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Date Posted:29/06/2008 5:42 AMCopy HTML

This is a post for those who love the people in RCI and who want RCI to continue and grow and change for the positive.  This is NOT a post for negative comments, but for encouraging Simon Longfield to get on with the massive task he has ahead of him if he is to properly administer the RCI and re-ignite and re-enliven it.

Simon,

I have met with you on many occasions, and I know that you are an intelligent and caring person, and I am convinced that you are as honest as the rest of us, and sincerely care for the RCI and it's members.

Since leaving the RCI, I have been opened up to the wider church community and the Ex-Revival community and let me assure you that a lot of the negative comments in this website and elsewhere are also coupled with fond memories and goodwill also.  We are very concerned with the current condition of RCI, and you are the only one who can turn this around. 

I can only pray for you and encourage you to be brave and visionary and make some positive changes to RCI, because if you do not, the flame might go out altogether.

I encourage you to please update the music.  Those choruses are really awful once you have experienced the better theology and sound of Hillsong, Nikki Chiswell and other really good worship music that most of the rest of Australia have moved on to.  Those choruses are really cringe-worthy.

I encourage you to seperate the Longfield Trust and other venture from RCI, and start making available openly and transparently the church financial records, not begrudgingly or by appointment or by having to ask someone to see them, but make them available in the airlock for all to take home a copy at all times, and also make copies available at the yearly accounting periods.  The congregation should not have to ask, they should not be left wondering, they should be able to take copies whenever they want to without having to ask for it, or be in any fear of ramifications for wanting to see the chuches records.

I encourage you to make better application of confession in the RCI.  There are so many folk in RCI that are racked with guilt that they just should not be.  There are older members of the church who are carrying the burden of guilt for silly things that they did 20 years ago - stupid things like flashing brown-eyes and things they did when they were young, and they do not have a clear conscience before God..  How on earth can the revival flame keep burning when the congregation have a burden of guilt on their shoulders?  They should not have to tell a house leader or Pastor any confession in order to have a clear concience to God.  They should be able to on a weekly basis be able to confess to God all things on their conscience and have their concience sprinkled clean.  In the 14 years in Revival I did not experience the cleansing of my conscience until I left and went to another church.  I had in that 14 years in RCI hear from people every week of their conscience being burdened. 

I encourage you to ease up on the strictness of the RCI guidelines.  Many of them are just uneccesarry.  Guidelines should be exactly that - guidelines, not strict enforcable rules that need to be enforced by threats and such.  Many RCI folk have replaced thier own rational volition and excerise of self control to the legalism of guidelines.  It took me 18 months after leaving RCI in order to excercise self control in all areas of my life when I became no longer subject to the legalism of the guidelines. 

I encourage you to put Brittish Isreal to the back-burner just as you did with numerics.  I also encourage you to open up the bookshop with more soundly structured materials, and encourage the congregation to grow and learn and be guided by the Holy Spirit, rather than being fettered with the guideline of not having any material outside the bookshop.

I encourage you do this quickly before things get worse.

Yours sincerely and in the love of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit,

Paul Miles.

Anyone else who wishes to positively encourage Simon Longfield, please post here.

Please show the love of Jesus when doing this in this post, and leave bitter arguments to other threads and posts.

I invite you Simon, to answer if you want to. 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:30/06/2008 3:49 AMCopy HTML

Who cares about choruses?
If people are so concerned about choruses they should buy some CD's and play it during the week.
Choruses dont make a church, or they shouldn't anyway.

One thing I have never understood is why people want to see the financial records or RCI. I know people who have had issues with RCI's finances and left, I just dont understand why?
Why should one care about the finances, RCI has a business side and if it opened up its financial records to the public it could open up a can of worms for many reasons.  If people are so concerned about where their money is going then dont tithe, give money to UNICEF or world vision.

These things you mention are peripheral things which dont worry a person who is walking in the spirit.

I think when one guides themselves they no longer need the guidelines. This is the goal of the guidelines, so that the young people are directed in a way thet is good for them, and can guide themselves.  The gestapo mentality is a thing of the past and the RCI look to guide moreso than punish.  Although their reputation of old lingers, it is not the case anymore.

I think you have been out of the loop for a while my friend.

Concerning B-I, once again I think the individual is able to either make their own decisions, if one wants to study it let them if not thats fine also.  I have never heared it preached, which shows just how old your point of view must be, sorry if i sound like im having a go at you, im not.

The RCI is in no danger, so please dont try and make something out of nothing.  Every spirit filled person is an individual and we come together collectively, some choose RCI, some choose elsewhere, and it dosent matter where as long as the individual is walking in the spirit and loves the Lord.

By the way I am not Pr Simon.

Thanks


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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:30/06/2008 6:07 AMCopy HTML

Hi there, Loin

Who cares about choruses? If people are so concerned about choruses they should buy  some CD's and play it during the week. Choruses dont make a church, or they shouldn't anyway. True enough. But singing is one aspect of Christian corporate praise and worship, and we should care about the types of 'things' we sing. After all, choruses pretty much do function as popular theology for the masses, so we probably should give a rip about what's sung in church.

One thing I have never understood is why people want to see the financial records or RCI. I know people who have had issues with RCI's finances and left, I just dont understand why? Two reasons: transparency and accountability.  Something which apparently is expected to run in only the one direction in the RCI: from the ground up! Why should one care about the finances, RCI has a business side and if it opened up its financial records to the public it could open up a can of worms for many reasons.  If people are so concerned about where their money is going then dont tithe, give money to UNICEF or world vision. Perhaps there is a very real risk (and concern) that the "flock" might be in the process of being "fleeced"?

These things you mention are peripheral things which dont worry a person who is walking in the spirit. Okay, so what you're implying is that if a person is concerned about these things, then such a one clearly isn't walking in the Spirit? I think when one guides themselves they no longer need the guidelines. This is the goal of the guidelines, so that the young people are directed in a way thet is good for them, and can guide themselves.  The gestapo mentality is a thing of the past and the RCI look to guide moreso than punish.  Although their reputation of old lingers, it is not the case anymore. Bollocks.

