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Date Posted:17/12/2005 3:55 PMCopy HTML

$%*'`[Deep Throat Mole]%*'`@The Management are slightly concerned about the lack of bums on seats at the second Sunday meeting as a lot of the punters apparently are lashing after the Communion Service and not staying for the community picnic lunch and the following Prayer Service.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice">To counter this in 2006 the Prayer Service will be first cab off the rank at 1PM, and the lunch break will be shortened with the aim of the Communion Service finishing by 4:30 PM.Hpoe this helps!Deep Throat Mole
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:21/12/2005 9:17 PMCopy HTML

Revival Churches are anti-family...

1, 2 or 3 pm starting times are popular with Revival. Usually that means lunch has to be rushed and the kids showered and well dressed in the middle of a hot day. Everyone is stressed but putting on a strained grin for a chance to sit with 'the Saints' during another Sunday of rituals and tradition (Singsong, testimony, sermon, communion, gifts = rituals) and try dang hard not to fall asleep on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

Most families are lucky enough to have the weekend available for good 'together' time. Unfortunately though, many parents have to work on Saturdays... such are the times we live in. So how messed up is it that Revival asks families to give up most of their Sunday to 'the brothers and sisters' and not their own 'sons and daughters'.

Church is not family friendly!!! Adults sit passively in meetings while the kids are couped up in bible class or sat quietly on a mat with Lego. There is no interaction. Parents hope that valuable morals are being subliminally taken in during the talks.

It sucks... it really really sucks... and it is not healthy. I am so sorry I spent HUNDREDS of Sundays herding my kids to church when I could have been spending this valuable weekend time being with them. Revivalists... listen... take note... don't feel guilty for going home early or skipping some prayer meetings...  at least you are claiming some of the time of your life that is rightly yours to do with as you will. Spend some time with your kids. Shushing them for hours on a Sunday isn't cutting the mustard.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
Vlad V Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:26/06/2008 4:33 PMCopy HTML

This all depends on how you view it.

If you view it with the way it happens in the world or as per the topic title, then you are correct. I have not heard of a single family go together to a church and have a great friendly family time. I guess this would be a rare thing.

On the other hand, if you view it as the family of God sitting at Jesus' feet as he speaks to them the word of God then this is real family time. Even when his mother and brothers were standing without desiring to speak with him he said to those sitting at his feet "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I take the time to empower in my kids the love of reading the word in their own time and applying it in their lives. I teach them that it is not something that they will achieve if they leave it only to the Sunday meetings. It is their new life and God expects nothing less than for them to walk in the newness. I also teach them that it is their responsibility to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling as they will have to give account to God one day. I also teach them that God provides answers and victories to all the problems that they encounter in this life and that God is in the business of leading us from here to spend eternity with him. It is not a "have to" thing, it is a "want" to. They will only get there if they really want to.

I go to meetings on a Sunday because I want to. I have 4 out of 6 kids that are filled with the Spirt and they didn't get it because they were forced to. Each one of the 4 sought the Lord to fill them with the Spirit willingly. What a joy it is to behold that my kids want to go to church on a Sunday. It may not always be like this as we all have to make our own decisions. My kids are aware that it is their decision whether to be a part of the whosoever or to stand without.
Ask them where they rather be on a Sunday?

Choruses are great - I listen to the words because they are about the Lord, about me getting there, about me keeping focus when this busy life is attempting to kill off the only thing that has any value.

Testimonies - How many times do I remember what I have heard in testimony and passed it onto someone who needed to hear it. A healing, a victory over a similar situation.

The talk - Words from the bible to the whosoever.

Communion - A time for me to reflect and judge myself so that I will not be judged. Not a condemnation thing but to remain in the liberty that Jesus purchase for me on the cross and that I walk in now.

Gifts - A great comfort and direction as it ministers to my heart the very words I need to hear. I am sitting at Jesus' feet just like they did back then.

The complete opposite of a ritual but when compared to other churches, decently and in order.

In the time of Moses God prepared a lot of words but only Joshua and Caleb were willing to hear them. Yes life would have been busy with all the putting the tents down and lots of trekking in the wilderness, seeing lots of people die, their WHOLE family passed away in the wilderness, then seeing lot's of battles but Joshua and Caleb made it into the promised land just as God had promised.

