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Date Posted:17/03/2010 2:16 AMCopy HTML

Let's try again shall we?

If anyone has rejected Christianity or has genuine questions about the validity of the entire religion then I would be very happy to discuss that here.

I have come to a place of unbelief myself, after having been very involved in the RCI then AOG and Churches of Christ for years and years.

I have a somewhat condensed version of my story here if you wanna know where I am coming from.

Christians are free to post responses in this thread of course but must abide by the rules of the forum and refrain from preaching at people and the pronouncing of eternal judgements.

This is an Ian Free Zone.
LifeIsNotARehearsal Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:17/03/2010 7:05 AMCopy HTML

Hi Troy,

 

Firstly, I have to say that I am encouraged by the presence of a non-religious voice here.

 

I’ve not participated in this forum nearly as much as I would have liked to. I grew up in the GRC and this is the most visible ‘recovery’ forum on the net – but (almost) everyone on here's a god-botherer! As an atheist on this forum, I have two choices – have running flame wars with people who believe they need to convince me to believe in their fairy tales or stay away. I didn’t leave the GRC due to some belief that God can be found elsewhere in a less controlling environment - I’m ex-GRC because I’m one of the many millions who think that the whole ‘God’ bizzo is nonsense.

 

I think this forum is so religiously inclined that it is of very limited use to someone contemplating leaving a cult like the GRC. Personally, I think it’s even dangerous.

 

Dangerous? Yes, but not to the same extent or for the same reasons that the GRC is dangerous. I say it’s dangerous because as people are contemplating making a break from their respective cult, they are probably reading this forum. And the message on this forum, loud and clear, is that they need to replace one brand of garbage (for example, the GRC) with another, slightly less controlling brand of garbage (insert name of your favourite evangelical group here). And then SNAP… the ex cult member is now a member of another, more mainstream, but still mind-controlling cult. He/she hasn’t even had a moment to think their exit strategy through without someone preaching at them.

 

I genuinely hope, for the sake of people who do actually turn to this forum for help and guidance, that this section and sections of the forum devoted to providing advice to the vulnerable minds of cult-leavers, remains religion-free.

 

Let’s see if we can bring some balance back to this forum. The forum has a potentially significant role to play in the lives of those who need help recovering from indoctrination and mind-control.

 

 

Regards,

Sean.

...and on the Eighth Day, Man created God.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:18/03/2010 2:33 AMCopy HTML

 Sean

I'm glad you're positive about the new direction for these 2 rooms.  That makes a few of us.

The thing that has become most apparent to me over the last few days is the sheer hypocrisy of the religious camp on here. (It shouldn't be too surprising I guess, seeing as religion and hypocrisy tend to go hand in hand. Even the Jesus of the Bible had a thing or two to say about it.)  They carry on about themselves being silenced and censored as if they were being fed to the lions, but in truth it is we who are asking for balance after a long Dark Ages of Christian domination on this forum.  it's funny, as a Christian I would he told of the Christian persecution by heathen and Atheists. Now as an Agnostic, I am exposed to 'the other side' which is stories of the persecution of skeptics and doubters throughout history by the Church. It still happens today of course, especially in the USA.

it seems that BOTH sides have been at fault. Both sides have persecuted others. Both sides have demonised the other. No one is faultless.  I wish the Christians here would see that and not just play so much 'us and them'.

The lesson here is tolerance.  I would be sadly disappointed if this forum became an Athesit/Agnostic board.  That would be just as great a crime as when it was solely a Christian one.  I think the goal should be for a tolerant, inclusive, free forum where Christians can do as they please and unbelievers can do the same...but responsibly and with tolerance.  I'm sure mistakes will be made as we strive for this goal and people will spit the dummy and leave. That's fine. It's not a Church or an organisation. It's an Internet discussion forum.  I live in China. I live in a repressive society. I live in a place where you must (even still!) look over your shoulder and be careful of what you say. When people talk about being censored or being persecuted for their faith on an Internet forum, I have to laugh.  They speaketh crap.  ;)

I'm still keen to hear your deconversion story though. How did you come to a place of unbelief after having once been a believer?
LifeIsNotARehearsal Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:18/03/2010 7:01 AMCopy HTML

I should start by defining my beliefs. I’m 99.99% positive that there’s no God. I’m also 99.99% positive that there are no fairies hanging out with the leprechauns at the bottom of my garden – but only because I have no proof that they don’t exist.


