hi Miss Wooty and welcome again

Yes, that is the name I heard. I have never met Steve, but have heard that he has conducted some very uplifting non-RF type meetings. Apparently JK (who probably forced Steve down) was at Woodcroft recently following the start of the Woodcroft exodus. They always send the big-guns in to try and calm things down but it may all be past the point of calming down now. The bully boys are losing support of foundational members, the cat is out of the bag, the game is up.

Keep challenging the nonsense you Mighty Woodcroft Warriors.

Best wishes MW.

I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 8:07 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franklin64



Reply to : Marmalade PieReply to : misswootyThen it would be Steve Atkin at Eurobodalla? If that's the case it makes sense as he always seemed out of place among the hierarchy. Didn't have much to do with him personally but aside from the standard RF dogma his were among the few talks I enjoyed.Hi Miss Wooty and welcome againYes, that is the name I heard. I have never met Steve, but have heard that he has conducted some very uplifting non-RF type meetings. Apparently JK (who probably forced Steve down) was at Woodcroft recently following the start of the Woodcroft exodus. They always send the big-guns in to try and calm things down but it may all be past the point of calming down now. The bully boys are losing support of foundational members, the cat is out of the bag, the gam





I'm sure you are right but I don't know what you mean.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 8:13 PMCopy HTML

Well stuffed my first posting not a good start.

wow I found you guys today what a great forum. I can confirm Steve Atkins has been told to stand down (at least thats what the email said) yes it't time for some real change at least at RF, I'm not sure whats going on elswhere but let me say it blows the lid of the work when people who have been around 20 & 30 years start having a revelation of JESUS. The dogma, control, bully boy stuff, Jargon, group think you name it takes a hike. You're right, abusive control freaks dont like moving over for JESUS. Where have we heard that before.

 

see you soon

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:04/02/2007 8:24 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franklin64



Well stuffed my first posting not a good start.wow I found you guys today what a great forum. I can confirm Steve Atkins has been told to stand down (at least thats what the email said) yes it't time for some real change at least at RF, I'm not sure whats going on elswhere but let me say it blows the lid of the work when people who have been around 20 & 30 years start having a revelation of JESUS. The dogma, control, bully boy stuff, Jargon, group think you name it takes a hike. You're right, abusive control freaks dont like moving over for JESUS. Where have we heard that before.see you soon





Hi Franklin64
Very well said, and your point about JESUS is great. Someone I know in RF was mocked by an "elder" because he kept mentioning the name of JESUS. They said he was a Jesus Freak. Unbelievable really.

If you know Steve Atkins, could you please wish him all the best from the Pie family and say we have been thinking of him.

Cheers.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:05/02/2007 5:08 AMCopy HTML

Hi Marmalade

Thats not all that is being mocked, Steve Atkin & wife Katrina are just an example of 2 people who found a heart for God.

Pr Bob Crockford in Canberra got stood down because he took his daughter to a Hillsong conference.If you think theres trail of damage of people, check out the trail of ex Pastors and leaders, especially the ones that either have a heart for JESUS. I keep hearing about the woderful 50 year track record of this fellowship, I think it's time to start and debunk this rot. You've got to be jokeing I've been around over 25 years and been sucked into the character assination of so many good Leaders and members I'd amazed at how blind I've been. You only have to check out the current situation, watch how Adalaide guys get sent out to works everywhere and then see the end result. To name few at the moment- Hobart, Launceston, Melbourne & Port Maquarie the same brand of heaviness gets trotted out the same disasters (this is only current stuff) you guys have probably been noting this stuff since the site got going. Someone with some integrity should do a real history from the days of Tom Foster and Leo Harris and see what really happens, if this place isn't a cult I'll go he. I do believe however that Jesus (JC) is the head and not JK and he wants his chuch back. The holy Ghost is starting to move and people are waking up everywhere, I read Isaiah 29 in a few different versions this week wow- talk about a deep sleep. I'm going to hang in, theres too many good people now that need support. Then we can maybe make this place something Jesus might even come back into.

