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Date Posted:05/02/2005 3:27 PMCopy HTML

Is Your Revival Centre a 'Cult?'

Adapted from Identifying a Cult by Jan Groenveld - Compiled by Troy Waller

If you tell a Revivalist that their group is a cult, they often reply with something along the lines of, "The Church of the apostles' day was also called a cult!" or "Jesus was called a cult leader too!" Some have heard RCI and Geelong Revival Centre pastors say something along these lines numerous times. It seems that some Revivalists think that to call the Revival Centres a cult is to align them with Jesus and the early Church.

On the other hand, some Revivalists take great offence and get most upset when you call their church a cult. They think that we are accusing them of all sorts of crimes, simply by calling them a cult. So why do we get such varied reactions when we label the Revival Centres groups as cults?

It all has to do with definitions. You see, the word ?cult', as with a lot of English words today, has a few different meanings. The word can be used in various ways in various contexts. There are three major definitions.What is a Cult?1. The Secular DefinitionCULT- From the Latin "cultis" which denotes all that is involved in worship, ritual, emotion, liturgy and attitude. This definition is not concerned with specific doctrines or behaviours but actually denotes what we call denominations and sects.

By this definition, all religious movements are cults. This is the definition that can be applied to the early Church and Jesus as its leader. Obviously this website is not concerned with the Revival Centres as denominations or sects.

2. Christian DefinitionCULT- Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. That is they deny things such as the Trinity, or Deity of Christ. Some deny Jesus' physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth or salvation by FAITH alone. This definition is concerned with the beliefs of specific groups and not so much with behaviour. This definition only covers those groups which defined as cultsdoctrinallyfrom the perspective of the Christian Church. This includes the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. This term does not refer to other world religions such as Islam and Hinduism. We do define the Revival Centres as a cult from this perspective as they have a different view from historical Christianity on issues such as salvation and the Trinity.

3. The Modern DefinitionCULT- Any group which has a hierarchical authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use behavioural, information, thought and emotional control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition is concerned primarily with thebehaviourof the group in question. It covers cults within all major world religions, along with those cults which have noobviousreligious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults. Different cults operate in different ways. For example, some are more prone to information control than emotional control or vice versa. Some cults are less extreme than others in some areas of control but these are still cults nonetheless.This website does present the RCI and its splinter groups as this kind of cult. Let's expand on this definition and see how the Revival Centres fit or don't fit this model.

Identification Marks of a Cult

(a) The group will have an elitist view of itself in relation to others, and a unique cause. (THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy. )

(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.They do this through the following means,Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.The Revival Centres believe that the Church at large (Pentecostal or otherwise) has fallen into apostasy. They openly teach that the 'truth' about salvation was re-discovered by Lloyd Longfield or Noel Hollins, (depending on which Revival Centre group you belong to) just after the World War II.

They now believe that they promote the true formula for salvation (Acts2:38as they interpret it) and those that preach salvation by faith alone are apostate. They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.The Revival Centres leaders will rarely come out and say that their church is the only true church. But this is very much implied and members know that to leave the Revival Centre is to lose your salvation. Much is said in talks from the platform and in official literature which denigrates and disparages other churches, even those that believe in speaking in tongues.

They will even question the salvation of those who leave one Revival Centre splinter group for another, even though they all preach the same salvation formula. The Geelong Revival Centre members are even told that other Revival Centre groups preach a different salvation message to them. This is a blatant lie, as they all teach the same salvation formula.They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc.As mentioned earlier, all Revival Centre members know that to leave the Revival Centres is to lose your salvation and go to hell. Even people who leave to attend other Pentecostal Churches are said to have 'fallen away'.

The Revival Centre preoccupation with Armageddon and nuclear devastation rivals only the Jehovah's Witnesses' use of the ?imminent return of Jesus and destruction of the world' as a means to promote fear and maintain members. Some ex-members of the Revival Centres report having had terrifying nightmares of nuclear holocaust while in the group and after leaving.

The Revival Centres spread half truths and lies about those who have left even saying ex-members fall gravely ill and die. One ex-member said that he heard a pastor pronounce this upon people who had just left the church. Stories of those who fall into addictions and immoral behaviour (true or not) upon leaving the group are also lauded in front of those still in the group.

Shunning is also a common experience for those who leave. Current members are expected to discontinue relationships with ex-members. Both the RCI and RF make their position clear,MARK THEM -identify those who cause divisions and offences. The most obvious are former members who left over personal grievances. Their doctrine and practice are not what we have learned from our Bibles. Identify them - don't be sentimental about old fellowships. (Separation- The Revival Fellowship)16. Any member who has been "disciplined" by the oversight should not be "comforted" by well-meaning friends. This can encourage rebellion and could result in disaster for those concerned. Any member who has been permanently or temporarily "de-barred" from fellowship should not be visited without permission from the oversight. It is most important that their "case" should not be discussed with them or with others. If and when such action is taken, the Assembly will be officially advised of the reason for such measures.

(RCI Assembly Guidelines) Many an ex-Revival Centre member can tell you stories of having to shun those who left before them and then being shunned when they themselves left. Some are even shunned by family members. One ex-member even reported being ex-communicated herself after a former member's car was seen in her driveway by a 'spying' member of the oversight.

Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their "ministry". At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don't do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money. The Revival Centres are staunch tithers. However in fairness to them, they do not usually expect their members to contribute over and above this tithe except in some circumstances such as a fund raising drives for a new project (such as the RCI purchase of the Freshwater Creek Camp inVictoria). They do not force their members to sell books, etc. outside of the church, but there have been some reports of heavy handed tactics over money in the CAI.

There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group's activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the thought control process.

In this way the Revival Centres are not as severe as groups like the Moonies or Hare Krishna. However, the RCI do expect people to attend 2 Sunday meetings, 1 weekly house meeting or mid-week meeting, weekly young people's meetings (if at an appropriate age or unmarried) and any outreaches or special events. Some Revival Centre groups have a heavier schedule again. These meetings are forced upon members and are not optional.

Unknown to most members, lower level RCI leaders even take a roll to check who is and is not in attendance. Missing members are then sometimes questioned as to why they are skipping meetings. Christmas and Easter camps are also usually compulsory unless an adequate reason for not being able to attend is given. This busy schedule leaves little time for meaningful relationships outside the group and brings members deeper into the group dynamic.There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on "how to be a true Christian" or "being obedient to leadership". Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.

The Revival Centres have a list of writtenAssembly Guidelines (i.e. RULES!) that members are expected to strictly adhere to. The preamble to the RCI list states,The following guidelines are for the protection of individuals and the assembly as a whole... ...All policies are international and are not subject to local change or variation.The list contains rules covering things such as private gatherings of members (not allowed without permission from leaders), marriage (again, permission is needed) and the repression of critical comments. The full list can be foundhere.A quick read of these rules demonstrates the invasiveness of the Revival Centres groups into the lives of their members. This behaviour by the groups undermines the individual's personal freedom and eventually their ability to make even simple decisions for themselves.

Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.The Revival Centres members like to point the finger at the clergy/laity distinction of other churches, especially the Catholic Church, whilst claiming that their leaders are just ?normal people'. However, every single Revivalist knows that the 'oversight' are much more than ?normal members'. Members areforcedto address pastors as Pastor (e.g. Pastor Bill) and never by their first name alone and, as mentioned, have enormous power over regular members. They do pay some ministers a wage. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.

