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Date Posted:15/04/2005 9:31 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Silky]%*'`@My teacher told us in class that the female humans are the only mammals that have a sexual organ (the clitoris) simply for pleasure. This got me thinking. Since God has given us this, is it a sin to enjoy sex? Let's say, for example, a man and wife are trying to get pregnant. During sex, the woman is enjoying the feeling of it. Is this a sin? Or, since the clitoris is purely a pleasure organ, is masterbation in this sense a sin?I'd like your ideas and thoughts please. Thank you.
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:15/04/2005 11:19 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@


Let's say, for example, a man and wife are trying to get pregnant. During sex, the woman is enjoying the feeling of it. Is this a sin?



Well biologically it's very helpful that a woman orgasms during intercourse because in doing so, her cervix is dipped over and over again into the semen thus heightening her chance of getting pregnant.  And since God made it this way - then of couse it's not a sin!  The only things that are sins is what is mentioned in the bible and now where does it say that a woman can't enjoy sex!
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:15/04/2005 9:19 PMCopy HTML

We cannot shut off either our brains or our glands. But consider the following article by a man in full-time ministry. The article is blunt. It's not the usual LEADERSHIP article. But we felt it important to be just this blunt and realistic. Sexual temptations in many forms have always lured Christians, but today's opportunities and climate make this article especially relevant to all of us."Lust is the ape that gibbers in our loins. Tame him as we will be day, he rages all the wilder in our dreams by night. Just when we think we're safe from him, he raises up his ugly head and smirks, and there's no river in the world flows cold and strong enough to strike him down. Almighty God, why dost thou deck men out with such a loathsome toy?" -Frederick Buechner GodricI am writing this article anonymously because I am embarrassed. Embarrassed for my wife and children, yes, but embarrassed most for myself. I will tell of my personal battle with lust, and if I believed I were the only one who fought in that war, I would not waste emotional energy dredging up stained and painful memories. But I believe my experience is not uncommon, is perhaps even typical of pastors, writers, and conference speakers. No one talks about it. No one writes about it. But it's there, like an unacknowledged cancer that metastasizes best when no one goes for x-rays or feels for lumps. I know I am not alone, because the few times I have opened up and shared my struggles with Christian friends, they have replied with Doppelganger stories of exactly the same stages of awakening, obsession, possession. Years from now, when socio-historians sift through the documents describing our times, they will undoubtedly come up with elegant explanations of why men who grew up in church homes are oversexed and vulnerable to attacks of lust and obsession, and why women who grew up in those same environments emerged uptight and somewhat disinterested in sex. But I leave that to the future analysts. I remember vividly the night I first experienced lust. Real lust - not the high school and college variety. Of course as an adolescent I had drooled through Playboy, sneaked off to my uncle's room for a heart-thumping first look at hard- core pornography, and done my share of grappling and fumbling with my fiancee's clothes. I date my lust awakening, though, to the adult onslaught of mature, willful commitment to lust. It hit on one of my first trips away from home. My job required me to travel at that time, and as I sat in a dingy motel room near the airport and flipped through the city guide of what to do in Rochester, New York, I kept coming back to one haunting photo of an exotic dancer, a former Miss Peach Bowl winner, the ad said. She looked fresh and inviting: the enchanting kind of Southern girl you see on TV commercials for fried chicken - only this one had no clothes on. Somehow, I had survived the sixties sheltered from strippers and Woodstock-type nudity. And when I first saw the ad, I instinctively ruled her show out of bounds for me. But as I settled down to watch an inane TV show, her body kept looming before my mind with the simple question, "Why not?" I began to think. Indeed, why not? To be an effective Christian, I had to experience all of life, right? Didn't Jesus himself hang around with prostitutes and sinners? I could go simply as an observer, in the world but not of the world. Rationalizations leaped up like flying buttresses to support my desires, and within ten minutes I was bundled in the back seat of a taxi headed toward the seamy side of Rochester. I got the driver to let me off a few blocks away, just for safety's sake, and I kept glancing over my shoulder expecting to see someone I knew. Or perhaps God would