I left a note about the same thing... if yr still attending an organisation, exerting power and intimidating people and have no intention of leaving.....GET SOME BALLS!! Put yr name here, tell the others who you are.

              We have all been aware of how quiet the Forum has been lately and no doubt to the delight of Noddy Noel, Daddy Addy and others too, and it has been mostly due to some who pontificate their professional prowess with their biblical knowledge and theology and personal ego which has prevented many from posting.
              Now while these people are not ex-GRCr's , it also must be said that to some, they have helped some and they do get something benificial out of it. I must admit that I didn't because like most people on here, we are not into thoelogy and that is because we were once 'brain-washed ' with that type of verbology before and now, we are not the least bit interested to hear or read anymore of it.
              Although it has been quiet here with very few posts, please take note that it has not really been that way ! Just because not many have posted, they still have been surfing the  "GRC Forum" with a watchful eye, just look at how many ' hits ' (viewers) there have been but now that some time has elapsed, I feel it's time to invite all ex-GRC members to start posting again without and reprisal or interferance from
"other Revival churches ".
             I have had so many people contact me complaining about non- GRCr's posting here  - not all non GRCr's , but some in particular.  I am not advocating that non-GRCr's can't post but rather, I do invite them, but please remember to keep to the topic (so to speak) and you would be most welcome.
             There is some sentiment amongst the Forum for us to move to another site especially set aside for us. I see no need to do this for one simple reason  .....  Read what it says at the top of this page !  ......

     Category :        " Geelong  Revival  Centre  (GRC) "

            Like   ....  aluuurrrr  !  This site is our site - it is designated for us, so why change to suit others, or why should we run away from our place and position here.

So lets stake our place and stand firm and if .........

 Hi Ian

"Untethered Subjectivism" is a tautology. Subjectivism is, by definition, untethered.

I am not interested in theology, does that mean my thinking is loose? Or just not in line with your beliefs and therefore "wrong"

Cheers, Tommo

Hi Ian

Subjectivism is a philosophy or doctrine that knowledge is merely subjective and that there is no external or objective truth... it is therefore "UN-TETHERED" because it isn't TETHERED to an authoritative belief system.....

Christianity is TETHERED to the bible, Surely you would agree that "Tethered Christianity" is a tautology.

T

Reply to Seguidor 

But don’t knock the discussions on theology too much as I feel they are an integral part of the healing process outside of Revival and even for those considering leaving.

They are for some Seguidor, but for others just a reminder of how controlling and dismissive of the opinions of others people who think they have the truth can be.

If we reflect on the reason we first joined GRC etc., were it because we basically wanted to know and have favour with God and perhaps have a hope for the future or similar?

I joined the Wagga centre because I have loved god my whole life, but had been away from church life for a couple of years. I wanted to please god, that was my only motivation. What revival taught me however, is the same as what the rest of life has taught me, if you don't conform to what people think is the "way it is", is you dont plug into the borg mothership you are wrong and you will be removed, resistance is futile. I am so pleased that God is not like that. He gives us a choice to serve him or not.

I believe to an extent this was a type of fear in us and as a result we where lead into a false sense of trust and security by those that used that fear to gain the power and the control over our lives. I don’t have to go into any detail, as it has mostly been recorded in this forum for all to read.

I never expected people who came to me in the name of god to be liars and control freaks, but that is just the childlike way I view the things of god. I expected better, but what I have learned is that when it comes to issues of power and control, generally christians are no better than the average person, and in some cases a good deal worse. For me, Jesus was a gentle man who did not need to control others or shout them down (unless they were pharisees). The only people he was not impressed with seemed to be the religious leaders of the day, whose MO clearly has not changed from that day to this.

I have relatives that still attend GRC, and I often wonder, after everything that happened to other members of the family, which have now ‘escaped’ and happily getting on with their lives, is it because of the fear that was instilled in them by the teachings of Hollins and the like, (“you will go to hell if you leave”, “we are the only church”, etc) why they don’t make a move to leave?

