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Uncoolman
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Date Posted:05/07/2011 1:53 AMCopy HTML

Hi everyone,

I have observed this website now for over twelve months now. I have enjoyed reading so many different stories about people leaving various cults and the different outcomes. 

Well done for providing such a good resource for people to share their lives and experiences!

I have decided to finally share my story and ask for some advice from others who have gone before and perhaps been in similar situations. I joined up at the RF 11 years ago when I was a teenager. Over the last four years I have questioned some of the key doctrines of the organisation and have found myself unhappy in this group for a while now. I still feel somewhat confused and disillusioned as it is hard to re-learn what you've known to be true for years. 

I first began to question some of the group's morals and decisions when I seen a lot of friends my age put out of church for various things, some quite ridiculous. I seen the trauma it caused others, the lack of support church leaders showed and the nasty judgmental attitude others displayed. The group I am apart of is not as extreme thankfully as some of the groups mentioned. They are not AS controlling and full-on. Anyway I am now in a position where I would like to leave. I've been thinking the same thing for the last six months, where an opportunity has now come up as people have started to find out.

The first main doctrine I have found wrong is the 'tongues=Holy Spirit=Being Saved. In my job I have come across so many different Christian individuals from various denominations. I cannot possibly tell these dedicated, spirit-filled people that they are less saved than me when the power of God is clearly working through them.

 I have read through the New Testament and have found so much about belief=salvation that it cannot be denied. The second thing is the control that the group has over people's lives. The encouragement to be nosy and be so judgmental to others is very wrong. I have been finding the talks progressively irrelevant and quite boring to be honest. I have found the group rules people by fears, in particular the end of the world is a massive focus. Alcohol is another area where I believe Revival have made blanket rules where people are not allowed to make their own lifestyle choices.

Anyway, you're probably thinking why am I still there? Well I am married to a man who has been heavily involved in the group for his whole life. The belief systems are so deeply ingrained in his being that he becomes angry when the topic even comes up. Our marriage is fragile and I am worried that this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak. We have been married for eight years, and the church has been our life.
We have one young child and I do not want him to be indoctrinated at a later date. I also don't want our family to be broken down. I have heard many cases where pastors have intervened and made it hard for couples to stay together.

 We have been very involved in the past. Since I have looked into things, both of us have taken a step back from the group, and do not attend church as often. My husband still strongly disagrees with me and believes I am off the rails and going through 'an emotional phase'. I am wondering whether I should sit it out and pray that we can eventually be on the same page if I stay in the group and keep explaining myself.

I am worried about the after-effects of leaving. He has mentioned that he will leave me if I leave the group. He's said things like 'it's the church or me'. He has since changed his mind and said it would be wrong to do that (leave the marriage) . We also have a lot of family there and people we have known for a long time, so there are a lot of ties there. People have started to find out about my situation and the consideration of leaving the group. I am deciding whether to leave now or whether I should stay in the group for the sake of my marriage, even if its for a bit longer. He sometimes shows signs of hope and logic. 

I'm wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation or if you have any advice for me. It is a shame that leaving the group means losing your whole friendship group and family support. I do not have a problem with people. If anything I will miss so many of the people there. They have been like my own family. It is the system I have a problem with. It's a very destructive church. 

I have since found another church that I would consider going to. It is a Pentecostal type church, but I have really enjoyed going there. At the moment I am doing both churches and my husband has been okay about that. I don't want to wreck things if there is a hope for us. Why do you advise not to attend Pentecostal churches? Is it because they can be similar to Revival churches?

I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts anyone has. This has been a difficult time and I want to be wise about things. I want my Christian walk to be stronger than ever & rely on Jesus through all this mess.

Thanks everyone & God Bless,

Anon.
-------------------------------

Hi, Anon..

Welcome.

There are certainly people here who can provide you with good advice regarding your circumstances, people who have been where you are now. I'll limit myself to making a few very brief observations at this time.

