This all depends on how you view it.

If you view it with the way it happens in the world or as per the topic title, then you are correct. I have not heard of a single family go together to a church and have a great friendly family time. I guess this would be a rare thing.

On the other hand, if you view it as the family of God sitting at Jesus' feet as he speaks to them the word of God then this is real family time. Even when his mother and brothers were standing without desiring to speak with him he said to those sitting at his feet "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I take the time to empower in my kids the love of reading the word in their own time and applying it in their lives. I teach them that it is not something that they will achieve if they leave it only to the Sunday meetings. It is their new life and God expects nothing less than for them to walk in the newness. I also teach them that it is their responsibility to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling as they will have to give account to God one day. I also teach them that God provides answers and victories to all the problems that they encounter in this life and that God is in the business of leading us from here to spend eternity with him. It is not a "have to" thing, it is a "want" to. They will only get there if they really want to.

I go to meetings on a Sunday because I want to. I have 4 out of 6 kids that are filled with the Spirt and they didn't get it because they were forced to. Each one of the 4 sought the Lord to fill them with the Spirit willingly. What a joy it is to behold that my kids want to go to church on a Sunday. It may not always be like this as we all have to make our own decisions. My kids are aware that it is their decision whether to be a part of the whosoever or to stand without.
Ask them where they rather be on a Sunday?

Choruses are great - I listen to the words because they are about the Lord, about me getting there, about me keeping focus when this busy life is attempting to kill off the only thing that has any value.

Testimonies - How many times do I remember what I have heard in testimony and passed it onto someone who needed to hear it. A healing, a victory over a similar situation.

The talk - Words from the bible to the whosoever.

Communion - A time for me to reflect and judge myself so that I will not be judged. Not a condemnation thing but to remain in the liberty that Jesus purchase for me on the cross and that I walk in now.

Gifts - A great comfort and direction as it ministers to my heart the very words I need to hear. I am sitting at Jesus' feet just like they did back then.

The complete opposite of a ritual but when compared to other churches, decently and in order.

In the time of Moses God prepared a lot of words but only Joshua and Caleb were willing to hear them. Yes life would have been busy with all the putting the tents down and lots of trekking in the wilderness, seeing lots of people die, their WHOLE family passed away in the wilderness, then seeing lot's of battles but Joshua and Caleb made it into the promised land just as God had promised.

You may think that it is a ritual, you may think that it is a thing that rips families apart but what would Joshua and Caleb have thought? I don't think that packing the tents in the middle of a hot day for the 150th time in the last 35 years would have seemed like a ritual. Especially, after seeing a few of your loved ones pass away and drop in the wilderness and as per God, you just had to keep walking on and leave it behind. I can't imagine that they had a grand ol' great family time - but they valued what it was that God had given them, and even when faced with the fact that the whole congregation, which no doubt included some of their "beloved" family, were ready to stone them.  Joshua and Caleb tried to encourage them that they had the victory if only they would trust and obey the Lord. Not one word of negativity or ill feeling came out of there mouth, even when considering that during there time in the wilderness they could have come out with hundreds of negatives and reasons why it was bad to keep walking on with the Lord. Isn’t it a marvel, not a single bad thing came out of their mouth.

Not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is...I guess Sunday is more convenient than any other day but even if it was a Monday night or any other night I would still "drag" my kids, "drag" myself to get there because I know that it is good for me and I am never disappointed. And even if there was only one person sitting there listening to a talk that a pastor had prepared, and that person was me, I can assure you that it would not have been a waste of time, not for a single moment.

When I get home from work my time belongs to my family which includes my kids. It's only when they have all gone to bed that I can do something for myself, and more often than not, I spend it with the Lord, reading the word, playing music in my home studio, or checking out stuff on the web like this web site. I didn't drag myself to this web site but came here willingly. It is 1:20am and I am going to be missing out on some much needed sleep, but I just had the urge to put in my 2c worth because I go to a Revival Centre and find it nothing like most people here portray it to be.

Yes, you will have people come and go, you will have a lot of people who will tell you it was a waste of time but I would question whose time was it that was wasted? It wasn't mine. I am still here rejoicing in the fact that I will live for ever with the Lord and no less. I am thankful that every voice gift, every talk, every testimony is there for one purpose, to edify me so that when the trumpet sounds I will get a new body and rise to meet the Lord in the air. Singing a chorus like "Every promise in the book is mine" a thousand times is really great especially at a time when you think less then what the word says but get reminded by the song that the reality is that all the promises are yours.

You see, I will defend the fact that we are at the edge of the promised land and I am saying let us go in at once and possess it for God has given it to us. Even when others are saying that the cities are walled and there are chariots of iron and finding fault with every word of encouragement. I have seen websites like this come and go and lots of people put the RCI under the microscope and bag every minute particle to the emph degree but God knows that it is nothing like that. We can possess that promises of God so just ignore the fact that you are getting bombarded and keep your eyes on the vision that God has placed within you. There are so many wolves in sheep’s clothing it is no wonder that God has had to anoint you by himself so that no man can deceive you. Once God fills you with his spirit then it is up to you whether you go on and walk in it or not - the choice is yours.

