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Date Posted:30/06/2010 12:54 PMCopy HTML

Hi everyone! I've tried to sign up, but the 'submit' key isn't working (or I'm doing something wrong). I'll use the 'guest' option and have my nickname at the end. I'm Faithful Shadow. I go to RCI, and secretly to another church also. I love what I get from both. I choose to seek the Lord through these avenues, plus my own individual prayer and meditation. I don't get too involved in church things. I am very private. The other church has passion for Jesus! RCI has my friends and family that I love. I am so frustrated at how RCI blocks people who are seeking the Lord. I am so angry at how the oversight have hurt so many of you. The Lord loves all of us. Why is it that RCI has this attitude of exclusivity? Churches should be open to all people freely and cater for many needs and interests. Why can't Christians just come together, respect each others' differences and appreciate what we as individuals have to give? Why can't RCI embrace this? Maybe this is just 'idealism', but it is how I feel. I would love to hear your thoughts on this! God Bless.Faithful Shadow 
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:30/06/2010 2:17 PMCopy HTML

 Hi, try using a different web browser if the submit key doesn't work. Aimoo can be a bit buggy.

I don't think they will change. In fact, the RevivalC.I. prides themselves on the 'idea' that they are set up the same way they believe the 'church' was when it began 2000 years ago, so they certainly don't want to do anything differently to the way they already think. When they 'did' change in 1995, it wasn't for the better. 

Why do they have exclusivity and superiority issues? It's because they believe incorrectly that 'speaking in tongues' is the be and end all, and that they've cornered the market it miracles, signs and wonders. They haven't. A discerning browse through conversations (such as this one) will show you the flaws in their salvation criteria. You've seen that there are other organisations out there that have sincere people who don't believe in the legality that Revival Churches 'need' to regulate themselves with. The preach 'Unity', but it's actually an enforced 'Conformity'.

Unfortunately, family and friends are tied into the whole shebang and it's difficult to leave them, even when you know there are better places to be. 

They won't change, and they don't want to. NO compromise. NO 'backsliding'. NO other 'winds' of doctrines. They've convinced themselves that they are the keepers of the only real truth, and although they admit there 'may' be other 'spirit-filled' people in other churches, they're just luke-warm and vile compared to their own unique brand of scriptural interpretation. Forget Jesus... RCI have 'The Lord'.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:30/06/2010 10:19 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Moth and Rust.
You could remove RCI in your post and replace it with GRC and it would be just as true. They cant both be right. Of course both are as wrong as each other and although they hate each other are the same false doctrines but with different dictators and followers.
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:01/07/2010 7:56 AMCopy HTML

Yes, people always talk about The Lord (who of course is brilliant) but Jesus is a name I rarely hear from them. 

What.. Rarely hear??
I'm not sure I understand how you rarely hear it? That hasn't been my experience.
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:01/07/2010 2:10 PMCopy HTML

  Browsers?

Can't beat Firefox, imo... Chrome is good to keep handy too.

Most people are genuine no matter what their beliefs. Everyone seemed very genuine, including myself, during my 17 years in Revival. Pastors seemed to genuinely believe in all things Revival... 'house-leaders' were genuine. Doubts creep in, especially when we'd compare our little Revival hall churches to what was happening in the wider world of Christendom around us. People in other churches are genuine about their 'Jesus' too. JWs I know are genuine. Most people in any belief system seem to be genuine. It's a funny thing to be genuine, and it's relative.

In the continuum of Revival cultiness, the GRC is a heck of a lot closer to the nasty end of the stick. The Christian Assemblies International, then the RCIs, and then RFs. Birds of a feather in the main, but some are definitely more controlling and legalistic than others. The 'tongues' agenda ties Revival churches together, and the result is an archaic community that shies away from the thriving life that passes by them. The Revivalists (and the United Pentecostals) have to keep the 'superiority' complex going with all members to stop them from checking out what's going on at the other churches down the road. It's hard to get proper perspective of it when you're actually conditioned into it, but you must be sensing something while you're visiting more mainstream churches.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
prezy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:02/07/2010 12:47 AMCopy HTML

Reply to becoming aware.
James 2:17 Even so faith have it not works, is dead being alone.
I recommend reading all of ch 2.
The reason maintsream churches help their community is because the Bible tells us to, and as a Christian it should be a natural response.
I think the revs twist this as another way of seperating themselves, and as "saved" people we should be seperate, but better not worse than everyone else. Good on you for seeing truth and goodness and wanting to not expose your children to harmfull programing.
¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:02/07/2010 5:40 AMCopy HTML

Following Prezy's post

James 2 (NIV)

  14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Then I refer you to Matthew 25:31-41 which says that if you have not fed the hungry ,clothed the naked, visited the sick and in prison you are not going to get a guernsey for the kingdom of the Lord.

And that is what The Salvos, St Vincent de Paul Society etc are all about.

Mole
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:02/07/2010 10:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to becoming aware:
Certainly Jesus spoke in parables, but the wording in James is too specific to reasonably regarded as a parable.

¡uıɐƃɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ƃuıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:02/07/2010 10:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to prezy

Reply to becoming aware:
Certainly Jesus spoke in parables, but the wording in James is too specific to reasonably regarded as a parable.


