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mf doom
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Date Posted:16/08/2005 8:58 PMCopy HTML

Define Christian. what do you think a christian is, just so i know whether i am one or not...?
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #51
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:02/02/2006 11:31 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]

But there have been times, alone with God, when He has filled me with His love - it is the most incredible experience i have ever had - more intense than anything - i never wanted it to end. 

Have a cigarette afterwards?

Eek.. sometimes holy, sometimes sinful...

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:03/02/2006 9:03 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]



Reply to : The ProphetHi,Seems to be pointlessI agree with you that many, if not most, in these cults are not saved. One testimony said "I did not believe in God, but went forward to be baptized, and came out of the water speaking in tongues. I was saved!" What? That is not salvation. No mention of Jesus atoning death on the cross, no mention of realizing their sin and turning from it. The saddest part was her daughter was dying, then right before she died, she spoke in tongues - so they think they will be in heaven together.Tongues is not salvation! It is all about Jesus - alone! Only Jesus! Jesus living in us when we accept He died the death we deserve for our sins......I think most





Hi "Love"

It is hard using the Law.
And it is not meant to be judgemental.
However if souls are not saved they go to Hell like ,or believe it or not.
Sin is exceedingly sinful said Paul after he knew the Law.
It is hard telling people that they are NOT Saved according to the Scriptures....But I didn.t write the Scriptures, they are for SALVATION teaching and guidance.
Love is caring enough to offend and being ridiculed by non beleivers.
All the apostles were murdered for their Faith whats new

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:03/02/2006 9:30 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : The Prophet

Hi "Love"It is hard using the Law

Yes, i am sick of the world evangelical movement where we are not to question people's beliefs - but that we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times and the one world religion.

Way of the Master is great at using the Law as the beginning of the Gospel.  We must believe we are lost, before we look for a Savior.  We can't just tell people - you need to pray to be saved, because most people in the world think they are just doing fine, thank you.  So sad.  So much deception.  But of course, God told us this is the way it would be...as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end times....(Noah and his family were the only ones God saved).  But our command is still to preach the Gospel!  Lord, let us remain faithful to the end!

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:03/02/2006 6:06 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous


Reply to : The ProphetHi "Love"It is hard using the LawYes, i am sick of the world evangelical movement where we are not to question people's beliefs - but that we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times and the one world religion.

Actually, that sounds kinda nice to me... focusing on what we agree about. Ya know what happened to the little boy who got everything he ever wanted? He lived happily ever after (Just some random Wonka quote that came to me... When I concentrate really hard... Wonka talks to me).

we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times

Sign of the end times? Forgetting our differences and focussing on the commanalities of mankind? God forbid! We coudn't have that... there'd be fewer wars and stuff... that just wouldn't do. It would be interesting to see the set of scriptures that say the end times will be preceded by mankind focusing on what we agree about. I'm sorry for poking my head in the christian room again, but you guys say the funniest stuff... however this particular room's topic asks to define what a christian is so it's sort of a loophole.


Jesus - If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other Also. Luke 6.29

Buddha - If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words. Majjhima Nikaya 21.6

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:04/02/2006 12:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



Reply to : The ProphetHi "Love"It is hard using the LawYes, i am sick of the world evangelical movement where we are not to question people's beliefs - but that we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times and the one world religion.Way of the Master is great at using the Law as the beginning of the Gospel. We must believe we are lost, before we look for a Savior. We can't just tell people - you need to pray to be saved, because most people in the world think they are just doing fine, thank you. So sad. So much deception. But of course, God told us this is the way it would be...as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end times....(Noah and his familywerethe only ones God saved).




Hi Free,

I too am amazed at the evangelical churches preaching God has a wonderful plan for your life. Health Wealth Happiness and Prosperity then you die unsaved.

I was in the hospital today talking to a multiple stab wound victim a young woman I have known since she was a child. A near death experience saw her fear God and really repent of her ways.A brpken spirit and a contrite heart is what God wants to see. This led to her cousin wanting to know more about the things of God. Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom.

The Law to the proud the Gospel to the Humble
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:06/02/2006 5:04 AMCopy HTML

hey love. hope i didn't come across as ridiculing you, as has been suggested. i guess i do ridicule the whole world in some way or the other, but i still love it.

i actually appreciate your method and its fresh floweriness. if you were going the 'kill me with kindness' route, that wouldn't work anyway, as my mum used to try that and how could i hate my mum? it's gotta be love.

in fact i witness my mum mature into your style from the style of others on this board. your way is best for softening the heart. the other style, i dunno, i guess it leads to aggression.

but in a way, i kinda respect that the christian massive could kinda do with a millitant wing. it wouldn't be the only contradictory behaviour and i guess every religion has one these days.

actually the kkk are a christian-based para-military organisation. but i wont even go there. i probably wouldn't have the time to discuss anything with the most intelligent member they have.

anyway, basically, no matter what others say here, i meant no ridicule towards you at all. i appreciated the discussion. i got to say a lot of stuff i wanted to and i guess there's not much more to say, other than to defend any accusations and prevent any hurt feelings towards people that have been hospitable in this neck of the woods. hey, you've all been good.

anyway, if any christians out there read this post in future and see pass the stupid bits to find something interesting that made them think or even stood out as a genuine cry for help (! you never know !), holler.

enjoy your walk, might see you at the crossroads... unless i get stimulated by one of the next few replies...
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:07/02/2006 5:36 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Love]%*'`@Reply to : avenger dude

hey love. hope i didn't come across as ridiculing you, as has been suggested. i guess i do ridicule the whole world in some way or the other, but i still love it.i actually appreciate your method and its fresh floweriness. if you were going the 'kill me with kindness' route, that wouldn't work anyway, as my mum used to try that and how could i hate my mum? it's gotta be love.in fact i witness my mum mature into your style from the style of others on this board. your way is best for softening the heart. the other style, i dunno, i guess it leads to aggression.but in a way, i kinda respect that the christian massive could kinda do with a millitant wing. it wouldn't be the only contradictory behaviour and i guess every religion has one these days.actually the kkk are a christian-based para-military organisation. but i wont even go there. i probably

hey avenger dude!