Anyone who has been in the Revival Centres for even a few months knows that criticism and dissention is not tolerated in the slightest. Numerous stories have been reported by ex-members of the harsh and often emotionally damaging ways that the pastors and oversight have treated people who have crossed this line. The guidelines mentioned earlier make the Revival Centres position quite clear:

5. Members should not enter into any conversation criticising doctrines, practices or beliefs held by the assembly. Again, Pastors and Elders are ready to discuss any such problems that may arise.

10. Any case of disloyalty towards the Assembly or spreading of any discord whatsoever will be viewed as "divisionary" and dealt with severely.

24. Members must not enter into any controversy or criticisms of the beliefs or practices of other persons in other Assemblies. Any "different" teachings should be reported to the home Pastor who can communicate with other Pastors if necessary.You cannot question Revival Centre doctrine as a member.

If the Revival Centres have declared something as true then you must accept it wholeheartedly or be prepared to be 'dealt with severely'. Once the pastor or elder has discussed the matter with you then the matter is closed whether you accept their explanation or not.

Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of "dobbing" on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their "spiritual welfare". They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.

Members of the Revival Centres are encouraged to report any violation of policy or practice by other members to the leaders immediately. This is under the guise of "caring for brothers and sisters". Husbands, wives and even children are encouraged to report on each other. We have had no reports of deliberate lying being encouraged, but I was present in a Young People's meeting where we were trained to give our public testimony. In this talk, the oversight member instructed us to leave out any undesirable information about church life such as ex-communication, people leaving to go to other churches or personal struggle with 'sin'.Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a "covenant" and feel threatened by this.

Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group. Put simply, there is no good way to leave the Revival Centres. There is no valid reason to leave from the perspective of the leadership. When individuals leave they are disparaged, sometimes publicly, by leaders. Half-truths and rumours are spread amongst the members to discredit those who leave. The organisation is never at fault in minor or major parting of ways, it is always the fault of those who have left. Noel Hollins said that he parted ways with the RCI as they 'no longer wanted to follow the Lord' and Lloyd Longfield said that the 'Spirit is weak' in the Revival Fellowships. Members have reported a heavy handed approach from leaders who were attempting to deter them from leaving the group.

Conclusion

This article has not tried to manipulate the facts to make the Revival Centres fit the pattern of a destructive cult. It didn't need to. Anyone who has been involved with a Revival Centre for even a short while can testify to seeing many, if not all, of the things discussed here. Sure, not all these points will be found in every Revival Centre group. But all Revival Centre groups will have some, if not most of them, and these may vary to some degree. And pointing out these marks in other groups doesn't make the Revival Centres any less a cult. It only means there are other groups out there warranting a similar investigation. But most churches don't exhibit enough of these signs to be labelled a cult as we labelled the Revival Centres in this article.

So, is your Revival Centre a cult?

Copyright 2003. Troy Waller. Original article, 'Identifying a Cult'
Copyright 1985, 1995. Jan Groenveld.
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:15/10/2005 12:44 AMCopy HTML

Behavior Control:

    1. Regulation of individual?s physical reality

    Members are expected to dress conservatively...no short skirts, no tight jeans, no tattoos, men are not allowed to wear earrings...Contact with ex-members is forbidden...Members are encouraged to break contact with any "unsavoury" friends...The group comes before family...They own camping grounds which members are encouraged to go to on vacation...If members go interstate or overseas it is expected that they will stay with other members & continue going to meetings...There are 5 meetings a week (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday & 2 on Sunday), there are activities organised for Saturdays & a compulsory youth group for single people under 30's...Thursday is set aside for a coffee morning & door knocking, which everyone is expected to attend at least once a month...Failure to attend at least 3 meetings a week plus the activities on Saturday results in a visit from the "middle management" ie. houseleaders or newer Pastors who reports back to the leadership...Public image! ! is everything...single men cannot have female housemates & vice versa, members are not allowed to go into pubs (not even to get a meal), those having sex outside of marriage are forced to marry or are expelled from the group...

    2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

    New members are "taken in" by older members who live near by them & escorted to all group activities... Members are encouraged to "pray" with the leadership for long periods until they "receive" ie. start speaking in tongues...New member meetings are offered & attendance is strongly "encouraged"...

    3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

    All major decisions have to be approved by the pastors...This includes legal decisions...Pastors have been known to intervene in custody battles & go against custody orders ie. encouraging the member to deny access visits to the non-member parent...Abused women are often ordered back to their husbands, divorce is forbidden, the partner filing for divorce is promptly removed from the group...

    4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

    The pastor's door is always open...Members are encouraged to "discuss" all their feelings with the leadership...Withholding information is considered the same as lying to God...

    5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques - positive and negative)

    Disobeying the Pastors or "sinning" in any way is punishable by expulsion from the group or being banned from attending any fun activities eg. group picnics etc...I have witnessed a Pastor intervening in the discipline if a member's child...Telling the child they are evil & of the devil because they are misbehaving...All youth group members are given a curfew of midnight regardless of age, anyone caught out after this time is disciplined as the the leadership sees fit...

    6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

    No expression of doubt or negative feelings/thoughts about the group is tolerated...It is considered divisionary...Members must present a united front...

    7. Rigid rules and regulations

    There are enforced "guidelines" which are changed at the whim of the leadership...No-one ever knows all the rules...disobeying them leads to immediate disciplinary action & carries with it the threat of expulsion from the group...

    8. Need for obedience and dependency.

    Disobeying the leadership is like disobeying god...dependence is encouraged, several biblical passages are used to illustrate that truly godly people should "give over" to those who know best ie. the leadership...

Information Control:

    1. Use of deception

    The full history of the British Israel Theory is not made known to group members...Members are not made aware of recent research into Bible numerics...Sexual education is withheld & discouraged...Appalling Greek, Hebrew & Latin translations ie. highly inaccurate...Crime statistics exaggerated to make group seem safer & to support their "end times" theories...Claiming miraculous cures for asymptomatic conditions such as AIDS...Stories made up about ex-members to support the belief that life is "sevenfold" bad for you if you leave the group...Rumours are circulated about members who are questioning too much...

    2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

    Members have to check with pastors before they buy a book on religious theory or go to see a movie...Members are discouraged from watching TV or listening to rock music...Members are advised what books to buy & are provided with tapes of previous "talks" & "appropriate" music...Contact with ex-members forbidden, members kept busy...Recently a ban on internet access has been instituted due to the amount of anti-RCI/Revival Fellowship material available...

    3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

    The leadership know's everything about everyone, almost nothing is known about the leaders...Information given out on a need to know basis...

    4. Spying on other members is encouraged

    Members are encouraged to "tell on" other members for their own spiritual good, so that they can be corrected...New members are paired up with older members who are in favour with the leadership...Due to the spying members are convinced that God is telling the leadership everything, therefore it is pointless not divulging every thought, feeling & action to the pastors...

    5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

    The group has a news letter, a magazine & various audio & video tapes which members are encouraged to buy & distribute amongst prospective recruits...

    6. Unethical use of confession

    Threats to divulge information about past "sins" to other members are used to keep people "in-line"...

Thought Control:

    1. Need to internalize the group?s doctrine as "Truth"

    The RCI is the one true church...Us vs Them mentality, the outside world is considered a dangerous place & the people in it agents of the devil...RCI members are considered elite, they call themselves "saints"...There are no "grey areas" everything is either good or bad, there are no in betweens, no excuses...A common phrase used by members is: "if you are not with us you are against us"...

    2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clich?")

