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Unkoolman
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Date Posted:31/03/2007 7:57 AMCopy HTML

...
Unkoolmail

"As man is, so is his God; And thus is God, oft strangely odd" - Goethe

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:31/03/2007 8:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5

To Moth, your are certainly gettiing soft "love franks Ghost" hmmmmmmActually i think the ghost title should stay as he dosent say to much at the moment let alone respond to pm?????lol

Now earth, you know that when I need to speak I will. But let me say for the love I feel from Set Free and Moth and consider that I myself was about to find myself out in cyber wilderness only weeks ago like GWM, for making unfounded comments about a tardy threesome.

What the hell has happened? just because I've learned to put my words in some sort of considered thought patterns, I get you guys going a bit gooooey.

Have you forgotten I'm a tongue speaking, card carrying member of the RF. My hands firmly by my side in chorus sessions. In fact Today we sang "Oh for a Thousand Tongues". Whoa!!!!! (Didn't say I like it)

On another subject.

I sat with a brother from Gosford today (he came here to T for a visit) and showed him how to acces the forum. I walked him through and gave him a brief on all you guys, yep all.. so we may get a visit from another undergoing "open heart surgery".  Of which There's plenty.

Earth one of the reasons I have not had as much to say is because I am seeing massive change around the work. Steve's done his thing and is moving on. BB is going for it. Sunny Coast, Tmba, Bris. are really asking the right questions. My recent visit to Canberra opened up a some great opportunity, tomorrow I'm going to the Gold Coast to pray with my younger brother who bought me to this fellowship 26 yrs ago. They are struggling down there, there is need of a wake up. There's been a deep sleep for years.

Earth when I came to the forum I went BLa bla bla, yabba, yabba, yabba. I now know that plenty of RF people are looking at the site. The organisation if it doesn't wake up will lose it's candlestick, thats if it hasn't already. (I'm sure many will say that, I've gotta be joking-of course it has!!!)  But I want to say that I do not want to dissadvantage good people who are waking up in various places with dumb comments, naming names and places. Just as I've done in this post.

If you guys pray for the people in the organisation, I'll keep you posted on the changes, it's happening.

So for now the ghost will stay. However will some please show me how to improve my Avatar.

Gods richest blessing on you all.

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Sea Urchin Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:31/03/2007 9:54 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Thanks my friend, sorry I just found your email- haven't logged on for a day. I've replied in full.  I covet all your prayers.  I'm going in hard.


Hey FG,  I will be praying for abundant blessings for you and in particular those still in RF that are being woken up.  God is revealing much to those that have open hearts and want to follow Him.  I just heard an awesome talk about  "Reason versus Revelation" and it is this revelation that is happening all around our nation at the moment.  We are getting the ' wake-up call'  LOUD & CLEAR ! (if you want a CD of the talk, I have a spare, email me & I'll post it to you)

11Timothy 3:16 ALL scripture is given by the inspiration of God.  God's inspired word is revealed to us.          (' Reveal '  means to ' unveil ')  I have been wondering, has the RF hidden the word of God under a veil? And is it now being revealed (unveiled) by the Holy Spirit? WHY this sudden outpouring of the Holy Spirit? 

For me, I just accept it and accept it gladly. I am so grateful that I woke up when I did - I would hate to be found sleeping (lukewarm) when Jesus returns for His church!

FG, go for it hard, press in and God will reveal all that He has to !!

God bless, Urchin

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:01/04/2007 7:13 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Good morning, Frank.

I noticed you inferred that good things were happening around the RF (e.g. Toowoomba, Brisbane, Canberra, etc). Well 'good' (my interpretation of the singular point of your own post) is a rather loose adjective, as well as being somewhat subjective in its application. Consider, whilst I too find it refreshing to note the potential for a little shaking off of social legalism occurring in certain of your fellowships, the fact remains that you fellows continue to preach heresy pure and simple. Consequently, your fellowship continues to corrupt the simple gospel of Christ, and in doing so, you (plural) place yourselves under the condemnation and judgment of God

I contacted a few of my own 'spies' in several of the RF assemblies that you mentioned in your post above. They've advised me that no-one plans on 'tinkering' with the RF's 'salvation message'. I hope then, that you'll excuse me if I don't get too excited about the updating of a little sociological 'window dressing'.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:01/04/2007 7:49 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : franks ghostGood morning, Frank.I noticed you inferred thatgoodthings were

Thats fine SOTT. I myself will be keeping an eye out for the fruit.

I guess if we are under a curse then it will be all in vain. (I'll keep you all informed).

As our recent GWM found out, the word that tells us John 5:39 "Search the sciptures for in them you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me".

As GMW dicovered the forum holds a dim view of obsessevly quoteing verse after verse and putting your own spin on it. (no thats not a back hander to you, I think anyway....).

So if I may been humoured for a time lets just see how it unfolds.

I'll see if I can be directed by the Holy Ghost to discover a little more of the one the scripture speaks of, and get Frank to take a back seat. So far the journey has been both enlightening and humbling.

Heart open, enlightenment, healing, I wonder what else is in store. Maybe sufficient revelation to want to spend moe time going over things with you one day. Who knows? anything is possible as truth is revealed.

Doesn't seem like a life under curse anyway time will tell.

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:01/04/2007 8:32 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank, again.

Thats fine SOTT. I myself will be keeping an eye out for the fruit.

I'm glad to hear it

I guess if we are under a curse then it will be all in vain. (I'll keep you all informed).

Well, please humour me just a little further: have you studied Galatians 1 yet, and have you pondered the implications of what Paul states therein?

As our recent GWM found out, the word that tells us John 5:39 "Search the sciptures for in them you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me". As GMW dicovered the forum holds a dim view of obsessevly quoteing verse after verse and putting your own spin on it. (no thats not a back hander to you, I think anyway....)

Well, I'd suggest that there's less of my own 'spin' and more of what Scripture actually presents being offered than you, perhaps, might care to accept at the moment. Further, I doubt very many people would put me in the same box as 'GWM' with respect to the way I exposit Scripture

So if I may been humoured for a time lets just see how it unfolds

Sure, but I'll remind you that it has been unfolding, for years. You didn't notice though, did you?

I'll see if I can be directed by the Holy Ghost to discover a little more of the one the scripture speaks of, and get Frank to take a back seat. So far the journey has been both enlightening and humbling.

Sure. But isn't it amazing that your fellowship has been preaching the same message since it came into being, the very message that it inherited from the RCI; and it's only now that you are starting to discover the very One about whom Scripture speaks? What does that fact indicate about the RF's message, I wonder?

Heart open, enlightenment, healing, I wonder what else is in store. Maybe sufficient revelation to want to spend more time going over things with you one day. Who knows? anything is possible as truth is revealed.

I'm less concerned with your desire to go over matters with me, than I am with your apparent lack of desire to reflect as deeply as you should on what Scripture presents as being the gospel message. It seems to me, that you're simply not prepared to challenge the most sacred of Revivalist dogmas, to see just how much support can be garnered for it from Scripture

Doesn't seem like a life under curse anyway time will tell

But you didn't think your life was lived under Paul's Galatian curse in all your years in the RCI/RF before your most recent epiphany, did you? To me, this sort of indicates that you should place more heed in what the 'instruction manual' says than you perhaps do in your own spiritual 'feelings'.

My thought for the day

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:01/04/2007 8:32 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Reply to : MothandRustReply to : franks ghostHave you forgotten I'm a tongue speaking, card carrying member of the RF. My hands firmly by my side in chorus sessions. In fact Today we sang "Oh for aMoth I think the loooove is growing , thanks for the avatar advise. Now I'm starting to scare myself.Is this a sign a cyborg is becoming a little to human, i didn't think we were supposed to feel love and fear.

Hi FG, I love your avatar - it's always good to see photos of friends LOL!!!

Here's one of me  (one of my better shots)

Hang in there FG, I believe God has a plan and He will reveal ALL that He has to to those that He chooses!

Urchin

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 7:11 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Brolga

Good morning, Brolga.

May I ask S1, is this the same conclusion you come to when you consider the ways of the other mainline churches, Anglican, Catholic,etc.,?

Well, here's the interesting thing: the 'mainline' churches (including the two that you mentioned above) haven't gotten the gospel wrong. Whilst they certainly do have their own denominational 'quirks', they haven't chucked out the biblical gospel message in preference for their own unique and alternate claims (a la the Revivalists).

I may be wrong, but referring to your postings on other threads, suggesting one should check-out these churches in looking for enlightenment etc., there seemed to be an air of approval about them coming from you. (Enpowerment topic 16/03/2007, for one).