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Marmalade Pie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #30
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:05/02/2007 5:42 AMCopy HTML

Hi Franklin

Yes you are right, there are disasters everywhere. You wouldn't believe it, but I had just about given up posting on this forum until news began trickling through about the number of people hurting in Woodcroft. So here I am again suffering from an acute attack of indignation.

The little world of Adelaide pastors is shrinking as they try to close their community even further from reality. The truth is though that grown adults of 20+ years in the group can now see through their nonsense. It took me 16 years to see what the place was like and I didn't think I was controlled at all but I was wrong. What exactly did I think I was doing as a 28 year old man, sitting in a leaders front room asking if I could go out with a 27 year old woman? Where was my brain?

I know RF leaders here and abroad who have track records of pure disaster. The examples they have set are nothing to do with biblical leadership. Can you honestly imagine God looking down upon His creation and throwing His hands up in despair at the thought that most of His children are consigned to oblivion and the only ones who will be there on that day are in the RF, and the Woodcroft pastors are some of the main representatives of the only saved people?

Bunkum or what?

Have a good one mate. Cheers.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:05/02/2007 10:30 AMCopy HTML

Hi everyone,

I left the Woodcroft RF 1 month ago last sunday after having been born into the fellowship.

Yes Steve Atkins was stood down (by email nonetheless) and a few of the east coast assemblies have been given ultimatums to stop raising their hands, and basically just get in line or they will be put out. The letter that was circulated called our group (a group of people who were having prayer and worship sessions without oversight present) a spot fire that needed to be put out. Since then they've earned themselves a nickname from me - "satan's firemen". the prayer group were praying for love to come into the hearts of the oversight and were always careful to be positive and not backstab.

The group in eurobodella were the first, i believe there will be more to follow. They just dont realise how bad things are in adelaide at the moment. Some of them have a fair idea as some of the brothers that have just left work in canberra and stay in a house with Steve atkins as they work for the same company.

I could tell you guys things that would knock your socks off - but it's not my wish to share all of the corruption that i know of in the RF, as I feel that I need to stop talking about it and get over it. I will say though, that your comments of Chris Kernihan don't do satan enough justice! What i knew about him 5 years ago nearly killed me, and just recently i've heard even more. I've experienced his wrath as he yelled at me abusively for about half an hour when i asked him if what i'd heard was true. crazy stuff.

And yes, Dave Kulhman married someone who wasn't attending RF, she came to a couple of meetings though so he was allowed to marry her, even though other members aren't allowed to do that.

Some of the brothers and sisters i've been fellowshipping with recently (there are approx 20 people that have left RF to go to Edge recently) have been put through a hard time by the "oversight" (where did that word come from anyway???) and it's just sad to see some of the "pastors" acting the way they are. It seems to be getting alot worse lately, at woodcroft anyway. they've been yelling at people, telling them to burn their christian books and cds and repent or they can't come back (they were put out for having the prayer meetings and other such "naughty" things)

There has been an increase in anti-pentecost preaching as of late, because they're getting scared. I called a friend (I actually brought him to the Lord) last night and he yelled at me for no reason and told me he'd heard the best talks ever on the weekend and they were on salvation and you couldn't and wouldn't have heard the truth preached like that in any other church. I asked him to calm down and asked if he knew what the beliefs of Edge are, he said no, but that all other churches are wrong. I apologised to him for bringing him there a few years ago and he said i'll never be able to convince him to leave (not that I have tried to). I wish they would get out of his head. He used to be angry when i knew him for years before he came to the Lord, but when he came to the Lord his anger was taken away - now it's come back and it's all because someone has gotten in his ear with an evil word. All we can do is pray for them.

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:05/02/2007 8:39 PMCopy HTML

REPLY TO FRANKLIN:
Steve Atkin & wife Katrina are just an example of 2 people who found a heart for God.
Pr Bob Crockford in Canberra got stood down

Now theres 2 names I remember from their RCI days- from memories they were good, caring decent men with a heart that actually pumped red blood cells not like the others with hearts of stone.