Concerning B-I, once again I think the individual is able to either make their own decisions, if one wants to study it let them if not thats fine also.  I have never heared it preached, which shows just how old your point of view must be, sorry if i sound like im having a go at you, im not. The fact of the matter is this: BI is taken to be "gospel" truth in your fellowship, and the theory underpins a very large part of how your "church" interprets Scripture. As such it simply isn't as incidental as you maintain, it's actually of pivotal importance. The RCI is in no danger, so please dont try and make something out of nothing.  Every spirit filled person is an individual and we come together collectively, some choose RCI, some choose elsewhere, and it dosent matter where as long as the individual is walking in the spirit and loves the Lord. Again, bollocks. One either is in, and a part of the Church of God, or one isn't. There is no mediating position. The RCI preaches a false gospel, believes and promotes false teachings, and as such has no part in the Body of Christ. You fellows are in considerable danger.

By the way I am not Pr Simon. And who was it that suggested you were?

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:02/07/2008 6:31 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

I appreciate your reply but it is sad you totally missed the point.  You took each part out of context, maybe to get a reply, maybe to annoy me or perhaps because you are an ignoramus, in this instance its all three.

My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the tithe bag is not of importance.  They have given from the heart, to the church, if the church abuses that then thats on them.  If people are that worried about where their money is going DONT GIVE IT.  Its a simple solution.

If a persons focus is on minor issues like chourses and finances and they get up in arms about them they probably have more have deep seeded issues.

Its all quite simple - as God would have it, and people can complicate their walk by focusing on money, and as we know love of it is the root of all evil, if one makes a churches finances their focus they complicate matters un-necessarily.
The most important thing in this issue of church finances is that it is all based on the assumption that the oversight abuse it. 
The RCI never begs or asks for money.  Have you ever seen one of those religious shows begging for money and promising blessings from money? well thats thd benchmark and definition of - as you say "fleecing".

So bollocks is all you have to say to my guideline theory? any reasons or does it just hit home too hard and you cant break that one down?

Mate it sounds like you are more clued in on the RCI than me.  I thought we used the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture and understand what the bible is saying.  To be honest I know next to nothing about BI and it doesnt underpin any of my understanding, the spirit does.

Your correct on one thing though, you are either in or not in the church, that does not mean RCI or any other organisation, when the Lord returns the organisation will not meet him in the air, but many individuals all fellowshipping in organisations and some not fortunate enough to have people to fellowship with, in any case all those doing gods will and walking in the spirit will meet him when he returns, is that wrong?
Just because one belongs to an organisation does not mean they will not meet the lord in the air, its about what they are doing and their mindset as the individual.

I hope you dont fail to understand this post, if so let me know and I can try to draw pictures for you to understand.

Oh and by the way, the topic is "letter to pastor simon" and I didnt want people think I am when im not, so once again I stress I am not pastor simon.

enjoy

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:02/07/2008 2:24 PMCopy HTML

PMSL... oh, that's harsh. Harsh Ian but, Holy Cowamondo, Revival churches are truly the religious equivalent to the unfortunate winners of the Darwin Awards - http://www.darwinawards.com/. I take it from the attitude that Sir Loinsalot is in his teens. I hope Simon Longfield does read this at some point, although I wonder if it'll all go straight over his head too.

Remember a time when giving swags of money over to smiling men with ties, thinking it was a burnt offering to god in the hope for a prosperous financial reward seemed like a good idea? Remember when thinking Revival churches were 'The Church'? Remember giving teenagers a nice long list of rules to follow? Remember pretending to love singing the same old little chorus ditties a billion times? Unreal... and it's unreal that Sir Loin Cloth is actually shaking his head while reading this and wondering why on earth people would not be pro-Revival. Another mystery huh.

British Israel is still a major part of RCI beliefs and is prominantly displayed on the website... not hidden at all. How rather embarrassing for them. Either they turned a blind eye to their fundamental doctrines being historically disproven or someone forget to delete the website - http://www.rci.org.au/bible_studies/index.htm - How long have you been in Revival anyway? Yes, it does seem people here are more 'clued' up on your own church than you are.

Hey Not Pastor Simon dude, could you draw me a picture to help explain your future posts... use crayons, scan it in, we'll all have a good laugh, and praise the lord anyway. It seems that many commentators are accusing each other of poor english comprehension skills this week, so yeah, diagrams and pictures might help.

Sorry MrKm, this forum is not for people who want the RCI to continue and grow. I'm sure it will continue but would be sorry to see it grow. And as for your request for non-negative comments, well... that's all relative. Anyone who truly cares (or 'loves') the people in RCI would be encouraging them to see it for what it is 'cause, as you can see in this thread, most of them don't even realise they have a problem in the first place.

[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:12/07/2008 7:08 AMCopy HTML

OK,

I confess that this posting by me was an intentional red herring ( for those who did not work that out by themselves - ahem loin chop).

Not that the things I said in it were not true......

Regards Mr K. 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:12/07/2008 1:28 PMCopy HTML

REPLY TO BROLGA......"Well, easy come easy go" 

PSL used that exact phrase when not wanting to deal with a problem that would cause harm to people forcing them to leave, he has no respect, no care, no compassion and no concern towards the people- he is an abomination.

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:12/10/2008 7:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Sir_Loin

Ian,

I appreciate your reply but it is sad you totally missed the point.  You took each part out of context, maybe to get a reply, maybe to annoy me or perhaps because you are an ignoramus, in this instance its all three.

My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the tithe bag is not of importance.  They have given from the heart, to the church, if the church abuses that then thats on them.  If people are that worried about where their money is going DONT GIVE IT.  Its a simple solution.

If a persons focus is on minor issues like chourses and finances and they get up in arms about them they probably have more have deep seeded issues.

Its all quite simple - as God would have it, and people can complicate their walk by focusing on money, and as we know love of it is the root of all evil, if one makes a churches finances their focus they complicate matters un-necessarily.
The most important thing in this issue of church finances is that it is all based on the assumption that the oversight abuse it. 
The RCI never begs or asks for money.  Have you ever seen one of those religious shows begging for money and promising blessings from money? well thats thd benchmark and definition of - as you say "fleecing".

So bollocks is all you have to say to my guideline theory? any reasons or does it just hit home too hard and you cant break that one down?

Mate it sounds like you are more clued in on the RCI than me.  I thought we used the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture and understand what the bible is saying.  To be honest I know next to nothing about BI and it doesnt underpin any of my understanding, the spirit does.

Your correct on one thing though, you are either in or not in the church, that does not mean RCI or any other organisation, when the Lord returns the organisation will not meet him in the air, but many individuals all fellowshipping in organisations and some not fortunate enough to have people to fellowship with, in any case all those doing gods will and walking in the spirit will meet him when he returns, is that wrong?
Just because one belongs to an organisation does not mean they will not meet the lord in the air, its about what they are doing and their mindset as the individual.

