Can I say, I really enjoy this room and the company. I have forgotten what it feels like not to believe in God. Part of me actually wants to suspend my belief and faith and just have wild worldly fun, lol.  I have lost a lot of faith, but mostly in people. God's great, but as far as supernatural omnipresent entities go... He really annoys me. Still... I like His book... sometimes.

I call myself a christian and go to church but I never pray. I can speak in tongues but am sick of doing it. I call myself a believer but have no desire to preach the bible to those around me. I like the bible, but I never read it.  Part of me feels guilty for not feeling like I should be trying to convert my co-workers. Save yourself, I have some ethics but am a cleptomaniac... I steal stuff if I can get away with it without guilt (office stationary, mp3s, and rich people's stuff). You may call me a hypocrite... but am just having a good fess up. I am a grumpy husband. I have never hugged my parents... I never want to, even though they are nice people.

Don't judge christianiy by me because I KNOW I'm not typical. My favourite colour is yellow and I love Star Wars. I was like this before I joined the Revival churches.

Asks the calf to the cow, "Mother, why do we follow this path that winds, twists and meanders so?".  Answers the cow, "Why do you ask?"

Mmmm, deep.

H&B

Thanks for the very honest post.  I am always attracted to posts that open up like that.  I would like to respond to you if I could...

Can I say, I really enjoy this room and the company. I have forgotten what it feels like not to believe in God. Part of me actually wants to suspend my belief and faith and just have wild worldly fun, lol.

Hmmm...  I would like to know what you define as 'worldly fun'?  Do you mean Revival definitions or what?  Perhaps you need to ditch some of that lingo and decide for yourself what is bad for you and what is simply escapism and distraction from the daily grind. 

It's good to let it off my chest to strangers, hope you don't mind. I am not a people person... don't really like 'em... unless they agree with me or praise my work, which they do. I also appreciate harsh criticism... any publicity is good for me.  I like the good looking ones. I think blonde, brunette and redheaded women are brilliant... plus all the other flavours. I don't like men and don't like being one but will keep this body until a proper replacement becomes available. I don't care if people don't like me... I have enought friends to try and understand. ummm... that'll do for now. (stares at screen for 3 minutes). I think I have mental problems but can't afford the therapy. I am good looking but need to lose some kilos. I love Star Wars  and hate tony Squires. I think sex is terrific and thankfully so does my wife.

Fair amount of self-depracation (sp?) there.  Are you aware of that?  I wonder if you picked that up in the RF or if they only capitalised on what was already there?  My mother is a controlling woman and the RCI capitalised on that (see not everything is the RCI's fault) in my life.

I call myself a christian and go to church but I never pray.

Me too except I don't go to church either.

I can speak in tongues but am sick of doing it.

Well, I can still do what the RCI/RF (and even AOG) called 'speaking in tongues'.  But I actually think it is a psychological phenomena.  There is a lot of good stuff to read about that when you're ready.  Mind you, I didn't come to this point until at least 10 years AFTER leacing the RCI.  And some people I know think they have a legitimate gift.  Its entirely subjective and who am I to argue subjectivity?  Whatever it is, I can do but don't.  It makes me feel uncomfortable...too much pain and history I think.

I call myself a believer but have no desire to preach the bible to those around me.

LOL!!!  Don't worry.  There are enough fanatics around to pick up your slack.  Let's face it, we are all special in God's eyes but not that important.  He can get by just fine without us.  There is a depth to what I am saying.  Do you really think God needs you?  Are you so amazingly important to him or are you just an egomaniac?  This is the elistist thing the RCI drummed into us.  That if we don't do what God wants then HE will fail.  LOL

I like the bible, but I never read it.  

Ditto.  I cant seem to get past all the baggage I carried.  I just feel so condemned when I read it.  All I hear is this harsh authoritarianism.  I have lots of non-cultist Christian friends who don't see the Bible that way at all.  It encourages them and they strive to be better ppl not feel weighed down by guilt. I envy them.

Part of me feels guilty for not feeling like I should be trying to convert my co-workers and snakechick. Ha ha. Save yourself, I'm on holiday. Bite me.

Again, where does this guilt come from?  Do you really think God expects that from you in light of all your recent dramas and stuff?  I think you deserve a rest my friend.  And if God is not graceful and loving with you then he isn't God.

I have high morals and ethics but am a cleptomaniac... I steal stuff if I can get away with it without guilt (office stationary, mp3s, and rich people's stuff).

