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featheredserpent
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Date Posted:19/04/2005 2:23 PMCopy HTML

One test for a Christian is "what Jesus says about prayer." The author of the Gospel of Matthew stated this clearly:"Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."The reference to go into thy closet has been translated in other versions of the Bible as "go into your inner room." "go away by yourself," "all alone," "your [most] private room," "enter into thy chamber," and "go into your room." The message of Mathew 6:6 clearly implies that:Jesus condemns prayers in situations where other people are present prayers are to be an intensely personal event between a person and their God; no one else should be present.One can infer that, according to the author of Matthew, prayers should not be given in groups, whether at school, in church, in synagogue, or in a legislature.Some commentaries on these passages are:The Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible (1) states, with reference to Matt. 6:6 that:"...prayer and fasting are to be purely private acts involving only God and the penitent one."Matthew Henry's Commentary (2) states:"Instead of praying in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, enter into thy closet, into some place of privacy and retirement. Isaac went into the field..., Christ to a mountain, Peter to a housetop."Asimov's Guide to the Bible (3) states:"Jesus....decries giving alms openly, praying in public...Jesus points out that if it is human acclaim that is wanted, then...that is all the reward that is likely to come."The Gospels contain many references to Jesus praying, including:Matthew 26:36-44: These verses describe how Jesus went with three disciples, left them behind and went further to pray alone. This is a well known passage in which his disciples fell asleep at Gethsemane.Mark 1:35: Jesus is described as going to a solitary place to pray.Luke 3:21: This passage describes how Jesus was baptized and was in prayer when the Holy Ghost descended. Unfortunately, this passage does not describe how and where Jesus was praying.Luke 5:16: Jesus is described as often going to lonely places to prayLuke 6:12: Jesus withdrew to a mountainside to pray. Verse 13 implies that he was alone at the time.Luke 9:19: Jesus was praying alone, with his disciples in the vicinity.John 16, 17: These chapters are ambiguous about the circumstances of Jesus' prayer just before his arrest. He first talked to his disciples; then he prayed, then he went with his disciples across the Kidron valley. It is not clear where the disciples were located when Jesus prayed. But if he was consistent with the pattern described in other passages, he would have left the disciples behind, and prayed to God in private.It would appear that Jesus promoted private prayer, and condemned public prayer. A Bible-believing Christian would logically oppose prayer in school and other public places.
I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.
H. L. Mencken
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 11:50 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@

This is what I think.

I don't think Jesus condemned it but I do think he thought it was a good idea to pray in private.  However, since his death and resurrection, I believe, that His Spirit  prays for me and, it is, indeed private.  My Spirit is making intercession as I go about my day to day life.  My whole life is a prayer and no one can see this except myself and God alone.  I think Jesus going off to pray symbolises how we pray today, through the Holy Spirit. 

A lot of things changed in regards to prayer and what prayer is when the Holy Spirit was poured out.  Where once we would have had to go on our knees and pray using our own words, now, we have the Holy Spirit who prays for us.   

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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 1:17 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Calamity [Anonymous]

This is what I think.I don't think Jesus condemned it but I do think he thought it was a good idea to pray in private. However, since his death and resurrection, I believe, that His Spirit prays for me and, it is, indeed private. My Spirit is making intercession as I go about my day to day life. My whole life is a prayer and no one can see this except myself and God alone. I think Jesus going off to pray symbolises how we pray today, through the Holy Spirit.A lot of things changed in regards to prayer and what prayer is when the Holy Spirit was poured out. Where once we would have had to go on our knees and pray using our own words, now, we have the Holy Spirit who prays for us.
And just how does the Holy Spirit pray for us?
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 3:19 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@Ask him!  I'm sure he'll tell you
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 3:25 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Calamity [Anonymous]



Ask him! I'm sure he'll tell you





You don't know, experts? Maybe you will find the answer in the scriptures, what do you think...
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 3:34 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@

No doubt I will but I wasn't the one asking the question was I?

Now  a question for you...How does one "pray without ceasing"?  If my belief is correct (and I know it is) then this scripture is being fulfilled through the Holy Spirit praying for me all day everyday (without ceasing) if not...then how DO YOU pray without ceasing?

