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dajudge
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Date Posted:27/01/2006 8:57 AMCopy HTML

years ago while on holiday from Adelaide I went to a meeting in Qld and the pastor said to me in a private disscussion " are they still misquoting that scripture in Heb 13 : 17 to keep the people in line "I asked if that was the wrong way of looking at it what did it really say ! he told me that the word account is from the greek word logos which means the Word Of God and that it really means to obey the word of God which is given for your souls and they must give you the Word for you with joy and not with grief for to have the Word without joy is not profitable for you So that means no harsh talks. Looking further into this i foundalot of misquotes they use to keep people in subjection and if you look at this site [http://insearchofacity.org/files/ecc.html] you will find the truth of what is going on This 40 page document called the great ecclesiatical CONspiracy began with the translation of the original King James Bible in which it was translated from the Geneva Bible and certain parts were mistranslated so that he could maintain rule over the people through the church. Jesus said it should not be so amoung you so we now have what Jesus said not to do. I believe GOD is waking His people up in the last days to the truth of things so that the last days warning is heeded "Beware that no MAN decieves you"
dajudge
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:27/01/2006 8:57 AMCopy HTML

years ago while on holiday from Adelaide I went to a meeting in Qld and the pastor said to me in a private disscussion " are they still misquoting that scripture in Heb 13 : 17 to keep the people in line "I asked if that was the wrong way of looking at it what did it really say ! he told me that the word account is from the greek word logos which means the Word Of God and that it really means to obey the word of God which is given for your souls and they must give you the Word for you with joy and not with grief for to have the Word without joy is not profitable for you So that means no harsh talks.                                                                        Looking further into this i foundalot of misquotes they use to keep people in subjection and if you look at this site    [ http://insearchofacity.org/files/ecc.html ] you will find the truth of what is going on This 40 page document called the great ecclesiatical CONspiracy began with the translation of the original King James Bible in which it was translated from the Geneva Bible and certain parts were mistranslated so that he could maintain rule over the people through the church. Jesus said it should not be so amoung you so we now have what Jesus said not to do. I believe GOD is waking His people up in the last days to the truth of things so that the last days warning is heeded "Beware that no MAN decieves you"
dajudge
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:29/01/2006 12:01 PMCopy HTML

However : when you read Heb 13:17 in both the Geneva and Tyndale bibles they openly also say to obey your oversight - in fact that word obey is featured in this verse in most translations modern and old. So why point the finger at the KJV ??

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:30/01/2006 5:37 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



However : whenyou read Heb 13:17 in both the Geneva and Tyndale bibles they openly also say to obey your oversight - in fact that word obey is featured in this verse in most translations modern and old. So why point the finger at the KJV ??





The word obey is (peitho) is in the passive voice and simply means to be persuaded.To win over.
Oversite is never to rule over but to guide.
Paul counted himself a fellow worker not a ruler.
Jesus said the Gentiles lord it over one another but with you it will not be so.
If you want to be incharge,or guide a group you must be their servant.
No where in Scritpure is there rulership over the flock.
No where in Scripture are we commanded to obey men.

We are told to give double honour to those that work tirelessly to guide us and teach us and help us HONOUR nor obedience

Christ is the head of the (church) Ekklesia He it is whom we must obey.

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:30/01/2006 5:42 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



The word obey is (peitho) is in the passive voice and simply means to be persuaded.To win over.Oversite is never to rule over but to guide.Paul counted himself a fellow worker not a ruler.Jesus said the Gentiles lord it over one another but with you it will not be so.If you want to be incharge,or guide a group you must be their servant.No where in Scritpure is there rulership over the flock.No where in Scripture are we commanded to obey men.We are told to give double





That was from the Prophet who was logged in.

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:30/01/2006 7:58 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[George]%*'`@

Hi John,

 

George Richter here, email me at ggrichter@gmail.com living in Brisbane now love to catch up over the email

spot ya George

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:02/02/2006 8:49 PMCopy HTML

Reply to The Prophet:

The word obey is (peitho) is in the passive voice and simply means to be persuaded.To win over.Oversite is never to rule over but to guide.Paul counted himself a fellow worker not a ruler.Jesus said the Gentiles lord it over one another but with you it will not be so.If you want to be incharge,or guide a group you must be their servant.No where in Scritpure is there rulership over the flock.No where in Scripture are we commanded to obey men.We are told to give double

 

That being the case, why then has every translation team for almost every bible version available simply translated it as "obey your oversight"?? You'd think these translation teams would know a little more that you or I about the Greek texts, so they coulda said "be pursuaded by your oversight".  But they didn't. 