...and the words in James are not attributed to Jesus.
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 2:28 AMCopy HTML

 RCI will never change, as do not want to change.

My belief is that RCI,GRC will never change, they will continue until there's 3 people left. They will call it the last Days, the great falling away etc,etc.........
Why will they change if they genuinely  believe they are doing the 'right thing' and preaching the correct doctrine?

How many people there(RCI) have i heard in the last 5 years saying' The lord has to do something, we will stick around until the Lord prevails'.....NEWS FLASH PEOPLE, the Lord isn't involved in your Cult, nor is he going to bail you out. Take responsibility for your self and those around you and vote with your feet. I look back on my time in RCI(30yrs worth) with a feeling of shame, as by being  member you are condoning the behavior of this place...........Once you leave, it will hit you like a ton of bricks as to how silly the whole thing is and to how gullible you have been.

Jesus left the building years ago, i think its time to follow.

DM
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 2:38 AMCopy HTML

,

"They do turn their backs on 'backsliders', but why? Because they have been taught to! It's not their fault! They honestly believe that this is the correct Christian approach. Separatism."

I like that Guest, and really get that, we left over 4 years ago and as you see from my previous posts the Lord has directed my self and our family wonderfully.
After the split of 95, I did exactly as you said, I totally snubbed of, felt awkward around, avoided all my friends who had left, I walked on the opposite side of the road when seeing them, Giving them that faint pleasant smile while thinking "Oh" God not those backsliders, and remembering that Ill gotton phrase of "Those that went out from US were not of US".  Which now when you realise that the body of Christ is all Christians, not just a "select few in a particular organisation" now means those that "were" walking in Christ and who now act like the "Dog that returns to its vomit" Phrase that they also use, as those who infact do turn their back on God totally and go back to their old ways, i.e. Drugs, free Sex, getting drunk every night etc etc, NOT someone who has just come to there senses and who has freed them self from the legalistic authoritarianism, proud a
nd dogmatic control that the Wolves have over them.  I say wolves because no Shepard would let a member rip other members off for 60 Million .

We now have experienced exactly the same from folk who are still in, and you know I don't hold anything what-so-ever against them, because I did exactly the same, simply because that is what we were taught to do. NOW I know differently, so NOW I act differently.


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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 3:17 AMCopy HTML

DM - I understand. And when I am there, I act like the perfect revivalist. I don't want to condone it's ways, but I'm so stuck. It's not so much the friends, but my family that I don't want to disappoint. And the worst part is, if I go, it's not what they think of me but how they (my family) will torture themselves thinking about how I will burn. That is my biggest guilt and fear.

I'm Out - absolutely. No shepard would allow someone to rip off the people 60 million. That is a complete atrocity. The biggest eye opener for me by far.
 
EV - I will never confide in anyone at RCI again. It's way too risky. Thanks for that information.

How can the big guns in RCI not see that their 'policies' are completely contradictory to the teachings of Jesus? We must forgive each other when we make mistakes. We all make mistakes, and it's how we learn. I could go on about this forever, but I would just be going in circles. Enjoy the day, the Lord has made it for us!

Faithful Shadow
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 3:30 AMCopy HTML

I've really appreciated your honesty. It's rare to hear RCI members talk as frankly as you have. You're certainly not alone, and there will be others around who will appreciate and relate to what you're saying.

Has the 'hell fire' doctrine changed in Revival. We always used to teach that hell was a second death that lead to a cease in being. Do they now believe that people will burn for eternity, or do they leave it up to members' imaginations.?

It took me a long time to leave Revival too because of the 'disappointment' I knew everyone would have in me when I left. I knew how I felt about people (backsliders) who left 'The Lord'. At some point in life you need to forget about what other people think of you and do the 'right thing'. 

"there will be a time when we must choose what is easy and what is right."
Albus Dumbledore
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 4:12 AMCopy HTML

FS..
As Moth stated your honesty is refreshing.

I fully understand your predicament though, you sound like me 6yrs ago.

FWIW my parents and most of my family still attend RCI. If you quiz them as to why, it is  much the same answer as you give............And dude, they're 60yrs old! The point is, it doesn't get any easier to leave the longer you stay there, it will get harder.

You cant control what others think about you.....control the controllable and live you life.

Put on your fire-proof jacket and walk, i promise you its worth the month or two of parental disappointment.










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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 4:23 AMCopy HTML

DrMont said
"RCI will never change, as do not want to change.

My belief is that RCI,GRC will never change, they will continue until there's 3 people left. They will call it the last Days, the great falling away etc,etc.........

Why will they change if they genuinely believe they are doing the 'right thing' and preaching the correct doctrine?"


You have got that totally right, I mean if Simon Longfield or Victor S, including all of the Pastors involved cannot see that they have acted inappropriately in the handling of the Glenn Duker fiasco in victimizing the victims and supporting the perpetrators. With so much guidance that the scriptures offer when dealing with such issues is not adhered to and ignored then "WHAT HOPE IS THERE" for that organization.


When folk leave they will just see it as "part of the great falling away".  Falling away from what!!! an organization???? What nonsense.

