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prezy
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Date Posted:12/07/2009 8:15 AMCopy HTML


I was just thinking of the sneaky mentality of the penty groups grc.rci etc how they have their spies watching this site all the time. I find it astounding that people that could do that think they are right with God. Sad thing is this is only  the tip of the iceburg for how low some of these creatures will stoop.
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 2:22 AMCopy HTML

I left a note about the same thing... if yr still attending an organisation, exerting power and intimidating people and have no intention of leaving.....GET SOME BALLS!! Put yr name here, tell the others who you are.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 12:13 PMCopy HTML

              We have all been aware of how quiet the Forum has been lately and no doubt to the delight of Noddy Noel, Daddy Addy and others too, and it has been mostly due to some who pontificate their professional prowess with their biblical knowledge and theology and personal ego which has prevented many from posting.
              Now while these people are not ex-GRCr's , it also must be said that to some, they have helped some and they do get something benificial out of it. I must admit that I didn't because like most people on here, we are not into thoelogy and that is because we were once 'brain-washed ' with that type of verbology before and now, we are not the least bit interested to hear or read anymore of it.
              Although it has been quiet here with very few posts, please take note that it has not really been that way ! Just because not many have posted, they still have been surfing the  "GRC Forum" with a watchful eye, just look at how many ' hits ' (viewers) there have been but now that some time has elapsed, I feel it's time to invite all ex-GRC members to start posting again without and reprisal or interferance from
"other Revival churches ".
             I have had so many people contact me complaining about non- GRCr's posting here  - not all non GRCr's , but some in particular.  I am not advocating that non-GRCr's can't post but rather, I do invite them, but please remember to keep to the topic (so to speak) and you would be most welcome.
             There is some sentiment amongst the Forum for us to move to another site especially set aside for us. I see no need to do this for one simple reason  .....  Read what it says at the top of this page !  ......

     Category :        " Geelong  Revival  Centre  (GRC) "

            Like   ....  aluuurrrr  !  This site is our site - it is designated for us, so why change to suit others, or why should we run away from our place and position here.

So lets stake our place and stand firm and if .........
" Those are my principles and if you don"t like them, I do have others" Come-On ! always tell the truth motmot
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 10:43 PMCopy HTML

Mot,

'Yes', but the effects to the spirituality of those who "... aren't really interested in theology" is more than readily apparent. You can see it in the remarkably loose thinking, the untethered subjectivism, and the "arrogance in ignorance" of the people involved. I might also point out that your own ego appears to be healthy enough, if your standard pontificating is any indication

In closing, a little advice: if you're worried about the lack of input in your SIG, then stop moaning and do so something about it. Easy peasy.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 11:27 PMCopy HTML

 Hi Ian

"Untethered Subjectivism" is a tautology. Subjectivism is, by definition, untethered.

I am not interested in theology, does that mean my thinking is loose? Or just not in line with your beliefs and therefore "wrong"

Cheers, Tommo

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 11:44 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Thommo.

First, "untethered subjectivism" isn't a tautology. Subjectivism necessarily involves a tethering to one's own internal perspective of what is authoritative. Second, whether or not your comment: I am not interested in theology, does that mean my thinking is loose? Or just not in line with your beliefs and therefore "wrong" is valid, is dependent upon the specifics. The context underpinning Mot's assertion related to theological discussions. My response was similarly "tethered". You might care to reflect that the statement about "loose thinking" had to do with those who refused to humour theology, but who wished to argue the toss with respect to theological conclusions.

Finally, whether or not your own thinking is "loose" would invariably be determined (to a greater or lesser degree)  if you were to engage in theological/philosophical discussions, here. However, I will note at this point, that your assertion with respect to "untethered subjectivism" supposedly being a "tautology" wasn't, at first blush, an example of particularly "tight" thinking

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:14/07/2009 11:57 PMCopy HTML

Hi Ian

Subjectivism is a philosophy or doctrine that knowledge is merely subjective and that there is no external or objective truth... it is therefore "UN-TETHERED" because it isn't TETHERED to an authoritative belief system.....

Christianity is TETHERED to the bible, Surely you would agree that "Tethered Christianity" is a tautology.

T
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:06 AMCopy HTML

Good morning again, Thommo.

Subjectivism is a philosophy or doctrine that knowledge is merely subjective and that there is no external or objective truth... it is therefore "UN-TETHERED" because it isn't TETHERED to an authoritative belief system.....

"Subjectivism" is a word, and not a "philosophy or a doctrine" (unless you wish to discuss Wittgenstein, for example. Hence, "context is still king"). To make a "subjective assessment" on a given issue still requires a "tethering" to an internal source of authority, i.e. one's personal judgment.

Christianity is TETHERED to the bible, Surely you would agree that "Tethered Christianity" is a tautology.

Christianity isn't tethered to the Bible, but to the person of Jesus Christ. Do you want to revisit the "loose thinking" bit again 

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Seguidor 

But don’t knock the discussions on theology too much as I feel they are an integral part of the healing process outside of Revival and even for those considering leaving.


They are for some Seguidor, but for others just a reminder of how controlling and dismissive of the opinions of others people who think they have the truth can be.

If we reflect on the reason we first joined GRC etc., were it because we basically wanted to know and have favour with God and perhaps have a hope for the future or similar?


I joined the Wagga centre because I have loved god my whole life, but had been away from church life for a couple of years. I wanted to please god, that was my only motivation. What revival taught me however, is the same as what the rest of life has taught me, if you don't conform to what people think is the "way it is", is you dont plug into the borg mothership you are wrong and you will be removed, resistance is futile. I am so pleased that God is not like that. He gives us a choice to serve him or not.