I am of the belief that the entire tree stemmed from the original group will meet it's demise and as the scriptures say His sheep will be scattered

Jeremiah 23:1
"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!" saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed My people: "Ye have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not visited them. Behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings," saith the LORD.

So many of these so called Pastors serve their own bellies, Hopefuly what good is left in the rc orgs will escape and find peace and joy with people that serve the Lord and each other.
Can anyone tell me what- if anything is happening in sydney?- i use to have friends there.
As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:06/02/2007 4:46 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : outaegypt

REPLY TO FRANKLIN:Steve Atkin & wife Katrina are just an example of 2 people who found a heart for God.Pr Bob Crockford in Canberra got stood downNow theres 2 names I remember from their RCI days

Well outaegypt, It's not quite so simple as being good guys , you see After 30 years in the Lord & 20 Pastoring Steve had a mini breakdown as did Katrina, after that they both had a breakthrough.

These guys might have had some energy for the work and the organization, however they both found Jesus for the first time after years of organizational followthrough. This is major stuff that is happening in churches everywhere. Have a look at Isiaia 29 and consider that God puts the Leaders into a Deap Sleep (trance) no-one can understand his word until he lifts it. There really is some stuff going on. People are getting a taste up the power & revelation. It's got nothing to do with Law, Control. It's all about freedom, liberty & JOY of the Holy GHost, the HOLY GHost is lifting his voice about the things of God. There is power and it's that power thats being shut down by the Hierarchy. When I read my bible about this stuff all I see is reference after reference of pharisism. What we've been doing as a church & I reckon the whole lot to varying degreees that are featured on this forum, have fallen into the same trap  the Galatians did. Galations 3 . Most of us begun in the Spirit and then we soon began these walks based on performance putting ourselvces back under LAW.                   Having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect in the flesh?

After that you can forget Power & Revelation, why would God ever reveal anything of the Son  , he can't , whe've put ouselves back under LAW. Anyway I have a mate at the AOG and he reckons this is not just happening in RF its happening all over the place, people are waking up. Maybe it's time we'll see the real Chief Shepherd. Scriptures flood to my mind but that seems to be happening heaps lately. I think I'm getting excited at the prospect of God doing a work. Yeh funny that , 25 years in the place I'm getting excited and one things for sure many Leaders are living and acting out of fear. What they fear of course is loss of control. Maybe soon they 'll start having a revelation of the Chief Sheperd and give the church back to it's head (JESUS). Yep exciting times,-man will we want to whorship then. 'Jehovah Jirah' will never sound the same.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:06/02/2007 8:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franklin64

Reply to : outaegyptREPLY TO FRANKLIN:Steve Atkin & wife Katrina are just an example of 2 people who found a heart for God.Pr Bob Crockford in Canberra got stood downNow theres 2 names I remember from their RCI daysWell outaegypt, It's not quite so simple as being good guys , you see After 30 years in the Lord & 20 Pastoring Steve had a mini breakdown as did Katrina, after that they both had a breakthrough.These guys might have had some energy for the work and the organization, however they both found Jesus for the first time after years of organizational followthrough. This is major stuff that is happening in churches everywhere. Have a look at Isiaia 29 and consider that God puts the Leaders into a Deap Sleep (trance) no-one can understand his word un

 

 

Interesting points everyone.. But have you guys been to these other churches (aside from the RF/RCI)?? They are so far from the word of God, it makes me sick. I've been to plenty of pentecostal churches and spent time there seeing what they do, what they preach and their standards... The lives some of these people lead outside the church makes me sick!

But, they do see miracles, blessings, etc.. and have joy, peace, etc... But there's just something not right..

By the way, some of the stories coming out of the RF-RCI over the years are so far from the truth, i have to laugh.. Be careful of what you hear/who you believe..