step in, efface my desires, and change my mind about the wisdom of the act. I even asked Him about that, meekly. No answer. I walked into the bar between acts and was then faced with the new experience of ordering a drink. My forehead sweating, I scanned my memory of Westerns for an appropriate drink to order. Finally I decided on whiskey. I tried to make it sound casual, but the waitress flummoxed me by asking another question. "How do you want it? "How do I want it? What did she mean? What could I say? It seemed everyone in the bar was staring at me. "A double," I stammered. Sensing my naivet? she rolled her eyes slightly and asked, "Is on the rocks OK?" Bolstered by my first fiery sips of whiskey, which I tried to stretch out so as not to have to order another, I sat with my eyes glued to the stage. Miss Peach Bowl was everything the ad had promised. With a figure worthy of a Wonder Woman costume, she danced superbly and was something of an acrobat. She started fully clothed and teased us with slow removals of each sequined article of clothing. Toward the end, when she wore only a G- string, whooping men near the stage bade her lean over and stuffed folded bills under the tiny swatch of cloth. She grinned invitingly. I stared in disbelief. In one final strobe-lit routine she cartwheeled nude across the stage. The flush of excitement created by my first whiskey, drunk too fast in spite of myself, the eye-popping spectacle of this gorgeous woman baring all and jiggling it in front of me, and the boisterous spirit of the all-male audience combined to over-power me. I walked out of the bar two hours later feeling strangely warmed, intensely excited, and surprised that nothing had actually happened to me. I suppose it's the same feeling that washed in after a big event like marriage, or graduation, or first intercourse for that matter. In just a few hours you realize that although in one sense everything has changed, in another sense nothing has changed. You are the same person. Lust shares with sins like envy and pride the distinction of being invisible, slippery, hard to pin down. Was what happened that night a sin? I denied it to myself on the way home. To really rate as lust, I told myself, you must look on a woman so as to desire sexual intercourse with her. Isn't that what Jesus said? Whatever happened that night, I certainly couldn't recall desiring intercourse with Miss Peach Bowl. It was more private and distant than that. What happened, happened quickly, was gone, and left no scars. Or so I thought at the time. Ten years have passed since that awakening in wintry Rochester, ten years spent never far from the presence of lust. The guilt caught up with me, and back in my motel room that very evening, I was already praying slobbery prayers for forgiveness. For a while that guilt kept me out of live shows and limited my voyeurism to magazines and movies, but only for a while. For ten years I have fought unremitting guerrilla warfare. Being the reflective sort, I have often pondered the phenomenon of lust. It is unlike anything else in my experience. Most thrills - scary roller coasters, trips in airplanes, visits to waterfalls - lose a certain edge of excitement once I have experienced them and figured them out. I enjoy them and will duplicate the experiences if given the chance, but after a few tries, they no longer hold such a powerful gravitational attraction. Sex is utterly different. There is only so much to "figure out". Every person who endures high school biology, let alone a sniggering sex education class, knows the basic shapes, colors, and sizes of the sexual organs. Anyone who has been to an art museum knows about women's breasts. Anyone who has hauled down a gynecology book in a public library knows about genitalia. Somehow, no amount of knowledge reduces the appeal - the forces may, in fact, work concordantly. What strange power is it that allows a male gynecologist to clinically examine female sexual organs all day long - there is nothing left for him to "learn" - and yet return home and find himself quickly aroused by his wife's peekaboo blouse? "An ape that gibbers in my loins," wrote novelist Frederick Buechner about lust, and no experience comes with such a feral force. And yet, maybe by labeling it an "animal drive" we have missed the main point of lust. No animal I have heard of spends its life fixating on sex. Females in most species invite attention only a few times a year or less; the rest of the time males obediently plod through the mundane routine of phylogeny, apparently never giving sex another thought. Humans are different. We have the freedom to center our lives inordinately in this one drive, without the harmony enforced by nature. Our females are biologically receptive the vast majority of the time, and no instinct inhibits us from focusing all our thoughts, behavior, and energy on sex. I have tried to analyze lust, to fractionate it down into its particulars. I take a Playboy centerfold and study it with a magnifying glass. It consists only of dots - dots of four primary colors