Not only that how do you "sing in the spirit?" and how do you "walk in the spirit"? etc etc.  Just out of curiosity

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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 5:00 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Calamity [Anonymous]

No doubt I will but I wasn't the one asking the question was I?Now a question for you...How does one "pray without ceasing"? If my belief is correct (and I know it is) then this scripture is being fulfilled through the Holy Spirit praying for me all day everyday (without ceasing) if not...then howDO YOUpray without ceasing?Not only that how do you "sing in the spirit?" and how do you "walk in the spirit"? etc etc. Just out of curiosity

 

There's quite a bit of difference between the Holy Spirit's interceding for you, and your own prayer. I think you've got the two confused as if it was just the one.

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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:20/04/2005 8:43 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Calamity [Anonymous]



No doubt I will but I wasn't the one asking the question was I?Now a question for you...How does one "pray without ceasing"? If my belief is correct (and I know it is) then this scripture is being fulfilled through the Holy Spirit praying for me all day everyday (without ceasing) if not...then howDO YOUpray without ceasing?Not only that how do you "sing in the spirit?" and how do you "walk in the spirit"? etc etc. Just out of curiosity




You make confusion for yourself.
1 Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
You can pray with the spirit and you can pray with the understanding... two different things.
Why is it so hard for you to agree, that praying in the spirit is speaking in tongues?
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:21/04/2005 10:04 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@

Easy because SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO PRAY IN THE SPIRIT.  If so then the "pray without ceasing" scripture would go unfulfilled.

And why wont' you answer my questions?  I respect you enough to answer yours!

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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:21/04/2005 4:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Calamity [Anonymous]



Easy becauseSPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO PRAY IN THE SPIRIT. If so then the "pray without ceasing" scripture would go unfulfilled.And why wont' you answer my questions? I respect you enough to answer yours!




Acts 12:5 (King James Version)
5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.


Do you think they are still praying today, altough the situation is solved by the Lord?
And how do you pray while you are sleeping?
To pray without ceasing means to pray as much as you can, but it's our decision how intensive we want to pray for something. Do we pray only some minutes to receive a healing, or do we pray without ceasing till we have received the healing. If we pray in tongues, in the spirit, the Holy Spirit in us is praying, but we are able to stop and to start. We decide to open the mouth or not. I can't pray in understanding, with words, or in Spirit, with tongues, when i am sleeping, because then i am sleeping. To pray without ceasing is to pray as much as you are able to do.
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:21/04/2005 11:54 PMCopy HTML

another example of trying to interpret ambiguous scripture.

what's the big deal and who cares?

do it how you want to.

call it meditation or contemplation.

there's probably other stuff you're supposed to do without ceasing like loving etc. and how do you do that in your sleep?

what is praying? asking for something? a healing, a provision, for you or someone else.

it sounds like just dealing with the inadequacies of the world. and then it's hit and miss anyway... there's no gurantee.. if there was, then if the need was not met, that would mean that the prayer wasn't good enough or praying correctly.

praying in a closet is yet another brilliant concept by jesus which says don't just do it to look righteous. you don't need to go around praying etc. to prove anything to anyone... it can/should be private.

this is my opinion. and we all have one, even church leaders and bible-book writers.

from what i have learnt and seen (even when i was in church) praying's best fruit is the

COMFORT it gives you.

praying is about COMFORT. call it the COMFORT of the lord of whatever, but i hope you can see the relationship.

in fact 'they' say, if a plane was crashing, nearly everyone onboard would start praying in some way, even if it was in their head.

and this 'head'praying is the one you can do (basically) without ceasing.

constantly being mindful and putting it 'before the lord'. thinking about it, dwelling on it, positively thinking about the situation and well-wishing.

on the trivia tip, 'they' also say that 95% people believe in god, in some way or another.

but then again, i've heard that '63% of trivia is false'.

can we find the truth about this if we pray 'well' enough?

remembering there is no problem too small or large to pray about...
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:22/04/2005 12:08 AMCopy HTML



To pray without ceasing is to pray as much as you are able to do.




this may be well and true.

but if we spent our whole life praying, when do we gegt a chance to live life?

i though 'he' lost his life so that we might have a life.

this is the point i try to make all the time. there's so much we waste our time on, that we're not reaping the benefits of jesus' actions. almost makes his death in vain.

how much time do people spend in church and trying to work out the meaning of everything, when it can be so simple.

we are no longer under law, but under grace. we have entered the sabbath. etc. yet we're all squabbling about rules, doctrine, guidelines, fellowshipping only with particular people, etc.

it's so F*****G stupid. pathetic. and all the other stuff.

just like when we were told to put it to the lord and then leave it to him to sort out. if it doesn't get solved straight away, it's all part of the lord's plan. it all is anyway, so what's the point? why not take it a step further and say it's all been done anyway. pray if you want to feel more comfortable or have the space to think about and deal with/process the problem, but it's all going to go according to the lord's plan anyway, right?