 

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:06/02/2007 8:35 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : micr0s0ft



Interesting points everyone.. But have you guys been to these other churches (aside from the RF/RCI)?? They are so far from the word of God, it makes me sick. I've been to plenty of pentecostal churches and spent time there seeing what they do, what they preach and their standards... The lives some of these people lead outside the church makes me sick!

But, they do see miracles, blessings, etc.. and have joy, peace, etc... But there's just something not right..

By the way, some of the stories coming out of the RF-RCI over the years are so far from the truth, i have to laugh.. Be careful of what you hear/who you believe..





Your warning "be careful of what you hear/who you believe" could just as equally apply to stories from the big bad world of pentecostal churches. There are exaggerated accounts from either side but that in itself doesn't discount what people on this forum have seen and experienced for themselves.

The lives some people in the RF lead outside the church makes me sick too. And there's something just not right about that.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:06/02/2007 1:33 PMCopy HTML

Interesting reply microsoft, can you please re-read my comments and give some thought again. I'm not trying to compare churches. If I'm not being clear then I'll have another go. I'm suggesting that people are having breakthroughs, this has nothing to do with where you attend. It does have everything to do with where you go, go to the alter fall down repent and whorship the Son in the Spirit and see the Father revealed. You know I picked up an interesting read about 6 months ago called 'Repenting of Religion' I've since gone on to read some stuff by Rick Joyner- the Quest & Call these helped me . You know there are intersting comments made that have helped the wake up call for me. I realized that I'd become religious and was believing the diatribe & party line I was being fed (25 years mate RCI, RF). So you can try the running from church to church tasting the various culures & administrations or you can have a go at seeking God without the rubbish where you are, I personally think we can take reponsibility for WAL where we are you don't have to jump ship although some have been forsed to do that ie Woodcroft (I'm not talking about seeking in the way which most of us stopped when we were encouraged to press in for the Holy Ghost and recieved) press in the Holy Spirit was always only the means to the relationship not the relationship----Keep going . Repent , fall on the rock.  As if i'ts not enough to go across the forum same stories RF,RCI,GRC etc etc. What you are seeing and hearing is fruit or lack of it. This place is crawling with real people trying to tell there stories of what religion has done and how it has betrayed them. Different banners same stuff. If these stories don't touch your heart then one thing is for sure you don't have shepherds heart. A real sheperd (the Chief Shepherd) would be grieving for the disaster stories here.       Oh yeh JUDGEMENT its a killer check your language.     I honour the people here that have the guts to speak up. Just maybe when they use the pages to shake of the rot they'll see without the angst, bitterness, hurt. Every emotion that has been and is being felt is real, some of the language is pretty strong, come on microsoft have another look. If you haven't already , go and read some more and feel the pain. These people are your Brothers and Sisters in Christ , there part of the Body, real Sprit Filled people in dire straights. If the body is hurting like this how do you think the HEAD is feeling. Forget the Banners & Name tags this is the BODY.

 

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #37
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:07/02/2007 4:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : biggirl [Anonymous]


Seems to be a bit of a haemmorage at Woodcroft church in Adelaide. Lots of old families left

Hi Big Girl, I heard a couple more families left Woodcroft this week. Will the Leaders really notice, after all a couple of Hundred left some years ago and all they seemed to do was assasinate characters and point the blame away.  


it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:07/02/2007 6:09 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : meg36



what exactly is happening at Woodcroft? I can't ask my dad cos he still goes there!!!!. I am wondering if any families I know have left.





Meg,

If he goes there, I'd have thought he would be a good one to ask! (Or are you and your Dad not talking about such things). Ask him anyway! Its good to talk and get stuff out in the open. You never know, you may find a bit of dialogue breaks through to him. Go for it!


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:08/02/2007 5:48 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : meg36

what exactly is happening at Woodcroft? I can't ask my dad cos he still goes there!!!!. I am wondering if any families I know have left.