Check out the confusion with tongues. Paul says "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all" yet in the church......What he was saying is that in his private prayer life he prays in tongues more than anyone else...Can you say amen to that? Without praying in tongues regularly and often, you have nothing - we are encouraged to pray without ceasing.

In the church, we are told to use tongues at the most by two or three and with interpretation so that the church may be edified and not just the person that happens to be speaking in tongues at the time. If it is done in the proper manner that is written then three things will occur 1) The person who spoke out in tongues will edify themselves. 2) When interpreted the congregation will get edified 3) It will serve as a sign to the unbelievers.
-This is decently and in order and not a ritual. It is only a ritual to the person who sees it as a ritual but to those that see it the way God sees it, it is a message from God to his people.

In acts chapter 10, let's suppose you were one of Cornelius' household and you were witnessing Peter expounding the Gospel. When the spirit had fallen on all of them and they all spoke out in tongues - the same thing would have happened to you. So, why not now? It is so simple that my 5 year old could grasp it to the point where he has called out to the Lord and has been filled with the spirit speaking in tongues himself and yet it baffles adults 10 times his age. If it is good enough for Peter to know that the spirit had been received by Cornelius and his household because they heard them speak with tongues, why is it not good enough for us today? Is it not the same Gospel?

I have been going to the RCI since 1991 after I had stammered in a tongue in 1986. Since that time my life has been abundantly blessed beyond comprehension. Before coming to the Lord, I was brought up in an Orthodox religion but that failed to do anything to stop my living a hopeless and depressed life clouded in mystery, not knowing anything. Questions like why do I die? Why do I live, why am I so depressed?  What happens when I die? Why can't I just end it all? Even though life was not the best I didn’t want to die etc etc all the usual questions. However, one day when I plainly spoke to the Lord (prayed) I just said things like "Lord please send your son to cleanse me. Lord, I need help. I am completely lost and haven't got a clue. Lord, I am pathetic and a dead dog without you, and many other such things, not long after I was filled with the spirit and spoke out in tongues. Upon receiving the Spirit all these questions and fears and doubts have left me. Now I am confident and confidently await the return of the Lord. I can remember how I was and how I am now. There is no way that I ever want to go back there again. And I have not one bad thing to say about the ministry of the Holy Ghost. Yes, things will happen, those will come that will try and lead disciples away, those will come that will try and cause division, many will come trying to chip away at the faith that I have received - these things are fact and are no surprise as they are all written about in the bible. Not because the word of God has failed but because many have tried to take the gift of God and turn it into another man made thing - it's doomed to failure. Didn't Paul say that with tears he warned them day and night that there will come those that try to lead others astray, that will not spare the flock? I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the ministry of the Holy Ghost. All you have to do is to repent, be baptised and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. From then on it is between you and the Lord but the Lord will want you to learn and grow and to take the example of Israel complaining and mumbling and grumbling against God and Moses in the wilderness and not to do the same but to be thankful.

Yes, I have seen many things happen and many come and go but through it all I can testify that the Lord has been true to his word and not one of the promises of his good word has failed. I have a life that is abundant and do not mind "dragging" my kids off to a meeting. I am reminded of a recent RCI meeting in Papua New Guinea where they do not have the luxury of air-conditioned cars...a brother walked for 5 days through the forest to attend a meeting and be with his brothers including those that flew up from Australia. Then, after a short stay it was again trekking for 5 days back to his village. You see, he knew what he had and 10 days of walking in the forest wasn't going to stop him from getting to a meeting. He did this willingly and without complaint.

I realise I must get to bed as it is 2:30am now and sleep will be scarce.

Thanks,

Vlad

Hi Vlad,

You seem to have a great love for the God of the bible, and you seem to place great reliance on the bible as God's written word. Like you I have been kept apart from the worst of the abuses related (and experienced) by many/most of those who post here. Like you, great assurance of God's love for me came at the time of my "speaking in tongues" experience ministered through RCI.

In recent times, though, I have come to realise the link between tongues and the Holy Spirit, amongst other things preached in RCI and RF, is quite *un*scriptural. As this is foundational to their doctrine, the whole doctrinal structure is as a result unsound - a house built on sand, as it were.

Consider the following two points arising from your post.
 
1) You write, "I have 4 out of 6 kids that are filled with the Spirt and they didn't get it because they were forced to." Yet the scripture, particularly the NT describes the Spirit as a person - the third person of a triune God. Do you and your family relate to the Spirit as a Him, or just an impersonal force. Are you ministered to by the Holy Spirit or more often by tongues and the 'buzz' you get from it?

2) You refer to the experience of Cornelius' household with tongues as if it were somehow normative, yet Peter when relating the events to the church at Jerusalem in Acts chapter 11 doesn't just say, "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us." He actually says, "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning." Why would he say "at the beginning" if tongues were normative - happening all the time? Further, why did Luke, under God's inspiration, chose to record that phrase?