I hope you dont fail to understand this post, if so let me know and I can try to draw pictures for you to understand.

Oh and by the way, the topic is "letter to pastor simon" and I didnt want people think I am when im not, so once again I stress I am not pastor simon.

enjoy

Liony,

I agree with what you have said.  I think the greatest thing an individual has is the chance to have a relationship with God without any other numpty having any bearing or effect on it.  However, it is people like ourselves who are ok.  There are people in RF and RCI who do not have the luxury of the wisdom that we do.  I would hope what you mentioned would be common knowledge in the church, but it is not.  This sums it up in a nutshell:  My sister is 24yrs old and has attended RF all her life.  She has just left.  Problem: She doesn't know god from a bar of soap.  There are those who fear God and those who don't.  Those who don't stuff it up for a lot of innocent people.   What an abomination in the sight of the Lord.   We need to share wisdom. Wisdom is ESSENTIAL.

By the way i don't go to RCI.  What is up with that morality policy?  That is so far from the bible it isn't funny.  How do they not see that?

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:14/10/2008 7:48 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo

 (My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the bag is not of importance)

Sir_Loin,

You are quite right - the money that goes into the bag is of no importance whatsoever.  In my years in RCI/RF I have seen the bag passed from hand to hand with very little given, hardly enough for the pastor's lunch money.  So where does the money come from to finance pastor's salaries, new halls, campsites, conventions,  pastors' trips to visit overseas assemblies?  Certainly not from the meagre "tithes" and offerings bags.  

 Well, I asked family members and they were, without exception, tight lipped on this subject - giving no information away.   I can only assume that there must be some behind the scenes agreements (once one becomees established in Rev) whereby amounts were paid directly to the pastor or a bank account.

Assuming this to be the case and the pastor (often being the sole keeper of the books) in my opinion would have a moral duty to have keep records, hold audits and open the books for inspection, at least to the elders of the church.  Also to seek wise counsel in making decisions concerning how the church funds are spent.  This, also, so that he himself is protected.

If there is any form of accountability, no-one seems to know about it.

Epi









I would challenge all you posters to take the adventure of exploration of undertaking a word study of the Greek word behind the English translated word:    " stewardship "..

That is, ALL posters with the exception of Didaktikon who is already there !!

smiley31
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 6:04 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Episkopeo

 Reply to Disciple on "stewardship"

I will take your advice and study the Greek meaning of the word.   That is the word I should have included in the context of my post.  Nothing really belongs to us we all stewards.

Epi  




Hi Epi,

I commend this particular passage from the ESV,

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for yoursake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Crist's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints "  Colossians 1:24.

But the parable that speaks volumes is Luke 16:2

thanks sister

Disciple

ps the ESV is a pretty good and reliable translation and I think the closest match I have found that aligns best with the Greek NT.

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 9:55 AMCopy HTML

Hi all! I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord. How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him. And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! God Bless!
MothandRust Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 10:06 AMCopy HTML

 Awww, that sounds super. Good for you!
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 10:32 AMCopy HTML

Hi all! I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord. How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him. And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! God Bless!


Obviously written by some one who either
A) Wasent ripped off  by Glen Duker with Paster Siomen supporting Glen or
B) Has just recieved payment from Glen Duker or
C) Dident have enought pocket money to invest with Glen Duker. 

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 10:48 AMCopy HTML

Well how-the-heck-are-ya, Guest?

I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord. Well, what can I say? That's just peachy! Me? I'm just a plain ol' devoted follower of the Lord. How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him. Aahhh. So that's how we discern the "real deal"--pragmatism! Funny, but I always thought that we had to appeal to Scripture, or sumfin'.

And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! I'm certain that he is, and that you do/

God Bless!

You too, Opie.

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:16/10/2008 10:25 PMCopy HTML

 Clearly "Guest" is having a laugh.... such a person does not exist... the only happy RCI er was stuffed and mounted years ago.
 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 6:18 AMCopy HTML

Reply to is_aimoo_guest
 I am a devoted follower of RCI

And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way!

Claiming to be a devoted follower of RCI, what a disturbing admission. My immediate thoughts were- I am a jealous God- Have no other Idols- Let God be true and every man a liar. 
To claim to be a follower of RCI and not have claimed to be a follower of Christ is just so sad.
But it is that blind ignorant obedience that  RCI's survival depends upon - worse luck! 
and most of us have been there in some degree.

Obviously in all your devotion and admiration of PSL, you have not realized that you are actually in the minority group of RCI PSL supporters. 
There are  few in the Oversight that hold him personally with any respect, the respect is for  being  Longfields son and the mantle appointed by his Father. 
There is quite a growing revolt of Pastors and members who want him removed. 
You say you respect him in every way. Do you know him in every way- I know you don't, if you did you couldn't claim such rot.
Maybe you should get to know and experience the actual man, you might see things in a different shade of rose!
things are not what they appear.

Your precious Pastor is just a man living an extravagant second life style behind the scenes, his father successfully fashioned an empire  for his family to be kept in position above reproach, power and wealth. 

Don't be shocked when things start to get uncomfortable for him, he will bail and leave you all high and dry wondering what the hell happened.

I hope when you do open your eyes you can get over the disappointment that awaits you.



As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 8:14 AMCopy HTML

Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho)
Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!)
www.awm.org.au  God Bless you
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 8:33 AMCopy HTML

Guest,

Yessss. And everything that you mentioned in your post has set the "alarm bells clanging"!

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 8:52 AMCopy HTML

Reply to is_aimoo_guest

Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho)
Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!)
www.awm.org.au  God Bless you

Big claim in the pastors Blog  No warts on the body of Christ here  a
And the what we believe blurb doesn't really say anything of any significance.
These days I tend to listen to what isn't said more so than what is said- if you know what I mean!!!
My alarm bells are ringing a similar tune


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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 9:12 AMCopy HTML

Oops!!! forgot to Log in....again! Sorry, Ooe

Reply to is_aimoo_guest

Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho)
Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!)
www.awm.org.au  God Bless you

Big claim in the pastors Blog  No warts on the body of Christ here  a
And the what we believe blurb doesn't really say anything of any significance.
These days I tend to listen to what isn't said more so than what is said- if you know what I mean!!!
My alarm bells are ringing a similar tune




As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 11:12 AMCopy HTML

whoa there tonto ! I haven't been to THIS church yet (but I'm gonna try it out) sounds really interesting. Yes I STILL believe much of what was taught in RCI but I am over the British/Israel thing and other stuff, however, I'm not ready to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'.
I've spoken to the Pastor there and listened to a couple of cd's he sent me, very refreshing I must say.
Anyways, peace out & take care brothers.