I am so glad for the interaction with you!  Thank you for all you have shared. 

I just don't understand how people can reject the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE.  Satan is a great deceiver and fills men's minds with grandiose thoughts of himself and rebellion against God.  But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life into.  Lord, please fill the people reading this with Your Truth - convict them of any error in their lives - show them The Way!  May many turn to You!  We can't fight against God and win.  He made us.  We can choose to accept His way, or reject it.  If we accept Jesus as Savior - we are saved and get into heaven.  If we are prideful and reject it - we get what we choose - no contact with God for eternity.  How sad.  May many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it!  Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe!  He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child!  So cool!

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:07/02/2006 6:46 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Holyandsinful]%*'`@Reply to : Love [Anonymous]


But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life into

May many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it!  Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe!  He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child!  So cool!


You keep saying that we are all nothing but dirt. You seem to really have it in for the human race. God considers us so much more that that... our bodies came from dust and to dust they will return. Look past the flesh and see the heart eh?

Many people on this board accepted Jesus as their saviour and are therefore 'saved'. Some during their walk have chosen not to congregate with various clumps of humans in their Sunday morning meeting places.

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:08/02/2006 6:10 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Love]%*'`@Reply to : Holyandsinful [Anonymous]

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life intoMay many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it! Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe! He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child! So cool!You keep saying that we are all nothing but dirt. You seem to really have it in for the human race. God considers us so much more that that... our bodies came from dust and to dust they will return. Look past the flesh and see the heart eh?Many people on this board accepted Jesus as their saviour andare therefore 'saved'. Someduring their walk have chosen not to

Hi H&S!

I say that because of the people who claim to know better than God, to question Him, to think they have a better way.  God tells Job - where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?  The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom - so those who do not fear God really have no wisdom at all.

God elevates the humble and cuts down the proud.

When we are compared to God - we are nothing.  He made us.  He gives us every breath, every heartbeat.  He is in control.  He makes the rules.

Those who say it's not fair - that's like saying "Gravity is not fair.  I want to fly like the birds.  I don't want to be tied down to gravity." If they jump off a skyscraper - they will die because of the force of gravity.  They can't change it. 

That is exactly the same as those who say "Hell isn't fair.  I don't want to be forced to make a decision.  I want to do what i want to do.  I don't want to be tied down to God's rules."  When you jump off the edge of this life into the next - the force of God's law of Salvation will determine where you spend eternity.  It is a law that can not change.  You either accept it or reject it.    The one who rejects gravity and tries to live life his way (flying) dies.  The one who rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior (God's only way of salvation) dies eternally apart from God.

Realizing we were originally made from dirt keeps us humble, realizing we are nothing without God.  You can accept or reject it. 

Lord, may You soften H&S's heart to stop fighting You, and to let You love him.  Let him know You and Your love.  Let Him reach out to You and accept You!   In Jesus' name.  Amen.

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:08/02/2006 9:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]

That is exactly the same as those who say "Hell isn't fair. 

Well... hell ISN'T fair... that's the thing! (if you believe it to be a place of eternal torture)... Even in our flawed justice system there are levels of punishment to fit the crime and an attempt is made for those convicted to learn from their mistakes. And our souls weren't made from dust, our souls and heart weren't made from dust (and I'm not talking about the organ that pumps blood throughout the body).


How Christians Can Become Atheists by Charles Slagle. Traditional and fundamentalist teachings about hell lead to misery, despair, hatred of God, loss of faith, and finally atheism.

Some common teachings about God:

  1. God helps only those who help themselves. That is, Infinite Holy Love helps only those who make sufficiently good, wise, and timely "choices" before He is forced to abandon them to pain and evil "forever and ever."
  2. God is Holy Unfailing Love Personified, but He has also planned in advance to abandon most (or many billions) of His human offspring to fiery agony "forever and ever."
  3. God expects you to love your enemies and your neighbors as you love yourself---at least for now---until the time comes for the saints to judge the world. Meanwhile, Unfailing Holy Love has already reserved the right for Himself to abandon to "hell forever" multiplied millions of his own little neighbors who are daily dying and departing this veil of tears. A veil of tears into which they never "chose" to be born...
  4. God is Holy Love and loves the "world". However, He has already planned in advance to consign to endless fiery torture those whom he has chosen not to save, for He intends to save only the elect.

These teachings entering into your sub-conscious mind can meditate on "everlasting rage, despair and vindictiveness" for years. And thus you'll gradually turn into a smiling, double-talking, double-minded, Bible toting, Scripture quoting, religious robot. That robot may last for decades before it either suddenly "explodes" into atheism, or "implodes" into religious insanity.