    Non-members often need a translator to understand what RCI members are saying...Certain phrases are meant to elicit certain responses...

    3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged

    Any "impure" thoughts are said to be the devil creeping in...If this is occurring the individual is encouraged to pray (in tongues) on it, talk to the Pastors & devote more time to the group...

    4. Thought-stopping techniques

    It is common to hear current members justify the leadership's actions & aggressively defend them...Members are encouraged to "speak in tongues" often & for long periods, especially when they are having doubts...

    5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

    Critical questions are greeted with hostility or the questioner is patronised & told not to worry about it..If it continues the faith of the questioner is brought into question & they are told to go read their Bible because that is where they will find the answers to all their questions...Too much questioning leads to a "smear campaign" by the Pastors & eventual expulsion from the group...

    6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

    Alternative belief systems are ridiculed regularly at meetings...Anti-Catholic sentiment prevails..

Emotional Control:

    1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person?s feelings

    Individual only allowed to feel happy...sadness or anger is dismissed or ridiculed...

    2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader?s or the group's.

    If a member is not satisfied in the group it is said that their faith is not strong enough or that they are not doing enough for the group or God...

    3. Excessive use of guilt

    Members are made to feel guilty if they are not "perfect", if they have not yet converted their family, if they wish to associate with people outside the group, if they believe they are returning to their "old ways"...RCI absolves members of any "historical guilt" because they believe they are seperate from the Christian church that went before them...

    4. Excessive use of fear

    Members are made to fear the "world" because it is supposedly dangerous & full of temptation...Anyone not in support of the RCI is considered to be an agent of the devil, a huge number of "sins" & leaving the group can lead to loss of salvation...Members fear not having the pastors' approval, all their actions are governed by this fear...Members are well aware that if they leave the group they will lose their entire social network...

    5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

    Meetings are always upbeat, lots of singing & rhythmic clapping...The "talks" are generally depressing & re-inforce the idea that the "world" is an evil, horrible place & that those who want to return to it must be mad...

    6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

    It is expected that all "sins" will be confessed to the Pastors....Forgiveness by God is all important, the only way to gain this is by acknowledging your "sins" & confessing them to the Pastors...They will make deals with you eg. "If you marry now you can stay in the group & gain forgiveness. If not I'm afraid you will have to leave & I won't be able to guarantee your forgiveness"...

    7. Phobia indoctrination

    Leaving the group is said to be turning your back on God, therefore everything will be "sevenfold bad for you"...Those leaving are said to have been weak & seduced by the "world"...It is expected these people will become drug addicts, insane, chronically ill or die...The Pastors are always ready with a story to prove their point...It is also said that once leaving you will be empty & unspiritual, you will never find fullfillment...

the author is spot on - some of you would have already read this, do you agree

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:14/11/2005 6:35 PMCopy HTML

The geelong revival centre what does it mean? Is it a cult? Yes it is, how do i know? Because i was there for 18 years!!!  First we must define what is a cult?  A cult is a system that controls  & manipulates it's members by FEAR, SHAME & GUILT.  The GRC is expert at this.  Mr Hollins, who thinks he is working in the name of GOD is in actual fact working in the name of HIMSELF!!! In his defence he thinks that he is doing the Lord 's work, but in actual fact he is a meglomaniac.  How can i make this statement?  By the fact that he preaches that his way is the only way into the Kingdom of God.  He preaches that all other christian religions are backsliden and damned to hell, this in itself proves that he is of a cult mentality.  Any group or organisation that preaches this has a CULT mentality.  This is a dangerous & destructive philosophy!  Some of their other doctrines include, ostracising ex members, no shifting from one city to another, must attend all meetings, no open forum to discuss scriptural interpretation, no associations outside the church enviroment, cannot visit another assembly unless permission is given by Mr Hollins.  Cannot partake of the drinking of wine at all in contradiction of the scriptures, all literature must be vetted by Mr Hollins before anything can be discussed in general fellowship.  Mr Hollins view on fellowship is that no more than 6 may join together under any circumstances unless prior approval is given by him.  So is this the sign of the "One true church" i don't think so!!!  So in conclusion what am i trying to say? BE AWARE!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a sign of anything that relates to the true teaching of Christ.  Jesus spoke of "The power and healing of God, was this evident within the GRC?  I can say first hand this was not.  Were there people in wheelchairs?  There certainly was.  Were they healed ? They were not.  Where was the power of God? It certainly was not with the GRC. So what am i trying to say?  BE AWARE!!!  They are a cult.  Anyone who gets approached by anyone from the GRC think very carefully before you decide to submit to what they say is the ONLY true church of christ on this earth.  If you want further information about this organisation i am very happy to respond to any questions you may have. 

So there you go do I sound bitter? I guess to some they may say I do but in actual fact I've moved on and my life is doing just fine, better than expected considering I was always told that my life would get 7 times worse.  I don't hate Hollins and there were great times I had in the centre that I've taken with me for the betterment of my life and others too i guess. So I guess the best form of revenge is to live a good life and that I am doing.  Great friends, family, loved ones, I've got my health, a great job, what more can you ask??  So the lesson learnt is that anyone can get caught by a cult no matter what their social status may be or what circumstances they might find themselves in.  The book that helped me understand the concept of cults is called "combatting cult mind control" by Steven Hassan, it's a great read and for new ex members I think it's a must.  For more info or just a chat please don't hesitate to message me back, cheers.

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/05/2006 4:41 PMCopy HTML

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What is a Revival Church?

Typically, the Revival churches mentioned on this forum include all branches of the Revival 'family tree', although the various churches of the 'tree' do not recognise or talk to each other. They include 'The Revival Fellowship, The Revival Centres International, the Geelong Revival Centre, The Christian Assemblies International, and the many offshoots that carry the 'Revival' doctrine on with them.

In the 1940s ex AOG pastors led by Leo C. Harris, was convinced of the British Israel theory and formed the National Revival Crusade. They believed modern nations of British decent should realise their 'Israelite identity'. They also believe that the belief in Jesus, alongside of the 'Holy Spirit' experience of 'speaking in tongues' (ecstatic speech - glossolalia) was essential to be 'Christian' and a member of their church. Baptism by full immersion into water was also mandatory.

Noel Hollins and Lloyd Longfield (neither trained in theology or ministry) rose through the ranks as the church evolved into the 'Revival Centres of Australia'. They believe themselves to be the only 'true' church and all others are 'apostate'. More HERE


Being a Revivalist

In the main, Revival Churches share the following beliefs with slight variations between them:

Salvation rules

- All members must exercise free vocalisation (speaking in tongues), a new 'language' of random morphemes that only God understands.
- All members must read a creed of beliefs before being fully immersed into a 'baptismal tank'.
- Revivalists believe that once someone is saved, they are always saved, but if Jesus returns and finds them 'slacking', they might not 'make it'.

Assembly rules and doctrines

- Members must only marry other church members
- Members are not allowed to read the material of other churches
- Members discovered to have had sex outside of marriage are ex-communicated, or banned for six months, or made to marry.
- Divorce is unacceptable under any condition
- Women are not allowed to deliver talks (sermons)
- Members are not allowed to drink alcohol of any sort.
- 10%, at least, of members' incomes are encouraged to be donated weekly.
- Members can be excommunicated for varying amounts of time for breaking various rules.
- The shunning of ex-members is encouraged.
- Easter and Christmas are not to be celebrated with any religious connection.