It probably is fear, fear of the unknown, fear of change, and the unwillingness to lose friends. One of revival's greatest methods of control is the control of the person's social network, coupled with the belief that they are the one's with some kind of connection to god the underlings do't have. Relationship with god is PERSONAL, even though ther are those who would choose to believe otherwise. And why not? They saw it work in revival. Organisations don't like lone wolves of any kind, threatens their existence.

But the truth is, it is between us and God, it's no one else's business. When we are with him in our prayer closet, its only us and him, his heart and our heart. Some people don't have that kind of relationship with god, and that is their choice. There is just SO much to embrace in the heart of I AM, leaves me speechless before him. I have nothing to offer, my righeousness is as filthy rags in his sight, he consumes me.

Have we a choice to make?

Yep. we sure do. And it is CHOICE which has consequences, it is NOT and obligation.

Tracey

 OK, Subjectivism is a word describing a philosophy or doctrine.

Christianity is a philosophy/doctrine which is tethered to the person of J.C. ok fine... How do you know about J.C? Isnt the bible the authoritative source his life?

Semantics Ian!

T

I recently watched the documentary the RCI made some years back about the history of their organisation... yeah, I know... I could have been watching Family Guy or something more constructive, but there you go, I have no life... or maybe too many lives. I found the footage of Lloyd more chilling than Saw IV and I had to sleep with the lights on - heh.

Now there was a theology Cowboy who went shooting with guns blazing and didn't care where he shot them. His brand of theology has caused misery. It's HIS theology that's in question here. It's HIS empire of 'pastors' that ran with his separation doctrines. It's his theology that forced marriages and split up families. I'm meeting people who have been out of Revival for years but are so caught up in their old way of thinking that it's depressing.

He is but one of the many Many dangerous Cowboys that have used the bible to control and brainwash followers. There are puh-lenty of churches that promote what I believe to be wholly unhealthy lifestyles and beliefs... but this Revival organisation (church?) is the one that 'got' us and that's the one we're discussing. You'll find that Revivalism deposited a lot more crap in our skulls besides the tongues doctrine mindset.

I recently watched the documentary the RCI made some years back about the history of their organisation... yeah, I know... I could have been watching Family Guy or something more constructive, but there you go, I have no life... or maybe too many lives. I found the footage of Lloyd more chilling than Saw IV and I had to sleep with the lights on - heh.

Damn, I missed it. Funny, but not so funny when you really look at it. That one man could wreak so much havoc in the lives of those who just wanted to love God. It does chill me to the bone, and is the only kind of fear I have now, that I will be abused again by a similar system. I'm more scared of that that I am of dying.

Now there was a theology Cowboy who went shooting with guns blazing and didn't care where he shot them. His brand of theology has caused misery. It's HIS theology that's in question here. It's HIS empire of 'pastors' that ran with his separation doctrines. It's his theology that forced marriages and split up families. I'm meeting people who have been out of Revival for years but are so caught up in their old way of thinking that it's depressing.

Fair enough moth. I am very leery of any kind of attitude that smells even slightly of the same sense of control. You may have noticed that.  Those out of revival I know now have gone in different directions. Some stright into church and loving it, some who don't care either way,. some who just hate anything to do with god, and some who are still so traumatised after 10 years they still cannot even talk about it.

He is but one of the many Many dangerous Cowboys that have used the bible to control and brainwash followers. There are puh-lenty of churches that promote what I believe to be wholly unhealthy lifestyles and beliefs... but this Revival organisation (church?) is the one that 'got' us and that's the one we're discussing. You'll find that Revivalism deposited a lot more crap in our skulls besides the tongues doctrine mindset.

Of course it did. Luckily for me I didn't believe most of it and that is why I was constantly in trouble the whole nine years I was in. I'm a very independent thinker, but have only just realised fairly recently that most people are not. I guess I just want people to learn to think for themselves so they will not be led astray by those who don't really care for them. One of the reasons I don't go to church now is that I think there is a lot of unhealthy stuff going on in some of them too. Ten years in a pente was enough to put me off it for life. Even there one cannot have one's own mind but must mouth all the appropriate bullshit so one is acceptably spiritual. The same yes men, same inner core of suck ups, in the end I was so saddened and disappointed I walked away.