And I'm not fighting God either. I remember fighting God many times during my 33 years of churchgoing, but not now... so yeah, your prayer is answered. So cool!

Good read here too! - Hell, Satan's biggest lie

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:09/02/2006 1:58 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]

oh, i might as well join in for a bit...




think they have a better way.





good point. in fact, its why i don't try to hard to deconvert people - i don't have a better way for them. i have a different way and i can encourage people to have a different way. the only problem is the fear to try something different. how can i compare with something scaring people into thinking 'this is the only way'? i haven't the power of a dictator, or i would impose 'think for yourself'. but people need leadership in another way, especially in a scary world. a world of sickness and war. you need to be able to folow through. offer security and sanctuary. have a whole plan laid out. make people feel safe and like they are on the right track. a platform. a doctrine.
i can't give my mum the hope and support the church gives her. i can only lead her into a world of too many options. a world where you realise you are on your own. i have a better way for me.




The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom





this tells me to fear god. this tells me, if i want wisdom, i can get it by following this path.
its another trade-off... you want this? then do this. kinda selfish in a way. why do we want wisdom? because knowledge is power or because we have to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil forever. or because we want to know. are we greedy? wisdom is apparently knowledge with understanding. is it just the human condition of wanting to know the meaning of life (or more like death), the search for a truth that might not even be there. it may just be the curse of language, turning everything into discourse (accelerated by the church originally with requirements for confessions of sexual desires).




so those who do not fear God really have no wisdom at all.





if the first statement is true, then this might be a logical follow-up. but first, it must be true that the fear of god is the beginning of wisdom. this is something you read in a book. ok, supposedly the word of god. nice. but that's my point. why should i believe it's the word of god? again, it is telling me to fear god. perhaps there is a reason that someone wants me to fear this invisible phenomenon called god? perhaps the church leaders, perhaps the state leaders? why do they want people to be fearful. ok, fear meaning respect then. maybe someone in a leadership position is instilling the value of having respect. being humble, obeying, being fearful/respectful. 'yes, that will keep most of the masses from rebelling against my ways and deter them from threatening my power'.



God elevates the humble and cuts down the proud.





ok, this tells me to be humble, or keep being humble. it says 'don't be proud otherwise god with cut you down'. the creator of heaven and earth will cut you down if you are proud. ok then, i'll bow down. why? don't ask why... be humble or else. motivation by fear. how do you still subscribe to it?




When we are compared to God - we are nothing. He made us. He gives us every breath, every heartbeat. He is in control. He makes the rules.





ok, people who have the word god in their vocabulary knows that compared to god, we are nothing. actually, this would imply that god is everything, but if you look around you, then there are lots of things in the world. if god is everything, he is this keyboard AND you and me too. anyway, what is the point of reminding ourselves of something we don't need to be reminded about, especially if we are constantly saying we are nothing, we are nothing. i think the rulers of the past were god, when it comes to scriptures etc. it's a way of maintaining the power and the gap between the rulers and the people. the rebels of today are the rulers of tomorrow. so how do you combat it? do everything you can to prevent rebellion and revolution. keep the people humble and meek, obedient and submissive and don't let them get any crazy ideas, let alone sight of what's really going on.
spiritual battles in high places could be gearge w bush and the tamil tigers. high places because us civillians are nowhere near that realm. it could be pharmecutical companies and loony bins. it could be television networks and drug lords. it could be religious leaders and weapons suppliers.





Those who say it's not fair - that's like saying "Gravity is not fair. I want to fly like the birds. I don't want to be tied down to gravity." If they jump off a skyscraper - they will die because of the force of gravity. They can't change it.





first of all, there is an implication here that the judeo-islamic-christian god is a given, like gravity (also, not really a given, but for the sake of the argument...). once you believe that axiom, ok, then all the stuff around it, the scriptures, the dogma, the doctrine the fear tactics, the worldview, the way of life etc. can start doing its work on you. and yes, you can use it to persuade anyone willing to accept the god complex etc. but here, you are saying that your belief is as universal as gravity. this is the point where people are going wrong, but can never see it because they are intrenched in the latter stages of belief. the stories used to push it or clarify it are lovely etc, but don't work if you can't get people to bite the original bait... or if they are already in the state of mind of 'not questioning'... or not being aware of logical fallacies.











if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:09/02/2006 10:11 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[atsea]%*'`@Hi , Avenger Dude, H&S, love
I'm sitting here listening to the conversation.
I get the " He keeps the universe in motion, orchestrating so many wonderful things for us daily - sunrises and sunsets, beautiful oceans and beaches to enjoy, lakes and streams, animals to enjoy as pets, flowers, trees, children to love and be loved - wonderful variety of delicious food to eat - eyes to see everything, ears to hear - beautiful music - arms to hug - hearts to love.....so much more....thank You Lord!" from Love.
I feel that way about God, and always have.
But I don't get the fiery furnace in agony for ever thing, H&S.
And the fact we get natural desires and human emotions attached to our bodies, and have to spend the time ignoring them or we get tortured for eternity?
Love me then I'll love you, and you gt the good stuff.
Don't love me and I'll make you sorry?
Is it some cosmic game made up by God to see who would be stupid enough to fool for it?
Trouble is we are'nt going to know till we die, maybe
I'd rather be on the safe side and do the accepting Jesus etc, but would that be acceptable to him if i"m only doing it to escape eternal torture.
Put the kettle on, Dude, and tell me what you think.
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:09/02/2006 5:22 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : atsea [Anonymous]

Hi atsea. I don't think I've seen you on the board before? What's your history with the Revivals? What does atsea mean? are you a sailor?