Revival Centre meetings

- Generally meetings are held Wednesday and twice Sunday, house-meetings on Friday, and all compulsory.
- Meetings start with a half hour of religious choruses (short ditties), 2 or 3 testimonies, and a 45 minute talk
- The second half of the meeting contains the
eating and drinking of the 'communal' body and blood of Christ, after another 'talk'.
- Youth group on Saturday nights - compulsory.
- Regular 'fasting' - Members go without eating for up to 3 days culminating with a 5 hour meeting of sermons and tongue speaking sessions.


Other Revival beliefs

- British Israelism - Europeans are believed to be descendants of the 'lost ten tribes of Israel'.
- Bible Numerics - the mathematics of bible words to prove their doctrine and the bible.
- The very 'soon' destruction of the earth when Jesus returns to set up his new kingdom.
- The Great Pyramid is a prophetic device foretelling the soon return of Jesus.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:31/07/2006 7:13 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Mr J

Reply to : AnonymousAnyone want to discuss how this relates to the GRC groups?I guess not.

Well you start then, tell us about your one time experience when you went to the Norlane GRC hall for some research. What was it like for you? What did you think when you met Noal? Did he freak you out a bit? Most are! lol

cheers

RB

A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall. Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:31/07/2006 10:37 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Revivals Blood

Reply to : Mr JReply to : AnonymousAnyone want to discuss how this relates to the GRC groups?I guess not.Well you start then, tell us about your one time experience when you went to the Norlane GRC hall for some research. What was it like for you? What did you think when you met Noal? Did he freak you out a bit? Most are! lolcheersRB

I think I have told this story on here before.  But ok, here goes...

Firstly, I expect most of u ex-GRC people on this board would have been there the time I went as it was WAY back in 1994.  So that means, when I visited, you guys were all NHH devotees. 

I had been asked to go to Geelong as the assistant pastor/youth pastor of the AOG.  Kind of like an apprenticeship, but for religious nuts.  I had well and truly started my research at that stage and was aby then planning to write a book.  It was to be an expose' on the history and changes in doctrine etc.  This was well before the internet came along and I changed it all into a website.  Back then I used to tell myself that all the money I was spending on research would be recovered thru book sales.  Then the internet came along and threw all that out the window.  Now you all get the fruits of my labour (and others of course) for free!  Anyway, I digress...

So i had already called Noel and asked him for an interview.  I told him I was writing a book on Pentecostal history in Australia and that I wanted to get info on the history of his group and also what they believe etc.  All that was true enough so I hadn't lied to him.  (Of course, once there I would have asked for his side of the splits he had been involved in.)  He told me he had nothing to say and declined the interview.

Ok, so my next avenue was a visit to his hall in Norlane.  I had seen the sign outside his hall and so knew the times and such.  I knew that if I went along and said who I was and what I was up to, I wouldnt have gotten very far.  So I just went along and walked in.  I was stopped at the door and given 'the third degree' as to why I was there.  I thought this was weird as it was hardly 'welcoming' to new people.  Now this is WAY before they had any bad press so it just shows how paranoid and controlling they were even back then.  I told them I was interested in religion and was keen to see what they were about and such.  The door guy led me over to who I think was some kind of youngies leader.  I may be mistaken, but that's the way I recall it now.  Anyway, he asked me a few questions and I answered him without lying but without giving more information than he asked for.  He asked me if I went to Church and I told him I went to the AOG, etc.  Anyway, I sat through the meeting and I guess I wasn't as freaked out by the meeting as most new people were and my lack of this made him somewhat suspicious of me as I later found out ...but more on that later.

The meeting was typical RCI style.  Boring and devoid of meaning.  Then Noel told everyone to 'seek the Lord' and the members all got on their knees and started speaking in tongues.  Now this WAS suprising as the RCI made it a HUGE point to never all speak in tongues at once in the presence of new people "lest they think you are all mad" or whatever the verse in Corinthians says.  So while this was going on, the guy I was sitting with took me up to Noel.  He led me to Noel, introduced me and then kind of drifted back like a servant in the royal court.  Noel started to talk to me...rather AT me.  He had one FREAKY EYE that didn't quite look at you when he was talking to you.  And I thought he was one of the creepiest dudes I had seen in a long time.  He was the EXACT OPPOSITE of Longfield.  HE was creepy and lacked any kind of charisma.  The thought that came to me at the time was that he looked like the host of some kind of horror TV show.  You know, like the Crypt Keeper or something?  Very strange looking dude.  As I said, this spun me out as I was really expecting him to be way more charismatic than he was.  So as I had an agenda, I said that I had seen his 'other' church down on the Bellarine Highway.  Of course this was the RCI church and i knew damn well that it wasnt his at all.  He then said that that Church had nothing to do with him.  I asked him why then did they share the same unique name, 'Revival Centre'?  He then said with a creepy smile, "What's in a name?" which struck me as a really weird thing to say.  I didn't want to let it go so I said something like, "Sure, but you have to admit that's a pretty unique name for two churches in such a small town to have."  He then ssaid, "Well, they were once part of us but they didn't want to follow the Lord!"  He must have then gotten pissed off with my line of questioning as he said something like, "Troy, do you want to seek the Lord HERE tonight?" or something like that.  I told him I wanted more time to check them out.  He then got up and just walked away.  And that was the one and only time I talked to Noel Hollins.

Anyway, the story doesn't end there.

With everyone still speaking in tongues, Noel went to the mic and gave it two or three very light taps.  Hardly audible.  And to my surprise, THE WHOLE CONGREGATION STOPPED SPEAKING IN TONGUES AND ALL GOT UP AND SAT ON THEIR SEATS.  That was the most impressive thing I had ever (and still have ever) seen anyone do with a crowd of people.  He just tapped the mic...he didn't speak, he didn't make a hand gesture.  AND THE WHOLE HALL FULL OF PEOPLE KNEW HOW TO RESPOND AND DID SO QUICKLY.  You wanna talk about freaky?  That was freaky.

The guy who had taken me to Noel reappeared and walked me to the back of the hall.  I was ready to go and told him so.  He then walked me out to the carpark.  I dunno why I did this, but as I reached the carpark I told him I was the new youth pastor of the Pentecostal church, the Geelong AOG.  He then went mental.  He raised his voice and said, "I KNEW YOU WERE SPIRIT-FILLED.  YOU ARE A BLIND LEADER OF THE BLIND, A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING!!!!" and some other spiritual insults.  I told him he was in a cult, shook my head and walked away.  OF course the irony of what he said struck me almost right away.  On the one hand he 'knew' I was 'spirit-filled" which means I apparently had God's Holy Spirit within me but then he called me every name in the Bible reserved for the enemies of God.  Funny that huh?  But of course, what he really sensed was my lack of surprise at the goings on in the meeting, especially at the tongues, etc.  I am sure I also asked too many informed questions.

So that was my visit to Noel's church.

Ask nicely and I'll tell you about the time I went to Ted Owen's church.

Glad-to be out Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:18/08/2006 8:55 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Te Luo Yi - aka Mr J      The question of how the GRC Pty Ltd treated the poor souls who had the audacity to step out of line made me think of one of my favourite hymns. (from my previous life, I must ad. ) 685 from the blue hymn book!!!   The chorus goes,

Rescue the perishing, care for the dying;

Jesus is merciful, Jesus will save.    and then part of verse 3

Touched by a loving hand,

Wakened by kindness.

Now, my question to NHH and the"Saints" is, "Where did your humanity go when you were dealing with people who questioned the various doctrines and were finally put out of fellowship?"