This is a little longer than I originally intended, so I’ve put in some headings to assist readability…

 

In the beginning

My story starts 37 years ago when my parents joined the GRC (I was 6 months old). I lived a quiet childhood in the GRC. I mostly kept out of trouble and believed what I had been brought up in. When I turned 18 I found the lifestyle and controls too restrictive, which was the initial reason I left. I’ve very rarely seen my parents or siblings since then. This is my 20th year free of the GRC.

 

Shortly after leaving the GRC I began uni, studying a science degree. My old life seemed far behind me, but the nagging doubt was still there – what if it was true? I made sure I read up on civil defence tactics so that I would stand a better chance of surviving Armageddon – maybe I could repent after they dropped the bomb?

 

Enquiry

Inevitably, my science studies clashed with what I had been brought up to believe. I needed to get to the root of the problem. Who was right? Was there any proof? What are the arguments? What are the motivations of those doing the arguing? My investigations led me to spending every spare hour in the (extensive) uni library, reading and researching. I needed to know how life began. I needed to know what life was. I had a strong suspicion that there was something to evolution. I couldn’t reconcile the fact that virtually 100% of scientists disagreed with what I grew up to ‘know’ as fact. I needed to understand the biology of genetics – is evolution possible and in fact inevitable, and if so, where are the proofs?

 

Proof

And I found documented proof. Many thousands of volumes of irrefutable evidence. I soon dismissed those with not-so-hidden-agendas that use the language of science (but not the methods) to obfuscate and trick the lay-person into believing creationist tripe.

 

Homo eternalus?

This led me directly to my next questions:

 - at which point historically, was our ‘eternal soul’ implanted in us?

 - how is a new one made - is it passed on biologically at conception?

 - where is the soul?

 - do dogs have souls?

 - what about homo erectus? (they are believed to have had religious rites and language)

 - maybe the first homo sapiens? (at least he was anatomically correct)

 - when and where was that cut-off point between animal and homo eternalus?

 - who was that lucky stone-age guy who got the first soul?

 - why him, why not his Dad?

 

Without the soul, even the most liberal of Christian claims are bunk. Certainly their threats are baseless.

 

The answer was staring me in the face: the literal claims of Christianity are completely incompatible with reality.

 

An inevitable conclusion…

So I continued my journey – I read about the human mind and it’s inherent, inevitable tendency to create the supernatural (usually in it’s own form). Cargo cults were one of my favourite subjects for a while. Click on the link for a read. What does it tell you about the human mind? What must the human mind do, in all cultures, in all places, in all peoples and in all times? Be honest with yourself – no-one’s listening to your thoughts…

 

 

I still read very widely and nothing in twenty years has come close to making God any more probable than those leprechauns.  

 

So that’s the short (incomplete) version of how I arrived at the inevitable conclusion that God is a creation of man. The only thing special about Jesus is that he’s the most popular of today’s gods. I don’t hate Christianity – it (or something like it) was inevitable. But I don’t like what it did (and still does) to my family.

 

 

Regards,

Sean.

...and on the Eighth Day, Man created God.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:19/03/2010 12:26 AMCopy HTML

Well Urchin has a point. it wasn't ALL Christians or ALL Christian churches that did what was done to you...or me.

But I tested the claims of classical/orthodox Christianity and they came up lacking. I have to agree with St. Paul that philosophically, the religion is foolishness (eee Corinthians).  But I don't believe that is because we are unenlightened, rather we have genuinely questioned the suppositions, archaic world views and superstitions the whole thing is founded upon.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:19/03/2010 6:18 AMCopy HTML

Hi Sea Urchin,

I'm going to agree with you on that point. Christianity itself did not do anything to my family. It was however done by individuals in the name of their brand of Christianity. Most mainstream varieties of Christianity would not have done this and in fact would be horrified at the things that the cults do (and get away with).

And regarding the soul...We all in a sense have a 'soul' and I'm about to enrich mine with a relaxing weekend in the Hunter Valley with my family. I was referring to the human construct, the 'immortal soul', that goes to heaven or hell for eternity.
...and on the Eighth Day, Man created God.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 9:13 AMCopy HTML

Galien

I'm not trying to tell you what you believe, but it kinda sounds to me like you still have a faith in God/Jesus but have lost faith in the Church. It sounds like you're trying to reject the whole shebang because of some lousy members.