You may think that it is a ritual, you may think that it is a thing that rips families apart but what would Joshua and Caleb have thought? I don't think that packing the tents in the middle of a hot day for the 150th time in the last 35 years would have seemed like a ritual. Especially, after seeing a few of your loved ones pass away and drop in the wilderness and as per God, you just had to keep walking on and leave it behind. I can't imagine that they had a grand ol' great family time - but they valued what it was that God had given them, and even when faced with the fact that the whole congregation, which no doubt included some of their "beloved" family, were ready to stone them.  Joshua and Caleb tried to encourage them that they had the victory if only they would trust and obey the Lord. Not one word of negativity or ill feeling came out of there mouth, even when considering that during there time in the wilderness they could have come out with hundreds of negatives and reasons why it was bad to keep walking on with the Lord. Isn’t it a marvel, not a single bad thing came out of their mouth.

Not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is...I guess Sunday is more convenient than any other day but even if it was a Monday night or any other night I would still "drag" my kids, "drag" myself to get there because I know that it is good for me and I am never disappointed. And even if there was only one person sitting there listening to a talk that a pastor had prepared, and that person was me, I can assure you that it would not have been a waste of time, not for a single moment.

When I get home from work my time belongs to my family which includes my kids. It's only when they have all gone to bed that I can do something for myself, and more often than not, I spend it with the Lord, reading the word, playing music in my home studio, or checking out stuff on the web like this web site. I didn't drag myself to this web site but came here willingly. It is 1:20am and I am going to be missing out on some much needed sleep, but I just had the urge to put in my 2c worth because I go to a Revival Centre and find it nothing like most people here portray it to be.

Yes, you will have people come and go, you will have a lot of people who will tell you it was a waste of time but I would question whose time was it that was wasted? It wasn't mine. I am still here rejoicing in the fact that I will live for ever with the Lord and no less. I am thankful that every voice gift, every talk, every testimony is there for one purpose, to edify me so that when the trumpet sounds I will get a new body and rise to meet the Lord in the air. Singing a chorus like "Every promise in the book is mine" a thousand times is really great especially at a time when you think less then what the word says but get reminded by the song that the reality is that all the promises are yours.

You see, I will defend the fact that we are at the edge of the promised land and I am saying let us go in at once and possess it for God has given it to us. Even when others are saying that the cities are walled and there are chariots of iron and finding fault with every word of encouragement. I have seen websites like this come and go and lots of people put the RCI under the microscope and bag every minute particle to the emph degree but God knows that it is nothing like that. We can possess that promises of God so just ignore the fact that you are getting bombarded and keep your eyes on the vision that God has placed within you. There are so many wolves in sheep’s clothing it is no wonder that God has had to anoint you by himself so that no man can deceive you. Once God fills you with his spirit then it is up to you whether you go on and walk in it or not - the choice is yours.

Check out the confusion with tongues. Paul says "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than ye all" yet in the church......What he was saying is that in his private prayer life he prays in tongues more than anyone else...Can you say amen to that? Without praying in tongues regularly and often, you have nothing - we are encouraged to pray without ceasing.

In the church, we are told to use tongues at the most by two or three and with interpretation so that the church may be edified and not just the person that happens to be speaking in tongues at the time. If it is done in the proper manner that is written then three things will occur 1) The person who spoke out in tongues will edify themselves. 2) When interpreted the congregation will get edified 3) It will serve as a sign to the unbelievers.
-This is decently and in order and not a ritual. It is only a ritual to the person who sees it as a ritual but to those that see it the way God sees it, it is a message from God to his people.

In acts chapter 10, let's suppose you were one of Cornelius' household and you were witnessing Peter expounding the Gospel. When the spirit had fallen on all of them and they all spoke out in tongues - the same thing would have happened to you. So, why not now? It is so simple that my 5 year old could grasp it to the point where he has called out to the Lord and has been filled with the spirit speaking in tongues himself and yet it baffles adults 10 times his age. If it is good enough for Peter to know that the spirit had been received by Cornelius and his household because they heard them speak with tongues, why is it not good enough for us today? Is it not the same Gospel?