 Mothman you are so right, and then, the more dangerous ones saw Lloyd's group and teachings as being 'soft' and broke away to form the splinter group of the GRC.

So much damage, so many people affected by both groups.

Glad

(1)where is your list of Scripture passages that supports your views? And, (2) how is it that you refuse to comply with Scripture's ethical demands?

What views are these,. the ones where I believe there is a god and the bible is his inspired word? Geez Ian if you dont know how to find those by now, well all that learnin' hasn't helped much.

(2) Ethical demands? God makes ethical demands? and here was me thinking that ehtics, like most things were human constructs. Are we again discussing scripture's ethical demand that you are my scriptural master and I should sit under your superior knowledge and teaching?

Hi Sabrina the (once) Teenage witch?

*** i agree, everybody joined / attended for a reason initially. this desire or want/need doesnt change, perhaps your understanding of what you are looking for alters, or you see the truth in other measures. we all wanted something from the place. I also agree, discussion of any sort, good bad or indifferent helps healing. we all had the same interests once. S, the anon comment was directed at the cowards who still attend the church, not those who have left for reasons of experience? choice? force. i KNOW there are spies here. even a screen anme is a name and an identity, but i do understand and realise there are those too afraid to leave any kind of identifier. My apologies to anyone who may have been offended and believe me, it was only intended to outrage the sneaks.  
My name and ID is fully available to anyone who checks my profile. Larissa.

          This Forum has been so quiet till some-one gets critized !

          Well I  ' Vented ' my thoughts  and within a 12 hr period we had 33 Posts !!!!! and still you just don't get it - do you ?  
           I did say that some theology has helped some but to be Bombarded by it is tantamount to preaching. I am also told that I to have an ego and if this is true, then I am proud of it because I have a cause to, and that is to help those in need of support - unlike what we have just witnessed where 33 posts were just sucked into Ian's argueing , point by point.
          Ian has a great wealth of knowledge but just doesn't know how to use it to get his message across. One after another tell me that because he goes on and on add-nauseum so they don't bother to read his posts and niether do I.
         So I am a "moaner". Well Ian, I have a friend who used to post but because of YOU , he has lost heart in posting and is in deep depression and I do fear for his personal health and well being and he is Not the only one. He is FAR more important than your waisting space posts - point by point self-justification. Why don't you spend your effort to the cause and not YOUR ego ? 
         So in todays posts, what help or imput did you contribute? Why don't you stay in your Chat Room at the bottom of the page and talk to your hearts content -we won't bother you there. 

 
ps. what is "SIG" ....  don't bother , not interested.

 Motmot,

Gimme a break - if your friend is suffering with depression I am sorry but don't try and pin it on someone else. Get them some professional help!

To the ex-GRC'ers generally,

From an outsiders perspective you seem like a group who struggle to remain disspassionate and civil, perhaps this is a result of your involvement with Noel or perhaps you were drawn to his doctrine because of this character trait... The chicken or egg theory. Either way it would seem you have not left your Revivalist, I'm right and you're wrong attitude.

I am certainly no Ian apologist but bear in mind neither his words nor anyone else's can hurt you unless you find some element of truth within them.

 MOT MOT, re Ian staying in the chat box,,,, ha ha ha,now here is the rub,, quite a while ago, ian left the forum for a time, however at sometime came back and his first post back he stated that he would stay OUT of the chat room and just use the main part of the forum. it is plainly obviouse that he has not done this,and thus many as you have mentioned no longer post and or skim past his protracted opinions.

He will of course state that he was invited to the chat room however if he was a man of his word he would have declined and stayed in the main forum area.

I just wanted to state here, for the record, and quite unfortunately in violation of the newly appointed forum rules, that this statement from earth5 brands him as somewhat as a jerk, imo.  

