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Didaktikon
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Date Posted:10/03/2008 8:52 AMCopy HTML

Hi, all.

I've just received a copy of Jock Duncan's self-published e-book, The God Driven Church. I was wondering if anyone has read it?

Blessings,

Ian

P.S. I've just skimmed the thing. Holy Dooly! British Israel, Bible Numerics and Pyramidology all get a nod alongside the standard Revivalist "1-2-3" nonsense!
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:10/03/2008 9:24 AMCopy HTML

I skimmed (< 5 min) through a hardcopy verion of it at my RF bookshop last year, didn't like the typography, found the writing style poor and concluded that my money would be better spent elsewhere. It seemed like elevating someone who didn't fare too well in his pastoral role in NZ to an unwarranted 'elder statesman' position.

I didn't really come to grips with the content but my impression was that it was an autobiograpical ramble masquerading as teaching (or was that rambing teaching masquerading as autobiography?), with a title that was a rip-off from a well known popular (populist?) series. I couldn't easily find an intro or conclusion, so I decided that if the author/editor couldn't get those basics sorted out, I'd probably end up spending too much time struggling through the book with no net benefit.

If there's a subsequent edition that's well edited, I might look at it again if the price were right.

PS I just skimmed through the free on-line pdf. Nope. I won't be downloading it.
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:11/03/2008 1:11 AMCopy HTML

Thought it might have been based on Rick Warren's "The Purpose Driven Life" so had a quick browse.
It's not!  In fact I struggled to find any purpose to the book at all - it appears to be a rambling on (much like Jock's sermons) of jumbled thoughts that go nowhere but take many hours to get there. It's more of a poorly written autobiography of Jock & Hellen's lives with quite atrocious spelling mistakes and grammar throughout the whole book.  (Jock, consider undertaking a creative writing course, please!)

I know Jock & Hellen quite well (even though they wouldn't consider me a friend any longer as I have left the "God driven church') and the book is really the story of their lives with the usual Revival doctrine (BI, pyramids etc) thrown in for good measure (or so that they could officially sell it in their bookshops).

I can't see the book reaching out to the wider community to share the gospel of Christ in any way, shape or form. It may be of slight interest to those in RF with their limited boundaries and gives them something 'appropriate' to read that has been 'endorsed' by the oversight. Don't foget they are 'forbidden' to read any other 'Christian' books in case they become corrupted by anything non-RF. If you read the reviews of the book - they are all written by other RF pastors (ha ha ha) 

Interestingly he doesn't mention that ALL of their children left Revival many years ago and now fellowship in other 'Pentecostal churches' - funny how you can have children & grandchildren and NEVER mention them (in your sermons or in your books or even just chatting with other saints) cos you are "ashamed" that they no longer go to the same church as you!!?  Very sad!

Urch
Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:11/03/2008 11:35 PMCopy HTML

Well, I read the entire thing last night, and was sorely disappointed (although not in any way surprised). To begin with, the work would benefit from a thorough proof-reading and "clean-up"; it's simply far too "shoddy" and unprofessional in its current state.

With respect to the "doctrinal" elements, no surprises there! Standard Revivalist drivel and Scripture-wresting, coupled with an amazing degree of naivety when it comes to the long-disproven rubbish of "BI", "Bible numerics" and "Pyramidology".

And finally, the entire piece presents as being intended as a work of RF apologetics. But I have to wonder, what sort of person does the RF believe would be convinced by such mis-informed nonsense?

It really does beggar belief Undecided

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:12/03/2008 6:14 AMCopy HTML

 I know his girls found it embrassing, i skimed it myself, had a giggle, words like the dutchies (ie people from holland) was excrutiating
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:16/03/2008 5:47 AMCopy HTML

THE GOD DRIVEN CHURCH By Jock Duncan.

About a year ago when I read Jock's book I was amused by the words under the author's name "40 years a Pentecostal Preacher."  To my RF eyes this seemed rather un RF.  In my neck of the woods it would be unheard of to call a Spiritfilled pastor a Pentecostal Preacher - and scorned.  Likewise scorned was a Pentecostal church where people affirming the preacher's words would mutter "preach it Preacher, preach it" (not RF lingo) rather than "and all the people said....."
In my early "walk" I was ticked off for filling out a form with Pentecostal as my church of choice instead of Spiritfilled Christian with Revival Centres included.

There were even more surprises  within the  pages of Jock's book.  Besides Pentecostal Preacher there was Holy Ghost baptism (receiving the Spirit), born again christian (Spiritfilled), Pentecostal Revival, and here's a good one, inside the Pentecostal umbrella.

Strangely there was no direct reference to Revival Fellowship Church, which is of course, linked to Revival Çentres - the two churches where Jock spent his 40 plus years.  John Kuhlmann and Jack Clay receive a mention, although not in association with RF or RCI.  The general term of fellowship or assembly plus fledgeling assembly and fledgeling Pentecostal fellowship etc were used instead.  However, Jock's Email address appears throughout and his contact telephone number is on page 2.