I have been going to the RCI since 1991 after I had stammered in a tongue in 1986. Since that time my life has been abundantly blessed beyond comprehension. Before coming to the Lord, I was brought up in an Orthodox religion but that failed to do anything to stop my living a hopeless and depressed life clouded in mystery, not knowing anything. Questions like why do I die? Why do I live, why am I so depressed?  What happens when I die? Why can't I just end it all? Even though life was not the best I didn’t want to die etc etc all the usual questions. However, one day when I plainly spoke to the Lord (prayed) I just said things like "Lord please send your son to cleanse me. Lord, I need help. I am completely lost and haven't got a clue. Lord, I am pathetic and a dead dog without you, and many other such things, not long after I was filled with the spirit and spoke out in tongues. Upon receiving the Spirit all these questions and fears and doubts have left me. Now I am confident and confidently await the return of the Lord. I can remember how I was and how I am now. There is no way that I ever want to go back there again. And I have not one bad thing to say about the ministry of the Holy Ghost. Yes, things will happen, those will come that will try and lead disciples away, those will come that will try and cause division, many will come trying to chip away at the faith that I have received - these things are fact and are no surprise as they are all written about in the bible. Not because the word of God has failed but because many have tried to take the gift of God and turn it into another man made thing - it's doomed to failure. Didn't Paul say that with tears he warned them day and night that there will come those that try to lead others astray, that will not spare the flock? I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the ministry of the Holy Ghost. All you have to do is to repent, be baptised and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. From then on it is between you and the Lord but the Lord will want you to learn and grow and to take the example of Israel complaining and mumbling and grumbling against God and Moses in the wilderness and not to do the same but to be thankful.

Yes, I have seen many things happen and many come and go but through it all I can testify that the Lord has been true to his word and not one of the promises of his good word has failed. I have a life that is abundant and do not mind "dragging" my kids off to a meeting. I am reminded of a recent RCI meeting in Papua New Guinea where they do not have the luxury of air-conditioned cars...a brother walked for 5 days through the forest to attend a meeting and be with his brothers including those that flew up from Australia. Then, after a short stay it was again trekking for 5 days back to his village. You see, he knew what he had and 10 days of walking in the forest wasn't going to stop him from getting to a meeting. He did this willingly and without complaint.

I realise I must get to bed as it is 2:30am now and sleep will be scarce.

Thanks,

Vlad

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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:27/06/2008 1:51 AMCopy HTML

 Dear Vlad,
 
Nice post welcome to the site.

 I could hear myself saying many of the things you have written and so many of us went along with the same attitude because we sat in the masses just happily doing our thing week in week out.

Alot of the people that sign here have been hurt and betrayed, yes some posibly have been offended over silly things and leave but some also see a truth and for the Lords sake and their own salvation they deceide they must walk away.
They dont all fall away or lose there salvation because they leave RCI, Christ is so much bigger than the confines of RCI.
The Lord prepares many mansions if it were just RCI a small condo would be big enough _lol

When you witness first hand, scriptures being twisted and used inappropriatley, behind closed doors you see the
hypocritical abuse that some of the Head Pastors use in RCI to keep control and silence things they dont want the masses to find out there does come a time to separate and stand with the Lord. You can even 'appear' to have become their enemy because you speak the truth.
In all things we are to emulate Christ he is our measure and when you can stand before some of these men and do not see Christ in them, it is time to question why you put your self under their subjection.
Let God be true and every man a liar became very real.
Like many you may never experience the vileness of some of these men and  for the sake of you family I hope you never do. If you can happily serve the Lord with your family intact in Rci then do so.
But dont be too quick to beleive why people leave without asking them yourself. But that of course is not encouraged - ask yourself why?
A counterfiter makes a note to look as close to the real thing but under close examination faults can be seen.  But how closely do we look, no body goes looking for fault and who would beleive you anyway?
With a possition of power comes  great responcibility but when you have no one above you to whom you are answerable you become untouchable even arrogant.
 Old chinese saying "Fish rot from head".  RCI is slowly rotting all is not what it seems.
Scripture talks about a time when the people will be scattered and left with out a shepherd I beleive that time has begun.
As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:27/06/2008 9:50 AMCopy HTML

Hi Vlad,

You seem to have a great love for the God of the bible, and you seem to place great reliance on the bible as God's written word. Like you I have been kept apart from the worst of the abuses related (and experienced) by many/most of those who post here. Like you, great assurance of God's love for me came at the time of my "speaking in tongues" experience ministered through RCI.