laid down by a printing press in a certain order. There is no magic on that page, only stipples of ink, which under magnification, show flaws and blurs. But there is magic on that page. I can stare at it, burn the image in my mind, fondle it mentally for hours, even days. Blood steams up when I gaze on it. Early Marxists, heady with revolution, added sex to their list of human foibles needing alteration. Lenin pronounced his famous Glass of Water Theory, legislating that the sexual act was of no more consequence that the quenching of thirst by a glass of water. Surely bourgeois morality would topple along with bourgeois banks and industries and religions. But in a few years, Lenin had to abjure the Glass of Water Theory. By all reductionist logic, sex was like a glass of water, but sex proved immune to reductionist logic. It resisted being made of no consequence. Lenin, a historian, should have known better. Kings had renounced their thrones, saints their God, and spouses their lifetime partners because of this strange demon of lust. Dialectical materialism hardly stood a chance. Books often question God's wisdom or goodness in allowing so much pain and sorrow in the world, and yet I have read none that question his goodness and wisdom in allowing so much sex and lust in the world. But I think the two may be parallel questions. Whether through creation or marred creation or whatever (we can't get into that here), we ended up with sex drives that virtually impel us to break rules God laid down. Males reach their sexual peak at age eighteen, scientists tell us. In our culture, you can't even legally marry before then, so when a male marries, if he has remained chaste, he has already forfeited his time of greatest sexual prowess. Mark Twain railed against God for parceling out to each human a source of universal joy and pleasure, at its peak in teenage years, then forbidding it until marriage and restricting it to one partner. He has a point. Couldn't our hormones or chromosomes have been arranged so that mates would more easily find sexual satisfaction with just one partner? Why weren't we made more like the animals, who, except for specified periods, go through their daily routine (nude to a beast) with hardly a thought of sex. I could handle lust better if I knew it would only strike me in October in May. It's the not knowing, the ceaseless vulnerability, that drives me crazy. Lust, I read somewhere, is the craving for salt by a man who is dying of thirst. There's a touch of perversion there, isn't there? Why were we not made with merely a craving for water, thus removing the salt from every newsstand, television show, and movie? I know what you are thinking, you readers of LEADERSHIP. You are protesting that God never makes me lust, that I choose it, that he probably allows it as an opportunity for me to exercise my virtue. Yes, yes, I understand all that. But some of you know firsthand, as I do, that those pious platitudes, albeit perfectly correct, have almost no relevance to what happens biologically inside me when I visit a local beach or pick up any of a hundred magazines. Some of you know what it is like to walk with your eyes at breast level, to flip eagerly through every new issue of TIME searching for a rare sexy picture, to yearn for chains on the outside of your motel room to keep you in - unless it comes with that most perverse of all modern inventions, the in-room porno movie. And you also know what it is like to wallow in the guilt of that obsession, and to cry and pray with God to release you, to mutate you, to castrate you like Origen - whatever it takes to deliver you. And even as you pray, luscious, bewitching images crowd into your mind. You also know what it is like to preach on Sunday, in a strange city, to preach even on a topic like grace or obedience or the will of God, or the decline of our civilization, with the awful and wonderful memories of last night's lust still more real to you at that moment that the sea of expectant faces spread out before you. You know the self-hatred that comes with that intolerable dissonance. And you muddle through the sermon swearing never to let it get to you like that again, until after the service a shapely woman comes beaming and squeezes your hand and whispers praise to you, and all resolve melts, and as she explains how blessed she was by your message, you are mentally undressing her. The night in Rochester was my first experience with adult lust, but by no means my last. Strip joints are too handy these days. The drug store down the street sells Hustler, High Society, Jugs, anything you want. I have been to maybe fifteen truly pornographic movies, including the few classics like Deep Throat and Behind the Green Door. They scare me, perhaps because it seems so deliberate and volitional to stand in line (always glancing around furtively), to pay out money and to sit in the dark for an hour or two. The crowd is unlike any other crowd I mix with - they remind me I don't belong.
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:16/04/2005 1:12 PMCopy HTML