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 12:41 PMCopy HTML

Thanks buddy I'm looking at leaving rci soon due to the nonsense going on there after 5 years of obedient service
does anyone else know of any other churches that preach Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine. The Carrum Downs place sounds good but is at the wrong end of town for me and the kids, but Id still feel more comfortable for my wife and boys to attend a church that preaches at least that,  the rest I can take or leave.

Thanks

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:17/10/2008 8:15 PMCopy HTML

I'll let you know what I thought after going there this Sunday, I've been searching for awhile now and wasted lots of my Sundays to be quite honest, attending differn't ones. I don't know, I'm a bit excited about this one for some reason (enough to travel from where I stay anyway)
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 12:30 AMCopy HTML

Good luck with it.
We take a "three times your out" approach.
If my 'alarm' bells have been  significantly activated 3 times and we're not satisfied with the reasoning, We  move on.
We are very cautious now, but I would rather be still in the looking phase than have my family trapped in a situation like RC's.
One place we went to seemed friendly and enthusiastic, but to me it was just a little too ordered. It was nothing that I initially witnessed it was just this gut instinctive feeling I had. After a few weeks I heard the Pastor talking about these people and how they were so teachable and a pleasure to God because they were willing to not question but obey their Pastor with out question""DING" STRIKE 1-Dont think
The next was listening to a "sunday school teacher tell kids some as young as 2 & 3 year olds to ignore their friends and lift their hands and praise God and then laid this guilt trip on them about their attitude and whether they give priority and preference to God""DING""DING" STRIKE 2-Manipulation/guilt
The next was the Pastor saying if you want to question my preaching you come prepared come with your Greek and references, because I put so much  research into my preparation of talks. You better come prepared! "DING""DING""DING" STRIKE 3- Dont question my Authority
Some places we visited once and we knew clearly it wasn't for us, other times it's been 12 months and  It's slowly been realized that our future wasn't in that particular group. 
We are presently attending an smallish AOG, for the first time in years we actually feel connected and ready to let people back in. It's only been a few months but so far so good- I havn't heard any bells ...yet!!!

As I hear it, I'll repeat it, Its up to you if you believe it! Allegation big and small, soon revealed before us all. outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 2:53 AMCopy HTML

Hiya, Guest.

Thanks buddy I'm looking at leaving rci soon due to the nonsense going on there after 5 years of obedient service does anyone else know of any other churches that preach Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine. Hmmm. So the wrested Acts 2:38 must-speak-in-tongues-to-be-saved isn't the nonsense that's causing you to leave the RCI? Well, it should be.

The Carrum Downs place sounds good but is at the wrong end of town for me and the kids, but Id still feel more comfortable for my wife and boys to attend a church that preaches at least that,  the rest I can take or leave. Unfortunately, the bit that you wish to "take", is precisely the bit that you should "leave". After all Paul himself assures us in Galatians that those who preach a false gospel are destined for absolute destruction. The Revivalist take on "salvation" is just such a "gospel".

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds as if you're getting ready to jump out of the "frying pan" only to land in the "crock (as in, "of poop") pot"! I'd recommend that you reconsider. Leave the RCI by all means, but when you do, try to go to a Christian church afterwards.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 5:45 AMCopy HTML

From what I've gathered so far, this church in Carrum Downs does NOT believe one MUST s.i.t. to be saved, it is simply something one CAN do once they are saved.'Apparently' they also believe that salvation is absolutely by grace alone, not by ANY works.One of the cds' the pastor sent me basically talked about the '5 crowns' ? handed out to faithful believers at the return of Jesus Christ, these crown rewards being faithfulness related but nothing to do with salvation.
The pastor also mentioned they lead anyone who has the desire 'into' s.i.t. and when that individual is ready, they can show them how to interpret their tongues, prophesy and the rest of the gifts as well.
I must say, I am intrigued.Oh, they also believe that the dead are dead til Christ returns (one of those things that are an absolute for me) :) I dunno, I've been very disappointed with most of the churches in my area I've tried (including an AOG one) where the pastor called me up after I mentioned to someone I had been in RCI, accusing me of being a trouble-maker and daring me to take on a 'holy-spirit filled' man ! What a plonker...
Don't worry, I will put this pastor of Another Way Ministries through his paces (in a positive way) before I 'commit' any of my time and energy, but, heck, I'm just excited to be going to see them tomorrow
BTW, many thanks for your concern Ian, bless ya, Phil  
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 2:55 PMCopy HTML

Thanks for that outaegypt Ill have a look at the AOGs, I remember Pastor Geoff Beggs putting them down during the meeting one Sunday, I sorta figured that he wouldn't do it unless they were a serious threat or offered a viable alternative, Ill have a look around on my side of town.
Ill ignore the comments from that other bloke, is he a moderator or something,???  unbelievable I thought people could come on here and express there opinions freely without fear of being put down by someone else.

 

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 8:37 PMCopy HTML

Hi Guest,

IMO you weren't being put down, rather your thinking was being challenged. But on a more serious note, you really do need to question the "
Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine." It really *is* a product of not reading the bible in context, and *is* what Paul would call "another gospel". (By the way, I say that after 30 year commitment to that doctrine.)

Eight years ago I thought of leaving "Revival" and considered alternative churches apparently using similar reasoning to yours. Fortunately my eyes were opened about 18 months ago to the fact that doctrine just ain't biblical and, worse, opposes what the bible says. By the grace of God I'm now bypassing the whole "tongues = baptism in the Spirit" cul-de-sac. (Edit ... on reflection the cul-de-sac seems to often be more of a dumpster containing all sorts of hidden nasties and serious pathogens just waiting to damage or retard one's Spiritual health.) Instead, I'm now looking at places where the "apostles' doctrine" is taught, recognising tongues as *one* of the "charismata".

While you're questioning, it would be a *very* useful exercise to study the material at www.pleaseconsider.info and if you engage with Ian consider the possibility that he just might know what he's talking about.

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:18/10/2008 11:25 PMCopy HTML

Hiya again, Guest.

Thanks for that outaegypt Ill have a look at the AOGs, I remember Pastor Geoff Beggs putting them down during the meeting one Sunday, I sorta figured that he wouldn't do it unless they were a serious threat or offered a viable alternative, Ill have a look around on my side of town. This may come as something of a shock, but Geoff Beggs is anything but informed on these and a whole raft of similar issues.
Yeah, I know that Geoff likes to be viewed as something of "the" RCI theologian, but to be honest, I've never found him to be a particularly reliable guide on matters "theological". He's simply just another stock-standard RCI pastor, one who sees only what he wants to see when he opens his Bible.