I get the " He keeps the universe in motion, orchestrating so many wonderful things for us daily - sunrises and sunsets, beautiful oceans and beaches to enjoy, lakes and streams, animals to enjoy as pets, flowers, trees, children to love and be loved - wonderful variety of delicious food to eat - eyes to see everything, ears to hear - beautiful music - arms to hug - hearts to love.....so much more....thank You Lord!" from Love. I feel that way about God, and always have.

Yep, although I sympathise with agnostics and atheists and others with their evolutionary theories, I for one do believe that all the matter in the universe(s?) spiralling out into the infinite void was set into motion, from nothing, billions of years ago by an intelligent force that has recently been personalised as one or three (but who's counting?) gods. Many things were created that are breathtakingly beautiful... some of which are enhanced even more with plastic surgery LOL, other things are downright ugly and ridiculously evil, ie. toads, stonefish and Darly Sommers.

But I don't get the fiery furnace in agony for ever thing, H&S. And the fact we get natural desires and human emotions attached to our bodies, and have to spend the time ignoring them or we get tortured for eternity? Love me then I'll love you, and you gt the good stuff. Don't love me and I'll make you sorry?

Scriptually, the bible says he rains crap and gold on the 'just and the unjust' so if you do love him, or don't love him, or don't really care... you don't really get any special treatment. Didn't he say he was no respecter of persons? I've got a mate who was (and still is) a devoted christian who travels to remote areas diligently spreading his gospel, who came back from a mission trip and had a car accident and watched his wife and two children burn in front of him... honestly... that would suck beyond anything I can comprehend. Such, unfortunalely, is life on this random bloody planet.

Some of those links in my previous post have some very interesting takes on scripture which suggest that the fire and hell is not what the mainstream christian delights in thinking. There are many contradictions in the bible and the leather clad sheets of papyrus we pour over is not without it's share of imperfections (we can start up another thread if anyone wants to discuss those). However, I do think the 66 books have a core of inspiration and stands alone as a quality piece of ancient literature. I've recently been reading about the wisdom that is also mentioned in other religious texts... there's some nice stuff and good life advice, but we need to use our own god given common sense to discard the crappy ideas that we're so quick to lock in.

Is it some cosmic game made up by God to see who would be stupid enough to fool for it? Trouble is we are'nt going to know till we die, maybe. I'd rather be on the safe side and do the accepting Jesus etc, but would that be acceptable to him if i"m only doing it to escape eternal torture.

If the Jesus and co. god is so insecure about hs relationship with us that he would shoot us down for 1. breaking up with him because we don't want to huddle together on Sunday mornings, or 2. not getting to know him properly; then he is the sort of partner who shouldn't be running a universe. Damned if we do, damned if we don't with that sort of an unreasonable entity. I believe that something went down 2000 years ago and that it was done to do away with the laws that we couldn't deal with, and that it was done for ALL! Whatever it was, it was a good thing for us. The writers and interpreters of the bible since then have had their own agendas and, as is the case throughout human history, desire to hold control over others. The whole "we're saved and you're not" mentality that breeds arrogance and pride is not from the god I believe in.

No one's come back and told as what it's like after death... maybe Jesus, but he didn't really give much away about it did he? It always makes me chuckle when people think of the afterlife as it's alluded to in Revelations (an extremely symbolic book), as if there's streets of gold - like such a mineral would be so special to spiritual bodies that still need legs to walk down them in order to get to the mansions that have rooms and ensuites.... lol...

Look after yourselves... and each other.

Define 'chistian', am I one or not? C'mon let's grow up and lose the labels eh? At least I will...


[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

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$%*'`[Love]%*'`@

Reply to : All



Hi Everyone!

I am proud to be called a Christian!  A follower of Christ.  There is nothing, nothing in this world that is more important than my relationship with Christ!

Salvation is not being in church, doing this, or doing that.  Salvation is a relationship with the God who created and runs the universe!  How awesome is that!   The God who alone gives peace.  Since i  have become a Christian, i have PEACE, PEACE, glorious PEACE!  And as i have shared before, LOVE!  and JOY!  Aren't those some reasons to reach out to God?  It is a great idea to reach out to God to escape hell.  Hell is real.  There are testimonies of people who have said they were heading there - it was horrible - they saw the faces of the people in torment - and they were all saying - don't come here - just as in the Bible the rich man (from the history of Lazarus) wants to save his relatives from heading to the same place that he went (torment). 

We get what we choose.  Rejection of God in this world results in no relationship with God in the next.  It is your choice.  God is not sending you anywhere.  EVERYONE in the world has the same choice.  Reach out to God - or not.  Reaching out to God results in spending eternity with Him.  God has given us free choice (otherwise we would be robots and incapable of love).  He is totally fair.  For those who reject Him and want nothing to do with Him, who reject all the evidence for Him - He lets them have their way - without Him for eternity.  God is love - so without God there will be no love.  God is peace - so without God there will be no peace. 