And the movies, technically, aesthetically, and even erotically, are vapid and boring. But still, when a local paper advertises one more Emmanuelle sequel, I drool.

I learned quickly that lust, like physical sex, points in only one direction. You cannot go back to a lower level and stay satisfied. Always you want more. A magazine excites, a movie thrills, a live show really makes the blood run. I never got as far as body tattooing, personal photograph sessions, and massages, let alone outright prostitution, but I've experienced enough of the unquenchable nature of sex to frighten me for good. Lust does not satisfy; it stirs up. I no longer wonder how deviants can get into child molesting, masochism, and other abnormalities. Although such acts are incomprehensible to me, I remember well that where I ended up was also incomprehensible to me when I started.

A cousin of mine subscribes to at least fifteen of the raunchiest magazines I have ever seen. Books I have peeked at for just a few seconds in airport newsstands litter his house. He has told me that, even surrounded by vivid depictions of every sex act, every size and shape of woman he can imagine, he still wants more. He still devours the new issues. He and his wife are experimenting with orgies now, and numerous other variations I won't mention. It is not enough. The thrill will fade before long, and he will want more.

Psychologists use the term obsession to label what I have been describing, and they may say that I have more innate obsession than the average male. They would trace its genesis back to my repressive upbringing, and they are undoubtedly right. That is why I am writing to others of you in the Christian world. If you have not fought such obsession yourself, every Sunday when you step to the pulpit you speak to many who have, although you could hardly read it in their blank, freshly scrubbed faces. Lust is indeed an invisible sin.

At times the obsession has felt to me more like possession. I remember one time especially that scared me. I was in Washington, DC, one of the places in the United States where any kind of lust is easily attainable. At three o'clock in the afternoon, after touring the cherry blossoms, I sauntered into a dark bar that advertised nude dancing. I fended off the girls who came to my table and asked for drinks, and instead directed my attention to the dancers. There were only two, and maybe five customers at most. One black girl with an unspectacular figure weaved over to the part of the stage nearest my table.

This was somewhat different than the other strip shows I had seen. There was no teasing or "visual foreplay". She was already naked, unashamedly so, and she wiggled maybe a foot from my head. She stared right into my eyes. This was so close, so intimate, that it seemed for a terrifying moment to be nearer a relationship than a performance. What I felt could only be called possession.

I found myself - it seemed as though I had not made the decision, that someone else's hands inside mine were doing it - fumbling in my pocket, pulling out bills and stuffing them in a garter belt high up on her thigh. In appreciation she maneuvered herself to grant an even better view. She had no secrets.

I staggered out of that bar. I felt I had crossed a line and could never return to innocence. That weekend I had important business engagements, but throughout them indelible images of that anonymous girl filled my mind. I yearned to flee and go home to my wife, to demonstrate to her my fear so that she could shelter me and mother me and keep me from following where all this was leading.

Just a few years before, I had sat with a distant, reproachful view and watched men lose control and act like country-fair churls as they stuffed bills down the G- string of Miss Peach Bowl. I would never stoop to that - I was smugly confident in Rochester. After all, I was intelligent, happily married, sophisticated - a committed Christian known by friends for my self-control. It would never happen. But it did.

When I went home, I did not tell my wife. How could I? The story was too long, and she, who had hardly ever known lust and had never been unfaithful to me, would not comprehend it. It would likely rupture my marriage, and then I would be cast loose on a sea I could not navigate.

I made a vow then - one more in a series. I vowed I would only look at Playboy and other "respectable" erotic magazines. No more raunchiness. I had certain rationalizations about lust, and pained realism about my inability to stay pure. I simply needed some safe boundaries, I decided. Here are some of my rationalizations that supported my conclusion to contain, not destroy, my lust:
  • Nudity is art. Go to any art museum in the world, and you will see nudity openly displayed. The human form is beautiful, and it would be puritanical to cut off appreciation for it. Playboy is photographed well, with an aesthetic, not prurient tone.

  • Playboy and its kin have great articles. There's the Jimmy Carter interview, for example, and Penthouse's conversation with Jerry Falwell. I must keep up with such material.