From "the platform" we were told that "so & so" had been put out of fellowship and they were not to be contacted or comforted in any way shape or form. We were usually not told what "serious" transgression they were responsible for, that warranted such harsh treatment. So we blindly accecpted that NHH our God on earth was infallible and we were guilty of helping him to carry out  a most cruel and harsh penalty on a poor brother or sister. I remember one sister who always tried her hardest to please, was constantly on his list of "Lets chuck her out again and twist the knife a bit to see her squeal." I went to visit her to give her some support and because we had been brainwashed by the master, she cried and said that "For my own good, I shouldn't be there." She was right of course because if he knew I had spoken to her and heard her side of the story, he would have put me out as well.

Any information about the transgression was to be sought from "the Platform" (talking planks, what next!?) and we were not to resort to speaking about it amongst ourselves.  Once again the rules of a cult do not just stand alone, and this was a blatant attempt at controlling information.

This one aspect of Hollins group is the one that personally causes me the most grief, even to this day, because after leaving the fellowship myself as a "walk out" I know the utter desolation that those poor souls were subjected to, probably because they had the courage to question the KING OF FOOLS. 

If you gave your life over totally to the LORD, i.e. Hollins and the GRC, then there was nothing to question, BUT, if you had a conscience, eventually it got the better of you and you NEEDED answers to certains methods and conduct within the GRC.

The teachings and doctrines of the GRC Pty Ltd are so far removed from the reality that is life in 2006. If you can imagine a ruler, 24cms long, when we went into the GRC we functioned at about 1cm. Over the years, our sense of reality gradually shifted so that we now functioned at about 18cms. Every piece of information and new knowledge was filtered through our warped sense of reality at 18cms so that it also became slightly out of wack with the reality that is today. 

There is no HONOUR or TRUST within the GRC as everyone is encouraged to betray one another to the oversight, therefore, only superficial relationships can form within the confines of the GRC because NO-ONE can be their true SELF. This alone breeds more problems, because to deny "THE SELF" causes mental, spiritual and even physical problems if "THE SELF" is denied for any length of time.

TO BE TRUE TO ONE'S "SELF" IS ONE OF THE GREATEST JOYS  A HUMAN BEING CAN EXPERIENCE AND THE GRC PTY LTD IS ALL ABOUT DENYING AND CRUSHING "THE SELF". MOLDING AND MANIPULATING "IT" INTO A FORM THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO NHH. UNQUESTIONING OBEDIENCE AND SUBMISSION, GIVING OVER TO THE SELF APPOINTED AUTHORITY OF THE OVERSITE ALL HELPS TO DESTROY "THE SELF" AND LETS LOOSE THE PANDORA'S BOX OF AFFLICTIONS AND MANIAS THAT GOES HAND IN HAND WITH THAT DESTRUCTION.

COME ON GUYS, WAKE UP AND BE TRUE TO YOUR "SELF", LIFE IS NOT A REHERSAL AND YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SO MUCH ALREADY.


  1. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.

Anyone who has been in the Revival Centres for even a few months knows that criticism and dissention is not tolerated in the slightest.  Numerous stories have been reported by ex-members of the harsh and often emotionally damaging ways that the pastors and oversight have treated people who have crossed this line.

 

 


"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:18/08/2006 2:10 PMCopy HTML

The thing is, members of the GRC are expected to submit to leaders above them and then those leaders to leaders above them, and all the way up the pyramid until you get to Noddy himself.  But one is left with this question, "To whom does NHH submit?"

Well of course the obvious answer is Noel submits to God.  But why does he get this direct access to God and the rank and file member does not?  Doesn't the Holy Bible say, "There is one mediator between God and nan, the man Christ Jesus"?  Shouldn't all members of the GRC get to submit directly to God and skip human authority? 

And if not, then what makes NHH so special that he, unlike others, doesn't have to submit to someone on earth?  He used to submit, at least in part, to Lloyd Longfield and DEFINTIELY once submitted entirely to Leo Harris (head of the then NRC).  But he stopped doing that didn't he?  What gave him the right to defy those in authority above him?  Is NHH a special breed of man?  Is he another Jesus?  Did the verses he now uses to force people to comply to his authority somehow not apply to him when he was under the authoruty of others?  It would appear so.  So what then is to stop those verses applying to me or you also?

But every GRC person KNOWS that Noel stopped submitting to those men when they stopped following the Bible right?.  Noel had no choice but to go it alone right?  Well actually, no! 

When Noel and Lloyd left the CRC in 1958, it had nothing to do with doctrine.  It was because they felt their autonomy as leaders was being threatened.  In other words, those in authority over them got too 'controlling'.  And then when Noel left the RCA (later RCI) in 1972 it was because he felt Lloyd Longfield was too invasive in the affairs of the Geelong (Noel's) assembly.  In other words, the very excuse that Lloyd and Noel used to reject the CRC authority was used by Noel to reject the RCI authority.  Niehter of these rejections of authority by Noel had ANYTHING to do with doctrine (The split in 1952 did...but not the later ones).

So what we see in NHH is a man who jumps ship at the first sign of anyone trying to control him, but who has spent almost his entire life forcing control over others.  In other words, Noel is a flaming great...

HYPOCRITE!!!

So if you want to trace his authority as a pastor, or as a man of God then look no further than this.  The man is a wolf!

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:17/01/2007 5:51 AMCopy HTML

If you are/were a member of the GRC, you would probably have heard Mr. Hollins refer to many people down through the centuries, as examples of people who had a genuine zeal for God.  He would talk about several people such as Winston Churchill, as being 'saved' even though they had nothing to do with Pentecostal churches.  I always felt confused whenever Mr. Hollins spoke about 'saved people' before GRC times.  According to Mr. Hollins, all other Pentecostal Churches are 'backslidden' and people who go there are damned.  When you think about it all, you soon realise that Mr. Hollins contradicts himself.  Mr. Hollins as also made claim that none of these other Pentecostal churches would exist if it wasn't for his ministry.

Think about this.

The founder of the Christian Revival Crusade, Mr. Leo Harris, established the most significant Pentecostal movement in Australia and New Zealand throughout the 1940's and 1950's.  

In the late 1950's, Mr. Hollins and Mr. Longfield were brothers in arms and disagreed with Mr. Leo Harris, and eventually went separate ways.  Naturally, the people under the ministry of the new 'Revival Centres Australia' were all going to be saved, and those who stayed with the 'Crusaders' became 'backsliders'.

 In the early 1970's, a small percentage of 'Revival Centres Australia' broke away from the main group.  Mr. Hollins lead the rebellion and convinced the people in the GRC that all who belonged to RCA have become 'backsliders' and were now all going to go to hell.  Mr. Hollins made GRC hate all the other Pentecostals, especially the newest group of 'backsliders'.

It is very easy to conclude that the Revivalists only manufacture 'backsliders'.  If you think you need to attend a Revival Centre to get to heaven then check out the habitual pattern throughout history of the Revivalists. 

If you can't make it on your own, you sure as Hell won't qualify for Heaven by attending Revival Centres.  (ll Corinthians 6:17) 

The Conch Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:07/03/2007 8:35 PMCopy HTML

Mind Control - The BITE Model
Chew on this, GRCer's.