I believe to an extent this was a type of fear in us and as a result we where lead into a false sense of trust and security by those that used that fear to gain the power and the control over our lives. I don’t have to go into any detail, as it has mostly been recorded in this forum for all to read.

I never expected people who came to me in the name of god to be liars and control freaks, but that is just the childlike way I view the things of god. I expected better, but what I have learned is that when it comes to issues of power and control, generally christians are no better than the average person, and in some cases a good deal worse. For me, Jesus was a gentle man who did not need to control others or shout them down (unless they were pharisees). The only people he was not impressed with seemed to be the religious leaders of the day, whose MO clearly has not changed from that day to this.

I have relatives that still attend GRC, and I often wonder, after everything that happened to other members of the family, which have now ‘escaped’ and happily getting on with their lives, is it because of the fear that was instilled in them by the teachings of Hollins and the like, (“you will go to hell if you leave”, “we are the only church”, etc) why they don’t make a move to leave?

It probably is fear, fear of the unknown, fear of change, and the unwillingness to lose friends. One of revival's greatest methods of control is the control of the person's social network, coupled with the belief that they are the one's with some kind of connection to god the underlings do't have. Relationship with god is PERSONAL, even though ther are those who would choose to believe otherwise. And why not? They saw it work in revival. Organisations don't like lone wolves of any kind, threatens their existence.

But the truth is, it is between us and God, it's no one else's business. When we are with him in our prayer closet, its only us and him, his heart and our heart. Some people don't have that kind of relationship with god, and that is their choice. There is just SO much to embrace in the heart of I AM, leaves me speechless before him. I have nothing to offer, my righeousness is as filthy rags in his sight, he consumes me.

Have we a choice to make?

Yep. we sure do. And it is CHOICE which has consequences, it is NOT and obligation.

Tracey

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:17 AMCopy HTML

 OK, Subjectivism is a word describing a philosophy or doctrine.

Christianity is a philosophy/doctrine which is tethered to the person of J.C. ok fine... How do you know about J.C? Isnt the bible the authoritative source his life?

Semantics Ian!

T


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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:22 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

He [God] gives us a choice to serve him or not.

Never a truer word spoken. But if one "chooses" to serve God, then the service itself remains on God's terms, and not ours. I note that you used the word "serve" in relation to God. One of the primary meanings of this word is, "to be a servant to". Servants don't dictate to their masters how things are or should be.

And it is CHOICE which has consequences, it is NOT and obligation.

Do you think? I can "choose" to breathe or not to breathe, in spite being "obliged" to in order to sustain life. So it is with obedience to God.

Ian


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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:28 AMCopy HTML

Thommo,

OK, Subjectivism is a word describing a philosophy or doctrine.

Not necessarily. Please re-read my previous response to understand where I'm coming from (the issue remains, as always, one of context).

Christianity is a philosophy/doctrine which is tethered to the person of J.C. ok fine... How do you know about J.C? Isnt the bible the authoritative source his life?

Of course. But we weren't discussing "authoritative sources of his life", were we?

Semantics Ian!

Hardly, Thommo. Consider this an example of "tight" rather than "loose" thinking.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:43 AMCopy HTML



Never a truer word spoken. But if one "chooses" to serve God, then the service itself remains on God's terms, and not ours. I note that you used the word "serve" in relation to God. One of the primary meanings of this word is, "to be a servant to". Servants don't dictate to their masters how things are or should be.

No, they don't, neither should they. God is my master, not men who want to throw their weight around. Never again will I be in bondage to those who want to believe they have the rule over me, to twist scripture to support their own needs for power and control over others THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT. Fuck me over once, its your fault, twice it's mine. NEVER AGAIN. NEVER.

The difference I guess between a relationship with god based on the heart, and one based on the head. Head can breed obligation based on fear, heart tends to breed choice based on love.

Tracey.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:48 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

Or it might be the difference between a relationship that conforms to God's stated requirements, versus the sort of "relationship" which altogether disregards the obligations incumbent upon the lesser to the greater? Our relationships with God aren't those of equals, you know (or perhaps, you didn't?)

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:01 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

Or it might be the difference between a relationship that conforms to God's stated requirements, versus the sort of "relationship" which altogether disregards the obligations incumbent upon the lesser to the greater?

Or perhaps the heart relationship encompasses the stated requirements which are NOT disregarded but the basis of the relationship. A revelation of the love of god is what happens as the relationship deepens and develops.

Our relationships with God aren't those of equals.

How sad for you. There is another dimension outside human reasoning where there are no levels, but the love of god reigns supreme, and is the basic motivation for everything, and the reason Jesus took our sin upon him in the first place. He did it out of love, as a CHOICE, he could have backed away. Just because humans can only understand the concrete world where status and power is everything, does not mean that is the way things are in the kingdom of heaven. Jesus tried to show us a better way, and for his trouble we killed him, which is what humans always do when there is something that scares them and is outside what they are used to.

The revival centres taught people that god is some kind of lightening bolt bearing pig in the sky who cannot wait to punish us for our poor choices, that we have to be obedient to him to the letter of the law and if we are not look out. They missed the point that god is love, and that love is what god is trying to teach us. As long as we hang onto our pathetic pyramid like power structures where ego reigns supreme, he cannot do that. We are all equal in his sight.

There is a beautiful song based on Corinthians 13 where the words are Jesus, reduce me to love. To be reduced to love we have to let go of our ego, our pride in our own accomplishments, our need for status, power and control and realise we are nothing without him, to be completely broken before him. Until we reach that place of brokeness, he cannot teach us anything.