  • Some stimulation will help my sex life. I have a problem approaching my wife and communicating my desire for sex to her. I need a sort of boost, a stimulant to push me to declare my intentions.

  • Other people do far worse. I know many Christian leaders who still do all the things I toyed with, and worse. For that matter, look at Bible characters - as randy a bunch as you'll ever meet. There's probably no such thing as a pure person anyway; everybody has some outlet.

  • What is lust anyhow, I kept asking myself. Is fantasizing wrong in itself? If so, then erotic dreams would count as sin, and how could I be responsible for my dreams? I reminded myself of the definition of lust I had started with long before: desiring intercourse with a specific sexual partner. I experienced a general sexual heightening, a raising of the voltage, not a specific desire for the act of intercourse.

Some, perhaps all, of these rationalizations contain some truth. (Do they sound familiar?) I used them as an overlay of reason and common sense. To my dismay, on several occasions I had already felt it burst out of containment and take on a sinister power. At other times, I could analyze lust and put it in perspective, but at the moment when it was occurring I knew I would not stop and analyze. I would let it take its course. Secretly, I began to wonder what that course would be.

Don't let me give the wrong impression. My entire life did not revolve around lust. I would go days without fixating on sex, and sometimes a month or two without seeking out a pornographic magazine or movie. And many, many times I would cry out to God, imploring him to take away the desire. Why were my prayers not answered? Why did God continue to curse me with freedom, even when that freedom led me away from him?

I read numerous articles and books on temptation but found little help. If you boiled down all the verbiage and the ten-point lists of practical advice for coping with temptation, basically all they said was "Just stop doing it." That was easy to say. I knew some of those authors, and knew that they too struggled and failed, as I did. In fact, I too had preached many a sermon on handling temptation, but look at me. Practical "how-to" articles proved hopelessly inadequate, as if they said "Stop being hungry" to a starving man. Intellectually I might agree with their theology and their advice, but my glands would still secrete. What insight can change glands?

"Jesus was tempted in all points as you are," some of the articles and books would say, as if that would cheer me up. It did not help. In the first place, none of the authors could conceivably describe how Jesus experienced sexual temptation, because he never talked about it, and no one else has ever been perfect and lived to tell about it. Such well-meaning comments reminded me of telling a ghetto dweller in East Bronx, "Oh, President Reagan used to be poor too. He knows how you feel." Try telling that to a poor person, and prepare to duck.

I felt a similar reaction when I read accounts of people who had overcome lust. Usually, they wrote or talked in a condescending, unctuous tone. Or, like Jesus, they seemed too far removed from my own spiritual quagmire to comfort me. Augustine described his condition twelve years after conversion from his lusty state. In that advanced spiritual place he prayed to overcome these besetting sins: the temptation to enjoy his food instead of taking it as a necessary medicine "until the day when Thou wilt destroy both the belly and the meat"; the attraction of sweet scents; the pleasure of the ear provided by church music lest he be "more moved by the singing than by the thing that is sung"; the lure of the eye to "diverse forms of beauty, of brilliant and pleasing colors"; and last, the temptation of "knowing for knowing's sake". Sorry, Augustine, I respect you; but prayers like that led to the climate of repression and body-hatred that I have been vainly trying to escape all my life.

I got a perverse pleasure out of knowing that this same Augustine a few years earlier had prayed, "Give me chastity, but not yet." He delayed purity for a while also, to sample more delights than I would likely get around to. Why is it that I scoffed at accounts of saints who overcame temptation but loved hearing about those who gave in? There must be a name for that sin, too.

Most of this time I hated sex. I could not imagine it existing in any sort of balance in my life. Of course I knew its pleasure - that was the gravitational attraction - but those short bursts of pleasure were horribly counterbalanced by days of guilt and anguish. I could not reconcile my technicolor fantasy life with my more mundane experience of sex in marriage. I began to view sex as another of God's mistakes, like tornadoes and earthquakes. In the final analysis, it only caused misery. Without it, I could conceive of becoming pure and godly and all those other things the Bible exhorted me toward. With sex, any spiritual development seemed hopelessly unattainable. Maybe Origen had the right idea after all.