As the bumper sticker says, "Jesus, save me from your followers."

As I said in my blog post, the behaviour of Xians is a good reason to doubt the truthfulness of the religion based on all the claims that it betters them, but I  think you need to explore that and see where it leads, otherwise you won't find a resolution to it all. Let the religion be untrue because it is untrue, not just because people wearing that label treated you like shit.



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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 9:32 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galian:
My experience at the church I go to is not like what you have experienced, and when things have been difficult for my family we have had plenty of help without judgement. Could be that country people are different? Would nt go to a pente church again though.
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 9:59 AMCopy HTML

I had my share of shit at church to be sure. But that being said, I had ONLY a good experience at South Melbourne Restoration Community (Church of Christ). The people were good-hearted, authentic and honest.

It closed down a few years back and the remnant morphed into more of a house church model with group meetings once a month. They now call themselves RED (
redachurch.wordpress.com) but I doubt I know anyone who belongs to it now.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 10:13 AMCopy HTML

If God exists at all, and the evidence is mounting to the contrary, I cannot believe he would be even slightly happy to be attached to the pathetic man made organisation that claims his name.

If copious amounts of vomit ever drop from the sky straight onto every church in the world I will not be the least bit suprised.
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 10:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien

If God exists at all, and the evidence is mounting to the contrary, I cannot believe he would be even slightly happy to be attached to the pathetic man made organisation that claims his name.

Well said.

If copious amounts of vomit ever drop from the sky straight onto every church in the world I will not be the least bit suprised.

LOL!
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:21/07/2010 11:47 AMCopy HTML

Checking in on the checking out convo

After I left Revival, I took my family to the 'Wham Bam' Giant Baptist Church. After clapping to Jehovah Jirah for 17 years it was really exciting to be in a big church building with hundreds of people, a big band, and all the bells and whistles. This particular Goodlife Church even had a pool, and a squash court. We thought it was amazing... We ended up hanging with a group that wanted to start a house church model like the one TLY was talking about.

We had weekly Friday night meetings and invited neighbours around and it was fun, but after coming out of Revival and realising how fake everything can be, I was a bit jaded. After discovering all those Revival doctrines we believed in so whole-heartedly were just the ramblings of the uneducated, I started to see how easily people can be duped into believing 'crappola'.

But I smiled and nodded for a while, listening to inane conversations about 'generational cursings', 'Demon possession', Creationism, Rapture ready Christians... And all the smiley Christians started to seem more and more fake. This was pentecostalism, and it was just like Revivalism, only with much more money, and far less legalism, and crazy tongue doctrines.

They were good people, just like the people I'd fellowshipped with in Revival for so many years. Good well intentioned people who believed in what they were saying. I couldn't buy into it anymore, and I certainly couldn't bring myself to raising my hands with eyes closed to the celing as I sang to Hill$ongs. I'm not saying that Christianity is a crock of shite, because since this time in Pente-Revival, I've heard actual rational Christian doctrine that doesn't sound completely mental to me, and if Atheism = 0, Agnosticism = 5 and Christianity = 10, then I'm about a 6 in the continuum. I choose to believe there's something more to this universe than the physical measurable data, and I'll keep poking at it with a stick until something pokes back.

As a 'Christian' five years ago, I made choices according to what I believed scripture to say. I stayed in a marriage that I should have gotten out of, but my belief in what 'God wanted' caused me to stick with the marriage until the nasty sticky end. That was a HUGE mistake, and it's taking a lot of course correction to rectify it.

A supernatural god-man saved us from... something? I haven't written the idea off, but If being Christian means I've got to go to convince my partner to go to church once a week and hang with Christians and chat about this fallen world and how to save everyone in it, then I'm a damned man. :P


[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:22/07/2010 12:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust



We had weekly Friday night meetings and invited neighbours around and it was fun, but after coming out of Revival and realising how fake everything can be, I was a bit jaded. After discovering all those Revival doctrines we believed in so whole-heartedly were just the ramblings of the uneducated, I started to see how easily people can be duped into believing 'crappola'.

But I smiled and nodded for a while, listening to inane conversations about 'generational cursings', 'Demon possession', Creationism, Rapture ready Christians... And all the smiley Christians started to seem more and more fake. This was pentecostalism, and it was just like Revivalism, only with much more money, and far less legalism, and crazy tongue doctrines.