In recent times, though, I have come to realise the link between tongues and the Holy Spirit, amongst other things preached in RCI and RF, is quite *un*scriptural. As this is foundational to their doctrine, the whole doctrinal structure is as a result unsound - a house built on sand, as it were.

Consider the following two points arising from your post.
 
1) You write, "I have 4 out of 6 kids that are filled with the Spirt and they didn't get it because they were forced to." Yet the scripture, particularly the NT describes the Spirit as a person - the third person of a triune God. Do you and your family relate to the Spirit as a Him, or just an impersonal force. Are you ministered to by the Holy Spirit or more often by tongues and the 'buzz' you get from it?


2) You refer to the experience of Cornelius' household with tongues as if it were somehow normative, yet Peter when relating the events to the church at Jerusalem in Acts chapter 11 doesn't just say, "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us." He actually says, "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning." Why would he say "at the beginning" if tongues were normative - happening all the time? Further, why did Luke, under God's inspiration, chose to record that phrase?

I could question a number of other assumptions you seem to have about tongues, such as what Paul was saying to the Corinthians about the relative significance of tongues and whether all Christians speak in tongues, but my prayer is that you and yours would start pondering the implications of the two points I mention.

My prayer is that you would seek to understand what the written word says, using all the tools available, illumined by the Holy Spirit and not just accept the RCI spin on what it says. My prayer is that you would seek to understand your experience in the light of God's word, rather than interpret God's word in the light of your experience.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:28/06/2008 12:06 AMCopy HTML

Good morning, Talmid.

I couldn't have put things better, myself.

God bless,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Uncoolman Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 12:17 PMCopy HTML

Good on you Vlad, I could not have said any of it better myself. The point is, it's your attitude that counts. If you treasure what the Lord has given you, you will not hesitate to make it a priority in your life. If you are in the process of forgetting who you are, then these things will seem like inconveniences. 
To Outa Egypt I'd just like to say, we all have to walk an overcomers walk. If someone in the church did something that was not right, because they themselves weren't walking in the spirit, it is not the Lord's fault. You don't walk out on sound doctrine and the truth because someone has aggrieved you, whether very seriously or not. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush, where there are people there are problems. Just because one particular person was not doing that which is right, that does not mean that the majority of the other people in the assembly aren't doing the right thing, and walking in the spirit, behaving themselves. I know someone whose husband was in the assembly despite doing the wrong thing, for many years, and it wasn't handled as it should have been, however, she is still coming along, rejoicing, because she realizes this is all bigger than a few people, she has overcome. Revival Centres International has outstanding doctrine, and nowhere else will you be more encouraged to do the right thing in your walk. They will tell you what you need to hear, not always what you want to hear, and at the end of the day, your desire to do what is right come-what-may (we are all responsible for our own actions) will determine whether or not you make it with the Lord. Will you walk in the spirit, or in the flesh? And if you do not sow to the spirit, you will reap corruption. I haven't read much on this website, but it is not hard to see that there are many people on here who are bitter and hard-hearted towards the Lord. That is sad. 
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 1:19 PMCopy HTML

Hi, 'WR'.

So you honestly believe the RCI's 'doctrine' is outstanding, huh? Okay, but doesn't the fact that it isn't biblical worry you a little? That what the RCI preaches isn't
what the Bible teaches? In fact, that what the RCI teaches actually contradicts what the Bible very clearly presents?

I'd suggest that if such doesn't worry you, it should.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 1:37 PMCopy HTML

Hi WR, you might want to start reading at Rci pastor has been uncovered to get a better understanding of things and for what is really happening in the organisation that you hold true to.