Tracey
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:04 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

Oh? So you do believe that your relationship with God is one of equals? I wonder, could you please point me to a Scripture that establishes such a claim? Furthermore, any verses that you could share which demonstrates that the obligation for submission and mutual accountability no longer applies within the created order would be warmly welcomed (I ask given that I can think of scores that indicates the contrary is yet the case).

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:20 AMCopy HTML

Oh? So you do believe that your relationship with God is one of equals? I wonder, could you please point me to a Scripture that establishes such a claim? Furthermore, any verses that you could share which demonstrates that the obligation for submission and mutual accountability no longer applies within the created order would be warmly welcomed (I ask given that I can think of scores that indicates the contrary is yet the case).

1. I don't believe your mind is capable of grasping any state in which there is no hierarchy.

2. It is God's universe, not mine, he created me not the other way around. I did not say I was God's equal. What I said is that the kingdom of god (which by the way jesus said was WITHIN) is not a place where those things apply.

3. I have already told you more than once that I refuse to play scripture smackdown with you. I have seen the pathetic carry on between you and others who will play your game. Its embarrassing and pathetic for grown people to be throwing around the word of god to gain brownie points for who understands it best based on how much study one has or has not done. Anyone who refuses to be drawn into said embarrassment and has the temerity to actually have a love relationship with god has only "cowboy theology". So much for the millions of people who have known and loved god, well before either of us were born. People who have had the love of god revealed to them spiritually as well as from the scripture. I guess they have all been having a collective delusion since the death of christ, and you ian have come to set us all straight.

4. Ian nothing I say will make any difference. You have your little empire here and you are happy with that. I would counsel you though not to rip people off from a deeper relationship with god. I feel sad for you that spiritual revelation is not a part of your christianity, but as I have said before what goes on between you and your creator is your business.


Tracey
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:33 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

You can change my opinion in a heartbeat! All that you need to do, the only thing that you need to do, is demonstrate support for your beliefs from Scripture. If you can't do this, then I can only assume that what you're offering is little more than completely unsubstantiated and subjective personal opinion. And such places you in exactly the same category as Revivalists with me.

I know that you don't think very highly of the apostle Paul, but he wrote that "all Scripture is inspired, and is useful for ... correction ... so that the man of God can be fully equipped for every good work", or words to that effect. Clearly you don't believe this bit of the Bible applies to you.

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:44 AMCopy HTML

You can change my opinion in a heartbeat! All that you need to do, the only thing that you need to do, is demonstrate support for your beliefs from Scripture. If you can't do this, then I can only assume that what you're offering is little more than completely unsubstantiated and subjective personal opinion. And such places you in exactly the same category as Revivalists with me.

Unsubstantiated and subjective personal opinion?

Given that the existence of god cannot be proven and is in fact a belief, how is that belief itself not unsubstantiated and subjective opinion?

Same applies to the scriptures. How can you be SURE they are inspired by God Ian, because they tell you so? Or is it something else, something in your heart and mind you can't quite put your finger on that allows you to KNOW they are? God forbid that thing might be a bit of spiritual revelation.

Sadly, your belief that you know the scriptures and their correct interpretation better than anyone places you in my revival basket.


Tracey
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:46 AMCopy HTML

Anyone who refuses to be drawn into said embarrassment and has the temerity to actually have a love relationship with god has only "cowboy theology". So much for the millions of people who have known and loved god, well before either of us were born. People who have had the love of god revealed to them spiritually as well as from the scripture. I guess they have all been having a collective delusion since the death of christ, and you ian have come to set us all straight.

I recently watched the documentary the RCI made some years back about the history of their organisation... yeah, I know... I could have been watching Family Guy or something more constructive, but there you go, I have no life... or maybe too many lives. I found the footage of Lloyd more chilling than Saw IV and I had to sleep with the lights on - heh.

Now there was a theology Cowboy who went shooting with guns blazing and didn't care where he shot them. His brand of theology has caused misery. It's HIS theology that's in question here. It's HIS empire of 'pastors' that ran with his separation doctrines. It's his theology that forced marriages and split up families. I'm meeting people who have been out of Revival for years but are so caught up in their old way of thinking that it's depressing.

He is but one of the many Many dangerous Cowboys that have used the bible to control and brainwash followers. There are puh-lenty of churches that promote what I believe to be wholly unhealthy lifestyles and beliefs... but this Revival organisation (church?) is the one that 'got' us and that's the one we're discussing. You'll find that Revivalism deposited a lot more crap in our skulls besides the tongues doctrine mindset.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 2:00 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

Unsubstantiated and subjective personal opinion?

'Yep'. It seems that you can't back up what you claim from any objective source that's recognised as being authoritative by Christians. In other words, "unsubstantiated and subjective personal opinion".

Given that the existence of god cannot be proven and is in fact a belief, how is that belief itself not unsubstantiated and subjective opinion?

I can't speak for the general concept of "god", but the Christian God more specifically is testified of in a corpus of eyewitness primary sources that we commonly refer to as the Bible. The Bible not only testifies to this God, but it also claims to represent his will, for us.

Same applies to the scriptures. How can you be SURE they are inspired by God Ian, because they tell you so? Or is it something else, something in your heart and mind you can't quite put your finger on that allows you to KNOW they are? God forbid that thing might be a bit of spiritual revelation.