Text below is an objective set of criteria for identifying any group that is employing mind control techniques. To see the text below with better formatting and related web site info go to
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/articles/BITE.htm
From chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves*
*?2000 by Steven Hassan; published by Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville MA

Destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:
I. Behavior Control
II. Information Control
III. Thought Control
IV. Emotional Control

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

I. Behavior Control
1. Regulation of individual's physical reality
a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

7. Rigid rules and regulations

8. Need for obedience and dependency


II. Information Control
1. Use of deception
a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don't have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution


III. Thought Control
1. Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "Truth"
a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us v s. them (inside vs. outside)

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clich?"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful


IV. Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.

3. Excessive use of guilt
a. Identity guilt
1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions
b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt

4. Excessive use of fear
a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one's "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval

5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader's authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.
a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group's perspective, people who leave are: "weak;" "undisciplined;" "unspiritual;" "worldly;" "brainwashed by family, counselors;" seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.
There are so many dawns That have not yet broken
redrubberrat Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:26/03/2007 7:13 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



When the USA started to attack Iran will this be wars and rumours of wars?And if this is the case will Herbie use this invation to scare the culties into staying and fearing the end is near?I for one do not like the fact that Bush is a cultie. He believes that God told him to start WW3 that Jesus will return.If Bush were to visit Geelong I'm sure he would feal right at home at the GRC.This is a sad thing.





When I was in the cult there were war and he did us this to keep us on our knees and in fear.
But when you look at history you will find that there are few years in the past 2000 that there was not a war some where at some time. There will always be wars world war four will be fought with sticks and stones.

he's Ok He's all right
He"s Ok He"s All Right
Never too Late Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:31/01/2008 2:31 AMCopy HTML

'Guest' you are correct in what you say here to a certain degree.

-"Free people can say "no". Free people can refuse demands for their money, time, and children. Slaves cannot. There is no freedom without the freedom to say "no".-

 
This destructive mind controlling CULT are so manipulative that the word 'no' looses its strength as an ability to 'stop' or 'stand up' on its own without backlash or punishment from gthe CULT. Over time the word 'no' and 'freedom' are so far gone in ones head that the words are forgotten.  Therefore the GRC Pty Ltd have complete control and smothers 'freedom' like a scrub fire. You quickly become a 'SLAVE'.  Just the way NHH wants you and all his loyal followers. 

In ALL my experiences of the GRC Pty Ltd there is NO FREEDOM once inside the doors nor dare you say 'no' or your quickly labelled a rebel and either punished or in some cases dismissed from God church.   

-If someone demands that you do something and you can say "no" and refuse to do it, then you are a free human being. If you can be forced to do something or surrender something that you do not wish to, then you are a slave. No other test need be applied.-

Have you ever been in a situation or do you know of anyone in the GRC Pty Ltd CULT where they have sucessfully said the word 'no' and survived it.

This is a CULT where if the husband leaves the CULT and says 'no' to attending the CULT the oh so righteous ministry of NHH instruct the wife to leave the husband and not allow him to see his kid anymore.  

This is a CULT that labels a man for standing up for himself a rebel and a backslidder.  Resulting in exhile !

This is a CULT that if the member says 'no' to a meeting with ministry they can be suspended or booted out. 

This is a CULT filled with 'SLAVES' and there certainly is 'NO' Freedom left in the GRC Pty Ltd.

NHH how dare you even use the word 'church' or 'Lord' you are spineless and metally unstable. 

Set the down trodden free you manipulative, insecure, mind controlling, weak EVIL EVIL man.. 

N.T.L  

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:01/02/2008 5:04 AMCopy HTML




My life is my message..
  

The human voice can never reach the distance that is covered by the still small voice of conscience.

The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within.


Everyone who wills can hear the inner voice. It is within everyone.    


There are times when you have to obey a call which is the highest of all, i.e., the voice of conscience even though such obedience may cost many a bitter tear, and even more, separation from friends, from family, from the state to which you may belong, from all that you have held as dear as life itself. For this obedience is the law of our being.  


In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place.  


I do not want any patronage, as I do not give any. I am a lover of my own liberty, and so I would do nothing to restrict yours. I simply want to please my own conscience, which is God.


There is no principle worth the name if it is not wholly good.  


There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.


Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony.


Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.


A 'No' uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.


Action expresses priorities.


Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well.


Don't listen to friends when the Friend inside you says 'Do this.'


Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances.


Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning.


Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.


We must be the world we want to create.


Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.


The weak can never forgive.  Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong

As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be spritual. There is no such thing as spritual overriding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side.

An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind.


Non-cooperation is an attempt to awaken the masses, to a sense of their dignity and power. This can only be done by enabling them to realize that they need not fear brute force, if they would but know the soul within.


I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.


Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man.

 

Whenever I see an erring man, I say to myself I have also erred; when I see a lustful man I say to myself, so was I once; and in this way I feel kinship with everyone in the world and feel that I cannot be happy without the humblest of us being happy.


Before the throne of the Almighty, man will be judged not by his acts but by his intentions. For God alone reads our hearts.


Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart.


Everyone has faith in God though everyone does not know it. For everyone has faith in himself and that multiplied to the nth degree is God. The sum total of all that lives is God. We may not be God, but we are of God, even as a little drop of water is of the ocean.
 
Friendship that insists upon agreement on all matters is not worth the name. Friendship to be real must ever sustain the weight of honest differences, however sharp they be. 
 

I am prepared to die, but there is no cause for which I am prepared to kill.


If we want to cultivate a true spirit of democracy we cannot afford to be intolerant. Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause.


Ill-digested principles are, if anything, worse than ill-digested food, for the latter harms the body and there is cure for it, whereas the former ruins the soul and there is no cure for it.  


In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart.  


Is it not enough to know the evil to shun it? If not, we should be sincere enough to admit that we love evil too well to give it up.


Let no one say that he is a follower of ME. It is enough that I should be my own follower. I know what an inadequate follower I am of myself, for I cannot live up to the convictions I stand for. You are no followers but fellow students, fellow pilgrims, fellow seekers, fellow workers.


Non-violence is not a garment to be put on and off at will. Its seat is in the heart, and it must be an inseparable part of our being.

 

Non-violence, which is the quality of the heart, cannot come by an appeal to the brain.


My work will be finished if I succeed in carrying conviction to the human family, that every man or woman, however weak in body, is the guardian of his or her self-respect and liberty, and that this defense prevails, though the world be against the individual resister.


Non-cooperation is directed not against men but against measures. It is not directed against the Governors, but against the system they administer. The roots of non-cooperation lie not in hatred but in justice, if not in love.


Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as is cooperation with good.


We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?





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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 7:27 AMCopy HTML

Ask nicely and I'll tell you about the time I went to Ted Owen's church.

OMG you went there? Was I there? Larissa
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 8:03 AMCopy HTML

oh please tell me a ted owen story, its sure to be a laugh. I can recal a troy waller account of when he went to Croydon whilst investigating revival groups... he described Teddy as a real weirdo. I still can't believe that Noel had him as a Pastor, or did he simply stay on past his use by date. I have heard that after his wife passed on he tried to latch onto some female members?
Please Please tell me more about teddy.  

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 12:13 PMCopy HTML

have you heard the story of when he said he WAS god?
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 12:17 PMCopy HTML

to the best of what I know which probably isn’t much and please someone who does know correct me if I’m wrong, he was "incorrectly inappropriate" with a new woman, and put himself out of fellowship to "repent", went to Tassie and died. She was allowed back.

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 12:36 PMCopy HTML

I met Ted on many occasions during my youth and would have loved to have seen him before his death, he was a kind and caring man and even though he did wrong in the eyes of the "church" he went his way, alone, which he deserved so much more than.