You're not wrong. I did recommend people checking out said churches, because such belong to the ancient and established Christian tradition

Doesn't the Bible make it clear, for an example, we are to follow Christ and he is the only mediator between God and man, not Mary. Even though I am trying to look outside of my Revivalist mindset, I see there is no difference in what you are saying to Frank.

There's plenty of difference. For starters, your position on the role that Mary supposedly plays isn't what the Roman Catholic Church teaches (i.e. there is absolutely no Catholic dogma that labels Mary Co-Redemptrix with Christ). The basic problem, as I see it, is this: the various Revivalist groups spread and bred ignorance about other churches (specifically the Roman Catholic Church). Revivalists, being fundamentally 'lazy' when it comes to checking out the validity of truth claims, never bother to seek out the facts. They remain comfortably satisfied in their ignorance. Ergo, the pope to them becomes the antichrist, the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon and similar such nonsense. My quip: 'ignorance may be bliss, but it certainly ain't eternal!'

So, I stand by my previous statements to Frank. And he, apparently, remains one Revivalist who is comfortably satisfied in his own ignorance concerning the afore-mentioned matters as well

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 10:36 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : BrolgaGood morning, Brolga.May I ask S1, is this the same conclusion you come to when you consider the ways of the other mainline churches, Anglican, Catholic,etc.,?Well, here's the interesting thing: the 'mainline' churches (including the two that you mentioned above)haven'tgotten the gospel wrong. Whilst they certainly do have their own denominational 'quirks', theyhaven'tchucked out the biblical gospel message in preference for their own unique andalternateclaims (a la the Revivalists).I may be wrong, but referring to your postings on other threads, suggesting one should check-out these churches in looking for enlightenment etc., there seemed to be an air of approval about them coming from you. (Enpowerment topic 16/03/2007, for one).You're not wrong. Ididrecommend people ch

Fascinating stuff SOTT1.  My head just swirls with responses when I read your stuff.

So if nothing else be assured I read it.

Where on earth do you fellowship with this belief system of yours.? Oh boy I feel like a philistine when I read about doctrinallly lazy Revers.

Then I head of into my closet pray in my unauthentic tongue, open up dialogue with my invisible friend, then head off to the wider world and spruke my accursed gospel to the uninformed and on it goes...................

Whoa.

I'm starting to melt down, all these personal thoughts ..........ninja, with death kick.........male model...........intellectual.........theologian..........spirit filled brother..............aaaaaaaahhhhh.

Who is this masked man?- talk about Captain Marvel, Captain Sott1, Super Sott1, do you have a sidekick.

Now there, I take on a new avatar and suddenly I start thinking I can take on Spider Sott1.

Oh this is just getting silly isn't it? (Holborn quick sober me up send something) , fancing all this stuff and not a verse to be seen (lazy, decieved rever i am).

What thread am I on any way , sorry to the person who set the topic. I'm outa here I way past my morning coffee (long black with cream on side) for those who care (Earth, Nahum anyone,can anyone truely love such a ignorant neanderthal).

Oh MOth this feels good, I just wish I watched a few more TV & Vids that I could be more clever in my diatribe.

Yibbidah Yibbidah Yibbidah that's all folks

 

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 12:08 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank,

Fascinating stuff SOTT1. My head just swirls with responses when I read your stuff.

If such helps to inform you, then I am satisfied

Where on earth do you fellowship with this belief system of yours.? Oh boy I feel like a philistine when I read about doctrinallly lazy Revers.

I fellowship with a wide range of Christians. Understand that you fellows (Revivalists) are lazy when it comes to assessing and checking 'truth claims', you simply don't do so. Consider, anytime anyone questions your 'tongues' experience, and the place that such fits in Scripture, 'SLAM!' down come the shutters

Then I head of into my closet pray in my unauthentic tongue, open up dialogue with my invisible friend, then head off to the wider world and spruke my accursed gospel to the uninformed and on it goes...

First, I've nowhere said that your 'tongue' isn't authentic. What I have suggested, however, is that it doesn't indicate what you think it does. Second, what you 'spruik' isn't the gospel the Bible presents. Further to this, I even pointed you to a rather succinct passage wherein the apostle Paul very clearly outlines the eventual result of doing what you fellows do with your false gospel. But you refuse to even consider the ramifications of this (which makes you willfully ignorant, rather than just simply ignorant), preferring instead to introduce a weak attempt at parody to redirect and so defuse the argument

I'm starting to melt down, all these personal thoughts ..........ninja, with death kick.........male model...........intellectual.........theologian..........spirit filled brother..............aaaaaaaahhhhh.

Back to ad hom attacks again, brother? As you've mentioned elsewhere on this forum, every time you're unable to address, in a mature and responsible manner, the arguments that others raise, and then through appeal to Scripture; you resort to personal slander (here are your very words: ps SOTT1 if there is one thing I have learnt about myself it is when I run out of argument I revert to personal attack. (how predictable). Why do you do so?

Who is this masked man?- talk about Captain Marvel, Captain Sott1, Super Sott1, do you have a sidekick.

There you go, more of the same.

Now there, I take on a new avatar and suddenly I start thinking I can take on Spider Sott1.

And still more.

Oh this is just getting silly isn't it? (Holborn quick sober me up send something) , fancing all this stuff and not a verse to be seen (lazy, decieved rever i am).

Indeed you are deceived (both by the Revivalist 'system', as well as by yourself, no less). Further, you've had the relevant verses presented to you by me a number of times. You just don't seem inclined to follow them to where they lead

What thread am I on any way , sorry to the person who set the topic. I'm outa here I way past my morning coffee (long black with cream on side) for those who care (Earth, Nahum anyone,can anyone truely love such a ignorant neanderthal).

This has nothing whatsoever to do with loving you, Frank (although it does touch on your ignorance), and everything to do with exercising care for your eternity. Ironically enough, it seems that I care more for your spiritual and temporal end-state than you do.

Oh MOth this feels good, I just wish I watched a few more TV & Vids that I could be more clever in my diatribe.

You could begin by addressing the argument, as has been presented to you several times. That would certainly raise your profile

Yibbidah Yibbidah Yibbidah that's all folks

And to exercise my 'gift' of translation: "...thus saith Frank, 'I do not wish to reflect of the central dogma of my fellowship, as I fear that I may find it wanting in biblical support.'"

Perhaps, brother, you might care to attempt a little dialogue about the more meaty issues, rather than just passing casual time on the incidentals? And, of course, it might be best if you leave the uninformed and ignorant Revivalist denials and drivel to the likes of 'GWM'. You will only lower your profile otherwise.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 12:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Oh this is just getting silly isn't it? (Holborn quick sober me up send something) , fancing all this stuff and not a verse to be seen (lazy, decieved rever i am). What thread am I on any way , sorry to the person who set the topic. I'm outa here I way past my morning coffee (long black with cream on side) for those who care (Earth, Nahum anyone,can anyone truely love such a ignorant neanderthal). Oh MOth this feels good, I just wish I watched a few more TV & Vids that I could be more clever in my diatribe.


HEY Frankie, steady old son!  Go have a coffee and chill out. Sometimes you just have to ignore the posts that you don't agree with, if you know what I mean.  I KNOW you're on an exciting journey but maybe  (?) some people on the forum feel that cos (in theory) you still go to RF, they have the right to 'pick' on you or maybe they see you, or who they think you represent, as a reminder of what they left . NOT WHAT I THINK of course! 

You are not an ignorant neanderthal, you are not a lazy deceived rever. 

You are a wonderful person on whom the Spirit is moving, as you seek answers from God. (if you were a lazy deceived rever you wouldn't be looking past the 1-2-3 or even coming on this forum)

Anyway, what would I know , I is just a simple little sea urchin floating around the forum!  Hang in there matey!

God bless, Urchin

 

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 12:34 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Sea Urchin

Hi, SU.

There's heaps of things that Christians are perfectly free to agree to disagree on (how communion is undertaken, whether baptism must be by immersion, etc). Theology refers to these as adiaphora. There's a select few issues, however, about which we're not so free in the holding of personal opinion. What it is that comprises the Christian gospel is just one such topic.

Now old Frankie is more than happy to talk around the stuff that isn't all that important (the adiaphora), but he refuses point-blank to enter into discussions that would address the Revivalist misconception of the gospel. And it's this particular subject that sets his fellowship apart from historic and orthodox Christianity.

If it's THE gospel which is the message that leads to salvation, then we do FALSE gospels lead?