I can be sure that Scripture is inspired by God for two reasons: (1) external verification through study and analysis; and (2) internal verification from God's Spirit to my spirit. The Bible tells me that it was written as the Holy Spirit overshadowed the human authors who did the actual writing. The Bible also tells me that it is the Holy Spirit who moves upon my spirit, wooing me to accept Christ and to live according to his will. Given that the same Spirit is involved, I find it very difficult to accept the proposition that he would compel me towards beliefs or actions that run contrary to what he caused to be recorded in Scripture! In other words, a "personal "or "spiritual" "special revelation" won't go against God's inscripturated "special revelation".

Sadly, your belief that you know the scriptures and their correct interpretation better than anyone places you in my revival basket.

We haven't even gotten to the stage of "interpretation" just yet! I've been asking you to do something far simpler, and that's to do naught else but list those biblical passages that you believe support your views. So why won't you?

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 2:07 AMCopy HTML

I recently watched the documentary the RCI made some years back about the history of their organisation... yeah, I know... I could have been watching Family Guy or something more constructive, but there you go, I have no life... or maybe too many lives. I found the footage of Lloyd more chilling than Saw IV and I had to sleep with the lights on - heh.

Damn, I missed it. Funny, but not so funny when you really look at it. That one man could wreak so much havoc in the lives of those who just wanted to love God. It does chill me to the bone, and is the only kind of fear I have now, that I will be abused again by a similar system. I'm more scared of that that I am of dying.

Now there was a theology Cowboy who went shooting with guns blazing and didn't care where he shot them. His brand of theology has caused misery. It's HIS theology that's in question here. It's HIS empire of 'pastors' that ran with his separation doctrines. It's his theology that forced marriages and split up families. I'm meeting people who have been out of Revival for years but are so caught up in their old way of thinking that it's depressing.

Fair enough moth. I am very leery of any kind of attitude that smells even slightly of the same sense of control. You may have noticed that.  Those out of revival I know now have gone in different directions. Some stright into church and loving it, some who don't care either way,. some who just hate anything to do with god, and some who are still so traumatised after 10 years they still cannot even talk about it.

He is but one of the many Many dangerous Cowboys that have used the bible to control and brainwash followers. There are puh-lenty of churches that promote what I believe to be wholly unhealthy lifestyles and beliefs... but this Revival organisation (church?) is the one that 'got' us and that's the one we're discussing. You'll find that Revivalism deposited a lot more crap in our skulls besides the tongues doctrine mindset.

Of course it did. Luckily for me I didn't believe most of it and that is why I was constantly in trouble the whole nine years I was in. I'm a very independent thinker, but have only just realised fairly recently that most people are not. I guess I just want people to learn to think for themselves so they will not be led astray by those who don't really care for them. One of the reasons I don't go to church now is that I think there is a lot of unhealthy stuff going on in some of them too. Ten years in a pente was enough to put me off it for life. Even there one cannot have one's own mind but must mouth all the appropriate bullshit so one is acceptably spiritual. The same yes men, same inner core of suck ups, in the end I was so saddened and disappointed I walked away.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 2:16 AMCopy HTML

 Mothman you are so right, and then, the more dangerous ones saw Lloyd's group and teachings as being 'soft' and broke away to form the splinter group of the GRC.

So much damage, so many people affected by both groups.

Glad
"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 2:22 AMCopy HTML

I can be sure that Scripture is inspired by God for two reasons: (1) external verification through study and analysis;

Proves nothing. More people in the world believe its crap than those who don't. Just because those to whom it is of interest organise degrees in it to prove its validity, doesn't make it verified Ian. Think evolution.

 and (2) internal verification from God's Spirit to my spirit.

Yay, finally, Ian has a connection with god that is not dependent on the written word. Go you. I knew there was more in there than you were letting on.

The Bible tells me that it was written as the Holy Spirit overshadowed the human authors who did the actual writing. The Bible also tells me that it is the Holy Spirit who moves upon my spirit, wooing me to accept Christ and to live according to his will. Given that the same Spirit is involved, I find it very difficult to accept the proposition that he would compel me towards beliefs or actions that run contrary to what he caused to be recorded in the Bible to begin with!

I see nothing to disagree with there. My personal belief is that there is a god, he did inspire the bible and that his spirit does reveal the written word to me.

However, my belief system is a construct of my own mind. Any relationship I feel i have with god could be some kind of mental abberation. I choose to believe it is not, but am fully cognisant of the fact it may be, and that others think it may be. In any case, it is still subjective.


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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 2:32 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

I can be sure that Scripture is inspired by God for two reasons: (1) external verification through study and analysis;

Proves nothing. More people in the world believe its crap than those who don't. Just because those to whom it is of interest organise degrees in it to prove its validity, doesn't make it verified Ian. Think evolution.

I'm going to go out on a limb and point out the blindingly obvious: you asked me how I could be sure Scripture was inspired. You didn't ask me to provide a defence of the same to Professor Hawking (this is a perfect example of the sort of "loose" thinking that I was discussing with Thommo this morning).

and (2) internal verification from God's Spirit to my spirit.

Yay, finally, Ian has a connection with god that is not dependent on the written word. Go you. I knew there was more in there than you were letting on.

I'd suggest that you spend a little time working your way through previous posts of mine on this site. There's nothing whatsoever "new" in the above admission.

The Bible tells me that it was written as the Holy Spirit overshadowed the human authors who did the actual writing. The Bible also tells me that it is the Holy Spirit who moves upon my spirit, wooing me to accept Christ and to live according to his will. Given that the same Spirit is involved, I find it very difficult to accept the proposition that he would compel me towards beliefs or actions that run contrary to what he caused to be recorded in the Bible to begin with!