Rich people's stuff?  LOL!!!  LIke what?

You may call me a hypocrite... but am just having a good fess up. ON the flipside; I help anyone who asks for it, anytime of the day or night. I drop everything (usually to feed my ego as I play the hero, nah that's not really fair, I love helping people actually) I love my kids, but am a lazy parent. I love my wife but I am a grumpy husband. I have never hugged my parents... I never want to, even though they are nice people.

More self-depracation (sp?)!!!!   Selah...

I smoke marijuana 2 weeks ago (medicinal experimentation)... You may think I am smoking now because I am reading what I just read and am laughing to myself... chuckling like a madman. Don't judge christianiy by me because I KNOW I'm not typical. I struggle with internet porn. I wonder if I am normal after all. I really doubt anyone is reading this far into the message so let me say this... I am lonely and unhappy because I don't like hanging out with christians and I can't stand hanging out with worldly people (i.e. alcohol and swearing). I've spent way too much time here when I've got other things to do. My favourite colour is yellow. I was like this before I joined the REvival churches.

Yeah, u have to rediscover who you were b4 the cult and then pick up from there.  Thats what I did.  It was challenging but very rewarding in the end. 

And dont beat urself up for the porn thing.  You think you're alone?  You know, for what its worth, once I gave myself full permission to surf porn I found that it bored me and I am more into chicks in bikins now.  LOL!!!  Seriously, its all about taboos and guilt.  I made it ok and am now not so driven to look at it.  I am not saying this the plan for all people (especially sex addicts...has anyone else seen the movie about Bob Crane of Hogans Heroes?) but it worked for me and I rarely visit tittie sites.  But if I do, no big deal.  Just tits.  I didnt make that decision in an attempt to stop.  I just stopped beating myself (LOL!!!) up over it and it just kinda faded out of my life.  Just my philosophy but it worked for me.  Now beer, thats an addiction I have...

Ok, thats my 2 cents...I hope I was as honest as you man.  Ta.

HJS

I do want a rest. I want a bloody rest. Part of me doesn't want the whispers to go around the local RF..."did you here he's not going to any church anymore... see I told you he lost the plot." In my new church I have been asked to pastor a housegroup. But I think it's time to admit... I don't really want to! I don't have to.  Right you are H, God will survive without me. I'm sick of alilenating possible new friends by labellling them worldly. Oh yes, and tongues, I am trying not to admit this 'amazing power of mine' in not very unique or amazing but rather a very repetitive string of syllables that seems to bore me stupid. We used to have prayer meetings on various nights that were just 60 minutes of group tongue praying. ROFLPMSL...lol - oh boy! When I think about the good television time I wasted.

Worldly entertainment - Strip clubs and lapdancing while drinking Jim Beam, smoking pot; swearing, listening to heavy metal rock and roll while reading Harry Potter. Haha...

Revival Entertainment - Pot Luck dinner nights; sitting in make shift hall 'restaurants' with your arms folded listening to musical items... then clapping heartily at the ones who really sing like shite (one day I'll say shit) but no one is realistic enough to tell them....

Its funny how God seems to be more believable when one's health is poor.  Anyone else noticed that? I dunno, i've been pretty sick for the last 25 months from an unidentifiable condition that really really really sux. Satan seems to be getting more believable. God... I hope he's bigger and better than my doubt.

Self-depracating - yes, I did pick up on that tone in my 'fessing. It's funny, most people who know me describe me as an eccentric extroverted quirky individual.

Well you know what they say...we only know ourselves by how we reflect off others.  Although we are all the centre of our own world, we can't often see ourselves.  That is not to say that inward reflection is a waste of time.  Its brilliant.  But the RF/RCI taught us to doubt ourselves and to rely on them to tell us what to believe.  Making a conscious effort to sort out your own beliefs and trust ing yourself in doing that is a major step in post-cult recovery.

I do want a rest. I want a bloody rest. Part of me doesn't want the whispers to go around the local RevFel "did you here he's not going to any church anymore... see I told you he lost the plot."

Its amazing how much of a hold they still have over us after we leave no?  You are out of the cult but the cult isn't out of you.  No, that's not entirely true.  I am sure you have shed a lot of the cult stuff.  But still, if you feel that way about how they think about you, perhaps you should look into ways of overcoming that.  Look around for some good self-help books that address these issues or even (gasp!) get some counselling.

In my new church I have been asked to pastor a housegroup. But I think it's time to admit... I don't really want to! I don't have to.