The rot and disease has come from the senior oversight in the support of those doing wrong, including the disgraceful way that they have treated those who need caring the most. 
Your right in the fact that you don't judge the majority by the minority but when the senior leaders are at fault, it is then that one needs to re-evaluate their stand on things. Just have a good read, keep an open mind, look at the newspaper reports, then pray, and seek the lord for direction. If your at BoxHill ask your self this, why is there so much turmoil there, why are so many folk leaving ??? Is there something going on that you're not aware off ??? 

Yours in christ Im_out

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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 1:39 PMCopy HTML

Hello Ian
Actually RCI doctrine preaches and teaches exactly what the bible does, without contradiction, following both what the bible says and what it presents by example. I can only assume that you do not share this view because you have never looked into what RCI does preach. 
Please do not assume that I am naive, I do my homework. The word exhorts us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and I exhort you to take this biblical advice, as well as not leaning to your own understanding (another nice bit of biblical advice).
Wishing you all the full understanding that only the infilling of the holy spirit and sincerity and love of the truth can give,
WR
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 1:50 PMCopy HTML

Hello I'm out
Do you go to Box Hill yourself to observe the turmoil and such? I have read these things you refer to, and I have made up my mind and it is very much as I said in my previous to last post. All I know is that if someone made me such a financial proposition as he is alleged to have, I would not have done it, I am not attracted to high risk financial investments, and abuses of trust regarding money can be found not only in churches but in businesses and other places, amongst friends, without reference to God. 

I think it is unfair of anyone to point the finger wholly at one party or another without being in possession of all the facts, and that includes your vilifying of the senior oversight. Were you involved in this situation? Have you witnessed the 'rot' firsthand, and if so what is this 'rot' you speak of?

It seems to me that some people like to find any reason to speak evil of people they do not like, without considering all the facts, or being in possession of an open mind themselves. Jesus said that if someone was to strike you on the cheek, to turn to him the other also. Also to love your enemies, and to good to them that hate you. Do you practice these attitudes yourself?

'Till later.

WR
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 3:38 PMCopy HTML



WR, mate, it seems you have swallowed Lloyd's nonsense hook, line & sinker!

You raised in the RCI or what?  I know that from your perspective, what you are saying must seem all so reasonable and logical.  But really, you have NO IDEA how twisted and absurd the RCI doctrine actually is!

Get into 'PLEASE CONSIDER'.  Take your time there if you think your beliefs are biblical.  Try doing it objectively instead of with RCI glasses on.  You are in for a rude awakening man!


Dog.
"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 10:59 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, WR.

Actually RCI doctrine preaches and teaches exactly what the bible does, without contradiction, following both what the bible says and what it presents by example. No, it doesn't. I can only assume that you do not share this view because you have never looked into what RCI does preach. Wrong again. Please do not assume that I am naive, I do my homework. Apparently not very well.

The word exhorts us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and I exhort you to take this biblical advice, as well as not leaning to your own understanding (another nice bit of biblical advice). To begin with, that passage from Philippians doesn't mean what you think it does. Next, please try to comprehend that I base my understanding of matters on what Scripture actually teaches, and then fully with "fear and trembling".

Wishing you all the full understanding that only the infilling of the holy spirit and sincerity and love of the truth can give. And I appreciate it. But I do wonder that the Holy Spirit infilling me has led me to a completely different 'truth' to you.  Perhaps, then, there's more to all of this Bible interpretation stuff than simply being 'Spirit-filled'?

Now remember that word you used before? Naive?

Blesisngs,

Ian


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Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #13
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:07/05/2009 11:10 PMCopy HTML

Hi WR

It's good that you do your homework. I know I did and that's why I joined RCI/RF and preached their "sound doctrine" for around 30 years.

Interestingly, I stepped up the standard of my homework a notch (by the grace of God) and found that a number basic attitudes and presuppositions I brought to the task had led me awry. For example, I found that the "salvation message" was about 180 degrees removed from " ... preach[ing] and teach[ing] exactly what the bible does, without contradiction, following both what the bible says and what it presents by example ..." A key error was not understanding what verses from the bible meant in their context. Eg have a think about point 2) in my above post of 27/6/2008.