I see nothing to disagree with there. My personal belief is that there is a god, he did inspire the bible and that his spirit does reveal the written word to me. However, my belief system is a construct of my own mind. Any relationship I feel i have with god could be some kind of mental abberation. I choose to believe it is not, but am fully cognisant of the fact it may be, and that others think it may be. In any case, it is still subjective.

These admissions of yours being the case, (1) where is your list of Scripture passages that supports your views? And, (2) how is it that you refuse to comply with Scripture's ethical demands?

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 4:03 AMCopy HTML

(1)where is your list of Scripture passages that supports your views? And, (2) how is it that you refuse to comply with Scripture's ethical demands?

What views are these,. the ones where I believe there is a god and the bible is his inspired word? Geez Ian if you dont know how to find those by now, well all that learnin' hasn't helped much.

(2) Ethical demands? God makes ethical demands? and here was me thinking that ehtics, like most things were human constructs. Are we again discussing scripture's ethical demand that you are my scriptural master and I should sit under your superior knowledge and teaching?
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 5:34 AMCopy HTML

Galen,

*Ahem*. Now where was I again?

The biblical passages that I was after were those that you apparently believe indicates that you don't have to obey God's requirements in order to be his follower/servant; and that you think exempt you from the joint requirements of submission and mutual accountability to and within the Body of Christ.

And as for the fact of biblical ethics, well you might care to revisit the Decalogue, the Sermon on the Mount, and a swag of the apostle Paul's writings.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 5:40 AMCopy HTML

Hiya, Sabs.

When you're finished, perhaps you would be so kind as to point out for me where you believe I was wrong in what I've been maintaining to be the case from Scripture, thus far.

Ta muchly.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 6:25 AMCopy HTML

I would like to know why Sabs, you are name calling Ian a "Pharisee" ??..
From a Biblical view, do you know what a Pharisee is ?? and why and what reasons Jesus addressed the Pharisees and can you explain the context of the various addresses ??...

Lets face it, Paul the apostle was a Pharisee and yet Jesus singled this particular Pharisee out and without this particular Pharisee, we would not have all those richly blessed of by God letters and correspondence. Further when you go into the Greek text of Paul's writings there is a plethora of reference to the Septuagint which you would be aware of was THE BIBLE of the early Christian Church. And all due to Paul's sound theology mostly derived from his Pharisee background.

But understand this Sabrina ( and I most welcome Ian's correction on this point ).. Not once did Jesus ever rubbish or put down or condemn any Pharisee in particular but Jesus did address the Pharisee position on a corporate basis and if anything, where there was a problem with the Pharisees, Jesus addressed with a SOLUTION   to their problem.. For an example look at the ENTIRE narrative of the woman caught in adultery in John 8 - read the whole chapter in context and you will find that Jesus was treating both the woman and the Pharisees without any partiality and the solution was that Jesus was showing both the adultress woman and the Pharisees their equal NEED FOR HIM..

blessings

Metanoia
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 6:48 AMCopy HTML


The biblical passages that I was after were those that you apparently believe indicates that you don't have to obey God's requirements in order to be his follower/servant; and that you think exempt you from the joint requirements of submission and mutual accountability to and within the Body of Christ.

Apparently being the operative word young Ian. I am quite happy to obey God's commandments. What I am not happy to do is place a sacred part of my already damaged heart in the hands of people I do not know and do not trust. Might be dumb but I ain't stupid. EVERYTHING about the way you have addressed and dealt with me on this site is proof of just the same. You don't give a flying **** about me Ian. You only care that I have a "correct" interpretation of scripture, and that I am prepared to be corrected.

And as for the fact of biblical ethics, well you might care to revisit the Decalogue, the Sermon on the Mount, and a swag of the apostle Paul's writings.

Call em what you like, ethics, Vegemite, whatever, they are the heart of god to me. Now apart from placing myself in the hands of the enemy, what is it I'm not doing again?

Tracey
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 9:10 AMCopy HTML

Hi Sabrina the (once) Teenage witch?

Ian is happy to be chums with anyone as long as they flatter him. For example someone can deny the existance of God and Hell but as long as they tell Ian he's a terrific theologian he laps it up. 

Oh goody! Is this a reference to me? I love it when people seem to use me as some sort of leverage to put Ian down. Ian's a jerk by some sort of online association with little old me? Ha. No, I don't deny the existance of God. Yes, I think your version of hell is probably as silly as most's. And yes, I'm amazed you still hold your hat on Revival doctrine. I mean, you literally lap up the doctrine Lloyd and Noel sold to you. Yes, I think Ian is a hoot and goes crunch to boot. No, I don't really like you, but then you probably don't hold yourself in real life as nastily as you do here online.

Pretty dangerous condition to be in - being partial with the way abuse is dished out. Blind leader of the blind. He's just the same as the worst of the GRC pastors (arrogant, proud, rude and dismissive) Boasting in his achievements. 

Jealousy? Maybe you'll have achievements you can be proud of one day. Fingers crossed!

The Pharisee Ian prayed thus with himself... I thank you God I'm not like these ignorant revivalists. I'VE been to theological College (at great expense I might add) OH GOD how grateful I AM that I am intelligent and that I speak biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek... not like these Ignorant people who believe the Gift of the Holy Spirit enables them to speak in tongues ... I can talk to you in the Biblical languages and tell You how intelligent I AM and I know you hear me always and that you never hear anyone else unless they believe me. Oh and they can't spell either so it's so not worth the key strokes to answer any question civilly.  blessings Ian

Ouch... sarcasm much? This thread is a fun one. I'd keep out of your GRC room here Motty, but she went to the mirror and said Bloody Mary.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 10:14 AMCopy HTML

Sour grapes, Sabs?