Heb 13:17 KJV
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 13:17 AMP
Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to them [continually recognizing their authority over you], for they are constantly keeping watch over your souls and guarding your spiritual welfare, as men who will have to render an account [of their trust]. [Do your part to] let them do this with gladness and not with sighing and groaning, for that would not be profitable to you [either].

Heb 13:17 NIV
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Heb 13:17 NLT
Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

Heb 13:17 NRSV
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls and will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with sighing - for that would be harmful to you.

Heb 13:17 NASB
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

 Heb 13:17 ESV
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Heb 13:17 GNB
Obey your leaders and follow their orders. They watch over your souls without resting, since they must give to God an account of their service. If you obey them, they will do their work gladly; if not, they will do it with sadness, and that would be of no help to you.

Heb 13:17 NCV
Obey your leaders and act under their authority. They are watching over you, because they are responsible for your souls. Obey them so that they will do this work with joy, not sadness. It will not help you to make their work hard. 
 

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:02/02/2006 9:00 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Free]%*'`@the above post is me (Free)
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:02/02/2006 10:41 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous (Free)


Reply to The Prophet:That being the case, why then has every translation team for almost every bible version available simply translated it as "obey your oversight"?? You'd think these translation teams would know a little more that you or I about the Greek texts, so they coulda said "be purs

What are you trying to say here Free? Are you pedaling the idea that people should submit themselves to whatever nutcase is leading the group at a particular time... or just making conversation. I don't care how many translators put a slant towards oversight obedience without question. That's messed up and that's why millions get messed up. Unable to think for themselves people herd themselves to leaders who they think are something special.

Perhaps if you line that scripture up with this one in 1 Peter it makes more sense. Ya see, the only reason I take advice from my workplace managers etc is because they've got experience and stuff is working for them. They have earned some of my respect and deserve some.

"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble" (I Peter 5:5).

In a realistic model, I don't believe this verse refers to what is generally termed as church elders, but rather to those who are older and more knowledgeable in your field (in this scenario, your church). Respect is deserved by anyone older and a bit wiser... yep Revivalists, even women! Corrolate it with the following verse also:

"Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity" (I Timothy 5:1-2).

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 1:15 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Free [Anonymous]

the above post is me (Free)  - all about OBEY an earthly leader......
Mathew 23:  Jesus Warns the Religious Leaders
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures. 3 So practice and obey whatever they say to you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. 4 They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden.
5 "Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside,* and they wear extra long tassels on their robes. 6 And how they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the most prominent seats in the synagogue! 7 They enjoy the attention they get on the streets, and they enjoy being called `Rabbi.'* 8 Don't ever let anyone call you `Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters.* 9 And don't address anyone here on earth as `Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don't let anyone call you `Master,' for there is only one master, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you won't let others enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and you won't go in yourselves.* 15 Yes, how terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn him into twice the son of hell as you yourselves are.
 
Jesus would call the Revival leaders sons of hell - as above.  He gives a perfect description of them above.  They are just like the Pharisees.  They crush you with impossible religious demands and don't help anyone.  Jesus says we are all on the same level as brothers!  Jesus says anyone who wants to be a leader must be a servant!  Are the Revival leaders being servants?  No!  So, Jesus says they are not leaders, they are not great.  Jesus says it will be terrible for them because they are making themselves out to be God by telling people who can and can't enter heaven.  Jesus says they will not go into heaven and calls thems sons of hell!
 
Are those the people you want to obey?  Not me.  Get away from them - they are leading many to hell - as Jesus says.
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 8:00 AMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Free]%*'`@Reply to : Anonymous

Reply to : Free [Anonymous]the above post is me (Free) - all about OBEY an earthly leader......Mathew 23: Jesus Warns the Religious LeadersThenJesus saidto the crowds and to his disciples,2"The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures.3So practice and obey whatever they say to you, butdon't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach.4They crush you with impossible religious deman
I think that's a bit overboard dont you?!  I mean my pastor does serve us - he listens and takes on any suggestions we make.  I doubt Jesus was referring to NT church pastors here in particular - he was talking about traditional Jewish leaders who still to this day dont believe Jesus has come at all.
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 8:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Free [Anonymous]
I think that's a bit overboard dont you?! I mean my pastor does serve us - he listens and takes on any suggestions we make. I doubt Jesus was referring to NT church pastors here in particular - he was talking about traditional Jewish leaders who still to this day dont believe Jesus h

Not overboard at all.  If they are teaching Jesus is not God - they are leading many to hell - just like the Jewish leaders - they don't believe Jesus is God!