It is true there is difficulty in entering into godliness. But this difficulty does not arise from the religion which begins in us, but only from the irreligion which is still there. If our sense were not opposed to penitence, and if our corruption were not opposed to the purity of God, there would be nothing in this painful to us. We suffer only in proportion as the vice which is natural to us resists supernatural grace. Our heart feels torn asunder between these opposed efforts. But it would be very unfair to impute this violence to God, who is drawing us on, instead of to the world, which is holding us back. It is as a child, which a mother tears from the arms of robbers, in the pain it suffers, should love the loving and legitimate violence of her who procures its liberty, and detest only the impetuous and tyrannical violence of those who detain it unjustly.

The most cruel war which God can make with men in this life is to leave them without that war which He came to bring. "I came to send war," He says, "and to teach them of this war. I came to bring fire and the sword." Before Him the world lived in this false peace. - Blaise Pascal Penses


This article is divided into two parts. The first part, which you have just read, recounts the downward spiral of temptation, yielding, self-hatred, and despair. If I had read this article several years ago, I would have gleefully affirmed everything. Then, when I got to the second part, which describes a process of healing, I would have turned cynical and sour, rejecting what follows. Such is the nature of self- deception.

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:16/04/2005 2:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Silky [Anonymous]

Hey you sound like you wanna talk? How old are you? I bet you are a real pretty girl?
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:17/04/2005 10:50 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Calamity]%*'`@

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:17/04/2005 11:11 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Silky]%*'`@

I remember that I was about 6 or 7. And I am not joking. I had no clue what it was that I was doing, I just knew I needed to do it. Most people think that if you masterbate at that age, someone must have told you how or something, but that isn't true. I was very sheltered; I invented masturbation on my own. Boredom is what triggers it for me now. Boredom and restlessness. I used to read romance novels and they would create desires in me that I needed to release. I stopped reading romance novels after I came to RW a lot of extra time on my hands now and that I'm on school hols. I'm in Yr 10 btw.

Last night I read my bible until my eyes started to cross. This marks two weeks since I broke up with my BF. Usually we'd talk on the phone all weekend. He told me the we could masterbate each other and I'd still have my virgin barrier (hymen)? I feel so bad and I'm afraid I'm going to die in a car crash becasue I liked it so much. I can't stop thinking about him.  I think the bad part about masterbation is the fantasy and thinking of people you know.

This weekend it's been a stretch to find constructive stuff to do... but it hasn't been impossible. "No temptation has siezed you..." I read that scripture tonight. And God is faithful to provide us with a way out.


I'm tempted right now... which is why I looked into this thread. For me, reading I KNOW I need to step away from the computer once I post and go do something constructive.

 

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:17/04/2005 8:03 PMCopy HTML

if you do something you think is disgusting or label as lust, of course you're going to attach negative connotations to it and feel some sort of guilt and/or regret. 

if you think it's ok, you wont feel so bad. 

christianity is definitely not the only belief system that says to steer away from desire and that desire can blind you to other things. 

but the negative connotations often have some part in the addiction, fascination and that extra 'passion' in it. 

there's this book that's kinda on the underground... basically how to get a girl and keep her forever. 

it's written by a pastor and goes on to explain in detail the psychological reasons behind addiction etc. including the 'formula' for passion. 

it is 'hope + fear = passion' and i see it. it tells you all the things to do at parties, in front of other girls etc. to keep your girl interested [with the aid of natural[ish] insticts like jealosy etc.] 

and it's funny how it coincides with how churches are run.... fear plus hope. 

things said to make you feel special and give you hope and then things added like the pusnishment side of things and armageddon and the wiles of the devil in the world. 

this passion can be likened to the spirit [or atmosphere of the church.] 

who defines the line between pronography and erotic beauty? everyone is different, right? beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? whatever turns you on... 

if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:18/04/2005 10:33 AMCopy HTML

where did you get the bit about me thinking it's sick. do you read other people's posts properly? i have no problem with it.

i thought it was you 'fishing'. do you mean two women talking or you revealing yet another personality?

anyway, if silky exists, good luck to her.

i thought it was a joke. or at least bait for christians. you know, those games you love to play?

so basically, it was a 'laying-on-of-hands' joke, but you probably wouldn't get it. you were in GRC for two weeks, was it? and the sick bit too...