Seriously, is this the best that you can do? Well ... actually I suppose it is the best that you're capable of. After all, you never were much good at holding up your end of a theological discussion, never mind trying to defend your heretical Revivalist beliefs smiley9

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 12:39 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Seguidor (14/07/2009 08:03:03)

 

Motmot,

 

I understand where you are coming from and yes, I was thinking the same about Hollins etc being let off, so to speak, and others need to speak up more.

But don’t knock the discussions on theology too much as I feel they are an integral part of the healing process outside of Revival and even for those considering leaving.

If we reflect on the reason we first joined GRC etc., were it because we basically wanted to know and have favour with God and perhaps have a hope for the future or similar?

I guess there are many different reasons and situations, but basically, it was about believing God. But what happened?

I believe to an extent this was a type of fear in us and as a result we where lead into a false sense of trust and security by those that used that fear to gain the power and the control over our lives. I don’t have to go into any detail, as it has mostly been recorded in this forum for all to read.

I have relatives that still attend GRC, and I often wonder, after everything that happened to other members of the family, which have now ‘escaped’ and happily getting on with their lives, is it because of the fear that was instilled in them by the teachings of Hollins and the like, (“you will go to hell if you leave”, “we are the only church”, etc) why they don’t make a move to leave? It may be the case, perhaps for a lot of other folk.

Well, know that Hollins preaches another Gospel than what Jesus said, and you won’t go to hell if you’re out, can only rid you of that fear, and you can really get to know God, rather than cut yourself off from Him because of your experience in Revival, I believe is the best medicine. Have we a choice to make?

 

Ralph

PS Iadeedaa, Fww, I haven't hid my name.

 

*** i agree, everybody joined / attended for a reason initially. this desire or want/need doesnt change, perhaps your understanding of what you are looking for alters, or you see the truth in other measures. we all wanted something from the place. I also agree, discussion of any sort, good bad or indifferent helps healing. we all had the same interests once. S, the anon comment was directed at the cowards who still attend the church, not those who have left for reasons of experience? choice? force. i KNOW there are spies here. even a screen anme is a name and an identity, but i do understand and realise there are those too afraid to leave any kind of identifier. My apologies to anyone who may have been offended and believe me, it was only intended to outrage the sneaks.  
My name and ID is fully available to anyone who checks my profile. Larissa.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:08 PMCopy HTML

The term is, I believe, "lunch box", Groagan. In any case it seems that at least part of your previous comment is fitting, albeit not necessarily with respect to me. You do know what a  "groagan" is, don't you? smiley17

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:15 PMCopy HTML

          This Forum has been so quiet till some-one gets critized !

          Well I  ' Vented ' my thoughts  and within a 12 hr period we had 33 Posts !!!!! and still you just don't get it - do you ?  
           I did say that some theology has helped some but to be Bombarded by it is tantamount to preaching. I am also told that I to have an ego and if this is true, then I am proud of it because I have a cause to, and that is to help those in need of support - unlike what we have just witnessed where 33 posts were just sucked into Ian's argueing , point by point.
          Ian has a great wealth of knowledge but just doesn't know how to use it to get his message across. One after another tell me that because he goes on and on add-nauseum so they don't bother to read his posts and niether do I.
         So I am a "moaner". Well Ian, I have a friend who used to post but because of YOU , he has lost heart in posting and is in deep depression and I do fear for his personal health and well being and he is Not the only one. He is FAR more important than your waisting space posts - point by point self-justification. Why don't you spend your effort to the cause and not YOUR ego ? 
         So in todays posts, what help or imput did you contribute? Why don't you stay in your Chat Room at the bottom of the page and talk to your hearts content -we won't bother you there. 

 
ps. what is "SIG" ....  don't bother , not interested.
" Those are my principles and if you don"t like them, I do have others" Come-On ! always tell the truth motmot
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 1:25 PMCopy HTML

Mot,

SIG = "Special Interest Group. As for the rest of your diatribe, well, this is a discussion forum, and I'm one who chooses to discuss. If you and your "many" nameless, faceless friends choose not to, well, so be it. But I'd think that 33 posts sort of indicates something of a "discussion" taking place to me, and let's face it, that's 33 more posts than has been happening in this little corner of the forum in quite a while. Obviously, I'd rather that the discussions were more on the constructive side, and less in the way of ad hom attacks against my person (and have suggested as much quite a few times over the past three weeks), but so long as the Galiens of this world choose to continue with their vindictiveness, then I will continue to amuse myself by responding.

Next, you seem convinced that I'm the sole cause of the absence of meaningful communication between GRC-ers on this forum. Well didn't the Moderator establish a very special "GRC Ian-free zone" (the so-called "Coffee Shop") well over a year ago, and then specifically to accommodate your GRC-themed discussions? I gave him/her an undertaking not to involve myself there, consequently I don't even visit that little sub-forum much. But one thing seems pretty clear, apparently neither do very many other people. Perhaps it's simply the case that the GRC crowd simply don't have very much to share, currently.

As for your friend, it would be better that he seeks out a trained and competent counsellor if he's in the state that you've described. Forae such as these are no substitute for decent mental health care, and neither (I'm guessing) are you.