I could question a number of other assumptions you seem to have about tongues, such as what Paul was saying to the Corinthians about the relative significance of tongues and whether all Christians speak in tongues, but my prayer is that you and yours would start pondering the implications of the two points I mention.

My prayer is that you would seek to understand what the written word says, using all the tools available, illumined by the Holy Spirit and not just accept the RCI spin on what it says. My prayer is that you would seek to understand your experience in the light of God's word, rather than interpret God's word in the light of your experience.

Hi WR, you might want to start reading at Rci pastor has been uncovered to get a better understanding of things and for what is really happening in the organisation that you hold true to.

The rot and disease has come from the senior oversight in the support of those doing wrong, including the disgraceful way that they have treated those who need caring the most. 
Your right in the fact that you don't judge the majority by the minority but when the senior leaders are at fault, it is then that one needs to re-evaluate their stand on things. Just have a good read, keep an open mind, look at the newspaper reports, then pray, and seek the lord for direction. If your at BoxHill ask your self this, why is there so much turmoil there, why are so many folk leaving ??? Is there something going on that you're not aware off ??? 

Yours in christ Im_out

Now WR,

Where did I assume that you were "brought up in RCI"? You might like to re-read my second sentence.

Of course you came to your conclusions yourself. The issue is what was the basis of your conclusions, and how they were drawn. If you say that the bible is at the heart of your beliefs and you believe the RCI salvation message, then you are not reading those words with the same care that should be applied to any book, let alone using the care that God's word requires. As I said, I was in that position for 30 years ... and I had post-graduate qualifications and an above average IQ and level of reading comprehension.

Let me give you an example of the blinkers you're wearing. You say that scripture is "not of private interpretation". Yet the RCI "salvation message" differs from what was and is believed by the vast majority of Christians down through history - including those who speak in tongues - ie that one enters into the new covenant when one confesses Jesus as Lord and saviour.  Which interpretation is private, yours or theirs?

I'll say it again. The RCI "salvation message" is *not* biblical. Again I challenge you to (payerfully) engage with the essays at pleaseconsider.info. 

WR

** sigh **

You've played fast-and-loose with my words just as the RCI "salvation message" does with the words of the bible, eg I wrote that my use of comprehension skills led me to *accept* RCI doctrine, but I can't be bothered pointing out anything else. (It was a great lesson in humility to have to admit that I had been wrong!) 

I know you think you've read the bible with care; so did I. If you actually *do* read them with care you'll see (amongst other things) that Paul explicitly writes that not all Christians speak in tongues, Mark 16 describes characteristics of Christians *as a group* not individuals, and that the Acts narrative supports those explicit teachings. These alone say, "RCI salvation message - wrong in both word and example."

If you want to quote scripture, maybe you should consider the teachings about those "with a hoary head" and bear in mind the one about prophesying in Jesus' name but not being known by him. Then there's the one about beams and splinters. ;-)

Finally, I'm not trying to convince you, so much as prompt you to put yourself in a metaphorical place where you hear the Spirit.

31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32.  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33.  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34.  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35.  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36.  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37.  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38.  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39.  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40.  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41.  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42.  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43.  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44.  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45.  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

A truly painful memory.

In another thread a guest wrote about a couple yelling at each other before and on the way to meetings. They were probably suffering stress.  It could be given the title of 'pre meeting tension' which I consider to be a very real complaint, affecting more than were prepared to admit to it; something I discovered years later when people began to open up and talk about the pressure they felt getting to all the meetings. 

Those 3pm Sunday meetings were awful.  Moth's post (1#) said it very well, the RCI with their late start and late finish on Sundays were not family friendly at all.

For a long time after joining RCI I thought the pre meeting tension we experienced was confined to our household only.  Others seemed to relish the meetings, couldn't get enough and eagerly looked forward to the next one, so they said, while I dreaded them and they came around so quickly.   Wondering how we could continue the requirement to be at every meeting (plus the worry of Young Peoples' 'compulsory' Saturday nights for a young teen) I spoke to a houseleader, who took it to an oversight, who quite possibly discussed our 'case' when leaders gathered to inform each other of problems which arise.  The advice I received was to be steadfast, pray about it and that 'Old Nick' was having a go at us.

The pre Sunday meeting atmosphere in our household was calm, but a contrived, unnatural, forced calm. Tension lay below the surface.  We spoke slowly and deliberately while getting ready, packing food for the between meeting dinner, sleeping bags packed for creche etc.  From the moment we awoke Sundays were geared toward getting ourselves to the meeting. No longer were we able, as before, to choose from a selection of service times giving us opportunity for family gatherings and outings.  Family had become 'the saints', family times were meeting times, fellowship times and whatever else was on as long as it was of Revival.  Sometimes there were whole weekends/long weekends devoted to assembly activities, announced from the notices after every meeting, with the expectation of full participation. 

Those late finishes on Sunday and Wednesday nights placed a lot of stress on families.  For families still in the groups I hope your leadership shows more consideration now than they used to. 

Epi