Hi Meg, If you want to talk to your Dad ask him about Canberra 400 left in last 10 years. Last week they shut Hobart. In Bunduberg what was 250 people is now about 25 and JK is going up at end of month to sort it out, still more unrest. Go back down the coast to Port Maquarie that recently saw 30 go, down to Moruya where if you are following some of the messages Steve Atkin has been emailed and disindorsed as a Pr.     Then of coarse Melbourne is suffering , people put out waiting to be heard (small fish). I personally can't help apply Ezekial 34  Wo the Shepherds of Israel etc. go have a look. We need the Chief Shepherd to appear and the true sheep will hear his voice and can you begin to imagine those people coming out in droves from under all the banners. I have a mental image of the leaders rushing out saying come back, come back don't get mixed up in this thing, you know how bad Penticost is , don't get Charismatic. Oh stop that whorship , put your hands down, dont look up like that with your eyes closed and whorshipping. Why are you insisting on singing those awful Hillsong whorship songs, whats wrong Jehovah Jirah? There will be a group that on that day will be informed "I never knew you, do you think it will be the starving, lost, the misguided sheep. What group do you think the Chief Shepherd will have compassion on.

Boy I think I got of the track, anyway have fun with dad, you might help him in love to work out his own salvation. Who knows you might even have to go look up a scripture or 2 and see sum stuff youself. This walk of ours is just a bubby bit more than what we have been led to believe. As for me I'm pleased I came to a group that directed me to the Water & Spirit, however Gal 3:3 Having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect in the Flesh and so on.....Oh how I love the Word of God.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:08/02/2007 6:41 AMCopy HTML

Hey Franklin64,

Like you I am very excited to see what is happening to the revers and the way that God is moving his people to places of safety

What Church do you now attend? if any .

When I and my wife left some ten years ago God revealed the scripture re wow unto you shepards etc, we loved the part we it promised that I will bring you ionto green pastures etc boy did we rejoice in that one and it is/was so true for us. God really took us to a very "safe" place where we where loved and nurtured (and deprogramed after 30 plus years)

regards

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:08/02/2007 8:00 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5

Hey Franklin64,Like you I am very excited to see what is happening to the revers and the way that God is moving his people to places of safetyWhat Church do you now attend? if any .When I and my wife left some ten years ago God revealed the scripture re wow unto you shepards etc, we loved the part we it promised that I will bring you ionto green pastures etc boy did we rejoice in that one and it is/was so true for us. God really took us to a very "safe" place where we where loved and nurtured (and deprogramed after 30 plus years)regards
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:08/02/2007 8:07 AMCopy HTML

oops! wrong button. However. I would love to speak to my dad, but he is so engrained it would be useless. When we left about 3 years ago, I had hoped (ha ha) that old friendswould keep in contact. I should add that my dad is an old timer. having been going to RCI/RF for 25 years now. We never discuss anything which is going on.

Anyway, whats this about Hobart? I though Kevin Williams was running that, although I had heard he is coming back to Adelaide because his wife has, or had cancer. So, rather than appointing someone else, they are shutting it down?

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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:08/02/2007 6:02 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : meg36


Anyway, whats this about Hobart? I though Kevin Williams was running that, although I had heard he is coming back to Adelaide because his wife has, or had cancer. So, rather than appointing someone else, they are shutting it down?



I didn't know D had cancer, if that's true I hope shes OK.
Hobart would have imploded anyway under K's dictatorship. Too much of the old school Adelaide control freak mentality. In Hobart he would get stuck into people because he didn't think they were arriving early enough for meetings, so with that approach there probably aren't enough people left to appoint someone else.

It's the same old story from the hardline RF oversight ... don't care how you're going or what's happening in your life, as long as you dutifully show up, look happy, hand over your 10% and do as you're told.
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:09/02/2007 5:40 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : meg36


I had hoped (ha ha) that old friendswould keep in contact.