In summary will it continue to be the case, here, where I dispense theology, Galien dispenses venom, you dispense complaints, and Sabrina dispenses the comedy relief? Or will the very few nay-sayers who seem personally fixated with me decide to dismount their moral high horses so this forum can return to discussing issues of greater relevance and merit?

I guess we shall have to wait and see.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:15/07/2009 11:43 PMCopy HTML

 Motmot,

Gimme a break - if your friend is suffering with depression I am sorry but don't try and pin it on someone else. Get them some professional help!

To the ex-GRC'ers generally,

From an outsiders perspective you seem like a group who struggle to remain disspassionate and civil, perhaps this is a result of your involvement with Noel or perhaps you were drawn to his doctrine because of this character trait... The chicken or egg theory. Either way it would seem you have not left your Revivalist, I'm right and you're wrong attitude.

I am certainly no Ian apologist but bear in mind neither his words nor anyone else's can hurt you unless you find some element of truth within them.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 12:01 AMCopy HTML

REPLY TO IAN

but so long as the Galiens of this world choose to continue with their vindictiveness, then I will continue to amuse myself by responding.

This has never been about vindictiveness. Ian, you don't LISTEN, all you seem capable of doing is TALKING. This is about several things.

1. Your lack of compassion for those who have been seriously damaged by the Revivals.

2. Your lack of interest in addressing others with any form of respect.

3. Your seeming delight in making other people look small. It hurts, and it is ungodly. Not everyone here has a heart as hard as yours Ian. If your heart is not hard, then stop acting like it is. You subscribe to one weird brand of christianity there mate where it is okay to treat people with scorn and derision. Got a scripture reference on that?


In summary will it continue to be the case, here, where I dispense theology, Galien dispenses venom, you dispense complaints, and Sabrina dispenses the comedy relief? Or will the very few nay-sayers who seem personally fixated with me decide to dismount their moral high horses so this forum can return to discussing issues of greater relevance and merit?

Like I have said before, if you think that is venom, you don't get out much in the real world do you? Has nothing to do with venom Ian, and it has nothing to do with "hating you". I don't think I have actually ever hated anyone. Unlike you I do not delight in making other people look small. That is part of our human nature Ian, the one that is meant to diminish as we become more like jesus. It is also exactly what revival centre oversight do. Why is that technique good enough in ANY christian atmosphere?

It has to do with you treating people on this forum the same way we were treated by the Revival oversight. If you can't see that you are doing it, then you have learned nothing since the day you left them. Why do you think so many people get angry with you? Are you always in the right and everyone else having a collective delusion? You want us to listen Ian, treat us with RESPECT. You do know what that is don't you?


Arrogant and condescending people have always been like a red rag to a bull where I am concerned. I believe we are all equal ian before god and before each other. You clearly don't. You seem to know a lot about the scriptures in a head knowledge sense ian, but very little about how to actually live them.

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 12:13 AMCopy HTML

 MOT MOT, re Ian staying in the chat box,,,, ha ha ha,now here is the rub,, quite a while ago, ian left the forum for a time, however at sometime came back and his first post back he stated that he would stay OUT of the chat room and just use the main part of the forum. it is plainly obviouse that he has not done this,and thus many as you have mentioned no longer post and or skim past his protracted opinions.

He will of course state that he was invited to the chat room however if he was a man of his word he would have declined and stayed in the main forum area.


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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 12:17 AMCopy HTML

Surprise, surprise.

With this forum slowly turning into a circus these past few weeks, it was only a matter of time before someone sent in the clown

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 12:54 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

You should probably approach my posts as one would undertake panning for gold: isolate and keep the shiny bits whilst disregarding the muck and mud. What you shouldn't do; however, is tell me how to post; especially given that I've seen nothing from you to date that indicates that you're an authority about Christianity, Christian theology or applied Christian ethics.

Try taking the hatchet out of my back and burying it for a bit, and let's see what develops.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 2:00 AMCopy HTML

You should probably approach my posts as one would undertake panning for gold: isolate and keep the shiny bits whilst disregarding the muck and mud. What you shouldn't do; however, is tell me how to post; especially given that I've seen nothing from you to date that indicates that you're an authority about Christianity, Christian theology or applied Christian ethics.

Try taking the hatchet out of my back and burying it for a bit, and let's see what develops.

The hatchet was NEVER in your back Ian, just your attitude. I can verbally eviscerate people too, but I am ashamed of that side of my personality Ian, and constantly ask God to help me keep my mouth shut. You would probably be surprised to know that only 1/4 of what forms in my bitchy litte brain leaves my mouth or my fingers. That would be to pursue to the christian ethics I seek to apply, even though it is against my nature. You may wish to try it. You have some good things to say Ian, but you are still a bitch. Don't really know what you hope to accomplish when you are trying to push people toward CHRISTIANITY. Is it an example of the kind of leaders people should hope to find when they get there? Sigh.

If I can't tell you how to post, then you can't tell me how to interpret your post. Work both ways.

And Mr Authority Fixation, I don't need to be an authority. Still can't work out why you need to. Perhaps you should ask the people who know me about my applied christian ethics.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 3:45 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

I don't think you adequately understand why I post here. I've no particular interest in "evangelising" people to the Christian faith via this forum, but when I do engage in evangelism it's in a more intimate, "one-to-one" fashion. Consequently I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find any "evangelistic" appeals from me to the masses telling them to throw themselves on Christ's mercy in order to be saved! My primary aim in posting is to  dispel the more common "neo-Pente/Revivalist" myths and heresies that some people (i.e. Revivalists and certain "former" Revivalists) still cling to and/or promote. Basically, if a person chooses to reject Christianity, then "more power to them". Such won't affect my eternity one jot. However, if the rejection itself is based on (1) faulty information; (2) a misunderstanding; or (3) or a parody of the facts, then I will intervene. Should a person claim to being a Christian, but then promotes beliefs or practices which stand contradictory to the fundamentals of the Christian faith, I will also "speak my peace".