DrMont you said "Once you leave, it will hit you like a ton of bricks as to how silly the whole thing is and to how gullible you have been"

I get that, My family and I have gone through many light bulb changing moments since leaving, One example being, At an AOG I was fellowshipping, I was telling a brother (also ex-rci) that we wanted to visit another church, that was not part of the AOGs. As we began to talk about this he was a bit louder than me and spoke openly. I quickly took the conversation to another room and told him to lower his voice for fear of being told off for visiting another church. He then replied "Relax, your free now, your allowed to visit other places its OK". At that moment I just stopped a light bulb came on in my mind and a weight was lifted from me,  as I DID NOT realize up till then  how much CONTROL the RCI oversight had had over us. And you're right MM I often wonder how on earth did I allow myself to get misled so badly.  We have had many moments like that since. We  went through 4 years of untangling our minds (thanks to brother Keith Moore and his Ministry in the US and the other churches we visited) until we finally decided what we were looking for, and when we did, "we stopped and prayed then the Lord graciously led us to it.



There is life after RCI. "There not as big in church world as they make out"



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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:03/07/2010 4:46 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest 


 
EV - I will never confide in anyone at RCI again. It's way too risky. Thanks for that information.


Faithful Shadow


Faithful Shadow,

A very wise decision indeed, although I think perhaps deep down you already knew this. 

To all those current Revivalists not aware of the lack of confidentiality, you have a right to ask where details of the problems you are about to discuss will be taken and who else is going to be privy to your personal details. 

It has always been the nature of the system in RCI/RF to bring everything to the attention of the pastor/s.

Can't speak for GRC but I'm sure they work in a similar way.  It would be interesting to hear from some GRC members/ex members.

Blessings.

Epi

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:08/07/2010 12:37 AMCopy HTML

I feel I'm being ungrateful to talk about the facade of love that RCI members display, when I've experienced so much practical help from my friends in my time, sometimes just a hug and a kind word has helped so much. But it's knowing that the love would turn off like a tap if I left that grieves me, and knowing that I was just that sort of friend in the past that hurts even more. How many people I must have offended in my time. How quickly I forgot most of them when they went. So what's worse, to leave and grieve your friends, or to leave and have them forget you within weeks?



This is one of the main reasons I got kicked out. My friends are my friends and I will love them and visit them whenever I damn well please whether they are "in fellowship" or not.

I could never reconcile in my own mind belonging to god, and at the same time treating the people I love like shit because some moron in a suit with no idea how to be a decent human being tells me to. Thank God I am such a defiant little cow.
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:09/07/2010 7:29 AMCopy HTML

I don't think RCI will change this:
In our experience of leaving and confronting new thoughts, this may help some.

One major thing we, and number of others that left together were confronted with was the role of our ladies in the church.

Question: Should they be chauvinistically put down and relegated to the minor duties in the church such as washing of the communion cups and cleaning up after us blokes or

Can a women in-fact hold a position in the church, in 

  • Preaching
  • Assisting a Pastor,
  • Including holding the role of Pastor and assistant Pastor
  • Young Peoples Pastor
  • Leading the chorus session,
  • Say thanks for the offering,
  • Leading the communion service.

 RCI does allow our ladies to operate the spiritual gifts, therefore if God sees fit to speak through our ladies to guide us all, including the chauvinistic rule makers of the organization, then how else does God see fit to use our Wife’s, Sisters and Mothers for? any  of the above ?

 

We found Monica Dennington from TicToc ministries on the Web and she answers these questions very well, and most defiantly convinced a few others and myself that there was more to it then previously presented. Check out Monica’s talk on (this is your first challenge men) J

Should Women Teach? ... The Final Word

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e988cBOC5Yw

 

This really did help, I’m sure there is a lot of info on this, but this talk is personally what set us in the right direction, and she was pretty clear to understand.

 

The other big big revelation was, that the Holy spirit could actually speak to us and guide us in a very real tangible way, a way I have never encountered in all of 30 Plus years in RCI.  The late Kenneth Hagin covers all this in easy to understand detail in his book “How You Can Be Led By The Spirit of God “ This can still be ordered up at most Christian book shops.

 

I’m not trying to flog these folk, or any others I have mentioned in any of my other posts or push them or any of “my” ideas, but with so many sincere folk coming on here seeking answers I thought Id share a few of our resources that assisted us in our walk.When we left we felt we were being dragged through a thorn bush backwards, with our everything being turned upside down. They are just folk that have been a great help in opening our eyes that’s all. It’s a journey, and we are so thankful of those that helped us in past times.

 

Im_out

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:12/07/2010 11:13 PMCopy HTML

Hi Shadow, Kids "leaving the church is leaving the body of Christ" going back to the old ways we all came out of and not returning, and even if they do they can return if their repentant, what RCI fail to see is that the "Body of Christ" does not just revolve around "THEM" or any "particular organization" for that matter, it is all believing folk in all areas, including the "out of church Christians" who are those that have become so disillusioned and hurt by the whole church thing, they opt out of the whole system altogether. We did that for two months, but we had put our partitions to the Lord for a place good enough for our kids that was away from the fluffiness and watered down gospel of other places out there. We prayed, we watched our favorite preacher on DVD, and we waited. Two months later the Lord saw our faithfulness and led us to where we are now, and low and behold another two months later both kids receive. There’s many folk in RCI doing what your doing, there are many folk who's minds are being opened, by listening to "non approved DVDs & daring to go to the Christian book shop and taking a peak at other non approved reading material.  You really are not alone at all in this. 