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 1:14 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : Sea UrchinHi, SU.There'sheapsof things that Christians are perfectly free to agree to disagree on (how communion is undertaken, whether baptism must be by immersion, etc). Theology refers to these asadiaphora. There's a selectfewissues, however, about which we're not so free in the holding of personal opinion. What it is that comprises theChristian gospelis just one such topic.Now old Frankie ismorethan happy to talk around the stuff that isn't all that important (theadiaphora), but he refusespoint-blankto enter into discussions that would address the Revivalistmisconceptionof the gospel. And it's this particular subject that sets his fellowship apart from historic and orthodox Christianity.If it's THE gospel which is the message that leads to salvation, then we do FAL

SOTT1, I'm not here to speak for Frank, however I can and do speak for myself. 

I left RF 3 months ago, not because of bitterness or unhappiness particularly (well, I wasn't happy with a lot of things being said) but because of  REVELATION.

And so because of 'REVELATION'  not  'reason', I can see very clearly that the old RFdoctrine was wrong.  To say that one 'must speak in tongues to be saved' is of course incorrect ! ( funny how I couldn't 'see' that 3 months ago though ? )  To select one of the gifts of the spirit (tongues) and set a whole salvation doctrine around it and read INTO the scriptures what supports that doctrine is certainly a false gospel. However, given that it wasn't until I 'left' that I could see that, maybe others are in that same position. 

To quote something said in church recently - We need to stay in the place of revelation - launch into the deep of revelation NOT the lies of reason. It is Satan's desire for us to stay in 'reason' not revelation!

Give Frank time to have the 'revelation' - he is getting there!!  He needs our love and support through this - not our condemnation 'a la RF style'.

Love in Christ, Sea Urchin

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 1:41 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Sea Urchin

Hi, SU.

I agree with most of what you said. However, Scripture is also quite plain when it comes to the confronting of heresy and the importance of doing so.

--I've just decided now to tackle this response in a slightly different way, hence this change --

SU, what Frank supports (and he does) and preaches (and he does) is poison. It kills people spiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hose Further, I'd suggest that you ask Frank if he's more than happy to stay in the Toowoomba RF. I'm quite confident that he has absolutely no desire or intention whatsoever, of leaving that fellowship. Sadly, the Toowoomba RF similarly has no intention of visiting its 'salvation message' to see whether or not it has the biblical support they claim. In short, there are likely to be some cosmetic changes to the way things are done in Toowoomba (or Brisbane, or Canberra, etc), but no substantive change at all to the underlying issue: the promotion of a false gospel, and the consequences that pertain to such.

Therefore your own situation isn't really all that comparable to Frank's current one.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 1:53 PMCopy HTML

And so because of 'REVELATION'  not  'reason', I can see very clearly that the old RFdoctrine was wrong.  To say that one 'must speak in tongues to be saved' is of course incorrect ! ( funny how I couldn't 'see' that 3 months ago though ? )  To select one of the gifts of the spirit (tongues) and set a whole salvation doctrine around it and read INTO the scriptures what supports that doctrine is certainly a false gospel. However, given that it wasn't until I 'left' that I could see that, maybe others are in that same position. 

Aint it the truth Sea Urchin, it was certainly by Revelation for me and my wife

PS Franks G is cool had a chat this arvo he did the post tounge in cheek, so much happening with him and through him at the moment, keep him in your prayers for God to use where he is going on the journey as he is affecting a lot of people in the revers at the moment up the east coast and its all good and exciting.

earth5

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 2:55 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : Sea UrchinHi, SU.I agree with most of what you said. However, Scripture is alsoquite plainwhen it comes to the confronting ofheresyand the importance of doing so.--I've just decided now to tackle this response in a slightly different way, hence this change--SU, what Franksupports(and he does) and preaches (and he does) ispoison. Itkills peoplespiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hoseFurther, I'd suggest that you ask Frank if he'smore than happyto stay in the Toowoomba RF. I'm quite confident that he has

Hi SU & Sott1, No need to ask, I'll happily tell you, I love my fellowship in Toowoomba & if ever you get a chance to come here then you will understand why. Oh yes I am getting a pretty clear picture of you now Ian.

Further to the conversation re revelation, my revelation has very little to do with tongues. Although praying with tongues and understaning support the process.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #16
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 3:01 PMCopy HTML

i find myself sitting in the middle and agreeing with both sea urchin and scott1

when i left it was because i was desperatly unhappy, i knew there were things wrong with the curch but never questiond the doctrine, i had been speaking in toungs since i was 5 and never knew anything else but the church, as well as the deeply ingraned contempt for catholics and suspission of other churches (children realy are like sponges and can absorb attitudes not just what is told to them)

i never looked for annother church but belived god would show me his will, haveing a close friend become a christian and invite me to her church seemed like god throwing me a rope. i went along and found a freedom i had never felt in my life.

it took much longer for me to let go of the lies i had learnt than it did to get the nerve to leave. (still find it amusing the way my parents reacted when i told them about the church id been going to, my dad insisted on going to a meeting an check it out- make sure i haddnt joind a cult!! 10 yrs later they still attend there)

i find myself still finding bits of rever theoligy sticking to me and having to let it go (always a liberating experience)

FG will probably never accept the problem with thr revival thoungs heresy untill he does.

and scott1 is right, knowing the truth how can he keep silent? he is also right that FG doesnt want to leave the rf he is happy where he is

but was i unsaved when i belived that my speaking in toungs was the sign?? if that is so how come i have felt god in my life all my life?

scott since you know the way you are going about getting frank to see the truth isnt working- have you thought about finding annother approch? for me reading your please concider website helped me hugly BUT i was looking for answers, i went already knowing there was something wrongand neededing not an oppinion but scriptures to show me the truth, i might not have been as receptive if i still belived in the revival ci/f

sea urchin sees frank on a journy and loves hearing what god is doing in his life (acctualy i think she loves hearing what god does in everyones life- and should spend some time talking to my sister they would both get alot out of it)

keeping with that annalogy- frank is on a journy, part of it was to come on this forum, only god knows where it will end but since i know we have all seen changes in frank i hope it ends with frank living in the truth and spending eternity with god

where i am on my journy is probably much harder to define

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 4:17 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free

Guys (and gals).

Thanks to those who've 'PM-ed' or emailed me re: this issue, and have shared their views on the merits or otherwise of my approach with respect to Frank. I appreciate you sharing your respective opinions, but please understand this: I'm not that interested in establishing some sort of jolly cyber relationship with Frank. Seeking popularity with him, or with others, simply isn't why I post here

I see Frank more as your run-of-the-mill sort of Revivalist. If I might make a comparison, Frank's theological opinions, when matters boil right down to basics, aren't that far removed from 'GWMs'; Frank simply comes across as being a little more personable

From where I sit the truth hasn't changed. It's still true irrespective of whether the 'pill' is easy to swallow or hard. And the issues that I've been seeking to raise with Frank have eternal consequences, irrespective of whether he (or others) are prepared to consider matters through to their eventual conclusions.

Does the gospel save? Can one be in a right relationship with God if one preaches a false gospel? Does it really matter? Well, Scripture addresses each of these questions, and quite clearly. But I'll close for now with the following observation: there are likely to be very many Revivalists on the Day of Judgment who don't hear, "Well done, thy good and faithful servant..." Why? Simple: they just don't know Jesus. In short, they've neither heard nor responded to the simple, biblical gospel

A few brief thoughts from nasty ol' SOTT

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 4:43 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : break free

but was i unsaved when i belived that my speaking in toungs was the sign?? if that is so how come i have felt god in my life all my life?  scott since you know the way you are going about getting frank to see the truth isnt working- have you thought about finding annother approch? for me reading your please concider website helped me hugly BUT i was looking for answers, i went already knowing there was something wrongand neededing not an oppinion but scriptures to show me the truth, i might not have been as receptive if i still belived in the revival ci/f. sea urchin sees frank on a journy and loves hearing what god is doing in his life (acctualy i think she loves hearing what god does in everyones life- and should spend some time talking to my sister they would both get alot out of it). Keeping with that annalogy- frank is on a journy, part of it was to come on this forum, only god knows where it will end but since i know we have all seen changes in frank i hope it ends with frank living in the truth and spending eternity with god.   where i am on my journy is probably much harder to define


Hi Break Free (LOVE that name)

but was i unsaved when i belived that my speaking in toungs was the sign??

Not being a scholar like SOTT1, I can only explain things in a simple (sea urchin) kind of way.  I don't believe that God (who knows all things) would not save us even if we believed that "speaking in tongues was the sign'" at some stage of our walks.  We really only believed what we were taught and accepted as being the truth after all.  Let me state that I do not believe that speaking in tongues is a salvation issue at all.  However, I do pray in tongues and love it, but when I praise God in English I KNOW what I am saying and I KNOW that I am worshipping my God and Saviour Jesus Christ with all my heart and soul.