He was a better pastor than what I had and deserves some respect!!!!
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:22/06/2010 1:16 PMCopy HTML

you obviously didnt go to croydon very often
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 12:09 AMCopy HTML

I think any Pastor in the cult needs to be taken in a different light.  They have to be "nice, caring'" but they are all Wolves in Sheeps clothing.  Evil and twisted. I was a Croydon Culty. Just as Ted left I joined frankly any Pastor that can do what they do needs more than just repentance.

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 8:28 AMCopy HTML

I was just commenting on my experience, considering the Pastor I had, Ted was like a grandpa figure in comparison.
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 8:45 AMCopy HTML

where were you?
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 9:42 AMCopy HTML

The woman involved with Ted wasn't a new person, she has been in the assembly for many many years, is married and has children.
She got a slap on the wrist and was never put out. She continued on as usual. It was a very interesting time and from my experience there were always 2 sets of rules. Ted was just as bad as all the rest of them but Alan Morton is worse than Ted by a long shot. 
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 10:11 AMCopy HTML

Reply to CaSaMa

The woman involved with Ted wasn't a new person, she has been in the assembly for many many years, is married and has children.
She got a slap on the wrist and was never put out. She continued on as usual. It was a very interesting time and from my experience there were always 2 sets of rules. Ted was just as bad as all the rest of them but Alan Morton is worse than Ted by a long shot. 


Yep, thats true. I remember this incident. Noel looked very saddened by it all.  When you look at what happened with Barry and Ted you have to question Noel's decernment regarding the appointing of elders and oversights. If God really talks to him he must be deaf
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 10:54 AMCopy HTML

My pastor was one of the Griggs' brothers. Not exactly friendly and very clicky on who their children and their partners could be friends with and believed anything their children told them, even if they were the instigators of certain nastiness, I was the one that got into trouble for confronting them about it. Every DAMN time!!!

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 12:19 PMCopy HTML

To prezy, casa,

I may be wrong here but a woman named Tamara was involved with Ted Owen. I believe she was from Adelaide. May or may not be the same person you are referring to. This Tammy ended up marrying Keith Turner and both now with RF in Ballarat.

RH

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:23/06/2010 11:26 PMCopy HTML

There were rumours about who Ted was going to marry after his wife Pam died. There was apparently someone from Adelaide and another from Newcastle. He married the one from Newcastle and he often said when he retired he would move to Tassie, an odd statement for a pastor I thought at the time. When he removed himself from his ministry, he and his wife moved to Tassie where he died. His wife came back to Croydon after a couple of years and remarried. He always surrounded himself with most of the single woman in the assembley and spent time alone with them at various times hence getting himself into the trouble he did. Didn't follow the own rules and regs set down for everyone else.

CaSaMa
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:14/07/2010 6:32 AMCopy HTML


How to become a cult leader

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:08/09/2010 9:15 PMCopy HTML

Stockholm Syndrome

http://www.dannyhaszard.com/stockholm_syndrome.htm
welcome not preachy preachy please I love cats
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:21/09/2010 8:32 AMCopy HTML

I don't remember ever seeing the bobble-head or any of his minions do any Exorcisms.

http://www.uproxx.com/feature/2010/09/demons-out-the-internets-most-outrageous-exorcism-videos/

Was he not trained in it? In his case I'm sure he would have been self-taught.
 Was it not common in the Geelong area to be possessed that there was little opportunity to do so?
Did he try it a couple of time and thing went horribly wrong?
If he had started to cast out demons I might have stayed just for the shows.
welcome not preachy preachy please I love cats
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:28/10/2010 6:44 PMCopy HTML

This is another Cult - tivator

Say Hi to Paul

South Bay Revival Fellowship

2928 Marine Avenue

Gardena, CA 90249

Sunday Service – 2:30 p.m.

Pastor Paul Heis – (951) 317-1619

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:10/11/2010 6:10 AMCopy HTML

Noel taught us that the dingo did not eat the baby and the the big bang was the way god created the universe.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bang.php


And some good news for those that believe this b.s. The world is not going to end because of our co2 out put.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5O1HsTVgA

So what silly things does Noel teach these days?
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:10/11/2010 9:41 AMCopy HTML

Good evening, Guest.

Noel taught us that the dingo did not eat the baby and the the big bang was the way god created the universe. Well, I don't much know about the dingo, but you might be interested to learn that the so-called 'Big Bang' theory is largely compatible with Judeo-Christian belief concerning origins. In point of fact, (from memory) the largest grouping of PhD-level scientists who subscribe to Christian belief, are researchers in Astrophysics and related disciplines.

"Our whole universe was in a hot, dense state when nearly fourteen million years ago expansion started, wait ..."

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:10/11/2010 9:17 PMCopy HTML

my point is: dingo story wrong equal big bang wrong most of Noel's teaching wrong. if there is a god prove it!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bang.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0P5I5fkqvA
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:10/11/2010 9:42 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, guest.

my point is: dingo story wrong equal big bang wrong most of Noel's teaching wrong. if there is a god prove it! I do hope you'll take this response the right way, but what you've shared thus far is just plain stupid.

Do you know? But I'm starting to think there remains a significant population in this world that sources their drinking water from homes serviced by lead pipes! And for whetever reason, they've started gravitating here!

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:11/11/2010 10:11 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Good morning, guest.

my point is: dingo story wrong equal big bang wrong most of Noel's teaching wrong. if there is a god prove it! I do hope you'll take this response the right way, but what you've shared thus far is just plain stupid.

Do you know? But I'm starting to think there remains a significant population in this world that sources their drinking water from homes serviced by lead pipes! And for whetever reason, they've started gravitating here!

Ian


Lead is a metal that occurs naturally in the earth's crust. People have spread it through the environment in many ways. Lead used to be in paint and gasoline. Lead can still be found in contaminated soil, household dust, drinking water, lead-glazed pottery and some metal jewelry.

Breathing air, drinking water, eating food or swallowing or touching dirt that contains lead can cause many health problems. In adults, lead can increase blood pressure and cause infertility, nerve disorders and muscle and joint pain. It can also make you irritable and affect your ability to concentrate and remember.

Lead is especially dangerous for children. A child who swallows large amounts of lead may develop anemia, severe stomachache, muscle weakness and brain damage. Even low levels of lead are linked to lower IQ scores.


Have you heard of the new musical called "Being Ian?" It's him yelling at the audience calling them  names and pooping in his hand. 
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:11/11/2010 10:40 PMCopy HTML

Dear, Guest.

Thank you for the brief lesson on lead in it's natural state, but clearly the point of my post (which was 'irony', by the way) passed you by


Morologus es, blennum.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:11/11/2010 10:50 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon
Good morning, guest.

my point is: dingo story wrong equal big bang wrong most of Noel's teaching wrong. if there is a god prove it! I do hope you'll take this response the right way, but what you've shared thus far is just plain stupid.

Do you know? But I'm starting to think there remains a significant population in this world that sources their drinking water from homes serviced by lead pipes! And for whetever reason, they've started gravitating here!

Ian

Maybe we should think what effect 'Flouride' is going to have in years to come.

RH


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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:11/11/2010 11:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon
Dear, Guest.

Thank you for the brief lesson on lead in it's natural state, but clearly the point of my post (which was 'irony', by the way) passed you by



'Tragic irony' I would say


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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/11/2010 2:03 AMCopy HTML

Maybe we should think what effect 'Flouride' is going to have in years to come.

