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Biblianut
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Date Posted:25/06/2012 11:48 AMCopy HTML

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After Jesus took up the bread and the wine, blessing and offering to the disciples, would Jesus also have eaten the
bread and drank of the wine together with the disciples at this time?

The NIVSB commentary mentions it was most likely on the third drinking of the cup (‘Passover Seder’) during the
Passover that Jesus performed this action.

Taking into account of what the ‘Lord’s Supper’ represents today, i.e. Christ crucified, I find it highly probable he was
eating and drinking up until then, as he was symbolically demonstrating to the disciples a new and everlasting feast  
forth coming and he wouldn’t be feasting with them again until the kingdom of heaven come. (My take)

Any one?

Ralph.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:25/06/2012 12:26 PMCopy HTML

Ralph,

'Yep'. Jesus was partaking of a Jewish seder with his apostles at Passover; consequently, it was the third cup or ברכת המזון, that would have been the point at which Jesus instituted the Eucharist.

Blessings,

Ian
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Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:26/06/2012 2:02 AMCopy HTML

Thanks Ian,

Even more interesting, the Hebrew words ברכת המזון meaning 'Grace'

Ralph


I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:26/06/2012 3:46 AMCopy HTML

Hello, Ralph.

Even more interesting, the Hebrew words ברכת המזון meaning 'Grace'. Not exactly. The Hebrew properly means, "a blessing on being nourished"; it's a form of grace that's said after meals. (How many times have I told you that 'Google Translate' doesn't work with the biblical languages?)

Blessings,

Ian
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Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:26/06/2012 7:07 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

(How many times have I told you that 'Google Translate' doesn't work with the biblical languages?)

OK. What would you suggest I use?

thank you

Ralph
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:26/06/2012 7:09 AMCopy HTML

Ralph,

I'd suggest if you're interested in using Hebrew and Greek in your studies, then you set yourself the task of actually learning the languages. But if you're unable/unwilling to do this, then stick to English translations instead. There is no such thing as 'responsible dabbling' when it comes to original language exegesis :)

Blessings,

Ian
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Biblianut Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:26/06/2012 9:29 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

Not that I'm unwilling to learn, lack of brain cells don't help. Like baldness; you can't grow hair when there is no more seed left. Lol.

But again, thanks

Ralph

PS When/if you do use the Hebrew or Greek when responding etc, may I ask you give the translation in English. Much appreciated.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:29/06/2012 7:47 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Ralph,

I'd suggest if you're interested in using Hebrew and Greek in your studies, then you set yourself the task of actually learning the languages. But if you're unable/unwilling to do this, then stick to English translations instead. There is no such thing as 'responsible dabbling' when it comes to original language exegesis :)

Blessings,

Ian

.. Now aint that a fact. Considering for example Hebrew Verb conjugating requires sound understanding and recognition of the seven basic verb stems: Qal, Niphal, Hitpael, Piel, Hiphal, Pual, Huphal with each describing particular types of action and then you have weak verbs etc that have corresponding paradigm sets etc. with participles and imperatives etc.  Ralph, I will be serious. Learning languages takes hard work especially at first and you really have an important task to first understand grammar syntax rules etc. and you cannot escaped the need to take the hard yards in order for the language to sink in. So Ralph in your case I would heed Ian's advice very well. See I have found that it TAKES TIME and patience for a language to sink in and it doesn't happen overnight. And importantly you need a good teacher. You don't have to be an Einstein like Ian is ( :-p ) when it comes to having the smarts to be able to learn a language but you do need the time and patience and doggedness to hang in there. Forget about interlinears, softwares etc because unless you understand what you are dealing with, you will do yourself more harm than good. FWIW, Ralph, esword might be a good useful tool for you. Other than that you have excellent websites such as blueletterbible and then there's hebrew4christians and so on ..

blessings Ralph

Eric
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:30/06/2012 9:39 AMCopy HTML

Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that. Yes, doing ok with what I have, i.e. the recommended books and my minister at church.

Problem is when the Greek and Hebrew languages are used on here by the learned "Clergy"  it becomes frustrating trying to make out what is being inferred. It's like a secret society. :)

smiley4(Just joshing)

Again thanks.

Ralph.
I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen; not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C.S.Lewis.
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:01/07/2012 1:44 AMCopy HTML

 Hello Ralph,

For the time being, until you are ready to make your move, remember there are two things to consider in a Biblical Language. And firstly it is wonderful that you realize the importance of the autograph text (well not quite autograph since what we are dealing with is handwritten copied from other copies etc. but nevertheless regulated by Canon authority). But there are two main levels. These are the Lexical level and then there is the syntax levels. And then of course there is the important area of RHETORIC which is the basis of the Pauline and New Testament writings (since most folk in the times of these writings didn't read and write especially when a single sheet of papyrus about the size of an A4 paper would be equivalent to a months basic earnings, and therefore the letters themselves were written with the intent of being read out aloud to a live audience as if Paul himself was there in person addressing the churches ... try telling that to Ian's annoying revivalist "associates"  such as Tony the goose.. ) I have actually set myself the endevour of studying rhetorical form starting with Ben Witherington since the library is two hours drive too far away across Brisbane  to the "northside".... Then I can work on via BW's references etc and so on. To prove my point Ralph, try reading the entire Gospel of John in one sitting !!! And then see what picture you come up with when treating the Gospel of John as a single document !!!

So at a lexical level, "esword" is a good handy tool but at a grammar syntax level it becomes worthless. But on the other hand it would be silly if I referred you to a "BDB - Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon" because you would not 1) be able to read the Hebrew Language and 2) have any knowledge of locating the stem consonants of Hebrew word from a Biblical text written its syntax form..

So Ralph, I hope you understand better the situation that Ian is in when it comes to the languages themselves.

Blessings dude

Eric
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:02/07/2012 4:44 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Eric.

As I've pointed out here occasionally, I'm not a huge fan of people using Bible software to conduct 'word studies'. Meaning largely resides at the syntactical rather than at the lexical level; consequently, people who haven't studied (and preferably mastered) the syntax of a given language in detail ought not to rely on electronic concording aids in an effort to 'plug-the-gaps'.

Being able to parse verbs and decline nouns proves very little. Understanding the grammatical implications of such data is where the exegetical rubber-hits-the-road.

Blessings,

Ian
 
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Re:Did Jesus take part in eating and drinking?

Date Posted:02/07/2012 4:51 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Ralph.

Problem is when the Greek and Hebrew languages are used on here by the learned "Clergy"  it becomes frustrating trying to make out what is being inferred. It's like a secret society. :) Fair enough. But I don't write for only the 'average' person; I also write for people who have different levels of learning, language capacity and experience.

In closing, you should know by now that if an exegetical point hinges on either Hebrew or Greek syntax or grammar, that my practice is to spell out why in excrutiating detail :P

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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