It just shows how unreal the whole scenario is. Deep down everybody knows that if they leave then all their friends will disappear. So the whole friendship thing is based upon remaining a member of good standing. Walking in the spirit in RF generally means complying with all the rules and regulations.

It is a closed community and is not real life. The longer you remain and have your friendship base there only, forsaking all others, the harder and more difficult it becomes to leave the cult.
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:09/02/2007 10:34 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Marmalade Pie



It just shows how unreal the whole scenario is. Deep down everybody knows that if they leave then all their friends will disappear. So the whole friendship thing is based upon remaining a member of good standing. Walking in the spirit in RF generally means complying with all the rules and regulations.It is a closed community and is not real life. The longer you remain and have your friendship base there only, forsaking all others, the harder and more difficult it becomes to leave the cult.





That is worth repeating!

Marmalade, your post sums most of what is wrong with being a member of these cults. Hit the nail right on the head there. Well said!


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:10/02/2007 5:49 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Marmalade Pie

 Walking in the spirit in RF generally means complying with all the rules and regulations.It is a closed community and is not real life. The longer you remain and have your friendship base there only, forsaking all others, the harder and more difficult it becomes to leave the cult.

I struggle a little to put a handle on what you are saying, I keep coming back to your comment and feel it deserves a decent response. Walking in the Spirit in my bible means you are going to have a battle with the flesh Gal 5:15-16 this comment of yours triggers so many thoughts for me. What some members have allowed to happen to them as equivalent to abuse. Hence the term cult again and again across the forum. Maybe I'm missing something because I've been in a pretty good part of the vinyard in Toowoomba for 24 years. Most of my battles have been the Flesh v's Spirit stuff, I didn't have the added burden of the fruit of legalism (although I have no doubt because you guys tell the stories). Not that I've also ever had to check out the stuff on Cults or Abuse but maybe I should!  I do see one thing starting to come clear though.

When a fellowship and it's Leadership acts in such a way as to ; as we have experienced , have this incredible focus on getting people baptised and Speaking in Tongues and then start exposing them to the rules regs. and or guidelines. I wonder if at any point we actually know ourselves what it is to walk in the SPIRIT. To me this seems to be the challenge. All the Leadership know is what they have been directed to do and when people start to ask a few more questions and are not getting the answers that are feed in the Spiritfilled Walk the the Sheep start to look elswhere to feed.

Initially the loyalty factor is such that because your friends are in the place and this is where you recieved you hang in, but looking for something to feed on. Many seem to first turn their attention to places like Koorong book shop, books , dvd's, talks, other translations to help with explainations of the Word, any way a Walk seems to start outside the expected model. Sometimes if ideas come and you start and share them it is possible to have Leadership start to act in fear because of there own ignorance and this cycle of Fear , Ignorance can lead to Control. Out of hand and over a period of time these ignorant blind Leaders can become Blind Leaders of the Blind Matt 15: 14 & Matt 23: 15 (heavy stuff). It's this bit that troubles me there are both Leaders and Followers.  If we are led of the Spirit then  1 John 2 : 26 applies. How many of us Spirit Filled actually know what it is to Walk in the Spirit. My thought are for 35 or 40 years of this Fellowships 50 year history somewhere we lost the plot. It became more about the organisation.

I've heard some say we need to hand this church back to Jesus and once more make hime the Head, probably many churches face the same stuff, the 3 or 4 on this forum are only a taste of chrisindom. Toowoomba's got mountains of them. Where can we go to really be taught of the Lord to Walk in the Spirit so we won't fullfill the Lust of the flesh? So if we have identified abuse, control and fear in one place whats stopping it happening again & again and in the end you just stay-stuff it this chistianity thing is bullshit. Who wins then  (THE ENEMY) so do you think his subtilties are at work here.

