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worriedmum
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Date Posted:04/09/2007 10:27 AMCopy HTML

Just wondering if anyone ever left Woodcroft RF after being there some time (baptised etc.) and has not been going to a church regularly ever since. May be you know someone? I would appreciate if Icould ask you some questions?
If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:04/09/2007 10:27 AMCopy HTML

Just wondering if anyone ever left Woodcroft RF after being there some time (baptised etc.) and has not been going to a church regularly ever since. May be you know someone? I would appreciate if I could ask you some questions?

 

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
markgreyam Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:10/10/2007 4:04 PMCopy HTML

Yup, right here. Ask away.

Wasn't there for overly long, but I did get baptised in a moment of weakness/stupidity (delete as appropriate).

Edit to include actually useful info : And yes, I haven't gone near a church since. Well, except for that church down in Sellicks Beach that is now a cafe.

I never really believed in all religious stuff during the time I was there (read : I err ... kinda followed this girl I was hot for there), and I wasn't exactly a 'proper' member per-se (read : I never started babbling like an idiot).

Only mentioning these because you might actually be after someone that was actually into it, not just someone who was on the fringe and never really got pulled in.

In fact, I was kinda neither here nor there with regards to religion until I actually was part of the cult they have going on at Woodcroft, and it was the fact that I'm a student of science that made me look into it all before realising what a mistake I was making.
worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:10/10/2007 10:13 PMCopy HTML

Hi! So, you actually never spoken in tongues? That means you never received the Holy Spirit? Well, in the Revivalist sense. It is good you can still think critically. How do you think learning science helped you? Many people on this forum belied that learning science can in no way to influence your understanding and learning about god and Revivalism. It's a pity you never spoke in tongues, because I was hoping you could meet up with my son. Lately he is saying things like Democracy killed Jesus, and his family is satanic, and if Jesus says to kill so be it. It is very difficult to understand where it comes from, I don't know if he picked it up in the RF, Internet or in other Christian groups.

I talked to my GP today and she said he must have some mental problems, but she probably is not aware of how people are brainwashed in RF, and we have seen already a psychologist. It was not very helpful. Even though he stopped going to a church, nothing changed. So, yes, I am not sure what else I can do. Whether I should go to  police, government or a psychiatrist or really simply kick him out? Looks like this is really what he wants.

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:11/10/2007 8:39 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : markgreyam

Yo. I'm not wanting to get into a debate here, just make something clear.

WorriedMum wrote "Many people on this forum belied that learning science can in no way to influence your understanding and learning about god and Revivalism."

I suspect she was in large part referring to me. The gist of my part of our exchanges, as I believe you can see for yourself , was more along the lines that:
1) science (as in what used to be called 'the scientific method'), theology and biblical Christianity are complementary, not conflicting
2) Hume's fork - which underlies the thinking of many scientists (and others) who promote philosophical naturalism as the answer to 'life, the universe and everything' - is a fatally flawed philosophy

I've said elsewhere that the first few chapters of 'I don't have enough faith to be an athiest' by Geissler and Turek are useful reading if one wishes to follow up on this.

FWIW I have a Master's degree in applied science, although I'm not working as a 'scientist'.

RFOTE

worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:11/10/2007 10:01 AMCopy HTML

RF-on the edge

What is the reason that you do not work as a scientist? Pension age?

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
markgreyam Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:17/10/2007 2:20 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

I'm obviously not the type of person you're looking for, but I'll dribble on the page a bit more just because I'm idle at work.

I never got too caught up in all that crap, and I never started babbling incoherently. I do feel embarrassed thinking about attempting to 'receive the holy spirit', which is possibly the point at which someone loses the ability to think critically. It's odd that something like that is regarded as a virtue. It's been said that the best way to become an "atheist" is to actually read the bible and about it's history.