Ill ignore the comments from that other bloke, is he a moderator or something,???  unbelievable I thought people could come on here and express there opinions freely without fear of being put down by someone else. The "other bloke" would be me!
Whilst I'm certainly not a moderator here, I am the most informed person that you're ever likely to come across with respect to understanding both Revivalist doctrine on the one hand, and proper Christian teaching on the other. Understand that you're perfectly free to express your opinions here, just as I'm perfectly free to point out where they part company from reality. Just remember, not all opinions are "created equal".

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:19/10/2008 7:40 AMCopy HTML

Hi all, (Phil) here. Well, I finally got to try out www.awm.org.au  in Carrum Downs.There is only about 40 of em at that location, they also have a church in Aukland New Zealand and in Fiji ? also. The worship music was rather hillsongy with some interesting variations. What intrigued me the most was their service set up. They actually asked 2 or 3 to please stand, speak in Tongues AND interpret one after the other. It really was like something out of 1 Corinthians 14.
The Pastor taught on 'How Secure is our Faith ?' Wow, very articulated and very engaging. BTW, I asked him if I had his permission to post comments on here and he said "go for it, the good and the ugly" ! Well, the upshhot of it is there really  is no 'ugly' (at this point in time anyway) :)
I asked him why he doesn't have specific beliefs on his website and he said he would rather people 'get off their butts and come talk about them' face to face.I saw his point.Anyways, after a prolonged discussion, which he very patiently and graciously subscribed to (in which I took notes, this is what I'm recalling here from).
1/They believe in Salvation by grace alone, not by ANY works.2/ They believe EVERY person born again is able to be shown 'how to' s.i.t. AND how to interpret THEIR tongues (1 Corinthians 14:13 ) 3/That tongues are a sign one is definitely born-again, yet s.i.t. is not a prerequisite for being born-again.4/ They believe the dead ARE dead til Jesus returns.5/ They do not profess to believe in the 'Trinity' as such but believe that God is God and Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit is God (who is Holy and Spirit) and God gives His 'gift' of holy spirit to every person when they are born-again.They see the 'gift of holy spirit' more as the 'energized working of God'.This 'sat right' with me as someone who never could logically (or even illogically) explain the 'Trinity'
Anyways, point of the matter is to me on a 'wow' factor I gave them a 9.5...only reason I didn't give them full marks was when I asked the Pastor if I could share a testimony next week he asked me to wait a little while ?!
p.s. they give all people who tithe and offerings a comprehensive financial statement every 6 months 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:19/10/2008 8:44 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Phil.

Ian here.

If you accurately represented what the pastor explained, then the group in question is simply another heretical aberration of charismatic Christianity, albeit one that is, perhaps, closer in stripe to the 'Oneness Pentecostals' than the RCI. Perhaps you should ask the chap if they broke away from the United Pentecostal Church?

But if I were you, I'd be afraid ... very afraid.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:19/10/2008 12:26 PMCopy HTML

1/They believe in Salvation by grace alone, not by ANY works.2/ They believe EVERY person born again is able to be shown 'how to' s.i.t. AND how to interpret THEIR tongues (1 Corinthians 14:13 ) 3/That tongues are a sign one is definitely born-again, yet s.i.t. is not a prerequisite for being born-again.4/ They believe the dead ARE dead til Jesus returns.5/ They do not profess to believe in the 'Trinity' as such but believe that God is God and Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit is God (who is Holy and Spirit) and God gives His 'gift' of holy spirit to every person when they are born-again.They see the 'gift of holy spirit' more as the 'energized working of God'.This 'sat right' with me as someone who never could logically (or even illogically) explain the 'Trinity'
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Hello Phil, I hope you don't mind if I make a comment or two?  

Salvation IS by grace alone through Christ alone, I most definitely agree with that, but;
1) If speaking in tongues is a 'sign' that one is born again (although not a prerequisite) then presumably every single born again person WILL speak in tongues, is that what they're saying? 
2) Why does one have to be 'shown'  HOW to speak in tongues? If the gift of tongues is given by the Holy Spirit, then why does one have to be 'shown'  how to do it? It's either from the Holy Spirit or it's 'learnt' from man.
3) I think this is what you're saying - that they do not believe in the Trinity but believe that God is God, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy Spirit is God  (confusing!)
I'm not very good at explaining things and I may not have it quite right but this is how I see it;
While the word 'trinity' is not mentioned in the Bible, we know that God is three in one - there are three very distinct persons that make up the Godhead. Yes, I know that in RC/RF etc there was much confusion about the trinity.
The Holy Spirit is most certainly NOT just 'the energised working' of God. The Holy Spirit is the third PERSON of the Trinity and is not a 'force' or an 'energy', He is a person not an 'it' (although I had no idea of this while I was in RC/RF)
The following scriptures have helped me to better understand the Holy Spirit;

Qualities that a person has (which a 'force' or a 'thing' does not)
1) the Holy Spirit has intellect - 1 Cor 2:10
2) the Holy Spirit has knowledge - 1 Cor 2:11
3) the Holy Spirit has emotions - Eph 4:30
4) the Holy Spirit has a will and makes decisions - Acts 16:6
5) the Holy Spirit loves - Rom 15:30

Things only a person would do (a force or thing does not)
1) He teaches you things about God and about yourself - John 14:26
2) He tells the truth - John 15:26
3) He guides - John 16:13
4) He convinces - John 16:8
5) He prays for you - Rom 8:26-27
6) He commands - Acts 13:2

My understanding of the Holy Spirit has changed quite dramatically since my RF days - we focussed so heavily on the 'power' of the Holy Spirit without knowing him as a person. I had always associated or understood the Holy Spirit as simply the ability to speak in tongues. More importantly we focussed on the Holy Spirit so much that we didn't focus on Jesus. The Holy Spirit's mission is to reveal and point the way TO and lift up the name of Jesus.

I hope I haven't confused the matter even more for you - as I said, I'm not very good at explaining things. Please look up the scriptures I have mentioned above and see if you still think of the Holy Spirit as just a 'force'.