Finally, being the fun loving guy that I am, I also pop in because I find many (but by no means all) of the interactions and shenanigans that take place here thoroughly entertaining!

Ian

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 7:42 AMCopy HTML

Reply to earth5 (16/07/2009 10:13:04)

 MOT MOT, re Ian staying in the chat box,,,, ha ha ha,now here is the rub,, quite a while ago, ian left the forum for a time, however at sometime came back and his first post back he stated that he would stay OUT of the chat room and just use the main part of the forum. it is plainly obviouse that he has not done this,and thus many as you have mentioned no longer post and or skim past his protracted opinions.

He will of course state that he was invited to the chat room however if he was a man of his word he would have declined and stayed in the main forum area.




I just wanted to state here, for the record, and quite unfortunately in violation of the newly appointed forum rules, that this statement from earth5 brands him as somewhat as a jerk, imo.  
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 7:49 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo

As RCIers we were systematically and effectively commanded to be in absolute obedience to their leader/s, to unskilled teachers and preaching.  Unskilled men intruding into peoples' lives and very soul.  Little wonder depression is rife, families divided, marriages broken down, those deemed needing discipline ostracised along with those who are considered backslidden.  Leave RCI and you leave the Lord, fear tactics.

As you have probably noticed on this forum, I'm not great at taking on the ideas of others just because they give me a good story. As much trouble as my constant questioning and refusal to believe bullshit caused me in revival, I am glad now I am such an intractable brat. I never believed they were the only christians. I pretty well never saw the oversight even live like decent human beings, much less the pillars of christianity they seemed to think they were. I constantly called them on their apalling behaviour, their social control and their complete lack of love or compassion for the people in the assembly. You want me to believe you are a christian now, live it. Walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I am SO tired of people who come to me in the name of christ who cannot even manage to treat those around them with basic respect, much less the deep love for each other that god places within us when our heart is open to him.

Chapter 1 of the widely read treatise of Pope Gregory 1st Cura Pastoralis (Pastoral Care) written around 590 has interesting things to say about unskilled shepherds:-

[That the unskilful venture not to approach an office of authority.  No one presumes to teach an art till he has first, with intent meditation, learnt it.  What rashness is it, then, for the unskilful to assume pastoral authority, since the government of souls is the art of arts........And yet how often do men who have no knowledge whatever of spiritual precepts fearlessly profess themselves physicians of the heart, though those who are ignorant of the effect of drugs blush to appear as physicians of the flesh] 

Yep. And I see it over and over again in just about every christian organisation I am involved with. It seems that the need for power, even in those who say they love god is rife. I just don't get it. Honestly, after the damage I have seen those in church authority do tothe lives of others I would never want to be in authority over anyone. The possible damage to people is just too great, and I certainly would not want to be judged by god for making another person lose their faith.

He uses a quote from the Prophet Isaiah  that the shepherds themselves have not known understanding.

[Yet this unskilfulness of the shepherds doubtless suits often the deserts of those who are subject the them because though it is their own fault that they have not the light of knowledge, yet it is in the dealing of strict judgement that through their ignorance those also who follow them should stumble.  Hence it is that, in the Gospel  the Truth in Person says, "If the blind lead the blind, both fall into the ditch."  Matt XV : 14]

No understanding, no love. I know I keep labouring the point, but it doesn't matter what we do for god, if there isn't genuine love in it, it's a waste of time.

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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:16/07/2009 10:28 PMCopy HTML


But Alpha males are SO tasty. smiley4 They account for a good deal of this middle age spread, and my cats like the bones.
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Re:Isn't it creepy how there is always anon. people watching

Date Posted:20/07/2009 11:01 PMCopy HTML

Reply to motmot
              We have all been aware of how quiet the Forum has been lately and no doubt to the delight of Noddy Noel, Daddy Addy and others too, and it has been mostly due to some who pontificate their professional prowess with their biblical knowledge and theology and personal ego which has prevented many from posting.
              Now while these people are not ex-GRCr's , it also must be said that to some, they have helped some and they do get something benificial out of it. I must admit that I didn't because like most people on here, we are not into thoelogy and that is because we were once 'brain-washed ' with that type of verbology before and now, we are not the least bit interested to hear or read anymore of it.
              Although it has been quiet here with very few posts, please take note that it has not really been that way ! Just because not many have posted, they still have been surfing the  "GRC Forum" with a watchful eye, just look at how many ' hits ' (viewers) there have been but now that some time has elapsed, I feel it's time to invite all ex-GRC members to start posting again without and reprisal or interferance from
"other Revival churches ".
             I have had so many people contact me complaining about non- GRCr's posting here  - not all non GRCr's , but some in particular.  I am not advocating that non-GRCr's can't post but rather, I do invite them, but please remember to keep to the topic (so to speak) and you would be most welcome.
             There is some sentiment amongst the Forum for us to move to another site especially set aside for us. I see no need to do this for one simple reason  .....  Read what it says at the top of this page !  ......

     Category :        " Geelong  Revival  Centre  (GRC) "

            Like   ....  aluuurrrr  !  This site is our site - it is designated for us, so why change to suit others, or why should we run away from our place and position here.

So lets stake our place and stand firm and if .........

I agree with all you have said Tom.

RCI prophesies
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