You are quite right Break Free, I absolutely LOVE hearing where people are at in their journeys and I also LOVE talking about where I'm at.   I love the fact that this is a non-judgemental forum (well, it's meant to be anyway!) where everyone can speak what's on their minds without fear of judgement - unlike the old RF days. Once we start judging we go back to our 'old ways' of what we were taught to do in RF (anyone/everyone who believed differently to RF was WRONG!!) 

I agree with what SOTT is saying about tongues not being the sign of salvation - there is NO scripture to support this and in fact there is plenty of scripture to support the fact that we are SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. I believe that our personal relationship with Jesus Christ, our belief in His life, death and resurrection and the fact that we have GOD in our hearts is what determines our salvation. Not sure whether SOTT will agree or disagree with this and I'm darn sure he'll turn it into a 1,000 word essay (please go easy on me SOTTI, LOL) but this is what I believe to be true.  It has only been 3 months since I left RF but I feel that I have grown (spiritually) heaps since that time and as I continue my walk I am confident that I will continue to grow and learn from reading God's word for myself.  

I respect where Frank is on his journey and will continue to pray for him as well as for all those at Toowoomba RF & along the east coast. I understand what he says about it being different there as I know of other RF assemblies that also operate in a slightly more 'spirit-led' way that the norm. I have confidence that FG will come to full revelation in his & GOD'S time without us hassling him!

Love to all in Christ's name, Sea Urchin

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 5:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Reply to : SOTT1Reply to : BrolgaGood morning, Brolga.May I ask S1, is this the same conclusion you come to when you consider the ways of the other mainline churches, Anglican, Catholic,etc.,?Well, here's the interesting thing: the 'mainline' churches (including the two that you mentioned above)haven'tgotten the gospel wrong. Whilst they certainly do have their own denominational 'quirks', theyhaven'tchucked out the biblical gospel message in preference for their own unique andalternateclaims (a la the Revivalists).I may be wrong, but referring to your postings on other threads, suggesting one should check-out these churches in looking for enlightenment etc., there seemed to be an air of approval about them coming from you. (Enpowerment topic 16/03/2007, for one).You're not wrong. Ididrecommend people ch

Hey Frank, when you come my way I will take you out for coffee just how you like it!!! Hold me to it.

Looking forward to meeting you, and having a down to earth chat. Very hard to do that with SOTT1 around.

SOTT1, do you think you have ALL the answers??? What about Homosexual ministers in the churches you say we should visit? Just to start with.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, shoot me down, call me a judge whatever. I could not care less. At the moment I would probably swap a day of my life for a week of ANY of yours! If I have EVER given the impression that I am better than anyone - tell me. And NO, I don't think I am better than the gay priest down the street, but you can't rebuke RF members and pastors and say the rest are fine.

as I love to tell people - WE ARE ALL WRONG!!!!!

Oh SOTT1, your the exception to swapping a day for a week. My brain would get very bored putting up with your lack of reality for a day. It's not your fault that you are so "informed"! Oh yeah, I extend that "we are all wrong" to you aswell. I hope you are "meek" enough to accept this! 

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 5:31 PMCopy HTML

response to : SOTT1 's comments


Frank's theological opinions, when matters boil right down to basics, aren't that far removed from 'GWMs'; Frank simply comes across as being a little more personable

Personable how nice, I guess that sounds better than deceived, cursed.

And the issues that I've been seeking to raise with Frank have eternal consequences, irrespective of whether he (or others) are prepared to consider matters through to their eventual conclusions.

I have a suggestion for you Ian how about renaming 'Please Consider'

How about ' Salavation acccording to Sott1' or 'Either, believe this or Burn in Hell" or 'Sott's Way' I could go on but it gets a bit boring when you are as wittless as me. 

Give me a break - PLEASE CONSIDER are you joking, I read accepted your gentle offer to read, I am considering.

But mate you want to speak about GWM being full on.  Actually if I stand corrected you didn't think GWM was so bad, you were happy to have him around so you has someone to play with.

To those that are messaging me and asking that I stop and ignore Sott1 so we can get away from this stuff, I'm sorry. But this last one needed some sort of response.

PLEASE CONSIDER,       GIVE IT A REST.

 

 

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 9:00 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : all and sundry

Guys,

I'll try to address each of your most burning your points in turn:
SU)I agree with what SOTT is saying about tongues not being the sign of salvation - there is NO scripture to support this and in fact there is plenty of scripture to support the fact that we are SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. I believe that our personal relationship with Jesus Christ, our belief in His life, death and resurrection and the fact that we have GOD in our hearts is what determines our salvation. Not sure whether SOTT will agree or disagree with this and I'm darn sure he'll turn it into a 1,000 word essay (please go easy on me SOTTI, LOL) but this is what I believe to be true.

No need, what you've said above is a perfect summary of the gospel message However, I said a little more than just this. I also mentioned the implications and ramifications of actively preaching a false gospel according to Paul. Would anyone care to challenge his clearly stated beliefs on the subject?
Nahum)SOTT1, do you think you have ALL the answers??? What about Homosexual ministers in the churches you say we should visit? Just to start with.

All the answers? Hardly. Homosexual ministers are a definite 'no-no', irrespective of the denomination they represent. My references were to groups whose gospel message was orthodox. I didn't enter into discussion (nor did I even entertain such thoughts for a moment) about the individual sexual preferences of a select group of dissenting ministers!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, shoot me down, call me a judge whatever. I could not care less. At the moment I would probably swap a day of my life for a week of ANY of yours! If I have EVER given the impression that I am better than anyone - tell me. And NO, I don't think I am better than the gay priest down the street, but you can't rebuke RF members and pastors and say the rest are fine.

Try reading what I actually posted again (rather than reading your own biases into my post), then reflect a little on how you've completely misconstrued and misrepresented my position. My comments related to the orthodoxy of the gospel message of said denominations, when such is compared to the heterdoxy of the Revivalist message. The ONLY person who has said anything about gay priests, my friend, is you

Oh SOTT1, your the exception to swapping a day for a week. My brain would get very bored putting up with your lack of reality for a day. It's not your fault that you are so "informed"! Oh yeah, I extend that "we are all wrong" to you as well. I hope you are "meek" enough to accept this!

You assume a great deal, but it doesn't seem to me that said assumptions are based on anything more tangible than your own opinions and a quaint attempt at polemics I limit myself to presenting theological assessments that are based on, and derive from Scripture. What are yours based on, might I ask?
Frank) I have a suggestion for you Ian how about renaming 'Please Consider' How about ' Salavation acccording to Sott1' or 'Either, believe this or Burn in Hell" or 'Sott's Way' I could go on but it gets a bit boring when you are as wittless as me.

Well, you could do that, I suppose. On the other hand, I guess you might also have a closer look at what Scripture has to say about the matters under consideration. Now, where you can establish that its teachings and my descriptions of its teachings part ways, then you could justifiably rebuke me to your heart's content, and I will meekly bow my head and say, 'sorry, Frank. I've wrongly judged what you and your fellowship teaches.'

But mate you want to speak about GWM being full on. Actually if I stand corrected you didn't think GWM was so bad, you were happy to have him around so you has someone to play with.

How fickle people can become. When I invested a little of my time into demonstrating how wide of the Scriptural mark 'GWMs' opinions were, people seemed happy enough. However, when I dared to point out that the principle difference between 'GWMs' opinions and your own related more to how they were expressed than to their actual content, well then, I suddenly became the pariah. 'SOTT! How dare you challenge nice ol' Frankie that way?!'

Frank, you've not at any time indicated where or how you believe Paul's rebuke doesn't fit your particular circumstances. Is there any reason why?

Blessings one and all,

Ian

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 9:21 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Brolga

Hi, Brolga.

I was brought up in the Church of England and in early teens, started asking questions about Holy Ghost and what God was all about. I never could get any satisfactory answers, because I found the so called ministers of religion never had the answer themselves. They could only give opinions what it might be about, not once referred to the scriptures. How could they not have the gospel wrong when they never had it from the start?

I can't speak for the individual ministers that you encountered in the CofE of your youth. My comments were directed at what the Anglican Church appeals to as official doctrine, and the 'thirty-nine articles' are pretty cut-and-dried by my estimation.

From the Bible, I've never come across any instruction on reciting creeds or to celebrate Lent etc as they do. At least when I was introduced to Revival it opened up a whole different perspective on life where other religions could not.

The NT mentions a number of early Christian creeds throughout certain of Paul's letters, including: "Jesus is Lord!" and the famous 'Christ Hymn' of Philippians. In fact, the earliest universal creed, that known as the Nicene Creed, was an early baptismal confession, and is thoroughly orthodox. And, of course, it stands towards the heart of Anglican liturgy

May I say at this point in fairness to Revival Centers that they are not attacking individuals, but the system to be in error. So they claim!