'laying hands on the sick and they shall recover' etc.

and i might as well reiterate about the 'PEOPLE IN CHURCH MIGHT FIND YOU SO SICK...'

just so you don't have to go back and read it again.

hey, but it's all good...
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:18/04/2005 12:09 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Fatalite]%*'`@They'd think she's sick but secretly they'd be wanting to get into her pants and satisfy her
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:08/07/2005 8:21 PMCopy HTML

Sex between a man and his wife is not sin, and was created by God not just for procreation...but to be enjoyed.

John Cady
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:29/12/2005 8:36 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Silky [Anonymous]



My teacher told us in class that the female humans are the only mammals that have a sexual organ (the clitoris) simply for pleasure. This got me thinking. Since God has given us this, is it a sin to enjoy sex?Let's say, for example, a man and wife are trying to get pregnant. During sex, the woman is enjoying the feeling of it. Is this a sin?Or, since the clitoris is purely a pleasure organ, is masterbation in this sense a sin?I'd like your ideas and thoughts please. Thank you.





Mmmm...A lot of varied answers here.

Sex was to be Enjoyed in marriage outside of marriage it is Sin.

Masterbation is self indulgence therefore LUST , Lust is sin.
One is indulging in pleasure for self gratification usually acompanied by fantasy which is Adultery at heart.
Jesus said who so ever looks on a woman in Lust has commited Adultery in the mind.
Lust is the Sin here.
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:30/12/2005 6:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Silky [Anonymous]

My teacher told us in class that the female humans are the only mammals that have a sexual organ (the clitoris) simply for pleasure. This got me thinking. Since God has given us this, is it a sin to enjoy sex?Let's say, for example, a man and wife are trying to get pregnant. During sex, the woman is enjoying the feeling of it. Is this a sin?Or, since the clitoris is purely a pleasure organ, is masterbation in this sense a sin?I'd like your ideas and thoughts please. Thank you.

The Bible doesn't say any thing specific about tossing. Lets face it 99% of people toss and this would include RCI/RF pastors as well....

an

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:30/12/2005 8:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

The Bible doesn't say any thing specific about tossing. Lets face it 99% of people toss and this would include RCI/RF pastors as well....an

Exactly.  It spells out all kinds of sexual sins including getting it on with same sex partners and even animals...but not a sing word about masturbation.  Considering masturbation is so universal, I am pretty sure it would have been listed if it was a sin.  As we have discussed beofre, Jesus' talking about lusting after women in your heart was not meant to be another 'Thou shalt not' but was rather showing that no one can escape sin...even in their minds.

To try to tell people not to masturbate, especially unmarried men, is to take away a natural outlet for sexual frustration and is completely unnatural.  Next you're gonna want to take away breathing.

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:31/12/2005 8:52 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Mr J

Reply to : AnonymousThe Bible doesn't say any thing specific about tossing. Lets face it 99% of people toss and this would include RCI/RF pastors as well....anExactly. It spells out all kinds of sexual sins including getting it on with same sex partners and even animals...but not a sing word about masturbation. Considering masturbation is so universal, I am pretty sure it would have been listed if it was a sin. As we have discussed beofre, Jesus' talking about lusting after women in your heart was not meant to be another 'Thou shalt not' but was rather showing that no one can escape sin...even in their minds.To try to tell people not to masturbate, especially unmarried men, is to take away a natural outlet for sexual frustration and is comple

The nearest scripture I can find that has some reference is Leviticus 15:16 but then again the scripture is so broad that you would have to include the regular "wet" dream as well.

.... " And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and evey skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water  and be unclean until the even.."