RH



Reasons Not to Fluoridate


The following partial list is compiled from Fluoride Alert:
Fluoride is a cumulative poison.
Chromosome damage
Kidneys
Brain
Alzheimers

Rats dosed prenatally demonstrated hyperactive behavior. Those dosed postnatally demonstrated hypoactivity (i.e. under activity or “couch potato” syndrome)
Lowering of IQ
Early onset of puberty
Affects thyroid gland
Arthritis
Cancer
Infertility
Harms bones – brittle

ttp://saladin-avoiceinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2010/11/codex-fluoride-auschwitz-monsanto.html


This is how I picture Ian but with poop in his hand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tXNEAT3FY



vos have fio quis vos praedicatio obviam








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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/11/2010 4:59 AMCopy HTML

To prezy, casa,

I may be wrong here but a woman named Tamara was involved with Ted Owen. I believe she was from Adelaide. May or may not be the same person you are referring to. This Tammy ended up marrying Keith Turner and both now with RF in Ballarat.

RH

 hi, RH, yes I am that same person, but having "seen The light" in the RF that they are no different than all the rest, Keith and I have a small fellowship called Bible Truth Fellowship in the RSL hall in Buninyong without the politics look us up some time ph 53414647 Tamara ( Tammy)
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/11/2010 5:20 AMCopy HTML

Hi Tammy

In the spirit of this thread I have to ask, "Is your Revival spin-off a cult?"

Can you tell us what aspects of Revivalism you've held onto since leaving its system behind? What are the Bible Truths in your Fellowship?
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/11/2010 9:47 AMCopy HTML

Hi Tammy,

I would also like to know how Bible Truth Fellowship is different from the Revival Centres?
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/11/2010 1:16 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest
Hi Tammy,

I would also like to know how Bible Truth Fellowship is different from the Revival Centres?

Maybe this will answer your guestions; http://www.bibletruthfellowship.org/


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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/11/2010 1:46 AMCopy HTML

Guest,

'Yep', the link about sums matters up! What we have here is yet another misguided Revivalist off-shoot, with the Turners spruiking the same heretical nonsense to the biblically and theologically unwary of their town. Unfortunately this couple seems to be even less sophisticated than their immediate forebears: e.g. the statement that the KJV represents the English Bible, "... in its entirety, in the original translation ... "?! I wonder if Keith knows that: (1) the King James Version, as originally published (i.e. "in its entirety"), was a revision of an earlier English translation? (2) That it used, as its reference, a rather deficient Greek text, one that was cobbled together in haste by a Roman Catholic priest (Erasmus), and then specifically for pecuniary gain? And, (3) that it included the Apocryphal books so favoured by that Church? I'm guessing the answer to each of these questions would be, 'no'.

In the past year or so we've enjoyed/endured the company of: (1) Tony ("Lukie") Barton, (2) Alf Neri and now (3) Tammy Turner visiting the forum to 'advertise' their 'revised' forms of Revivalism. History has conclusively demonstrated that there is no such thing as a 'safe' version of this particular home-grown heresy. When you build on a cracked foundation (i.e. a false 'gospel'), you always end up with a structure that is thoroughly 'broken', and bereft of any redeeming features. This is simply another example of "the blind leading the blind", with the proverbial "ditch" looming close (so Luke 6:39 & 40).

Anyway this latest development is sad, so very sad.

Ian<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/11/2010 3:33 AMCopy HTML

Yep, sad. Tragic even.

Another 'Revival' splinter group: The Revival Bible Truth Fellowship

Sheesh!

So what we have here is more of the same, but without the politics and without the actual 'fellowship', when you consider the drop of  people you actually get to rub shoulders with when you join these sad little splinter groups of well meaning, yet hapless, people on a Sunday morning/afternoon at some RSL. I bet there's no mixing with any mainstream churches. I bet Keith and Tam try hard to find other tongue speaking splinter groups to meet up with and do picnics etc.

They thought the remarkable Revival doctrine penned by Lloyd was the bee's knees, and made their mother church the best in the world, as far as they knew, until the franchises necessitated hierarchy and rules. Now, when ex-members such as there's start up their own 'fellowships' sans the nasty politics with the controlling mechanisms that kept everyone safe and conditioned in their Revival Centres, they'll be even better, and closer to God. Pfftt.

These pathetic little group pop up like pimples all over the place. They never left Revival because the doctrine IS Revival. And should their little groups miraculously ever get to the size of their prior haunts they'll have to set up the very same rules, guidelines and politics to keep people in line with their doctrine. Revivalists need to keep the blinkers on. They have to be reminded constantly that their unique practices and beliefs are superior and select, and the smaller their group, the more select they feel.

The 'tongues' mythology keeps them stumbling all over themselves like the confused lot at the Tower of Babel.

Is your Revival Centre a cult?

It's on its way.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/11/2010 5:33 AMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust

Yep, sad. Tragic even.

Another 'Revival' splinter group: The Revival Bible Truth Fellowship

Sheesh!

So what we have here is more of the same, but without the politics and without the actual 'fellowship', when you consider the drop of  people you actually get to rub shoulders with when you join these sad little splinter groups of well meaning, yet hapless, people on a Sunday morning/afternoon at some RSL. I bet there's no mixing with any mainstream churches. I bet Keith and Tam try hard to find other tongue speaking splinter groups to meet up with and do picnics etc.

They thought the remarkable Revival doctrine penned by Lloyd was the bee's knees, and made their mother church the best in the world, as far as they knew, until the franchises necessitated hierarchy and rules. Now, when ex-members such as there's start up their own 'fellowships' sans the nasty politics with the controlling mechanisms that kept everyone safe and conditioned in their Revival Centres, they'll be even better, and closer to God. Pfftt.

These pathetic little group pop up like pimples all over the place. They never left Revival because the doctrine IS Revival. And should their little groups miraculously ever get to the size of their prior haunts they'll have to set up the very same rules, guidelines and politics to keep people in line with their doctrine. Revivalists need to keep the blinkers on. They have to be reminded constantly that their unique practices and beliefs are superior and select, and the smaller their group, the more select they feel.

The 'tongues' mythology keeps them stumbling all over themselves like the confused lot at the Tower of Babel.

Is your Revival Centre a cult?

It's on its way.

 - Cow Manure ... something you find in a cow paddock where cows have been  !!!

.Meta
..

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:12/12/2010 5:21 AMCopy HTML

 This falls  in line with that you are always trying to preach to me.
That the world is coming to an end and it may be soon.

Is this how it's going to happen?

Watch these You Tubes and see if you knew.
Watch these You Tubes and think how you are going to play the game.
Watch these You Tubes and tell your friends and family how enslaved they really are to the banks and big governments selling them out.

We are of the topic of grc but I believe this to be more important for you and your family



OHCANADAMOVIE.COM


Google: Money As Debt video


The Secret of Oz



The Great Global Warming Swindle


Zeitgeist - The Movie


Federal Reserve

Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve


George Carlin The American dream



Corporation Nation



Money As Debt



Even god can not help you when the shoot hits the fan



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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/12/2010 5:09 PMCopy HTML

baby jesus liked GOLD!!
And adult jesus did not like money changers.

This story hold us 2000 years later.

Think about it. So there are some truths in the bible.

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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:13/12/2010 5:36 PMCopy HTML

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=related



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Re:Is Your Revival Centre a Cult?

Date Posted:14/12/2010 6:32 PMCopy HTML

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana (1863-19520

“Those who can remember the past can take advantage and condemn those who cannot remember the past.”


RCI prophesies
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