And neither am I attacking individuals.

I said: there is absolutely no Catholic dogma that labels Mary Co-Redemptrix with Christ)

What? "Mary Mother of God". "Ever virgin" ? Catholics pray to her as mediator, do they not?

The 'Mother of God' statement refers to the Greek word 'Theotokos', which means, "the bearer of God", which she was. 'Ever Virgin' is a statement of faith and an article of belief; however, it has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic position on salvation. And Catholics may pray to Mary and Catholic saints to mediate on their behalf, and whilst I don't agree with that particular dogma, it does find a measure of support in the interceding saints under the altar of God as discussed in John's Revelation. But even then, it has nothing at all to do with your supposition that there is such a doctrine of Mary acting as Co-Redemptrix with Christ. Such just doesn't exist.

Catholics worship statues like pagans used to, couldn't this be classed as heresy?

Catholics and orthodox don't worship statues as pagans did at all. They venerate ikons as being visible representations of (currently) invisible reality.

Can we justify them being in ignorance also?

Nope. What you've assumed to be the case actually isn't the case at all.

I said: Revivalists, being fundamentally 'lazy' when it comes to checking out the validity of truth claims, never bother to seek out the facts.

Not this one. I always try to keep an open mind and see for myself what things are or might not be in the scriptures.

I would hope so, but you haven't checked your facts sufficiently with respect to the above points

Back to square one in deciding which way to go.

You seem to 'fold' a little too easily, brother.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 11:03 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : BrolgaHi, Brolga.I was brought up in the Church of England and in early teens, started asking questions about Holy Ghost and what God was all about. I never could get any satisfactory answers, because I found the so called ministers of religion never had the answer themselves. They could only give opinions what it might be about, not once referred to the scriptures. How could they not have the gospel wrong when they never had it from the start?I can't speak for theindividual ministersthat you encountered in the CofE of your youth. My comments were directed at what the Anglican Church appeals to as official doctrine, and the 'thirty-nine articles' are pretty cut-and-dried by my estimation.From the Bible, I've never come across any instruction on reciting creeds or to celebrate Lent etc as they do. At least when I was i

Not that you need it, but FWIW I agree with all you say and you have my  full support , I find your teaching always imformative,  and well researched, and the kind of teaching I am now hearing from the leadership in the church I now attend. When Frank first appeared on here I accused him of being a Revival apologist, who thought that changing the wrappings could make the REv, package respectable. Since then, despite many claims to be on a journey of enlightenment, I see nothing in his postings to change my original view, and along the way, he seems to have attracted an admiring circle of ex rev  revivalists, who encourage him.

Until he and others ,understand , and repent of preaching another gospel, they must expect to be brought to task on this  site, which as I understand it, was set up for all who have been hurt, and many who have been traumatised by their expierences in the cult that he is still an active member of.  Introducing new music, relaxing the control a little, changing the name even, wont mean a thing unless the doctrine of exclusivity, of supeirority of tongue speakers, and the ridiculous claim that tongues is the evidence of salvation, is abandonned.

Attacking the differences  of  approach to worship, and rubbishing everyone who does'nt follow religeously a supposed scriptural pattern adopted fairly recently in the history of Christianity, is surely a hallmark of Revivalism, which we would do well to erase from our mindsets, along with much of the other rubbish we aquired in our time among Franks brainwashed  flock. If I thought there was the least chance of Frank leading an Exodus into the freedom of the grace of God gospel, I would back him all the way, but saddly, I dont see it happening, just more of the same in bright new wrapping.

 

"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:02/04/2007 11:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : old holborn

Attacking the differences  of  approach to worship, and rubbishing everyone who does'nt follow religeously a supposed scriptural pattern adopted fairly recently in the history of Christianity, is surely a hallmark of Revivalism, which we would do well to erase from our mindsets, along with much of the other rubbish we aquired in our time among Franks brainwashed  flock. If I thought there was the least chance of Frank leading an Exodus into the freedom of the grace of God gospel, I would back him all the way, but saddly, I dont see it happening, just more of the same in bright new wrapping.

I know what you're saying Old H, and I agree on many levels.

I watched an episode of 'LIttle House on the Prairie' last week' (yes... and I listen to Enya sometimes.. sigh...) Anyway, in the episode "the Racoon", Laura befriends a tame racoon but pa won't let her keep it in the house because it's a wild animal. He gives in though and lets the racoon hang around, even though he knows that it can't really be tamed. When Laura is bitten by the racoon the threat of rabies looms etc.

This is really stupid but I see Frank as the racoon... He must be getting sick of being analysed and talked about, I"m sure - he's a great conversation point.. And I'm not saying he has rabies, but I am saying that for the time being, he is a racoon (so to speak) and we've let him in. He's not biting anyone much... but he has been taking some snips at anyone who comes too close.

When I started looking at this forum I was in the throes of leaving revival, and eventually did. When I started posting on the site after leaving the organisation, I still very very open to the tongues message but hoped my doubts about it could lead me somewhere. Changing that mindset and disassociating the tonguetrap from salvation was part Revelation, part epiphany and part reason...  With the help of Ian's and other websites I was able to come to my own conclusions. Frank may work that out and even if he starts playing with the idea then I don't envy the can of worms it will open up for him. Jumping down the rabbit hole means re-evaluating the whole universe, and struggling with sanity (well for me it was). Working out what to do after that is another huge step...

I think Frank is restless atm... he suspects there's more that Revival. He just doesn't want to go through the pain of change - it's much easier to hope change will come to him nice and easy... but change doesn't couple with 'easy' and I can relate. You can only take one step at at time and you can only take it from where you currently stand. I agree he's going to have to go through the millstone here sooner or later and see if his doctrine holds up.. if he's going to continue as a regular here. But for me Frank is just a dude, not really much different to other dudes... he's a dude in a little church, who subscribes to the possibility that his beliefs may be flawed when reflected from the bible. That (if that is true) in itself is something.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 5:11 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Reply to : old holbornAttacking the differences of approach to worship, and rubbishing everyone who does'nt follow religeously a supposed scriptural pattern adopted fairly recently in the history of Christianity, is surely a hallmark of Revivalism, which we would do well to erase from our mindsets, along with much of the other rubbish we aquired in our time among Franks brainwashed flock. If I thought there was the least chance of Frank leading an Exodus into the freedom of the grace of God gospel, I would back him all the way, but saddly, I dont see it happening, just more of the same in bright new wrapping.I know what you're saying Old H, and I agree on many levels.I watched an episode of'LIttle House on the Prairie' last week'(ye
Like the racoon comparison, it fits quite well , and I can see how the idea of taming a wild rever with gentleness, humouring his occasional  lapses has it's attractions, but the fact is they both have rabid tendancies that can be life threatening to a Christian, and require immunisation. So far this particular raccoon has refused the needle, ducking and weaving while trying to charm us with his cuddly ways and his displays of fervant spirituality, still holding up his hands in horror when told of the many bad bites we have recieved from his brother raccoons. Assuring us that there is wind of change sweeping through the racoonnery, but as far as I can see it's only cosmetic. They are still infecting people with their rabid doctrine, and closing their minds to the fact that they are wrong, and out of step with everyone else. And thats the main issue here as far as I am concerned.
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 6:44 AMCopy HTML

Joshua

There's a book called "Joshua" about the idea that Jesus came back today for a stroll around the earth. It's a fictional 'what-if' story and a best selling series of novels and dvd that you can find at any local christian store. It has him visiting all sort of churches; anywhere that praises his father's name. The interactions he has with the Catholic priests in one town was particularly itneresting... he then goes to the Vatican to see the pope and has a bit of a talking to to him. It's a very nice movie and it really changed my attitiude towards Catholics.

Stars Tony Goldwyn and F.Murray Abraham

 

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 7:00 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : old holborn


Sobering comments, I'll see if I can contiue to unwrap.

Easter should be fun, I'll us eit as a training ground.

Heb:12 ;29 The God I worship is still a consuming fire, If I'm in error he's the one I'll seek for revelation, it's never been any different.

The forum is a fascinating place as we speak out of the ubundance of or little hearts, how many after all would ever use such a medium. So with varying intelects we do the best we can, putting ourselves out to dry, ettempting to develop thoughts and ideas , exposing them to this little world of diverse people. Knowing full well that each thought is being made available to be weighed, judged, annilized etc etc. Where else do we ever let such a thing happen, families, churches maybe. It's pretty gutsy stuff to hang around the same place for a while even a few years know your past words are how you are seen.

So with words I say happy Passover.