Try asking folk leading questions in your church, like for instance have you heard of this web site, gauge there reaction, approach cautiously some will either put there rci hands up and be against all things non rci, while others will say otherwise and will let you in a bit. One bit at a time, trust occurs, gradual openness about things takes place. That’s how our eyes were opened when folk approached us; we welcomed their thoughts, and then found other like-minded folk within the system. Then we all left “LOL” and all have never been happier. :)

 

Ps, goto    www.aimoo.com
as Uncoolman has said, you need to create login, there first with a User name, and Password,
Then you can create a log in on this forum, you can use the same details



Im_Out
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:13/07/2010 4:45 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest

FS, God is working out your journey and it does not matter what happens as all things turn out well.


Look you guys seem really lovely, and I don't want to burst your bubble (not that I could really if you are still committed Christians), but in what alternative reality do things always turn out well?
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:13/07/2010 8:07 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien

Reply to Guest

FS, God is working out your journey and it does not matter what happens as all things turn out well.


Look you guys seem really lovely, and I don't want to burst your bubble (not that I could really if you are still committed Christians), but in what alternative reality do things always turn out well?


Hi Galien, I thoroughly do emphasize with you, having read all your posts over time, and totally get why you don’t attend anywhere, we were there for a while but because of the kids, and as most folk do you live for your children, we couldn’t afford to give up.

I guess with us we got into, and valued Keith Moore and the late Kenneth Hagans ministry, this opened the door to our minds and made us realize there was a lot more out there that we were not being told. Which is why we left Revival, along with our dismay at the Glenn Duker scandal. We never gave up believing that things would go right,  We got into the word, Prayed, Asked, Sort, spoke to the Holy spririt and believed for direction and it has happened.
I still hold true, to the importance of the Holy Spirit and the ability to communicate with him and value his guidance. We have just not given up believing that things would be right.

Brother Moore speaks on this and has for down load the “Thanksgiving Victory series” (all free of charge). This impacted us big time, he reminded us that when you ask for something, immediately thank him afterwards, that’s when things happen, thanking God for receiving even though you have not yet received, that’s faith believing.

1Corth15v57 But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our lord Jesus Christ
2Corth 2v14 But thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ and makes manifest through us the savor of his knowledge in every place and finally

Mark11:24 Therefore I say to you all things whatsoever you shall pray and ask for, BELIEVE that you have received them (my reference to thanking God after you have asked), and ye shall have them. This has really helped us and others I know. Apply it, and really believe it,  See what you think. Just don’t give up that’s all, and I guess that's why we are living in this alternative reality *grin*  (I loved that bit).   J

 

Im_Out

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:13/07/2010 10:19 AMCopy HTML

Thanks for the website, but still when I click on 'submit' nothing happens. I appreciate the help! I especially appreciate everything you all have said. I must admit, I like living in the alternative reality too! I feel so free of fear when I connect with my guide and protector. I am very patient for the Lord's answers being revealed in time. He has never failed me, not once. I guess it's the panic of my mind/RCI teachings that I'm questioning whether my thoughts are spiritual or not - if I am being led by the Lord or my 'natural' mind, that is.  Anyway, I'll remain patient and keep on praying and meditating. Maybe take a few Sundays off for just that. I respect all beliefs. In life, we all have the right to believe what feels strong in our hearts. Maybe that last sentence I just typed freely is the answer I was looking for! It's just getting past my fear of punishment before I actually embrace it.

F. Shadow
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:13/07/2010 10:58 AMCopy HTML

Hi FS

I've read with interest your posts.

Can I suggest that as you consider your future with RCI you click on the www.pleaseconsider.info icon below, pray and ponder the essays there? (The essays have also been archived here, thanks to the efforts of Uncoolman.) They were crucial in my path away from 30-odd years with RCI then RF. Frankly, I believe that the RCI/RF "salvation message" is what Paul would have called "another gospel", and simply unbiblical.

When I gained clarity on the errors of "the salvation message" I was able with help to startt a path into the wonders of biblical Xianity. I truly found myself no longer a blind man living in a roadside culvert. The subjective experience of Christ combined with the objective revelation of Scripture is a great combination.

The book "How to read the bible for all its worth" by Fee and Stuart would also be a great help in guiding you to a sound way of looking at the teaching that various churches present as being biblical.
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:13/07/2010 12:23 PMCopy HTML

Hi Faithful Shadow,

My exit from many years in RCI/RF was similar to that of Talmid regarding the "salvation message" being unbiblical.  It really is"another gospel" than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The doubts that I had which made me believe that what was preached in Revival was indeed wrong weighted heavily for a very long time before I left.  I kept thinking that I must wait to be lead by the Spirit.  I was unable to make an informed decision with the evidence that the Spirit had already put before me.  Conveniently preferring to await a dramatic sign, until it became a complete cop-out. 

For a very long time I understood that how RCI and RF used speaking in tongues as proof of salvation was wrong.  That our salvation should hinge on the proof of a few syllables off the repetition of sped up halullujahs is such a flimsy salvation and open to abuse. Tongues also becomes the main focus.  They openly object to others who believe in the Christ's atoning love for all who believe. 