First, a statement of fact: the RF isn't Christian, what they preach is contrary to the biblical Gospel of grace. Consequently, if you wish to follow Jesus Christ then you must leave that place. Next, you indicated that your husband had given you an ultimatum, that he is prepared to put the RF before you. If he is, then to be perfectly honest, he isn't worth worrying about. Whilst this may sound blunt, I don't think it prudent to be couching the gist of the matter in anything but forthright language.  

Finally some advcice: avoid Pentecostal churches as you would the plague! They are not a viable alternative to your current situation. What exposure to such places will do is reinforce faulty beliefs that you already possess by virtue of having spent a significant period of time in Revival. There's very little to gain by making the small hop from heresy to heterodoxy given that you need to be making the much larger leap to orthodoxy (i.e. biblical Christianity).

God bless,

Ian 

---------------------------------

Hi Anon.,

welcome to the Forum.

Firstly I would like to tell you, that the advice given by Ian is sound and good.

I have been in your predicament and sitting in meetings when you know that the information is wrong and they are clearly using fear and guilt to keep people in a constant state of anxiety can be soul destroying. 

Once you have made the decision to leave it becomes even more stressful for you to stay.

You say that your husband has changed his mind and has said that leaving you under these circumstances would be wrong..............and that BOTH of you have taken a step back from the group.

That is wonderful......I would suggest trying to read some of the books that are in the GRC or other 'suggested reading' section of this Forum.

Also look in Amazon for books on cults and cult mind control.  

You can order them online and they are delivered to your door. Maybe your husband will read them too.

I ordered a book from a Christian bookstore in Melbourne CBD when I first left and the young people 'manning' the store were switched on to people trying to exit cults and sects, so much so, that they provided some young people to help us through the first 'grown-up' steps that we had taken in our 'walk'.

Maybe you could go into a Christian bookstore, buy a book, talk to the people working in the store about your predicament. I thought the roof would fall in, or the floor open up and swallow us because we had been warned by the pastor never to go into these stores, but only read the literature that was provided. What utter tripe!!!!!

Leaving takes GREAT courage and the consequences ARE really bad..... initially and I emphasise initially.

You will lose friends and relatives, you will wonder at times, 'but what if they were right!', you will lose your support group and it will be very frightening (for a time).

BUT, you will have your life back, you will recover and you are now free to seek the Lord in honesty and Truth genuinely, .....not the way they pay lip service to in Revival.

If you have family and friends that are not part of Revival now is a good time to renew relationships. They will understand and help, if you explain what has gone on in your life with regard to Revival over the years.

The understanding is not complete and you will get tired of 'how on earth did you get sucked in to that', but basically the people 'out there' are kind and compassionate.

I too would avoid any 'happy, clappy' church and Pentecostal churches as Ian suggests.

Churches that follow an orthodox manner of worship have changed with the times and you will be able to find one that suits.

I found the Ministers that I spoke to were all too aware of the harmful doctrines and spiritual abuse that that the various sects were dishing out to their followers.  

Life outside Revival is blessed.

Relationships outside Revival are blessed.

Friendships outside Revival are blessed.

Good luck, 

Glad 

----------------------------

Hi Anon.,

Your dilemma is not an uncommon one in these 'walled' churches.  Among Revivalists I would keep my cards close to the chest and don't give anything away about how you feel.  Word travels in these circles and it would do your cause no good to be labelled as having left because you had a 'shaky walk."  You would be more in tune with the truth than they are and it is something I'm sure you will want your husband to come to see also.

A lot of the Pentecostal Churches are not much more than froth and bubble.  Speaking face to face with a qualified Church Minister would be helpful.  Deprogramming from all the Revivalist rubbish is essential.  Among others, in the mainstream Churches I have found a Baptist Minister and his wife very helpful friends and their wise counsel I have sought often.  You have a husband and young child 
so saving your marriage and getting them out as well would have to be the aim.  By his at the moment 'the church or me' attitude he is making the Church the third party in the marriage.  That you have both stepped back from your involvement in the Revival group and don't attend so many meetings is a step in the right direction.  As he has grown up Revivalist one step at a time is cause for thanksgiving.