Also, having Paul Nobel (I think that was his name) suggest to me - in answer to me inquiring about how the rest of the universe and life on other planets etc fit into the bible - that maybe I should consider that the sky itself is nothing more than a beautiful mosaic that the lord god placed their for our appreciate of the wonder of his creation ... does wonders for waking you up to the pure insanity you are surrounded in while there.

What? People here can compare learning science with 'learning' about god and some specific religion out of the hundreds of available flavors? How do you 'learn' about a book with no supporting evidence? Sure, you can learn about the history of the book, but are you prepared to when your opinion is that it is divinely inspired? Whatever.

I have zero patience for religion anymore, and I have to say that not only does your son sound quite insane, he also sounds like he could be quite dangerous. And I honestly don't think that asking for help from an anonymous internet forums is quite the path to take.

The creators of the the specific religious garbage in question here can if nothing else be credited with the masterstroke of suggesting that if you are ridiculed or ever persecuted for your beliefs that this simply reinforces the fact that you are right, or something to that effect. So it can put you on a hiding to nothing unless he comes around by himself.

Thankfully, the cherry picking that the vast majority of people do with their affection for the contents of the christian bible generally excludes all the blatant violence. It's quite strange that when you find someone that actually takes it all literally and not just the pretty bits, that they are immediately distanced from most of the other bible thumpers. Although I think it was the god that sanctioned (and performed) all the killing, I don't know how much of it that Jesus was responsible for, specifically.

All I can tell you is that I don't remember anything pertaining to outright violence at the RF in the time I was there. The most prevalent attitude was an absolutely disgusting smugness at the belief that all the people that ridiculed or simply didn't share their beliefs were going to burn in hell forever. They seemed quite happy that their ever-loving god would be smiting those that disagreed with them. "Hope he's got a fireproof suit prepared" is another gem I can attribute to the craziness of Paul Nobel. Although to describe him personally as such could incorrectly imply that he was alone in that sort of thinking. People actually laughed at that line.

So yeah, good luck with that. I forget how I arrived at this forum, but, like virtually all religious forums, it appears to be a waste of time. From looking around, either you're preaching to the choir, or your trying to argue logic and facts with people that simply will refuse to see it or twist it to fit their already finalized mindset. It's a waste of time.

Case in point, I really hope you aren't wasting your time with any 'exchanges' with RF_on_the_edge. I'm not going to fall into the same hole by even wasting any time with the truly ridiculous comparison between the scientific method and theology, and anything to do with the intellectual masturbation that passes off as philosophy. Although it should be enough warning that someone could consider convincing the arguments presented in the opening chapters of the hilariously titled "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist", which seem to essentially be summarized thusly: If the bible isn't true then there is the possibility that my life is meaningless, and that's not fair, therefore the bible is true. And while it's possible I simply didn't bother reading enough of it, but it also appears to make the brilliantly intelligent assumption that any supposed proof that there is a god is then proof that their specific god exists, which is the only option because, after all, that is the religion they choose to believe in. Man, Thor is going to be pissed.

Also, it's very cute that he has a Masters in Applied Science, although regardless of my own personal degree, I didn't mean to simply imply that I was too smart to believe in this garbage, but I appreciate that he/she probably wants to wave their piece of paper around in the hope that it somehow lends weight to their position on matters of faith. It was more a phrase used to explain that I actually looked into the evidence rather than just sit and be blindly told what to believe by some pastor who is labeled as a messenger of the biblical truth. Maybe they could apply their science degree into creating a vehicle that runs on cognitive dissonance, they'll save a lot of money on petrol that way.

(Although, as an aside, I've always wondered exactly how self-absorbed you have to be to think that people are going to be so keen on quoting your words that you feel the need to label all your forums posts with your own name when you details are so clearly placed in a huge block along the side of the forum page).
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:17/10/2007 4:14 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : markgreyam

Hi, Mark.