 

Yes I had bible study in my house every week for four years. I often questioned the origin of the above Christian “fads”. To me they were some idea that someone had dreamt up, thrown in a book and every silly Christian who read it chose to believe. They were also constantly worried about the witch problem in our town, running around praying on hilltops etc. I could never understand why they were so full of fear when Christ had apparently won the victory and perfect love casts out fear.

They were good people, just like the people I'd fellowshipped with in Revival for so many years. Good well intentioned people who believed in what they were saying.

 

Good well intentioned people do not abandon their friends on the say so of some dickhead pastor.

 

 I couldn't buy into it anymore, and I certainly couldn't bring myself to raising my hands with eyes closed to the celing as I sang to Hill$ongs.

 

Me either. You worship god with your life. All that other stuff is to keet the Christian club happy and convince them you are doing the right thing.

 

 

I'm not saying that Christianity is a crock of shite, because since this time in Pente-Revival, I've heard actual rational Christian doctrine that doesn't sound completely mental to me

 

Yeah but it is about as deep and appealing as a dry sao.

 

, and if Atheism = 0, Agnosticism = 5 and Christianity = 10, then I'm about a 6 in the continuum. I choose to believe there's something more to this universe than the physical measurable data, and I'll keep poking at it with a stick until something pokes back.

 

I’m sitting at about 4 at the moment.

As a 'Christian' five years ago, I made choices according to what I believed scripture to say. I stayed in a marriage that I should have gotten out of, but my belief in what 'God wanted' caused me to stick with the marriage until the nasty sticky end. That was a HUGE mistake, and it's taking a lot of course correction to rectify it.

 

I stayed in church for decades and it drove me toward despair, depression and suicide. I just wanted to do the right thing, and it came very close to destroying me. Now I really have no idea why I did that to myself for all those years.

A supernatural god-man saved us from... something? I haven't written the idea off, but If being Christian means I've got to go to convince my partner to go to church once a week and hang with Christians and chat about this fallen world and how to save everyone in it, then I'm a damned man.

 

Then you are in good company J







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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:23/07/2010 3:54 AMCopy HTML

When I left the Bendigo chapter of the GRC, I decided that I would not consciously attend any other group as I saw the non Pentecostal Churches as wishy washy and bound by even more law (lore) -  Baptist singing and clapping, Anglican and Catholic pretence and ceremony, Lutheran dogm etc. - and saw Pentecostal Churches as wrong (indoctrination lasts a very long time).

I was still, in a sense, brainwashed to an extent that if I was to seek out God, it was either on my own or with the GRC.  Only time healed the damage in my mind and in my heart and I really saw the GRC for what it is and what it does.  It was then that I decided that if I was to believe(or even search out) in God, that I would do it in the way I lived my life and the actions I preformed.

I still believe there is a God, but do not want to go searching in case I end up in a worse place than the GRC - if that is possible.

However, apart from weddings, funerals and baptisms, I have not stepped foot in a church (bricks and mortor) or attended a service.

I know, from reading these postings, the damage that some have had to endure.  I would just like to say that life does get better.  And to not just remember the bad but take hold of the good, nurture the good and hope that this allows us to heal a little bit.  Remembering the good and seeing how the good changed my life has allowed me to heal from the inner scarring that occurred through ten years of platitudes and ten years of self doubt.


Shad

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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:18/08/2010 2:29 AMCopy HTML

Seeing my original post about leaving christianity mysteriously disappeared I thought I would make another one before I disappear from this forum. I finally realise that to hard line christians, dogma will always be more important than people or circumstances. If their god is an equally cold hearted and demanding entity then they are welcome to him. Who would want to spend eternity with people or entities like that. Talking to them is a pointless waste of time.

My interpretation of the bible as a child, with none of the crappy religious pollution was that Jesus was a kind tender hearted indivdual who wanted us to love each other genuinely and deeply, view each other as of equal value and be other centred rather than self centred.

The christian church and the revival centre then spent the next 30 odd years trying to convince me that god is a cold hearted mongrel who does not love me or anyone else on a personal basis, DEMANDS my obedience and expects me to be as cold hearted as the rest of them. The cognitive dissonance between who I have known god to be and who they present god to be just does my head in. I have been driven close to suicide more than once by this crap, and I am NOT going back there again.