God bless, Urch
Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:19/10/2008 8:49 PMCopy HTML

Hi & thanks for the reply ! I've done my own study on the 'Trinity' & the 'Holy Spirit' & 'holy spirit' whilst in rci and to be honest I can't find fault with this pastors expository. I know for a fact that the greeks assigned 'gender nomination to many, many things just as many languages today still do for eg. the French have a 'table' that is assigned a feminine description whilst a 'desk' is in the masculine.
Even in the English language we'll sometimes refer to a ship or car as 'she' etc...
In Proverbs wisdom is referred to as a woman ! Is wisdom really a person ?
I actually did ask the pastor if they were breakoffs from something like one-ness pentecostals.No, they are part of a world-wide association of non-denominational biblical research, teaching & fellowship centres (many ministries, no hierachal structure) (his own words) VERY REFRESHING (my words !)
To be honest, I find that God being God, who is Holy and Spirit, and Jesus being the Son of God (subject to the Father) makes all the scriptures about the topic 'fit better' than to espouse that they are all the same but not the same ?!
But each to their own.
Concerning 'showing how' to s.i.t. yes, when asked about it, pastor showed me the actual scripture and to be quite honest, again, it FIT ! both doctrinally AND practically
I should really ask him if he would like to post on here, I know he's really busy, but this place has given me a real 'shot in the arm' spiritually speaking :) even though it's a bit of a distance I'm going back this Sunday.
God Bless ya's, love in Christ, Phil  
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:19/10/2008 10:36 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Phil.

I've done my own study on the 'Trinity' & the 'Holy Spirit' & 'holy spirit' whilst in rci and to be honest I can't find fault with this pastors expository. I don't doubt it. But then again, you've nothing to compare what you've recently heard against, except for your own personal opinions, huh? And for what it's worth, I think it very doubtful that you've much of an idea about the historic orthodox Christian teaching on the Trinity, or how such is absolutely vital to gaining a proper understanding of redemption and salvation, and its effects.

I know for a fact that the greeks assigned 'gender nomination to many, many things just as many languages today still do for eg. the French have a 'table' that is assigned a feminine description whilst a 'desk' is in the masculine. Indeed. And it's rather telling, therefore, that the words "Holy Spirit", being as they are neuter gender in Greek, attract masculine gender pronouns when used in the NT. In other words, the authors of the various NT books intentionally (and consistently) broke a fundamental grammatical rule, so as to clearly identify the Spirit's Person-hood. This stands completely at odds to the opinion that you've put forward, one which mirrors that of the Jehovah's Witnesses by the way, that "holy spirit" should be viewed as nothing more than the inanimate, "active force" of God. Oh, and by the way, this view is also heresy.

I actually did ask the pastor if they were breakoffs from something like one-ness pentecostals.No, they are part of a world-wide association of non-denominational biblical research, teaching & fellowship centres (many ministries, no hierachal structure) (his own words) VERY REFRESHING (my words !) Sure. They just "appeared" from out of nowhere one day, huh?
I trust that you're not really that gullible, although what you've written to date kind of demonstrates that you just might be. To be honest, I find that God being God, who is Holy and Spirit, and Jesus being the Son of God (subject to the Father) makes all the scriptures about the topic 'fit better' than to espouse that they are all the same but not the same ?! No doubt. But given that I understand Scripture much better than you do, would you be surprised to discover that I feel precisely the opposite? To be blunt(-er) for a moment, I wonder if you fully comprehend where the heresy of "modalism" leads.

Concerning 'showing how' to s.i.t. yes, when asked about it, pastor showed me the actual scripture and to be quite honest, again, it FIT ! both doctrinally AND practically. Yes. Most of the modern speaking in "tongues" stuff appears to be little more than a learned behaviour. Clearly, then, it doesn't stand in direct continuity to what Scripture describes, does it? After all, Paul refers to the subject as a "spiritual gift", the most minor of which, of course; but a "gift" nonetheless.

So, Phil, I reckon that you and the Currum Downs mob would make for a good fit. They're obviously seeking  to bolster their numbers with the biblically and theologically naive cast-offs of other doctrinally dysfunctional groups, and you seem to be more than happy to be led around by the nose, by people about which you know very, very little indeed! Consequently, I wish you happiness in your ongoing quest for doctrinal novelty.

Ian

P.S. If you can, please do try to get the "pastor" to post here, as I'd relish the opportunity to engage him in dialogue.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 2:01 AMCopy HTML

Not wanting to 'get your dandruff flying' Ian....but do you speak in tongues ? If so, do you know if it is genuine or just learned behavior ? If you do s.i.t. do you 'know' how to interpret or offer words of prophecy ? or do you go along with other 'theology' that says it died out with the apostles ??

This crowd on my FIRST ever visit SHOWED ME HOW TO s.i.t. PROPERLY AND INTERPRET. I KNOW MYSELF IT WAS/IS GENUINE. What more can I say ?? It's easy to knock something one HASN'T EXPERIENCED. But the deciding factor was the scripture flow and context that backed this up (I'm not in the habit of living by experience alone)

Concerning trinity doctrine and holy spirit, of couse there were forgeries placed in the Bible by King Jimmies boys during translation depending on what their thinking on these things were at the time.What is it, something like over 200 words & verses changed & altered before the 1611 A.V.
But one thing I clearly SEE as I READ...the first century church under the apostles guidance NEVER subscribed to this doctrine.

I don't doubt you (may) know more about scriptures than me (in fact you come across as a bit arrogant bro)
however, your answers to my first questions would give me more of an idea ?
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 3:16 AMCopy HTML

Phil,

It's good that you're wanting to base your beliefs on scripture, but might I point out the furphy you accepted regarding grammatical gender in the koine Greek and how that *actually* supports the personhood of the Spirit. If Mr Carrum Downs can get something like that so wrong, one has to question whether *anything* he says is reliable, and you evidently aren't in a position to evaluate the Greek text either. Personally, the deciding factor in my dropping the "Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine" "was the scripture flow and context that backed" *that* up .

Many, including yours truly *can* see the triune nature of God clearly flagged in the New Testament, and you might reflect on the discussions of the trinity as early as the ante-Nicene fathers rather than fuss about the late KJV. Our Revivalist experience of the Spirit as impersonal is what's deficient, not the understanding of God's nature termed "trinitarian".