Putting aside time to prayerfully read  through the New Testament with your husband is a good sharing experience.  Discussing various sections of scripture, reading the notes and researching for yourselves, away from the 'showmanship' in the vast majority of Revivalist pastors' talks might give you some valuable discovery time together. 

Do not make hasty decisions, do seek council from someone outside Revivalism who knows their scriptures well and can offer wise advice. 

I will pray for you.

God Bless.

Epi

According to Dictionary.com.

"Showmanship"  -  A person skilled at presenting anything in an effective manner.

I was always fascinated listening to various pastors and how much alike they all sounded.  Same voice modulation, same wisecracks which everyone laughed at time and time again; no matter how often they were repeated people always laughed.  And jokes aside, the flitting from one scripture verse to another out of context was confusing and annoying, but worse still it was interspersed with highly descriptive exscessive drivel.

My thoughts on Revival talks.

Epi
----------------------

Hi Anon., I guess your mind is in a place similar to where most of ours was at some point past. The decision to leave is a substantial one, and I think Glad has put it very well. For me, I felt I was living a lie in some respects in Revival, and that the Bible and what was being preached at GRC just aren't the same, especially the on and on about tongues only salvation. We also had to try to understand how other groups almost identical to ours were "backslidin" and we were the Lord's anointed. After much prayer my wife and I left and now attend a local Presbyterian church and we are very pleased with it, although no doubt there are many good churches of other denominations, its just I live in a small country town and it has the most to offer a Bible believing Christian in my area. I personally would keep away from penty churches as I believe they are generally "soft" versions of the revival heresy. Find a good well educated minister that you are comfortable with, and you will be amazed how they can show you, very clearly, how far off track revival centres are. Try to listen to what God has to say to you, and I am sure He will lead you to His truth. I will include you in my prayers as I understand the difficulties of your situation.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:05/07/2011 10:00 AMCopy HTML

Well, that's weird!

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 2:39 AMCopy HTML

SUCH AMAZING CARELESSNESS

 

Hi Ian: I just wanted to make an observation regarding your comments in your post below.

 

You said “Next, you indicated that your husband had given you an ultimatum that he is prepared to put the RF before you. If he is, then to be perfectly honest, he isn't worth worrying about”.

 

When making such “shotgun” remarks do you regard the scriptures at all?

This person has already stated that her marriage is “Fragile” and that she is confused and in spite of this, what do you do???

Use her situation to earn some “Anti-Revivalist Mileage” out of her circumstance, at her expense.

You comments are nothing short of stupid, uninformed and rash. Statements like the one cited are examples of why I for one am entirely skeptical about what motivates you.

Take a moment and consider the response had a Revivalist Pastor given the exact same advice to a member in the opposite position (i.e their spouse "isn't worth worrying about"…There would be outrage! But you hide in your dark little basement giving such damaging advice.....Disgracefull!

You sir, lack wisdom, care, humility and good judgement in giving such advice and the fact that you do not see it is to your shame.

Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder

Mj

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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 3:35 AMCopy HTML

Jingles,

You said “Next, you indicated that your husband had given you an ultimatum that he is prepared to put the RF before you. If he is, then to be perfectly honest, he isn't worth worrying about”. 'Yep', that sounds about right.

When making such “shotgun” remarks do you regard the scriptures at all? What do you reckon? Would you like for me to quote chapter and verse for your benefit? Would that help? This person has already stated that her marriage is “Fragile” and that she is confused and in spite of this, what do you do??? Use her situation to earn some “Anti-Revivalist Mileage” out of her circumstance, at her expense. Actually, what I did was point out that her husband had behaved in a thoroughly selfish, thoroughly unscriptural, and (from a Christian POV) thoroughly inconsistent manner. Well ... go figure, he is a Revivalist after all. (How's that quip go at cashing in some 'anti-Revivalist currency'?)