Having now read your views, it seems to me that you're equally as guilty of the 'intellectual masturbation' that you chide others for, given that you've done little more than 'philosophise', above, yourself

Cheers,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:17/10/2007 4:38 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : markgreyam

Here's one final riposte, and I won't take any more of your time.

... your trying to argue logic and facts with people that simply will refuse to see it or twist it to fit their already finalized mindset ...

Beware ... it cuts both ways

Case in point, I really hope you aren't wasting your time with ... anything to do with the intellectual masturbation that passes off as philosophy.

You know the story about the goldfish not preceiving that it's living in water? You're apparently in the same position regarding philosophy. Maybe you should read a philosopher you're likely to agree with, such as Richard Dawkins.

Afterthought: I used to think that myself. Thanks for reminding me.  Actually, since Dawkins is apparently flawed in his philosophical skills, maybe you'd be better off reading someone like Antony Frew.

Although it should be enough warning that someone could consider convincing the arguments presented in the opening chapters of the hilariously titled "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist", which seem to essentially be summarized thusly: If the bible isn't true then there is the possibility that my life is meaningless, and that's not fair, therefore the bible is true. And while it's possible I simply didn't bother reading enough of it, but it also appears to make the brilliantly intelligent assumption that any supposed proof that there is a god is then proof that their specific god exists, which is the only option because, after all, that is the religion they choose to believe in. Man, Thor is going to be pissed. 

Well, you evidently didn't comprehend much of what you did 'bother reading'. The opening chapters deal with matters like whether there is such a thing as truth, whether it's possible to know truth, and the reasonableness of theism (not Christianity). Their defense of Christianity comes later, and that's why I pointed to the early chapters. That said, in view of your preceding comments I'm surprised you wasted your time looking at a book that is obviously 'intellectual masturbation'. Still, I  do appreciate that you took some time.

Also, it's very cute that he has a Masters in Applied Science, although regardless of my own personal degree, I didn't mean to simply imply that I was too smart to believe in this garbage, but I appreciate that he/she probably wants to wave their piece of paper around in the hope that it somehow lends weight to their position on matters of faith.

No, it was to indicate that I could reasonably claim to know at least a little science and still claim to be a Christian. Actually, my student compatriots and I joked that BSc meant 'bull ...', MSc meant 'more ...', and PhD meant 'piled higher and deeper'!

Afterthought: I respect your ability to see flaws in RF which I didn't, but you could have PhD's and peer-reviewed papers up to your armpits, and though I would respect your science credentials, I would still say that if you conflate methodological naturalism with metaphysical naturalism you have a fatally flawed philosophical foundation.

(Although, as an aside, I've always wondered exactly how self-absorbed you have to be to think that people are going to be so keen on quoting your words that you feel the need to label all your forums posts with your own name when you details are so clearly placed in a huge block along the side of the forum page).

We are grumpy today, aren't we?  You'll actually see that RFOTE <> RF_on_the_edge. The intention was to be a little less 'severe' in my tone; lesson learned. I certainly don't think I'm going to be quoted!!! I actually expect to be treated with more than a little disdain by people such as:
1) the avowed anti-Christians
2) those who've left RF, while I remain though disagreeing with their basic tenets (such as the 'salvation message')
3) Revivalists who think they're right, I'm wrong and yet I remain though disagreeing with their basic tenets

PS You really would be wise to consider carefully your philosophical milieu.

worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:01/11/2007 8:01 PMCopy HTML

Ah, RF-on-the-edge is as much a scientist as I am a Christian.
If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:04/11/2007 9:48 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

'Mum',

Ah, RF-on-the-edge is as much a scientist as I am a Christian.

To use boxing 'speak', you like to 'lead' with your chin, eh?

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:08/11/2007 9:10 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Fac ut vivas!

 

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
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Re:Is there anyone here from RF Woodcroft? I also asked this at RF thread.

Date Posted:11/11/2007 5:44 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

'Mum',

Fac ut vivas!

Thanks, but I have one already

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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