LOL ha ha ha yep chuckle, I suppose if you want to be legalistic, you have the perfect pretext to get the wife to share the shower with you in the ensuite before breakfast... ha ha LOL

    happy new year guys

anon 

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:31/12/2005 5:15 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Mr J

Reply to : AnonymousThe Bible doesn't say any thing specific about tossing. Lets face it 99% of people toss and this would include RCI/RF pastors as well....anExactly. It spells out all kinds of sexual sins including getting it on with same sex partners and even animals...but not a sing word about masturbation. Considering masturbation is so universal, I am pretty sure it would have been listed if it was a sin. As we have discussed beofre, Jesus' talking about lusting after women in your heart was not meant to be another 'Thou shalt not' but was rather showing that no one can escape sin...even in their minds.To try to tell people not to masturbate, especially unmarried men, is to take away a natural outlet for sexual frustration and is comple

A further point... There is an interesting story about Darryl Williams on the parent website rc.cultweb.net about the fact that he gets people, in particularly the young ones to sit down and tell him him in exacting intimate details of the course of their sexual liason when a fornication had taken or had "alleged" to have taken place.  Now the mind boggles but when you consider the arrogance of Darryl Williams, you do begin to put two and two together about what the man must get up to and you certainly cannot hold such an abrogated tactless person to be above any reproach, can you??? Certainly the actions of Darryl Williams ( and I have heard it has been happening for years) casts a complete cloud over the entire  Pastors and Leaders of the Revival Fellowship..

The same can be said for the CAI with Scott Williams and the nude male massaging nights that he has conducted in the past.... 

anon 

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:02/01/2006 7:45 AMCopy HTML

Hi anon,

do u know more about what happened in these nights? I have also heard about it, that something like this had taken place but  I don? know specificall what they were about, what was done there.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2nd Corinthians,chapter 3,17
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:02/01/2006 9:04 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Freelady

Hi anon,do u know more about what happened in these nights? I have also heard about it, that something like this had taken place but I don? know specificall what they were about, what was done there.

Everything came out in quite lurid detail about three forum discussions ago before this current discussion board.  One person a F**** L***** gave a full account of ASW actually molesting him and kissing him and this resulted in FL telling his wife and consequently they both immediately left the CAI... However through the efforts of CAI and their  lawyers, much has been lost through subsequent closures of each forum discussion board... Every time when truth came to light on some delicate discussin, in came the CAI wolves with their lawyers. I can send you a copy of a letter from FL that highlights the problems had in dealing with ASW if you like.

anon 

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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:02/01/2006 7:27 PMCopy HTML

Hi anon

yes I am interested in that letter. Thank you!

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2nd Corinthians,chapter 3,17
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:03/01/2006 7:21 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : jsc1215

Sex between a man and his wife is not sin, and was created by God not just for procreation...but to be enjoyed.
i am curious as to know if other forms of sex between a marrried  man and his wife are ok (oral, greek, use of toys,  etc)  
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:03/01/2006 9:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Freelady

Hi anonyes I am interested in that letter. Thank you!
..... need an email addy.... Do uou have an anonymous web based email account such as yahoo or hotmail??
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:03/01/2006 12:49 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : FreeladyHi anon,do u know more about what happened in these nights? I have also heard about it, that something like this had taken place but I don? know specificall what they were about, what was done there.Everything came out in quite lurid detail about three forum discussions ago before this currentdiscussion board. One person a F**** L***** gave a full account of ASW actually molesting him and kissing him and this resulted in FL telling his wife and consequently they both immediately left the CAI... However through the efforts of CAI and their lawyers, much has been lost through subsequent closures of each forum discussion board... Every time when truth came to light on some delicate discussin, in came the CAI wolves with their lawyers.
POST THE LETTER HERE.  THIS FORUM WILL NOT BE CLOSED AS THE MODERATOR IS ANONYMOUS.
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:03/01/2006 8:20 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : FreeladyHi anonyes I am interested in that letter. Thank you!..... need an email addy.... Do uou have an anonymous web based email account such as yahoo or hotmail??

I don? have yahoo or hotmail but you can send it to this adress: w_barbara@gmx.at

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2nd Corinthians,chapter 3,17
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Re:Is enjoying sex a sin?

Date Posted:29/06/2011 3:35 AMCopy HTML

 God bless everyone, be good.

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
RCI prophesies
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