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 8:46 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



Reply to The Prophet:The word obey is (peitho) is in the passive voice and simply means to be persuaded.To win over.Oversite is never to rule over but to guide.Paul counted himself a fellow worker not a ruler.Jesus said the Gentiles lord it over one another but with you it will not be so.If you want to be incharge,or guide a group you must be their servant.No where in Scritpure is there rulership over the flock.No where in Scripture are we commanded to obey men.We are told to give doubleThat being the case, why then has every translation team for almost every bible version available simply translated it as "obey your oversight"?? You'd think these translation teams would know a little more that you or I about the Greek texts, so they coulda said "be purs





Well free,
What your saying is I,m wrong... and Jesus and Paul got it wrong.

To rule over.
authority
command
control
domination
dominion
mastery
might
power
supremacy

The opposite (antonym)
servillity
servitude
weakness.........sounds more like it.

Rule over =paraphrased.. Hegeomal.....meaning to go before.

Remember the translations are in accord with church traditions ...control over the Lord,s flock I think not, its all about contolling MY flock which is not Scriptural???

Check your various concordances for the meaning of obey its as I said.


The same reason the word church is in all translations.
But church is not Greek ,English,or Hebrew ....so why is it in an English Bible....?
The word is Ekklesia which has never been translated...the Body of Christ or the assembly of believers.

Strange things happen in translating traditions, bias, etc.

Try not to be so dogmattic and contolling...humble serving caring.


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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 12:28 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous

                                          "

Mathew 23:  Jesus Warns the Religious Leaders
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the Scriptures. 3 So practice and obey whatever they say to you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. 4 They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden.
5 "Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside,* and they wear extra long tassels on their robes. 6 And how they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the most prominent seats in the synagogue! 7 They enjoy the attention they get on the streets, and they enjoy being called `Rabbi.'* 8 Don't ever let anyone call you `Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters.* 9 And don't address anyone here on earth as `Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don't let anyone call you `Master,' for there is only one master, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you won't let others enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and you won't go in yourselves.* 15 Yes, how terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn him into twice the son of hell as you yourselves are.
 
Amen!!!! spot on the money bro!!!
 
Its the job of the HolyGhost to lead us and control us in the main. Not some Revival pastar with no real bible training or understanding.
 
The word "obey" is a wrong translation, and should be read as "Guides" Guides as in a way a sheepard gently leads his flock. Hardly the picture we get from the revival centers pastars!
 
A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall. Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:03/02/2006 12:47 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : The Prophet


                    "Well free, What your saying is I,m wrong... and Jesus and Paul got it wrong.

                     To rule over. authority command control domination dominion mastery might power supremacy

                    The opposite (antonym) servillity servitude weakness.........sounds more like it. "

 

Oh please, Prophet come on!!

"To rule over " is only a licence to butcher and control the sheep! Not to gently guide them like what the bible is truely saying here.

But i'm understanding to your ingnorance of such things if you are indeed part of the revival centers. There is a  false god in the revival groups and its name is  called the "CONTROL god" 

Which like its done to you infects its teaching to every part of your life and mind!

Sadly for those who leave the revival groups it can take years of detox's to get the false rubbish out of there minds and hearts, and to get Good sound ministry and healing.

 

 


 

A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall. Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:04/02/2006 11:51 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Wazza blind but now i see



Reply to : The Prophet "Well free, What your saying is I,m wrong... and Jesus and Paul got it wrong. To rule over. authority command control domination dominion mastery might power supremacy The opposite (antonym) servillity servitude weakness.........sounds more like it. "Oh please, Prophet come on!!"To rule over " is only a licence to butcher and control the sheep! Not to gently guide them like what the bible is truely sa





Wazza Blind and a nut ???
Obviously you don,t read English very well.
Please read.....my post again.....!
I said no where in the bible are we to RULE OVER anybody.
I was disagreeing with another post.Anonymous visitor.
I said the word rule over is as dictatorship etc when we should serve,
Please try and keep up.

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:04/02/2006 1:43 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Wazza blind but now i see

There is a  false god in the revival groups and its name is  called the "CONTROL god" 

Now aint that a fact !!

Old McKuhlman had a farm Ye I Ye I Yooo

and on this farm he had some sheep Ye I Ye I yooo

with a whip whip here and a whip whip there everywhere a whip whip..