As Talmid said reading and studying "Please Consider" is a good way to go.  Revivalists do preach another gospel and it can be shown as that.  It really is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.  Also 'How to Read the Bible for all its Worth' helps open up understanding of contextual interpretation, something sadly lacking in RCI/RF with their liking for proof texting confusion.  It is not a bad thing to open up and train the mind in discernment by becoming more enquiring of the things many people accept as totally correct because it comes from Revivalist pastors. Even the choosing of these pastors can be quite questionable.

When I finally left I had to weigh up the evidence which was rapidly mounting against my remaining a Revivalist regardless of having    to leave family/relatives behind.  It has been a good move for me spiritually.

God Bless you in all you do and decide.  I pray for you.

Epi 

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:14/07/2010 9:59 AMCopy HTML

Thanks so much Talmid and Epi. I have checked it out before, and truthfully, I found the language a little difficult to get my head around. Ian is a highly educated person, and he writes above 'standard' English. I would love to give it a try again, take it slowly, and learn at my own pace. Thanks again! FS
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:14/07/2010 11:38 AMCopy HTML

FS
Feel free to drop an email off to Ian at didaktikon@gmail.com

He can use smaller words... 
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:14/07/2010 5:26 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest

Thanks so much Talmid and Epi. I have checked it out before, and truthfully, I found the language a little difficult to get my head around. Ian is a highly educated person, and he writes above 'standard' English. I would love to give it a try again, take it slowly, and learn at my own pace. Thanks again! FS

FS

Years ago, before my venture into RCI, I completed a fairly long bible course put out by a Professor of Scripture Studies from Canada.  I had a young family at the time and found it heavy going, late into some nights, but it did become easier as I progressed. 

The Please Consider articles were quite challenging, but like I experienced in my earlier course, I had to stay with it and slowly study the material presented looking into scriptures, commentaries etc as I went through. 

Take your time about it.  They are worth studying.

God Bless.

Epi
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:15/07/2010 12:03 AMCopy HTML

Faithful Shadow,

Unlike some others on Speaking in Tongues and receiving the Holy Spirit I still believe in this message but there are many other areas of the Gospel that RCI neglect.

Nor would I ever tell anyone to leave RCI. Our faith is in Christ and not with any denomination. The best friend we will ever have is Christ and that is where our strength is.

I would never have a problem going back to RCI as I still “love” them but I would not get through the door as I am a trouble maker and would continue to be in the Pastors faces in areas they have wrong.

The most important thing is that we continue to be led by the Spirit. FS if the Spirit continues to lead you to visit other denominations as well as RCI then God bless you. And if you get found out by RCI then God bless you again.

Another Guest.

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:15/07/2010 11:46 AMCopy HTML

Another Guest - I couldn't have said it better myself. Everything you said is exactly what I believe too. And that is the true freedom of Christianity - being led by the spirit and being truly contented with what we've been given. I think this forum is a wonderful tool to help each other along the journey, especially with healing some gaping wounds.

LOL MothandRust! I need 'kindergarten' level teaching when it comes to the complexities of Bible interpretation! Thanks for the email - I'll use it if I have any questions.

Epi, I'll definitely take it on. I've read one article so far, and although some of it was hard, I'll keep reading on to see if I can put the pieces together. Maybe being at RCI, some of the terminology is either a) not addressed or b) used differently. You did all that with a young family? All I can say is that I have huge respect for you. That's massive.

God Bless! FS

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:15/07/2010 12:54 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Epios


Years ago, before my venture into RCI, I completed a fairly long bible course put out by a Professor of Scripture Studies from Canada.  I had a young family at the time and found it heavy going, late into some nights, but it did become easier as I progressed. 

Really Epios? You had some serious Bible study prior to going into the RCs?  That's very rare. I know it happens, but it's rare.

Most people will tell you they were Catholic or some other mainline church b4 joining the RCs but when you probe them you find they rarely went to church or had a very vague understanding of their past church beliefs.

Pastor Ian Macgregor's wife came a from a very strong Baptist family and still joined the RCI. Pastor Ted Patmore had something to do with an evangelistic Methodist Film outreach or something. Ted Owen (GRC) told me he had been a Baptist (I don't know how much of Baptist theology he grasped though...he never struck me as the thinking type). So there are definitely some who truly do join the RCs knowingly rejecting some kind of structured religious belief, but it's rare. Most RCs converts come from a non-religious family or come from a kind of cultural Christianity, rather than a creedal or Bible based background. Churches like the RCs count on people not knowing their Bibles.

That's very interesting to know about you. Did you feel you grasped the evangelical belief about salvation prior to joining the RCI?  What made you change?  Tongues?

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:15/07/2010 5:31 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Te Luo Yi


Most people will tell you they were Catholic or some other mainline church b4 joining the RCs but when you probe them you find they rarely went to church or had a very vague understanding of their past church beliefs.


Te Luo Yi,

Not in my case.  I was practising and there were people I knew in the Revivalist groups who also were from traditional church backgrounds.  I suppose really the one determining factor would have to be tongues, plain and simply.  In my/our case I/we were involved in inter-denominational activities like FGBMFI and Aglow during the years between my/our scripture course and joining RCI.  Husband did not complete the course. I particularly, had become interested in the Pentecostal movement and looked in at their churches from time to time. 