Sure there are people here who are bitter and would no longer refer to themselves as Christian. Personally, I'm not bitter, I left because the salvation message was/is "another gospel", and I confess Jesus as Lord and saviour. I'd suggest, as mentioned above, that you challenge yourself to come to grips with the material at pleaseconsider.info since that looks at RCI/RF doctrine purely from the perspective of understanding what the bible is *really* saying, without the personality issues that are part of this site.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 12:12 AMCopy HTML

 WR,  your posts are sad.. you are simply regurgitating the dogmatic garbage you have been taught by the ill-informed and unqualified leaders of your cult. How about doing some thinking of your own. Reading the unreliable text that is the KJV bible and listening to tapes of the despotic Lloyd Longfield does not constitute "homework" it is simply a type of reaffirmation of your flawed platform of beliefs.

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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 3:04 AMCopy HTML

Hello to everybody who has posted a reply to my last post.  No, I was not bought up in RCI. Rather than me being the one that has been conned, it is you. You have allowed lukewarm attitudes to permeate your thinking, and you now believe a lie because you have not received a love of the truth. Far from regurgitating anything, 'Noob' I have come to these conclusions myself. You are all in error to assume that I am simply indoctrinated. You should be so lucky! I am extremely fortunate to have the truth, and to treasure it, whereas you seem happy to cast it aside, on an interpretation of the scriptures that suits what you would like to believe, rather than what is the truth (they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears). But you do it willingly, so nothing I can say to you will change that. I never expected it to. It is interesting to see you all come out with the same kinds of comments, and make all sorts of assumptions about who and what I am, none of them right. How could any of you know what kind of homework I have done? I have noticed though, that those that leave RCI often claim to have some better vision or understanding than we do.  To Ian, you trot out the typical line, that you have some other understanding of the truth, better of course, than I do. Well, there is no private interpretation of the scriptures, and that is exactly what you appear by your answers to be indulging in. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. And one gospel. It is either the truth, or it isn't. Not lots of different ones. You have forgotten that these churches that 'preach' their own 'gospels', such as give you heart to the Lord or whatever, rob people of the opportunity to really know God by telling them that they are right with God when they are not. Seeing as blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, you would do well not to make yourselves guilty of this. RCI have always said that we are not the only ones, but that there is only one way. That is entirely scriptural! There are not different ways to be saved. But then, I imagine you won't like me saying that either! But there you go. Herein endeth the discussion, can't see it going anywhere productive.
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 3:30 AMCopy HTML

 Hi WhiteRainment,

I like it how you ended your post with a little KJV english ;) (Herein endeth the discussion) It gives it that extra touch of authority, kind of reminiscent of the "spiritual gifts".

I prophecieth to thee that thouest revival gospel ist surely lacking in truthfullness, and verily contains a superfluity of naughtiness!

But, in all seriousness, it would be really helpful for you, if you postpone judgement a bit and have a chat with a few people on this forum. You might find that some of their 'opinions' are weightier than you think. Many here have an extensive knowledge of RCI doctrine.

Regards,
SinTaxError


Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #17
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 4:03 AMCopy HTML

Now WR,

Where did I assume that you were "brought up in RCI"? You might like to re-read my second sentence.

Of course you came to your conclusions yourself. The issue is what was the basis of your conclusions, and how they were drawn. If you say that the bible is at the heart of your beliefs and you believe the RCI salvation message, then you are not reading those words with the same care that should be applied to any book, let alone using the care that God's word requires. As I said, I was in that position for 30 years ... and I had post-graduate qualifications and an above average IQ and level of reading comprehension.

Let me give you an example of the blinkers you're wearing. You say that scripture is "not of private interpretation". Yet the RCI "salvation message" differs from what was and is believed by the vast majority of Christians down through history - including those who speak in tongues - ie that one enters into the new covenant when one confesses Jesus as Lord and saviour.  Which interpretation is private, yours or theirs?

I'll say it again. The RCI "salvation message" is *not* biblical. Again I challenge you to (payerfully) engage with the essays at pleaseconsider.info. 