Why is it I'm humming the tune of Rocky Raccoon, did someone say racoon.

Thanks for the PM's & one and all for your comments. I'm sure many are all sick of seeing FG being the centre of attention for so long.

I love a bit of attention seeking but I'm not sure that this quite what I had in mind, never the less lets us press on.

May God continue to bless each of us, keep safe over the break if you are having one.

Bye from a little card carrying RF (Racoon Friend)

 

Have a good Easter


it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 7:53 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Brolga

Good morning, Brolga.

Thanks for your reply. No I don't think I fold too easily. It is that I am a bit dissapointed, how at first your enlightenment to some of the errors of Revivalist thinking and confirmed a lot along the line of what I could see for myself, even in my limited capacity, that you could now tell me, some of the ways of worship of those religions are accepted by the Lord.

Here's the rub: what you currently believe to be true concerning those 'other' denominations that we've briefly touched on, is just as much a part of your Revivalist indoctrination baggage as is the 'tongues' equals salvation nonsense that you've been working through. Might I ask you this: do you honestly believe that God gets as 'wrapped around the axles' about specific 'worship styles' as we fallen humans do?! Consider, 'worship styles/practices/methods' are largely cultural constructs. Consequently, I reckon you'd get pretty edgy if you were to witness West African Christian worship up close and in full swing, or Eastern Orthodox worship, or Roman Catholic worship or whatever. Why? Because such isn't what you've been conditioned to accept as 'normal'. However, what the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do when they worship is, bye-and-large, what they've been doing since the middle second century! Who are you or I to suggest that what they do is 'deficient'? Further, it's those two specific groups that were responsible for most of the Christian evangelism undertaken in the first millenium, and those two groups are the ones who thrashed out such crucial theological positions as the nature of the Trinity. You're grossly mistaken if you believe that they've got the wrong end of the theological 'stick' because they use "bells and smells" in their liturgy

It seems to me what you are saying, you can follow God in any form or capacity, but not the Revival way. I've sure wasted a lot of years, hey!

That's not what I'm suggesting at all, but it does seem to be what you're thinking. I'm sure God is just as happy with how the West African Christians in their cultural context worship him as he is how you worship him in your context. But this discussion isn't now, and never has been about Revivalist worship. The topic began as a brief discussion on the orthodoxy or otherwise of the Revivalist gospel message as compared to the orthodox and historic Christian gospel as expressed by such groups as the Roman Catholics and Anglicans. To be honest, that's not a particularly subtle distinction.

Not intending to be judgemental, but you don't have to be a Revivalist to see clearly instructions from Christ himself, things like, call no man father .........but God is your father...... Catholic priests are called "father", even the Pope is called the "Holy Father".

That's quite a bit anachronistic, if you ask me! If the above is what was meant, then why did it take 400 years before the Roman Catholic Church adopted the common title, 'Father'? Who was being called 'Father' in that capacity in the interim? Answer: NOBODY, so clearly what you're suggesting is off the mark

What Christ was referring to was the concept that the Fatherhood of God (i.e. the rights that he has to our obedience) take priority over the rights that any mortal can lay claim to. His was a PATRIARCHAL society, remember? It has NOTHING AT ALL to do with addressing a Roman Catholic pastor as 'father'.

Maybe I am still too much indoctrinated by RC teachings but will still press on with open mind to come to the right conclusion, if there is such a thing to be revealed.

Can I suggest that it seems that you very much are still bound by your former Revivalist mindset?

God bless,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 8:04 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank,

Heb:12 ;29 The God I worship is still a consuming fire, If I'm in error he's the one I'll seek for revelation, it's never been any different.

It's funny, but you don't really believe that at all.

Western Christians tend be the most individualistic in the entire world, because western culture promotes the rights and authority of the individual over and against the community with respect to self determination. So for you to state that the only 'stuff' you're prepared to accept as factual, is the 'stuff' that God deigns to give to you via individual 'self-revelation' is not only incredibly arrogant, it's also incredibly self-deceptive. But, as I've already said, you don't really believe what you've claimed at all. Consider, you've spent your entire Revivalist history accepting the pronouncements of men, like Lloyd Longfield, and then without quibble!

To close, you are in error, Frank, and God's shouting at you and waving his arms via this forum, my own somewhat limited exegeses and so forth, hoping that you'll sit up and notice. But, like the typical Revivalist that you are, you won't listen because you're too busy saying, "...Lord, if you're there, make the cupboard door slam three times!"

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 8:13 AMCopy HTML

Sorry Sott

i cant agree with your view on the catholic church as being O.K. to check out. I am not sure on whether or not that they claim that Mary is a co mediatrix with jesus or not. But i only know what i was taught many years ago.

This not to pray to Jesus but to pray to Mary for what you wanted and she would expose her breasts ( Sorry ladies ) to Jesus with your petition and that as he was her son he could not refuse her and so he would grant the request.   Another one is that after Mary died she was resurrected on the third day into heaven.      How about the Pope being God on earth.      I could list DOZENS OF OTHER HERESIES such as this one all taught to me in my early years, but i cant be bothered

So dont really care whether or not official Catholic doctrine does or dosent say that Mary is a co mediatrix with Jesus or not.   I think its dangerous to suggest that its o.k. to check it out.

Chris7

I

 

 

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 8:43 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : chris7

Chris,

First, thanks for sharing your views with me.

i cant agree with your view on the catholic church as being O.K. to check out. I am not sure on whether or not that they claim that Mary is a co mediatrix with jesus or not. But i only know what i was taught many years ago.

Sure. Do you think it even slightly possible that you've misunderstood what you were taught, or that what you were taught was actually wrong?

This not to pray to Jesus but to pray to Mary for what you wanted and she would expose her breasts ( Sorry ladies ) to Jesus with your petition and that as he was her son he could not refuse her and so he would grant the request.

Well, I pray regularly with a group of Roman Catholics, and I can assure you that they do, in fact, pray directly to Jesus.

Another one is that after Mary died she was resurrected on the third day into heaven.

So? Does the Catholic belief in the Ascension of Mary affect, in any way, shape or form, a person's spiritual standing with God? Incidentally, Christianity has taught from the very beginning, that when a believer dies that he or she is translated immediately into Christ's presence. So, in effect, the Catholic case with Mary ain't all that spectacular

How about the Pope being God on earth.

Sorry, but that isn't what the Roman Catholic Church teaches at all. What they do teach is that the pope is the successor to Peter as the bishop of Rome. Peter never claimed to be God, did he?

I could list DOZENS OF OTHER HERESIES such as this one all taught to me in my early years, but i cant be bothered

I wish you would, though, as I'd relish the opportunity of blowing away a few misconceptions that are held by Revivalists concerning the Church of Rome. Personally, I've found that TRUTH is th best cure for error.

So dont really care whether or not official Catholic doctrine does or dosent say that Mary is a co mediatrix with Jesus or not. I think its dangerous to suggest that its o.k. to check it out.

And you're certainly entitled to your view on this particular issue, irrespective of whether or not it's based in any way on the facts. Speaking for myself, I've spent and awful lot of years studying the Bible and theology, challenging my previous beliefs and conceptions against the facts as they really are. And it seems that I've come to a completely different place to you on this topic. That might have something to do with the fact that I have a bit to do with Catholics, and I don't fear what I don't understand.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 10:45 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1


Heb:12 ;29 The God I worship is still a consuming fire, If I'm in error he's the one I'll seek for revelation, it's never been any different.

It's funny, but you don't really believe that at all.

Like I said in another spot today, we're judged by our words all the time (by every word) and much of the time I hear my words and they tyhey are sloppy. If there is one thing I do agree I've been lazy in the word of God. So as 'iron sharpens iron' some of you are assisting. I'll press in a little harder.

I think it was Paul who said "you have many teachers but not many fathers". As far as what I truely believe Sott1, you might be many things to this forum, but a father to me you are not. As for teaching I'm sure I had some teachers like you at school, in fact there's been a few pass through my life over 50 years.

I do not have your grasp of Greek or for that matter language, however I feel (yes feel) many things that I would never bring to you or this forum, especially you. The safety factor is just not there. You are what you are, however one of those things you are not is a mind reader, nor will you know my heart.

Even as I read what I'm writing now I do so with knowledge that it will probably be re-posted, highlighted and pulled appart, so be it.

Like I said,  Your offer is to 'Please Consider '    not   'Please Agree'.

Of course there is more I could say, but that will do for now. Rocky needs a rest from the brain drain.

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 10:59 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank,

No response to the above is either required or necessary from me. I'll simply quote the footer that appears on each and every one of your posts:

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.