Your arguments about saying it is not fair, are like women saying "It's no fair we were born women."  Or Africans saying "It's no fair we were born African".  It is just how it is.  We have to accept how we were born.  We were all born SINNERS.  That is just the way it is.  God can not be in the presence of sin.  But God is loving, so He made ONE way for us to be free of the sin, to be rescued from our sinful future.  God's rules (that we can't change) say "The soul that sins must die". 

Jesus did not sin.  Because He is God (eternal) His perfect life and sacrificial death were able to pay the penalty we all deserve.  But, just as any gift - you can accept it or reject it.  Say, someone you don't like wants to give you a gift - you can throw it back in their face - reject it.  If you reject it, you don't receive it.  EVERYONE has a choice to accept or reject Jesus' death for them.  When you say Jesus' death is not the way, or it's not fair....you are rejecting God's gift.  You will not receive it when you stand before Him.  You can make up all kinds of excuses, but when you stand before God after your death, the only thing that will matter is if you accepted that Jesus died in your place, for you.  Lord, please, may hearts be broken, may hearts reach out to You and accept Your gift of Your Son, dying in our place.  Thank You Jesus!

Jesus died for EVERYONE, but only those who receive His gift, thanking Him, trusting Him for their salvation are saved.  Salvation is a relationship with Jesus.  When you really trust Him, He comes to live inside you through His Holy Spirit.  He changes you!  It is so incredible.  Lord, may many be changed today. 

To make our lives better, we can't change ourselves.  RELIGION is always man reaching up to God - trying to save themselves.  We can't.

Christianity is God reaching down to us, God saving us.  We must make a choice.  Accept His wonderful salvation or reject it.  We can not be neutral.  Neutral is rejection of His gift.  We have to accept it to receive it.  Lord, may many accept Your wonderful gift, even now.  Talk to God.  Tell Him you know you can't get to heaven on your own.  Tell Him you're sorry for the bad things you have done.  Tell Him thank you for sending Jesus to die for your sins.  Tell Him you accept His gift of salvation!  Tell Him you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior!  Praise the Lord!  If you really meant it from your heart you have ETERNAL life.  You are saved FOREVER.  You can never lose TRUE salvation!   May many be saved Lord!

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:10/02/2006 9:17 AMCopy HTML




It is a great idea to reach out to God to escape hell. Hell is real. There are testimonies of people who have said they were heading there - it was horrible - they saw the faces of the people in torment - and they were all saying - don't come here - just as in the Bible the rich man (from the history of Lazarus) wants to save his relatives from heading to the same place that he went (torment).


If you believe that then you are truly off with the fairies, in my opinion, and way past reasoning with.You're certainly ignoring anything that doesn't filter through your glazed over glasses. You're getting repetitive and overly preachy also. We'ver read your salvation edict before and if we want to read it again we will go back to one of your posts - "even now... so cool". Maybe you can go to a forum somewhere else where there is a demand for your's and Prophet's 'Turn or Burn' sermons. All on this forum have heard it before, and heard it from hardcore cult leaders too... been there done that. "even now"

If you feel I'm mocking you, then count it as joy when in persecution, for great is your reward in heaven while the ignorant and others writhe in eternal torment in the room beneath you. Just keep the noise down up there hey while dancing on the golden streets, it only adds to the torment when they hear you laughing and jeering... "even now"

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:10/02/2006 10:51 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Love [Anonymous]



Christianity is God reaching down to us, God saving us. We must make a choice. Accept His wonderful salvation or reject it. We can not be neutral. Neutral is rejection of His gift. We have to accept it to receive it. Lord, may many accept Your wonderful gift, even now. Talk to God. Tell Him you know you can't get to heaven on your own. Tell Him you're sorry for the bad things you have done. Tell Him thank you for sending Jesus to die for your sins. Tell Him you accept His gift of salvation! Tell Him you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior! Praise the Lord! If you really meant it from your heart you have ETERNAL life. You are saved FOREVER. You can never lose TRUE salvation! May many be saved Lord!





well, it might sound a bit mean, but i can see h&s's point about your style. i think you are very sweet, but it seems to reflect this dialogue that we (at 'christian' stage) build up in our heads. which is a lovely thing, and, (as we see when we look at the bums on seats), is needed by many.

its these chains of thoughts that keep us encouraged, comforted, offer us (an almost convincing) explanation of life and all its little associated problems. it is interpretation of scripture, which also fulfilled the same purpose at a previous stage in history. it is fed to us from the pulpit, ingrained into us by our own everyday thoughts, through choruses and hymns, through discussions and bible-study groups. and perhaps there is as much truth in it as in other belief systems.

i like the idea of 'accept it or don't', 'take it or leave it', etc... although it's still salesmanship, (as is the 'its such a wonderful experience' spiel) but then when one gets worked up 'in the spirit', excited by our train of thoughts and spontaneous revelations/spirit giving us utterance, we can go too far... and sometimes contradict what we are saying. for instance, when you swith over to the tone of 'we cannot be neutral'. this is where we stray from what is okay to use to encourage the people in our belief system and what can be used as an explanation to be taken seriously by a relative 'outsider'.

passing on this 'commandment' style will make some people a little angry i guess, although it is out of kindness: you KNOW what is right, therefore, WHY not TELL others. maybe you understand the things of god better, so it is better to COMMAND people who understand less in a 'don't worry, just trust me' type situation.

there is something lovely in the way you (love) suddenly switch into prayer, from talking to us on this forum, to suddenly telling god in front of us to look after us and everyone else, but it might be a little like speaking in tongues at once when a stranger comes into the meeting. people will start to wonder whether you are off with the faries. once again, i sympathize, because my mum does the same thing... its kinda funny in a way, and very sweet!

