Reply to : dogmafree

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. 

After leaving the RCI I eventually joined another Pentecostal group, namely the AOG.  I then kind of moved backwards through Chrisitan history from there.  I eventually joined a Baptist church and then a Church of Christ.  I was also invited to be the youth pastor of an Anglican church, which I declined.  These were all fundamentalist churches in the sense of believing the historical tenets of the faith.  (Of course the Revivalists hold organisation membership as being the pinacle of all things religious so to explore other churches and beliefs after leaving is seen as somehow 'unstable'. But it is healthy to explore and learn.)  Anyway, I of course had a lot to do with people of other Christian groups.  After leaving church I had a VERY brief flirt with Catholicism.  While I don't see them as the anti-Christ, the core of their faith is Christian after all and this had long lost its impact or influence on me.

So I eventually started to investigate non-Christian faiths.  The one that had a lot of appeal for me was Buddhism.  I hate to say it, but I think it was because of the trendiness of it.  I don't mean I liked it because it was trendy, rather because it was trendy, I knew a bit about it.  I did a lot of reading on the subject, visited some temples (easy to do in Asia...but easy in Oz too these days) and talked with some Buddhists.  In Korea, Buddhists happliy live alongside the Christians.  The Christians don't think Buddhists are demon possessed or that one will 'catch' evil spirits if one visits a temple.  That was healthy.  I realised how much superstition and fear was peddled in Western churches regarding Bhuddism.  I read lots of books by Buddhists and even SOME of the writings of the Buddha.  But as one friend of mine said, "You can read about it all you want but to get a real feel for Buddhism then you need to practice it."  He was right, but to be frank, the last thing I wanted or was even ready for is another religious belief system. 

There are a few big problems I have with Tibetan Buddhism though.

1.  Watch the movie 'KUNDUN' and you will see that they use oracles.  That is, people claiming to be possessed by spirits who give direction and even tell the future.  They spit and hiss and growl and it is very Linda Blair!  This kind of superstition turns me right off.

2.  When the Dali Lama and his mates ruled Tibet it was hardly a Buddhist paradise.  The monks were like a religious ruling class who lived in relative luxury while the rank and file Tibetan lived in poverty.  They were also very cruel in the way they treated people, even gouging out eyes and killing people for crimes.  I am not advocating the Chinese subjegation of Tibet, but since the Chinese came in they have added public school system, rail and a syste of roads, lifted the standard of living and increased the Tibetan economic situation.  Again, I am not advocating the Chinese position, but I will point out that the Monks did not rule the country fairly or even benevolantly.

But that is Tibetan Buddhism and not all flavours of Buddhism.  However, in my experience so far (6+ years in Asia), Buddhism is usually practiced with a large chunk of Animism, ancestor veneration and superstition.  I don't know how the Buddha would have felt about this, but this is the state of Buddhism in most, if not all, countries.

So I felt like I had a good grasp of the tenets and beliefs and moved on.  My more recent research project was Islam.  That was interesting too.

There is an awesome amount of insightful practical teaching and wisdom from some Buddhist sources. I find books that I've read have helped to stabilise things a great deal, as there are very simple and accurate observations of the human condition that provide clarity and sense of it all.

I too have a healthy respect for much of what the Buddha said.  His moral teacings are in many ways comparable to those of Jesus.  Of course both religions have very different foundations and eventual outcomes and hopes...but they are strikingly similar in terms of moral teaching.  But they are both contextualised in a bygone age and much of what the Buddha and Jesus said is archaic and for a long gone time.

No I'm not advocating throwing yourself into another religion and becoming a buddhist. I certainly won't be. Neither is it denying Christ to inquire into such wisdom. But buddhism offers a very gentle, calm way of explaining the realities of life in a manner that is refreshingly accessible, (unlike the brain-drain of wrestling with the bible). This gentle approach can be very healing at a time when you have been through the wringer!

Agreed.  The meditative aspects are very beneficial to many.  I think one can do very well to take the good things of any philosophy or religion.

To dispel a myth.... the Buddha is/was not a God and never claimed to be. He was a man that lived and died, but in his journey started a movement of inquiry into the nature of life.

He did ascend to a higher plane of existence and took on many god-like qualities.  But yes, he did not claim to be divine in the Christian sense of the word, especially while he was on earth.

It is basically a practice of removing the layers of illusion and nonsense that beclouds our minds like peeling layers of an onion. And finding that you are AWAKE.