The above pretty well sums it up, I suppose. If you seriously believe what this implies, and will act on said belief, then I'll be content

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 11:02 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : old holborn
still holding up his hands in horror when told of the many bad bites we have recieved from his brother raccoons

Now Mr Holborn, I think that you had better go back over my postings to see that that is true. I may be many things to this forum but hands in horror at abuse is not one of them.

Sorry friend you don't have to a mind reader to know what I'm up to, it's all over the forum.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 11:23 AMCopy HTML

Sott

I was taught by priests of the order of St Vincent De Paul.   In fact all of the teachers at my school were priests.

If the things that i mentioned were wrong teaching or not i dont know    but this i do know that it was not born of any of my misunderstanding....  In my Catholic missal ( which i discarded years ago )that  it stated that mary acended into heaven on the third day after her death and it also showed Peter ( named ) and thwo or three others.....cant quite remember .....with their arms raised toward her in veneration as she ascended into heaven

At my confirmation when i was 8 years old the bishop said that i had received the holy spirit along with the other 15 or so   DONT THINK SO just because he said so.     What about the sacrament of transubstantiation ( for those of you who have never heard of the term ) that the bread and wine at communion actually turns into the actual body and blood of Jesus.

It was a mortal sin ( which means going to Hell if you have one on your soulwhen you die ) if one didnt go the church on any Sunday or any other of the "holy days of obligation" of which one fell on my birthday. All Catholic schools had holy days of obligation off   So if there was any good thing i never once in my school life went to school on all saints day !!!  The only way to get the mortal sin removed was to go to confession in front of the priest and confess the mortal sin any whilst you were at it you could confess ant venial (pardonable) sins that you may have.  Pennance was a number of Hail Mary,s and a few Our Fathers.

It was clearly stated that the pope was claimed to be God on earth      no misunderstanding there.    No of course Peter never claimed that title, (i didnt say he did ).  In any case didnt Peter say to Cornelius in Acts chapter 10 verses 25 and 26 "and as Peter was coming in Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him. But Peter took him up saying "stand i myself also am a man"   Even if what i had drummed into me as a lad is not what is taught now, How do they cope with the veneration of the Pope now who reaches his hand out to be kissed now. 

I was amazed to think that someone thought i was sprouting Revivalist teaching    Tthe things that i learned about the Catholic church were many years ago.   They were grooming me to be a priest.

I AM NOT A REVIVALIST     repeat      I AM NOT A REVIVALIST    SORRY Sott and Brolga

I will not address this topic any more because there is no fruit in it     Sott you wont get another reply out of me even though i know that you will reply to my post.

What,s written so far on any of the threads on this site is from personal experiences of mainly ex revival centre people and i believe what they say       whoever reads this post can choose to believe what i say or not

Chris7

 

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 12:16 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : chris7

Hi, Chris.

Thanks for the extra info, and for supplying a little more context regarding your concerns about the Church of Rome, and where you were coming from.

My recommendation still remains that open-minded people who are interested in the matter, should check out a local Catholic church for themselves. I haven't, and wouldn't recommend that they do so uncritically. Side issues aside, however, it remains a fact that the Roman Catholic Church does preach a fully orthodox gospel (whatever else might be said about some of their other defining beliefs)

Thanks again for the update.

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 7:32 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Reply to : old holbornstill holding up his hands in horror when told of the many bad bites we have recieved from his brother raccoonsNow Mr Holborn, I think that you had better go back over my postings to see that that is true. I may be many things to this forum but hands in horror at abuse is not one of them.Sorry friend you don't have to a mind reader to know what I'm up to, it's all over the forum.

Well Frank I did'nt need to go back too far to find, and I quote :-

08/03/07  09;15;55 AM

" do yourself a favour check this site out, how many hurt, wounded and abused saints do you see. Are they all malcontents? Are they all trouble makers? .....................

.....................Hey, I havent been hurt, but my shepherds heart is breaking at the CARNAGE here" Unquote

I guess I could find others if I had the time,  You were acknowledging  the hurt and abuse, and expressing sorrow. Holding up hands in horror? Thats just an expression I used, but I think it fits the case. I have acnowledged that you have a zeal, and a heart for God, I just pray that you like Saul, will be converted soon from this RF error over tongues/salvation.and  continue to use your zeal to bring lost sheep into the saving  grace of our  Lord  Jesus. 

,I hope you too have a happy Easter.

God bless.

OH

 

 

"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 9:57 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

SU, what Frank supports (and he does) and preaches (and he does) is poison. It kills people spiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hose

Did this poison kill you spiritually SOTT1? I wouldn't use a large hose or spit on a fire which God 'may have' started.

Frank is, like almost everyone on here (there are a few exceptions, SOTT1 seems like he has arrived), on a journey. I am learning heaps on here to and am challenged continually but my relationship with Jesus is not based on how fast I can type (which I am starting to impress myself with, using more than 2 fingers nowadays), or how intellectual I try and sound, or becoming a "Ghost in the machine", but by spending time with HIM in the "closet" so HE can reward me openly! I will continue to say we are all wrong and each of us carries poison which we do use from time to time, but it doesn't have to kill us! Mark 16 says we can drink any deadly thing and it will not hurt us. Also mentions casting out devils, taking up serpents, laying hands on the sick and one other which escapes at present. LOL

By the way, I would love to be a "ghost in the machine" even if just for my ego. Ha Ha

Happy Easter everyone, have a great BBQ on friday with the catholics!!!

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:03/04/2007 10:56 PMCopy HTML

Nahum you are so naughty!!!!

I like what you say and in eccence agree, however it must be said that this is an open forum and all including sott1 are allowed to post there view, you or may not agree with everything said, thats cool we dont have to. We just get on with our own walk and relationship with God and yea buddy the prayer closet is a great place,(note to self you really must do this more).

Hope that you get to catch up with the ones you intend to this weekend I know it will be good for you to see this person/s and let them minister to you,(hope thats not to vauge)  let me know how it all goes my friend, hang in there buddy day by day here alittle there a little

 

earth5

 

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 12:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Nahum 1v7

Reply to : SOTT1SU, what Franksupports(and he does) and preaches (and he does) ispoison. Itkills peoplespiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hoseDid this poison kill you spiritually SOTT1? I wouldn't use a large hose or spit on a fire which God 'may have' started.Frank is, like almost everyone on here (there are a few exceptions, SOTT1 seems like he has arrived), on a journey. I am learning heaps on here to and am challenged continually but my relationship with Jesus is not based on how fast I can type (which I am starting to impress myself with, using more than 2 fingers nowadays), or how intellectual I try and sound, or becoming

I'm not sure if we're all wrong, but I can understand where you're coming from. I'm sure we're all wrong about something but not completely wrong about everything. Some of us are more wrong than others but it would be wrong to say that others are wrong because we hope they all are. I think you hope we're all wrong because then we'll all stand there on the last day of our life in the same row with all the other wrong people.

For example, it's right I think to say that Ian thinks wrongly about some things, but it isn't right to say he's completely wrong. As a serious student of the bible he is very much more right than someone like me but hopefully he realises he could be better. I'm sure he does. As an agnostic passive atheist with borderline Universalist tendencies, I am considerably right, but wrong in the eyes of another... but not acturally wrong in my own eyes. I'm sure Ian admits there's always more to learn. Now see as a Revivalist, Frank is not wrong, but as a student of the bible he is very wrong. Hopefully in time he can be more right. People like GWM won't accept that they could be wrong and that makes them the most incorrect of all... and that's just not right.

We all do have toxic poison beliefs from each other's point of view. GWM's was toxic to me... my disbelief was toxic to him perhaps. scriptures don't really work on me because I don't believe they've been fully inspired by god. So private messaging me won't get you anywhere...that's just harrassment still and a violation of the inspired books he quotes from. I found the ignore button under the private message box, so I won't have to read his prattling on crap anymore... like talking to a drunken wookie.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 12:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Nahum 1v7

Reply to : SOTT1SU, what Franksupports(and he does) and preaches (and he does) ispoison. Itkills peoplespiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hoseDid this poison kill you spiritually SOTT1? I wouldn't use a large hose or spit on a fire which God 'may have' started.Frank is, like almost everyone on here (there are a few exceptions, SOTT1 seems like he has arrived), on a journey. I am learning heaps on here to and am challenged continually but my relationship with Jesus is not based on how fast I can type (which I am starting to impress myself with, using more than 2 fingers nowadays), or how intellectual I try and sound, or becoming

I'm not sure if we're all wrong, but I can understand where you're coming from. I'm sure we're all wrong about something but not completely wrong about everything. Some of us are more wrong than others but it would be wrong to say that others are wrong because we hope they all are. I think you hope we're all wrong because then we'll all stand there on the last day of our life in the same row with all the other wrong people.