When I encountered RCI and the authoritative way they presented their doctrine it took me unawares. It did seem plausable, the simple Pentecostal experience (tongues) which had been lost by layers of complication.  Among some in traditional churches the tongues phenomena (although not as salvation) would be familiar, but not a fully speaking in tongues church community, neither the well emphasised 'voice gifts' of tongues, interpretation and prophesy, neither the fundamentalism of RCI.
 
There are families who have come to RCI etc for a look and been placed in a difficult position when a young family member "receives" when prayed with.  While not being wise to the wily ways of Revivalists, pamphlets are accepted with contact numbers and follow-ups are often made.  RCI was not the type of church were one could come and go as one pleased without committing, no time to decide while instruction is given before entry.

I consider that joining RCI was a wrong, impulsive and costly move on my part at a vulnerable time, or maybe I should say a time of insanity because I should have looked more deeply into it.

Epi




















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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:15/07/2010 5:36 PMCopy HTML


Sorry about the large space at the bottom of my post.

Epi
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:18/09/2010 4:41 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Guest
Hi everyone! I've tried to sign up, but the 'submit' key isn't working (or I'm doing something wrong). I'll use the 'guest' option and have my nickname at the end. I'm Faithful Shadow. I go to RCI, and secretly to another church also. I love what I get from both. I choose to seek the Lord through these avenues, plus my own individual prayer and meditation. I don't get too involved in church things. I am very private. The other church has passion for Jesus! RCI has my friends and family that I love. I am so frustrated at how RCI blocks people who are seeking the Lord. I am so angry at how the oversight have hurt so many of you. The Lord loves all of us. Why is it that RCI has this attitude of exclusivity? Churches should be open to all people freely and cater for many needs and interests. Why can't Christians just come together, respect each others' differences and appreciate what we as individuals have to give? Why can't RCI embrace this? Maybe this is just 'idealism', but it is how I feel. I would love to hear your thoughts on this! God Bless.Faithful Shadow 

Hi again Faithful Shadow,

Let's go back to your first post in this thread.   Certainly for those looking out of Revival and perhaps contemplating leaving, the decision will be a difficult one, especially if the association has been long with family/relatives involved and friendships established.  Sometimes we do have to step out of the comfort zone and proceed in faith, trusting in the God we serve.  Serve often in Revivalist thinking meaning "the God who serves us" ie "I put God to the test" and "I said to God, you'd better come good God" etc etc.  For those who are really concerned about unsound, unbiblical salvation doctrine the decision is easier and the results beneficial for themselves and often those close who've never spared the time to think critically.

A strategy that I would use were I in your shoes would be to make friends when you visit that other church.  Or perhaps if you were to enquire in another church about bible study groups (Baptist Churches run them) where you can interact with others and freely discuss scriptural and a wide range of other things.   Rather unlike the audience mentality of Revivalist Churches which is restrictive and instills a fear in members of speaking out of turn, saying something wrong or off or reportable. That is should they have the opportunity for self expression.  Making friends with people in another church would, if/when exiting a Revival Church, give needed support and some recourse where family/friends are concerned - that the carnal world which is enmity with God has not got you. They might even be surprised by the fully Christian environment you have entered should they like to take a furtive look-see themselves.

Don't delay too long with the loaded locutions of Revivalists at work to enslave.  They make very good use of such as "in the Lord" meaning rather arrogantly, in their own brand of Revivalism only, "left the Lord" those who leave that brand of Revivalism
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:18/09/2010 4:53 AMCopy HTML

Somehow my unfinished post has been posted so I'll continue :- 

Also other sayings like "falling away" "backslidden"  "foresaking the fellowship" will all weaken confidence the confidence of those who should get out and at least have a look.

Yes, FC, patience/longsuffering is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.  Joy is also a fruit of the Holy Spirit.  Please don't lose while you're patiently waiting in Revival.

God Bless you

Epi

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:18/09/2010 8:34 AMCopy HTML

Hi FS

Ep said * A strategy that I would use were I in your shoes would be to make friends when you visit that other church.*   
This was extremely important to my family when we left, fortunately it was a bit more personal in that the family were old close ex-rciers who had left with the 1995 morals split. And greatly assisted us in seeing things more clearly, this support really did help. It also buffered the feeling of going into the unknown (or outside side the RCI bubble of life).  While still in rci we like you FS were in close contact with many like-minded individuals trying to figure things out and how to release  our selves from the place and slip away. (Christmas time is always a good time to disappear go and holidays never to return). 
We have also lost close informal contact with family members who have since taken the "Keep us at arms length and keep the conversation safe stance" which has been a little upsetting, but we soon got over it, the benefits of being out far out weighted anything else. Quite possibly like us, close friends are watching you and your  progress. Our close friends who were watching us consequently, also left after seeing our courage and realizing that the world out side the rci bubble really wasn’t that bad.  Another great encouragement was meeting and talking to ex-rciers who have taken this journey, Chances are you and I have run into each other, as I was there for about 30 years :). I also admit you do go through a grieving stage, because the place does become such a huge part of your life. It does take time, and trust me you soon be able to move forward.
Keep strong FS, Walk in the light that the Lord is guiding you now, one step at a time, I admit it really is a leap of faith when leaving but, certainly a leap worth taking