With hard cover and possibly revised editions now available one wonders if this will become the official RF manual and witnessing tool as it covers all RF teaching  - healing, water baptism, second coming and more:-

                          Chapter  5             The Wanderer's Race                      British Israel
                                        7             The Wonderful Numberer               Bible Numerics
                                       12            The Land of Mizraim                       Pyramid/Aswan Dam
                                       13            The Great Çontroversy                   Tongues

All appropriate reading for RF folk, especially given the author's standing as an RF pastor.  While not of literary excellence, it is simple enough for RF folk to understand, (ie bible numerics) become excited about and want to pass on to unsaved relatives and friends.

Part of Jock's brief forward reads "this book is an accumulation of 40 plus years of experience as a "Pentecostal Preacher."  (inverted commas mine)  I hope it has God's imprimatur.

Well, I'm sure it has John Kuhlmann's imprimatur given the close family connections - Jock being John's brother-in-law - their respective wives Hellen and Janet are sisters.

I believe the aim of this book is to combine the RF message into one reader friendly book for witnessing, softened by Jock's nice testimony and history.  It would be unthreatening to the unsuspecting reader by the absence of reference to a particular church, namely Revival Fellowship, but with Jock's Email address and contact telephone number available. 
Other churches, including Pentecostal  are named as a subtle put-down. 

The sign off - Jock Duncan from "Down Under" implies a possible wide circulation.  

On the whole, as one with prior knowledge of the wily ways of RF, I regardless, found the book an entertaining read.

Epi

Ps      
Jock might even be available to sign copies at the upcoming RF convention.
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:29/03/2008 5:09 PMCopy HTML

Hi, all.

I've just received a copy of Jock Duncan's self-published e-book, The God Driven Church. I was wondering if anyone has read it?

Blessings,

Ian

P.S. I've just skimmed the thing. Holy Dooly! British Israel, Bible Numerics and Pyramidology all get a nod alongside the standard Revivalist "1-2-3" nonsense!


I would challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to publicly publish the said document....

Why not submit it for consideration ???  Surely if it is a worthy veritable document, then the Revival Fellowships may in some way have consideration as a doctrinally sound Christian Fellowship..

I challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to "put their necks on the chopping block" of academic accountability. If the document is deemed veritable to the eyes of the membership of the Revival Fellowship then surely it can be proven veritable to the eyes of the whole of Christendom.

Eric  

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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:31/03/2008 11:43 AMCopy HTML

I would challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to publicly publish the said document....Why not submit it for consideration  ???  Surely if it is a worthy veritable document, then the Revival Fellowships may in some way have consideration as a doctrinally sound Christian Fellowship.. I challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to "put their necks on the chopping block" of academic accountability. If the document is deemed veritable to the eyes of the membership of the Revival Fellowship then surely it can be proven veritable to the eyes of the whole of Christendom. Eric   
        __________________________________________________________________________

Hi Eric,

Jock HAS published the book "The God Driven Church" and has this little 'disclosure' in the first few pages;

"These thoughts and beliefs are mine and mine alone. You may or may not agree with some or all of these thoughts. People mentioned in the book also may or may not agree with some or all of these thoughts. This book is an accumulation of 40 plus years of experience as a Pentecostal Preacher. I hope I have God's imprimatur."  

I guess that sort of gives him a bit of an 'out' should there be any discrepancies in some of his language or explanations. I have a copy in front of me right now - it is an extremely poorly written book and if I were him I would be undertaking a writing course at the very least before publishing any further works.

In closing he thanks the readers and reiterates AGAIN (bit paranoid Jock?) that these are HIS thoughts alone. He then goes on to finish with " I hope you will admit that this book exalts the word, exalts God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit above any of the thoughts and ideals of man". Funny comment to make?

The back cover states that "Jock & Hellen both heard the 'full Gospel message' in the 1950's... The Pentecostal Revival was still mostly unheard of throughout the world."

Maybe in HIS small town it was unheard of but in fact it was the time of the Billy Graham crusades, Oral Roberts, Derek Prince and many other Pentecostal preachers who preached to HUGE crowds of people. Perhaps because they hadn't had much contact with the wider world in their small town they were unaware of the bigger movement - much like today in their small fellowship, they don't 'see' what's happening around them and instead choose to remain separate/segregated from the church, the bride, the body of Christ.

Urch

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:01/04/2008 1:43 AMCopy HTML








I would challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to publicly publish the said document....

Why not submit it for consideration ???  Surely if it is a worthy veritable document, then the Revival Fellowships may in some way have consideration as a doctrinally sound Christian Fellowship..

I challenge both John Kuhlman and Jock Duncan to "put their necks on the chopping block" of academic accountability. If the document is deemed veritable to the eyes of the membership of the Revival Fellowship then surely it can be proven veritable to the eyes of the whole of Christendom.

Eric  


Hi Eric, 

It would certainly be an interesting challenge for Jock and John to "put their necks on the chopping block" of Christian accountability. In Jock and John's RF thinking there would be no reason and no need to submit this, or anything, for consideration.  It has been said often enough from the front that RCI/now RF are right (remember the narrow gate) and all others are wrong, nonetheless sincerely wrong.

Epi
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Re:Jock Duncan's e-book

Date Posted:02/05/2008 5:27 PMCopy HTML

 Just a bit of trivia.

It seems these days Jock Duncan is doing some travelling and giving much acclaimed talks to RF assemblies to introduce, especially to younger members, a sense of, er, history, tradition and RF identity, with excerpts from his book "The God Driven Church".

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