 

Yep Wazza you got it right there dingo

cheers

anon

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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:04/02/2006 2:04 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Anonymous



Reply to : Wazza blind but now i seeThere is afalsegod in the revival groups and its name iscalled the"CONTROL god"Now aint that a fact !!Old McKuhlman had a farm Ye I Ye I Yoooand on this farm he had some sheep Ye I Ye I yooowith a whip whip here and a whip whip there everywhere a whip whip..Yep Wazza you got it right there dingocheersanon





I THINK ONE OF THE MANY REASONS FOR CONTROL IS THAT THE LEADERSHIP IS AFRAID THAT THE MEMBERS WILL WAKE UP AND SEE THE MANY DOCTRINAL LIES AND FANTASYS OF THE GROUP.
FEAR IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST WEOPANS THEY USE, TO CONTROL ITS MEMBERS. FEAR OF LOSING FAMILY AND FREINDS IF THEY WONT TO LEAVE, FEAR OF BEING TOLD THAT ALL OTHER CHURCHS DON'T HAVE ALL THE TRUTH.( I MEAN WHAT A LOAD OF CROCK....!)
BUT ONE THING I HAVE COME TO SEE IS THAT JESUS is everything that the Revival Centers Pastars are not!
Thats for sure!
A man died and went to heaven. He was met by Jesus and Jesus began to show him around. As they walked they saw some amazing things. Some too beautiful and amazing to describe. Eventually they came to a huge wall and the man heard the sound of music, laughing and what basically sounded like a party coming from behind the wall. Curious, the man asked Jesus what was going on behind the wall. Jesus answered, "Shhhh!!! Not too loud. That"s the GRC. They think they"re the only ones here!!!"
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:04/02/2006 6:45 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : The Prophet

What your saying is I,m wrong... and Jesus and Paul got it wrong.

How dare someone call the trinity wrong... You, Jesus and Paul!

I'm sorry, but you keep setting yourself up.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:04/02/2006 7:10 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Free]%*'`@hahaha you guys are funny  - very touchy and the on the defensive.
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 7:38 AMCopy HTML



earth5
 17/03/2007 08:10:02 AM

 

Another big struggle for many ex revers, we are very guarded once we leave and never wnat to put in a position where anyone will "tell us what to do"

I think to be cautious on this one is wise, dont just let anyone be you "pastor".

In the end we must find a place where we can trust again, its part of the healing proccess, I have found that most Leaders that I have fellowshiped with are gentle and loving and pastoral in its true'st sense. There are those out there to be aware of,and our inbuile control radar will kick in real quick on these ones

Unkoolmail

"As man is, so is his God; And thus is God, oft strangely odd" - Goethe

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 1:01 PMCopy HTML

Another big struggle for many ex revers, we are very guarded once we leave and never wnat to put in a position where anyone will "tell us what to do"

I think to be cautious on this one is wise, dont just let anyone be you "pastor".

In the end we must find a place where we can trust again, its part of the healing proccess, I have found that most Leaders that I have fellowshiped with are gentle and loving and pastoral in its true'st sense. There are those out there to be aware of,and our inbuile control radar will kick in real quick on these ones


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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 6:42 PMCopy HTML

Hebrews 13/7 So, as it reads, "Remember your leaders, who spoke THE WORD OF GOD, to you, Consider the OUTCOME OF THEIR WAY OF LIFE , and imitate, THEIR FAITH.

These are leaders that you would want to obey as you would be impressed by their application of Gods Word to their way of life, and you would want that for yourself and  your family if that was the case. 

A leader such as this is not going to instruct you to do anything that is contrary to the word, and would understand if God was putting you through a difficult prolonged trial.

Such a leader would possess all the below qualities as abreviated but found in 1st Timothy and Titus.

QUALIFICATIONS FOR ELDERS/LEADERS.

SELF-CONTROLLED    HOSPITABLE    ABLE TO TEACH    NOT VIOLENT BUT GENTLE    NOT QUARRELSOME    NOT A LOVER OF MONEY    NOT A RECENT CONVERT    HAS A GOOD REPUTATION WITH OUTSIDERS    NOT OVERBEARING      NOT QUICK-TEMPERED    LOVES WHAT IS GOOD    UPRIGHT, HOLY    DISCIPLINED    ABOVE REPROACH (BLAMELESS)    HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE    TEMPERATE    RESPECTABLE    NOT GIVEN TO DRUNKENNESS    MANAGES HIS OWN FAMILY WELL    SEES THAT HIS CHILDREN OBEY HIM    DOES NOT PURSUE DISHONEST GAIN    HOLDS TO THE TRUTH    SINCERE    TESTED.            

Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #23
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 8:15 PMCopy HTML

Thats all very well and good and right charty, what my post is trying to say though is that there are many who find it hard to trust a leader again after comming out of rcf/rci etc.

My question is how did/do people deal with that?

For me it was a process (and sometimes ongoing) I asked lots of questions until i felt satisfied that where I was fellowshiping was Safe

singed but not destroyed Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #24
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 9:29 PMCopy HTML

exactly earth 5 I agree and some of us ( myself at present) may never feel comfortable being part of an organisation or church again after the damage that has been caused. Only time will tell.
 Reply to : earth5

Thats all very well and good and right charty, what my post is trying to say though is that there are many who find it hard to trust a leader again after comming out of rcf/rci etc.My question is how did/do people deal with that?For me it was a process (and sometimes ongoing) I asked lots of questions until i felt satisfied that where I was fellowshiping was Safe
if you can`t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I did and what a relief!!
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #25
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:16/03/2007 9:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : earth5

Thats all very well and good and right charty, what my post is trying to say though is that there are many who find it hard to trust a leader again after comming out of rcf/rci etc.My question is how did/do people deal with that?For me it was a process (and sometimes ongoing) I asked lots of questions until i felt satisfied that where I was fellowshiping was Safe

People who lead let it go to their head... absolute power corrupts absolutely... and a little power corrupts a little. I see it even in all the teachers I work with, and I see it in myself. Some people lead and others follow, but heck, some people shouldn't be leading I think that church people who are bred and buttered in controlling environments become conditioned to it and should kick the damn habit. You don't need to rely on other people to continuously tell you how to live.

Leader following addicts love and yearn for someone to lead them... and will crave other people to do it to them. Good leaders tell their follower that by changing their habits they can change themselves (Dr Phil is a good example), but the advice is temporal because without the continual support of a authority in their lives they fall back to old habits very quickly. It's a vicious circle of dependancy. They then hope another leader will help them change for the better... but that's exploited by the leaders (pastors).

The paradox lies in the new charismatic figure of the moment, the new pastor of the 'better' church whom people could trust and follow, who will never do anything publically self-defeating.  Why would they want to destroy the myth, and lose their grand position in society?  It's not going to happen. It's in the nature of the typical church leader to be crowd-pleasing.

What attracts the easily lead christian to church-hop, a better doctrine... or a better leader.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #26
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:17/03/2007 5:45 AMCopy HTML

I don't have superiors or inferiors. I don't have leaders coz I don't need them. I am a grown up and I can work stuff out for myself.

Why don't ppl who have the need to control others ever sit down and ask themselves why they need to do that. It really isn't healthy. Being a parent (sometimes a very bad one) has taught me that every time I feel the need for control and start losing grip coz I don't have it, I need to step back and asky myself why. Why am I treating my kids like the Revivals treated me? The reason is always the same. Fear. I lost two years of relationship with my eldest daughter coz of that fear. Fear that she was scum bcoz she wasn't following God's ways. Luckily I taught her how to be forgiving too.

I am at the point now where I don't recognise any authority except for the authority pointing a gun at me. I won't give the power to anyone ever again to hurt me the way I have been hurt.

Chartdoctor Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #27
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Re:Coming under authority again - (hebrews 13:17)

Date Posted:18/03/2007 7:20 AMCopy HTML

Agreed, arth5, "Singed", Moth, and Galien, I was just quoting what Paul and God would have as an ideal leader of a church, obviously, a little hard to locate.

We are to "WORK OUT OUR OWN, SALVATION, WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING"  This can be a little hard to do with someone thinking they know what is best for us, God has an individual plan for each and every child of his, and for anyone to know the varous intracacies ,buried emotions in just one person, let alone a whole congregation, is just too preposterous to be believed

If we dont work out our salvation with fear and trembling then we are in danger or at least possible danger of 'THE BLIND FOLLOW THE BLIND AND BOTH FALL IN THE DITCH"  and here is a strong statement,

"CURSED IS THE ONE WHO TRUST IN MAN, WHO DEPENDS ON FLESH FOR HIS STRENGTH, AND WHOSE HEART TURNS AWAY FROM THE LORD".  jER17/5

We may not THINK that we are following men, but are you calling your pastor a 'PASTOR" . 5 Verses in Matthew 23 tell us NOT to do this, all are brothers, one teacher, JESUS,

A brother in the GRC who used to call himself an Apostle, no longer does this after it was pointed out.

 

RCI prophesies
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