You comments are nothing short of stupid, uninformed and rash. Actually, for my comments to be stupid or uninformed would require statements of this sort: "the RF is a Christian church", or "the RF preaches the Gospel", et cetera. And a 'rash' comment would be: "Jingles, you're an idiot'. Statements like the one cited are examples of why I for one am entirely skeptical about what motivates you. I should worry myself about what you think, why? The fact is, according to our correspondent her husband, an RF member, gave her an ultimatum: "leave the RF and you leave me too". I don't expect you to know this, but the teaching of Scripture is that a believer's primary loyalty is to Christ, not to one's spouse; far less to a religious organisation. The Bible also teaches that the responsibility for a successful marriage falls primarily on the husband. And yet in spite of these two factors, he was prepared to use spousal abandonment as a threat to coerce his wife into obedience! Sorry, but no wife has to put up with such cruel behaviour from her 'husband', Revivalist or not, Christian or not. I do find it interesting; however, that you completely passed over the atrocious behaviour reported of your co-religionist, and without comment, to target my advice that she not worry about the threats made by her husband. I'd suggest this indicates that your ethical compass very clearly needs recalibrating.

Take a moment and consider the response had a Revivalist Pastor given the exact same advice to a member in the opposite position (i.e their spouse "isn't worth worrying about"…There would be outrage! But you hide in your dark little basement giving such damaging advice.....Disgracefull! Me? Hiding?! Since when, you goose? I post openly, and unlike you, I put my name to what I write. No 'basements' here, big fella. Howsaboutyou?

You sir, lack wisdom, care, humility and good judgement in giving such advice and the fact that you do not see it is to your shame. And you, sir, are clearly a self-righteous twit. Moreover, you're a twit who has failed to understand what I actually wrote.

When you have a spare moment take a wander through 1 Corinthians 7 and then consult Ephesians 5:25. Given your obviously poor level of reading comprehension, I'd suggest that you use a translation such as the 'Good News Bible' in the first instance. I fear that anything more overtly literate would likely 'stretch' you too far.

Goose.

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 3:55 AMCopy HTML

 It would be nice if for once we could ignore our personal differences, stop nitpicking each others attempts to help someone who took the huge step of laying out their dilemma on the Forum and provide constructive

 suggestions and opinions based on scripture, common sense and experience in an edifying manner to the person who started the initial thread.

EDIFY, benefit spiritually; improve morally 

Glad
"Faith is not about everything turning out OK; Faith is about being OK no matter how things turn out."
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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 3:58 AMCopy HTML

Glad,

Context is always important, and on-line advice-giving has its limitations.

'Jingles' responded to my post in what was a typical, self-righteous Revivalist fashion: honing in on a misunderstanding of his own making, whilst ignoring altogether the principle issue. This is the 'straining-at-a-gnat-whilst-swallowing-a-camel' approach to fault-finding/correction that's so popular in his whacky religion. And errors of this sort need to be addressed.

Despite the particular pastoral circumstance/scenario that motivated this thread, it's sometimes necessary to 'confute heretics' as and when they spout off (doing so prevents the garbage from piling up).  In any case our new friend is free to contact anyone who she believes may be able to help her here, by either email or PM. And, of course, given that 'A' clearly mentioned that she'd been lurking in these here parts for about a year, and given that she'd also demonstrated she possesses a smart head on her shoulders (note her comments about doctrine, social behaviour, etc), I doubt that she's a 'starry-eyed' neophyte. I just didn't get the impression that she would be someone unprepared for the nature of discussions that take regularly place here :)

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 5:01 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon

Jingles,

You said “Next, you indicated that your husband had given you an ultimatum that he is prepared to put the RF before you. If he is, then to be perfectly honest, he isn't worth worrying about”. 'Yep', that sounds about right.

When making such “shotgun” remarks do you regard the scriptures at all? What do you reckon? Would you like for me to quote chapter and verse for your benefit? Would that help? This person has already stated that her marriage is “Fragile” and that she is confused and in spite of this, what do you do??? Use her situation to earn some “Anti-Revivalist Mileage” out of her circumstance, at her expense. Actually, what I did was point out that her husband had behaved in a thoroughly selfish, thoroughly unscriptural, and (from a Christian POV) thoroughly inconsistent manner. Well ... go figure, he is a Revivalist after all. (How's that quip go at cashing in some 'anti-Revivalist currency'?)