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 5:59 AMCopy HTML

Apologies Talmid, the reference to 'brought up in RCI' was raised by 'dogmafree'. My reply was directed at all those who replied to my post. The assertion that I should follow a gospel just because it "is believed by the vast majority of Christians down through history - including those who speak in tongues"  is an unscriptural action. Acts 28:22' But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.' Those who have contended for the faith both in the old and new testament, and since Christ, have undergone significant persecutions, not wide-ranging acceptance. You are quite wrong to assume that I do not read the words of the bible with care (II Cor 4:2 'But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.'), and with all due respect, post-grad qualifications, and above average IQ and level of reading comprehension have very little to do with understanding the word of God. (I Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:').  The salvation message of RCI is utterly biblical, both in word and example. As for postponing judgement until I am in possession of all the facts (which I am and I remain unconvinced by your standpoints), concerning all things the bible tells me to not judge by appearance, but to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24), and that by their fruits I shall know them (Matthew 7:18), a good tree cannot bring for the evil fruit, nor an evil tree good fruit. Regarding blinkers, the scripture also states Matthew 7:13&14 'Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.'. That tells me one of two things, it is a narrow and constrained way (blinkers???), and there aren't many that would find it. Then I should be on my guard if it is a gospel that lots of Christians (even if they do speak in tongues) have done and do follow.  Horses have blinkers on to keep them on the right path, a good thing I would have thought. We all come under a master, it is either God, or sin and death.  I Corinthians 13:1 'Though I speak with the tongues of men and angles, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.'  This charity is not just the love for fellow man, but as Jesus said, if you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15). Sadly there are people who speak in tongues who are not saved. If my memory serves me right, something about weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:51 'And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth'). With reference to your many years of experience, John 3:10 'Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?' You might recognize this verse as coming just after Jesus emphasized to Nicodemus 'Ye must be born of the water and of the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God'. Apologies for repeating myself, but herein endeth this discussion, and yes, isn't Shakespearean english wonderful. Expressive and poetic. You cannot convince me away from the truth, just as I cannot convince you to contend for it.

Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #19
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:08/05/2009 7:41 AMCopy HTML

WR

** sigh **

You've played fast-and-loose with my words just as the RCI "salvation message" does with the words of the bible, eg I wrote that my use of comprehension skills led me to *accept* RCI doctrine, but I can't be bothered pointing out anything else. (It was a great lesson in humility to have to admit that I had been wrong!) 

I know you think you've read the bible with care; so did I. If you actually *do* read them with care you'll see (amongst other things) that Paul explicitly writes that not all Christians speak in tongues, Mark 16 describes characteristics of Christians *as a group* not individuals, and that the Acts narrative supports those explicit teachings. These alone say, "RCI salvation message - wrong in both word and example."

If you want to quote scripture, maybe you should consider the teachings about those "with a hoary head" and bear in mind the one about prophesying in Jesus' name but not being known by him. Then there's the one about beams and splinters. ;-)

Finally, I'm not trying to convince you, so much as prompt you to put yourself in a metaphorical place where you hear the Spirit.

 

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #20
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:09/05/2009 6:32 AMCopy HTML

Good afternoon, WR.

Well here's the thing: if the RCI's doctrine/'salvation message' is as biblically sound as you'd have us to believe, then surely you would be able to conclusively rebut all of the significant problems that I've pointed out concerning it in my various essays as www.pleaseconsider.info, and in my 40-odd page summary essay on Acts (a copy of which appears at this site). Given the thoroughness and comprehensiveness with which I've both addressed and disproved your beliefs, you simply stating that you're correct, and that the likes of me have matters wrong, somehow just doesn't strike me as being sufficient to prove your position.

So I'd extend to you a challenge. Do you believe yourself capable of doing what no RCI or RF pastor has been able to do thus far? Can you point out any errors in my exegetical work, such as will render my conclusions invalid? I warmly welcome and invite you to try. Please.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:11/05/2009 6:05 AMCopy HTML

Questions for White Rainment:

In the course of your scriptural studies have you encountered Mathew Chpater 25 verses 31 onwards?

What do you think that they mean?

Have you ever heard any RCI Pastors preach on these verses?

Do you believe that RCI runs any social programmes based on these verses?