Yeah, and that is where I tend to disagree with Buddhism.  To deny this reality as being somehow a lesser reality doesn't cut it with me.  This reality is all we have and a religion based on denail of this reality has the potential to be destructive.  The Buddha himslef saw this and hence called his ideas, "The Middle Way".  He was looking to implement a way of life that didn't give over to asceticism or give over to self indulgence.  Still, I like this reality.  It doesn't seem so bad to me.

I am just sharing my point of view here Dog.  I don't mean to sound like I am undermining what you found helpful.  I, like you, am always (cautiously) on the lookout for anything helpful or beneficial. 

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Hey Te,You and I are generally on a similar wavelength here I feel."Yeah, and that is where I tend to disagree with Buddhism. To deny this reality as being somehow a lesser reality doesn't cut it with me. This reality is all we have and a religion based on denail of this reality has the potential to be destructive. The Buddha himslef saw this and hence called his ideas, "The Middle Way". He was looking to implement a way of life that didn't give over to asceticism or give over to self indulgence. Still, I like this reality. It doesn't seem so bad to me."Its not my intention to enter into any great debate about such stuff, but a few comments about your quote above......I'm not advocating any kind of denial here. By applying ourselves to awareness is to open our eyes to reality at every level. One of the mistakes that some may make is to idealise th

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Hey there Snoop Doggy Dogma! Sorry also for this late reply to your post. Its been one of those posts you keep seeing and mean to get too, but dont! Until now at least. I don't claim to now anyting 'indepth' about the Buddhist faith but has intrigued me for a long time. I say this next comment in complete ignorance, but I cannot remember the last time a war was caused due to Buddhist beliefs???? Many a war, as you are well aware, has been caused by Christian beliefs and others alike. Buddhism is something I would like to delve into further. Not to become 'one of them' but rather, to adopt some of their very principles in life. It seems a calming kind of way of life to me. From the little I know of it anyway. I have watched the movie.. " Seven Years In Tibet" several times and, although I know of course, it was filled with alot of Hollywood Fluff, it still brakes my heart that the simple way of life for them was taken away. Although.. maybe, according to Te's post... life for them may be a lot better now. (No disprespect intended to your post there Te!) I just wish, we, in western countries could adopt a more simple way of living as they had/have.

Thankyou for your informative post. I will be sure to look it all up. And thankyou too for your private email suggesting other books and courses! MUCH appreciated!

Regards... Bindi

You and I are generally on a similar wavelength here I feel.

Perhaps we are. 

I'm not advocating any kind of denial here.

Hey, I never thought you were.  Rather, we were talking about the Buddha and Buddhism.  It's all cool.  Really.  I am happy to discuss it and break it down, so don't feel it would ever get personal.

By applying ourselves to awareness is to open our eyes to reality at every level. One of the mistakes that some may make is to idealise the ascetic levels of practice, and this can certainly be a recipe for disaster as they take their eyes off the immediate realities of life. In Jacks book, 'After the ecstacy, the laundry' is a very grounded book that explores and explains these facts..... (after you climb to the mountain-top, you then have to come back down again).

Sure.  Have you read Siddhartha by Herman Hess?  I felt that Siddhartha was shirking his earthly responsibilities to his son in the pursuit of enlightenment.  I am sure that Hess was well aware that many readers would feel the same as I did when reading that.  What is the greater good?  Reaching enlightenment or being a good father?  Is one able to reach enlightenment without acknowledging your earthly duties? 

Chinese Buddhism would say "NO!!!" as they have a long cultural tradition of filial piety.  As a matter of fact, in the book, "A Moment in Peking" the father of the female protagonist/hero waits until his children are all married and well established in their adult lives before leaving them their inheritances and going off the be a Taoist monk (not Buddist I know, but this demonstrates the Chinese thinking). He later returns after having wandered the country for decades and is now seen by even his family as a venreated monk.  Herein lies the conundrum for Siddhartha, Herman Hess and so many others I would guess...where is the said "middle way"?

I welcome your observations and comments on all this.

And there they were.  Short and oh so sweet! 

Ok, how pretentious was this post?  I sound sooooo well read and SUCH an expert on China!  Who is impressed with me?  I know I am.

Reply to : dogmafree

If you have broadband or access to it then Iyou might like to download the BBC doco, The Life of Buddha.  It is historical and makes no moral judgements but rather tries to be somewhat objective.  You can find the torrent at:

http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/697189/BBC_The_Life_of_Buddha_DivX5_AC3_www_mvgroup_org_avi

You will need a torrent program to download it.  You can try the one I use, BitComet, at www.bitcomet.com .

Ciao

Te Luo Yi