For example, it's right I think to say that Ian thinks wrongly about some things, but it isn't right to say he's completely wrong. As a serious student of the bible he is very much more right than someone like me but hopefully he realises he could be better. I'm sure he does. As an agnostic passive atheist with borderline Universalist tendencies, I am considerably right, but wrong in the eyes of another... but not acturally wrong in my own eyes. I'm sure Ian admits there's always more to learn. Now see as a Revivalist, Frank is not wrong, but as a student of the bible he is very wrong. Hopefully in time he can be more right. People like GWM won't accept that they could be wrong and that makes them the most incorrect of all... and that's just not right.

We all do have toxic poison beliefs from each other's point of view. GWM's was toxic to me... my disbelief was toxic to him perhaps. scriptures don't really work on me because I don't believe they've been fully inspired by god. So private messaging me won't get you anywhere...that's just harrassment still and a violation of the inspired books he quotes from. I found the ignore button under the private message box, so I won't have to read his prattling on crap anymore... like talking to a drunken wookie.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 5:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

Reply to : Nahum 1v7Reply to : SOTT1SU, what Franksupports(and he does) and preaches (and he does) ispoison. Itkills peoplespiritually, and I for one am not the sort of person who is going to sit by and 'spit' on a 'fire' when what is really required is a very large hoseDid this poison kill you spiritually SOTT1? I wouldn't use a large hose or spit on a fire which God 'may have' started.Frank is, like almost everyone on here (there are a few exceptions, SOTT1 seems like he has arrived), on a journey. I am learning heaps on here to and am challenged continually but my relationship with Jesus is not based on how fast I can type (which I am starting to impress myself with, using more than 2 fingers nowadays), or how intellectual I try and sound, or becomingI'm not sure if
  What are you on Moth? I'm not going to reply twice, altho. you posted twice, (and it was twice as enjoyable) If you werent here to deflate our pomposity at times , it would get awful tedious.
"But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord "
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 7:10 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : old holborn

Reply to : franks ghostReply to : old holbornstill holding up his hands in horror when told of the many bad bites we have recieved from his brother raccoonsNow Mr Holborn, I think that you had better go back over my postings to see that that is true. I may be many things to this forum but hands in horror at abuse is not one of them.Sorry friend you don't have to a mind reader to know what I'm up to, it's all over the forum.Well Frank I did'nt need to go back too far to find, and I quote :-08/03/07 09;15;55 AM" do yourself a favour check this site out, how many hurt, wounded and abused saints do you see. Are they all malcontents? Are they all trouble makers? .....................................
Ok OH point taken. I am currently going up against no less than 3 Rabid Racoons, while at the same time working on my relationship as well as being a force for good wher ever I can.
it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 7:38 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Nahum 1v7

'morning, Nahum.

Interesting post I guess I can sum up my POV this way: opinions are like backsides--everybody has one. But here's the caveat: not all opinions are equally as informed, consequently, not all opinions are equal. Perhaps an illustration is in order. When I'm feeling ill, I could ask my mate who has done a basic first aid course what he reckons is wrong with me, and he might give me his opinion. I could then ask my mate who is a medical doctor what he reckons is wrong, and listen to his opinion. Having done both, it's THEN left to me to decide who is more qualified (and therefore the more credible) to be providing the opinion that I should probably listen to.

Funny, we all do this when it comes to medical issues; however, when it comes to the Bible and matters theological, each of us reckons that we're the expert! Considering our current discussion, who among us best qualifies as 'first aiders', and who among us best qualifies as 'doctors'?

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 7:53 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : Nahum 1v7'morning, Nahum.Interesting postI guess I can sum up my POV this waypinions are like backsides--everybody has one. But here's the caveat:not allopinions are equally as informed, consequently,not allopinions are equal. Perhaps an illustration is in order. When I'm feeling ill, I could ask my mate who has done a basic first aid course what he reckons is wrong with me, and he might give me his opinion. I could then ask my mate who is a medical doctor what he reckons is wrong, and listen to his opinion. Having done both, it's THEN left to me to decide who ismore qualified(and therefore the more credible) to be providing the opinion that I should probably listen to.Funny, wealldo this when it comes tomedic
Isn't it at this point the scipture will tell us "by their fruit you will know them".
it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 8:16 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank,

The assumption that I was working with, was that all the parties to the discussion are Christian But your comment WRT 'fruit' is certainly well placed. I guess one indication of said 'fruit' would be to reflect on who among the parties to the conversation have engaged in personality-directed attacks, and who haven't. Wouldn't you agree?

Blessings,

Ian
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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 8:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : SOTT1

Reply to : Nahum 1v7'morning, Nahum.Interesting postI guess I can sum up my POV this waypinions are like backsides--everybody has one. But here's the caveat:not allopinions are equally as informed, consequently,not allopinions are equal. Perhaps an illustration is in order. When I'm feeling ill, I could ask my mate who has done a basic first aid course what he reckons is wrong with me, and he might give me his opinion. I could then ask my mate who is a medical doctor what he reckons is wrong, and listen to his opinion. Having done both, it's THEN left to me to decide who ismore qualified(and therefore the more credible) to be providing the opinion that I should probably listen to.Funny, wealldo this when it comes tomedic

Ahhh yes, so I assume you see yourself as the "doctor" and me and perhaps others as mere "first aid officers"? Or maybe you are the PROUD DOCTOR and we are the HUMBLE FIRST AID OFFICERS!!!

Just remember, God resists the proud and gives greace to the humble.

Why do you see the bible as a theological matter? I rather see it as a sprirtual matter, one in which the natural mind - the one you like to entertain us with - cannot receive!

Blessings Doc,

Nahum

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 8:25 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : MothandRust

I'm not sure if we're all wrong, but I can understand where you're coming from. I'm sure we're all wrong about something but not completely wrong about everything. Some of us are more wrong than others but it would be wrong to say that others are wrong because we hope they all are. I think you hope we're all wrong because then we'll all stand there on the last day of our life in the same row with all the other wrong people.


Hey Moth, I guess I am coming from the point of view that none of us are right all the time and in everything, therefore in one thing or another we are all wrong. I am sure it is in more than one thing for all of us.

Something for you guys to enjoy: In RF they claim to be "the right church", there is only one of those being the body of Christ, those who are baptised by one spirit into. So RF, like all other churches, is not "the right church" but hopefully people there have a right relationship with Jesus Christ and worship the ONE TRUE GOD!

 

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 8:28 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5

Nahum you are so naughty!!!!I like what you say and in eccence agree, however it must be said that this is an open forum and all including sott1 are allowed to post there view, you or may not agree with everything said, thats cool we dont have to. We just get on with our own walk and relationship with God and yea buddy the prayer closet is a great place,(note to self you really must do this more).Hope that you get to catch up with the ones you intend to this weekend I know it will be good for you to see this person/s and let them minister to you,(hope thats not to vauge) let me know how it all goes my friend, hang in there buddy day by day here alittle there a littleearth5

I don't try and be naughty. Of course I don't agree with everything that others say, sometimes don't even agree with what I say after reading it , but did at the time. I guess that is part of change. 2 weeks ago I beleived my lawn didn't need to be cut, I definately don't beleive that today! Understand the open forum, open for me too I hope???

Anyway, will let you know about weekend and no, you weren't too vague.

Am hanging in there, just sometimes, fully at others.

God bless,

Nahum FAO

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Re:Ian's frank convo with Frank (inc. Catholocism)

Date Posted:04/04/2007 9:12 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Nahum 1v7

Well hello again, Nahum.

Ahhh yes, so I assume you see yourself as the "doctor" and me and perhaps others as mere "first aid officers"? Or maybe you are the PROUD DOCTOR and we are the HUMBLE FIRST AID OFFICERS!!!

Well, first up, I've not seen much in the way of humility coming from your keyboard, brother. Lots of judgment that's been based on nothing more substantial than personal opinion, but not humility or openness to correction from God's Word, and that's what truly counts. Second, whether you care to accept it or not, your capacity for sound biblical interpretation isn't at the level of my own. Hardly a boast, simply a fact. For what it's worth, I personally doubt that I'm any 'smarter' than you, it's just the case that I've applied myself to developing competence in the task more than you have.

Just remember, God resists the proud and gives greace to the humble.

He does indeed

Why do you see the bible as a theological matter? I rather see it as a sprirtual matter, one in which the natural mind - the one you like to entertain us with - cannot receive!

Ah, yes, the hue and cry of the Revivalist Sorry, friend, but you've much to learn if the above is truly representative of your views.

Blessings,

The 'Doc' (in about another 3 years, all going well)
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