Im_out

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:18/09/2010 8:41 AMCopy HTML

The RCI has changed a lot over the years - form being very domineering to minding there own business unless called upon.
If anyone had reasons to leave it would be me. But to my knowledge, humans are still human and while humans will always make mistakes - faults will always occur with leaders and congregation alike, (No matter where you go - right or wrong).
I don't hold the belief that if you leave the brand you have lost your salvation - Thats just garbage. But a lot still believe that unfortunately. (The bible does not say "Thou shalt be a member of RCI") or any other for that matter. It does say to follow Jesus though, and his ways.
Pretty much all denominations believe that there way (of believing) is the right way. Yet RCI is picked on here because it thinks the same..? Bit strange IMO. 
Every denomination changes over generations, some times for good - sometimes for bad. 
RCI is no different! They have had times of appalling judgment and times where they shine.
Most of the people on here would be from the earlier times of RCI mentioned (and that is a shame - as it has damaged a lot of people)
I have seen a lot of people come and go in my time there. But I'm sure other people in other places could say the same thing.
People fall in love, get married, every thing is rosy, then after a few years the marriage is completely different - it takes a lot of constant maintenance and communication for it to work. Then one sees someone ells in the crowd, and thinks - things look better over there. But if they thought about it - Exactly the same scenario would play out and they'd be back to square one again with the same feelings, work and wot not they had in the first relationship. Its a loose generalization I know. But sometimes it's like that with people. But some have quite legitimate reasons to leave the brand also.

Basically my point is RCI is not GOD. It is a brand like any other. The people/myself are following the lords ways the best way they know how. History says some Pastors have got it wrong at times and they know it. History also says that every other denomination have had the same issues. 

Seems a bit of a waist to constantly bring up how it was, when so many years have passed and change has also.

Time will always tell.

That is my truth.
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:18/09/2010 9:51 PMCopy HTML

Hi TMT

It's good to hear that RCI are "nicer" these days, but ...

Personally, I left the RCI because of the doctinal issue of restoring sinners who commit sexual sin, although arguably I *should* have left because of the mistreatment of congregants I heard about.

Then I left RF, and didn't return to RCI, because I came to understand that the "salvation message" is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Whatever RCI may be a brand of, it isn't a brand of Biblical Christianity.

PS As far as how Christian churches relate to each other, there's an awful lot more acceptance of "denominational distinctives" than there is of RCI's acceptance of those who don't "speak in tongues". It was like that in the 1960's and 70's as I grew up in a Methodist church, and it seems to be even more so now that post-Christendom society is clearly manifesting itself. Have you ever really thought about the implications of the nature of what used to be called "ministers' fraternals" and also the RCI practice of staying apart from such groups?
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:19/09/2010 2:14 AMCopy HTML

If I tell you the truth,will you listen?

I don't wish to add to Talmid's assessment of matters as there's no need, he summed things up rather well: Revivalism isn't Christian. Consequently, this isn't an issue about perceived "branding" at all (unless one wishes to consider Revivalism to be akin to a cheap, Chinese made "knock-off" of something intrinsically valuable, like a Swiss watch: it may look like the "real-deal" when glanced at superficially, but it doesn't take very long to discover that it ain't!) What's actually at stake is the matter of whether one is found to be in the faith, or not in the faith (see 2 Corinthians 13:5). I'll put it to you rather bluntly: if you're a Revivalist; or even if you aren't, but you persist in believing and promoting their falsely-called "salvation message", then you're not in the faith. Paul nailed it when he wrote Galatians 1:6 through 10. Look it up. Ruminate on the consequence of the apostle cursing those who promote the "knock-offs" to hell.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:19/09/2010 6:43 AMCopy HTML

Hi TMT,

You say that if anyone had reasons to leave it would be you.  I'm wondering why exactly you stay.  You must have had your own set of problems with RCI so why stay on?  So many do, turning the other cheek all the time.  No-one has to put up with the rubbish that has been dished out to people in the past.

You say a lot of changes have been made but do they inform people of them?  Some, as you say still believe that to leave RCI is to lose salvation.  Something which is a 'whole lot of garbage' in your opinion.  I know this would go against the grain but I think RCI pastors should apologise to their members, humbly admitting that it was wrong and these attitudes do not apply any more.  This is along with a whole lot of other things that need to be changed.

Is the morals stand which (presumably) brought about the split still in operation?  Are people still permanently excluded from Church fellowship because of it?  Understanding of the role of the Holy Spirit in a Church should make it a place which operates and practices as a reconciling community.

Where other churches are concerned, the majority of other churches preach the same Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which  the apostles preached.  Revival Churches who along with UPC (maybe a few others) elevate the tongues phenomena as proof of salvation to the exclusion of the Gospel of Christ.   The Holy Spirit almost becomes an independent figure because of this over-emphasis on tongues.

Not strange at all that RCI etc are picked on.

God Bless

Epi

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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:21/09/2010 10:14 AMCopy HTML

Hello F.S.

Why is it that RCI has this attitude of exclusivity?

They have a very exclusive message.  So exclusive even Christians cannot enter in.  If they accepted other denominations, they would be left wanting.  Their theology just doesn't stack up. 