More than that, I reckon you shouldn't for your own sake and for the sake of those you would be leading.  Man, its not a slur on you to say you're not at all ready.  I am sure you are a competent, bright person, but take some time off and take care of you.  Once you are truly healed then you will make a better leader.

This site is influencing me. Right you are H, God will survive without me. I'm sick of alilenating possible new friends by labellling them worldly.

Yeah, i have found that non-religious people are often better people.  Having religion doesn't necessarily make you a better person and not having it doesn't make you worse.  The Bible doesn't command us to avoid people in the world.  In fact Paul tells us to be at peace with all men where possible.  Alienating yourself from people may make you feel more righteous but it doesn't actually do you, them or God any good.  It is entriely self-righteousness...the very thing Jesus commanded us to be wary of.

Oh yes, and tongues, I am trying not to admit this 'amazing power of mine' in not very unique or amazing but rather a very repetitive string of syllables that seems to bore me stupid. We used to have prayer meetings on various nights that were just 60 minutes of group tongue praying. ROFLPMSL...lol - oh boy! When I think about the good television time I wasted.

Yep.  It's a hard thing, especially after having made tongues the defining point of so much of our lives.  Take it slowly.  I know lots of ex-Revialists who still believe in speaking in tongues.  It doesn't matter whether you come to the conclusion that tongues are legitimate or not.  What matters is that YOU come to whatever conclusion you do.  What matters is that you are honest with yourself internally.  Most Christians believe that tongues is a non-essential issue anyway, so according to 95% of the church, it doesn't matter what you believe about tongues.  So don't get burdened by it.  Indecision about tongues is also just fine don't you think?  Like I said, it took me 10 years to some to the point where i realised my tongues experience was flawed.

Worldly entertainment - Strip clubs and lapdancing while drinking Jim Beam, smoking pot; swearing, listening to heavy metal rock and roll while reading Harry Potter.

Man, I know you're joking but I don't recall reading the words 'worldly entertainment' in the Bible.  There you go again with that Revival Centre lingo.

Revival Entertainment - Pot Luck dinner nights; sitting in make shift hall 'restaurants' with your arms folded listening to musical items... then clapping heartily at the ones who really sing like shite (one day I'll say shit) but no one is realistic enough to tell them....

LOL!!!  Entertainment?  More like torture.

hojusaram, I hope you're surviving the flu. Congrats on the bub to be. Is this your first bun in the oven? Made in China... make sure you keep the reciept! I have two kids. Boy and a girl; they are so beautiful. I got home from school today to find my little 6 year old boy had fallen off his bike and was grazed, cut, had a swollen lip and was quivering in pain. The first thing he told me through his sobs, with much difficulty, was that he made it through another level of his Garfield typing program previously to his bike ride. So brave. So beautiful. So innocent. I would die for this boy in a second if I had to. Kids are great, they give us the will to live and to share. God bless ya baby, hope you both enjoy the ride.

Thanks man.  I am really looking forward to meeting my child.  And I am over the flu. 

Ciao
HJS

I doubt I will ever stop checking in on this site anytime soon... I'm a creature of habit and I have a short list of websites I routinely check everyday. I dunno whether that's healthy or not but it works for me for now. I'm unemployed at the moment and am feeling like a bit of a drongo. (edit 2005 - am working now - full time teacher primary school)

When I left the Rev heads earlier this year it was like taking the blue pill (ala The Matrix) and sometimes I pine for the tight network of contacts I used to have. I am finding it vey hard to forget the close friends I had but then they make it easier by their attitudes to us. I recently bumped into the person who brought me along all those years ago and she had this to say (pretty funny actually); she looked at me very seriously, to my eyes, and said (in a way that only close friends would) "You stupid, stupid man... come back to fellowship... the Lord's returning soon and there's no time to waste" - pretty sad actually. I dunno if the Lord is returning one day, and I'm certainly not going to set my watch to the possibility.

Just recently, during a healing service at my new church (2006 edit - I don't go to churches anymore) where people were 'slaying' at the prayer line, I got into a semi-argument about the validity of the practice. DONT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF huh... BUT I was almost wishing that I remained in the familiarity of my old cult.  Back there I didn't have to practice using my emotions, I could just sit and stare like a zombie. there I was an expert... there, someone told me what to believe... there I had a place... there I was the big man on campus. There I had much supper. Would I ever go back though... not on your Nelly! As Mel Braveheart once said "If you haven't got your freedom, it's all for nothing"... or something close to that.