and i must say, that i get carried away in my own spirit sometimes and i am as scattered as you, but really, when it comes to addressing your posts, its a little bit all over the place sometimes. its not a bad thing, but it shows people that sometimes preaching the gospel and defending it, has obvious limits. one can't go further than a certain stage perhaps, without it turning into repetition, a matter of faith, getting caught up in the beauty of creation or the ugly face of death, and, finally, an open prayer session.

but, as i say, i like it too. it does show, on a certain level, either a lack of arrogance or an admittence of not knowing anything... in the end, handing it over to the creator. i did that my whole life, and we were encouraged too. but then i lost my fear and/or laziness to investigate to the best of my abilities without getting distracted or put off by the fact that i will never know it all. at least i would be on the road towards finding a certain truth through practice and experience in the context of my own unique environmental circumstances.

but keep going on. i can see you are fighting for the light (in my opinion) and i guess, so am i, although sometimes i feel like i am doing work for the deciever inadvertantly. i am worried sometimes that the pursuit of information is linked somehow to arrogance, ignorance and rebellion. sometimes that it is all in vain. and that 'doing it my way' is foolish, impossible and romantic.

it could very well be partly blamed on the revival centres that i have applied the deceptiveness of man, not just to the particular organisation, but also to christianity in general, but i also have another reason or two. one is to do with my cultural background, which is a long history of buddhism and before that, most likely hinduism. christianity has always been IMPOSED upon my ancestors and me, something that i would not have taken notice of, if i was deeply wrapped up in the whole 'spiritual buzz' which comes as a modern-day bonus with these belief systems.

as you can see, the whole thing is very complex to me, which means it could be easier OR harder for me to throw it all away and submit to a (relatively) new, common, established, belief system. but even this is complicated, if i give myself the privellige to think about things more deeply. applying regimes of truth to my own life as i see it. giving myself a bit of credit, and not just thinking i'm a dirty, evil, sinning, monstrosity, not capable of getting wisdom in any other way.

in reference to ATSEA, i often wonder (out loud in this forum) about god's evil sense of humour. but if there was a god, i wouldn't dare believe this. i would present the possiblity as another example of how mankind, in his or her attempts to present and define god, fails. some of the things they say like 'not the author of confusion' etc, sit well with me, but when you look deeper and question why he did this if he knew this, etc, you realise that of course, god could not be so basic.

so here, you can see that i, also will tend towards personal safety in reality (which may be my real thoughts and beliefs which i may rarely bring close to discourse). a divine presence, i believe cannot be summed up in one book, or defined, or even pointed-to, without many contradictions manifesting, hence my discomfort with 'black and white' christian 'thinkers'.

well, that was a bit of the top of the head, but one day, i will have put the kettle on and been more astute. for now, its a brief reply to your post, with an opening for a continued dialogue.
btw, your paragraphing style is reminicent of the prophet's. any relation?
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:11/02/2006 10:40 AMCopy HTML




btw, your paragraphing style is reminicent of the prophet's. any relation?



i was so going to say that , there are a lot of posts with weird commas and similar paragraphs , is it an epidemic ?,   ,

but the, apostropheees seemd so much better than usual , so i didn,t accuse this time

i don,t even know how to start a new line without a space automatically popping           

Thanks avenger for softening my moody posts... sorry love , I"m not a tame lion ,     .

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:11/02/2006 11:44 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : HolyandSinful



It is a great idea to reach out to God to escape hell. Hell is real. There are testimonies of people who have said they were heading there - it was horrible - they saw the faces of the people in torment - and they were all saying - don't come here - just as in the Bible the rich man (from the history of Lazarus) wants to save his relatives from heading to the same place that he went (torment).If you believe that then you are truly off with the fairies, in my opinion, and way past reasoning with.You're certainly ignoring anythingthat doesn't filter through your glazed overglasses.You're getting repetitive and overly preachy also. We'ver read your salvation edict before and if we want to read it again we will go back to one of your



This is the Christian room.For believers of the faith not unbelievers
Those that object maybe should not frequent this room.
I notice that there are only three or four main posters here and that they seem to want control this web site and if you dont agree with them they tell you to stop posting mmmmmmmmmmm

Hi Love; maybe they mistake "being off with the fairies" for being in the Spirit world.They do not see the things of the Spirit at all, willfully blind.
Making God in your own image or reaching up to God to bring Him down is I believe Idolitary, gets most people.

Keep on keeping on


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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:11/02/2006 12:30 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : The Prophet


This is the Christian room.For believers of the faith not unbelievers

Yep but the particular topic in this room is "Define Christian.   what do you think a christian is, just so i know whether i am one or not...? so if you don't want anyone replying to it who is actually UNSURE of their lable, then start up a new thread called "prayers and preaching" or "What's your favourite fruit of the spirit" or "This is my special gift, what's yours"... or "how to talk condescendingly to non-christians". Start up a new thread where we are not discussing what qualifies as a christian and those of us who object will leave you well alone.

Those that object maybe should not frequent this room.