all things work together for good for them that love the lord.

so just love the lord and your neighbour as yourself, right?

isn't that the new commandement he 'gave unto you?'

isn't that what is there to replace the ten commandments and all the millions of statutes (that no-one seems to follow,let alone know about anyway)?

so if there is no more law, there is no more sin, right?

and if you have the spirit, you wouldn't WANT to continue in sin anyway, right?

so if you get a speeding ticket, it's more of a sin.

but who made the laws? other people with the power to do so.
like in the old days. but in the old days respect was given to the elders and the wiser ones. now it's the rich.

the same rich that ordered the king james version. did king james follow the bible? maybe not completely, but he certainly helped keep law and order in the world.

crowd control. and i could go on, but it's about praying, right?

more like preying.
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:22/04/2005 9:24 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@

***Do you think they are still praying today, altough the situation is solved by the Lord?***

I believe their spirit would still be praying yes. 

 
***And how do you pray while you are sleeping?***

Your Spirit prays for you. Does the Holy Spirit sleep?

 
***To pray without ceasing means to pray as much as you can***

No it's to pray without ceasing - that's what the bible says!

***but it's our decision how intensive we want to pray for something***

Well since it's our spirit that prays then I would say that it's His decision wouldnt you?

 ***Do we pray only some minutes to receive a healing, or do we pray without ceasing till we have received the healing.***

We've already been healed by the stripes of Jesus Christ.

*** If we pray in tongues, in the spirit, the Holy Spirit in us is praying, but we are able to stop and to start.***

But your Spirit is always making intercessions for you with groanings that CANNOT BE UTTERED. 

*** We decide to open the mouth or not.***

Exactly which is why the Spirit intercedes for us because we dont' always pray when we ought or when we need to...sometimes we dont' even know we need anything - the spirit does though she He prays constantly!

*** I can't pray in understanding, with words, or in Spirit, with tongues, when i am sleeping, because then i am sleeping.***

No you can't which is why you have the Holy Spirit that prays for you...it doesn't sleep.

 ***To pray without ceasing is to pray as much as you are able to do.***

If it meant to "to pray as much as you are able to do" then it would say "Pray as much as you are physically able"  But it doesn't.  It says "pray without ceasing" which can ONLY BE POSSIBLE in the spirt!

Prayer to me is - Living your life for the Lord, walking in the spirit, meditating on God, worship <-------- it's all prayer and you do not pray in tongues the whole time.  The Holy Spirit works in all and makes intercession for us.  Tongues to me - is a means in which I can pray if I (my flesh) needs comforting or edifying.  My spirt wouldn't need this but my flesh would...prayer in tongues is a tool to help us feel comforted.  It's not the only means in which I pray.

And you still haven't aswered two questions.  How do you sing in the spirit?  And how do you walk in the spirit?  Do you sing in tongues and walk around speaking in tongues?  When you find the answers to those questions then you might be close to answering the above questions. 

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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:25/04/2005 9:07 PMCopy HTML



And you still haven't aswered two questions. How do you sing in the spirit? And how do you walk in the spirit? Do you sing in tongues and walk around speaking in tongues? When you find the answers to those questions then you might be close to answering the above questions.



Of course i am able to sing in tongues. You not?
And to walk in the spirit has nothing to do with pray in the spirit. To walk in the spirit is to have a spiritual walk, a spiritual life till Jesus comes back. If you don't are spiritual, how would you talk about spiritual things. Read the bible as God wants and not as you want. It is His Word, and His Word is black and white, not grey...
Matthew 24, Luke 21
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Re:Jesus promoted private prayer?

Date Posted:27/04/2005 11:15 AMCopy HTML


So you sing in the tongues do you?  Do you sing in tongues at the meetings?  What tune do you use?

You have totally missed my point.  If one can walk in the spirit without walking around speaking in tongues all day then one can certainly pray in the spirit without praying in tongues.  Same concept - the Holy spirit works in both!  And just to get something straight here...Yes I do have the ability to speak in tongues. 

As for the word of God being black and white.  I think you should remember that the word of God is exactly that...the WORD OF GOD!!!!    It's neither black nor white...it just is!  It's HIS word...not yours and not mine.  He can reveal whatever he likes to you or me where he sees fit.  He does not need to be approved by you or the RC's or any church for that matter...God IS THE WORD!!!.

Jane
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