To continue my previous metaphor, beware, your pursuit of tongues is leading you to ingest some truly pathological doctrine.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 4:25 AMCopy HTML

Hiya, Phil

Not wanting to 'get your dandruff flying' Ian....but do you speak in tongues ? If so, do you know if it is genuine or just learned behavior? If you do s.i.t. do you 'know' how to interpret or offer words of prophecy ? or do you go along with other 'theology' that says it died out with the apostles ?? First, I too am an ex-member of the RCI, so that should answer question one.
As to question two, given that "tongues" is such an insignificant issue with respect to my personal spirituality, the answer is largely moot! But to address question three, 'yes', I've been known to interpret "tongues" and to "prophesy". But can I ask a related question for you: did the "interpretation" from the Carrum Downs crowd give the impression of being from God to the congregation, or from the "tongues"-speaker to God? Anyway, the answer to your final question can be found at www.pleaseconsider.info

This crowd on my FIRST ever visit SHOWED ME HOW TO s.i.t. PROPERLY AND INTERPRET. I KNOW MYSELF IT WAS/IS GENUINE. What more can I say ?? Nothing I guess. All that you've offered has been your thoroughly subjective personal "feelings" on the matter, nothing objective and tangible. There has been no appeal to Scripture, no appeal to anything from the experience of the Church throughout history. Nothing ...

It's easy to knock something one HASN'T EXPERIENCED. Sure, but it's far easier to dismiss something that lacks any sort of biblical support. And to date, you've offered us none. But the deciding factor was the scripture flow and context that backed this up (I'm not in the habit of living by experience alone). Ya reckon? I happen to be something of a "fan" of Scripture being read in context myself. However, I've not seen you present anything that indicates the same to be true of you, or that what you claim above is, in fact, the case.

Concerning trinity doctrine and holy spirit, of couse there were forgeries placed in the Bible by King Jimmies boys during translation depending on what their thinking on these things were at the time. Rubbish. What is it, something like over 200 words & verses changed & altered before the 1611 A.V. Rubbish. But one thing I clearly SEE as I READ...the first century church under the apostles guidance NEVER subscribed to this doctrine. Wait for it ... rubbish.

I don't doubt you (may) know more about scriptures than me (in fact you come across as a bit arrogant bro) however, your answers to my first questions would give me more of an idea ? The "idea" is that you currently have no idea about any of this stuff; further, that you seem over keen to be "suckered" in to further heresy.

Your choice.

Ian

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 6:25 AMCopy HTML

Heya Ian, sorry, I 'presumed' you knew scriptures relevant to these cupla things mentioned ? 1 Corinthians 14 deals with the whole aspect of church service and the 'manifestations' of holy spirit. I just 'presumed' you knew that the word 'gifts' of the holy spirit is better translated 'manifestation'. KJV the word 'gifts' of the spirit is in italics, meaning of course there is no corresponding greek word.
1 Corinthians ch. 12 correctly labels these 'gifts' of the spirit as MANIFESTATIONS (something that can be seen or heard with the 5 senses).
As the Pastor said "there is only ONE gift, the gift of holy spirit and there are 9 'manifestations' of this gift which are the s.i.t. , interpretation of tongues, prophesy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits, faith, healing & miracles." He also says that EVERY born-again Christian has these 9 enablements once they are born-again.
To erroneously label them gifts gives rise to the WRONG doctrine that only SOME Christians can operate ONLY SOME of these 'gifts' SOMETIMES. The Pastor believes and teaches "All nine all the time" ! Now that's exciting !!
BTW...1 Corinthians 14 :4,5 "I would YE ALL spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied, for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh in tongues EXCEPT he interpret thet the church receives edifying.
verse 13 "Let him (or her !) that speaks in tongues pray (believe) to interpret !
verse 26,27,28 " How is it then brethren ? when ye come together, every one of you has a psalm (song), has a doctrine (teaching), has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.Let all things be done unto EDIFYING.If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most, by three, and that by course (in order) and let one (greek word 'heis' meaning that same one !) interpret (their tongues) as per v13 !
But if there be no interpreter (interpretation by the one who is speaking in tongues) let him keep silence in the church, let him speak to himself and to God. 
 Pastor also gave me a bookmark that lists at least 12 reasons and benefits of s.i.t. (with all corresponding scriptures) You seem to make it not to be that big a deal ? s.i.t. is the foundational 'manifestation' that all the other 8 'key off from' ! These 9 manifestations of holy spirit are 'the eyes & ears ' of the Christian Church

Man, I am SO EXCITED, Agape to you brother, Phil 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 6:37 AMCopy HTML

I discovered this site a short while ago and have had a bit of a read.

I really don't understand this forum or you people, What a crock. If you are all so bitter about your whole experience with the RCI/RF/S.I.T whatever, (why) dedicate so much of your time to coming and revisiting everything you hated, (Oh it's to help heal all those wounds). Farout people - Move on! - Or you'll waist more of your life looking backwards.

If you think you can find a place to be completely inline with the way GOD wants (which lets face it, is what the aim is) then that would be a miracle in itself. 

The fact is EVERY church / group has a FLESH & BLOOD HUMAN at the front who is supposed to be led by the spirit. But the problem will always be Human error, own ideas causing all sorts of garbage to go on.  Thats the whole reason there are so many churches / split offs. The one you go to is a split off.

Why don't you let it go and stop putting your own ideas in others heads. 

I particularly cant believe the D.T.M. What a waist of your life being a seat warmer spy and going just to keep the peace with family. Your pathetic!

To Ian, you proclaim to be the all knowing oracle on this crock, why don't you start up your own group so all your other Fan boys (Girls) on this site can learn all there is to be Arrogant. (Arrogance = 1 of the fruits doesn't it)? I hope for your sake you are right. No No -  my mistake - you are right,  how could you be wrong?

Your choice.

Brendan








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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 6:47 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Phil.

There's an old observation that you may be familiar with? It goes, "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see." The Bible says much the same thing when it comments, "the gospel is hidden to those who are perishing."

Sad but true, big fella; sad but true.

Ian

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 6:51 AMCopy HTML

Hiya, Brendan.

Spoken like a true Revivalist! But fear not, bloke, for I am right. Consequently, you should probably stop and think about the ramifications of this for a moment, after all where does that leave you?

Hoo, roo.

Ian

P.S. WRT your comment/question about me creating a church of my own, so as to feed my arrogance and pride, well you clearly have me confused with others. My surname is Thomason. It's not Longfield, Hollins or Kuhlmann.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 7:31 AMCopy HTML

Intreresting that this chapter 14 of first Corinthians (which deals with the whole tongues thing in godly and orderly manner and the proper handling of it all for a positive outcome) says in verse 38 "if any man prefers to stay ignorant let him be ignored"
Whats' upset you more ? the fact that you THOUGHT you knew, or the fact that someone else might have a better 'handle' on these things than you ?