Yep fair enough.. start up another thread and the chattier ones like myself will infrequent those ones,

 
I notice that there are only three or four main posters here and that they seem to want control this web site and if you dont agree with them they tell you to stop posting mmmmmmmmmmm

Control freaks.... residual habits. If you can't join 'em, beat 'em, I always say hahahaha. As I said and have suggested, if it gets too hot in the kitchen get out. This thread is titled what it is and that's what we started discussing. I truly suggest that you stop posting under it and if the participants upset you. Again, we're defining what is a christian in THIS thread (it's continously going way off topic but nevertheless, it is the topic. "Am I a christian..?"and I'd like to add that there are many shades of it.

Hi Love; maybe they mistake "being off with the fairies" for being in the Spirit world.They do not see the things of the Spirit at all, willfully blind. Making God in your own image or reaching up to God to bring Him down is I believe Idolitary, gets most people. keep on keeping on

You think you know some of us so well but only get this persona. It's unfair of you to makes such judgements about how strangers believe in spiritual things. I spent most of the last 3 years very deeply in a Baptist church that was very off with the fairies, but for a lot of the time I thought I was very in tune. Just because I've explored and interpreted the scriptures on hell to be misaligned with your view of it and consider them to be analogous of spiritual things doesn't make me an idolitorer. I think it makes me the opposite. Feel free to discuss or... again start up a thread that is for the "soundly saved, eternal hell fire believing, salvation by grace Christians".


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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:11/02/2006 7:36 PMCopy HTML

prophet dude, seems like you got a major bee in your bonnet.

by the way, can you tell us about your prophetic properties? ie. what news or predictions do you have that other prophets like jesus, mohammed or jeremiah haven't said before?

i love the idea of modern day prophets... i believe it, but have you got anything that's not completely recycled? maybe everything we say is recycled, but i mean, are you a blatent false prophet?

its a shame that we have offended you. i was more aiming towards bringing everyone together, even if it did involve a bit of listening to others, but seems like you want to maintain this 'us and them' thing.

how do you feel about jesus hanging out with crims and pro's? and turning over the tables and criticising how the 'official' churches were run.

can't you see that WE are the christians and you aren't?

how can i be more subtle than i have been so far?

this is my point = Y'ALL HAVE GOT IT WRONG and you are MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES that they have bee doing forever.

jesus is the opposite to you.

he is a rebel (with a cause). he is against religion. he is for the everyday people.

if you're struggling with your belief and get so easily pissed off, maybe you need to start again.

get baptised and chill out.

there is a difference between rebellion/revolution and just having a bad attitude. and one of them involves using your brain.

if you want war, we can go to war, but we can also do things another way.

so take love's advice and either join in or don't. but don't join in and tell others not to. don't accuse others of trying to control the board when its just psychological projection.

it is obvious, by saying those things that you are trying to control the board. did we step on your territory? were you aiming to be king of the christian room?

good luck, but it looks like your going to have trouble recapturing this thread.

as i have said before. i am sympathetic to the christian faith and i'm probably more christian than many, in ways that are not often boasted about. i'm trying to say, what makes you different from the RCI churches?

isn't it just the same, a few degress lower?

the rituals, the superstitiousness, the more preach than practice, the safety in numbers, the vague interpretations, the logical fallacies, the ignorance, the idolotary of a man, the adamant faith in myths, the legalism, the self-righteousness, following the letter, taking things literally and never quite getting the point, the refusal to evolve, the refusal to believe in modern day prophets, the totality, universiality, the black and white.
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:12/02/2006 1:47 AMCopy HTML

hey thanks for letting me let off a bit of steam. im sure i offended some christians.

but i have to say that it could be dangerous to the message of jesus (in fact, could be the major reason many don't take it seriously), if you imply that by being a christian, one must subscribe to notions that jesus was part-god or immaculately concieved. (just two simple examples of things people take for granted).

im saying that many embellishments are not necessarily so. but may have needed to be used at one stage for a reason (i can concede). like the literal adam and eve depiction.
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:12/02/2006 7:47 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[biggirl]%*'`@Reply to : HolyandSinful



btw, your paragraphing style is reminicent of the prophet's. any relation?iwas so going to say that , there are a lot of posts with weird commas and similar paragraphs





lol, thats so funny.
I'm sorry, I had a momentary lapse of reason, and didn't want to be me posting the other day! Now you've made me paranoid about my commas. I like them actually, and anyway, they're not that' wei'rd.
Seriously, I love to talk about all this stuff. I was in RF for 20 years, and left 4 or so years ago.
So i'm reassessing and re-examining everything.
Actually found a good church in last few days, the kids love it.
So will chuck everything out of my mind that I learnt at RF, and come at Christianity from a different perspective.
I really love the music. I see, I do lots of new paragraphs)
I like the teachings of Jesus, how we should live.
But, from the moment I first believed (suddenly, when I was 20), the concept of hell was awful, and I still think so.
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:12/02/2006 7:52 PMCopy HTML

yeah, i know. the whole hellfire and brimstone is a bit annoying and i guess i realise it was needed at some stage to motivate people.

it's was such a relief to not have to worry about hell and all the other 'necessities' enforced at the revival centres.

it was almost hard work being a christian, worrying about doing th wrong thing, and new rules were popping up everywhere. there was so much to be aware of.

the bible is full of thousands of statutes etc. and jesus came along and said to just love one another and god.

the revivalists made people feel safer and like they were doing the right thing by being more strict. this was intentional and admitted to me by a house leader named alan grae, using an anology with sheep and 'the higher the fence'.