Mole

  1. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32.  And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33.  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34.  Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35.  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36.  Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37.  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38.  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39.  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40.  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41.  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42.  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43.  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44.  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45.  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #22
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:13/05/2009 1:38 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Mole.

Don't bust a blood vessel waiting for 'WR' to respond, as I don't think she's too interested in hearing too much in the way of biblical material that contradicts her beliefs.

To WR: as an aside I believe the word that you were after is 'raiment' (as in archaic English for 'clothing'). Where did the 'n' come from?

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:10/03/2011 5:17 PMCopy HTML

Reply to MothandRust

Revival Churches are anti-family...

1, 2 or 3 pm starting times are popular with Revival. Usually that means lunch has to be rushed and the kids showered and well dressed in the middle of a hot day. Everyone is stressed but putting on a strained grin for a chance to sit with 'the Saints' during another Sunday of rituals and tradition (Singsong, testimony, sermon, communion, gifts = rituals) and try dang hard not to fall asleep on a lazy Sunday afternoon.


A truly painful memory.

In another thread a guest wrote about a couple yelling at each other before and on the way to meetings. They were probably suffering stress.  It could be given the title of 'pre meeting tension' which I consider to be a very real complaint, affecting more than were prepared to admit to it; something I discovered years later when people began to open up and talk about the pressure they felt getting to all the meetings. 

Those 3pm Sunday meetings were awful.  Moth's post (1#) said it very well, the RCI with their late start and late finish on Sundays were not family friendly at all.

For a long time after joining RCI I thought the pre meeting tension we experienced was confined to our household only.  Others seemed to relish the meetings, couldn't get enough and eagerly looked forward to the next one, so they said, while I dreaded them and they came around so quickly.   Wondering how we could continue the requirement to be at every meeting (plus the worry of Young Peoples' 'compulsory' Saturday nights for a young teen) I spoke to a houseleader, who took it to an oversight, who quite possibly discussed our 'case' when leaders gathered to inform each other of problems which arise.  The advice I received was to be steadfast, pray about it and that 'Old Nick' was having a go at us.

The pre Sunday meeting atmosphere in our household was calm, but a contrived, unnatural, forced calm. Tension lay below the surface.  We spoke slowly and deliberately while getting ready, packing food for the between meeting dinner, sleeping bags packed for creche etc.  From the moment we awoke Sundays were geared toward getting ourselves to the meeting. No longer were we able, as before, to choose from a selection of service times giving us opportunity for family gatherings and outings.  Family had become 'the saints', family times were meeting times, fellowship times and whatever else was on as long as it was of Revival.  Sometimes there were whole weekends/long weekends devoted to assembly activities, announced from the notices after every meeting, with the expectation of full participation. 

Those late finishes on Sunday and Wednesday nights placed a lot of stress on families.  For families still in the groups I hope your leadership shows more consideration now than they used to. 

Epi

 

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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:11/03/2011 12:51 AMCopy HTML

Hi all,

Reading this post makes me cringe, as if spiders are crawling up my shirt and multiplying by the hundreds.

Unfortunately, i to put my young family through this type of stress/torture and through no fault of their own. Looking back now, i can't believe i wasted Sunday after 'bloody 'Sunday listening to the RCI rubbish that was peddled from the pulpit. 
I remember the Saturday night stress attacks i would have about going to the meeting on Sunday, wondering if there was an out for me(was a family member or friend having a picnic or something i could go to?) The amount of lies i told me wife makes me sad also, i used to say i had to work every third Sunday when in fact i just couldn't stomach RCI.........I would just go and sit at a cafe by myself for hours on end.

Thankfully i saw the 'light' quite a few years ago now, and sometimes i can really have a good laugh about it all.............other times i cringe!

DM




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Re:Church times aren't family friendly

Date Posted:21/03/2011 5:50 AMCopy HTML

 Box Hill in 2011 now has only one meeting that finishes about 3PM.

So if you miss the "öptional" choruses and arrive at 1.29PM you can be in and out in about ninety minutes.

Now if Simon had the sense to start the show at 11.00AM the punters could have the whole afternoon to do family stuff!

Mole
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