As to the guy with no arms and legs from the recommendation on the chatbox, many many people live with disabilites that cannot be seen on the outside. Mental illness, abusive domestic lives, drug abuse and so many other things that make life hard. Christians seem to think they have some magic formula that makes all those things disppear. They seem to think that being a christian automatically causes life to become a level playing field and that if one listens to them and does what they say that life will miraculously morph into some middle class white picket fence fantasy.

Not everyone has the same resources or opportunites. As for me I am tired of hanging around deluded people who would rather pray about it than actually find a solution to the problem. If god is there, he is not a mongrel and I would rather believe he doesnt exist at all than believe that.

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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:18/08/2010 3:27 AMCopy HTML

Galien: The 'guy without the arms and legs' IS getting out there and trying to make a difference to people's lives.

He isn't bitter and he isn't negative. He didn't press for a belief in God, or a 'higher power', he just wanted to inspire people to be/do their very best with what they have.

Galien, my Faith was shaken to the very core when I left the GRC.

I don't BELONG to a particular religion anymore, but I do embrace 'religion', and I do believe in the Trinity.

I do go to 'church' occasionally (any of the mainstream ones will do) and I do 'good works', because I am in a position which enables me to help and make a difference to peoples lives. To help others, enriches me as a person. 

I try to be the best person that I can be. I too have hang-ups (big time) from my upbringing and from my many years in the GRC.

To say that this particular post of yours saddened me is an understatement.

I have followed your posts with interest and I believe, that your time on the Forum has wounded you deeply rather, than allowed you to grow and to gain any knowledge that would empower you.

I am uncomfortable saying things like 'God bless you', probably because in the GRC they were spoken but meant nothing and  some religious institutions and the people who utter the words seem to negate the beauty and comfort and power of them. (and maybe, I feel just a touch guilty uttering them myself because, to me, they are the most powerful, beautiful words that can be uttered)

Galien, I hope that you do find peace and I hope that one day you will be happy just 'being you' and above all Galien, I hope that GOD DOES BLESS YOU.

Glad

"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:10/03/2011 11:52 PMCopy HTML

Because the invisible man in the clouds nobody else can see or here demands it, and insists that those who do not see or hear the invisible man in the cloud must be wrong and therefore should be silenced so that the evil deeds can proceed unimpeded by things like logic, fairness, and humanity.

People would love or need there to be a god as with out this there is only what we have now. And no hope that things will change. People need something more than themselves for they know how small and simple they are.

We need a daddy figure to heal our boo boos and make us smile and reassure us that things will be better. How simple we are as people. Or is it the fear that what we see and hear and know what is going on in the world is just temporary and this is not the best  that it get. 

Why do you think that heaven has streets of gold and mansions and  pearly gates? Because most people over the centuries have been poor and would love to live like royalty.  It's a great sales job for giving over more of the little money that you have to those who live in mansions.  Odd no? 
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:14/03/2011 12:57 AMCopy HTML

I once read where a person said that a person of this religious group was not one of this group when they murdered several people of another religious group. He said that these people do not kill others so at the time he was doing it he was not of this religious group. But just before he murdered and just after he murdered these people he was of this group.

Double speaking to it's max in the name of religion or was it not religious at the time?
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:29/03/2013 6:33 AMCopy HTML

Reply to prezy

Reply to Galian:
My experience at the church I go to is not like what you have experienced, and when things have been difficult for my family we have had plenty of help without judgement. Could be that country people are different? Would nt go to a pente church again though.


Don't be so despaired about some strange policies dishing out by some ultra-conservative church leaders. They do have their merits but I think Geelong's way is perhaps far too inhuman for some. I can't imagine living in another regimental life just after my military conscription. I had my fair share of great time with the younger gen. But sometimes, we do not see things in the same light. Isn't that funny ? I thought the fellowship must be in unity by the so-called Spirit ? smiley8
[FONT family=Arial color=blue size=14px]Has Anyone Spoken To God ?[/FONT]
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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:29/03/2013 7:13 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien

Good well intentioned people do not abandon their friends on the say so of some dickhead pastor.

 

But, you have to understand that those have decided to stay in the Matrix or those that have not been freed from the Matrix will eventually be tools of the devil like that Agent Smith. The world and the church is still separated somehow. I don't understand why God wanted to put us in harm's way.


 

, and if Atheism = 0, Agnosticism = 5 and Christianity = 10, then I'm about a 6 in the continuum. I choose to believe there's something more to this universe than the physical measurable data, and I'll keep poking at it with a stick until something pokes back.