You see Ian, the whole thing needs to fit or none of it will

Every person who gets' saved receives the gift of holy spirit (God is Holy and God is Spirit) and can only give what He is, holy spirit.

With that ONE gift comes the ability, enablement, to operate the NINE manifestations of the ONE gift

The only reason ALL who are saved do not operate tongues is many have not been properly shown how.

EVERYONE in this church in Carrum Downs has been fully instructed and is able to s.i.t AND interpret their tongues AND prophesy when called upon

I listened Ian, they were messages from or for God for that group of believers present. There was none of this personal prophesying rubbish that is often used manipulatively in some churches, it was all straight 'forth telling'

As the pastor said to me, God is big enough to tell you something first, He doesn't need to tell someone to tell you ! (another breath of...fresh air !) Unlike Bono, I've found what I'm looking for, hope you do too
 
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 9:41 AMCopy HTML

 "Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it"

Remember being sweet talked into Revivalism?

In the very least, such a duping should serve as a healthy learning experience.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 10:51 AMCopy HTML

Hiya, Phil.

Intreresting that this chapter 14 of first Corinthians (which deals with the whole tongues thing in godly and orderly manner and the proper handling of it all for a positive outcome) says in verse 38 "if any man prefers to stay ignorant let him be ignored" Whats' upset you more ? the fact that you THOUGHT you knew, or the fact that someone else might have a better 'handle' on these things than you ? If you honestly and sincerely believe such to be the case, then please, go on believing so.

You see Ian, the whole thing needs to fit or none of it will. Every person who gets' saved receives the gift of holy spirit (God is Holy and God is Spirit) and can only give what He is, holy spirit. With that ONE gift comes the ability, enablement, to operate the NINE manifestations of the ONE gift. The only reason ALL who are saved do not operate tongues is many have not been properly shown how. Okay. If "pastor" says so. EVERYONE in this church in Carrum Downs has been fully instructed and is able to s.i.t AND interpret their tongues AND prophesy when called upon. All 40 of them?! But seriously, I don't doubt this for one moment.


I listened Ian, they were messages from or for God for that group of believers present. There was none of this personal prophesying rubbish that is often used manipulatively in some churches, it was all straight 'forth telling. I thought so. The "interpretations" of the "tongues" were messages from God, huh? And in spite of this you don't see why that should give you "cause" to "pause"? Finally, before you go dismissing outright the possibility that prophecy can be directed towards the needs of an individual, you may care to refresh your memory regarding ol' Agabus and Paul. I think it's somewhere in the 21st chapter of Acts, from memory.


As the pastor said to me, God is big enough to tell you something first, He doesn't need to tell someone to tell you ! (another breath of...fresh air !)   I do wonder why he left us the Bible then? And why he gave us the spiritual gift of teacher? Unlike Bono, I've found what I'm looking for, hope you do too. I have.

Well, Phil, don't say that you weren't given plenty of warning! I leave you to your fate.

Hoo, roo.

Ian


email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 10:56 AMCopy HTML

Hello Phil

The gifts listed in 1Cor 12:4-6 are known as the Charismatic gifts and verse 7 identifies them as Manifestations that are available to all in the Body of Christ without exception and at the will of the Spirit.  The Spirit chooses one or another to exhibit a particular gift for the profit of all e.g. one may be given a gift of prophecy in order to communicate God's will and love to a local congregation. These gifts are understood to be manifestations given at the time of need for the purpose at hand. Every individual if open and willing to be used by the Spirit will eventually be used at the discretion of the Spirit.

Then there are the gifts listed in Ephesians 4:11 - individuals are called to take on administrative positions or roles eg apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors & teachers within the body of Christ for the edification of all. 

The gifts in Romans 12:1-4 are more operational in their application - they are given to everyone in one degree or another, everyone being able to teach, serve etc in various capacities and with varied effectiveness according to the measure attributed to each individual. God, being 'no respecter of person' metes out the 7 gifts to all individuals so that everyone can function equally serving one another for the benefit of all. 

That is my understanding of the three 'categories' of the gifts.

I'd be interested in hearing the scriptures for the 12 reasons for (and benefits of) speaking in tongues (I thought the purpose was to edify oneself). Also you seem to be saying that "speaking in tongues is the foundational manifestation" of all the other gifts? So one cannot operate in any of the gifts without speaking in tongues first?

Whilst I love your enthusiasm Phil, everything that we say (and do) needs to be backed up by scripture (in context of course).

Urch
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 11:03 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Urch.

That is my understanding of the three 'categories' of the gifts.

And whilst I love your enthusiasm too, you've missed the "side of the barn" by the proverbial "mile" with that lot!

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:20/10/2008 12:27 PMCopy HTML

I would like to welcome new users to the forum who are making their journey out of the Revival organisation, we enjoy hearing from you. It's our pleasure to make this forum available to you so that you may interact with the panel invited here to field your queries.

To properly distinguish one person from the other and to aid discussion, we ask that you please join the forum rather than using the blanket name of "guest". You can certainly remain anonymous, and you may also make use of the many functions available to 'normal' forum members.

Thank you for visiting and we hope you'll stay for a chat.

Moddy
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:21/10/2008 12:39 AMCopy HTML

Oh Phil,

Don't you recall how you were sold on the demonstrably false notion that considering the grammatical gender of koine Greek supports arguments "trinitarianism"? Doesn't that say *something* about problems with Mr Carrum Down's teaching and understanding of the bible, and doesn't it send up a red flag regarding your own discernment of that teaching and understanding of the bible?

Wouldn't it be wise to find a competent teacher of orthodoxy and allow him/her to present that case so you have something other than 5 years of Revivalism to compare with this oneness pentecostalism you're currently talking about?

BTW Have you asked them whether a baptism using the words/idea "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is valid? My bet is that you'll be told it's not valid.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:21/10/2008 12:42 AMCopy HTML

Phil,

Can't edit so ... please replace "supports arguments trinitarianism" with "supports argments *against* trinitarianism"

The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:21/10/2008 12:52 AMCopy HTML

Talmid, shalom aleichem.

It's probably best that you save your time, and your keystrokes. Phil clearly lacks "...eye's with which to see, and ears with which to hear" (although his obviously have been "tickled by others", of late). Anyway, he's be adequately warned; and in spite of a complete absence of any sort of biblical warrant for his new views, he seems quite determined to follow his current course.

His problem now.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:A message for Simon Longfield

Date Posted:21/10/2008 4:56 AMCopy HTML

 Brendan, are you a current revivalist or have you moved on?
RCI prophesies
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