it is great to feel free to look at things from a different perspective, and it made me feel free to even not feel the need to depend on scriptures. maybe it would be beneficial in some way at some time, but i get the general jist. i used to enjoy discussing it, but felt that it was no longer necessary in my life.

i will always have that initial framework of the bible as a subconscious guidance system, or just for something to compare other systems to.

good to hear you enjoy your church and that its good for the kids. i always wonder if i would feel better at a church for the kids sake, if and when i have them.

until then, i will continue to encourage people to look at things differently. i bit the bait... the terms and explanations i use here are the types of things that i needed to hear in my life. we can always blame the devil and the deciever and say that its harder to stick to the straight and narrow etc. but as i said, when i heard of alternative explanations, my body and mind just absorbed them. it was a relief to be a different sort of christian. that is a person who listens to what christ has to say. i can now even live with the 'fact' that jesus didn't even need to have existed. he didn't need to have been the son of god or born of a virgin. like the 'hellfire', the 'magic' played a part in gaining people's attention and belief. they both also compensated for a lack of science/understanding and information.

what would jesus do now? make sure there was no fear generated in relation to religion. the next generation of 'good news'.

if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:14/02/2006 7:57 AMCopy HTML

just read the bit about not entering the christian room with the wish to be antagonistic.

apologies to all. love, prophet, etc. i've possibly been aggressive and a bully.

*hard to lose this conscience*
if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:17/02/2006 1:27 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : avenger dude

The Christian Room... Define Christian. what do you think a christian is, just so i know whether i am one or not...?

 

Hi

Just to let you know that you are one.

It's on your census

And even if it wasn't.

You still are.

Coz a Christian is someone like Christ.

And you are.

Like you rebel

And you question

And you think

You've suffered for your beliefs

And you are suffering still.

You try to make ppl see the light.

You have the Word of God written on your heart.

Or is it all in your mind (?)

You answer an angry word with a soft reply

And there are people out there who follow you

And there are people on here who are trying to crucify you.

So yeah.

That's the answer ok.

Any other questions??

x

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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:18/02/2006 10:27 PMCopy HTML

thank you from the bottom of my heart.

but i realise that i do spit poison darts from time to time.

i don't mean to hurt.

but perhaps i do.

maybe it's the venom that has been injected into me.

nonetheless,

i hope the people at the receiving end have a strong force-field.

if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:21/02/2006 8:24 PMCopy HTML

well, looks like this thread is over for now.

it appears that no matter how much i try to deny or attack christianity, my deeply ingrained jesus complex shines through.

i've been reading a marxist essay by althusser entitled 'ideology and the ideological state apparatus', and it kinda of sums up some of my sentiments in a few words;

basically that the church is an ideological state apparatus.

it is no reason to offend or accuse 'good christians' (who usually acknowledge that the church is obviously going to be imperfect, being run by people).

i am sorry for these people who get dragged into or caught up in the psychological warfare of church politics, but it is one of the dangers of being involved in a site like this.

also, some people, who see the history of church politics and 'the conspiracy' behind it as huge injustice (some people see it a "Beautiful Lie") can react with too much emotion, especially if the replies are seriously contaminated by what 'we' are fighting against. but it is not the fault of the messenger, in a way.

when i say some things that are radical and provocative, sometime i want to learn from the reaction too. in a way i wound't mind someone telling me i'm wrong if they can explain that they know where i'm coming from and have an appropriate alternative suggestion.

i also would like to say thanks for putting up with the egotistical nature of my posts - always in the context of me and my expreriences, but i think this is ok, especially if we are aware of it ourselves (uncomfortably). i hope it makes my posts more 'genuine' than blatant 'trollism'.

 

if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
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Re:Define Christian. What do you think a christian is?.. Just so I know whether I am one or not.

Date Posted:21/02/2006 9:44 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : avenger dude

well, looks like this thread is over for now.it appears that no matter how much i try to deny or attack christianity, my deeply ingrained jesus complex shines through.i've been reading a marxist essay by althusser entitled 'ideology and the ideological state apparatus', and it kinda of sums up some of my sentiments in a few words;basically that the church is an ideological state apparatus.it is no reason to offend or accuse 'good christians' (who usually acknowledge that the church is obviously going to be imperfect, being run by people).i am sorry for these people who get dragged into or caught up in the psychological warfare of church politics, but it is one of the dangers of being involved in a site like this.also, some people, who seethe history of church politics and 'the conspiracy'behind it as h

Yeah, I think Prophet and Love left the debate a long time ago.

Not that it was a debate... most of the 'discussions' on this site are by people who have already made up their minds way before they start debating. Maybe something rubs off on each other. Hopefully, we at least become more tolerant when we look at the beliefs of others. The point of discussing things here is mostly to promote your belief and kick as much dirt into each others' eyes as possible (well, so it seems sometimes.. or is that just me?).

I'd have to admit I have a grudge against tongues-necessity preachers because they exclude so many integrous people trom their version of who will be accepted into heaven. L&P (love and prophet) didn't preach that stuff and have moved away from that belief and for that I tip my hat and give 'em credit. Still, their criteria for who deserves a 'christian' title is still rigid. They are still exclusive and hold to the fact that babies are sinful and should grow up knowing they are sinful so that when they understand how sinful they are they can finally repent of it. There's a deformed logic there that just doesn't gel.

But that's all been said.

I love the stuff Flax wrote a few posts ago. 

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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