 

I’m sitting at about 4 at the moment.

Have you spoken to God before ? This is important. Even my previous pastor don't even know this ! God is REAL !


If I'm the only Moses around then I will be lonely again. My ex-brethren don't know about this too when I asked them about my blessing for one particular morning. God was telling me that I was expecting someone. I was looking around even when I was at work. By even time, I was at this Funan IT Mall having a fellowship or a gathering. I didn't notice a Taiwanese man who was sitting with us and a brother was telling him something. I thought he was a stranger who was being 'witnessed' by my brethren. Before we leave for somewhere else, my bro told me that he was a newly saved person who had also received the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongue. I was shocked ! He was the one I was expecting and I didn't know he was there all along. Wow ! This was cool. Anyway, the Taiwanese man was actually leaving for Taiwan in the evening.


FYI, I have been fighting Atheism for a year. And I'm still fighting them now.  They are easy to debunked. They have no science cards, no mathematics cards, no ... easy to kill.  I hope that more and more weak atheists will convert to either deism or just agnosticism. I do hope some will see the light like that "ShockofGod" (raised up in a atheist family) who converted into a strong Christian. 



As a 'Christian' five years ago, I made choices according to what I believed scripture to say. I stayed in a marriage that I should have gotten out of, but my belief in what 'God wanted' caused me to stick with the marriage until the nasty sticky end. That was a HUGE mistake, and it's taking a lot of course correction to rectify it.

 

I stayed in church for decades and it drove me toward despair, depression and suicide. I just wanted to do the right thing, and it came very close to destroying me. Now I really have no idea why I did that to myself for all those years.

I didn't like marriage because it ... you can't call a superglue if the bonded parts can be removed by your fancy. And they call this as a "disannulment" ? I thought of just having sex with someone and beget children without the legal stuff and all the silly and meaningless ceremony. But, God said to me, "Marriage." Sheeesh ! 


Then you are in good company J









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Re:Did you abandon Christianity entirely? If so, why?

Date Posted:12/04/2015 8:31 AMCopy HTML

The very start of my path towards Atheism was one day singing in Church singing some lyric about loving Jesus. I asked myself whether I actually loved Jesus. Being honest to myself I said no.

This was the start of losing my God glasses and I actually started reading the Bible more critically; like Yahweh being a genocidal racist arsehole:

Saving Noah because he was perfect in his generations (i.e ancestry); drowning babies etc in the flood (nice moral god there.)
Genociding the seven nations including Hittites, Jebusites and so forth.
Numerous tales in the Exodus to Joshua of wiping out entire peoples (or trying to.) How moral can a god be that say wants you to kill three year olds?
Loving Jacob, having Esau from the womb. What was Esau's crime? Marrying two Hittite women as far as I can tell. Jacob of course humped his first cousins. Still, I suppose you had Abram/Abraham with his half sister Sarai/Sarah (that's half sister people.) Eugenics or selective breeding anyone?

And so on and so forth.

Genesis 1 is also preposterous. I really don't see how anyone, without really thick lenses on their God glasses could reconcile that with reality; be they old or young Earth creationists.

Do remember that Yahweh is some deity who never changes. Therefore genocide then, genocide now and in the future (judgment day anybody? What happens to those that don't believe in him the correct way, oh right they all perish; including infants. What an arsehole.)

Studying Quantum Physics was probably the big killer though. As Einstein stated (it was why he disliked Quantum Physics) that God doesn't play dice, except Quantum Mechanics proves God plays dice. i.e, the omniscient character of Yahweh is impossible.

This did (and still allows) for less fantastic gods admittedly, but as our knowledge increases the God of the gaps just keeps on getting smaller. For example evolution does not need God to explain species, but the origin of life could still be created by a god-like character (we no longer need a god after life has started.) However recent experiments have shown that complex molecules will bind together in liquid anyway, so proto-life requirements for a deity keep getting smaller; the god theists could have gotten away ten years ago is smaller than it is today.

As far as I'm aware of there are really only two gaps that a god can currently be squeezed into: abiogenesis and the big bang. In either case we have explanations that don't require a god. Ergo, we don't need god(s.) Abiogenesis is probably only a measure of time before that God of the gaps is obliterated leaving only the initiator of the big bang. Even there we have quite adequate ideas that don't require a deity.



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