You comments are nothing short of stupid, uninformed and rash. Actually, for my comments to be stupid or uninformed would require statements of this sort: "the RF is a Christian church", or "the RF preaches the Gospel", et cetera. And a 'rash' comment would be: "Jingles, you're an idiot'. Statements like the one cited are examples of why I for one am entirely skeptical about what motivates you. I should worry myself about what you think, why? The fact is, according to our correspondent her husband, an RF member, gave her an ultimatum: "leave the RF and you leave me too". I don't expect you to know this, but the teaching of Scripture is that a believer's primary loyalty is to Christ, not to one's spouse; far less to a religious organisation. The Bible also teaches that the responsibility for a successful marriage falls primarily on the husband. And yet in spite of these two factors, he was prepared to use spousal abandonment as a threat to coerce his wife into obedience! Sorry, but no wife has to put up with such cruel behaviour from her 'husband', Revivalist or not, Christian or not. I do find it interesting; however, that you completely passed over the atrocious behaviour reported of your co-religionist, and without comment, to target my advice that she not worry about the threats made by her husband. I'd suggest this indicates that your ethical compass very clearly needs recalibrating.

Take a moment and consider the response had a Revivalist Pastor given the exact same advice to a member in the opposite position (i.e their spouse "isn't worth worrying about"…There would be outrage! But you hide in your dark little basement giving such damaging advice.....Disgracefull! Me? Hiding?! Since when, you goose? I post openly, and unlike you, I put my name to what I write. No 'basements' here, big fella. Howsaboutyou?

You sir, lack wisdom, care, humility and good judgement in giving such advice and the fact that you do not see it is to your shame. And you, sir, are clearly a self-righteous twit. Moreover, you're a twit who has failed to understand what I actually wrote.

When you have a spare moment take a wander through 1 Corinthians 7 and then consult Ephesians 5:25. Given your obviously poor level of reading comprehension, I'd suggest that you use a translation such as the 'Good News Bible' in the first instance. I fear that anything more overtly literate would likely 'stretch' you too far.

Goose.

Ian

I was simply addressing the utter stupidity and ignorance of your "He's not worth worrying about" statement/advice Ian... I was not giving an overview of all of the orthodox garbage you pedel here..for that I would be here all day. sigh

As far as my so called "self righteousness" well in the presence of darkness all light must seem bright. Again this is to your shame.

any how your attempt at sound biblical advice, come council is and has always been pathetic and naturalistic. You truly are lost

blind leader of the blind

serpent

mj

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Re:A tough call

Date Posted:06/07/2011 9:22 AMCopy HTML

Jingles,

I was simply addressing the utter stupidity and ignorance of your "He's not worth worrying about" statement/advice Ian... Re-read my posts again. Clearly you still don't get what I was saying. I was not giving an overview of all of the orthodox garbage you pedel here..for that I would be here all day. sigh. 'Sigh' alright. It seems you don't understand what's implied by the word 'orthodox'. But I would like to see you attempt to refute the supposed garbage you believe I 'peddle'.

As far as my so called "self righteousness" well in the presence of darkness all light must seem bright. Again this is to your shame. Comparing your 'farthing candle to the sun'? But really?! 'Shame'? Try 'embarassment', it's a much better fit describing what I feel about you.

any how your attempt at sound biblical advice, come council is and has always been pathetic and naturalistic. You truly are lost. Hmmm. Your quip: '...anyhow your attempt at sound biblical advice cum counsel ...' aside, do you honestly believe the sort of interpretation that you and your ilk engage in is 'spiritual'?! Furthermore I can hardly be accused of being 'lost' when I consistently demonstrate that I'm not only capable of reading the 'map' properly, but also of being able to navigate, 'map-to-ground'. You, on the other hand, struggle identifying the 'marginal information' nevermind demonstrating that you can orient the 'map' correctly: you're heading 'south' but you vocally maintain that you're actually heading 'north'.

blind leader of the blind. Well, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see, I suppose. It's funny, despite your protestations I'm not the one who is constantly bumping into things ;)

Goose.

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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