I missed out on a good employment opportunity recently because of some bridges I burnt when leaving the Rev Heads... I shouldn't have made such a big noise when I left, but I was so passionate about declaring my disdain for all things Revival that I threw out some wisdom... thems the brakes hey?

I still remember our experience. I came to the RCI at 16, and met my now husband at 17. Boy, was I young and naive!. Anyway, after we were "pastorised" (don't you just love that term!!) we were told, don't rush as we , well me so young. Anyway at first things were OK, we were very good children!  But soon, we did the deed. But it came at a price. Feelings of tremendous guilt, having to lie , sneaking around etc. We actually managed to get married without being caught, but what of should have been a joyous first wedding night was fraught with guilt. I hoped that we wouldn't be found out...

It wasn't until a YP camp a few months later that we confessed. Pastor Darryl gave a angry talk about fornicators, and people covering this up. At this time, I finally cracked. I told all. I had to ask my parents for forgiveness, I had to apologise for lying, and never tell anyone else!. For the first few years of marriage I felt so much guilt. As we were already married, we were put out of YP for 6 months. We didn't really mind, we could spend time for ourselves.

Ironically, two senior pastors children fornicated, were ordered to marry, and a few years later, divorced.

We have now been married for nearly 21 years, and are going strong.

yo heatand serve... i feel your pain man... and we WERE over 17... funnily enough, not making it official must have given it all that passion... plus all the 'we should do this' shit i kept bringing up. damn, i messed up a lot of 'companies' by getting pissed-off at how hot it was.

damn, i miss keeping some of those companies... those were the days, my friend. we got busted 'straddling' in the middle of the city, though... spies EVERYWHERE. the spy was a bit of a promiscuous on in her time too, though... jealous b*****!

Well of this all, you'd just think that RCI would get a brain... they are already on the cult-ish side so why don't they just say people aren't allowed even to keep company until they are 21

It's almost as though they get turned on by it.  They set an age where you are ONLY JUST out of puberty( I think! I don't remember my bio - soz!) an age where you are totally rebellious, immature and not even at an age to get married even if you were "burning" and wanted to "do the right thing by Simon... I mean God"

Also, of all the churches I have been to over the years never can I recall one that gave so many opportunities for males and females to be in "dodgy" places together.  It's almost as though the leaders are Satan just trying to get you to fuck up - literally - so they can exert their power over you - and listen to all the juicy details for later when their wives just aren't doing it for 'em!

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I have just been listening to this gem of a recordinghttp://rc.cultweb.net/archive/wavs/wavnsw.ra on rc.cultweb.net.Some points strike me as unusual1) Lloyd Longfield has no idea of the meaning of the word "fornication".. Fornication simply means sexual intercourse between two unmarried people and therefore LL's prooftexting mania ranting is baseless!! completely!!2) This recording is overwhelming proof that LL uses fear to control the Pastors in the RCI. In other words the RCI pastors fear

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As an effective church in the Western world, THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP isn't looking too good. Of course the drying up of converts in the Western world will be interpreted as a symptom of "the last days". The RCI, Geelong Revival Centres, and the miniscule CAI will also be saying the same thing.Four superiority complex ridden groups, all declining, none of them talking to each other, all rubbishing each other

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I wonder how they explain away the growth happening in many other pentacostal (and other) churches around the place. Some of my Christian friends from (shock horror) other churches are rejoicing in the amount of new people, especially youngies, filling up the seats in their congregations.

 And mother said I'd never amount to anything! This is going to be very self-indulgent mostly pointless, and all the rest so readers beware. Not sure whether to be proud of myself or full of sorrow for ten thousand lost minutes.. but it pays not to count like that... if I added up the amount of hours of my life I'd spent watching the Simpsons, Happy Days and MASH, I think I'd do away with myself with sharp instruments while driving fast. Anyhoo... maybe I'll shut up a little now that I've got to the grand mark.

On this momentous (haha) ocassion I'd love to thank some of the online people, friends and aquaintances who helped me through my transition from Revival life into normal life. I might even take the time to remember the regulars and former regulars while I take a walk down memory lane. If I miss someone it's either completely accidental or wholely purposeful. The Rust part of MothandRust knows who she is and I thank her for sticking by me through hell (ha.. hell.. been there, done that!)

Mr Te - My Northern hemisphere doppleganger. What can I say? A dedicated man and a voice of reason in a sea of idiocy... something like that. Thank you for your trust and for always being there with an answer. A true and tried online friend and I've always been a big fan of your work...