Please get a copy of the QUEST , Rick Joyner I read it at Chistmas 06 it will give the overview of this battle we have entered. As for me I dont want to be Led by a blind Leader, I will not be a victim, I will not be bitter toward those that are Blind, I'm going to do my best to find that place that is IN THE SPIRIT, BY THE SPIRIT, OF THE SPIRIT because the Holy Ghost has a job to do and that is to Speak of  th FATHER & SON.

Anyway Marmalade I think this posting has been more about me trying to get clear on what the HELL is going on. I refuse to be a victim, I'll start swingin soon. But I also don't want to get bitter (NO SPIRIT THERE)

 

 

 

 

 

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Marmalade Pie Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #47
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:10/02/2007 9:49 AMCopy HTML

Reply to dogmafree & franklin64:

Hi there, wow dogma, a compliment, thankyou for that. I must get a photo of you and frame it on my wall.

Frankin, regarding "walking in the spirit" I was referring to an RF leaders perspective which I am sure you recognise. At Woodcroft recently (so I have been told), members have been having prayer meetings for the oversight to change - in other words the people wanted the leaders to stop bullying, controlling, gossiping, labelling, and show more understanding, grace and compassion of people and situations. The fact that the oversight are like this however surely disqualifies them from actual biblical leadership. The problem then becomes that any organisation can call any man anything - pastor, elder etc etc. But this does not make it biblical or of the Spirit.

These Woodcroft members showed particular insight in what they were doing. They have a handle on reality lost to the leaders who are in the strange world of obedience to themselves, labelling, gossiping, dividing, and identifying people and situations as problems - things that in fact are not biblical problems at all.

What is even worse is that in an RF leaders opinion (though they may deny this), when a person is removed from fellowship they are outside of the blessings of God. Of course this is nonsense, but they believe it, and it shows the very nature of the beast each time a person is removed from fellowship. In their minds they are willing to remove people from God to teach those people a lesson. You may be allowed to phone them once a month etc etc....you know how it is. It is a shocking and callous mindset.

So in an RF pastors opinion, the people who have left Woodcroft are not walking in the spirit. Should they agree to once again follow the oversight and be cowed down, and say nothing, and be good, and cause no problems, and turn up to everything, and turn a blind eye to mistreatment of people, and say "yes pastor Nong", "no pastor Nong"... - then they will be restored to within the boundaries of the blessings of God, and be once again "walking in the spirit"
I know what you"re thinking....did I put 5 people out or 6?... I guess in all the excitement I kinda lost count myself...so the question is, do you feel lucky?...well do you, punk? - Clint Eastwood
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #48
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:10/02/2007 2:12 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Marmalade Pie


Reply to dogmafree & franklin64:

Yeah I get your point, I suppose I went on a tangent of taking responsibility for you own walk , even under duress that we seek the THROWN OF GOD.

The other thing is I'm not at all schooled on Abuse and how it works. I printed some stuff off Cult Web yesterday I'm yet to read it.

So I'd like some direction in this stuff so I don't fall victim to abuse and can help those who have. The old catch phrase "Just Pray about it just doesn't seem to fit"

Anyway I was a part of another Great Holy Ghost meeting today.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Ex_Member Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #49
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:10/02/2007 7:40 PMCopy HTML

And what church was the Holy Ghost meeting at ? sorry if I sound a bit skeptical

ta

 

 

Reply to : franklin64


Reply to : Marmalade PieReply to dogmafree & franklin64:Yeah I get your point, I suppose I went on a tangent of taking responsibility for you own walk , even under duress that we seek theTHROWN OF GOD.The other thing is I'm not at all schooled on Abuse and how it works. I printed some stuff off Cult Web yesterday I'm yet to read it.So I'd like some direction in this stuff so I don't fall victim to abuse and can help those who have. The old catch phrase "Just Pray about it just doesn't seem to fit"Anyway I was a part of another Great Holy Ghost meeting today.
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #50
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Re:Kuhlman gets tough

Date Posted:10/02/2007 7:46 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5


And what church was the Holy Ghost meeting at ?

It was Toowoomba RF, today cooked!!!!!!!


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