Churches should be open to all people freely and cater for many needs and interests. Why can't Christians just come together, respect each others' differences and appreciate what we as individuals have to give? Why can't RCI embrace this?

"Churches" are in fact open to all people freely - that is one of their intended purposes.  Just about every other denomination out there do get together, do respect their differences, and will make use of what you have to give.  This has certainly been my experience.  On the other hand there are "Heterodox" organizations like RCI  - and they live up to their namesake.  Check a definition of heterodox, and then put that against "universal" or "Catholic".

Can RCI change?  Probably.  Will it?  Probably not. I have noticed that within the Pentecostal scene at present, polarization is occurring, some are going down the heterodox pathway, but luckily for some they are moving towards better theological study, and are becoming orthodox and catholic in their outlook.  Good things to come I hope.

Regards,

Mr Klms 
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:22/09/2010 5:03 AMCopy HTML

.  So exclusive even Christians cannot enter in. 

Mr Klms 

Hello Mr. Kilometers..

One question that needs to be asked.....

..Why would a Christian want to go to a Revivalist meeting ???


Meta..

.
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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:25/10/2010 11:27 PMCopy HTML

So I read - I have to examine/prove my self to be in the faith, so that I'm not damned...

This is my whole aim.. Truth. To be sure.. To know. 

Then I read - To watch out for those who preach another gospel from the one I was originally taught, and if they do.. let them be accursed...

As far as I am aware,.. I have not done any preaching on here, telling people to follow another gospel.

And I am the reprobate accursed one?

When you were filled with his spirit, was it a lie? 

What good is it for me to try and fake something like that? 

Why would I pretend to have an experience? Just put myself through skepticism and mocking?

To be completely honest His spirit is the only truth (I) know and the only reason I believe there is a God at all. 

If someone says (after reading a passage in the bible) "I Think this means..."   I switch off. Because He doesn't know, He thinks...  I don't care who it is.

If through out the bible, it is filled with example after example of God telling people not to follow any other god, idle or gospel. 

Why is it different today?  Has God changed his mind? 

Why would God want people of different faiths to come together to pollute what he wanted even more? How is a place that preys to dead people for answers... what God told us?

RCI may not be perfect... So stone them if yours are.




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Re:Can RCI ever change?

Date Posted:26/10/2010 3:23 AMCopy HTML

TMTT,

I'll begin by stating that I believe your entire post was predicated on a number of untested and thoroughly naive assumptions. Unfortunately these are the very same assumptions that are defining for people of your religious persuasion; consequently, they remain the greatest impediment to you accepting (and embracing) Christian orthodoxy. The primary impediment, of course, remains your trenchant belief that Revivalism is correct in what it assumes.


When you were filled with his spirit, was it a lie? If by "filled with his spirit" you really mean, "I spoke with Revivalist 'tongues'"? Then 'yes', that was a lie. Likely as not the only spirit involved in that particular transaction was the human spirit. Being whelmed with God's Holy Spirit doesn't necessarily manifest itself in any one form of spontaneous outwards expression. What such a whelming does produce, however, is inward regeneration that is marked by a complete spiritual change. The outwards 'fruit' of this change is to be found in lives wholly lived for God through Christ. Changed character, then, is the mark of the so-called 'Spirit-Filled' Christian and not simply changed 'conversation'.

Why would I pretend to have an experience? Just put myself through skepticism and mocking? I don't think you are pretending. I'm confident that you actually believe what took place was spiritually valid and defining. However, suggestion can be a powerful force and all the more so when it's reinforced in the mind of the potential convert via a standard set of Revivalist practices. These include: (1) The stringing together of disjointed proof-texts from the Bible in order to support and defend what is an unbiblical message about 'tongues'. Those who know their Bibles well tend to be far less accommodating of such nonsense. (2) The contrived Revivalist "two or three  personal 'testimonies'", performed to a standard template, each one reinforcing the Longfieldian "1-2-3 salvation message". Repetition is a great tool in reprogramming. (3) The contrived Revivalist "two or three 'tongues', followed by two or three 'interpretations', followed by two or three 'prophecies'". None of which, of course, matches what we find Paul describing to the Church at Corinth. (4) Then there is the contrived and completely unbiblical practice of the 'Seeker's Meeting', wherein sincere people are coached by the devout in the fine art of gibberish. In short your defining religious experience lacks in either biblical mandate or warrant. Importantly, it also lacks the testimony of history.

To be completely honest His spirit is the only truth (I) know and the only reason I believe there is a God at all. If your experience of "tongues" is the only reason that you believe that there is a God, then I'd suggest that your belief is founded on nothing more solid than sand. Consequently, your belief in God is no more 'grounded' in objective reality than is the belief of a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness, given that they too, are accepting of subjectivism in lieu of Scripture.

The reality is that Gospel hasn't changed; it's no different today than it was when first delivered. It remains the good news about Jesus Christ and the victory he wrought on a cross at Calvary. What you fellows believe, preach and promote; however, isn't the Gospel. To be perfectly frank what you believe, and have substituted in the place of the Gospel, is a lie. According to Paul what you preach is damnation, pure and simple.

In closing I think you're absolutely correct in one thing, the RCI isn't perfect. More telling than its lack of 'perfection'; however, is the fact that the RCI isn't Christian. And that's what really counts in all of this.

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
RCI prophesies
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