Reply to Episkopeo

As RCIers we were systematically and effectively commanded to be in absolute obedience to their leader/s, to unskilled teachers and preaching.  Unskilled men intruding into peoples' lives and very soul.  Little wonder depression is rife, families divided, marriages broken down, those deemed needing discipline ostracised along with those who are considered backslidden.  Leave RCI and you leave the Lord, fear tactics.

As you have probably noticed on this forum, I'm not great at taking on the ideas of others just because they give me a good story. As much trouble as my constant questioning and refusal to believe bullshit caused me in revival, I am glad now I am such an intractable brat. I never believed they were the only christians. I pretty well never saw the oversight even live like decent human beings, much less the pillars of christianity they seemed to think they were. I constantly called them on their apalling behaviour, their social control and their complete lack of love or compassion for the people in the assembly. You want me to believe you are a christian now, live it. Walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I am SO tired of people who come to me in the name of christ who cannot even manage to treat those around them with basic respect, much less the deep love for each other that god places within us when our heart is open to him.

Chapter 1 of the widely read treatise of Pope Gregory 1st Cura Pastoralis (Pastoral Care) written around 590 has interesting things to say about unskilled shepherds:-

[That the unskilful venture not to approach an office of authority.  No one presumes to teach an art till he has first, with intent meditation, learnt it.  What rashness is it, then, for the unskilful to assume pastoral authority, since the government of souls is the art of arts........And yet how often do men who have no knowledge whatever of spiritual precepts fearlessly profess themselves physicians of the heart, though those who are ignorant of the effect of drugs blush to appear as physicians of the flesh] 

Yep. And I see it over and over again in just about every christian organisation I am involved with. It seems that the need for power, even in those who say they love god is rife. I just don't get it. Honestly, after the damage I have seen those in church authority do tothe lives of others I would never want to be in authority over anyone. The possible damage to people is just too great, and I certainly would not want to be judged by god for making another person lose their faith.

He uses a quote from the Prophet Isaiah  that the shepherds themselves have not known understanding.

[Yet this unskilfulness of the shepherds doubtless suits often the deserts of those who are subject the them because though it is their own fault that they have not the light of knowledge, yet it is in the dealing of strict judgement that through their ignorance those also who follow them should stumble.  Hence it is that, in the Gospel  the Truth in Person says, "If the blind lead the blind, both fall into the ditch."  Matt XV : 14]

No understanding, no love. I know I keep labouring the point, but it doesn't matter what we do for god, if there isn't genuine love in it, it's a waste of time.

But Alpha males are SO tasty.  They account for a good deal of this middle age spread, and my cats like the bones.

Reply to motmot               We have all been aware of how quiet the Forum has been lately and no doubt to the delight of Noddy Noel, Daddy Addy and others too, and it has been mostly due to some who pontificate their professional prowess with their biblical knowledge and theology and personal ego which has prevented many from posting.               Now while these people are not ex-GRCr's , it also must be said that to some, they have helped some and they do get something benificial out of it. I must admit that I didn't because like most people on here, we are not into thoelogy and that is because we were once 'brain-washed ' with that type of verbology before and now, we are not the least bit interested to hear or read anymore of it.               Although it has been quiet here with very few posts, please take note that it has not really been that way ! Just because not many have posted, they still have been surfing the  "GRC Forum" with a watchful eye, just look at how many ' hits ' (viewers) there have been but now that some time has elapsed, I feel it's time to invite all ex-GRC members to start posting again without and reprisal or interferance from "other Revival churches ".              I have had so many people contact me complaining about non- GRCr's posting here  - not all non GRCr's , but some in particular.  I am not advocating that non-GRCr's can't post but rather, I do invite them, but please remember to keep to the topic (so to speak) and you would be most welcome.              There is some sentiment amongst the Forum for us to move to another site especially set aside for us. I see no need to do this for one simple reason  .....  Read what it says at the top of this page !  ......      Category :        " Geelong  Revival  Centre  (GRC) "             Like   ....  aluuurrrr  !  This site is our site - it is designated for us, so why change to suit others, or why should we run away from our place and position here. So lets stake our place and stand firm and if .........

I agree with all you have said Tom.