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| Title: Is Pieter Visser secretly quoting an atheist? | |
| Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Revival Churches > The Revival Fellowship (TRF) Discussion | Go to subcategory： |
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SintaxError
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Date Posted：13/05/2009 1:43 PMCopy HTML A question to ponder: Is the following a coincidence, or is RF pastor Pieter Visser doing a "L. Ron Hubbard/ Scientology" style trick on everyone? In an article in the recent April 09 Euro report, titled "God's grace", he opens with the following statement (emphasis mine): "A while ago I read somewhere an attempt to typify the new testament as compared to the old testament, it read: “The destruction of evil seems less desirable than the conversion of bad into good”, followed by a quotation from John 8:11 ….. “go and sin no more.” This didn’t seem to be a bad summing-up of the new testament’s “mission statement” and I decided to investigate this further." Since he hasnt told us where that "somewhere" was, I too decided to investigate further, thinking that maybe he is drawing his info from some theological book. You know, the exact type of publication which Visser's sheep are forbidden to read. So I did a quick google search and this surprise came up: "However, in the concluding scene, R. Daneel exhibits a sense of morality. He argues that the captured murderer be treated leniently, telling his human companions that he now realizes the destruction of evil is less desirable than the conversion of evil into good. Quoting the Pericope Adulteræ, Daneel tells the murderer, "Go, and sin no more!" Where is it from? It is from a plot summary of a science fiction novel by non other than Isaac Asimov, called Caves of Steel. About half-way down this web page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caves_of_Steel And, funnily, the character doing the talking is a robot, penned by a practically atheist writer. Can anyone see a reasonable explanation for this, other than that some serious wool is being pulled over many eyes? I am struggling to comprehend :) BTW, the rest of the article says absolutely nothing about God's grace, and basically contains nothing but fearmongering. SinTaxError |
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Talmid
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#1
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Re：Is Pieter Visser secretly quoting an atheist? Date Posted：13/05/2009 11:51 PMCopy HTML Yo STE
Having read a lot of Asimov over the years, I reckon it's likely that R. Daneel's statement is derived from something theological in Asimov's background or reading. I'd wager that the source of the statement goes back a looooong way and that Visser read something theological that was quoting the same long established aphorism/saying. It'd be interesting to run it by someone with serious theological training going back a decade or four to see whether s/he recognises it. The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Didaktikon
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#2
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Re：Is Pieter Visser secretly quoting an atheist? Date Posted：14/05/2009 12:21 AMCopy HTML STE and Talmid.
The quoted statement rings with a somewhat familiar tone, and without having gone to the trouble of checking, it sounds an awful lot to me like Karl Barth. If and when I get the chance, I'll trawl through his Church Dogmatics to see if a can verify a source. However, I seriously doubt that Piet Visser is a Barthian in his theology, given Revivalism's warped perspective on grace, so I suppose God alone knows for sure from whence he came by that particular quote  Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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SintaxError
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#3
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Re：Is Pieter Visser secretly quoting an atheist? Date Posted：14/05/2009 3:02 AMCopy HTML Ian and Talmid.
Thanks for your comments. Whichever way it is (Asimov or a theologian), revivalists need to see the hypocrisy. Many of the people (esp. in Holland) wouldn't even visit a christian bookshop, since they believe themselves to be far above the rest of "compromising christianity", and here you have their leader who will take scraps of information from anywhere, provided it suits him. In one sense, it would be even more ironic if he was quoting Barth, especially since the article is supposed to argue against the doctrine of the reformed church :) On the other hand, I would personally lean towards the 'Asimov' hypothesis, since I know Visser does read popular fiction and has a strong dislike of theologians ;) What next? Will he be basing his talks on his exegesis of Alistair Maclean? SinTaxError |
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Didaktikon
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#4
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Re：Is Pieter Visser secretly quoting an atheist? Date Posted：14/05/2009 5:18 AMCopy HTML STE, chaire.
Indeed. I find it interesting that Piet Visser has apparently now twice relied upon 'third-party' sources to make substantive points in two of his editorials: (1) an old VOR article on the gifts of the Spirit, and (2) it seems, an Isaac Asimov novel. The former was presented as if it were wholly his work, the RCI publication not being credited at all (however, I don't blame him on that score!) And the impression that he sought to present WRT the latter reference didn't lean towards it being sourced from a piece of popular science fiction! Anyway, I decided read his editorial in the February European newsletter this morning, and was thoroughly amazed at the self-serving nature of the piece: Piet Visser, modern-day 'Nehemiah'! Instead of accepting that he was in gross error in the earlier editorial, Visser decided it was much better to imply that those who dared to critique him, were nothing more than 'godless' people intent on subverting the authority of God's chosen worker! I wonder that RF people can honestly stomach such obvious arrogance and hubris in one of their leaders. Blessings, Ian email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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