Joey - (infrequent reader -nonposter- and best friend) For helping me find some of myself... and for simply just being you. It was after I met you that I realised that people don't need to change themselves to make a God happy. Should he exist, he should love us just how we are. For all our faults and our bad habits.. we are the sum of our parts. Don't change kiddo.

Snakechic - Another longtime true and tried mate who has looked past my shortcomings. The forum was never the same without you... of course! haha... Always two steps ahead of me and always able to see through my crap to what was really going on. You are so insightful and compassionate - a true rock for me in that dark place last year - thank you (cliched I know... that's the mood I'm in).

.

 Dr PopeWazza Revivals Blood - Thanks for laughing at most of my jokes and being a good sport

ok... now i'm starting to get emotional as usual, i'm a month late to reply... today i decided to read your testimony
(howzat for an ego?!) it sounds like you're leaving... nooooo! first the revivalists leave me (in an inverse way) and now the two buddies i have neglected so badly...

You can't get rid of the ghost in the machine. As Superman said to Lois in Superman Returns, "Oh, I'm always around". I'll be online as long as myself and others contribute donations to keep it running. Apparently, that's not too many. Nobody likes to tithe or anything close to it.. ha.

anyway, thanks for your props, one of the nicest things someone has said... you could have just said 'avenger dude, you are full of shit', but you did it in true moth style.

I feel just as guilty about not replying enough to your well thought out posts.

well, if im not mistaken, this is mainly a 'congratulations on your 1000th', so congratulations on your 1000th.

Not sure if I should be rewarded or encouraged, but I appreciate it. Thanks :-) 1000 rambles... I'm on the net a lot for work and pleasure and I find the human interaction exciting, plus I don't have the awkwardness of having to make eye contact or have to think about where to put my hands.

maybe you've noticed my weaning-off... except i didn't really have the courtesy to say bye... i think its because it wasnt a huge conscious decision on my part... and of course i knew that my 'weaning' was always going to be erratic an unpredictable...

It would be pretty sad if we didn't have regular and irregulars alike. Thanks for coming back every now and again. I've always wanted to do a nice big romantic departure message and disappear into the ethernet. Then watch all the posters pleading with me to come back, saying "Where's the Moth, we miss the moth... oh where oh where did he go?" It's a fun fantasy of mine.

(notice how it always becomes about me? well, that's the cool thing about this board. i am happy no-one really ever dissed me for that. these discussions with 'distant family' have been about finding out about rediscovering ourselves, expressing ourselves and redifing our identities IMHO)

It should be all about you. you're bloody important. I know I am... and frak anybody who would dis anyone for sharing about themselves. Yeah, the forum is about helping the poor poor souls who leave the cults, but really.. none of us are counsellors... the best we can do is show some honesty (or versions thereof) and see if people relate to it. I'm not going to pretend to be a nice guy... I do that at work. Here, I pretend to be someone else. The Internet is good for that.

WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU: definitely your openness and your ability to laugh at yourself. good intentions seem to ooze from your directions and no matter how much you try to be a heretic, or christian-basher, you just always seem NICE.

Oh, there's a spare bed for you in my house any day.. heh. I am bloody nice... (but I can be a self-centred male bastard too) and yeah, I think a lot of my anti-christian-ness comes from the disdain I had for pentecostals as a REVIVALIST! I really do. We just hated them.. we hated their music, their wishy washy doctrines and blah blah blah. On the other hand, I have grown into my own healthy dislike for anyone who tries to convert others into a narrow-minded life view such as the 'us verses them' mindset of Christianity.

i am actually semi sympathetic to all evil-doers... criminals including pastors etc. i feel that they are victims of the system too. i guess my anonymity is less important with time, along with the intention to AVENGE my spiritual abuse.

I have to admit I feel very empathetic for others when I see confusion or sorrow. I hate seeing people in pain. I have little sympathy for arrogance of Revivalists though... the arrogance of my online persona is a faux-arrogance, as you've picked up. you know, this forum is actually a very bad bad place for me personally, but I'm sometimes very self-destructive. I've often posted thoughtless and selfish flippant remarks that have hurt close friends deeply.

There's been more than a few times I've had to crawl and beg for forgiveness for the things I've said (often brought on by alcohol or late night sessions after feeding my sleeping pill addiction). Rather then give up posting I hoped to learn to be more thoughtful... I'm a very slow learner.

Get over yourself why don't ya!